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LCCaptain
06-01-2010, 10:07 AM
I have seen several post on here discussing grass sticking under their turbo force deck but nobody ever came back and stated how and if they fixed the problem. I am having the same problem. I bought a 40" WB used (my mistake) and started practicing in my own yard. Just cutting an inch off the top and it was clumping. Wet, dry, damp, baffle open or closed, the deck is getting completely loaded with grass. IS THERE A SOLUTION THAT ANYONE HAS FOUND OUT? I did not buy it from a dealer so I have to pay for all repairs and don't want to throw money away of experiments.

integrityman
06-01-2010, 10:44 PM
Capitan- I own a 40" too. The drier the grass the better. That said, Ive not owned a w/b unit that doesnt get clumped up. I just clean it out every so often. It doesnt get clogged up in the summer and fall when the grass has less moisture content. I have a tiaingular pointed paint scraper that does a great job. (I drive it onto the trailer ramp with half the deck hanging out. )What I don't understand is that my Turboforce ZTR stays exceptionally clean.

zanemoseley
06-01-2010, 11:38 PM
Funny you mention it, I have a new 40" Toro WB hydro that will get a clogged deck fairly easy if the grass is wet at all. I use the mower for my yard only and have only used it about 6 times but in wet/moist conditions I have to occasionally cut off the the blades then re-engage them and to shoot out packed grass. I thought commercial mowers were suppose to be better with these kind of things. I really don't wanna scrape my mower ever time I use it but bugs seem to like the grass and flock to my garage, lets just say I'm not a fan of flies in my garage along with the stink of decaying grass. I'm all ears for any tips.

mowerbrad
06-01-2010, 11:45 PM
FLUID FILM!!!!

....seriously, it will prevent grass from building up as quickly. Get a couple cans of this stuff and start building it up on your deck. Get your deck as clean as you can and spray the whole underside of the deck, let it sit for a day, scrape what is left under there and reapply again. Let it sit over night and try it out the next day and see what you think. I bet it will help quite a bit.

Then just spray the deck every now and then, like when you change the blades.

lifetree
06-02-2010, 12:23 AM
Very interesting thread here ... this is a rare complaint about the Turbo Force decks !! I don't see that too often here on LS.

topsites
06-02-2010, 12:26 AM
Yes, grass will stick to the mower.

The drier the grass the better.

I can agree there.

That said, Ive not owned a w/b unit that doesnt get clumped up. I just clean it out every so often.

Exactly, pretty much.

Very interesting thread here ... this is a rare complaint about the Turbo Force decks !! I don't see that too often here on LS.

Got used to it.

Swampy
06-02-2010, 12:33 AM
I found out with Tubro Force decks that if your cutting under wet conditions is to just knock out the grass by raising and lowering the deck, or lifting the front of the walkbehind off the ground a few inches and dropping it.

Its probably not recommend to do so but I found it easier then scraping decks.

topsites
06-02-2010, 12:36 AM
I found out with Tubro Force decks that if your cutting under wet conditions is to just knock out the grass by raising and lowering the deck, or lifting the front of the walkbehind off the ground a few inches and dropping it.

Its probably not recommend to do so but I found it easier then scraping decks.

That's what I do, although I usually try to find an area just off the turf like near
the woods to do it, in most cases all I have to do is disengage the blades,
sometimes lifting and dropping the deck helps as well.

LCCaptain
06-02-2010, 04:19 PM
I took it to the car wash the other day after the last time I used it and blasted the underneath of the deck. After drying I sprayed siliconce sray under it and left it sit since. I just didn't know if there was something wrong with my machine, wrong blades ect. I haven't used it since. It is my back up mower and will stay that way if it is only performs well under the perfect conditions. Heck, I wouldn't be able to cut grass before 11:30 around here because of dew. Thanks for the support and info fellas.

lilweeds
06-02-2010, 08:37 PM
I am trying out the mid lift blades this week. I'll fill ya in if it makes a difference.

PTP
06-02-2010, 09:20 PM
I believe that this is a 40" Turboforce problem. I have a 36" and don't have the problem that you are describing.

I believe that it has to do with the fact that it is a 3 blade design on a relatively small deck. My 2 36" machines are the best cutters I have for the wet grass. They are far less prone to clumping than my other machines. I believe the 48 and 52 inch machines do not have the clumping/packing problem either although I don't have personal experience with them. The blades on those machines are significantly longer and they seem to be able to handle the clippings better.

WVDpoker
06-02-2010, 11:10 PM
Thought the buildup seemed ridiculous. guess it wasn't just me. i just stopped scrapeing it off-only when i sharpen blades.

Lbilawncare
06-03-2010, 01:20 AM
I have a 40" also. It only clogs if the grass is really wet. I think it is because of the gussets around the spindle housing that catch all of the grass. I am convinced that if Toro would put a smooth spindle on their mowers they would discharge a lot better.

trippy
06-03-2010, 01:06 PM
my dealer took out a baffle,,toro advised him to do so after i complained about the major clumping on my 48 commercial ztr

LCCaptain
06-03-2010, 08:13 PM
my dealer took out a baffle,,toro advised him to do so after i complained about the major clumping on my 48 commercial ztr

Did that help?

integrityman
06-03-2010, 09:41 PM
I have a 40" also. It only clogs if the grass is really wet. I think it is because of the gussets around the spindle housing that catch all of the grass. I am convinced that if Toro would put a smooth spindle on their mowers they would discharge a lot better.

A smooth spindle housing would make a big difference. Even with a l;ot of grass sticking to the inside of the deck I get a great cut and great discharge. To me its not a huge deal to clean it out.

ajeaajea
06-04-2010, 12:04 AM
I have had the 40" toro for two years now. It is so annoying to have to clean the deck everytime you want to cut a yard. It clumps even when the grass is dry. Does taking the baffel out completely help at all?

trippy
06-04-2010, 03:17 PM
yes,,,after the baffle was removed the problem was solved,,,

mark123
06-04-2010, 08:56 PM
yes,,,after the baffle was removed the problem was solved,,,
Did the cut quality suffer?

I've got about 10 hours on my Toro TF40 walk behind and I'm not seeing any major issues. The deck does get a bit packed but it's hard to tell most of the time, it just keeps cutting and throwing clippings out the chute. If some clumps break loose and get discharged I did notice that running over them again with the baffle in the fully open "C" position means that it just rethrows the same clumps out without chopping them. I've been running mine in the "A" (smallest opening) position, even in wet and tall grass conditions, and it seems to very rarely throw clumps. If it does throw a clump in the "A" position it's fine enough to grab and throw in to the uncut grass to hit on the next pass.

I'm going to try a bagger for wet grass to see if it makes a difference.

McFarland_Lawn_Care
06-05-2010, 12:45 AM
I have a 2007 48" turbo force ztr and here's what I have done. I originally had LOTS of issues with build up on the deck. I have tried Every type of blade, high, med, low, heavy duty, standard, gator blades etc. First I discovered I was ordering the wrong sized blades - they were only 1/8 of an inch short, but that's all it takes to let a little grass build up on the inside of the deck and then it just snowballs from there. I also scraped the deck down and put on 3 coats of fluid film and Liquid Wrench on it over the winter which all "soaked" into the deck or dried on by the spring. By using high lift heavy duty blades, keeping the baffle wide open, and spraying the underside during the off season, I am getting a HUGE difference in cut and only need to scrape the deck about once a week after a very wet lawn. If you try the fluid film method, you can't spray it on and then go mowing and expect it to work great, it has to dry and build up I believe. I hope some of this helps - it was driving me CRAZY all last season. =) Good luck...

yardguy28
06-05-2010, 08:02 AM
every deck is going to have grass stick. the only time i can get away with not scrapping the bottom of the deck in the evenings is in the dry of summer. and even then there is always a little build up somewhere.

i couldn't really tell if you are asking about it because its leaving clumps in the turf your mowing or just because you don't wanna scrap the bottom of the deck.

i scrap the bottom of my deck every evening on my main mower.

LCCaptain
06-05-2010, 11:13 AM
every deck is going to have grass stick. the only time i can get away with not scrapping the bottom of the deck in the evenings is in the dry of summer. and even then there is always a little build up somewhere.

i couldn't really tell if you are asking about it because its leaving clumps in the turf your mowing or just because you don't wanna scrap the bottom of the deck.

i scrap the bottom of my deck every evening on my main mower.
Well, I'll tell you this. I bought it and topped my already cut grass and it was a mess under there. The grass wasn't soaked with water. I was looking for a walk behing to save some time push mowing the spots where the ztr won't go. A little scraping is understandable but this is severe build up. Literally loaded from deck to blade deep with grass. I did however take my WB to the car wash and spray the deck and spindles clean, allowed to dry and soaked it down with silicone spray and let it sit for a couple days. I used it yesterday with a world of difference. It even started to rain a little while I was cutting and no clumps or bulk droppings with I disengauged the blades.

cgaengineer
06-05-2010, 02:53 PM
I have the same 40" mower, the problem is not the TF deck, its the size of the deck...its small. I cut wet grass and sometimes it sticks and sometimes it doesnt...I will say that the more weeds in the lawn the worse it will stick. My solution to the problem is to find a place on the lawn where you can take a mower poop (tree line) and shut off and turn on blades.

cgaengineer
06-05-2010, 02:57 PM
A smooth spindle housing would make a big difference. Even with a l;ot of grass sticking to the inside of the deck I get a great cut and great discharge. To me its not a huge deal to clean it out.

The gussets on the spindles to tend to capture grass, but it is good to know that even if you hit a 1" rebar you would only be out a blade.

integrityman
06-05-2010, 03:39 PM
I have the same 40" mower, the problem is not the TF deck, its the size of the deck...its small. I cut wet grass and sometimes it sticks and sometimes it doesnt...I will say that the more weeds in the lawn the worse it will stick. My solution to the problem is to find a place on the lawn where you can take a mower poop (tree line) and shut off and turn on blades.

"Mower poop"- Funny....very fitting.

yardguy28
06-05-2010, 05:04 PM
Well, I'll tell you this. I bought it and topped my already cut grass and it was a mess under there. The grass wasn't soaked with water. I was looking for a walk behing to save some time push mowing the spots where the ztr won't go. A little scraping is understandable but this is severe build up. Literally loaded from deck to blade deep with grass. I did however take my WB to the car wash and spray the deck and spindles clean, allowed to dry and soaked it down with silicone spray and let it sit for a couple days. I used it yesterday with a world of difference. It even started to rain a little while I was cutting and no clumps or bulk droppings with I disengauged the blades.

well i'm glad you found something that helped you out. i have a 52" turbo force deck and i don't have that sort of problem. the only time i have ever found a deck extremely loaded with grass is the first season i tried gator blades. i used them with the mulch kit on my 36" exmark and it was a situation like what you described. i went back to using my mulching blades with the mulch kit and never again did i have the problem.

I have the same 40" mower, the problem is not the TF deck, its the size of the deck...its small. I cut wet grass and sometimes it sticks and sometimes it doesnt...I will say that the more weeds in the lawn the worse it will stick. My solution to the problem is to find a place on the lawn where you can take a mower poop (tree line) and shut off and turn on blades.

so your saying a 40" deck or smaller is going to get like that? i find that hard to believe.

now the only turbo force deck i've had is the 52" one on my grandstand but i have a 36" exmark deck that doesn't load with grass like that except in the situation i described above.

mark123
06-05-2010, 05:40 PM
... so your saying a 40" deck or smaller is going to get like that? i find that hard to believe. ...
I think he means there is almost no room for anything other than the spindle housings under the deck. Seriously, there is only about an inch between the spindle housings and the baffles.

cgaengineer
06-05-2010, 05:42 PM
Yes the smaller the deck the worse it will plug...the exit opening is smaller.
Posted via Mobile Device

yardguy28
06-05-2010, 07:47 PM
I think he means there is almost no room for anything other than the spindle housings under the deck. Seriously, there is only about an inch between the spindle housings and the baffles.

Yes the smaller the deck the worse it will plug...the exit opening is smaller.
Posted via Mobile Device

well i disagree because i have a 36" exmark metro and there is plenty of room between the spindle housing and the baffle. and sometimes my 36" mower has less plugging than the larger 52" mower.

mark123
06-05-2010, 08:53 PM
well i disagree because i have a 36" exmark metro and there is plenty of room between the spindle housing and the baffle. and sometimes my 36" mower has less plugging than the larger 52" mower. We're talking about the 40" Turboforce deck on which the spindle housings are 9-3/8" in diameter and the blades are 14" so that leaves only about 2" between the spindle housing and the baffle. Add to that the ribs on the baffle that collect grass. Disagree all you like but even though my 1" statement was off (I hadn't figured the dimensions then) the theory that the spindle housings are causing the clogging is sound.

The 36" is a 2-blade design. Consider that the 40" is a 3-blade design and you've got more space taken up by spindle housing.

Grubrunner
06-05-2010, 09:19 PM
I have a 2007 48" turbo force ztr and here's what I have done. I originally had LOTS of issues with build up on the deck. I have tried Every type of blade, high, med, low, heavy duty, standard, gator blades etc. First I discovered I was ordering the wrong sized blades - they were only 1/8 of an inch short, but that's all it takes to let a little grass build up on the inside of the deck and then it just snowballs from there. I also scraped the deck down and put on 3 coats of fluid film and Liquid Wrench on it over the winter which all "soaked" into the deck or dried on by the spring. By using high lift heavy duty blades, keeping the baffle wide open, and spraying the underside during the off season, I am getting a HUGE difference in cut and only need to scrape the deck about once a week after a very wet lawn. If you try the fluid film method, you can't spray it on and then go mowing and expect it to work great, it has to dry and build up I believe. I hope some of this helps - it was driving me CRAZY all last season. =) Good luck...

How does it "soak" into a nonporous metal surface?

yardguy28
06-05-2010, 11:22 PM
We're talking about the 40" Turboforce deck on which the spindle housings are 9-3/8" in diameter and the blades are 14" so that leaves only about 2" between the spindle housing and the baffle. Add to that the ribs on the baffle that collect grass. Disagree all you like but even though my 1" statement was off (I hadn't figured the dimensions then) the theory that the spindle housings are causing the clogging is sound.

The 36" is a 2-blade design. Consider that the 40" is a 3-blade design and you've got more space taken up by spindle housing.

ok i stand corrected, geez.......*trucewhiteflag*

i didn't know the 40" deck was a 3 blade design.........

cgaengineer
06-05-2010, 11:39 PM
We're talking about the 40" Turboforce deck on which the spindle housings are 9-3/8" in diameter and the blades are 14" so that leaves only about 2" between the spindle housing and the baffle. Add to that the ribs on the baffle that collect grass. Disagree all you like but even though my 1" statement was off (I hadn't figured the dimensions then) the theory that the spindle housings are causing the clogging is sound.

The 36" is a 2-blade design. Consider that the 40" is a 3-blade design and you've got more space taken up by spindle housing.

That's a good point too.
Posted via Mobile Device

cgaengineer
06-05-2010, 11:40 PM
How does it "soak" into a nonporous metal surface?

Steel is like a sponge man...:)
Posted via Mobile Device

McFarland_Lawn_Care
06-06-2010, 05:37 AM
How does it "soak" into a nonporous metal surface?

C'mon! are you serious? Obviously it doesn't soak into the metal, that is why I put it in quotes. You understand what I mean, it just kinda dries up and soaks into any small amount for dirt or grass residue that remains on the deck.

mark123
06-08-2010, 03:55 PM
... I've got about 10 hours on my Toro TF40 walk behind and I'm not seeing any major issues. The deck does get a bit packed but it's hard to tell most of the time ...
Well, I'm going to update my post and my opinion after this morning's mowing. I've got to say that I've used my Turboforce40 on lawns last week and it seemed fine, today it was borderline unusable. It's not just that the deck packed with clippings it's that it discharges huge clumps into the lawn. I tried the baffle in each position, the smallest opening gave the best results but it was still clumping. The widest opening gave the worst results with constant clumping. I had to cut my first lawn of the day 5 times just to make it look acceptable. I couldn't make it look good, just acceptable.

I took it into the shop and they upped the RPMs on the motor so I'll give it a go tomorrow but I'm not hopeful. Even on a lawn that only has three days of growth on it (about 1/2") looks like a mess with this mower.

trippy
06-08-2010, 04:49 PM
ask your dealer to call toro,,,they will be advised to remove a baffle,,been there done that,,,my commercial 48z i was sooooo mad at clumping and my dealer resolved the issue 100% with baffle removed

mark123
06-08-2010, 05:48 PM
ask your dealer to call toro,,,they will be advised to remove a baffle,,been there done that,,,my commercial 48z i was sooooo mad at clumping and my dealer resolved the issue 100% with baffle removed
That may be the next step. I soaked it with silicone tonight. I'll see if that makes any difference.

May I ask if removing the baffle affected the cut quality? Does it stripe as well? Does it discharge the grass as well? Thanks for the tip.

cgaengineer
06-08-2010, 05:52 PM
So you no longer have an adjustable baffle?
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-08-2010, 06:11 PM
Who cares if there's an adjustable baffle if it doesn't work. :p

Seriously though, I'm glad my customer wasn't home because I came up with some never before heard of names for my mower this morning. :realmad:

I hope the neighbors didn't hear me. :o

yardguy28
06-08-2010, 07:25 PM
Well, I'm going to update my post and my opinion after this morning's mowing. I've got to say that I've used my Turboforce40 on lawns last week and it seemed fine, today it was borderline unusable. It's not just that the deck packed with clippings it's that it discharges huge clumps into the lawn. I tried the baffle in each position, the smallest opening gave the best results but it was still clumping. The widest opening gave the worst results with constant clumping. I had to cut my first lawn of the day 5 times just to make it look acceptable. I couldn't make it look good, just acceptable.

I took it into the shop and they upped the RPMs on the motor so I'll give it a go tomorrow but I'm not hopeful. Even on a lawn that only has three days of growth on it (about 1/2") looks like a mess with this mower.

i don't now much about this 40" deck people are using but i do know about the turbo force deck. they work great for me.

5 times??? and i thought i was obsessive about my quality. the most i'll cut a lawn is double. if it doesn't look good after a second pass forget it.

mark123
06-08-2010, 08:00 PM
Well, it's not my customer's fault that my mower isn't mowing properly. I'll see how it does tomorrow with the deck slicked up.

cgaengineer
06-08-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm just asking, because if it makes a difference when wet I will remove it.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-08-2010, 10:14 PM
I'm just asking, because if it makes a difference when wet I will remove it.
Yeah, I understand. :) I'm also wondering if just the adjustable part is removed or the entire baffle. Isn't the rest of the baffle welded in place? Removing it would be quite a feat.

cgaengineer
06-08-2010, 10:16 PM
Yes, it would require a plasma cutter and grinder to remove the remainder of the baffle.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-08-2010, 10:23 PM
Yes, it would require a plasma cutter and grinder to remove the remainder of the baffle.
Well, I'm going to have a look at it tomorrow to see what's involved in removing the adjustable baffle and then if it won't void any warranties maybe I'll try it just as a test. I'm waiting for a word back from Toro before I start removing parts all willy-nilly like.

cgaengineer
06-08-2010, 10:34 PM
I wouldn't worry about the warranty...that deck will last forever...I grind mine on curbing all the time...shoot me a pm and let me know how it does.
Posted via Mobile Device

cgaengineer
06-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Oh, I think its one pivot bolt and the clamp bolt and its off...I suspect it won't make much difference.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-08-2010, 10:45 PM
... I suspect it won't make much difference.Yeah, trippy was talking about a 48" deck. I think I'm going to have to make a cover for the spindle housing fins to make them smooth. I wonder if that will help.

Wrap 'em in foil. :laugh:

cgaengineer
06-08-2010, 11:06 PM
I actually think that the fins are not the problem, yes they become filled with grass, but the majority of the stuck grass is at the point where the circular pieces of metal are welded to the deck which makes sense since the grass is slung into those corners.
Posted via Mobile Device

lifetree
06-08-2010, 11:43 PM
Very interesting information about the Turbo Force 40" deck !!

mark123
06-09-2010, 05:41 PM
After talking with the dealer and a rep I'm not going to remove anything from my mower. Instead I am going to try some lower lift blades. I'll attempt with the mid-sails and if it makes an improvement I'll try the low-sail blades. Then determine the best match for my conditions.

Personally, I don't care if the grass get thrown over 4 mower passes or not, like it does with the high-sail blades, as long as the lawn looks right. In fact, the grass being blown so far has always been a bane to me causing me to have to blow grass out of mulch beds and sweep clippings off of the side of houses.

I've also ordered a bagging kit which should help contain any further clumping.

cgaengineer
06-09-2010, 05:58 PM
Man I was so pissed at my 40" Toro today, halfway through a one timer and the bottom dropped out, a 1 hour job turned into 2.5 hours.
Posted via Mobile Device

cgaengineer
06-09-2010, 07:42 PM
I'm going to install a hose connection on my Toro to clean it out, but I am interested in your finding with the low lift blades.
Posted via Mobile Device

yardguy28
06-09-2010, 07:51 PM
After talking with the dealer and a rep I'm not going to remove anything from my mower. Instead I am going to try some lower lift blades. I'll attempt with the mid-sails and if it makes an improvement I'll try the low-sail blades. Then determine the best match for my conditions.

Personally, I don't care if the grass get thrown over 4 mower passes or not, like it does with the high-sail blades, as long as the lawn looks right. In fact, the grass being blown so far has always been a bane to me causing me to have to blow grass out of mulch beds and sweep clippings off of the side of houses.

I've also ordered a bagging kit which should help contain any further clumping.

you act like this is something out of the ordinary we don't all deal with every day.

anyone who side discharges needs to pay attention where they are aiming the open side and how close they get to sides of houses and mulch beds.

i side discharge and use nothing but high lift blades. dealing with keeping grass out of mulch beds and off the side of the house is a daily thing for me. it's not that hard either. if you have to make a pass close to the side of the house or mulch bed drop the throttle down. i also mow with the discharge chute on and down so that makes a huge difference.

mark123
06-09-2010, 08:28 PM
you act like this is something out of the ordinary we don't all deal with every day.
Just quiet, you.

cgaengineer
06-09-2010, 08:29 PM
I don't have a prob getting grass in beds either...
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-09-2010, 08:39 PM
I don't have a prob getting grass in beds either... I guess I'd have to show you an example of a no win situation. In one example, the grass is either going to hit the customer's house or the neighbors. In another there are two mulch beds with one mower pass between them. You're either going to hit one or the other or not mow that grass. Sometimes, I just choose to keep striping continuity and take the hit on having to blow grass out of the beds.

cgaengineer
06-09-2010, 08:41 PM
I did have one lawn that had a bed configured in a way that no matter how you cut grass would get in the beds...it was a teardrop shape.
Posted via Mobile Device

yardguy28
06-09-2010, 08:57 PM
I don't have a prob getting grass in beds either...
Posted via Mobile Device

i don't have that problem for the most part. i've come up with my way of keeping grass out of the mulch beds and off the sides of houses. i stated it in my previous post. if i need to have the discharge side facing the side of the house or mulch bed and i'm close enough grass will get blown on the side of the house or in the mulch bed i drop the throttle down. works like a charm.

I guess I'd have to show you an example of a no win situation. In one example, the grass is either going to hit the customer's house or the neighbors. In another there are two mulch beds with one mower pass between them. You're either going to hit one or the other or not mow that grass. Sometimes, I just choose to keep striping continuity and take the hit on having to blow grass out of the beds.

theres a simple solution........

it's called a 21 inch push mower :hammerhead: or string time that area......

mark123
06-09-2010, 09:06 PM
... theres a simple solution........

it's called a 21 inch push mower :hammerhead: or string time that area...... It's just not efficient use of time though. It's just quicker and easier to use the blower you already need to get out anyway and make a few swipes across the beds. Getting a mower from the truck for two or three passes or using a whacker doesn't save time.

Hitting a house with clippings only happens once in a while so it's not worth carrying an extra mower for a problem that may not happen. I only carry the 21" when I have a lawn where I can't use anything else.

Let's all be good netizens and get back on topic. Deal? :)

Toro, clumps, let's solve it.

cgaengineer
06-09-2010, 09:14 PM
I don't ever use my 21" mower...I have a Snapper commercial that's waisting away in my shed.
Posted via Mobile Device

yardguy28
06-09-2010, 10:12 PM
It's just not efficient use of time though. It's just quicker and easier to use the blower you already need to get out anyway and make a few swipes across the beds. Getting a mower from the truck for two or three passes or using a whacker doesn't save time.

Hitting a house with clippings only happens once in a while so it's not worth carrying an extra mower for a problem that may not happen. I only carry the 21" when I have a lawn where I can't use anything else.

Let's all be good netizens and get back on topic. Deal? :)

Toro, clumps, let's solve it.

I don't ever use my 21" mower...I have a Snapper commercial that's waisting away in my shed.
Posted via Mobile Device

my 21 is always with me. there isn't a day that goes by that i don't get that thing out for something. a few rows here, a few rows there, sometimes a whole yard.

all of my mowers go with me to every job. my 52", 36" and 21 incher. i'd hate to go back to the shop to get the 36" because my 52" broke down. this way it's already on the trailer and available.

mark123
06-09-2010, 10:19 PM
http://images.imaginekitty.com/forum/SOT.jpg

:laugh:

cgaengineer
06-09-2010, 10:24 PM
With a 40" mower who needs a 21"?

Anyway, I was angry today with my 40" taking dumps all over the place...but the lawn I mowed was not a very nice one anyway...the customer never noticed or even cared.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-09-2010, 10:40 PM
With a 40" mower who needs a 21"?Yeah, that's why I leave it at home except on the lawns the 40 just won't do. I have one that's in the woods and shaded. No roots. Just walking on it tears the turf. The 40" would basically rototill the place with the wheels. :laugh:

Anyway, I was angry today with my 40" taking dumps all over the place...but the lawn I mowed was not a very nice one anyway...the customer never noticed or even cared.
I seem to worry about how everything looks a lot more than the customers, too.

cgaengineer
06-09-2010, 10:45 PM
In my case if they let it grow as long as they did it was obvious they didn't care, I take pride in my work, but when the grass is 12" tall you have to realize what you are working with and who for.
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mark123
06-10-2010, 06:46 PM
I ran all day with the Atomic blades on. I did today's and yesterday's routes due to the all day rain yesterday. No clumps but these lawns were fine last week it's my first lawn on Tuesday's route that had me "renaming" the Toro Company. :lol:

The deck got a bit packed with the Atomics, but not as much as before. I am not sure the silicone spray helped a whole lot since the deck still got packed. I'll have to attribute the lack of clumping to the Atomic blades. They did throw an amazing amount of loose clippings out of the discharge though. I had to double cut a few lawns to disperse them. It looked like a gray blanket covering the yard. I don't think the Atomics are the answer. I can't wait to try the mid and low sail blades.

cgaengineer
06-10-2010, 07:20 PM
The Atomics don't cut when turning...I have a set and the only thing they are goof for is dry leaves.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-10-2010, 07:36 PM
The Atomics don't cut when turning...I have a set and the only thing they are goof for is dry leaves.
Well, I'll have plenty of leaves to chop up in the fall so I may as well hold onto these.

I'll surely let you know how it works out with the mid and low-sail blades when they come in.

yardguy28
06-10-2010, 07:57 PM
With a 40" mower who needs a 21"?

Anyway, I was angry today with my 40" taking dumps all over the place...but the lawn I mowed was not a very nice one anyway...the customer never noticed or even cared.
Posted via Mobile Device

i'm not sure where a 40" would be a demand in the first place. i think it's an unusual size IMO.

i run 52"s 36"s and 21"s.......

a 40" could never replace my need for a 21".......

the common sizes around here are 21, 36, 48, 52, 60 and 72.......

lifetree
06-10-2010, 09:20 PM
The Atomics don't cut when turning...I have a set and the only thing they are goof for is dry leaves.
Posted via Mobile Device

When you say Atomic blades, is this the same thing that I refer to as Gator blades ??

mark123
06-10-2010, 09:34 PM
When you say Atomic blades, is this the same thing that I refer to as Gator blades ??
Atomic blades are Toro's version of gator blades. They have a toothed fin. I think Atomics are beefier than gators.

trippy
06-10-2010, 09:35 PM
guys and gals,,,i had so much clumping when i first got my 48 comm ztr that i wanted my dealer to take it back,,he called toro and toro wanted my mower in the shop,,my dealer removed the left side baffle,,not the adjustable baffle, and welded-bolted a baffle that was not as round-took the curve out of it...my personal mechanic/friend that works there noticed how congested the deck was and was not surprised that grass wouldnt fly out......i know what its like to have grass accumulate in wet conditions,,,but this was different--mow 50 ft lenght and clogged...kill pto and mess on ground,,,,fyi

lifetree
06-10-2010, 09:45 PM
... my dealer removed the left side baffle,,not the adjustable baffle, and welded-bolted a baffle that was not as round-took the curve out of it ...

Well thanks for the information, however, you neglected to say whether it fixed the problem ... and whether you still have the machine ??

mark123
06-10-2010, 09:53 PM
Well thanks for the information, however, you neglected to say whether it fixed the problem ... and whether you still have the machine ??
He said earlier in this thread that it fixed the problem.

cgaengineer
06-10-2010, 10:47 PM
i'm not sure where a 40" would be a demand in the first place. i think it's an unusual size IMO.

i run 52"s 36"s and 21"s.......

a 40" could never replace my need for a 21".......

the common sizes around here are 21, 36, 48, 52, 60 and 72.......

What's unusual about it? It fits through a 48" gate unlike a 48" mower. I have no need at all on any of my properties for a 21" mower...don't even know why I wasted $800 on it. Wanna buy it?
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cgaengineer
06-10-2010, 10:48 PM
Atomic blades are Toro's version of gator blades. They have a toothed fin. I think Atomics are beefier than gators.

Never seen Gators before but Atomics are Toro standard thickness of 1/4" steel.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-12-2010, 09:37 AM
What's unusual about it? ...
It's different and must be SHUNNED! Shunned, I say! SHUNNED! :laugh:

I've got 3 lawns to complete today and after that I'm going to powerwash my deck and try some Fluid Film. My mid and low sail blades haven't come in yet but I want to try the Atomics on the lawn that gave me the worst, curse-word inducing clumps anyway. That's on my Tuesday route.

Another scenario I thought of is that this mower doesn't drop a single clipping downward. It's too efficient for it's own good. Everything goes up and out. If nothing sticks to the deck it gets whipped out the discharge chute. This could be why, when it is dry, that the lawn gets covered in clippings. I'm not sure fluid film will help in this case except in making it easier to clean up the mess.

I just don't want to have to cut twice and I'm praying that changing the blades really helps.

cgaengineer
06-12-2010, 11:52 AM
In my experience Fluid Film lasts about 5 minutes...YMMV. I have tried other products and they are about the same...a coating of lard or Crisco would probably last longer.
Posted via Mobile Device

cgaengineer
06-12-2010, 11:53 AM
Oh and you know when you hear that buzzing noise is fully clogged.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-12-2010, 03:24 PM
In my experience Fluid Film lasts about 5 minutes...YMMV. ... I figured as much but as it was a sample I'm out nothing by trying it.

There's just too much going on under a mower deck for anything to last very long. Even the paint starts to go away after a few mowings. My expectations are low so if anything happens at all I'll be happy.

mark123
06-12-2010, 03:28 PM
Oh and you know when you hear that buzzing noise is fully clogged.
Yeah, the packed clippings start hitting the blade lift. bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! :dizzy:

cgaengineer
06-12-2010, 03:30 PM
I think you will see a difference with the low sails.
Posted via Mobile Device

yardguy28
06-12-2010, 04:08 PM
What's unusual about it? It fits through a 48" gate unlike a 48" mower. I have no need at all on any of my properties for a 21" mower...don't even know why I wasted $800 on it. Wanna buy it?
Posted via Mobile Device

its unusual to me because it's not a common size in my neck of the woods.

people around here have gates that either a 21", 36" or anything bigger will fit through. at least of all the people i've come across anyway.

if the 52" doesn't fit then the 40"s not gonna fit either and you either need the 36" or the 21 incher. just like those people that have 32" walkbehinds. if my 36" doesn't fit neither will a 32".

no i don't want to buy your 21 incher. i have a toro commercial 21 i bought new this year for $500. but i do use the 21 incher more than i'd like to.

lilweeds
06-12-2010, 05:25 PM
I figured as much but as it was a sample I'm out nothing by trying it.

There's just too much going on under a mower deck for anything to last very long. Even the paint starts to go away after a few mowings. My expectations are low so if anything happens at all I'll be happy.

I don't know what he's talking abut but a good app of fluid film will last weeks. The sample can won't be enough for you to see results.

cgaengineer
06-12-2010, 05:30 PM
I don't know what he's talking abut but a good app of fluid film will last weeks. The sample can won't be enough for you to see results.

Do you have this particular mower?
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mark123
06-12-2010, 05:43 PM
... The sample can won't be enough for you to see results.
It seemed to put a really nice coating all over the bottom of the deck. I wish I could get it around here.

cgaengineer
06-12-2010, 06:13 PM
One can will treat a 40" twice.
Posted via Mobile Device

lilweeds
06-13-2010, 01:29 PM
There isn't a JD dealer near you? They all stock it. To be perfectly honest I order it online, it's cheaper.

mark123
06-13-2010, 01:33 PM
The closest is around 20 miles away according to their web site. I'd like to be able to hit the local walmart and walk out with some but I'd be willing to order online. Regional Truck seems to have the better pricing.

mark123
06-14-2010, 05:41 PM
OK, here's the deal so far. I used the atomic blades for almost a full route. They performed a slight bit better than the original high-sail blades. The deck still became very packed but there was much less clumping. The clumps that came out were lighter and easily dispersed with a second pass. The biggest problem is that this mower leaves a huge mass of clippings on the top of the lawn with these blades. It's not clumps, it's just a massive covering of thick clippings that needs to be re-cut. I did not try the atomics on my worst lawn because I received a set of low-sail blades today and put them on. I went over two lawns that were cut on Saturday and one that I cut earlier today with the atomic blades. Also, it had rained between this morning's cut and the second.

The one I cut today the low-sail blades seemed to move the clipping and make the lawn look cleaner but this was a second cut of the day.

The lawns I cut on Saturday I noticed two issues, with the low-sail blades. First, there is not a lot of vacuum under the deck. Using high-sail blades if the deck pushes a long blade of grass to the left the vacuum would pull it back under the deck for cutting. This doesn't happen with the low-sail blades so some blades on the end of the deck just don't get cut. Basically, you lose an inch of cutting on the left side and trimming around trees and fences isn't going to happen. The second issues is that it still discharges a massive amount of clippings that blanket the lawn. This still requires re-cutting and I'm not happy about that at all. Perhaps the mid-sail blades will be a better fix. I hope they come in soon.

I can't be 100% sure about the clumping and packing issue since the lawns didn't really need cut but after these three lawns there were zero clumps and almost no grass under the deck. Even the fins on the spindle housings were clean.

Tomorrow is my worst lawn. I'll report back afterward.

cgaengineer
06-14-2010, 05:48 PM
Can't wait for the report...sounds promising.
Posted via Mobile Device

yardguy28
06-14-2010, 07:47 PM
after reading the new posts from today it just occured to me that i have never in my life had the amount of trouble you are having and i've never heard of anyone else having this kind of problem.

these are serious thoughts (not just me being a jerk or thinking you are lying) but it makes me wonder what type of grass are you cutting. how old is the mower. did you purchase it new or used. how long have you had the mower.

now i realize we are talking about different sizes of decks when i mention my own experiences but i've run every kind of blade under the 52" deck i have and the cuts are always excellent. sure the gator blades mulch it up a little better than the high lift blades but the high lift blades bag and suck up lawn debris a little better. but i've never had a blade that didn't give a good cut unless they were dull blades.

am i missing something, do i need to go back to post 1? i can't comprehend why anyone would have this much trouble PERIOD. with any size deck, any style of blade, on any type of grass that is cut on a weekly basis.

cgaengineer
06-14-2010, 09:16 PM
The 40" toro is a tiny deck, the spindle take up almost as much room as the inside of the deck...a 52" has a huge amount of room inside compared to the 40".
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-14-2010, 10:07 PM
after reading the new posts from today it just occured to me that i have never in my life had the amount of trouble you are having and i've never heard of anyone else having this kind of problem.Unless you've read about other owners of the Turboforce 40, I guess. I've never had any such problems with any other mower in my life so I can understand what you're saying.
these are serious thoughts (not just me being a jerk or thinking you are lying) but it makes me wonder what type of grass are you cutting. how old is the mower. did you purchase it new or used. how long have you had the mower.I'm cutting your typical north eastern lawn consisting of mainly KBG, Ryes and fescues (with some crap mixed in such as tall fescue and creeping bentgrass). The mower is now twelve days old. I purchased it new and have had it the entire 12 days.
now i realize we are talking about different sizes of decks when i mention my own experiences but i've run every kind of blade under the 52" deck i have and the cuts are always excellent. sure the gator blades mulch it up a little better than the high lift blades but the high lift blades bag and suck up lawn debris a little better. but i've never had a blade that didn't give a good cut unless they were dull blades.Same here, except with this mower.

am i missing something, do i need to go back to post 1? i can't comprehend why anyone would have this much trouble PERIOD. with any size deck, any style of blade, on any type of grass that is cut on a weekly basis.Try a Turboforce 40 and then get back to us. Seriously.

cgaengineer
06-14-2010, 10:27 PM
Fescue is bad mark, but you should try weekly cuts of thick wet bermuda...great mower as long as the gras is only slightly wet from dew, but after a rain its bad.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-15-2010, 01:56 PM
Can't wait for the report...sounds promising. Using the low-sail blades the mower clumps later in the lawn.

I suppose the promising results from yesterday were due to the lawns not needing cut. I'm taking it into the dealer today to have a chat about the situation.

lifetree
06-15-2010, 07:28 PM
... I'm taking it into the dealer today to have a chat about the situation.

What kind of "chat" will that be ?? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

mark123
06-15-2010, 08:50 PM
What kind of "chat" will that be ?? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
The one where I give him back the mower and he gets me one that works.

I returned it this afternoon and while we work out the details he gave me circa 1990 44" Toro walkbehind to use to feed the family. I tried it out at the shop and made three immaculate passes in the lawn. Then the dealer said "let me see what you mean about this 40" mower" and he made two passes beside the ones I just made and completely covered my stripes with crap. It was like taking a beautiful painting and throwing poop on it. Hey, some people may like "modern art" but not me.

cgaengineer
06-15-2010, 08:54 PM
Interesting...I am lucky most of my cutting is when its dry.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-15-2010, 09:01 PM
Interesting...I am lucky most of my cutting is when its dry. It just that in my case a dry lawn is still a mess not as many clumps but that thick covering over the lawn.

mark123
06-15-2010, 09:09 PM
Question concerning my returning the machine. The dealer said the 36" would cost the same as what I paid for the 40". That doesn't sound right to me. What do you say?

cgaengineer
06-15-2010, 09:11 PM
Don't get a 36", get the 48" instead...I think the 36 and 40 share the same carrier frame...same machines, different deck.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-15-2010, 09:13 PM
Don't get a 36", get the 48" instead...I think the 36 and 40 share the same carrier frame...same machines, different deck.
A 48" won't fit on my truck though. :(

cgaengineer
06-15-2010, 09:14 PM
A 48" won't fit on my truck though. :(

Oh hell, stay with 40...the 36 will plug just like the 40. Look uo a member on here alltoro4me, he has the 36.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-15-2010, 09:23 PM
Oh hell, stay with 40...the 36 will plug just like the 40. Look uo a member on here alltoro4me, he has the 36.
This guy: alltoroformetwo?

cgaengineer
06-15-2010, 09:25 PM
I just sent him a text with a link...he has a 36". He should reply shortly if his house is not floating away.
Posted via Mobile Device

All_Toro_4ME
06-15-2010, 09:33 PM
What's all this wonderful talk about the TF deck? Yes it clogs but mainly April through early June during heavy rain and early spring growth. I'm sure it's nowhere near what the quick clogs though otherwise you'd see a ton of threads on the TF deck clogging like you do on the bop deck. Honestly this is the first thread or issue I've seen with TF deck. You shouldn't have issues with dry grass clogging or widrows. Scrape your deck and change your blades. The moisture in the grass can't be any worse then here, hell we just had over 10" of rain yesterday and my wb cut fine today. Ground was pretty soft but no major issues. I'm not sure your dealer gave you accurate information about 36 vs 40 price. There is some price difference but not much. Last thing I'd say to try is get a couple of cans of off brand cooking spray from wmt. Scrape, wash and clean your deck then spray it.
Posted via Mobile Device

PTP
06-15-2010, 09:47 PM
No, the 36" deck will not clog like the 40" deck. I mowed 5 acres today of wet 2-week grass and there was hardly a clump and the deck did not even think of clogging. There was grass all over me and the mower but the 36" performs like a champ.

The difference is the 2 blade design vs. the 3 blade design on the 40.

mark123
06-15-2010, 09:56 PM
No, the 36" deck will not clog like the 40" deck. I mowed 5 acres today of wet 2-week grass and there was hardly a clump and the deck did not even think of clogging. There was grass all over me and the mower but the 36" performs like a champ.

The difference is the 2 blade design vs. the 3 blade design on the 40.That's encouraging. Thanks for the info. May I ask what sort of grass you're cutting?

I certainly don't want to settle for a mower that adds x1.6 hours to my lawns. I really would like to move up in size but it just won't fit on my truck. A 52" sounds peachy.

cgaengineer
06-15-2010, 10:01 PM
No, the 36" deck will not clog like the 40" deck. I mowed 5 acres today of wet 2-week grass and there was hardly a clump and the deck did not even think of clogging. There was grass all over me and the mower but the 36" performs like a champ.

The difference is the 2 blade design vs. the 3 blade design on the 40.

That's right...I remember someone mentioning this.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-15-2010, 10:06 PM
That's right...I remember someone mentioning this.
It was trippy, the baffle removing guy, that had issues with his 48" that you maybe thinking of. :)

cgaengineer
06-15-2010, 10:19 PM
That's encouraging. Thanks for the info. May I ask what sort of grass you're cutting?

I certainly don't want to settle for a mower that adds x1.6 hours to my lawns. I really would like to move up in size but it just won't fit on my truck. A 52" sounds peachy.

For $500 you can get a trailer...
Posted via Mobile Device

cgaengineer
06-15-2010, 10:20 PM
It was trippy, the baffle removing guy, that had issues with his 48" that you maybe thinking of. :)

Did he mention the 36" having only 2 blades?
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-15-2010, 10:24 PM
Did he mention the 36" having only 2 blades?
No, that was me. :)

cgaengineer
06-15-2010, 10:26 PM
No, that was me. :)

Yeah, and that's the reason it doesn't plug like the 40" the spindles on the 40" consume most of the underside of the deck.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-15-2010, 10:42 PM
Please excuse the typo in the earlier post. The loaner isn't a 1990 mower, it's a 1999, about the same year as my good ol 36" that passed away 13 days ago. :(

Frue
06-16-2010, 07:39 AM
Ok here is a great example of what I posted in the quick thread. This is a problem with R&D cutting the back fields in august at 2 in the afternoon. TORO Again I challenge you to give your mowers to the guys in the field who are putting on the hours to demo before bringing them to sale.

Here is my take R&D cutting at the most oppurtune times! Or they new about the deck problems and said screw it we will fix it on the fly!

Toro I could save you a ton of money! I put about 750 to 900 hours a year on one machine. Give me your prototypes and I will cut one week and give you the report and the machine. I have made this offer to quick and other companies but nothing back. Just fire your R&D departments and Pay a few of us to check it for you!

Its hard for me to believe your R&D department could of missed this! Exmark Triton could have been avoided, quick, ferris deck, john deer 800 series, and countless other companys.

STOP CUTTING THE BACK FIELDS IN AUGUST AT 2:00 IN THE AFTERNOON FOR YOUR TESTTING. We cut fertilzed lawns startting in the morning! Also quit making these lame videos of machines only taking a inch off. We generally are taking of 3-9 inches of grass a week. All machines cut good taking off a inch.

Yours trully
Johnny!

mark123
06-16-2010, 07:41 AM
Frue, we already are the R&D department. We just have to pay for the privilege. :dizzy:

cgaengineer
06-16-2010, 07:44 AM
Frue, we already are the R&D department. We just have to pay for the privilege. :dizzy:

This is partly true, but not only do you have to pay, but you also rarely ever get a machine fixed even if you find a problem.
Posted via Mobile Device

brucec32
06-16-2010, 05:19 PM
I have the 40" toro deck as well. It did seem to clump more than others. I was cutting a lot of rye with it which tends to be really succulent, but when I did cut Fescue with it (discharging) it wasn't horrible. I mostly mulch with that machine and it does a nice job on Bermuda lawns with the exception of leaving a small windrow on the discharge side when the grass is wet and has been growing rapidly. For small lawns it's fine, as the time to disperse those is minimal. Still much better than discharging in terms of appearance. The deck does contour well to terrain and is great for smallish properties. But in my opinion for this type of lawn it will not replace a 21" if the lawn is not very flat. I tried today on a postage stamp and it left some serious yellowed areas where it dipped into the stems when mowing at 1.5".

Anyway, putting on the mulch kit removes the original baffles inside so maybe it clumps less becasue of that.

The mower has minimal suction power with high lift or mulching blades, so those mowing tall floppy grass probably won't like it. My Lazer stands the stuff right up. This mower does not.

I can see how if you're mowing northern turf at 3-4" you'd have little use for this mower as currently configured. It's main strength is the smooth cut at low heights and if you're not using for that there are probably better machines.

Leaves a nice cut on 1/4 acre lots of Bermuda, though. And the 40" width makes it productive enough to do a bigger lot from time to time w/o losing too much time. But I can see how the short blades and tight deck space that work to its advantage in my type of turf would be a big negative on other grasses.

mark123
06-16-2010, 06:03 PM
Well, I got to run a full day with the loaner (44" Super Flow System). Let me tell you it was like a revelation of how the world should be. On my first lawn of the day the dear old widow came out and said "I see you got your mower working better. The stripes are back." :laugh: I nearly wet myself over that. I had to tell her I returned the mower because it probably did make stripes but then it covered them with clumps and clippings. They were there, you just couldn't see them.

Then I was cutting another lawn that for some dumb reason I let the lady talk me into skipping last week. So I was cutting two weeks of growth and doing fine. The old used mower worked properly with zero issues. Then it started pouring rain! I just said "Let's roll!" and kept on mowing. I did manage to get two little baby clumps during the rain. I just kicked them into the next pass and they were gone. I only cut each lawn ONE TIME today! I was so happy I mowed a high part of a customer's neighbor's lawn for him.

I just wanted to say this because wet or dry the 40" does not produce quality cuts like any other Toro. In fact, this morning my dealer wanted to compare the two mowers again stating that the conditions weren't equal (which makes no sense, it was side by side 30 seconds apart. So I went ahead and played the game. The 44" hit the mark and the 40" took a dump all over the place like a baby without a diaper.

You know what the worst part of all of this is? I hate when they treat me as if I'm the only one that's ever had this problem. That's just insulting.

PierreCiCi
06-16-2010, 07:41 PM
I was at a dealer today looking at purchasing this same mower. Thanks for all the information. I believe I will pass on the 40" Toro. I'm assuming you have Model: 30486 with the 18hp Kawasaki engine with the twin levers?

lifetree
06-16-2010, 10:19 PM
Well, I got to run a full day with the loaner (44" Super Flow System). Let me tell you it was like a revelation of how the world should be. ...

Well, this is interesting ... does this mean that the SFS deck does better than the Turbo Force on all deck sizes, generally speaking ?? Or, does the SFS simply perform better than the Turbo Force on the 40" size ??

mark123
06-16-2010, 10:23 PM
Well, this is interesting ... does this mean that the SFS deck does better than the Turbo Force on all deck sizes, generally speaking ?? Or, does the SFS simply perform better than the Turbo Force on the 40" size ?? I've never had a Turboforce in any other size so I can't answer.

I took the Turbo Force Challenge. I guess I lost. :laugh:

cgaengineer
06-16-2010, 11:08 PM
On dry turf my 40" cuts great and leaves nothing behind that I have to clean up but when its wet its terrible...I have been writing it off as normal until other threads about...I have never owned or used another mower so I really had nothing to compare.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-17-2010, 07:07 PM
Well, the loaner I got broke down three times today. Twice it was the blade clutch and just now a drive belt snapped. I quit for the day!

While I was in the first time the dealer had taken out the baffles on the Turboforce 40. It had absolutely no effect on the cut. We compared it to a zero turn with the 44" SFS deck and the results were exactly as before. So that answers that question; removing the baffle does not help this machine.

I talked to a representative that's bringing me a 36" to demo on my worst lawn this Tuesday. I'm so far behind because of this broke down old mower (that just happens to cut like a dream) I don't know if I'll make it. :p

I was talking with him he seemed to make excuses for it before I've even seen it so I'm not hopeful. I'm going into it with an open mind and willing heart though. I'll give it an honest review.

mark123
06-17-2010, 07:25 PM
... I'm assuming you have Model: 30486 with the 18hp Kawasaki engine with the twin levers?
What does the twin levers have to do with the cut quality? :hammerhead:

No, I use the T-bars. Always.

mark123
06-17-2010, 07:28 PM
On a side note, I have no idea how you guys can stand to ride a zero turn all day. I think my kidneys are going to strike for unfair working conditions for the 5 minutes I was on that thing. :p

PierreCiCi
06-17-2010, 07:40 PM
It has nothing to do with the cut quality. I was just curious which model it was.

cgaengineer
06-17-2010, 07:42 PM
On a side note, I have no idea how you guys can stand to ride a zero turn all day. I think my kidneys are going to strike for unfair working conditions for the 5 minutes I was on that thing. :p

I feel the same way, that's why I am going to purchase a 52" T2 with the TruTrak on it.
Posted via Mobile Device

cgaengineer
06-17-2010, 07:47 PM
Mark, they make both T2 and Tbar.
Posted via Mobile Device

mark123
06-17-2010, 08:07 PM
It has nothing to do with the cut quality. I was just curious which model it was. Yeah, the model I returned was a 30096. :)

PierreCiCi
06-17-2010, 08:16 PM
Ok Thanks. I was just curious because I'm in the market for a new Toro 36" Hydro or an Exmark 36" TTHP. I like the twin levels on the Toro because I have three Wright Standers and the controls are similar. Good luck with your situation.

mark123
06-17-2010, 08:24 PM
Ok Thanks. I was just curious because I'm in the market for a new Toro 36" Hydro or an Exmark 36" TTHP. I like the twin levels on the Toro because I have three Wright Standers and the controls are similar. Good luck with your situation.
Thanks! :)

Make sure you read on Tuesday afternoon. I'll let you know if the 36" Turboforce is better than the 40". After reading the response here I'd say there is a very good chance of the 36" being the better mower.

PierreCiCi
06-17-2010, 08:29 PM
Yes I will definitely wait until then. I have my fingers crossed that the 36" will perform well for you. If so, then I will more than likely purchase the Toro.

mark123
06-17-2010, 09:09 PM
I did forget to post some pics of the 40" cut results.

Here are some of the clumps after making 10 passes across the lawn. Keep in mind this is the low-sail blades, the ones that clumped the least.
http://boughterslawncare.com/images/clumps.jpg

Here are the clippings that cover the rest of the lawn. This happened with every blade style but was worst with the Atomics and low-sail.
http://boughterslawncare.com/images/clippings.jpg

No matter how you spin this, I just can't call that a quality cut. If the 36" doesn't do that, I will take it home on the spot.

I wasn't manning the camera or I would have got some better shots.

cgaengineer
06-17-2010, 09:42 PM
The more weeds in the lawn the worse the clumping is...
Posted via Mobile Device

yardguy28
06-17-2010, 09:44 PM
The more weeds in the lawn the worse the clumping is...
Posted via Mobile Device

depending on what type of grass your cutting of course......:dancing:

cgaengineer
06-17-2010, 09:49 PM
depending on what type of grass your cutting of course......:dancing:

Didn't seem to matter if it was fescue or bermuda...
Posted via Mobile Device

All_Toro_4ME
06-18-2010, 08:55 AM
Yes I will definitely wait until then. I have my fingers crossed that the 36" will perform well for you. If so, then I will more than likely purchase the Toro.

Is this an issue all the time with the 40''? I've read this entire thread and can't seem to figure out why such problems are occurring.

I did forget to post some pics of the 40" cut results.

Here are some of the clumps after making 10 passes across the lawn. Keep in mind this is the low-sail blades, the ones that clumped the least.
http://boughterslawncare.com/images/clumps.jpg

Here are the clippings that cover the rest of the lawn. This happened with every blade style but was worst with the Atomics and low-sail.
http://boughterslawncare.com/images/clippings.jpg

No matter how you spin this, I just can't call that a quality cut. If the 36" doesn't do that, I will take it home on the spot.

I wasn't manning the camera or I would have got some better shots.

Are these wet lawns mark? If so then you will very likely see a difference in the 36''. The only time I experience anything similar to this with my 36'' is early April through early June when the precip in the grass is extremely high. Even then it's more of a widrow along the left side of the deck, not clumps. The deck does clog but only during this timeframe. How recent are these pics? If your dealer will let you demo one for the same cutting conditions, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. If you install the mulch kit with the baffles, the finished product will appear as if you bagged it. Good luck.

mark123
06-18-2010, 08:41 PM
Is this an issue all the time with the 40''? Yes. That's the issue. If it were intermittent I could work with that. It's just constant, either clumping or blanketing. Then when you get about three passes looking ok by going over them and over them and over them you make another pass and it craps all over those nice passes. Makes you say dirty words.

Are these wet lawns mark? If so then you will very likely see a difference in the 36''. The only time I experience anything similar to this with my 36'' is early April through early June when the precip in the grass is extremely high. Even then it's more of a widrow along the left side of the deck, not clumps. The deck does clog but only during this timeframe. How recent are these pics? If your dealer will let you demo one for the same cutting conditions, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. If you install the mulch kit with the baffles, the finished product will appear as if you bagged it. Good luck.
Thank you. The pics are from June 15, 2010 (this past Tuesday). It really doesn't seem to matter if the lawn is wet or dry. Results are similar either way. I may go with a larger deck because the 44" I'm using now is really helping me get everything done much faster. Maybe a 52" if I can swing the cash for the price difference.

I'm not sure a mulch kit would be a great idea up here in the north with these over-fertilized lawns that grow about 9" in 7 days. :dizzy:

yardguy28
06-18-2010, 08:46 PM
Is this an issue all the time with the 40''? I've read this entire thread and can't seem to figure out why such problems are occurring.



Are these wet lawns mark? If so then you will very likely see a difference in the 36''. The only time I experience anything similar to this with my 36'' is early April through early June when the precip in the grass is extremely high. Even then it's more of a widrow along the left side of the deck, not clumps. The deck does clog but only during this timeframe. How recent are these pics? If your dealer will let you demo one for the same cutting conditions, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. If you install the mulch kit with the baffles, the finished product will appear as if you bagged it. Good luck.

i can't speak for toro's 36" deck or larger with mulch kit. but in my experiences and personal opinion there is NOT a mulch kit set up on any more PERIOD that makes a lawn look like it was bagged.

i have an exmark 36" with mulch kit and it does not look bagged. it looks mulched. i had a 52" exmark with mulch kit and the same thing. it looked mulched. i have a 21 inch commercial toro bag or mulch option. with the mulch block in it looks mulched.

i'm not saying a mulched lawn looks bad because thats not true. they look good. but they sure don't looked bagged.

clydebusa
06-18-2010, 08:55 PM
Last couple of years I quit mulching, just blow out the side and run over it. Only problem is when it gets too high. Then you have to make a couple clean up passes. But for the most part this works better with the bermuda I deal with in Tulsa.

yardguy28
06-18-2010, 09:47 PM
Last couple of years I quit mulching, just blow out the side and run over it. Only problem is when it gets too high. Then you have to make a couple clean up passes. But for the most part this works better with the bermuda I deal with in Tulsa.

the only mulching i do is on the 36" and 21 incher. other wise it's as you said, blow it out the side and run over it.

for me it keeps the option of bagging open when needed. and with the rain we've had this year its nice to be able to pull up to a house and throw the bagger on if the grass is a little longer than normal.

i only use the 36" on 2 backyards and the 21 incher gets used maybe half a dozen times a week. so i'm mainly side discharging with my 52"

lifetree
06-19-2010, 10:12 PM
...I took the Turbo Force Challenge. I guess I lost. :laugh:

I'd say it looks that way !!

yardguy28
06-20-2010, 09:31 PM
after coming across this thread http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=320821 i'm really confused about the 40" deck.

someone in this thread said it only has 2 blades, 2 spindles. in the linked thread the pics show it having 3 blades, 3 spindles.

mark123
06-20-2010, 09:38 PM
... someone in this thread said it only has 2 blades, 2 spindles. in the linked thread the pics show it having 3 blades, 3 spindles.I'm sure it was specifically stated in this thread that the 40" has 3 blades and spindles, because it does. The 36" has 2 blades.

PierreCiCi
06-20-2010, 09:38 PM
I was just looking at the Toro 40" mower last week. It does have three blades. The 36" has two blades.

yardguy28
06-20-2010, 09:43 PM
I'm sure it was specifically stated in this thread that the 40" has 3 blades and spindles, because it does. The 36" has 2 blades.

then i really don't see how clumping could be that much of an issue

mark123
06-20-2010, 09:44 PM
then i really don't see how clumping could be that much of an issueTry one. Until then ...

yardguy28
06-20-2010, 10:04 PM
Try one. Until then ...

no i'll take your word for it.......

i wouldn't have a use for one in the first place........

lifetree
06-20-2010, 10:29 PM
then i really don't see how clumping could be that much of an issue

Then you need to re-read the thread ... the reason why was clearly stated along the way !!

mark123
06-20-2010, 10:38 PM
Then you need to re-read the thread ... the reason why was clearly stated along the way !!
I also have a few more theories that I haven't posted yet. :p

brucec32
06-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Yeah, I cut some grass that was a little tall and the darn thing actually bogged down enough to kill the engine (15hp kawi) even mowing at a crawl. I've never had that happen in recent years. There simply doesn't seem to be enough space inside the deck to handle things. (mulch kit is on)

I'd say the deck was packed (making a buzzing noise) within about 50' on the first pass. The deck is no good on anything but regularly mowed Bermuda lawns in my experience. I'd definitely look at something else for northern turf and Tall Fescue. Still, for how I use it it does a pretty nice job.

mark123
06-22-2010, 03:34 PM
Well, here's the scoop. The Toro rep brought me a Turboforce 36 to try today. I purposely abused it so that it would make a mess. It had rained this morning and was sprinkling during the demo, the grass was extra tall and weedy and I lowered the deck too low (2.5") for the turf type and conditions. Even with this blatant attempt to skew the results :p the 36" performed like a mower should. I took it home with me.

I did return to the lawn raised the deck up to 3" and finished the lawn. This mower is faster than the 40", probably due to it being a few pounds lighter and it has a 16HP engine while the 40" had a 15HP engine. Even with losing 4" of mower width I believe the extra speed will compensate.

The deck had a little bit of grass under it but it was not completely packed full like the 40" after 5 or 6 passes.

Keep in mind these are all preliminary, first-day results but it looks good. So far I'm pleased with the 36".

yardguy28
06-22-2010, 08:09 PM
so now you have a lawn mowed partly at 2.5" and partly at 3".......

bet the client will love that......:hammerhead:

mark123
06-22-2010, 08:12 PM
so now you have a lawn mowed partly at 2.5" and partly at 3".......

bet the client will love that......:hammerhead: It's already grown 1/2" since I cut it this morning. Needs cut again.

The point is I found a solution to the Turboforce 40" problem; replace it with something else. Solved!

cgaengineer
06-22-2010, 08:53 PM
My 40" has a 17hp.
Posted via Mobile Device

Frue
06-22-2010, 09:59 PM
It's already grown 1/2" since I cut it this morning. Needs cut again.

The point is I found a solution to the Turboforce 40" problem; replace it with something else. Solved!

Happy to hear it! Now clean that deck and put some fluid film on it.

lifetree
06-22-2010, 10:25 PM
... The Toro rep brought me a Turboforce 36 to try today. I purposely abused it ... It had rained this morning and was sprinkling during the demo, the grass was extra tall and weedy ... Even with this blatant attempt to skew the results :p the 36" performed like a mower should. I took it home with me. ...

Congratulations ... was this just a simple swap ??? The 36" machine for the 40" machne, or, did any money change hands either direction ??

mark123
06-22-2010, 10:59 PM
Happy to hear it! Now clean that deck and put some fluid film on it. Thanks, bro. I was going to call you but got called out on a furniture moving emergency. ;) How many hours did you put in today?

Congratulations ... was this just a simple swap ??? The 36" machine for the 40" machne, or, did any money change hands either direction ??
I'd rather hold onto that information until I'm done arguing about the issue. :laugh:

stang2244
06-23-2010, 02:20 AM
Ok so I just picked up a 40" turbo force t-2 with the 18hp kawi on it(I hadn't seen this thread or I would have gotten the 36). My dealer has taken a while to get my grass gobbler in so I have been mowing with a plate simply closing off the discharge chute(think "OCDC" always in the closed position). In thicker stuff I do get a windrow on the discharge side, which I expect since it's not setup with a mulch kit. I am not 100% pleased with the smoothness of the cut but have had no issues with the deck packing/plugging what-so-ever. I just checked the underside of the mower today and there are some dried up clippings around the spindles(very minimal) but the rest of the deck is perfectly clean. I think once I have the bagger, the airflow will be as designed and the cut will be a bit more smooth. I'll let you all know but so far I have seen no plugging issues.

All_Toro_4ME
06-23-2010, 08:46 AM
Well, here's the scoop. The Toro rep brought me a Turboforce 36 to try today. I purposely abused it so that it would make a mess. It had rained this morning and was sprinkling during the demo, the grass was extra tall and weedy and I lowered the deck too low (2.5") for the turf type and conditions. Even with this blatant attempt to skew the results :p the 36" performed like a mower should. I took it home with me.

I did return to the lawn raised the deck up to 3" and finished the lawn. This mower is faster than the 40", probably due to it being a few pounds lighter and it has a 16HP engine while the 40" had a 15HP engine. Even with losing 4" of mower width I believe the extra speed will compensate.

The deck had a little bit of grass under it but it was not completely packed full like the 40" after 5 or 6 passes.

Keep in mind these are all preliminary, first-day results but it looks good. So far I'm pleased with the 36".

Glad you got it all worked out and the 36'' is performing for you like it should. Keep us up to date on the conditions you cut with it. Also if you get the chance to mow in dew, let us know how it performs in that as well.

mark123
06-23-2010, 05:06 PM
Glad you got it all worked out and the 36'' is performing for you like it should. Keep us up to date on the conditions you cut with it. Also if you get the chance to mow in dew, let us know how it performs in that as well.
Mowed with it all day today. Dewy conditions do cause a nominal amount of clumping. No problem. Run it over again and it's gone or pick it up and toss it in front of the mower. It only happened a few times all morning.

The 36" seems to work as a mower should.

I did notice that putting the adjustable baffle into the "A" position allows it to throw the clippings 5 passes not including the one you're cutting at the moment. :weightlifter: :clapping: