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View Full Version : 17.5 hours and I have Z problems


20xd
05-25-2010, 05:09 PM
In november of 09 my son and I went to our local Hustler dealer to look at a z mower.The dealer had a lot full of 05, 06, 07,08 and 09 models all new.We were pointed towards a 06 that was just out of the crate.It was a Z with a 54" xr7 deck and a 27hp Kohler.When they started it, it would only run at full throttle with the choke on, but it would just barely run then.We left and he said he would call me which he did a couple of days later.We went back and for a demo and everything seemed fine.It had a slight rpm surge until it warmed up and then everything was great.We bought the mower at an unheard of deal for a new Z.This mower had less than 1 hour at delivery.At about 11 hours last fall the right drive started slowing to the point that I started adjusting the left hand stop to keep it in a straight line. This kept up and now it pulls to the right and the left side handle stop is at its limit.I put the mower up for the winter in early December and I ran it every 2 weeks until warm throughout the winter.I started cutting with it this April and it did fine for a half of 1 side tank then it started surging and now is to the point that it will not run below 1/2 throttle.It was stored with maybe a gallon in 1 tank and stabil was added plus I run all of my small engines during the winter.This mower has 17.5 hours on it now and I have a weak wheel motor or pump and a surging problem after the mower warms up.Both problems get worse after the mower gets hot.I know I am screwed on the surging problem because dealers love to think they are the only ones capable of buying "good gas".I have explained to the dealer the drive problem and he said it just needed adjusting.I feel it has a pump or wheel motor issue.I am going to take it in and let him look at it.If he fixes the drive issue with an adjustment and it reduces the mower travel speed then I am going to be po'ed to no end.If he charges me for a carb rebuild,which he said he did last year fresh out of the crate I am going to cut ties with him and let the mechanic at the scagg dealer fix it because I know he can.As you can see I only use this mower for personal use.I cut a total of maybe 5 yards, all family,and I bought this thing so it would last.At this rate I am not impressed and neither is my neighbor,he also feels I have a drive problem on the right side. From my experience in mechanics, pneumatics and hydraulics and the fact that my neighbor owns a lawn business,I think I am on to the problem.

mowerconsultant
05-26-2010, 04:04 PM
Your dealer can test the hydro system per our instructions and determine if one pump is weaker than the other or if their is a wheel motor problem.
As to the engine, it sounds like debris in the fuel possibly.
Who is the dealer?
If you can email me the model and serial # and your information and the dealer information I can get my regional service manager to look into this.

Pj

20xd
05-31-2010, 12:29 PM
I dropped the mower off at the dealer on the 27th and explained the problems.The first thing he did was lift the seat and pull the hydro tank cap and tell me the fluid was over full.I told him that was ok but he needed to take that up with his mechanic seeing that it was delivered at that level brand new. I was told they would look at it and call me.The 29th at noon I called the dealer to see about it and he said it was ready.I guess they forgot to call.I went to the dealer and he started it and it ran smooth with no surging.He said the mechanic adjusted the throttle cable to cure the problem.That is a new one on me.Anyway I drove it and it now tracks straight in forward on level ground.Pulled it in reverse and with the handles near even it turns hard,no where close to fixed.So I put it on the trailer and the dealer and I look at it.His mechanic turned the left handle stop in over 3/4 of the way to limit the left pump.He backed the right handle stop out over 3/4 of the way to get full travel on the right pump actuator.When I pushed the right handle forward until it stopped the handle stopped a full 1/4 inch before hitting the stop itself.So we lift the seat and the damper on the right side is bottoming out before the handle reaches the stop.I explained to him this was wrong and asked if they tested the pumps and wheel motors and I never got a answer.I told him I was probably going to take it to someone I knew could fix it to see what kind of response I would get.He didn't really say much as he lifted the gate on my trailer and dropped the pins in.I left.I can't really recommend this dealer to anyone.I have been in business for myself 30 years now.100% of my dollar is made on repeat and referral.If I had the same attitude as this dealer I would have gone under long ago.The trip to the dealer is a 30 mile round trip and I have hauled this thing there 2 times with no results.That means I am in for at least one more trip somewhere to get this fixed.Needless to say I am not happy.I didn't name the dealer or email Hustler so the dealer would have a chance to make it right and he can't for some reason.PJ an email is on the way

mowerconsultant
06-01-2010, 09:04 AM
I dropped the mower off at the dealer on the 27th and explained the problems.The first thing he did was lift the seat and pull the hydro tank cap and tell me the fluid was over full.I told him that was ok but he needed to take that up with his mechanic seeing that it was delivered at that level brand new. I was told they would look at it and call me.The 29th at noon I called the dealer to see about it and he said it was ready.I guess they forgot to call.I went to the dealer and he started it and it ran smooth with no surging.He said the mechanic adjusted the throttle cable to cure the problem.That is a new one on me.Anyway I drove it and it now tracks straight in forward on level ground.Pulled it in reverse and with the handles near even it turns hard,no where close to fixed.So I put it on the trailer and the dealer and I look at it.His mechanic turned the left handle stop in over 3/4 of the way to limit the left pump.He backed the right handle stop out over 3/4 of the way to get full travel on the right pump actuator.When I pushed the right handle forward until it stopped the handle stopped a full 1/4 inch before hitting the stop itself.So we lift the seat and the damper on the right side is bottoming out before the handle reaches the stop.I explained to him this was wrong and asked if they tested the pumps and wheel motors and I never got a answer.I told him I was probably going to take it to someone I knew could fix it to see what kind of response I would get.He didn't really say much as he lifted the gate on my trailer and dropped the pins in.I left.I can't really recommend this dealer to anyone.I have been in business for myself 30 years now.100% of my dollar is made on repeat and referral.If I had the same attitude as this dealer I would have gone under long ago.The trip to the dealer is a 30 mile round trip and I have hauled this thing there 2 times with no results.That means I am in for at least one more trip somewhere to get this fixed.Needless to say I am not happy.I didn't name the dealer or email Hustler so the dealer would have a chance to make it right and he can't for some reason.PJ an email is on the way

Send me a email please, I dont have one from you yet.

Pj

20xd
06-01-2010, 03:00 PM
PJ , I received a call from another local dealer within 3 hours after sending you an email.Thanks for the prompt action. I will try to get it to him this week.I'll keep you posted. Thanks, Ken

mowerconsultant
06-02-2010, 09:06 AM
PJ , I received a call from another local dealer within 3 hours after sending you an email.Thanks for the prompt action. I will try to get it to him this week.I'll keep you posted. Thanks, Ken

You actually were called about 20 minutes after the dealer had your email from me, I was in meetings most of yesterday and only checked my email a few times through out the day.
Terry's is top notch, they will take care of you.

Pj

20xd
06-14-2010, 12:18 AM
I picked my mower up Friday and putting it on the trailer it didn't track straight.I asked an employee about that and he said"you know you can adjust the stops to fix that" so I said, "yea I know". I told him that, while in neutral, one of the pump actuator arms pointed up in the 12 o'clock position and the other was forward at about 11 o'clock.He told me that the pump was assembled like that.I asked him if they should be in sync with each other.He said yes they should.I promptly thanked him and left.When I tested it today the real kicker was in reverse.After 10 min of run time while on flat level ground or concrete I pull the left lever all the way back and to go straight back the right side is maybe 1/2 or a little more, any more and it turns.If I hold it straight in reverse it moves slower than it did when I dropped it off.It is not right.I quit getting upset with people and expressing my displeasure in public years ago, I just mark them off of my referral list and move on to look for a solution.Obviously I will have to buy a new pump and install it myself.To be fair, the CS from PJ was top notch,this is a dealer issue.

mowerconsultant
06-14-2010, 04:26 PM
I am going to be traveling in your area this week, the dealer is one of my stops, I will email him now and inquire about this.

Pj

20xd
06-18-2010, 06:48 PM
I am going to be traveling in your area this week, the dealer is one of my stops, I will email him now and inquire about this.

Pj

Just checking to see if you talked to the dealer. I just mowed my lawn and this Z isn't what it is supposed to be.Looks to me that the swash was tightened down in the right hand pump out of sync.The left drive is extremely slow in reverse and drives faster than the right one in forward.I talked to the mechanic at North Georgia Tractor and he said, based on my info , that something is not right.This guy has 30 years exp and they are a Hustler dealer. They are 30 miles from me but thats life.If I were cutting grass for a living I would be beside myself.I really want to keep this mower and add a bac vac, flex forks and a suspension seat but I need it to be right first.If I need to fix it myself and get rid of it I guess that is what I will do. I was standing in the lot at Terrys Tool on September 10 2009 talking to the Hustler distributor rep the day before I bought this machine and he told me I would be crazy not to buy the 06 hustler at the price I was quoted.He said"same mower,same deck as an 09 and full warranty,don't worry we will take care of you." I left the Scag behind and bought the Hustler from Gerald.Sometimes a deal is truly only a state of mind.

puppypaws
06-20-2010, 09:37 AM
I picked my mower up Friday and putting it on the trailer it didn't track straight.I asked an employee about that and he said"you know you can adjust the stops to fix that" so I said, "yea I know". I told him that, while in neutral, one of the pump actuator arms pointed up in the 12 o'clock position and the other was forward at about 11 o'clock.He told me that the pump was assembled like that.I asked him if they should be in sync with each other.He said yes they should.I promptly thanked him and left.When I tested it today the real kicker was in reverse.After 10 min of run time while on flat level ground or concrete I pull the left lever all the way back and to go straight back the right side is maybe 1/2 or a little more, any more and it turns.If I hold it straight in reverse it moves slower than it did when I dropped it off.It is not right.I quit getting upset with people and expressing my displeasure in public years ago, I just mark them off of my referral list and move on to look for a solution.Obviously I will have to buy a new pump and install it myself.To be fair, the CS from PJ was top notch,this is a dealer issue.

You are an extremely nice person, and seem to be handling this extraordinarily well. Hustler needs to make it their business to educate their dealers in a way this type thing never happens, if it means Hustler needs to put every mechanic that works on their mowers through special training, then so be it. This type business reflects back on Hustler through many customers eyes, the general public feels a company such as Hustler should not incorporate dealers unable to handle these type problems.

The mechanics are the dealer's responsibility, the dealers are Hustler's responsibility, if the mechanic is no good, fire and hire one that is, if the dealer is no good, displace and replace.

mowerconsultant
06-21-2010, 10:25 AM
I did talk to Terry, the owner, he talked to his techs, they adjusted the unit and tested it, they are confident there is not a pump issue.
Terry's is one of the top dealers in the Southeastern U.S. and his techs are top notch and certified in the areas they need to be, including Hustler training.
That being said I will call Terry today and ask him to look into this further.

Pj

puppypaws
06-21-2010, 12:53 PM
I did talk to Terry, the owner, he talked to his techs, they adjusted the unit and tested it, they are confident there is not a pump issue.
Terry's is one of the top dealers in the Southeastern U.S. and his techs are top notch and certified in the areas they need to be, including Hustler training.
That being said I will call Terry today and ask him to look into this further.

Pj

PJ, I think you will agree if the dealer, (Terry) is as top notch as Hustler believes him to be, and these techs are as top notch as you've stated, this conversation would have never taken place. The problem should have under no circumstances occurred from the onset if techs perform Hustler's prep procedures correctly. Then again, we could assume the problem would never have arisen if the mower went through tight quality control in Hustler's manufacturing facility, the type quality control where employee's actually look for, and resolve these type problems.

PJ, people can be thankful you are the type person that will take control and resolve their problems with a dealer, my only contention is your job would be so much easier if dealers and their techs did their job from the onset. There is really no reason for a Hustler mower to leave the manufacturing facility with problems, but if this does happen, there is definitely no reason for this problem to get past the dealer into a customer's hands. Would you agree with this statement?

mowerconsultant
06-21-2010, 03:40 PM
PJ, I think you will agree if the dealer, (Terry) is as top notch as Hustler believes him to be, and these techs are as top notch as you've stated, this conversation would have never taken place. The problem should have under no circumstances occurred from the onset if techs perform Hustler's prep procedures correctly. Then again, we could assume the problem would never have arisen if the mower went through tight quality control in Hustler's manufacturing facility, the type quality control where employee's actually look for, and resolve these type problems.

PJ, people can be thankful you are the type person that will take control and resolve their problems with a dealer, my only contention is your job would be so much easier if dealers and their techs did their job from the onset. There is really no reason for a Hustler mower to leave the manufacturing facility with problems, but if this does happen, there is definitely no reason for this problem to get past the dealer into a customer's hands. Would you agree with this statement?

Puppy,
This mower wasn't purchased from Terry's, Terry's is helping out in a situation where the original dealer sold a 4 year old mower that was still new.
Terry's didnt do the Hustler required set up procedure and inspection because the mower was not purchased from them.

Pj

20xd
06-21-2010, 06:40 PM
First of all,I bought a NEW mower just out of the crate that was built in 06.I just love the car buyer line you threw out to Puppy.LOL It was your rep from the now defunct southern turf or whatever the dist name was in 09/09 that told me what it took to turn me away from the Scag I was looking at when he called me on my cell phone.I guess since I bought a 4 year old mower that was new instead of a new mower my wait in line is going to be longer.My neighbor told me this weekend that I could use his Ferris ztr or a Toro walk until I get my mower straightened out.He is a really good guy and he is in the market for a 60 inch mower as I speak.My neighbor below me told me he would like to mow his lawn as fast as I do and he was willing to go 5 to 6k to purchase a good zero turn.But he has seen me haul mine away to be worked on both times and now he has his doubts.You know what really blows my mind is ,in this economy, that dealers can remain slack as if money was just beating at the door.I watched a video on youtube a few days ago about the hustler factory and the guy on there went on about quality control and detail.Iguess I missed the part about 4 year old mowers that were new not being in that category.Oh well, life goes on,-------without a Hustler

puppypaws
06-21-2010, 09:14 PM
Puppy,
This mower wasn't purchased from Terry's, Terry's is helping out in a situation where the original dealer sold a 4 year old mower that was still new.
Terry's didnt do the Hustler required set up procedure and inspection because the mower was not purchased from them.

Pj

OK, I'll give Terry the benefit of the doubt that he will make the mower as good as new. A number of the problems he is talking about did not come from the fact of it being a new 4 yr. old mower and sit time caused the adjustment problems, fuel problems yes, other problems no. How in the world has a 2006 Super Z been sitting on lots without being sold for such a long period of time, that is almost too much to comprehend? I know there have been several deals offered to get the mower out of inventory.

Sharpcut 1
06-21-2010, 11:33 PM
Make sure both arms are TIGHTLY bolted to the pump, and make sure the gas shocks are returning to neutral correctly. You can check this with the mower off. Pull both arms in, and into reverse. Let them both go at the same time. both should return to neutral at the same rate. if you can't push the arms out to neutral without moving them, then your gas shock is bad or out of adjustment. This will effect the rate of your steering. If everything checks out OK, set the air pressures at 8-10 lbs. all the way around, and, with the mower off, adjust both arms until they contact the stops. Take it for a ride, and if needed, slow down the faster side. Hopefullu it should track straight. A big flat parking lot is the easiest to do this in. The crown in the road will allow your mower to wander one way or the other. Let us know how you make out. My money is on a loose arm or linkage on the pump, if there are no pressure problems. Could also be a loose pulley on the Hydro pump, very rare for this to happen, but I have had one that was loose from the factory, and the key was moving around in the pulley, and wore a larger grove in the pulley, thus not allowing the pump to engage completely. Good luck!!

mowerconsultant
06-22-2010, 10:34 AM
First of all,I bought a NEW mower just out of the crate that was built in 06.I just love the car buyer line you threw out to Puppy.LOL It was your rep from the now defunct southern turf or whatever the dist name was in 09/09 that told me what it took to turn me away from the Scag I was looking at when he called me on my cell phone.I guess since I bought a 4 year old mower that was new instead of a new mower my wait in line is going to be longer.My neighbor told me this weekend that I could use his Ferris ztr or a Toro walk until I get my mower straightened out.He is a really good guy and he is in the market for a 60 inch mower as I speak.My neighbor below me told me he would like to mow his lawn as fast as I do and he was willing to go 5 to 6k to purchase a good zero turn.But he has seen me haul mine away to be worked on both times and now he has his doubts.You know what really blows my mind is ,in this economy, that dealers can remain slack as if money was just beating at the door.I watched a video on youtube a few days ago about the hustler factory and the guy on there went on about quality control and detail.Iguess I missed the part about 4 year old mowers that were new not being in that category.Oh well, life goes on,-------without a Hustler

Ken,
I didnt mean to offend you in my post, I'm sorry if it read that way.
I was just letting Reid know that Terry's wasn't the selling dealer, Reid posted and it sounded like he thought Terry's was the original dealer.
I see that your taking the mower to North GA next week, please let me know if there is anything I can do for you.

Pj

20xd
06-22-2010, 08:05 PM
I spoke with Alan Elder in Fla. Monday, he was about as upset with this situation as I am.Tuesday morning Rodney Barnes with Cooks called me and offered to have Terry' Tool work on it again.I have learned
in my line of work that if someone can't fix it this week they probably can't fix it next week.I opted to take it to North GA Tractor and he made a call on my behalf.I am not boasting about anything but just let me lay this out on real terms for you.#1-The trip to the original dealer was a waste,30 mile round trip plus fuel and 1.5 hours away from the job.#2-The trip to TERRY' Tool was a waste,50 mile round trip plus fuel and 2.5 hours away from the job.Trip 3 will be a 50 mile round trip plus fuel and another 2.5 hours lost pay.Not including the first trip to my original dealer which should have resolved this,that is about 9 gallons of fuel at 2.75 and 5 hours at 75.00 per.For a grand total of 399.75 I am out because I trusted that Hustler had a solid dealer chain.Sometimes it is hard for me to contain my emotions.Work is hard to contract in this economy and I am offering a 25% rate cut just to get it.So when a company as large as hustler starts costing me some of it, it really gets to me.I asked Rodney for a favor to help even the deal a little,I did not ask for anything free nor do I want it costing the dealer anything.He told me that it was over his head but he would check and see if it could be done.If you want to know call him, but I am not getting my hopes up,If Hustler has shown me anything,it's not to get them up.

puppypaws
06-24-2010, 04:30 PM
I spoke with Alan Elder in Fla. Monday, he was about as upset with this situation as I am.Tuesday morning Rodney Barnes with Cooks called me and offered to have Terry' Tool work on it again.I have learned
in my line of work that if someone can't fix it this week they probably can't fix it next week.I opted to take it to North GA Tractor and he made a call on my behalf.I am not boasting about anything but just let me lay this out on real terms for you.#1-The trip to the original dealer was a waste,30 mile round trip plus fuel and 1.5 hours away from the job.#2-The trip to TERRY' Tool was a waste,50 mile round trip plus fuel and 2.5 hours away from the job.Trip 3 will be a 50 mile round trip plus fuel and another 2.5 hours lost pay.Not including the first trip to my original dealer which should have resolved this,that is about 9 gallons of fuel at 2.75 and 5 hours at 75.00 per.For a grand total of 399.75 I am out because I trusted that Hustler had a solid dealer chain.Sometimes it is hard for me to contain my emotions.Work is hard to contract in this economy and I am offering a 25% rate cut just to get it.So when a company as large as hustler starts costing me some of it, it really gets to me.I asked Rodney for a favor to help even the deal a little,I did not ask for anything free nor do I want it costing the dealer anything.He told me that it was over his head but he would check and see if it could be done.If you want to know call him(770-474-5200) but I am not getting my hopes up,If Hustler has shown me anything,it's not to get them up.

I'm really sorry you are having to deal with this type aggravation, it honestly should not be that way, it is just a matter of people knowing and performing their jobs. I can only suppose these just never acquired the knowledge.

OK, I'll give Terry the benefit of the doubt that he will make the mower as good as new. A number of the problems he is talking about did not come from the fact of it being a new 4 yr. old mower and sit time caused the adjustment problems, fuel problems yes, other problems no. How in the world has a 2006 Super Z been sitting on lots without being sold for such a long period of time, that is almost too much to comprehend? I know there have been several deals offered to get the mower out of inventory.

PJ, I gave Terry the benefit of the doubt, and listened as you posted Terry being a top of the line dealer with top notch well trained (Hustler trained, I believe you mentioned) technicians. What is the next excuse you can provide for some of these dealers and mechanics. There is a breakdown somewhere between Hustler and far too many dealers selling and servicing their product, you hear of this type thing quite often. Hustler needs to send their dealers and service technicians to Chad and let them learn from his operation, this would be the best training they could ever receive. Would you agree with this? I can vouch that Chad has what would be equal to the best (and better than 95%) Hustler mechanics in the country.

You are a good man to try and keep peace between customers and some of these box store mentality dealers Hustler has in their lineup.

mowerconsultant
06-28-2010, 02:45 PM
PJ, I gave Terry the benefit of the doubt, and listened as you posted Terry being a top of the line dealer with top notch well trained (Hustler trained, I believe you mentioned) technicians. What is the next excuse you can provide for some of these dealers and mechanics. [/QUOTE]

Reid,
No excuses, Terry's is a top notch dealer with top notch techs, very large Hustler dealer, in fact one of the largest in the southeast.
I would put his techs and shop up against any dealer, Hustler or not, anywhere in the U.S.

Pj

puppypaws
06-28-2010, 05:49 PM
PJ, I gave Terry the benefit of the doubt, and listened as you posted Terry being a top of the line dealer with top notch well trained (Hustler trained, I believe you mentioned) technicians. What is the next excuse you can provide for some of these dealers and mechanics.

Reid,
No excuses, Terry's is a top notch dealer with top notch techs, very large Hustler dealer, in fact one of the largest in the southeast.
I would put his techs and shop up against any dealer, Hustler or not, anywhere in the U.S.

Pj[/QUOTE]

I understand where you are coming from, but you must admit there has to be a reason Terry has not performed to what I would think should be Hustler standards. I am sorry, but I believe in holding people accountable for their actions, this customer is not being treated as if Hustler wants his repeat business, therefore Terry needs to be held accountable, it is totally in his control.

20xd
06-28-2010, 11:25 PM
PJ, I gave Terry the benefit of the doubt, and listened as you posted Terry being a top of the line dealer with top notch well trained (Hustler trained, I believe you mentioned) technicians. What is the next excuse you can provide for some of these dealers and mechanics.

Reid,
No excuses, Terry's is a top notch dealer with top notch techs, very large Hustler dealer, in fact one of the largest in the southeast.
I would put his techs and shop up against any dealer, Hustler or not, anywhere in the U.S.

Pj[/QUOTE]

I can see since I am not a commercial account that some don't mind insulting my intelligence!!! I am sure Terry is a top notch dealer and a great guy.But the fact remains----my mower doesn't track right!! Every time I log on and read these post' I am even more baffled at just who is more important, the dealer or the customer? You guys at Hustler obviously have a lot to learn about what a good tech is. In my mind a good tech would be someone that gets a heat case and makes sure everything is correct before he lets the job out, in my case he failed. But I understand, in dealing with hustler the customer is wrong until he takes his own time and money to prove he is at least partly right. I didn't expect much out of this forum after I talked with Cooks anyway. I guess I was right in that assessment.

mowerconsultant
06-30-2010, 04:16 PM
I can see since I am not a commercial account that some don't mind insulting my intelligence!!! I am sure Terry is a top notch dealer and a great guy.But the fact remains----my mower doesn't track right!! Every time I log on and read these post' I am even more baffled at just who is more important, the dealer or the customer? You guys at Hustler obviously have a lot to learn about what a good tech is. In my mind a good tech would be someone that gets a heat case and makes sure everything is correct before he lets the job out, in my case he failed. But I understand, in dealing with hustler the customer is wrong until he takes his own time and money to prove he is at least partly right. I didn't expect much out of this forum after I talked with Cooks anyway. I guess I was right in that assessment.

Ken,
The customer is # 1, as you can see by this forum, this is what I do in addition to my regular duties as a territory sales manager with Hustler.

I have personally handled all the posts in this forum and in other forums on LS for over 10 years now, our intention is to provide information and help if needed in areas where needed.

I am sorry you are reading my posts as you are, I am not meaning to offend you at all, in fact I have been in contact with Rodney, Alan and the dealers during this whole process, and have visited with 2 out of the 3 dealers in person in the last 2 weeks.

I am sorry you weren't satisfied with the first 2 dealers, as I hear today, your mower is ready for pick up from the 3rd dealer, if it is not to your satisfaction this time I will personally handle the return of your mower for what you paid for it and put you in a brand new freshly built from the factory equivalent.

I am closing this thread as it seems to be a debate instead of a solution to your problem, feel free to post or email me the results of your mower when you pick it up / mow with it.