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View Full Version : Toro Super Recycler vs. Toro Commerical 21


mastruck04
05-15-2010, 07:34 PM
What would you do if you were in my shoes? I just started and have only 3 small lawns to cut weekly. My POS Yard Machine is dead and I can't decide between the SR and the commercial. I know the differences between the two, but am having problems justifying $1200 vs $500 for the SR. Not to mention the warranties, 1 yr vs 5 yr. Do you think I could get 3 yrs or more from the SR and then hopefully upgrade to something bigger?

I want to grow my business, but want to grow slow enough until I can justify a nice WB.

What would you do?

sjessen
05-15-2010, 08:10 PM
I use the Toro Super Recycler. Have had it for 4-5 years and have had minimal problems. For what you have right now it will be just fine. If you were cutting 15-20 per week the commercial unit would be better.

joed
05-15-2010, 08:10 PM
What would you do if you were in my shoes? I just started and have only 3 small lawns to cut weekly. My POS Yard Machine is dead and I can't decide between the SR and the commercial. I know the differences between the two, but am having problems justifying $1200 vs $500 for the SR. Not to mention the warranties, 1 yr vs 5 yr. Do you think I could get 3 yrs or more from the SR and then hopefully upgrade to something bigger?

I want to grow my business, but want to grow slow enough until I can justify a nice WB.

What would you do?

If you want to only do 3-5 lots per week, you'll be alright with the super recycler. It's a good mower and mulches very well. The only thing I do not like is the personal pace transmission. When I had a toro pt21 with the same tranny, the tranny always seemed to get stuck and had no strength when going up hills or bagging. The commercial 21" toro is a marvelous machine. That's the one with the 3 speed tranny and either the Kawasaki or Honda engines on it. One of the best units ever made. You won't go wrong with either unit. Just ask yourself. Will I make enough money this year to justify the cost of the commercial unit? If the answer is yes, then go for it. If it's no, then use the super recyler for now and when your business grows, you can always upgrade. Another alternative may be to check dealers or craigs list for a used toro commercial unit. You will find ones in good shape at times. Good luck.

Alan0354
05-15-2010, 08:16 PM
I just went and looked at the Toro Commercial with Kawi engine for $895. Looks very good to me. It is not $1100. I am eyeing on this one since the Ariens LM21SW is not available in Kalifornia:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:!!!!

The Toro commercial is the lightest commercial mower period. To me that is really important for daily use. I was told it's a belt drive which is cheaper to maintain. ( not very knowledgable in mower, just what the salesman told me).

Differential
05-15-2010, 08:44 PM
Snapper makes a hi-vac that's $599. It's considered a residential model, but it's really heavy duty. It has solid steel axles, heavy deck, the self propel is unstoppable (belt driven), and a really big bag. You can set it up within seconds to discharge or bag. If you want to mulch, you can put a mulch blade on it. I run one and it's been really good.

I'm in your shoes, I've been in business for one month, and had a hard time justifying the cost of a commercial, especially if you buy or want new. I looked at some used ones and they were really beat up.

I've been very pleased with the snapper and recommend it.


http://www.wisesales.com/snapper_p217020b.html

mastruck04
05-15-2010, 10:42 PM
I just went and looked at the Toro Commercial with Kawi engine for $895. Looks very good to me. It is not $1100. I am eyeing on this one since the Ariens LM21SW is not available in Kalifornia:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:!!!!

The Toro commercial is the lightest commercial mower period. To me that is really important for daily use. I was told it's a belt drive which is cheaper to maintain. ( not very knowledgable in mower, just what the salesman told me).

Where did you find it for $895? Please share.

Merkava_4
05-15-2010, 11:26 PM
The commercial 21" toro is a marvelous machine.

Which one? They make several different models of commercial 21" mowers.

Here's the Hi-Vac model for example:

http://www.toro.com/intl/us_es/professional/lce/wpm/hi%20vac/22189.html

joed
05-15-2010, 11:33 PM
Which one? They make several different models of commercial 21" mowers.

Here's the Hi-Vac model for example:

http://www.toro.com/intl/us_es/professional/lce/wpm/hi%20vac/22189.html

Hi-vac model is good for bagging but not mulching. Any of the other proline models with the 3 speed tranny are the ones to get.

Lawnut101
05-15-2010, 11:39 PM
Well, if you only have 3 accounts it would be hard to justify spending $1200 on a mower, especially a push mower. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't even spend $500 on one for that amount of work. Go get a few from a garage sale for like $30 each, fix them up and use them until you can start to make money and can afford a nice one. It just doesn't make sense to buy something that expensive, when you aren't going to use it more than 10 hours a week.

Alan0354
05-16-2010, 01:29 AM
Where did you find it for $895? Please share.

In the dealer today, I was just shopping for the pole saw attachment and I happened to look at that for future replacement of my dumpy mower. It is a personal paste, with thick cast aluminum deck. I am no expert on mower......yet!!! I know it is the lowest model which is under 100 lbs. It is with the Kawi FJ180 with no filter. So it is not exactly the heavy duty professional model.

Merkava_4
05-16-2010, 04:48 AM
Snapper makes a hi-vac that's $599. It's considered a residential model, but it's really heavy duty.

That's a helluva good price for a Hi-Vac Snapper. I didn't know they could be had for that cheap.

Alan0354
05-16-2010, 05:00 AM
That's a helluva good price for a Hi-Vac Snapper. I didn't know they could be had for that cheap.

I looked at the link, looks like it is the cheap L head B&S Quantum series engine. Those are the ones on the cheapy Craftsman and troybilt. Not 100% sure, just by looking at the picture and only B&S use the 6.75, 6.5 etc names.

For the kind of money, I would expect Honda GCV190 or Kohler XT-7 engine both of which have cast iron lining.

joed
05-16-2010, 09:09 AM
In the dealer today, I was just shopping for the pole saw attachment and I happened to look at that for future replacement of my dumpy mower. It is a personal paste, with thick cast aluminum deck. I am no expert on mower......yet!!! I know it is the lowest model which is under 100 lbs. It is with the Kawi FJ180 with no filter. So it is not exactly the heavy duty professional model.

If this unit has a personal pace transmission and a 6 hp Kawasaki engine, it sounds to me like it's the pt21 toro. This unit was brought out in 2007, continued into 2008, and was discontinued last year. I had one of those units and it's a commercial unit in name only. Cut was decent, but that personal pace tranny was lousy, especially when the bag got filled. It also had an annoying habit of getting stuck when you backed up and then went forward.

Alan0354
05-16-2010, 02:33 PM
If this unit has a personal pace transmission and a 6 hp Kawasaki engine, it sounds to me like it's the pt21 toro. This unit was brought out in 2007, continued into 2008, and was discontinued last year. I had one of those units and it's a commercial unit in name only. Cut was decent, but that personal pace tranny was lousy, especially when the bag got filled. It also had an annoying habit of getting stuck when you backed up and then went forward.

You could be right, I did not do much research on this.

I know Toro has three models, Commercial is the lowest model. They then have the bagging one and the Heavy Duty one. I am interested in the Commercial because it is lower priced, lighter than all the true commercial mower.

mastruck04
05-16-2010, 05:03 PM
I was referring to the heavy duty with either the honda or kawasaki engine (22197)

Alan0354
05-16-2010, 05:14 PM
The one I was looking at must be the old Commercial 21. I am looking at the 2009 catalog. the normal Commercial only have the Honda GSV190, kind of fake commercial engine with iron lining but I think one bearing.

The one I was looking at has Kawasaki FJ180, no filter. It has label Commercial on it.

Next one up is the Hi-Vac Bagger 22189. Then the top of the line Heavy-Duty 22195 and 22196 with either Kawi or Honda GXV160.

Why do people want to pay $300 extra for a smaller Honda GXV160? S&M?:laugh::laugh:

clean_cut
05-16-2010, 05:36 PM
Why not look for a used toro or honda on www.craigslist.org There're all over the place where I live. I wouldn't spend 1200 on a push mower for 3 lawns, if anything I would buy a used walk behind. I would seriously consider buying used though.

mastruck04
05-16-2010, 05:50 PM
Here in St. Louis, I can't find anything that is decent used. Mostly, it is lawn tractors or crappy MTD push mowers....basically what I have now.

Only real commercial quality is 52 or bigger walk behinds or ZTR.....a little big for me at this point and way out of the budget

Anyone around or near St. Louis have anything they are looking to sell let me know

DT Lawn Care
05-16-2010, 07:17 PM
Buying new I would go with the commercial because I hate the personal pace unless I'm mowing on a hill. I buy my equipment used though and would buy an older Toro Super Recycler BBC 3 speed with a Briggs or Suzuki OHV engine. Back then the 3 speed transmissions were the same in the Consumer and Commercial Toros.

titus5
05-16-2010, 08:20 PM
Sounds to me like you are leaning towards buying new...it's always easy to talk yourself into going one way or another. Anyway, I have to agree with the Craigslist idea. A while back I picked up an old Snapper with a Honda GXV160 bolted to it...70 bucks and it works like a champ. I just did a quick search of St. Louis CL for you and came up with some decent possibilities for an interim mower.

Here's a Deere for $350:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1744129254.html

Here's a Troy-Bilt for $175:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1744164357.html

A Black Max with Honda GCV for $225:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1744098346.html

Here's a Toro for $200:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1743526999.html

An old Snapper Hi-Vac (like mine) for only $50:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1739855087.html

Anyway...tons of mowers in the greater St. Louis area if you decide to go that route. There's some great deals out there. Good luck!

yardguy28
05-16-2010, 08:42 PM
i always prefer commercial equipment over home owner equipment when doing this job. however most commercial 21 inchers are $1200 to $1500 as you already know. i did however pick up a 2005 new in box toro commercial 21 for $500 from my dealer.

normally in your situation or even mine i would stick with a residential model because i don't use them that much. i have 2 yards i cut with the 21 and some that have a small section i can't reach with my 52" but are to big to string trim that area.

i think you'd be better off getting the commercial since your just starting off and don't have a walkbehind but it all depends on what types of yards your planning on picking up. if your going to stick to smaller postage stamp lawns you'll use the hell out of that 21 but if your going to pick up larger propertys where i walkbehind and won't use the 21 all that much you might wanna consider the TR........

DT Lawn Care
05-16-2010, 09:57 PM
Sounds to me like you are leaning towards buying new...it's always easy to talk yourself into going one way or another. Anyway, I have to agree with the Craigslist idea. A while back I picked up an old Snapper with a Honda GXV160 bolted to it...70 bucks and it works like a champ. I just did a quick search of St. Louis CL for you and came up with some decent possibilities for an interim mower.

Here's a Deere for $350:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1744129254.html

Here's a Troy-Bilt for $175:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1744164357.html

A Black Max with Honda GCV for $225:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1744098346.html

Here's a Toro for $200:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1743526999.html

An old Snapper Hi-Vac (like mine) for only $50:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1739855087.html

Anyway...tons of mowers in the greater St. Louis area if you decide to go that route. There's some great deals out there. Good luck!

That stuff is all residential which doesn't last that long.

i always prefer commercial equipment over home owner equipment when doing this job. however most commercial 21 inchers are $1200 to $1500 as you already know. i did however pick up a 2005 new in box toro commercial 21 for $500 from my dealer.

normally in your situation or even mine i would stick with a residential model because i don't use them that much. i have 2 yards i cut with the 21 and some that have a small section i can't reach with my 52" but are to big to string trim that area.

i think you'd be better off getting the commercial since your just starting off and don't have a walkbehind but it all depends on what types of yards your planning on picking up. if your going to stick to smaller postage stamp lawns you'll use the hell out of that 21 but if your going to pick up larger propertys where i walkbehind and won't use the 21 all that much you might wanna consider the TR........

I prefer commercial too for lawn equipment, however the CONSUMER not residential Toro 21" prolines seem to work fine.

stephen424
05-16-2010, 10:12 PM
my advice...buy a toro personal pace and be done with it.
you can get a pull start from home depot for $349. find a 10% off coupon somewhere and save about $40 dollars.
the toro personal pace come with a 3 yr warranty so you covered for a while.

or if you can find one on craigslist, that would be sweet also.

i bought a Toro personal pace off of craigslist 7 months ago for $150. I only needed one for small areas my Zs wont reach...but didnt see myself spending $1000 for a mower I'd only use 15 minutes a week

DT Lawn Care
05-16-2010, 10:31 PM
my advice...buy a toro personal pace and be done with it.
you can get a pull start from home depot for $349. find a 10% off coupon somewhere and save about $40 dollars.
the toro personal pace come with a 3 yr warranty so you covered for a while.

or if you can find one on craigslist, that would be sweet also.

i bought a Toro personal pace off of craigslist 7 months ago for $150. I only needed one for small areas my Zs wont reach...but didnt see myself spending $1000 for a mower I'd only use 15 minutes a week

Do not buy from Home Repo they do not honor their warranties and that's a 3 year residential warranty also so if you told them you were using it commercially nobody would cover you. It's box store junk anyway if you guys want to post this stuff don't post on the commercial forum go to the homeowner one.

stephen424
05-16-2010, 10:44 PM
Do not buy from Home Repo they do not honor their warranties and that's a 3 year residential warranty also so if you told them you were using it commercially nobody would cover you. It's box store junk anyway if you guys want to post this stuff don't post on the commercial forum go to the homeowner one.

wth are you talking about?
home depot doesn't honor the warranty!?!?!
you can take the mower to any authorized toro dealer, show your proof of purchase and they will fix the mower under the warranty.

and yes, it's a 3 year consumer warranty. but as long as he registers the unit as consumer, he won't have any problems. hell, my dealer registers all of my equipment as "consumer" so i can get more life out of the warranty.

box store junk? home depot sells the same model number that your local toro dealer sells. only thing...home depot won't gas the unit up and attach the handles (big deal)

DT Lawn Care
05-16-2010, 10:58 PM
wth are you talking about?
home depot doesn't honor the warranty!?!?!
you can take the mower to any authorized toro dealer, show your proof of purchase and they will fix the mower under the warranty.

and yes, it's a 3 year consumer warranty. but as long as he registers the unit as consumer, he won't have any problems. hell, my dealer registers all of my equipment as "consumer" so i can get more life out of the warranty.

box store junk? home depot sells the same model number that your local toro dealer sells. only thing...home depot won't gas the unit up and attach the handles (big deal)

Yeah except those Toros are junk. Consumer and residential are different. The dark black Toros are consumer and the bright red ones are residential. Home Repo only sells residential. I bought two Honda's about five years ago and the trannys went out right away and they wouldn't return them or get parts even though they had broken within the two year warranty. I went into that pos companie's store 6 times, each time they said they would call back and never did.

Alan0354
05-16-2010, 10:59 PM
Do not buy from Home Repo they do not honor their warranties and that's a 3 year residential warranty also so if you told them you were using it commercially nobody would cover you. It's box store junk anyway if you guys want to post this stuff don't post on the commercial forum go to the homeowner one.

I totally disagree that we should not buy from HD. What make you think the dealer would not give you the run around and give you all the lame excuses why you are not cover. I have bad experience and a lot of people posted here complained about it too.

Yes HD don't have real commercial mower, but they are a lot more honest, you get 30 days return, and after that you are on your own. I would much rather dealing with them than the dealer if I am buying a home owner mower. At least I know exactly what I am getting into. Not like you think you buy from the dealer thinking they are on your side just to find out when you have problem, you might get screwed. For a $400 mower, if you get screw, it is going to be hundreds of dollars mistake, you can buy another one!!!

If you go cheap, take your chance, if you get a year or two out of a homeowner mower, you are ahead of the game. Think dispossable. Every service is going to be over a hundred dollars!!!! There are a lot of truth about getting cheap stuff and use it as dispossible.

DT Lawn Care
05-16-2010, 11:38 PM
I totally disagree that we should not buy from HD. What make you think the dealer would not give you the run around and give you all the lame excuses why you are not cover. I have bad experience and a lot of people posted here complained about it too.

Yes HD don't have real commercial mower, but they are a lot more honest, you get 30 days return, and after that you are on your own. I would much rather dealing with them than the dealer if I am buying a home owner mower. At least I know exactly what I am getting into. Not like you think you buy from the dealer thinking they are on your side just to find out when you have problem, you might get screwed. For a $400 mower, if you get screw, it is going to be hundreds of dollars mistake, you can buy another one!!!

If you go cheap, take your chance, if you get a year or two out of a homeowner mower, you are ahead of the game. Think dispossable. Every service is going to be over a hundred dollars!!!! There are a lot of truth about getting cheap stuff and use it as dispossible.

Sarah, I had a bad experience with Home Depot let alone many bad experiences with them. If you like them and you've had good experiences there that's just fine. I was only offering advice from what happened to me so other people wouldn't have to go through it. Yes you can never trust any store or dealer to honor their warranties but I know that back then HD did not. Personally I wouldn't buy from either dealers or box stores because I know these mowers really well and I know how to fix them myself.

ixlr8
05-17-2010, 10:01 AM
I bought the HD Toro PP special, 22" steel deck $350, lasted 3 weeks and the drive gear broke. Two authorized Toro repair shop/dealers basically told me they won't touch the HD junk. I called Toro about their attitude, one of them is no longer a Toro authorized shop. A Third dealer, a master Toro dealer, fixed it up under warrenty no problem. I lost that mower in a divorce, I then bought the Toro PP 21" alum deck from a Toro dealer, $450, no issues in 3 years. Although I do wish it cut better in discharge mode.. seems to work well in mulch mode. The better unit does have a longer warrenty and the drive gears are enclosed and greaseable. No so on the cheaper one, which is it's weakest link, which is what happened to my first one. Some junk got in the gear, jambed it and it broke. Since 90% of my present PP useage is side discharge... I am looking for a better cutting 'trim' mower.
To OP.. I would get the better Toro PP if you are only doing 3-6 small lawns a week and be prepared to replace it after 2 years max, hopefully by then your business will have grown enough to afford a commercial grade. I would not even consider the cheaper HD PP for homeowner use.

mastruck04
05-17-2010, 11:20 AM
I bought the HD Toro PP special, 22" steel deck $350, lasted 3 weeks and the drive gear broke. Two authorized Toro repair shop/dealers basically told me they won't touch the HD junk. I called Toro about their attitude, one of them is no longer a Toro authorized shop. A Third dealer, a master Toro dealer, fixed it up under warrenty no problem. I lost that mower in a divorce, I then bought the Toro PP 21" alum deck from a Toro dealer, $450, no issues in 3 years. Although I do wish it cut better in discharge mode.. seems to work well in mulch mode. The better unit does have a longer warrenty and the drive gears are enclosed and greaseable. No so on the cheaper one, which is it's weakest link, which is what happened to my first one. Some junk got in the gear, jambed it and it broke. Since 90% of my present PP useage is side discharge... I am looking for a better cutting 'trim' mower.
To OP.. I would get the better Toro PP if you are only doing 3-6 small lawns a week and be prepared to replace it after 2 years max, hopefully by then your business will have grown enough to afford a commercial grade. I would not even consider the cheaper HD PP for homeowner use.

The big sticking point for me is the transmission....I dont know if I will like the PP. I like the idea of controlling the tranny myself...but is it worth the extra $$$ The lawns I tend to cut have thick zoysia and some have pretty steep hills.

ixlr8
05-17-2010, 01:11 PM
The big sticking point for me is the transmission....I dont know if I will like the PP. I like the idea of controlling the tranny myself...but is it worth the extra $$$ The lawns I tend to cut have thick zoysia and some have pretty steep hills.

I use my PP 98% of the time for trimming, for that, I really like the transmission, I know others who really HATE it. Makes for real easy one handed trimming/cleaning up under all the pine trees I deal with around here. If I had to mow entire lawns with it... I can't say, but I think I would still like it. I also don't have to deal with the thick Zoysia grass. I like the fact that speed control is totally up to me, my needs, my mood, beginning/end of day, not limited by transmission gear/engine rpm.

yardguy28
05-17-2010, 06:42 PM
That stuff is all residential which doesn't last that long.



I prefer commercial too for lawn equipment, however the CONSUMER not residential Toro 21" prolines seem to work fine.

i don't mean to sound stupid but your wording confusing me....:confused: the toro 21" prolines mowers ARE commercial equipment.

wasn't thread about whether he should buy this COMMERCIAL mower vs. buying the RESIDENTIAL super recycler???

depending on how many properties he will be using this 21 incher depends on which he should purchase is partially my opinion. i started with a honda residential as my first 21 incher and then it started to have starting problems. so i went to crap depot and purchased a 2008 personal pace electric start toro that doesn't cut worth a sheot. after that i ended up purchasing my aunts 1985 toro that has been the best cutting 21 incher i've come across and starts on the first pull. but that won't last forever being how old it is and i came across the 2005 brand new toro 21 commercial for only $500 so i jumped on it. i prefer to have all commercial equipment anyway so it worked out well for me. it cuts just as good as the 1985 toro i have and it's commercial grade and quality so will last me a very long time.

i only have maybe half a dozen lawns i use a 21 incher on in the first place so if i would have found a good residential one before i found this commercial toro i would have been perfectly fine getting one. but i didn't.

my advice...buy a toro personal pace and be done with it.
you can get a pull start from home depot for $349. find a 10% off coupon somewhere and save about $40 dollars.
the toro personal pace come with a 3 yr warranty so you covered for a while.

or if you can find one on craigslist, that would be sweet also.

i bought a Toro personal pace off of craigslist 7 months ago for $150. I only needed one for small areas my Zs wont reach...but didnt see myself spending $1000 for a mower I'd only use 15 minutes a week

Do not buy from Home Repo they do not honor their warranties and that's a 3 year residential warranty also so if you told them you were using it commercially nobody would cover you. It's box store junk anyway if you guys want to post this stuff don't post on the commercial forum go to the homeowner one.

as stated above the toro i purchased from home depot happened to be a lemon and i will NEVER purchase another mower from a big box store ever again.

this mower doesn't cut worth a sheot, it pulls to left, the tecumshe engine doesn't start on the first pull or turn of the key every time even after warmed up.

i can't speak for them honoring there warrenty because i purchased mine at one of the stores that was going out of business but i will never buy another mower from home depot or any other store like it.

i will forever purchase all my equipment from my dealers.