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zanemoseley
05-20-2010, 09:04 AM
So my new yard in TN is doing ok but I am getting a little bit of browning. We have been getting a decent bit of rain but between rains it seems to brown quicker than other yards. I'm not sure if its because the roots aren't super deep yet or if its my soil. My soil is clay heavy with about 1" of top soil. I fertilized twice this spring (.5# of N each) and overseeded. Are their any supplements I should add to the yard to help? The picture below is yesterday before mowing.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/zanemoseley/yard5_19_10.jpg

zanemoseley
05-20-2010, 10:48 AM
One particular suppliment I was looking at was iron in granular form but I know next to nothing about it.

chloeourdog
05-20-2010, 02:38 PM
Acid Rain or acidic soil? Maybe try a treatment of lime from time to time?

biggziff
05-20-2010, 03:11 PM
Do you have a local organization that will test your soil? If not, maybe try one of the online offerings

http://www.agr.state.nc.us/cyber/kidswrld/plant/soiltest.htm

fl-landscapes
05-20-2010, 03:13 PM
tough to tell by a picture but couple suggestions. Check the pH as mentioned and to me your lawn looks hungry, have you fertlized adequatly? If not 1 lb slow release nitrogen per/k might do the trick

zanemoseley
05-20-2010, 03:26 PM
I had the clay portion tested in the fall, it was low in P & K and the PH was slightly low but the ext office did not recommend liming, I will retest in the fall. I fertilized 1/2# N of 15/20/10 in March when I overseeded and another 1/2# of N of 12/6/6 with slow release about a month ago. From what I've read 1# of N in the spring is about all you want to throw out on Tall Fescue, I was planning on doing 2 apps this fall at 1# of N each.

fl-landscapes
05-20-2010, 03:32 PM
tough to tell by a picture but couple suggestions. Check the pH as mentioned and to me your lawn looks hungry, have you fertlized adequatly? If not 1 lb slow release nitrogen per/k might do the trick

adequately...........that sp looks better :hammerhead:

platinum
05-20-2010, 06:54 PM
Get a soil sample done. Most new soil is horrible from the building materials left behind. When you're putting down fert is it just N.. you need some K to get those roots going. Try some starter fert and keep it watered.

Kiril
05-20-2010, 07:41 PM
So my new yard in TN is doing ok but I am getting a little bit of browning. We have been getting a decent bit of rain but between rains it seems to brown quicker than other yards. I'm not sure if its because the roots aren't super deep yet or if its my soil. My soil is clay heavy with about 1" of top soil. I fertilized twice this spring (.5# of N each) and overseeded. Are their any supplements I should add to the yard to help? The picture below is yesterday before mowing.

Didn't we cover this? I would appear you did not follow advice given.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=280578

zanemoseley
05-20-2010, 09:16 PM
Well last year I had a total bomb out, no grass to speak of, no mowing, nothing. I've had good growth this year and have mowed 5 times or so but given my soil I expected to have a few problems.

I took the advice given to me and did what I could with the budget I had. With 1 1/2 acres I didn't have $20,000 to bring in 30 loads of compost and have it tilled along with the other expenses.

Here is a picture of the yard after mowing yesterday. Today I bought some Ferromec AC that has a bit of N was well.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/zanemoseley/Yard5_20.jpg

rainbowss
05-20-2010, 11:50 PM
What height are you mowing?

And don't worry about the others stating pH this, pH that. Geez, reminds me of my doc telling me to get a blood test every week. Cluless as usual.

If grass grows there, your soil is fine.

Kiril
05-21-2010, 08:38 AM
What height are you mowing?

And don't worry about the others stating pH this, pH that. Geez, reminds me of my doc telling me to get a blood test every week. Cluless as usual.

If grass grows there, your soil is fine.

At least you got one part of that right. :hammerhead:

zanemoseley
05-21-2010, 08:39 AM
I mow at about 3", I am going to bump it up to 3 1/2" very soon. I know some of the browning is due to some annual rye dying that I put down to establish the ground and avoid washing (only about 10% was used, maybe 15% max). But the area directly in front of the house has NO rye so I can't use that excuse there, the swale to the left does have some though and you can see its more brown.

Kiril
05-21-2010, 08:50 AM
Well last year I had a total bomb out, no grass to speak of, no mowing, nothing. I've had good growth this year and have mowed 5 times or so but given my soil I expected to have a few problems.

I took the advice given to me and did what I could with the budget I had. With 1 1/2 acres I didn't have $20,000 to bring in 30 loads of compost and have it tilled along with the other expenses.

Here is a picture of the yard after mowing yesterday. Today I bought some Ferromec AC that has a bit of N was well.

Now you have a layer of two drastically different types of soil which will create many problems. Number one rule in soil management .... don't create layers.

Don't know what to tell you other than Ferromec is probably not what you need. Your native soil has plenty of iron ... that is why it is red. Without seeing the site or any tests (including pH) it looks more like an N deficiency to me ... given the soil.

BTW ... after reading what you wrote above in the other replies ... your N applications should be more than sufficient. Fescue doesn't need really need that much N ... 2 lbs/K/season is perfectly acceptable IMO.

One other thing ... stay away from the rye, stick with the fescue.

zanemoseley
05-21-2010, 09:18 AM
Ok I dug up my soil test from last fall, this was before (3) apps of fertilizer.

PH: 6.2
P: 8 (Low)
K 80 (Low)
Ca: 870 (Sufficient)
Mg: 170 (Sufficient)


The rye was just for temporary cover until the fescue took hold, if I remember right I put out like 800lb of Falcon IV fescue and about 100lb of rye.

Kiril
05-21-2010, 09:24 AM
Got any units to go along with those numbers? How did you sample?

zanemoseley
05-21-2010, 09:39 AM
No units right now, I can look later but perhaps PPM, I would guess there is a standard unit for soil test but I could be wrong. I sampled from about 6-8 different sites on the land. I am going to do anther soil test shortly and may get a different place to test it this time. Seems like there was a place in Memphis that was highly recommended.

Kiril
05-21-2010, 09:53 AM
No units right now, I can look later but perhaps PPM, I would guess there is a standard unit for soil test but I could be wrong.

It looks like ppm, but not all labs report in ppm.

I sampled from about 6-8 different sites on the land. I am going to do anther soil test shortly and may get a different place to test it this time. Seems like there was a place in Memphis that was highly recommended.

IMO, that is not sufficient. I would split the site up into three different areas minimum (top, middle, bottom) and take a minimum of 15-20 random samples at 6-8" depth in each area. I assume you are using a core sampler to get your soil?

zanemoseley
05-21-2010, 10:08 AM
Yeah, for no more than samples cost I could do 2-3 testing zones this time. Since i had no grass I just used a shovel to get the samples. This time I'll have to do core testing.

Kiril
05-21-2010, 10:12 AM
Yeah, for no more than samples cost I could do 2-3 testing zones this time. Since i had no grass I just used a shovel to get the samples. This time I'll have to do core testing.

While you are at it, check for compaction issues and note your rooting depth when taking samples.

zanemoseley
05-21-2010, 10:34 AM
I did 2 passes this spring with a Ryan core aerator and plan to do this again in the fall. I'm trying my best to get air, water and nutrients down into the soil and keep it a loose as you can for clay. I will check the root depth. I have a feeling if I can make it through one full summer I may be "in the clear" as my root depth will hopefully keep getting deeper and deeper. I will also continue fertilizing, aerating and overseeding every year.

rainbowss
05-21-2010, 12:35 PM
Keep doing the tests as Kiril suggests, it will get you no where. I will guarantee it. Liming is an internet myth... another gimmick as with Iron/seaweed, etc. If your lawn improves after applying these, you got different issues going on. As in, applying these are only temporary measures! That is like saying a daily dose of Centrum will fix anything. Wrong. 99% don't need it.

Like I said, if your grass grows there, then you have no problem with pH.

Get a flathead and see how far it penetrates.

P.S. Hey Kiril, How many Centrum do you take per day?

zanemoseley
05-21-2010, 01:57 PM
Penetrating with a flathead screwdriver is a bit subjective. With how many pounds of force? A hammer?

rainbowss
05-21-2010, 02:09 PM
There is no exact science. All we are concerned about is drainage and if something is blocking the roots. Not everyone can mow 'high'. Testing numerous locations will be adequate in forming conclusions.

Kiril
05-21-2010, 07:38 PM
Keep doing the tests as Kiril suggests, it will get you no where. I will guarantee it. Liming is an internet myth... another gimmick as with Iron/seaweed, etc. If your lawn improves after applying these, you got different issues going on. As in, applying these are only temporary measures! That is like saying a daily dose of Centrum will fix anything. Wrong. 99% don't need it.

Like I said, if your grass grows there, then you have no problem with pH.

Get a flathead and see how far it penetrates.

P.S. Hey Kiril, How many Centrum do you take per day?

WOW! How can one respond to such pure ignorance!

rainbowss
05-21-2010, 08:31 PM
WOW! How can one respond to such pure ignorance!
But you did! Kiril, keep hold of your ego for once and ignore me.

Kiril
05-22-2010, 08:44 AM
I did 2 passes this spring with a Ryan core aerator and plan to do this again in the fall. I'm trying my best to get air, water and nutrients down into the soil and keep it a loose as you can for clay. I will check the root depth. I have a feeling if I can make it through one full summer I may be "in the clear" as my root depth will hopefully keep getting deeper and deeper. I will also continue fertilizing, aerating and overseeding every year.

IMO, aerating should be followed by a compost top dress, especially in soils that are tight or low in organic matter. If your soil is compacted, I wouldn't be betting on good rooting depth, and it will be a constant problem until fixed. With fescue I like to see at least a 8-12" root zone in clay soils.

Penetrating with a flathead screwdriver is a bit subjective. With how many pounds of force? A hammer?

300 PSI is the upper limit in a soil at field capacity. Ideally you would want it considerably less than that.

Kiril
05-22-2010, 08:48 AM
But you did! Kiril, keep hold of your ego for once and ignore me.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129334&d=1229919202

rainbowss
05-22-2010, 09:23 AM
Why did they lock you up Kiril? :(

8-12"? Really now? You would have to wait at least five growing seasons to see that much growth and that is provided one has optimal conditions for root growth. Wow. Stick to your day job of attaching sprinklers.

Kiril
05-22-2010, 01:17 PM
8-12"? Really now? You would have to wait at least five growing seasons to see that much growth and that is provided one has optimal conditions for root growth.

Displaying your ignorance yet again. :hammerhead:

rainbowss
05-22-2010, 02:09 PM
OKay, I do not have time for kiddie games... at least not now. :laugh:

Hope everything works out for you Zane.

zanemoseley
05-22-2010, 04:11 PM
For inquiring minds that would like to know I was curious and performed the "flathead screwdriver test". I had a 6" flathead I was able to sink it 100% of the way in all places I tried with relative ease. We have had some rain recently. If I tried this test in mid summer I would likely have different results.

I would love to top dress with compost after aerating however I'm not sure of anyone that rents top dressing machines. Also I'm not sure of any reallly good places for compost. The local ag. pavilion collects the horse/sheep/cow manure and sawdust from the stalls and arenas and lays it in piles to compost. They give it out for free but the guy there that loaded some for me told me it doesn't have a ton of nutrients just mainly a bunch of carbon which is good for building soil. I used it about a month ago for starting a flower bed. The rest of the compost I have found locally is mushroom compost which I've heard isn't much good.