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shade tree landscaping
05-18-2010, 06:35 PM
We did a job about 10days ago, planted about 35 flats of impatients, all were in good health when planted. Got a call yesturday from property manager complaing that alot had died, went today to take a look at at least half have died. I know that its not the location b/c we have planted them there before and they always did well. I know that they are watered well b/c we check the sprinkler coverage every season to make sure. I applied 14-14-14 at time of planting, could that be whats burning the flowers up?

mdlwn1
05-18-2010, 06:40 PM
That would depend on how much you put down. Secondly...were they on the dry side when you planted them into dry soil..on a day that wasnt raining? (just giving you a scenario) Some of the flowers I got this year had extremely small roots while the flower was pretty big...had I not prewaterd..they would have been toast in 2 hours. Is there a pattern to the dead?...1/2...random...here and there?

Mike's Lawn & Snow
05-18-2010, 06:51 PM
While it has never happened to me I have heard that to much fertilizer will kill flowers in no time.

mdlwn1
05-18-2010, 06:53 PM
While it has never happened to me I have heard that to much fertilizer will kill flowers in no time.

:drinkup::clapping:

shade tree landscaping
05-18-2010, 07:10 PM
Fert wasn't applied all that heavy. Flowers were planted into new natrual mulch and watered with a hose rite after planting, they weren't dry but not soaked prior to planting. No real pattern, I was looking for that today when I inspected them, but just randomly. Only thing I can think of would be the 14-14-14 killing them even though it wasn't put down all that heavy.

Mike's Lawn & Snow
05-18-2010, 07:11 PM
a lot of times once our soil is amended properly we won't even put a fertilizer down and will rely solely on the fertilizer that is with the flower and then come back later in the summer time and give them a light fertilizer.

phasthound
05-18-2010, 07:17 PM
NJ Landscapers such as Lipinski and Moon have had very good results when planting annuals with our worm castings, yes worm poop! :)

shade tree landscaping
05-18-2010, 07:24 PM
the poop, weather warm or cold, wouldn't fly with the property manger/owner. Its a high end apartment building in a urban enviroment, they complained of the smell from the natrual triple shred mulch we put down.

mdlwn1
05-18-2010, 07:25 PM
You planted them into "new natural mulch"? Mulch probably cooked them off a bit. Heres what I go through when I plant. 1. I almost never use mulch..I used to..then I learned better...2. If you are planting into mulch..make sure the entire root system is in the soil BELOW...not the mulch...big deal!..3. New natural mulch will almost always cook anything that is remotely fragile..sometimes you can get mulch with a ph of less than 4. Im from Toms River......OCRC had mulch that burned grass after sitting on it for less than 5 minutes...a handfull! Did the mulch smell more than usual? My guess is ytou have a bit of a symphony of problems......

mdlwn1
05-18-2010, 07:26 PM
the poop, weather warm or cold, wouldn't fly with the property manger/owner. Its a high end apartment building in a urban enviroment, they complained of the smell from the natrual triple shred mulch we put down.

You just found your answer. And btw...worm casting...well...Ill let Barry tell you...lol!

shade tree landscaping
05-18-2010, 07:46 PM
Wasn't at the job at time of install so can't confirm or deny how bad smell was. Never knew the natural mulch would kill off the flowers that easily. When we plant other flowers at other jobs we plant rite into the died mulch and never once ahd an issue. THis is the first issue ever with the flowers dieing, never would have thought the mulch would have burned them up. Thanks for all the quick feedback

phasthound
05-18-2010, 08:45 PM
the poop, weather warm or cold, wouldn't fly with the property manger/owner. Its a high end apartment building in a urban enviroment, they complained of the smell from the natrual triple shred mulch we put down.

There is no odor with worm castings. Many people have preconcieved conceptions as to what castings smell or look like. The product has the consistancy and smell of the best potting soil you have ever put your hands on. Mixed at the rate of 5-10% of existing soil when planting is enough for transplanting anything from annuals to trees. My clients also have high end properties to maintain and they require outstanding results. Some have reported a 50% reduction of transplant losses with woody ornamentals.

shovelracer
05-18-2010, 08:45 PM
Im not sure about your area, but we had severe frost about 1-2 weeks ago here. If they were exposed it could be very possible. There is a local business that had about 30 various flats planted the day before and most of them are turning bad.

shade tree landscaping
05-18-2010, 08:51 PM
def wasn't the frost, was planted after the last late "cold snap" that we had about 2 weeks ago, plus they were installed in Hoboken, so I would think that being urban like that that it would be warmer than the suburbs, def warmer than you up in North Jersey. You guys are always colder and get more snow up there

phasthound
05-18-2010, 08:53 PM
Im not sure about your area, but we had severe frost about 1-2 weeks ago here. If they were exposed it could be very possible. There is a local business that had about 30 various flats planted the day before and most of them are turning bad.

That's a good point. We didn't get the frost here, not sure about Monmouth County.

shovelracer
05-18-2010, 08:56 PM
Yes but where they exposed at the nursery? What grower did they originate from? Frost damage takes time. Otherwise could also be mulch burn if it was real "hot"

mdlwn1
05-18-2010, 08:58 PM
It wouldnt have hurt them the same way acidic mulch or drying out would have anyway...easy to tell the difference. Especially if the damage was here and there as opposed to evenly distributed.

grassman177
05-18-2010, 08:59 PM
my vote is mulch burn, many reasons for this like planting in it instead of the soil, or even adding too much overall or especially around the base of the plants. it can kill them easily especially if the mulch is really starting to decay and has been in a pile or bag for a while it starts to degrade and release some amonium and burn.

shade tree landscaping
05-18-2010, 09:20 PM
Def wasn't from the nursery, have been buying flowers from them for a few years, never had an issue, they have over 3acres of indoor greenhouse(1 building) for the flowers, plus we bought a bunch of other flats that same day, same types of flowers and haven't had any issues with those on other sites. Going to be replacing the flowers tommorow, fingers crossed that these don't die!!!!!

mdlwn1
05-18-2010, 09:23 PM
Def wasn't from the nursery, have been buying flowers from them for a few years, never had an issue, they have over 3acres of indoor greenhouse(1 building) for the flowers, plus we bought a bunch of other flats that same day, same types of flowers and haven't had any issues with those on other sites. Going to be replacing the flowers tommorow, fingers crossed that these don't die!!!!!

Take the mulch and hold it up to your nose as if you were gonna snort it...if it still has a major burn smell...be carefull!

Az Gardener
05-18-2010, 09:42 PM
The question about the death pattern was a good one. Also what stages are the live ones in? No damage, tip wilt, slowly continuing to decline?

I would consider two things first. Usually the potting medium they use at the nursery is light and airy and does not hold moisture well so I always plant root balls that are soaking wet. I have seen dry clay wick the moisture right out of freshly planted "damp" flowers. So that would be guess #one and obviously a good soak will begin to improve the situation.

Next pull up a dead plant and find a good size root and gently pull on it, if it breaks off it probably just dried out. If the outer layer of the root slides off like a shirt sleeve coming off your arm you have a fungus. The death will look just like not enough water. Fungus is rampant out here and we usually do a dip with a fungicide like Subdue and Banrot prior to planting to keep the root ball wet and inoculate against fungus.

Frost will turn Inpatients into jelly overnight. Mulch should not burn them, manure would burn but not much. Compost would be your best bet though for future planting.

Flowers are my thing, been teaching a class to landscapers with a university professor for 13 years.

mdlwn1
05-18-2010, 09:46 PM
The question about the death pattern was a good one. Also what stages are the live ones in? No damage, tip wilt, slowly continuing to decline?

I would consider two things first. Usually the potting medium they use at the nursery is light and airy and does not hold moisture well so I always plant root balls that are soaking wet. I have seen dry clay wick the moisture right out of freshly planted "damp" flowers. So that would be guess #one and obviously a good soak will begin to improve the situation.

Next pull up a dead plant and find a good size root and gently pull on it, if it breaks off it probably just dried out. If the outer layer of the root slides off like a shirt sleeve coming off your arm you have a fungus. The death will look just like not enough water. Fungus is rampant out here and we usually do a dip with a fungicide like Subdue and Banrot prior to planting to keep the root ball wet and inoculate against fungus.

Frost will turn Inpatients into jelly overnight. Mulch should not burn them, manure would burn but not much. Compost would be your best bet though for future planting.

Flowers are my thing, been teaching a class to landscapers with a university professor for 13 years.

Our mulch can and will at times destroy things...grass..any new succulant growth, impatients within what seems like minutes. It all depends on who made it. But like you said..compost is the way to go...few people do it here.

shade tree landscaping
05-18-2010, 09:47 PM
I'm going to take a few pics tommorow on my phone when I am up there and post them on here. Its going to be hard to pull them out and tru the root pulling method as we had a day full of rain. The ones alive are in different stages of health, but 90% of the living ones are doing fine. Can't do compost for one smell and two everyone in this area loves mulch mulch mulch!

Will try the smell test tommorow but again it has rained for past 24hrs and I have had a nasty head cold, can't smell a thing. But will def give it a try in the morning

shade tree landscaping
05-18-2010, 09:48 PM
MDLWN1 we posted same thing almost simultaniously about few doing or wanting compst in this area

mdlwn1
05-18-2010, 09:54 PM
I just looked at the pics on your website of flowers planted in what looks like dyed mulch. While I would not recomend you do that (weak flowers in too much mulch)..I would certainly expect significant failure if planted in our natural mulch along with less than ideal moisture. Even hot mulch (not even acidic) would cook those little guys in that amount of mulch.

PerfectEarth
05-18-2010, 10:00 PM
Good info, AZ!

shade tree landscaping
05-19-2010, 06:44 PM
The pics on my website are from other jobs, not the one I was talking about. Never have had an issue with the dyed mulch. I tihnk that the mulch cooked the flowers, after looking and seeing first hand today. I will post a pic I took with my phone later on

mdlwn1
05-19-2010, 06:49 PM
I was aware that those pics were not the ones you were talking about. I was trying to say that what you did in those pics would not work in natural mulch without a constant (like an IV drip) supply of water.

Harry0
05-31-2010, 11:40 AM
I used natural root mulch before and had annuals and perennials burn and die. It was from the local county landfill-It was too acidic-They told me to add lime-I just stopped buying it-I believe it was too new and they did not let it sit enough. What a hassle

TJLANDS
06-01-2010, 12:45 PM
We did a job about 10days ago, planted about 35 flats of impatients, all were in good health when planted. Got a call yesturday from property manager complaing that alot had died, went today to take a look at at least half have died. I know that its not the location b/c we have planted them there before and they always did well. I know that they are watered well b/c we check the sprinkler coverage every season to make sure. I applied 14-14-14 at time of planting, could that be whats burning the flowers up?

9 times out of 10 it will be an irrigation issue.
Impatiens are tough to grow in a full sun setting but it can be done.
We have to water them 2X a day, or they will die in full sun.

44DCNF
06-01-2010, 02:06 PM
If they were already in bloom, the nitrogen ratio would have been too high. You'd want to cut back on the nitrogen going into and during flowering. High soil temperatures can damage young developing roots too so it could have been partly from the mulch if it was "hot" or created high soil temps by blocking airflow, dark color, etc. A transplant ferilizer to help root formation would be more along the lines of a 4/10/3.
And, "Amen" to the worm castings.

ICT Bill
06-01-2010, 02:14 PM
I'm going to take a few pics tommorow on my phone when I am up there and post them on here. Its going to be hard to pull them out and tru the root pulling method as we had a day full of rain. The ones alive are in different stages of health, but 90% of the living ones are doing fine. Can't do compost for one smell and two everyone in this area loves mulch mulch mulch!

Will try the smell test tommorow but again it has rained for past 24hrs and I have had a nasty head cold, can't smell a thing. But will def give it a try in the morning
Finished compost smells like rich earth or has very little smell at all. If it smells bad don't use it, please
Worm castings do not smell either, except a light earthy smell

I think everyone likes the look of Mulch in the bed, it is a nice clean look and it keeps weedseeds from germinating. I think the suggestion was to cover with a good to great compost and lightly, just for looks, cover with mulch