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View Full Version : $10/sq ft ?? that must be expensive now...check this out


tturbonegro
05-19-2010, 11:15 PM
another example of someone ruining the business....i don't care if this guy doesn't sell one job and they usually aren't are competition...but....they still put it out there and people read it and get it in their head that this is what its should cost...came across this in free 'home improvement' local contractors ad type thing...they are in every local wawa and grocery store..

$7.50 sq ft ?!?!?!?!!!!

:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:


http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad349/wrkpics/pics/misc/IMAG0623.jpg
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad349/wrkpics/pics/misc/IMAG0624.jpg
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad349/wrkpics/pics/misc/IMAG0625.jpg

zedosix
05-19-2010, 11:31 PM
Why would you care, you seem to have alot of work already. It doesn't bother me in the slightest because these guys are fly by nights and the type of customer I want (and you) are not the type that shop by price. In every trade it's the same, and the end result is the same.

4Russl5
05-19-2010, 11:32 PM
This seems to be the first company on steroids, and plenty of access to cash. A little scary.

Stone Creations
05-21-2010, 11:47 PM
funny ****..wouldnt worry about it...wont last!!

Rex Mann
05-22-2010, 12:53 AM
Same story here in Phoenix, but the prices are $2.75 a square foot. Talk about lowballers that wont last.

Peace,

Rex

http://PaversInstalled.Com

4Russl5
05-22-2010, 01:15 AM
How much are those products a square foot? I only do natural stone....

zedosix
05-22-2010, 07:32 AM
Same story here in Phoenix, but the prices are $2.75 a square foot. Talk about lowballers that wont last.

Peace,

Rex

http://PaversInstalled.Com

You HAVE to be kidding Rex. This is not possible unless homeowner is paying for all hardscape related materials.

etwman
05-22-2010, 09:02 AM
Its one thing to separate yourself from the competition. Its another to look like a total idiot doing it.

I wonder how many change orders are issued on thier average install?

DVS Hardscaper
05-22-2010, 10:14 AM
Like I keep saying, the paver industry has certainly taken a different turn.

Depending on the market you're in you can no longer be a company that is dedicated soley to hardscapes offering planting with your hardscape jobs. Yeah, there was a severe recession, but push these crazy, misleading low rates is more damaging then the recesssion. We have a contractor here that does that and he is making money hand over fist, he's gobbeling up jobs left and right. Ok, great for him. BUT.......his workmanship reflects the prices and he is not standing behind their work. It's very frustrating because when I meet with potential clients I have to be ethical and not bad mouth other contractors, so all I can do is say "i highly suggest you do your homework thouroughly and look at jobs that were done 3-4 years ago, not 2 months ago"


,

tadpole
05-22-2010, 12:57 PM
Like I keep saying, the paver industry has certainly taken a different turn.

Depending on the market you're in you can no longer be a company that is dedicated soley to hardscapes offering planting with your hardscape jobs. Yeah, there was a severe recession, but push these crazy, misleading low rates is more damaging then the recesssion. We have a contractor here that does that and he is making money hand over fist, he's gobbeling up jobs left and right. Ok, great for him. BUT.......his workmanship reflects the prices and he is not standing behind their work. It's very frustrating because when I meet with potential clients I have to be ethical and not bad mouth other contractors, so all I can do is say "i highly suggest you do your homework thouroughly and look at jobs that were done 3-4 years ago, not 2 months ago
,

I fail to see what is unethical in informing a potential customer that they are about to be 'Fleeced' by another party. I also refuse to legitimize these individuals as 'Contractors'.

DVS Hardscaper
05-23-2010, 08:49 PM
Went on a promising estimate yesterday.

Now I did NOT take a picture of the prospective client's home, Let me just say that all the homes on this stretch of road are of similar scope and value. This is a picture of the neighbor's home. These $10 / Sf and $7 / Sf guys can only dream of being a part of such a property.........

tturbonegro
05-23-2010, 10:52 PM
Ya that's an impressive home for sure
Posted via Mobile Device

Devil Lawn Care
05-24-2010, 01:00 AM
Went on a promising estimate yesterday.

Now I did NOT take a picture of the prospective client's home, Let me just say that all the homes on this stretch of road are of similar scope and value. This is a picture of the neighbor's home. These $10 / Sf and $7 / Sf guys can only dream of being a part of such a property.........

I have been on this site for a while and not have the need to offer any oppinion up until now. I think that guys like you are a dying breed. I say this because you are stuck in a time where you can offer only one service and charge a premium for it, while others get by mowing and trimming. Now in this economy those "lawn guys" are offering every type of service to there customer instead of saying "I dont do that, please find someone else". I offer every type of service to all of my 100 residential customers, and 35 commercial properties. I dont advertise. I install pavers starting at $6.50 sqft. Why? Because I dont solely depend on that for income. I am at a customers house and I mow, trim trees and plant, so why would I not do hardscaping. You so called "hardscapers" need to stop complaining and get with the program and adapt to the current economy otherwise you will be working for someone else with a sad story to tell. I make pleanty of money personaly and with my business. I did well over $4 million last year and made just under a million personaly. When I talk with guys new to the industry, I do all I can to help those guys out. Because one bad apple can ruin it for everyone. So instead of putting these guys down, get back to helping others out. I do a ton of work cash, I buy the supplies through my business, and have them pay me cash money. So stop complaining about the "lawn guy" getting into your so called industry and do something to boost your income. There is more than enough money out there for everyone. :cry:

zedosix
05-24-2010, 08:54 AM
I have been on this site for a while and not have the need to offer any oppinion up until now. I think that guys like you are a dying breed. I say this because you are stuck in a time where you can offer only one service and charge a premium for it, while others get by mowing and trimming. Now in this economy those "lawn guys" are offering every type of service to there customer instead of saying "I dont do that, please find someone else". I offer every type of service to all of my 100 residential customers, and 35 commercial properties. I dont advertise. I install pavers starting at $6.50 sqft. Why? Because I dont solely depend on that for income. I am at a customers house and I mow, trim trees and plant, so why would I not do hardscaping. You so called "hardscapers" need to stop complaining and get with the program and adapt to the current economy otherwise you will be working for someone else with a sad story to tell. I make pleanty of money personaly and with my business. I did well over $4 million last year and made just under a million personaly. When I talk with guys new to the industry, I do all I can to help those guys out. Because one bad apple can ruin it for everyone. So instead of putting these guys down, get back to helping others out. I do a ton of work cash, I buy the supplies through my business, and have them pay me cash money. So stop complaining about the "lawn guy" getting into your so called industry and do something to boost your income. There is more than enough money out there for everyone. :cry:

Taking cash is a personal thing and is wrong. If you are taking cash and hiding the money then its obvious that you are NOT charging enough to pay your bills. It is people like yourself who ruin it for others who do things by the book "legal".

Budlightshooter
05-24-2010, 10:58 AM
[QUOTE= I did well over $4 million last year and made just under a million personaly.:[/QUOTE]




LOL in az doin lawn care?

tturbonegro
05-24-2010, 12:27 PM
I don't no watt else to say besides your just an idiot....i highly doubt your numbers are true..and if what your saying is accurate I bet your accountant would advise you not to be so open about it on a public forum...6.50 a ft and putting a mill in your pocket? Is there 50 hrs in a day and 12 days in your week in Arizona?
If the paver costs $2-3 + stone,sand, edging, and sweep..your making about $2 sq ft....that's with no daily labor, fuel, equipment, food, insurance, etc.. costs...
Tell me where the profit is on that? And how mutch do you actually care and take attention to detail when your profit per job is so low?
Quantity over quality?
Your just making others look bad and putting ridiculous pricing into peoples heads.
Even if your said figures are true im not impressed.your a joke and I'm sure your work reflects it...have a great day thanks for sharing
Posted via Mobile Device

kootoomootoo
05-24-2010, 05:56 PM
another lawnsite millionaire is born......1st post and multi millionaire no less.

luv it.

DVS Hardscaper
05-24-2010, 05:57 PM
LOL That 'Devil 1st post Lawn Care' is comical! I'm curious how 135 lawns in Arizona makes $4 mil? Great Monday humor, thanks we needed that!

4 mil this. 1 mil that. Yeah, people always boast numbers in post number 1! NOT!

Lawn customers are great. Even their neighbors are great. Last week the neighbor of one of our lawn customers called about a patio. Cept we don't do concrete.........





,

etwman
05-24-2010, 06:11 PM
Andrew you shouldn't be putting a picture of Todd's house on here like that. He'd be thoroughly embarrassed.

DVS Hardscaper
05-24-2010, 06:20 PM
ETW - I was in NJ this past weekend. The mailbox at the end of the driveway had "Adam & Mike'ole Fuelner" lettered on the side. And there was one of those cute, little, 2 seater, foreign convertibles infront of the garage.

Don't you like the 2 mil dollar home with 2 varities of a total of 11 shrubs in the front?! I'm surprised none of these super duper looper LANDSCAPERS haven't picked up on that.............


,

etwman
05-24-2010, 06:28 PM
On a clear day when I climb the little hill at the end of my road with a set of binoculars I can see that mailbox. Its huge.

What do they say in Texas? "Big Hat No Cattle"

PatriotLandscape
05-24-2010, 10:49 PM
I have been on this site for a while and not have the need to offer any oppinion up until now. I think that guys like you are a dying breed. I say this because you are stuck in a time where you can offer only one service and charge a premium for it, while others get by mowing and trimming. Now in this economy those "lawn guys" are offering every type of service to there customer instead of saying "I dont do that, please find someone else". I offer every type of service to all of my 100 residential customers, and 35 commercial properties. I dont advertise. I install pavers starting at $6.50 sqft. Why? Because I dont solely depend on that for income. I am at a customers house and I mow, trim trees and plant, so why would I not do hardscaping. You so called "hardscapers" need to stop complaining and get with the program and adapt to the current economy otherwise you will be working for someone else with a sad story to tell. I make pleanty of money personaly and with my business. I did well over $4 million last year and made just under a million personaly. When I talk with guys new to the industry, I do all I can to help those guys out. Because one bad apple can ruin it for everyone. So instead of putting these guys down, get back to helping others out. I do a ton of work cash, I buy the supplies through my business, and have them pay me cash money. So stop complaining about the "lawn guy" getting into your so called industry and do something to boost your income. There is more than enough money out there for everyone. :cry:

you sir are a hack and should take your one post and gtfo. doint things cash. your a big part of what is wrong with business in this country.

tadpole
05-24-2010, 11:15 PM
I wonder if any guest readers of this Forum work for the IRS?

DVS Hardscaper
05-25-2010, 12:11 AM
Letz not get carried away, here. Cash IS legal tender here in the United States. (Although I think the dude's writing was pretty clear)

It is 110% acceptable to be paid in cash and to accept cash. "Cash" as in American currency.

Many businesses are STRICTLY cash. Car washes. Arcades. I have been to bar that only take cash. I could go on and on. I had a client bounce a check on us, from that point on if they wanted us to do any more work - the only payment I would accept was CASH.

Not reporting cash income is a different story.



,

zedosix
05-25-2010, 10:04 PM
Anyone who takes cash on a reg. basis is not declaring 100% of it. We " up here" can also take cash but the problem starts with declaring cash income. Its a red flag on your name. Audits have destroyed people and their entire livelihood.

4Russl5
05-25-2010, 11:01 PM
Where did the topic go?

tadpole
05-25-2010, 11:29 PM
Which one?

DVS Hardscaper
05-25-2010, 11:53 PM
I haven't seen one....


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4Russl5
05-26-2010, 12:28 AM
Right........ we were whinning about something!

Paver Gangster
05-26-2010, 02:15 AM
you sir are a hack and should take your one post and gtfo. doint things cash. your a big part of what is wrong with business in this country.

The company generating $4 million and the owner pocketing 25% of that in an all cash business was the first of many bollocks alerts with that post! :D

As for the enterpeising lad promising a $19,995 raised patio, can someone get in touch with him, I want one, at the price for my backyard:

http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/laguna-beach-ca374.jpg

AzLawnMan
05-26-2010, 06:49 PM
Dont know what his costs are for doing pavers, but I just finished 850 sqft and we removed 5 1/2 inches of dirt put in 2 inches of ab and 1 inch of sand. We used the Belgard Cobblestone classic and after it was all said and done it cost me with labor and materials, $3.03 sqft. So if he is charging $6.50 sqft and he is doing it properly then he is still making money. Now if he's cutting corners then he is making alot more. I ran the numbers of the invoice and we charge the customer $13.76 sqft. So there is a huge profit margin. I would like to know your company name, I am here in Az and I know of only one privatly owned company that pulls those types of numbers and he is stricly commercial, no residential. Also, lets not kid ourselves we all do cash jobs from time to time and I dont think he was saying he pockets $1 million in cash, I think he makes around that including cash. My uncle makes right around $800k a year himself, but his company consist of 4 tree crews, 15 maintenance crews and 3 maybe 4 install crews. But back to the original post, we dont know what his cost are and what "hidden" fee's he has. Its just an ad to get people to call and get his foot in the door. Over the phone is one thing but put me in front of a client and I have a 60% closing rate. Hell I can advertise $1.33 sqft, then tell the customer, "Oh thats just the price of the pavers, other material, labor, etc are extra" then mark the price up from there. Who knows. If he's happy making pocket change then thats his deal. I am in this business for money, real money. So you wont be seeing my company lowering my price just to get the job. I always tell the customer, "Our company was here 20 years ago, and we will be here in another 20 years"

zedosix
05-26-2010, 07:12 PM
What do you pay your employees, monopoly money? I highly doubt your #'s.

AzLawnMan
05-26-2010, 07:20 PM
My point exactly. You dont know other companies cost or overhead. You dont know that each and every one of my employees are salary and they usually work 10 hour days. I dont have overtime cost or time and a half, my shop time for the crew is 15 min a day, shop time for forman is 30 min a day. Your cost per sqft is different from mine because you probobly pay your employees more than I have to pay mine. You have no clue what I get my materials for. You dont know that other than my truck, all my other trucks are paid for and so is every piece of equipment that I own. You dont know how much my labor is to yours. You also dont know how much my company makes a year. You dont know how much labor is in Arizona as compared to Ontario, so I think you dont know anyone else's situation other than your own. So there are alot of things you dont know, so why make the stupid statement?

zedosix
05-26-2010, 07:38 PM
I do have a clue what you pay, I've been in business long enough to know what brick and employees cost. Maybe down south the brick is only 25cents a sq.ft. and you pay your workers peanuts instead of cash, and your equipment is a wheelbarrow and shovel. Ok then I believe what you say.

tadpole
05-26-2010, 07:53 PM
My point exactly. You dont know other companies cost or overhead. You dont know that each and every one of my employees are salary and they usually work 10 hour days. I dont have overtime cost or time and a half

If your employees are working over 40 hours/week they are subject to overtime at time and a half. You can pay them a guaranteed salary, but they are not working in an exempt position. Check your Federal Wage and Hour laws. Being found in violation is worse than an IRS audit.

tturbonegro
05-26-2010, 09:50 PM
I do have a clue what you pay, I've been in business long enough to know what brick and employees cost. Maybe down south the brick is only 25cents a sq.ft. and you pay your workers peanuts instead of cash, and your equipment is a wheelbarrow and shovel. Ok then I believe what you say.

Hahah..truth


Still waiting for that guy to come back with a response..

Ther is also a Hugh local company to me that does a lot of commercial work and also residential paver jobs...he has huge buildings, tons of employees, probably 100 trucks and 50 machines...he probably does the said $4/$1 mill numbers but he's not doing them for 6.50 a ft and he's not online bs'ng about it

Sure those numbers are possible but not for those sq ft prices
Posted via Mobile Device

4Russl5
05-26-2010, 10:27 PM
Sounds like we all have it figured out for our markets. Some more so than others, if we measure by profitability.

Personally, I wouldn't get out of bed for a project with that low of square footage cost. Who cares though? For natural stone, my square footage costs are what you are charging, on the low end.

Some people here are better business people than others and big machines. I am the least successful of my landscaping friends companies financially. But we do killer high quality stone projects that my friends would kill to have in their portfolios.
Again, who cares?

Build the company you want and learn from the ones you respect. You never know who the person is typing these replies.

We are stronger as a community.

What if AZ devil guy emails you, and requests your help on a project, and it pays well?
Haha or ?

I have actually had several people inquire about jobs based on reading my dialogue here.

DVS Hardscaper
05-26-2010, 11:03 PM
Different states have different labor laws. Although most of them are the same state to state. In MD a salaried employee that does not get time and a half must be in a management position. yes, you can have salaried employees, but if they are not management you have to pay them overtime. Check your state's labor laws.

I do think most of us veteran contractors know numbers. Heck it costs money before our truck leaves the yard.

AzLawnMan
05-26-2010, 11:03 PM
Sounds like we all have it figured out for our markets. Some more so than others, if we measure by profitability.

Personally, I wouldn't get out of bed for a project with that low of square footage cost. Who cares though? For natural stone, my square footage costs are what you are charging, on the low end.
Some people here are better business people than others and big machines. I am the least successful of my landscaping friends companies financially. But we do killer high quality stone projects that my friends would kill to have in their portfolios.
Again, who cares?
Build the company you want and learn from the ones you respect. You never know who the person is typing these replies.
We are stronger as a community.
What if AZ devil guy emails you, and requests your help on a project, and it pays well?
Haha or ?
I have actually had several people inquire about jobs based on reading my dialogue here.

I agree, this site was designed to help others out and offer consructive advice. I feel within the last 2 years, the people on here have gotten away from that. I was buying some parts today from a long time vendor, 20 years we have been going to him for our equipment and parts. Anyways a guy walked in with nice new shirt and brand new truck and trailer, and didnt know the first thing to buy. I talked with him for 30 minutes and told him the equipment that I buy and why I buy it. The owner of the place smiled and said, "I thought you guys dont help each other out?" I would rather save this guy time and money than the ladder and hopefully one day he will offer the same help to others. I called the vendor and he said he bought every piece of equipment I recommened, a total of $4k. Everyone runs there business differently, I will in no way presume to know how you run yours or tell you how to do it. We have paid all of our employees salary for the last 10 years, and iI think if the big guys at the IRS saw a problem, I am sure they would have informed me by now. Like I said, we have been licensed in Arizona for around 20 years and only re-organized the company back in '96 when I became partner, then again 4 years ago when I bought the company. Our business practices have changed little, other than our prices. When was the last time you helped someone out by giving them advice rather than how not to do something, or ridicule them because they didnt do a job the way you would have done it. It takes stones to put your work out to people you respect in your field, only to have them offer no advice but there oppinion. Lets get back to helping each other out, and keep our OPINIONS to ourselves. Just a thought.

tadpole
05-27-2010, 12:25 AM
You really need to check the Federal 'Exempt' status as applies to your employees. The IRS could care less, wage and hour is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Labor. If you are not in compliance and a disgruntled employee files a complaint against you, it is up to you to prove that you complied with the wage and hour statutes. You may be held libel for back wages plus interest on every employee that currently works for you or HAS EVER worked for you. I have seen companies being forced into bankruptcy by back wage and fines assessments in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is a piece of advice, not an opinion.

DVS Hardscaper
05-27-2010, 05:31 PM
Tadpole is correct.

After your long drawn out lecture on helping others - If you wanna participate on a site this is intended to help others - make sure you KNOW what the hell you're talking about. And as far as helping others - do a search on all of our user names. YOU WILL SEE NEARLY ALL OF US HAVE SHARED ALL SORTS OF HELPFUL STUFF. And you will see that we are quick to hit the *enter* key when something inaccurate beyond a shadow of a doubt is posted.


The IRS's business is taxes. Not labor laws. Two different things. Although, an owner of an alledged super-duper-looper multi-million dollar business already knows this and doesn't need to be schooled......

I know a lady that owns a huge, fine dining restaurant in Frederick MD. She is very greedy and takes advantage of her loyal employees to the fullest extent. I could type for 3 hrs telling all her scemes. Well about 6 years ago her day came. Her employees reported her to the Department of Labor. A few months later she filed for bankruptcy.



,

4Russl5
05-27-2010, 06:54 PM
I wouldn't rely on anybody's opinion here, about laws in my state, federal laws, or taxes. Are any of you CPA's or lawyers? Last time I checked you were all landscapers/hardscapers, or as a mason friend here likes to call us... 'dirt farmers'. I call my attorney or CPA for accurate info in these areas.


Stick to what you know. I plan to.

I swear, I can't even remember what we were talking about!

tadpole
05-27-2010, 07:00 PM
Don't forget to call!!

DVS Hardscaper
05-27-2010, 07:02 PM
LOL - don't get your girdle in a twist there, 4Russie5.

Sometimes we lowly scapers learn all sorts of facts as we wind our way through life and business.

If we refrained from engaging in chat of issues that only certified or licensed professionals could discuss - then the only topic we could engage in would be *How To Stripe A Lawn.......



,

4Russl5
05-27-2010, 07:37 PM
LOL- Thanks for pointing out the wrinkle in my skirt, DBS Hardscaper.

We do learn many things along the way with our shovels. Fiction & truth are pretty blurry in many posts.

I look forward to that discussion.

AzLawnMan
05-27-2010, 07:42 PM
I wouldn't rely on anybody's opinion here, about laws in my state, federal laws, or taxes. Are any of you CPA's or lawyers? Last time I checked you were all landscapers/hardscapers, or as a mason friend here likes to call us... 'dirt farmers'. I call my attorney or CPA for accurate info in these areas.


Stick to what you know. I plan to.

I swear, I can't even remember what we were talking about!

:drinkup:
Well said.

PatriotLandscape
05-29-2010, 01:18 PM
I love it. 4 pages of arguing over some DB's first post and he can't even chime in again if he was even real. damn trolls.