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C & T Landscaping
04-30-2010, 02:40 PM
Have you noticed a rise in business since more and more Americans are getting lazier by the year? I mean alot of Americans(including me) order out more than we sit with family over a home cooked dinner. Has their laziness increased your business?

grass pro llc
04-30-2010, 03:18 PM
Have you noticed a rise in business since more and more Americans are getting lazier by the year? I mean alot of Americans(including me) order out more than we sit with family over a home cooked dinner. Has their laziness increased your business?

Apparently you need more work.

Hawg City Lawns
04-30-2010, 03:22 PM
no ive seen a rise of older people who just cant mow anymore

C & T Landscaping
04-30-2010, 03:24 PM
Apparently you need more work.

Well thanks for telling me what I need as I can't tell for myself or something. But no I don't need more work. It was a simple question that I thought would have interesting answers.

bradsd
04-30-2010, 03:44 PM
I don't know any lazy Americans, most of them don't have time to mow because they are working 60 hours a week at their slave jobs. I also enjoy eating out with family it is the family time spent together that matters. Nothing wrong with cooking and eating at home together either. You have a odd view point of the USA citizens, I think we are the most productive and innovative work force in the world!:usflag:

dwost
04-30-2010, 03:55 PM
I think we are the most productive and innovative work force in the world!:usflag:

You should travel abroad, unfortunately this is not even close to the truth.

The mayor
04-30-2010, 04:25 PM
I had a guy quit before he got started. Told him he would start out trimming...like in the interview. Said he had to get something out of his car, He drove off.

rjh4758
04-30-2010, 04:44 PM
America and Americans are changing. Most no longer do the dirty jobs around the home any more- like mow the lawn, clean the gutters, change the oil in the car and so on. I bet most of our fathers did these things when we grew up. But today people will work OT just so they can pay some one else to do the dirty work. But lazy I think not, they just do what they are good at and have someon esle do what they do not want to deal with.
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mowisme
04-30-2010, 04:54 PM
I don't know about Americans in general..that's pretty broad..but I do know this..And I think it is getting worse. My old Job was at a factory- 32+ years. In the 70's we wouldn't have considered taking a break every 1-2 hours of the day. by the time I left- People thought they 'deserved' a break atleast 15 min. every 2 hours..or less. If wasn't in contract- It was taken anyway. Maybe it was because they knew they could get away- But I know the work force and attitude totally changed from early years to the later. Partly thou was the hiring wasn't screen nearly as close..you were getting the 'bad boys' off the street who only knew one way of making money..and it wasn't the old fashion way of working for it. Geno

Richard Martin
04-30-2010, 04:55 PM
No, not really. Here's a partal list of customers and their reasons for hiring me.

Male. About 35/40. Operates a very busy lock and key business. Has several small trailer parks too. I cut one of them. 4 units. 1/2 acre per unit. Mow and Go only.

Male. 30ish. Small computer store owner. Works morning noon and night.

Female. Amost 65. Nagging health issues.

Male, Almost 70. Vietnam vet. Both knees are shot (not by a gun).

Husband/wife. Around 40. Husband works back in MD and wife can hardly walk.

Male. Around 45. Runs a tree service/landscaping. Like's the way I service his property. Been servicing his property since 2007.

It goes on and on just like that. Very rarely do I encounter a person that hires me just because they're lazy.

tjlco
04-30-2010, 06:15 PM
Yes very lazy employee's that I hire....I try to explian to them, this is the way the last guy did it (mexican). American says, oh I ain't no mexican....sighhhhhh I was really gonna try and do the all gringo crew this year but at this rate its not looking good. Been through 3 guys in 2 weeks.....

Hoy landscaping
04-30-2010, 07:21 PM
i havent really seen a rise in lazy calls. its been more of people who hurt themselves and cant mow, old folks, people that are way to busy with work and family, and last i have a few people who are trying to sell there house and want me to redo there landscaping.

Greyst1
04-30-2010, 10:51 PM
Have you noticed a rise in business since more and more Americans are getting lazier by the year? I mean alot of Americans(including me) order out more than we sit with family over a home cooked dinner. Has their laziness increased your business?

I can understand what you are saying, americans are lazy. Why do you think so many mfg. jobs have been shipped over seas..... No innovation, no new products, mgmt want the quick fix to save money so they sell the company out to cheap labor.

topsites
04-30-2010, 11:17 PM
No but perhaps other Lco's sitting around all day has increased mine?

i havent really seen a rise in lazy calls. its been more of people who hurt themselves and cant mow, old folks, people that are way to busy with work and family, and last i have a few people who are trying to sell there house and want me to redo there landscaping.

Same, same, a few with more money than time so to speak, but mostly busy, injured, vacation, or the elderly.
A FEW...
Actually more than a few...
Who hired me to improve their lawn, which that's always nice.

Zak's Pro. Lawn Care
04-30-2010, 11:57 PM
i have picked up a few more lawns of older ppl who cant really mow themselves anymore and this week picked up six lawns of neighbors who i cut for that hadnt even mowed this season yet...lets just say when the yard has grown for the four weeks its tall and i made alot of money because they didnt want to mow themselves

rain man
05-01-2010, 12:58 AM
Old folks, bad health, allergies, single moms, people who work all the time, broken mowers, so on and so forth.

sdk1959
05-01-2010, 01:39 AM
Yes very lazy employee's that I hire....I try to explian to them, this is the way the last guy did it (mexican). American says, oh I ain't no Mexican....sighhhhhh I was really gonna try and do the all gringo crew this year but at this rate its not looking good. Been through 3 guys in 2 weeks.....

I am so sick of hearing how hard Mexicans work compared to Americans with no regard to exchange rates. It is all relative to PAY PAY PAY. Got it-good!

A dollar in Mexico is worth about 13 peso's and will buy AT LEAST 5 times as much in Mexico than in the good ol'e U.S.A.

News flash- this is why Mexicans don't want to become US citizens & live 6-10 in a one bedroom apartment when staying here and send all the money they can spare back to Mexico. Start paying Americans $60.00HR and see how hard they work or start paying Mexicans $2.00HR and see how hard they don't, if at all.:usflag:

Why pay $250,000 for a house here when you can get the same house for $50,000 in Mexico.

GrassIsGreenerLawnCare
05-01-2010, 02:12 AM
Actually i think he has a valid point. just like the other guy said....i have picked up lawns this week that are a foot high and havent been mowed this season yet and people flat out told me that they didnt want to do it themselves. these are people that i consider LAZY!! if u look out your window and see that ur grass is a friggin jungle and dont do anything about it, i would say that is pure sloppiness and laziness. U want lazy though, go to HAITI where they walk out there front door and shiitt in the street and then walk back into there houses.

GrassIsGreenerLawnCare
05-01-2010, 02:17 AM
i agree with the mexican comment. i would work hard too if i was gettin paid that much. And anyone who thinks america isnt lazy is crazy. Unemployment, welfare, and section 8 are at an all time high. a 25 yr old kid got shot the other day in new orleans. it was in the paper. he had 6 boys and 3 girls(children). The paper said he recieved $1500 a month off each kid between food stamps, wlefare, etc etc. they said he made well over $100,000 a year just sittin on his asss. sad thing is that his kids probly didnt see any of the food or money and he was probly wearing gucci and sean jon and blingin gold chains dawggg

dhunterd08
05-01-2010, 02:44 AM
I am so sick of hearing how hard Mexicans work compared to Americans with no regard to exchange rates. It is all relative to PAY PAY PAY. Got it-good!

A dollar in Mexico is worth about 13 peso's and will buy AT LEAST 5 times as much in Mexico than in the good ol'e U.S.A.

News flash- this is why Mexicans don't want to become US citizens & live 6-10 in a one bedroom apartment when staying here and send all the money they can spare back to Mexico. Start paying Americans $60.00HR and see how hard they work or start paying Mexicans $2.00HR and see how hard they don't, if at all.:usflag:

Why pay $250,000 for a house here when you can get the same house for $50,000 in Mexico.

one word remittance........It is not great for the American economy either.....Everyone talks about outsourceing, but lets face it.#1 it least 75% of the time the high paying jobs are not outsourced. What I mean by that is, When an auto company builds a plant in eurasia the engineers,cpas,logistics experts,high level managers, etc are from the nation of the outsourceing country.#2 the people who make the decisions to outsource are in the service sector. This creates consulting jobs, productivity studying jobs, support jobs, etc that are salaried at 50k and up a year. So what do you wnat an $8 an hour factory job that suffers from labor hoarding EVERY SINGLE RECESSION or a salaried accountant position that is one of the last to go?

sdk1959
05-01-2010, 07:55 AM
one word remittance........It is not great for the American economy either.....Everyone talks about outsourceing, but lets face it.#1 it least 75% of the time the high paying jobs are not outsourced. What I mean by that is, When an auto company builds a plant in eurasia the engineers,cpas,logistics experts,high level managers, etc are from the nation of the outsourcing country.#2 the people who make the decisions to outsource are in the service sector. This creates consulting jobs, productivity studying jobs, support jobs, etc that are salaried at 50k and up a year. So what do you want an $8 an hour factory job that suffers from labor hoarding EVERY SINGLE RECESSION or a salaried accountant position that is one of the last to go?

I beg to differ. Twenty years ago or more your statement might have been mostly true. But with today's communications technology a lot more of support & key jobs can also be outsourced very easily. Engineers of all types especially R&D, software writers, help desk, lower and middle management, etc. Also factoring into this is the countries being outsourced to have higher education levels and skills than years ago. Many employees are also fluent in several languages as well. We are quickly losing our ability and talent to make anything here. Not good. If we were where we are at now with manufacturing ability back in the 1940's the Japanese and especially the Germans would easily destroy us in WWII.

Also the average factory job traditionally has not been a low paying job especially if overtime,health benefits and vacation time, are factored in. Sure there are a few smaller factories that don't pay competitive wages but a large scale operation doing that would be ripe for a union to be voted in and would be quickly unionized. Smart companies will pay competitive wages to keep the union out. Average wages for factory workers in America are from $12.00Hr to over $20.00Hr depending on the area, not $8.00 like in a service job such as a fast food restaurant.

When a manufacturing job is outsourced that pays let's say $30000 a year that employee may have been paying $5000 a year in federal income tax. Now he has to take a job that only pays $18000 a year and now only pays $2000 or less a year in federal income tax. That tax revenue is gone, who has to make up the difference? The rest of us in higher taxes. If taxes aren't raised, a soring deficit, which is what we are at now.

Ask yourself, why would supposedly the "richest" nation on earth have to borrow money from China to bail out the banks, another sore subject.


Here's a link to a good article on American manufacturing below.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/democrats-and-the-decline-of-manufacturing-in-america/

hackitdown
05-01-2010, 08:05 AM
In my area the majority of customers are dual income couples. They may be software engineers, or in the pharma field, and they work long days. Loads of income, but no time to putter around the house. A couple with $250K annual income can easily pay for landscapers and housecleaning.

Another big one is the young couple with 2 kids under 10 years old, dad works constantly, mom won't cut the grass. No time on weekends with soccer games and kiddie birthday parties to attend.

The other is single older women. Divorced, widowed, whatever. Just can't do it.

bradsd
05-01-2010, 10:33 PM
You should travel abroad, unfortunately this is not even close to the truth.

Well we didn't become the world leader sitting on our hands. No Mexicans or any other nation of people is gonna out work my familiy I promise you that. I must live in a great place as well because everyone I know is busting their tails to make it in life. :usflag:

sharpcuts
05-01-2010, 10:59 PM
I am so sick of hearing how hard Mexicans work compared to Americans with no regard to exchange rates. It is all relative to PAY PAY PAY. Got it-good!

A dollar in Mexico is worth about 13 peso's and will buy AT LEAST 5 times as much in Mexico than in the good ol'e U.S.A.

News flash- this is why Mexicans don't want to become US citizens & live 6-10 in a one bedroom apartment when staying here and send all the money they can spare back to Mexico. Start paying Americans $60.00HR and see how hard they work or start paying Mexicans $2.00HR and see how hard they don't, if at all.:usflag:

Why pay $250,000 for a house here when you can get the same house for $50,000 in Mexico.

OK, so I agree that all americans are not lazy (take this business for instance. you don't make in this one being lazy.) but there is alot[U] of lazy people around. Maybe a higher ratio than some other countries. But here is the REAL problem. You say that if you were getting $60/hr. you would work harder than if you were getting, say, $10/hr. That's a backwards mentality. I deal with this with my 19 y.o. brother in law. He says: you pay me more, I'll work harder. I say: Bull. I pay you more, I just have less left. Here's the way it works: [U]IF YOU WORK HARDER, I'LL PAY YOU BETTER. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. SHOW ME THE GOODS & I"LL SHOW YOU THE CASH. This is the way it has always worked.:hammerhead:

dhunterd08
05-01-2010, 11:35 PM
OK, so I agree that all americans are not lazy (take this business for instance. you don't make in this one being lazy.) but there is alot[U] of lazy people around. Maybe a higher ratio than some other countries. But here is the REAL problem. You say that if you were getting $60/hr. you would work harder than if you were getting, say, $10/hr. That's a backwards mentality. I deal with this with my 19 y.o. brother in law. He says: you pay me more, I'll work harder. I say: Bull. I pay you more, I just have less left. Here's the way it works: [U]IF YOU WORK HARDER, I'LL PAY YOU BETTER. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. SHOW ME THE GOODS & I"LL SHOW YOU THE CASH. This is the way it has always worked.:hammerhead:

Good point. Effeciency wage lines look good on graphs, but illegals obviously dont give a **** about economic theory hahahaha

dhunterd08
05-02-2010, 12:01 AM
I beg to differ. Twenty years ago or more your statement might have been mostly true. But with today's communications technology a lot more of support & key jobs can also be outsourced very easily. Engineers of all types especially R&D, software writers, help desk, lower and middle management, etc. Also factoring into this is the countries being outsourced to have higher education levels and skills than years ago. Many employees are also fluent in several languages as well. We are quickly losing our ability and talent to make anything here. Not good. If we were where we are at now with manufacturing ability back in the 1940's the Japanese and especially the Germans would easily destroy us in WWII.

Also the average factory job traditionally has not been a low paying job especially if overtime,health benefits and vacation time, are factored in. Sure there are a few smaller factories that don't pay competitive wages but a large scale operation doing that would be ripe for a union to be voted in and would be quickly unionized. Smart companies will pay competitive wages to keep the union out. Average wages for factory workers in America are from $12.00Hr to over $20.00Hr depending on the area, not $8.00 like in a service job such as a fast food restaurant.

When a manufacturing job is outsourced that pays let's say $30000 a year that employee may have been paying $5000 a year in federal income tax. Now he has to take a job that only pays $18000 a year and now only pays $2000 or less a year in federal income tax. That tax revenue is gone, who has to make up the difference? The rest of us in higher taxes. If taxes aren't raised, a soring deficit, which is what we are at now.

Ask yourself, why would supposedly the "richest" nation on earth have to borrow money from China to bail out the banks, another sore subject.


Here's a link to a good article on American manufacturing below.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/democrats-and-the-decline-of-manufacturing-in-america/

i suppose we will have to agree to disagree. Yes, support jobs(low education) to an extent you are correct, and again education levels compared to the past are much better, but still lagging. Our service oriented economy, although it has its disadvantages as does a manufactureing economy, facilitates specialization in nearly every area of business and industry. Specialization=Higher Education. The people who made the decision to outsource that factory are sitting in a corner office and the assistant to the V.P of logistics director's job was created by weighing cost-benefit analysis and outsourceing that factory. 1940s and 2000s can not be compard with regards to war. It makes no difference if any enemy can produce 4x the amount of T-72s as M1 Abrams. The Abrams and a tank crew with Specialized knowledge will win every time. The militiary industrial complex is alive and well. Factory jobs are high paying in the U.S, but not in China, and as soon as the wealth effect pushes consumption down in the U.S and lowers expected future profits those low skilled jobs are the first to go. I am sorry, but the defecit has very little to do with outsourceing, and if China was forced to stop devalueing their currency vs the dollar those bonds would be worth half and we would get much more for less. It happened to Japan.....

sdk1959
05-02-2010, 05:31 AM
OK, so I agree that all Americans are not lazy (take this business for instance. you don't make in this one being lazy.) but there is alot[U] of lazy people around. Maybe a higher ratio than some other countries. But here is the REAL problem. You say that if you were getting $60/hr. you would work harder than if you were getting, say, $10/hr. That's a backwards mentality. I deal with this with my 19 y.o. brother in law. He says: you pay me more, I'll work harder. I say: Bull. I pay you more, I just have less left. Here's the way it works: [U]IF YOU WORK HARDER, I'LL PAY YOU BETTER. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. SHOW ME THE GOODS & I"LL SHOW YOU THE CASH. This is the way it has always worked.:hammerhead:

You missed the point. I'm not talking about comparing Americans to Americans.

The point is this: if you pay a Mexican $12.00HR what the equivalent wage in Mexican peso's and what that money will buy in Mexico is $60.00HR. If you were to pay them $2.00HR what that money will buy in Mexico is equivalent to $12.00HR. If you offered a Mexican $2.00HR he would decline the work-period.
.
Here is a example:

If you hire a Mexican full-time at $12.00Hr and he works for 5 months during the season before going back home he will have earned about $10,000 before taxes. Let's say after taxes he clears about $8000. If he shares a one bedroom apartment with several other Mexicans his total monthly living expenses including food are probably $400.00 a month or less. Let's use $400 a month. He is over here 5 months so his total living expenses while he is here is $2000. $8000-$2000 is $6000, so realistically at the end of his seasonal stay here he can take $6000 back to Mexico which has the buying power of $36,000 here. A $250,000 house here is about $50,000 in Mexico. That is a very very strong incentive to come here to work and work hard. This is also why the illegals will risk death and pay a smuggler up to several thousand dollars to come here to stay and work. See any Canadians jumping the border to work here? Nope.

SouthSide Cutter
05-02-2010, 05:58 AM
No I think he is right examples.
To lazy to walk just park in a handi cap spot.
To lazy to empty your ash tray or put them in a ash tray just throw them down before going in some place or throw them in my yard.
To lazy to pick anything up just leave it in the yard for me to.
To lazy to keep your Big Mac wrapper and Coke cup till you get home and put it in your trash just throw it out the window in my yard.
To lazy to check the air in your tires just drive around with them half flat.
To lazy to clean your windows in your car so you can see out.
To lazy to change your cloths just wear them till they fall off.
You want more, just take a lawn chair to your local WalMart or street corner and you will see for yourself.

TheC-Master
05-02-2010, 06:57 AM
Have you noticed a rise in business since more and more Americans are getting lazier by the year? I mean alot of Americans(including me) order out more than we sit with family over a home cooked dinner. Has their laziness increased your business?

I can make a rant on this one. Yes, Americans are very lazy and it's becoming pathetic. Our nation is in bad shape and we have people lying around here like nothing is going on. I've learned the hard way from trying to give these people opportunities, something I won't bother with anymore. Our nation has an entitlement mentality and it has gotten ridiculous.

BrunoT
05-02-2010, 09:57 AM
Americans have definitely gotten more physically "lazy", they will sometimes work long hours but many definitely do not want to get sweaty or dirty.

Some of this is cultural. We have in recent decades told ourselves that honest hard work that we all used to do in previous generations is bad, the sign you've failed, and more suitable for immigrants. Technology has made the white collar world bigger, and fewer of us do manual work. For many, avoiding the appearance of not being able to afford a lawn service is important in their little world of status seeking.

I mow lawns for some people who obviously have very little spare cash, the house needs work, and the car is a beater. But they will fork over $900 or so for bare bones mowing w/o batting an eye.

Others have some money but no savings. They will, sadly, spend every dime they make (and then some) status-seeking and part of that is fostering the self-image that one is an "aristocrat". That's why you see the proliferation of "near-luxury" brand cars (with huge payments), granite countertops in starter homes, and designer clothing on toddlers. They need to feel rich, even if they aren't, and nothing bursts that bubble for them quicker than mowing the lawn.

Some work too much and just need the weekends and evenings for themselves and their families. With a long commute some people work 12 hours a day 5 days a week. Add in getting kids to school, getting dressed, and other chores and time is at a premium. The last thing they want to do on the one nice weekend day each week is mow the lawn.

My wife was late for work and changed her own flat one morning. The sissified white collar men in her office were amazed because they would have called an auto service and waited for them to do it for them. We are a nation of wimps in many ways. Overspecialization doesn't help either. It causes us to feel less self-reliant (compared to a 1800's farmer who did everything himself). It is actually a very fragile system we have. Just look what happens when the power goes out for a couple of weeks after storms. Men are more feminized. And due to divorce many have never had anyone to teach them how to be a "man". So they cover up their insecurity about yard work by hiring us. While many are great customers, some of the worst jerks around are white collar guys who hire lawn services. They feel shamed at not doing it themselves and so overcompensate by being picky or bossy. If you work for a cool white collar guy odds are he at one point in his life did more manly things.

I have handled properties where newspapers sit and rot at the end of the drive for months ( I avoided picking them up to see how long they'd go after setting them at the door before, where they also rotted for months). There would be half a dozen papers there, rotting. Because apparently it's too much trouble to bend over and pick it up. So yes, some people are amazingly lazy.

But primarily it comes down to culture. If you were taught to value hard work, and praised for it, you will be more likely to do things yourself. If your parents abhored work, your dad couldn't change his own oil, and they fostered a faux affluent persona, then you are more likely to follow in their footsteps. Go to a moderately priced resort hotel and notice they have bellmen? This is to foster the idea that you are an aristocrat. So you pay $5/bag to have a kid roll up a cart with your luggage that you easily could have just carried or rolled yourself. You want to feel like Donald Trump when you're at the resort. Well, some people want to feel like a Jr Trump 365 days a year. And a big part of that is avoiding any manual labor.

Notice the newest thing on SUV's and wagons? The automatic hatchback closer? Is reaching up and closing a door really so hard you are willing to work at your other job for about a week and a half to pay for it?

One of the main causes of crime that many overlook is a hatred of physical labor. Some crooks will go to amazing lengths to avoid it, but because they lack other job skills they resort to crime. Part of the reason for high crime among black Americans may be that their culture sees manual labor as some sort of throwback to slavery, and it is not highly valued for that reason. Yet in other black cultures (carribean) they are renowned as hard workers. It may have something to do with not being minorities in those countries, but in the US they are.

C & T Landscaping
05-02-2010, 12:33 PM
No I think he is right examples.
To lazy to walk just park in a handi cap spot.
To lazy to empty your ash tray or put them in a ash tray just throw them down before going in some place or throw them in my yard.
To lazy to pick anything up just leave it in the yard for me to.
To lazy to keep your Big Mac wrapper and Coke cup till you get home and put it in your trash just throw it out the window in my yard.
To lazy to check the air in your tires just drive around with them half flat.
To lazy to clean your windows in your car so you can see out.
To lazy to change your cloths just wear them till they fall off.
You want more, just take a lawn chair to your local WalMart or street corner and you will see for yourself.


Thank You, for acutally knowing what I mean. There was another guy on the first page that understood...I don't know how we got started to talk about Mexicans and their wages.

freshprince94
05-02-2010, 03:49 PM
I have noticed this, some customers don't have time or are too old, but some are just lazy. The thing that bugs me is when I see a house with teenage kids sitting inside watching TV or playing video games when they should be doing all the work around the house.

milkie62
05-02-2010, 10:50 PM
some of the problems now are:My little car for back and forth to work is a pain to get at the oil filter without it being on a lift.So I just take it to the dealer on a $19.99 oil change special and read the Sat morning paper and drink their coffee.Makes be get up early and get moving.

sdk1959
05-02-2010, 11:17 PM
i suppose we will have to agree to disagree. Yes, support jobs(low education) to an extent you are correct, and again education levels compared to the past are much better, but still lagging. Our service oriented economy, although it has its disadvantages as does a manufacturing economy, facilitates specialization in nearly every area of business and industry. Specialization=Higher Education. The people who made the decision to outsource that factory are sitting in a corner office and the assistant to the V.P of logistics director's job was created by weighing cost-benefit analysis and outsourcing that factory. 1940s and 2000s can not be compared with regards to war. It makes no difference if any enemy can produce 4x the amount of T-72s as M1 Abrams. The Abrams and a tank crew with Specialized knowledge will win every time. The military industrial complex is alive and well. Factory jobs are high paying in the U.S, but not in China, and as soon as the wealth effect pushes consumption down in the U.S and lowers expected future profits those low skilled jobs are the first to go. I am sorry, but the deficit has very little to do with outsourcing, and if China was forced to stop devaluing their currency vs the dollar those bonds would be worth half and we would get much more for less. It happened to Japan.....

With the WWII reference I was stating from a production standpoint not a technology standpoint. If we had started outsourcing say in the 1930's like we started doing in the 1980's with our anemic production ability by the start of the war Japan and Germany would have easily overrun us and won the war. Production ability wins wars not outsourcing. For the tanks reference you stated above it would be T-72s vs Shermans not the M1 Abrams tanks of today.

If you look at many other countries they protect jobs from outsourcing and limit imports. England and the U.S. don't. The only winners from outsourcing are the companies that profit by it. Consumers don't win. Example: If a company saves $5.00 in labor making something in China they might pass .50 of that savings to the consumer, meanwhile they pocket the other $4.50, pay no tax on it and 10000 Americans lose their jobs.

Outsourcing has everything to do with the deficit. It's not just the taxes the workers pay but the outsourcing company, the company vendors, their employees and right on down the line.

Everyone focuses on spending- not the tax revenue lost to outsourcing jobs among other things which is the real underlying cause of our current deficit situation. Cutting spending barely helps, money saved on one program is used elsewhere.

Americans that get their lawn cut for the most part are not lazy, many have stressful jobs, work long hours and don't have the time nor energy to cut their lawns.

dhunterd08
05-03-2010, 03:31 AM
With the WWII reference I was stating from a production standpoint not a technology standpoint. If we had started outsourcing say in the 1930's like we started doing in the 1980's with our anemic production ability by the start of the war Japan and Germany would have easily overrun us and won the war. Production ability wins wars not outsourcing. For the tanks reference you stated above it would be T-72s vs Shermans not the M1 Abrams tanks of today.

If you look at many other countries they protect jobs from outsourcing and limit imports. England and the U.S. don't. The only winners from outsourcing are the companies that profit by it. Consumers don't win. Example: If a company saves $5.00 in labor making something in China they might pass .50 of that savings to the consumer, meanwhile they pocket the other $4.50, pay no tax on it and 10000 Americans lose their jobs.

Outsourcing has everything to do with the deficit. It's not just the taxes the workers pay but the outsourcing company, the company vendors, their employees and right on down the line.

Everyone focuses on spending- not the tax revenue lost to outsourcing jobs among other things which is the real underlying cause of our current deficit situation. Cutting spending barely helps, money saved on one program is used elsewhere.

Americans that get their lawn cut for the most part are not lazy, many have stressful jobs, work long hours and don't have the time nor energy to cut their lawns.

A "production standpoint" comarison on the ability to wage war in 2010 and 1941 is useless(as stated earlier). Our production capabilities in the 1930s were nothing special on the defense side. Starting with Warren G. Harding's "return to normalcy" campaighn militiary spending decreased. Wilson was the last of the progressives, and militiary expansion after World War I was not popular until war seemed impossible to avoid. Did productivity in the private sector of manufacturing increase during the 1920s? yes. Production ability is only a small factor in warfare today, and high tech weapons are researched, tested, and produced here anyway. No outsourceing does not win wars. It plays only a small factor. Actually, the T-72 is a MASS PRODUCED russian tank. In small numbers, the abrams high tech tank made the iraqi army look like CIA trained cuban refugees in the persian gulf war, proveing once again production ability in modern warfare is a limited factor relative to World War II.

Import quotas??? I seem to recall that not working out too well in the past. The only ones who profit are companies that outsource??? so we dont benefit from companies who are based in the U.S, pay huge tax bills, create high skilled high pay jobs, and pass on lower prices...... Assuming that pass to "pocket" ratio is accurate, Should we limit the companies profit? Who decides whos profit gets limited? Maybe our profits should be limited too? Yea, everyone should have the same profits(or income):nono:. I am sure, if everyone has the same standard of living, they will work harder, take risks, invest, and advance society in order to give the benefits of their hard work,risk, and ingenuity to everyone else. I mean, man is inherintly good right?

The only time tax revenues swing in one direction or the other is during the business cycle, via automatic stabilizers, or dramatically altered tax legislation(and that is stretching it). If you can find any data that says outsourceing=lost tax revenues that play even a noticeable role in the defecit, I would love to see it. That is equivalent to corelateing Gen Mills' revenue to the Corn Flakes i bought yesterday. I completely agree on spending. Discretionary spending is relatively irrelevant in our current political system.

Agreed, American's concentrate on education and specialization. I just took exams you are making me think way too hard.......

Alan0354
05-03-2010, 12:27 PM
I don't know any lazy Americans, most of them don't have time to mow because they are working 60 hours a week at their slave jobs. I also enjoy eating out with family it is the family time spent together that matters. Nothing wrong with cooking and eating at home together either. You have a odd view point of the USA citizens, I think we are the most productive and innovative work force in the world!:usflag:

Yes, people are working longer hours in order to keep their job. Other than government jobs, everyone has to work extra.

Most innovative, yes. Most productive, not sure about that.

It is more productive to earn money on your specialty and pay others to for their specialty to do work you are not. People don't have time to tinkering with things anymore. I used to repair my own cars, but thinking back, it is not exactly cost effective. You have to take the time to learn, buying special tools just to use it one time. Now with all the electronics, you can't even fix the car. Used to fix my own tv, everything is laid out clearly inside. Try one now!! It is all custom electronics, you can't even fix it with schematics.

Alan0354
05-03-2010, 12:38 PM
I can understand what you are saying, americans are lazy. Why do you think so many mfg. jobs have been shipped over seas..... No innovation, no new products, mgmt want the quick fix to save money so they sell the company out to cheap labor.

Wrong, we have all the creativities. It is just the business model that it is cheaper to manufacture in the third world country. You have cheap labor, non of the regulation, avoid unions. Before, the rest of the world were so far behind, now they recovered. We cannot compete with all the high labor cost, liberal regulations and unions. So many cases we design a product and immediately we went to foreign contries to set up manufacturing and train those people to product the product.

Now we are paying the price, teaching the other countries all the knowledge and now they really don't need us anymore.

Alan0354
05-03-2010, 12:44 PM
I am so sick of hearing how hard Mexicans work compared to Americans with no regard to exchange rates. It is all relative to PAY PAY PAY. Got it-good!

A dollar in Mexico is worth about 13 peso's and will buy AT LEAST 5 times as much in Mexico than in the good ol'e U.S.A.

News flash- this is why Mexicans don't want to become US citizens & live 6-10 in a one bedroom apartment when staying here and send all the money they can spare back to Mexico. Start paying Americans $60.00HR and see how hard they work or start paying Mexicans $2.00HR and see how hard they don't, if at all.:usflag:

Why pay $250,000 for a house here when you can get the same house for $50,000 in Mexico.

They do want to stay here. After they become legal, they get on welfare. Look at the welfare demographics, they are the biggest burden on the system. They get into politics and fundamentally change our country. Don't believe me, just look at what's going on after AZ pass the law.....The RIGHTs of ILLEGALs.

sdk1959
05-03-2010, 08:26 PM
They do want to stay here. After they become legal, they get on welfare. Look at the welfare demographics, they are the biggest burden on the system. They get into politics and fundamentally change our country. Don't believe me, just look at what's going on after AZ pass the law.....The RIGHTs of Illegals.

Your right, some Mexicans do want to stay here, collect welfare & send money home to their families where it will buy 5-6 times as much in Mexico vs U.S.

sdk1959
05-03-2010, 09:42 PM
A "production standpoint" comarison on the ability to wage war in 2010 and 1941 is useless(as stated earlier). Our production capabilities in the 1930s were nothing special on the defense side. Starting with Warren G. Harding's "return to normalcy" campaighn militiary spending decreased. Wilson was the last of the progressives, and militiary expansion after World War I was not popular until war seemed impossible to avoid. Did productivity in the private sector of manufacturing increase during the 1920s? yes. Production ability is only a small factor in warfare today, and high tech weapons are researched, tested, and produced here anyway. No outsourceing does not win wars. It plays only a small factor. Actually, the T-72 is a MASS PRODUCED russian tank. In small numbers, the abrams high tech tank made the iraqi army look like CIA trained cuban refugees in the persian gulf war, proveing once again production ability in modern warfare is a limited factor relative to World War II.

Import quotas??? I seem to recall that not working out too well in the past. The only ones who profit are companies that outsource??? so we dont benefit from companies who are based in the U.S, pay huge tax bills, create high skilled high pay jobs, and pass on lower prices...... Assuming that pass to "pocket" ratio is accurate, Should we limit the companies profit? Who decides whos profit gets limited? Maybe our profits should be limited too? Yea, everyone should have the same profits(or income):nono:. I am sure, if everyone has the same standard of living, they will work harder, take risks, invest, and advance society in order to give the benefits of their hard work,risk, and ingenuity to everyone else. I mean, man is inherintly good right?

The only time tax revenues swing in one direction or the other is during the business cycle, via automatic stabilizers, or dramatically altered tax legislation(and that is stretching it). If you can find any data that says outsourceing=lost tax revenues that play even a noticeable role in the defecit, I would love to see it. That is equivalent to corelateing Gen Mills' revenue to the Corn Flakes i bought yesterday. I completely agree on spending. Discretionary spending is relatively irrelevant in our current political system.

Agreed, American's concentrate on education and specialization. I just took exams you are making me think way too hard.......

Read this article on outsourcing in the link below from an objective viewpoint and you will understand outsourcing affects almost all jobs and is destroying this economy.

I'm sure you heard the term stated several times in the news during this recession that this is a "jobless recovery".

Hmm.... with all the job outsourcing corporation profits are way up, CEO's are getting huge bonuses yet unemployment is still at 10%, more if you count the underemployed and those who exhausted their unemployment benefits. Tax roles are decreasing, the deficit is going up, schools are cutting teaching staff, outsourcing- it's all good right?:hammerhead:

http://ux.brookdalecc.edu/fac/history/Tangents/ARTICLESFORTANGENTS/Outsourcing.htm

dhunterd08
05-04-2010, 12:57 AM
Read this article on outsourcing in the link below from an objective viewpoint and you will understand outsourcing affects almost all jobs and is destroying this economy.

I'm sure you heard the term stated several times in the news during this recession that this is a "jobless recovery".

Hmm.... with all the job outsourcing corporation profits are way up, CEO's are getting huge bonuses yet unemployment is still at 10%, more if you count the underemployed and those who exhausted their unemployment benefits. Tax roles are decreasing, the deficit is going up, schools are cutting teaching staff, outsourcing- it's all good right?:hammerhead:

http://ux.brookdalecc.edu/fac/history/Tangents/ARTICLESFORTANGENTS/Outsourcing.htm


The fact is ,for what ever reason, Matthew Smith did not make himself valuable enough to be hired by a company. So we should penalize more qualified candidates, because Mr. Smith is an American and "needs" a job? Unfortunately, I am a firm believer in social darwinism. The constitution gaurantees equality of opportunity, nothing more. Mr. Smith can choose to make himself competitive or not, or can he?. The biggest thing i got from that article is that politicians cant interpret the laffer curve. Maybe, if the federal government would get its hands out of the pockets and of business with taxes,permits,regulations,mandates, and now gauranteed healthcare costs and stop forceing distorted market signals, Mr. Smith's human capital wouldn't be diluted by mandated costs the federal government forces on him. Let's say we do increase taxes on outsourceing companies, and in response they bring jobs here. So sales remain constant and liabilities increase as a result of increased direct labor costs. In response, they have two choices. They can Dilute quality now by decreasing expenses in the form of customer service,direct materials quality, availability of product, etc or they can decrease future quality/growth by cutting R&D. Either way, Another foreighn entity can produce the same product and have funds available for R&D and current quality, due to lower labor costs and tax rates. The original company becomes uncompetitive and files bankruptcy. Everyone is fired and we pay for the cleanup. Which option do you like better? The Invisible hand is what has allowed this country to become great. Profit motive is the only economic principle that allways holds true. Every recovery is a "jobless recovery", because unemployment is a lagging indicator. Hireing only occurs when expected FUTURE profits increase. Look at the unemployment rate in every recession since WWII. Start at the trough and see how long it took after GDP began increasing for the unemployment rate to get below the trough rate. Numerically the tax roles decrease may be true, IDK, but as far as the amount it contributes to the defecit is insignificant and probably cant even be measured. Defecits and state cuts are simply caused by the economic situation. It happens every single recession. If politicians would follow a cyclically balanced budget defecits would not be an issue. Fact is, they dont have the political will to raise taxes and slow down the increase in gov spending when the economy is prosperous.

Envy Lawn Service
05-04-2010, 04:56 AM
Yes, countrymen are lazy... and no you won't get any exceptional work ethic performance out of them at poverty level wages.

That song is the same, no matter what part of the world you are in.

The smarter and wiser people are, the less they are willing to kill themselves for barely enough wages to get by. Instead, they are wise enough to gauge their performance among the majority of their peers and adjust their work output closer to the level the employer is paying for.

Fill a position in the US for around $10-12 an hour and you just hired yourself a lazy mutherf....r.

--------------------------

As far as the economy and so forth... we are all just worker bee pee-ons...
A group that is by in large, politically STUPID enough to elect and pay officials to sell us all out for their own benefit.... because it benefits the extremely wealthy who stand to gain enough from policy to make it very financially worthwhile to our politicians to make it happen for them.

Greed... and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Sad part is that this time I think it will prove in the future that it's already gone way too far. So many people are already out of work or working for less (not because they are lazy) that we are starting to have a big tax collection problem as a result of this latest ongoing wealth shift. The system is broken and going bankrupt now, and trying to borrow it's way out of trouble..... Not good.

sdk1959
05-05-2010, 12:06 AM
dhunterd08

You have dodged & glossed over every statement made about outsourcing in these posts and in the article link.

Example: Statements from the article and your reply:

I am fifty-seven years old and unemployed since November 2002. I am an ex-banker with thirty-eight years in that field. My bank outsourced many jobs overseas. I have not been able to even find a temp job since the market is so bad. My best friend [who is also a banker] will lose her job in June. She has to train her Indian replacement, and a few in her department must go to India to train their replacements in order to get their severance pay. What is this country coming to?”

Your Reply:The fact is ,for what ever reason, Matthew Smith did not make himself valuable enough to be hired by a company.

My Reply: Well he made himself valuable enough have worked 38 years in the banking field.



Your Statement:So we should penalize more qualified candidates, because Mr. Smith is an American and "needs" a job?

My reply: Wasn't his position already filled by him, he's already qualified and doing that job? There was no "new" position that had to be filled. So isn't he a qualified American employee being penalized by being fired and replaced by a unknown and lesser qualified foreign employee?

Your Statement: Mr. Smith can choose to make himself competitive or not, or can he?

My Reply: How, by taking a 75% pay cut?

Your Statement: Unfortunately, I am a firm believer in social Darwinism. The constitution guarantee's equality of opportunity, nothing more.

My reply: "Unfortunately" is the key word.- it is unfortunate you believe in social Darwinism. Mr Smith already achieved his opportunity and it was taken from him & given away to a foreigner. I don't recall it saying anywhere in the constitution that equal opportunity is to be extended to foreigners. It's a safe bet the Founding Fathers meant equal opportunity for American citizens.

It all boils down to corporations exploiting cheap foreign labor, in turn eliminating the middle class, tax avoidance and simple greed at the expense of American Citizens and taxpayers.

And now ALL of of us, except for the big corporations and their stockholders are paying the price.