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View Full Version : Grass seeding ????'s


pt747
05-17-2010, 01:57 PM
1st off.........I know you guys can be harsh at times. I AM NO PROFESSIONAL. I HAVE A GREEN THUMB AND DO WELL WITH MY YARD 99% OF THE TIME, BUT HAVE A QUESTION.

Last year I had a new horseshoe driveway put in. I back filled it with new screened topsoil and put down Scotts fall time seed as it was in late October. My neighbor also had a driveway put in by same paving company and they back filled it as well and I put down the same Scotts fall seed for her and she has great grass now and I do not. I added 12 yards of new soil (again) to the bare spots about 2 weeks ago and put down KBG seed and its still hardly growing. When seeding I added Milorganite and starter fertilizer on my lawn. I did not do this to my neighbors, and she has lush, green grass surrounding her driveway. I dont get it. It has rained every other day here, so it is getting watered. When the soil was dry, I raked again and again and re-seeded and watered. I am clueless. Any advice would be appreciated.

And I DID make sure not to hit new areas with crab grass preventer in spring.

Thanks!

freddyc
05-18-2010, 05:05 PM
1st off.........I know you guys can be harsh at times. I AM NO PROFESSIONAL. I HAVE A GREEN THUMB AND DO WELL WITH MY YARD 99% OF THE TIME, BUT HAVE A QUESTION.

Last year I had a new horseshoe driveway put in. I back filled it with new screened topsoil and put down Scotts fall time seed as it was in late October. My neighbor also had a driveway put in by same paving company and they back filled it as well and I put down the same Scotts fall seed for her and she has great grass now and I do not. I added 12 yards of new soil (again) to the bare spots about 2 weeks ago and put down KBG seed and its still hardly growing. When seeding I added Milorganite and starter fertilizer on my lawn. I did not do this to my neighbors, and she has lush, green grass surrounding her driveway. I dont get it. It has rained every other day here, so it is getting watered. When the soil was dry, I raked again and again and re-seeded and watered. I am clueless. Any advice would be appreciated.

And I DID make sure not to hit new areas with crab grass preventer in spring.

Thanks!


For new lawns they recommend :

72 lbs. per 2,500 sq. ft. Milorganite.

Don't know how much you added, or what your other application rates were. How much seed and starter did you put down per 1000 ft2, and if it's only been 10 days or so for KBG then maybe you need to wait a little for results.

I'd also question the chemistry between the starter fert and Milorganite. Did you just spread it with the seed or did you mix it into the top couple inches of soil. Are you sure you don't have too much nitrogen for the roots to develop?

Obviously, because you did the same at your neighbors and she has great results, then its either she has better sun, watering, or the added ferts are killing you. Are the 2 lawns the same slope and do they both get the same sun amount/day? Just because the driveway guy did both yards doesn't mean he got the soil in the same place. Something to consider.

fl-landscapes
05-18-2010, 05:19 PM
Basically what has already been said. There are to many variables to consider which may be unique to your micro environment for us to make a distance diagnosis....but if all things appear to be equal between you and the next door property you are going to have to figure out what is not the same if she has great results and you do not. Different sunlight, watering conditions, soil contaminants, pre-emergents you mentioned...sure none ended up in the beds? take a soil sample to the extension service and remember sometimes doing less is better than more when it comes to fertilizer and seeding.

ChiTownAmateur
05-18-2010, 06:15 PM
We need more information I think to give good advice but the first thing that sticks out to me is that you say after the driveways were done you seeded in late October...in Ohio

that is way too late for seeds to take and germinate, in fact it's possible if it was late enough they sat dormant for spring seeding

in ohio where you are you need to have seeds down by early sept especially if bluegrass is involved

so what kind of growth, if any, occured last fall? what about in spring, when did it come up? (your lawn, versus hers)

Your reseeding process:

1) KBG, if not part of a mixture, takes anywhere from 21 days to 35 days to germinate, under ideal conditions. Yes, it can come up in 10-14 days sometimes, but if it just starting popping up after 2 weeks and you raked the soil....you may have stopped your own process there.

2) KBG is very small seed, it needs to be applied to the surface and just barely raked in and not buried at all. If buried too deep it won't come up. You can till all you want but once the surface is flattened and rolled a bit, apply to surface and just barely rake in...apply some form of mulch...VERY SPARINGLY!!!

3) Water properly. Once the soil is done, the seed is down, it is 100% critical to do this right. Keep it moist all day long...if leaving early on a hot day, put down a little more water. Water when you get home and water less, just enough to moisten it. Be relentless, water for 4 weeks, you will get results.

pt747
05-19-2010, 01:01 PM
Thanks for all the advice.

Scott's offered a Fall Seed last year saying it will help in an early spring green-up. It worked for her yard, but not mine. She lives directly accross the street with same yard slope and sun. I have not touched her yard since applying the seed in mid October 2009 and she has very dark grass lining her drive. As for mine, I applied the same seed in mid-October 2009 along with starter fertilizer and some Milorganite, about half a 36lb bag. This spring I had minimal grass growing and hers was full and lush. So.......I added some new top soil (12yrds) and re-applied Pennigton KBG about 2 weeks ago, raked into the soil, and still nothing but some weeds. My friend is a landscaper and applied the soil. He does not plant yards or offer fertizing. He only mowes and builds walls and decks and walkways. I am clueless! Both yards are pretty flat with hardly any water run-off to wash away the seeds.

RigglePLC
05-19-2010, 02:36 PM
Did you apply any crabgrass control? Crabgrass control would block the germination of new seed. How much are you watering? Every day is the only proper way for new seed.

It might be wise to test this seed and soil situation. Plant seed in a coffee mug inside. One mug of your soil and one mug of your neighbor's or some other soil. Keep in warm place. No sun needed for first week. Compare results after a week.

Perhaps paving people put down a powerful chemical to prevent weeds from growing through pavement.

I should point out that Pennington KBG is not your best choice. Kbg is very slow to germinate and establish. In this situation a mix of perennial rye and Kentucky bluegrass is a better choice. Perennial rye (if a top-quality variety) is by far faster and still looks almost identical. On my own lawn I used "Scotts High Traffic" last month. Inside, it was a half inch high in 72 hours. Outside, slower, but my wife is mowing it for the first time, even as I type this. Thanks Honey.

ChiTownAmateur
05-19-2010, 05:00 PM
OK I think I got it after more thought

You dormant seeded both lawns and in spring she got lucky because however the water got there, her's germinated well. Yours on the other hand was drier and not moist long enough and it turned out most did not germinate.

Why you ask? Because somehow her soil, location and maybe watering allowed her seeds to stay moist long enough to germinate -- 4 to 6 weeks potentially for KBG

It's the only explanation I can think of when you used the same soil, same time, same sun and same seed.

SO --

what this means, imo, is that you did everything right except watering. Once the soil got warm enough the seeds began to germinate...and because they are KBG seeds they need a long time moist before they come up.

You have to keep that stuff watered, 2x a day (except with rain) until it ALL comes up. Probably another 4 weeks.

Stick with it, 2x a day, and be faithful that you did it right and deserve and will get results. 2 weeks is halfway there. In 1 more week you'll see a bunch coming up and in 2-3 weeks the majority will come in.

You did it right I think, except dormant seeding is tough for us amateurs. She got lucky, nothing more or less (unless she somehow knew to water)

rainbowss
05-21-2010, 01:06 AM
Is her house facing west?

pt747
05-21-2010, 12:54 PM
Is her house facing west?+

Her house faces south, mine faces north. Directle accross the street from one another, but we get the same sun on both properties. I am now starting to a bit of green in areas on my lawn, but like I said, I applied her seed late in October with no starter fertilizer or anything and her yard is looking so good.

rainbowss
05-21-2010, 01:11 PM
You might be onto something about fertilizer as I saw much faster germination(as in half the time) without it. But there are still variables(type of soil, etc) which I am not bothered to go find out.

Keep it watered :)

pt747
05-24-2010, 02:12 PM
You might be onto something about fertilizer as I saw much faster germination(as in half the time) without it. But there are still variables(type of soil, etc) which I am not bothered to go find out.

Keep it watered :)

I got the new sreened top soil from same garden center. Top quality stuff.

Maybe my over doing of using starter and Milorganite had an effect???

Since my last post, grass is really comming in good with minamal weeds which I will kill off once grass is fully in.

I'm just stumped as to why her grass came in so well, with a late October seeding, and mine didnt. Its crazy! I had to re-soil (12 efin yards) and re-seed to finally get SOME grass to grow. Like I said, I used Scotts FALL grass seeds on both properties at the same time.

We wont see rain until late this week, so I guess I'll be watering!

ChiTownAmateur
05-24-2010, 02:33 PM
the issue for you is simple and can be avoided in the future. you did not do a fall seeding in mid/late october, you did a dormant seeding

the seeds sit until spring and wait for the warm-up and begin germinating...as long as they have enough water, they grow, if they don't they stop. Yours were stopped at some point and never came up, hers stayed wet enough.

Fall seeding is done in your area from late august through september and is done to establish the grass before fall and winter dormancy. Your technique, honestly, was a shot in the dark for an amateur and she got lucky and you didn't. Having to seed it again is not a bad thing. Most likely you DID NOT have to change the soil again but now that it's done...it's done. Continue to be patient, with this warm weather it will all come up.

Turboguy
05-24-2010, 04:27 PM
the issue for you is simple and can be avoided in the future. you did not do a fall seeding in mid/late october, you did a dormant seeding

the seeds sit until spring and wait for the warm-up and begin germinating...as long as they have enough water, they grow, if they don't they stop. Yours were stopped at some point and never came up, hers stayed wet enough.

Fall seeding is done in your area from late august through september and is done to establish the grass before fall and winter dormancy. Your technique, honestly, was a shot in the dark for an amateur and she got lucky and you didn't. Having to seed it again is not a bad thing. Most likely you DID NOT have to change the soil again but now that it's done...it's done. Continue to be patient, with this warm weather it will all come up.

Actually October or early November is too early to dormant seed in Youngstown. It will either come in or you will lose it. I am sitting 25 miles from youngstown. I am attaching a photo of a lawn I hydro seeded on October 25th and another photo of the lawn taken November 15th. It did grow a little more after I took that photo and this spring was beautiful. I don't think the problem was when he seeded. I think it could be the grass type.

I normally seed until November 1st. I have done some jobs later but prefer to not seed after that date. I don't start dormant seeding until at least the first of December. The odds are if you try to dormant seed in November it will germinate but not get strong enough to survive a hard winter freeze.

ChiTownAmateur
05-24-2010, 05:39 PM
That's really surprising you can get enough time for rooting to take and keep through a long winter. You would know better than me living there what the conditions are...why however risk it so late...did the homeowner not decide until the last minute? I would think even there get the seed down as early as possible to avoid a wasted effort.

Amazing differences in climate, I am in chicago and seeding in November there isn't the slightest chance you could get it to establish well, over there you hryoseeded in mid-october and did just fine.

Turboguy
05-24-2010, 09:21 PM
...why however risk it so late...did the homeowner not decide until the last minute? I would think even there get the seed down as early as possible to avoid a wasted effort.



I was actually seeding for the contractor that built the home and that was when they had it ready to seed. There were a few areas that I had to come back to seed. One where they had a storage trailer parked and a few areas I had to skip because other subs had supplies in the way. Even what I seeded in November came in but that is later than I usually would want to try it.

RigglePLC
05-25-2010, 09:41 AM
747--
If her house faced south and yours faced north--then the difference in sunlight and soil temp could have made the difference. Perhaps combined with moisture and fert conditions, and perhaps depth of soil covering the seed, or firmness of packing of the soil.