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View Full Version : Echo weedeaters going out every 5 months???


salteedogg
06-05-2010, 05:40 PM
I have tried 210's, 225s and even the pro 230 and I cannot get a echo weedeater to last more then 5 months!!! I use it for commercial use 5 days a week and these things start to go out. I change the plug, air filter every month if not more and use echo synthetic mixing oil. What happens is the motor will start bogging (not reving as high). At first the motor will store to lose power but I can still find the sweet spot with the string length but this only works for about a month until it will barely spin the head. Also right when they start to go bad, they will run decent for weedeating but when flipped upside down to edge, it will lose almost all power and barely spins but will regain power when flipped back to normal position. I even changed the carb on my last echo and it didn't fix the bogging problem. Does anyone know why these motor's start to lose power and how I can maybe fix the engines when they go bad? Any help would be appreciated.

nepatsfan
06-05-2010, 05:45 PM
I hate echo's. Check the screen on the muffler if there is one. If there is and it is all plugged with black(carbon I think). Either clean it out or rip it off.

ff162bfd
06-05-2010, 06:04 PM
Those are the smallest commercial trimmers they make and are classed as mixed use. Spend the extra money and get a 265 or bigger. I run a 285s 5 days a week and I have been very satisfied.

Think Green
06-05-2010, 06:29 PM
I don't disassemble many of these engines to know for a fact, but my dealer and repair shop told me that these homeowner and sub commercial units have only one cylinder ring on them instead of two. This was a preemptive to satisfy the EPA and control costs while still keeping up the consumer line while offering a name brand product. The engine will not hold up to stringent use.......................as was designed to do!! There has been alot of this hanky panky parts reduction going on to save money and throw out products that won't hold up to daily work.

ed2hess
06-05-2010, 07:06 PM
I haven't bought any of the 230 and below trimmer but....are you sure they don't have carb adjustment needles that may be hidden? Something don't add up those should last longer than that. I don't think you have the one ring version yet but there doesn't seem to be any problems with that anyway. Should be no reason to replace carb at that low usage. Get someone to take them apart and blow out all the ports.

cborden
06-05-2010, 07:16 PM
We have the same problem with the 755T blower. Found out it was the carburetor going bad, five blowers, five bad carburetors. Found them on ebay for less than $50.00 each. We just replace them each spring with the pre-season tune-ups. Might be the same cause.

demhustler
06-05-2010, 07:20 PM
echos - not any good...
about once in 2 years we getting 25cc Echo - nothing good, just because we have old ones as a parts already...
this time decided to try 23cc - man... it is bad... (much worth) : ))))))) + in 2 weeks it won't start - and i been running it mostly on idle; (21cc wasn't even consideration -would newer pull it -and are known throwaways)
newer things like this with other brands

seems like same thing with 24cc handheld blowers (read casing)

i would say - stay away from echos

salteedogg
06-05-2010, 07:42 PM
I would try something bigger then the 230 but thats the largest model home depot sells. I stick with home depot because I just take them back when they go out. Even though they only have 30 day warranty, I usually just go buy a new one and take the old one back on the new reciept :nono:, they never look at the model number sticker :cool2:. the 230 model says its for commercial use on the tag. The 230 model actually only lasted about 3-4 months max compared to the 225's I have been getting. Yes they are single ringed piston's, as I have broke one down looking cleaning everything and it didn't help. I even compression checked them and they are around the same psi as the new ones? I have also checked the screens in mufflers, I have actually taken them out thinking it was the problem and it wasn't. The only thing I saw when I got inside the motor was alot of carbon on the top of the piston. I thought it was the problem but I cleaned most of it and the problem still occurred.

joed
06-05-2010, 07:46 PM
I'm having some issues with my echo pb770 blower too. I purchased it in April and it starts up fine in the morning. However, when you go from one job to the next, and try to restart the blower, it won't start without having to reprime the engine and open the choke. I found that strange since no other piece of handheld equipment I have ever owned has ever done this. I've never been a big fan of Echo and with each piece of equipment I own from them, my opinion continues to decline. From chainsaws, to trimmers, to blowers, they make a lot of noise but never get the job done unlike Stihl, Redmax, Shindaiwa, etc. They're not perfect but they're more dependable and get the job done from my perspective.

nepatsfan
06-05-2010, 08:08 PM
I love seeing the echo bashing. I hate echo with a passion. The carbs on them suck. We have a pile of junk echo trimmers behind my shop. Buy redmax you wont have these problems.

Aleman
06-05-2010, 08:40 PM
Did you remove the exhaust screen as mentioned earlier? Thats the 1st thing to do, it will cause your exact symptoms. If that doesnt do it, check your fuel filter. Ive had those clog too...

Aleman
06-05-2010, 08:42 PM
JoeD, have you replaced your fuel filter? Ours were doing the same thing and that was the culprit..

fl-landscapes
06-05-2010, 08:45 PM
Im done with echo myself. going back to shindaiwa. Nothing but trouble with echo the past couple years...and yes the big boys mostly 285's and a couple 265's

joed
06-05-2010, 08:48 PM
JoeD, have you replaced your fuel filter? Ours were doing the same thing and that was the culprit..

Thanks for the tip. I haven't done anything with it because when I took it back to my dealer he said not too worry as they all do it due to running leaner for pollution control. I still find it hard to believe that a brand new blower would be doing this.

How are you liking your PB770?

hoylebros
06-05-2010, 08:55 PM
I love my Echos...we bought a 210 and a 230. They run perfect still after over 3 years of pretty tough use. The only thing I would suggest is taking out the screen in the exhaust. Thats all the we did to ours. Good luck with it!!

cbegap
06-05-2010, 08:59 PM
If the spark arrestor is clean remove the entire muffler and check the exhaust port. It doesn't take a lot of carbon buildup to make them start running a little funny. PB engine tune also works well for periodic cleaning of the carbon. Put anti-seize on the bolts while you have them out. I really like Echo and have never had an issue with them. The muffler bolt design on the 265 is great, if they break, they don't break in the head.

Cboy7
06-05-2010, 09:44 PM
I hate echo as well. Had the same thing happen to a pro series echo edger. lasted 5 months and froze up tighter than a drum. dealer had it almost 2 months, tried a new short block and finally gave up and gave me a brand new one.

I still Hate echo.

Gave it to a friend of mine to use while its under warranty anyway.

why are they so fun to bash ?? I dont know but I feel great everytime I do!
if they are the only dealer in town I guess it would work out somehow.

VI sawguy
06-05-2010, 09:52 PM
Threads like these are stupid, Echo's aren't junk. The trimmers are not dead they need to have the carbs adjusted properly and if you had bought them from a dealer instead of HD then they would have been.

I love seeing the echo bashing. I hate echo with a passion. The carbs on them suck. We have a pile of junk echo trimmers behind my shop. Buy redmax you wont have these problems.

Echo uses the same Zama and Walbro carbs as every other trimmer manufacturer. Stihl, Shindaiwa, Redmax all use Zama and Walbro carbs and at least the Echo versions are still adjustable.

fobaum
06-05-2010, 10:11 PM
Everybodys hating on echo so funny been using echo strickly (except for hedge trimmers) for 15+ years 50-60 hours a week, i just sold a 2100 edger for 50 bucks that i started w/ over 15 years ago, there not perfect, but i can honestly say they last long, and the new ones are better IMO been been beatin the dog s--t out of the 265t's and cant kill them. so keep bashing echo they make me lots of money

ajslands
06-05-2010, 10:36 PM
Everybodys hating on echo so funny been using echo strickly (except for hedge trimmers) for 15+ years 50-60 hours a week, i just sold a 2100 edger for 50 bucks that i started w/ over 15 years ago, there not perfect, but i can honestly say they last long, and the new ones are better IMO been been beatin the dog s--t out of the 265t's and cant kill them. so keep bashing echo they make me lots of money

This guys got the right idea!


Don't use the echo oil! I buy a little bottle (2.8 ounces I beleive) of oil call universial and it's for 2 cycle engines, that stuff works great! Very high Rpms! The only problem is the only ppl that sell it around here are the gas stations (Marathon)
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BleedingGreen
06-05-2010, 10:42 PM
As others have said, check the fuel filter and the actual exhaust port not just the muffler exhaust hole. If both of these are ok and it has normal compression, I'd replace the carbs.

Think Green
06-05-2010, 10:50 PM
It has been to my knowledge that if you allow the carbon to build up in the exhaust ports from these zama carbs, it is too late as the internal pressure backbuilds, the cylinder head overheats, and the pistons will scorch-scratch allowing oil/fuel past the rings.. Excess unburned fuel will back spill into the air breather. Those Tornado technology carburetor's on our old units aren't adjustable...!!
Just buy em and throw em away. As far as oil............opti-2 or amsoil is all we used.
The stihl's are still going strong purchased the same day as our old echo's..........two echo's are now in the junk pile.???? The proof is what is still running.

Southern Pride
06-05-2010, 10:51 PM
My srm225 is going on 8 years now? Had to do a spark arrestor and I'm about to order a new carb. It's hard to get started but then its fine. I haven't been using that one hardcore commercially though. My echo blower has lasted just as long. Go redmax.

salteedogg
06-06-2010, 02:44 AM
Threads like these are stupid, Echo's aren't junk. The trimmers are not dead they need to have the carbs adjusted properly and if you had bought them from a dealer instead of HD then they would have been.



Echo uses the same Zama and Walbro carbs as every other trimmer manufacturer. Stihl, Shindaiwa, Redmax all use Zama and Walbro carbs and at least the Echo versions are still adjustable.

I have bought brand new carbs thinking it was the problem and it wasn't. I don't think the carb's can be adjusted on the models that I buy. I have looked over these carbs numerous times thinking I could adjust the air/fuel ration to cure the problem and never found anything with a slot head to turn.

VI sawguy
06-06-2010, 03:41 AM
SRM-230's have fully adjustable carbs you just have to know where to look. They don't have the conventional side by side mixture screws like old carbs but they are there and are external. Buying new carbs won't fix anything because they still need to be adjusted for the machine.

topsites
06-06-2010, 03:43 AM
I didn't know Echo made weedeaters, my srm-260s is 8 years old and I've trimmed a
guesstimated two or three thousand yards with it, still runs thou it is taking 4-6 pulls
to start and it is missing a vital piece that diffuses air over the heat sink so it likes to
overheat after 20-30 minutes of wide open running, but I'm usually just about done then.

Alan0354
06-06-2010, 04:53 AM
I don't disassemble many of these engines to know for a fact, but my dealer and repair shop told me that these homeowner and sub commercial units have only one cylinder ring on them instead of two. This was a preemptive to satisfy the EPA and control costs while still keeping up the consumer line while offering a name brand product. The engine will not hold up to stringent use.......................as was designed to do!! There has been alot of this hanky panky parts reduction going on to save money and throw out products that won't hold up to daily work.

Hate to break it to you, other than SRM230 using a 2 ring Tornado engine, All the new Vortex engines including SRM265 and SRM280 are SINGLE ring. And SRM210, 225 and 230 are commercial trimmer, just small ehgine.

Regarding to the OP, check the muffler and exhaust port for blockage before starting to panic!!!

salteedogg
06-06-2010, 05:39 AM
SRM-230's have fully adjustable carbs you just have to know where to look. They don't have the conventional side by side mixture screws like old carbs but they are there and are external. Buying new carbs won't fix anything because they still need to be adjusted for the machine.

Well my current echo's (srm 225's) don't have mixture screws from what I could see and have heard. Regardless if the carb is out of wack the machine should still run a little. When new carbs are manufactured from echo, they are preset from the factory for standard outside conditions (70-90 degrees, sea level altitude, etc) And since I don't live in the mountains or antartica, my trimmer should not go bad this quick. My weedeaters will barely even spin the head after 5 months, will semi run and when flipped upside down they lose 3/4 of the power that is even left. I know lawn crews that buy all there weedeaters from dealers and they are encountering the SAME problem I am. It seems that when echo went to the new orange color, they have cut back on quality. My older grey ones right before they went orange would last about a year and the grey ones I got about 8-10 years ago ran for about 3-4 years with the same amount of use today. The older motors just sound so much better. My old 210 has more compression then my new 225. Something is definitely different with these newer models, they just aren't made like they use to be. It seems like a lot of others are having problems like me as well so its not a fluke or carb not adjusted right, more like the motor design not designed right. Echo has went downhill really fast. Once my newest trimmer goes bad im making the switch to stihl. Would have done it sooner but am so use to the way echo feels im skeptic to buy something else but enough is enough.

salteedogg
06-06-2010, 05:45 AM
Hate to break it to you, other than SRM230 using a 2 ring Tornado engine, All the new Vortex engines including SRM265 and SRM280 are SINGLE ring. And SRM210, 225 and 230 are commercial trimmer, just small ehgine.

Regarding to the OP, check the muffler and exhaust port for blockage before starting to panic!!!
Not panicking just think its kind funny how much of a PITA echo has become. They could make a machine that would only last a month and people would still buy it. (kind of like cigarettes) because they are so use to the feel of it and the way it performs when NEW. but back on topic, does carbon build up on the piston need to be cleaned as well? I have taken the screen out of the muffler but haven't checked exhaust port yet. Will def check that out.

GrassIsGreenerLawnCare
06-06-2010, 07:08 AM
i agree....i got the echo 225 srm for a backup to my stihl fs90r so both my brother and i can trim at the same time if we finish cutting around the same time. Ive had my echo for about 2 months now and i only cut about 3 days a week 9 lawns a day cuz i am new and dont have too many customers yet. the echo already has a problem with the throttle sticking, boggs down, and has NOOO power at all. these are weak asss trimmers. i know the engine is smaller than the stihl fs90, but for $220 i expected a little better than a poulan or a ryobi! haha echo is a joke, even there larger trimmers are junk. stihl and redmax are the only trimmers ive ever used that i liked for power, throttle response, and displacement. I like the echo hedge trimmer hc150 only cuz i got it for $100 brand new....other than that i dont think i would pay more than 100 for anything echo anymore. ill stick with stihl and pay the extra money for reliabilty and power. echo should be ashamed with themselves producing units like this....even at homeowner grade level. even sadder is that on the box/packaging of the srm225 it says that it is commercial grade! at first i liked it cuz it was so light and did its job(not close to a stihl but...) so i couldnt complain for the little amount of money i paid.

Charles
06-06-2010, 07:21 AM
89 octane fuel
Change fuel filter regularly
Get rid of the muffler screen
Use Stihl synthetic oil
Keep the air vents clean to keep it from over heating
Keep the carb filter clean

Echo will then last a long time

Lawn Dog2001
06-06-2010, 08:38 AM
Its funny this thread came up. About 15 years ago I used to use Echo exclusively. I was completely happy and I found Echo products to be bulletproof. In the late 90s I started to become pretty good friends with my Exmark dealer, who also sold Stihl, so I made the switch, even though at the time I preferred Echo.

To make a long story short, I was on a job last year and an older Stihl FS-80 we had with us quit on me. Well we were closer to Home Depot than we were to my dealer or the shop, so I ran in and bought an Echo SRM215 just to get through the day.

This Echo was a total piece of garbage from day one. I havent been so unhappy with a piece of equipment in a long time. The U-turn head that was on it was the most ******ed contraption I have ever used. Nothing like taking something that only takes a minute and making sure it now takes 2. And guess what the trimmer lasted exactly 5 months before it started doing exactly what the trimmer in the original thread did. To top it off we didnt even use it to much because I have 2 FS-90s we run the majority of the time. Total garbage.

To make things worse. I tried to take the thing back to Home Depot, who claimed they could send it out for service. They assured me that the trimmer would be covered under warranty. Well they had the thing for 2 months, sent it back unfixed, and tried to charge me $30 just for looking at it. It needed a new carb, which they said was not covered under the warranty?????????? I refused to pay the $30, got the trimmer back and sold it as is on craigslist for $100.

Morel of the story, DO NOT BUY NEW ECHO PRODUCTS!!! They are seriously not IMHO quality commercial equipment anymore. If you are going to go Echo for the love of God buy from a dealer. Home Depot is not going to help you when it breaks down, and it will break down.

lawnboy dan
06-06-2010, 09:03 AM
i quit using echo garbage a long time ago

Charles
06-06-2010, 09:08 AM
Ya, I got rid of the U-turn crud right off the bat. I don't get the problem you are having. My 210 runs fine with plenty of power. I bought this one in August of last year.
One thing I have found in all my 2cycle equipment is they run bad in hot, humid weather. Could be the ethanol?

Cboy7
06-06-2010, 10:01 AM
it IS the ethanol , but redmax has figured out a way to deal with it as have many others.
echo gave up on R&D.

they think they are the oldest company so they sit on their duff.
just the way the motor is designed it burns your hand while running(on the metal frame) and its just chunk of metal and plastic on a wing and a prayer.

nepatsfan
06-06-2010, 10:03 AM
Its funny this thread came up. About 15 years ago I used to use Echo exclusively. I was completely happy and I found Echo products to be bulletproof. In the late 90s I started to become pretty good friends with my Exmark dealer, who also sold Stihl, so I made the switch, even though at the time I preferred Echo.

To make a long story short, I was on a job last year and an older Stihl FS-80 we had with us quit on me. Well we were closer to Home Depot than we were to my dealer or the shop, so I ran in and bought an Echo SRM215 just to get through the day.

This Echo was a total piece of garbage from day one. I havent been so unhappy with a piece of equipment in a long time. The U-turn head that was on it was the most ******ed contraption I have ever used. Nothing like taking something that only takes a minute and making sure it now takes 2. And guess what the trimmer lasted exactly 5 months before it started doing exactly what the trimmer in the original thread did. To top it off we didnt even use it to much because I have 2 FS-90s we run the majority of the time. Total garbage.

To make things worse. I tried to take the thing back to Home Depot, who claimed they could send it out for service. They assured me that the trimmer would be covered under warranty. Well they had the thing for 2 months, sent it back unfixed, and tried to charge me $30 just for looking at it. It needed a new carb, which they said was not covered under the warranty?????????? I refused to pay the $30, got the trimmer back and sold it as is on craigslist for $100.

Morel of the story, DO NOT BUY NEW ECHO PRODUCTS!!! They are seriously not IMHO quality commercial equipment anymore. If you are going to go Echo for the love of God buy from a dealer. Home Depot is not going to help you when it breaks down, and it will break down.
I agree with this 100%. I also used to be the same way. I am going to take a picture of the echo graveyard behind my shop. My dealer told me they are the leanest running machine and thats why the carbs clog up. Bottom line, echo is a p.o.s. homeowner machine(now). Redmax or stihl is the way to go.

PROCUTS LAWNCARE
06-06-2010, 11:18 AM
Wow you guys are funny. I have a total of 9 Echo trimmers, 210 230 and 260's. Never ever had a problem in the 10 years I been in business. I run 89 fuel and always run the Echo oil. I also have 4 blowers. PB60 and 3 755's. No problems what so ever. So I think its operator error. Stop using the cheap fuel and cheap oil. Why is it I have no problems with any of my Echo products? Just my 2 cents.

Mario

P.S. If anyone has any SRM260s they dont want or wanna sell let me know!!!

CLARK LAWN
06-06-2010, 11:38 AM
my last echo made it one season, by the end of the season it had no power took it to the dealer and he checked it and it had no compression left, this was a srm265. i took it to a stihl dealer as i cant stand the echo dealer, when i took it to the echo dealer to see if they would do something about it they started telling me i must have ran gas with low/no oil mixed in it and i did this and i did that. i run all my other 2stroke with the same gas mix and dont have a problem with anything but the echos that i had.
4 stihl trimmers
1 kombi tool
1 stihl hedge trimmers
1 redmax hedge trimmer
1 shindiawa chainsaw
1 stihl chainsaw
3 stihl blowers
all run fine, the 3 echo trimmers i have had over the last couple years only lasted a little over a season. i had one that quit running before the first tank of gas was through it and the dealer told me i put bad gas in it, it was still the gas they put in it when i bought it.

Butler Landscaping
06-06-2010, 11:51 AM
i hate echo...get a stihl

Aleman
06-06-2010, 12:37 PM
Everyone keeps touting Red Max and Shindawia. Ive used both and loved them but know they have both been bought out by Husky and Echo respectively. Any word on how they are since the mergers? We are trying Kawasaki equipment now with good results so far.

coolluv
06-06-2010, 01:46 PM
I'll throw my 2 cents in. I had an Echo trimmer that I bought brand new from Home Depot, don't remember what one it was but it was a commercial trimmer not a homeowner model. This was back in 2007. I needed it because when I first started out I was only part time and was using a Pulon Pro trimmer. I ran it about 5 months or so that first year and then the next year about two months into the season it started acting up. Hard starting, running like crap and it got worse as time went on.

I did everything I knew to solve the problem and then finally decided to take it to Home Depot to see what they could do. Well they told me I needed to send it out and it would take weeks or months or whatever, so I went to my Hustler dealer and asked if they would see what was wrong with it. Well they sell Redmax and nothing else. So I didn't need it for a few days and I left it with them. Now I don't know what they did to it, if anything at all. The tech said he would look at it but he was not familiar with Echo but he would check it out.

I stopped in a few days later and asked what they found out and he said he really didn't know but suggested I buy a new carb for it. Well at this point I needed something so I bought a Redmax 2601 strato charged model. I don't remember what I did with that Echo because I no longer have it, I think I gave it away or threw it in the trash, I don't remember. The Redmax was and is a great trimmer. I have been using it since 2007 and never had any problems with it until recently. It's the only trimmer I have so I use it for my business and my own home. The only thing I didn't like about it was it took a long time to warm up, but once warmed up it ran well and would start on the first or second pull.

But if you had to drive say 5 or 10 minutes to the next job, well it would take a minute or two to warm up and about 4 or 5 pulls to start. I read in a post a while back about turning it upside down to get it to run right for a minute and that worked great. So there I would be pull, pull,pull...start, then turn upside down and rev it up and wait till it was ready to work. Like I said once it was ready it would run fine and start on the first pull.

So that was a little annoying but nothing major. Well a few days ago it started taking longer to warm up and would bog down longer than usual. I changed the plug, no difference. Checked and cleaned the air filter, again no difference. I pulled out the fuel filter in the tank and blew through it and it was fine. So I read somewhere that some guys use Sea Foam and that seemed to help them. So I went to the auto parts store and picked some up. I ran some through it and even poured some directly in the carb and let it sit overnight. No difference. So I took the carb apart to the point I was comfortable and cleaned it out with carb cleaner, let it soak etc. Well no difference.

So after doing everything I thought I could do I took it to the dealer. This was yesterday and they were slow and the tech took it out back and I showed him what it was doing. Well I looked around for carb adjustments before I took it to them and I even went online and tried to find something there about Walbro carbs but time was running out and I know they close at 1 pm on Sat so I took it to them. Well he took a torch and heated up the end of a screw driver and pushed it against the carb and low and behold he opened up a hole where there is an adjustment screw for the carb. He adjusted the carb and it started running better. He suggested that I take the muffler off and make sure the exhaust port was not clogged, which I did this morning.

I tried starting it this morning before I checked and cleaned the exhaust port, and it ran much better but not as good as it could, so I stuck my screwdriver in that hole that he opened up and started playing around until it would run good. Well now it runs great and I waited a few hours for it to cool down just to make sure, and you know it don't have that long warm up time like it used to before and I don't have to turn it upside down anymore. I just choke it and hold it on full throttle like before but it is ready to go in about 15 seconds not a minute or two or three like before.

Sooooooo, I don't know if I leaned it out or made it run richer but I know it runs better than the day I bought it. I now have access to the adjustment screw and if need be I can fool with it.

As far as Echo goes.... I still have a PE230 edger that runs great and always has. Ive had it since 2005 or so and it always starts on the second or third pull when its cold, and will literally start on the first pull when its warm. I know others that have Echo and love them. I guess the jury is still out for me. Would I buy another? I don't think so, but you never say never.

I would add a few more things. I haven't had many problems with anything not running right until they started using the ethanol in the fuel. This year just about everything I own has had some sort of carb problems and fuel related issues. I talked to the tech and he said it is definitely the ethanol fuel that is causing all the problems. It leaves a white crust on the filters and ports and jets and so on. He recommended I use higher octane and they have a new Sta-bil formula for ethanol gas that is supposed to prevent the problems associated with ethanol. I have yet to use it but I think I may start to and see what happens.

Anyway that's my 2-3-4 or maybe even 5 cents.

Dave...

ProStreetCamaro
06-06-2010, 02:18 PM
LMFAO you guys crack me up! Echo equipment no good? Pass that crack you guys are smoking my way because that is some good stuff! We run 2 Echo SRM-230 trimmers 5 days a week and 1 is 5 years old and the other 6 years old and 1 of them hasn't has an air filter or the filter cover on it for the last 3 years! The other one has a filter thats still original and they both run like brand new. Our 2 Echo backpacks are both 6 and 7 years old and they both still run like new. So I dont know what you guys are doing to your equipment but you must be doing something very wrong. Granted when we were running at 50:1 the ports would clog up about twice a year and need cleaning but that's it. I now run amsoil saber at 85:1 and have not had to clean a port in over a year.

coolluv
06-06-2010, 02:21 PM
I'll take a hit of that too. I could use it.

:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

Dave...

TLS
06-06-2010, 02:43 PM
Bottom line....if you can buy it in a box store....it's junk!

Knight511
06-06-2010, 02:47 PM
I got jumped for this before... but I have a SRM230... motor started losing power and then just stopped revving... would idle fine and rev to maybe 25% of max but wouldn't rev past... ended up being the ignition module... after cleaning everything (even going as far as swapping the carb off of my PE230) nothing worked... decided it was time to try the last thing (iginition) so I could get rid of the engine if it was not coming back. $35 or so later, my 230 engine is back where it was... running great! I had 8+ years of partime use on it before it died (10-15 yards a week), so I figure it is just going to be the wear-and-tear item on the trimmer.... not a big deal though.

Cboy7
06-06-2010, 03:05 PM
LMFAO you guys crack me up! Echo equipment no good? Pass that crack you guys are smoking my way because that is some good stuff! We run 2 Echo SRM-230 trimmers 5 days a week and 1 is 5 years old and the other 6 years old and 1 of them hasn't has an air filter or the filter cover on it for the last 3 years! The other one has a filter thats still original and they both run like brand new. Our 2 Echo backpacks are both 6 and 7 years old and they both still run like new. So I dont know what you guys are doing to your equipment but you must be doing something very wrong. Granted when we were running at 50:1 the ports would clog up about twice a year and need cleaning but that's it. I now run amsoil saber at 85:1 and have not had to clean a port in over a year.
all you guys that brag about having echo so long and loving it... have NOT bought one in the last 2 years.
Thats where the problem is. They havnt taken the time to fix the carbs to meet emissions and just run them lean and they freeze up and lose power.

the old echoes you guys love are gone. all the other commercial companies have an R&D dept to develope a fine machine that still runs great and meets emissions.
echo does not.
they used to be the big company but now they have sat on their butts. I hope the company takes all these user opinions seriously.

fix the carbs and stop blaming the consumer

GlynnC
06-06-2010, 04:11 PM
I'd like to get in line for all of you guys thrown away Echo equipment!!!! I have at least 12 pieces of Echo equipment--no major problems--even from the SRM230 found in the dump. I have 4 SRM 230--run great. All of these are the grey colored--no orange, however, I don't think the 230 has changed

I'm also in the handheld repair business for 3 larger commercial guys--I hate to see a RedMax come in the door. The older units were great--have one of my own. But the newer strato charged units give the owners trouble after running a year or so, they are the most difficult to get to running right--at least more difficult than the Shindaiwa, Kawasaki, and Echo that I work on!

Think Green
06-06-2010, 04:25 PM
Well, this thread is evident that most of us that have used the Echo product line trimmer SRM 230 doesn't prefer this unit. Each area has specific problems.......no doubt! Whether you use 87, 89 or 93 octane, the units still observe problems. Some units run like angels!
It would seem likely that we run our equipment like dogs, don't change the plugs, don't air blow out the fins, and do otherwise useless maintenance to our units. Could be that our dealers are idiots and tell us anything to satisfy the anger and bitchslap reactions that occur when a unit doesn't perform at our expectations. Fuel ratings, oil choice, and operator use is always the culprit, yet I see a warehouse full of non functioning units when i go to the dealer. Take the exhaust screens off.............leave them on.........use approved oil...........don't use approved oil??? Mix the oils at 85:1, 50:1, 100:1 !
It is easier for a non-licensed dealer to bash and degrade a unit that they don't endorse and vise versa. All we can do is voice our opinions and add our sentiments on what is the best equipment.
Back in the winter, I attended a outdoor power show with the likes of Stihl, Echo, Shindy, etc. All the reps talked about issues and offered salvation techniques........Echo rep didn't really say a whole lot.............period.!!!!! Says enough for me!!!!

salteedogg
06-06-2010, 04:36 PM
LMFAO you guys crack me up! Echo equipment no good? Pass that crack you guys are smoking my way because that is some good stuff! We run 2 Echo SRM-230 trimmers 5 days a week and 1 is 5 years old and the other 6 years old and 1 of them hasn't has an air filter or the filter cover on it for the last 3 years! The other one has a filter thats still original and they both run like brand new. Our 2 Echo backpacks are both 6 and 7 years old and they both still run like new. So I dont know what you guys are doing to your equipment but you must be doing something very wrong. Granted when we were running at 50:1 the ports would clog up about twice a year and need cleaning but that's it. I now run amsoil saber at 85:1 and have not had to clean a port in over a year.

Actually pass me what your smoking so I can go into the echo fantasy world you found and get me a bulletproof echo trimmer. Maybe it cause your echo trimmer's are older I dont know. If it was one person on here saying it then yeah you might think he was bluffing but dude I dont think 40 different people on here are all smoking crack. You said user error, I use 89 octane, new plug, new air filter constantly. Try to even use half throttle when grass isn't thick. I BABY my trimmers as if it was a new born child and bottom line they are built out of cheap components. These things should handle user error anyways if you are running one without an air filter for that long. If you can do that then mine shouldn't be burning up in 5 months from being babied. The echo fanboy's will all soon catch on to echo's POS equipment if they already haven't....

ProStreetCamaro
06-06-2010, 05:05 PM
Actually pass me what your smoking so I can go into the echo fantasy world you found and get me a bulletproof echo trimmer. Maybe it cause your echo trimmer's are older I dont know. If it was one person on here saying it then yeah you might think he was bluffing but dude I dont think 40 different people on here are all smoking crack. You said user error, I use 89 octane, new plug, new air filter constantly. Try to even use half throttle when grass isn't thick. I BABY my trimmers as if it was a new born child and bottom line they are built out of cheap components. These things should handle user error anyways if you are running one without an air filter for that long. If you can do that then mine shouldn't be burning up in 5 months from being babied. The echo fanboy's will all soon catch on to echo's POS equipment if they already haven't....



And we run 87 fuel, never replaced a spark plug, no air filter on one and original on the other and original fuel filters and our newer orange PAS-265 has been trouble free also. Actually the 265 is a power house. We use it to trim shrubs, to edge with and to reach up and saw limbs with. Granted we don't use it nearly as much as out SRM-230 units so maybe it will give us issues down the road I don't know.

Robert Pruitt
06-06-2010, 05:56 PM
and all this time you guys are talking about the Stihl junk.

streamlight2
06-07-2010, 02:05 AM
If you like adjusting your own carbs, go to the Echo web site and look under 'technical documents' some of the Zama carbs have a small plastic plug concealing an adjustable high speed jet. The carbs were put out from the factory to run a little lean to satisify the EPA, and discourage the customer from making any adjustments.

salteedogg
06-07-2010, 02:14 AM
If you like adjusting your own carbs, go to the Echo web site and look under 'technical documents' some of the Zama carbs have a small plastic plug concealing an adjustable high speed jet. The carbs were put out from the factory to run a little lean to satisify the EPA, and discourage the customer from making any adjustments.

Just looked under technical documents for the srm 225 and I didn't see any thing where it said it could be adjusted. It says you can adjust the idle but nothing about high speed jet screw. Maybe the carb on the 225 is just a cheap throw away and not a zama like you mentioned.

T.M. LAWNS
06-07-2010, 02:15 AM
If you like adjusting your own carbs, go to the Echo web site and look under 'technical documents' some of the Zama carbs have a small plastic plug concealing an adjustable high speed jet. The carbs were put out from the factory to run a little lean to satisify the EPA, and discourage the customer from making any adjustments.

I adjusted the carb on my PB251 today. I used a small drill bit with a pair of small vicegrips and drilled the plastic cap out by hand. Turned the adjuster out about one full turn and it runs a hell of a lot better. :clapping:

streamlight2
06-07-2010, 02:22 AM
Click on the parts diagram for the SRM-225, scroll down to the carb picture, you'll see item #9 and #10 , ones the limiter cap (plug) and the other is the high speed jet.

RDA
06-07-2010, 02:27 AM
And we run 87 fuel, never replaced a spark plug, no air filter on one and original on the other and original fuel filters and our newer orange PAS-265 has been trouble free also. Actually the 265 is a power house. We use it to trim shrubs, to edge with and to reach up and saw limbs with. Granted we don't use it nearly as much as out SRM-230 units so maybe it will give us issues down the road I don't know.

I have a PAS-265, it has run perfectly since day one, it does take a few seconds to warm up just like day one as well. It is very powerful. The SRM-230 trimmers also run well. These are both models that are less than three years old (orange housing models). I use premium gas and 50:1 Echo oil.

To the OP and his practice of deceiving Home Depot, I believe that is a very poor practice and you should get an authorized dealer to deal with the trimmer under warranty.

Regards,

Rich

Robert Pruitt
06-07-2010, 02:35 AM
almost sounds like Internet fraud.

streamlight2
06-07-2010, 02:58 AM
todd moran,

you got it right, usually just takes a small turn out or CCW to get a better high speed idle.

JoeHop6299
06-07-2010, 04:10 AM
I love my Echos...we bought a 210 and a 230. They run perfect still after over 3 years of pretty tough use. The only thing I would suggest is taking out the screen in the exhaust. Thats all the we did to ours. Good luck with it!!

I have a 210 and run it every day,now for three years, no problems????

salteedogg
06-07-2010, 05:44 AM
I adjusted the carb on my PB251 today. I used a small drill bit with a pair of small vicegrips and drilled the plastic cap out by hand. Turned the adjuster out about one full turn and it runs a hell of a lot better. :clapping:

Thanks for letting me know where its at. I noticed its a little black cap, do I need to drill it out or will it pop off using a slot head? Since these things run lean from the factory, which way do I need to turn it to make it run richer? Counterclockwise? How will I know when to stop turning it? Thanks for the help :drinkup:

David C.
06-07-2010, 08:26 AM
I hate echo's. Check the screen on the muffler if there is one. If there is and it is all plugged with black(carbon I think). Either clean it out or rip it off.

Ditto!!! There is a screen that is over the exhaust port----remove muffler---discard screen---replace muffler----carbon builds up on the screen clogging the exhaust

GrassIsGreenerLawnCare
06-07-2010, 09:17 AM
[QUOTE=Cboy7;3594344]all you guys that brag about having echo so long and loving it... have NOT bought one in the last 2 years.
Thats where the problem is. They havnt taken the time to fix the carbs to meet emissions and just run them lean and they freeze up and lose power.
the old echoes you guys love are gone.


100% correct. I agree echo WAS great at one point. But i think as soon as they started MASS producing as Box stores started sprouting up everywhere around the country.....the demand for equipment rose so quickly that they are NOT concerned about Quality or Reliability. As for the power....whata joke. I had a crapsman trimmer that had more power than this Piece of Crap echo i bought. The blowers are horrible as well. my husqvarna bckpk blower will outpower mostly all the echos and thats very sad. I dont understand why people cant just FEEL THE CHEAPNESS just by holding it in your hands. The Stihl fs90r just has a nice heavy duty feel to it...not like its going to snap in half if u drop it. The throttle response and power is hands down better than any echo trimmer on the market. I cant even keep this echo trimmer on my trimmer rack because it cant handle the bouncing! The cheap flimsy plastic throttle lever has ZERO durability. Im pissed i spent 220 on this junk...i shoulds just spent the extra 100 and got another stihl. And yes i have ran 89 octane/echo oil in it. i dont rev and let go rev and let go either, i know how to trim. its only 2 months old with very little use and already the throttle sticks and when u start it....it takes like 30seconds to a minute to actually warm up so it doesnt bog out. The stihls just start first pull and have 100% power COLD

ProStreetCamaro
06-07-2010, 03:43 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/prostreetcamaro/th_Echo.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v426/prostreetcamaro/?action=view&current=Echo.flv)

T.M. LAWNS
06-07-2010, 04:07 PM
Thanks for letting me know where its at. I noticed its a little black cap, do I need to drill it out or will it pop off using a slot head? Since these things run lean from the factory, which way do I need to turn it to make it run richer? Counterclockwise? How will I know when to stop turning it? Thanks for the help :drinkup:

Salteedogg, use a small drill bit and hold the bit using a small pair of vicegrips. Drill the black plastic cap by hand don't use a drill motor because you might damage the mixture screw. Once you drill the cap far enought down you can use a small pick to get the rest of the cap out. When the cap is out, start the engine and let it warmup, then give it full throttle and adjust the screw out until it runs the smoothest and has the highest rpm you can get. Make sure you give it full throttle while you adjust the screw. :drinkup:

SunState Lawn Care inc
06-07-2010, 04:09 PM
We have used the 210's for 27 years now with no problems. They cut great if you service your accts every week or every two weeks. Sounds like the screen is clogged or the exhaust port is clogging up remove or clean the screen or clean out the exhaust port they shouild run fine then. I will say I just bought a new model trimmer and don't care for it. The guys don't like how big the handle and trigger area is. It's not as comfortable to use as the old ones are.

GlynnC
06-07-2010, 05:30 PM
Salteedogg, use a small drill bit and hold the bit using a small pair of vicegrips. Drill the black plastic cap by hand don't use a drill motor because you might damage the mixture screw. Once you drill the cap far enought down you can use a small pick to get the rest of the cap out. When the cap is out, start the engine and let it warmup, then give it full throttle and adjust the screw out until it runs the smoothest and has the highest rpm you can get. Make sure you give it full throttle while you adjust the screw. :drinkup:

At the point described above--when engine is running at highest rpm, the engine is still running a little lean. This is the way I did it for years and never had any problems, usually now I open high speed just a little more after engine reaches highest rpm. However the correct way according to technical manuals is--warm engine as described above, string at proper length (where guard would cut it off, assuming it had a guard), then while holding throttle wide open, turn high speed adj. clockwise until engine starts slowing down, then counterclockwise until engine starts slowing down, then adjust midpoint in between.

T.M. LAWNS
06-07-2010, 05:39 PM
At the point described above--when engine is running at highest rpm, the engine is still running a little lean. This is the way I did it for years and never had any problems, usually now I open high speed just a little more after engine reaches highest rpm. However the correct way according to technical manuals is--warm engine as described above, string at proper length (where guard would cut it off, assuming it had a guard), then while holding throttle wide open, turn high speed adj. clockwise until engine starts slowing down, then counterclockwise until engine starts slowing down, then adjust midpoint in between.

That's how I adjusted mine. You worded it better than I did :laugh: I think adjusting the mixture screw on these Echo's would solve alot of running problems people are running into. :drinkup:

GlynnC
06-07-2010, 05:55 PM
That's how I adjusted mine. You worded it better than I did :laugh: I think adjusting the mixture screw on these Echo's would solve alot of running problems people are running into. :drinkup:

I agree--that's why in an earlier post on this thread, I said I'd like to get in line for all the Echo equipment being thrown away!!!!!!

freshprince94
06-07-2010, 07:38 PM
I used Echo stuff when I started out in 2007. I had the SRM 210 and the PE 200 from Home Depot. They both had terrible power and weren't that well built but got the job done. The edger didnt give me many problems but was woefully underpowered and not very commercial so I sold it on craigslist once my business picked up. The trimmer was terrible. It was cheap and flimsy, and after about two months of use became almost impossible to start. Took at least 6 or 7 pulls when cold and 3-5 when hot. It would take forever to rev up and wouldnt get up to full power until I was almost done trimming. Mine had some kind of rapid load head which took pre cut pieces of string, that was OK but the bump head sucked. I haven't used their commercial stuff because nobody around me sells Echo but I wouldn't trust it. I would much rather go to a dealer and get quality stuff then deal with the headaches of HD and Echo.

dtc0207
06-07-2010, 11:52 PM
Noticed most people on here that are complaining about Echo bought them at home depot Do you think the chances the home depot models are made cheaper then dealer versions just like the Husqvarna, John Deere and Cub Products sold at the big boxes

RDA
06-08-2010, 12:05 AM
Noticed most people on here that are complaining about Echo bought them at home depot Do you think the chances the home depot models are made cheaper then dealer versions just like the Husqvarna, John Deere and Cub Products sold at the big boxes

I highly doubt it, they are the same product regardless of distribution channel. Also, you are wrong, the John Deere products are also identical whether from a John Deere dealer or Home Depot or Lowes. I can't speak to Husqvarna or Cub but I doubt they are any different either.

Regards,

Rich

demhustler
06-08-2010, 12:07 AM
Threads like these are stupid, Echo's aren't junk. The trimmers are not dead they need to have the carbs adjusted properly and if you had bought them from a dealer instead of HD then they would have been.

....

Echo uses the same Zama and Walbro carbs as every other trimmer manufacturer. Stihl, Shindaiwa, Redmax all use Zama and Walbro carbs and at least the Echo versions are still adjustable.

not threads - but answers (like this)
1.junk we have - from dealer, though in HD - the same
2. may be they should start to do some quality control (on what they buying, making and selling), - then may be they would be like Stihl, Shindaiwa, Redmax...


3.all our smr251t usually lasts season-two; performance - not match to kawi; reliability - poor; when 251 throw clutch (first time something went wrong on 251 earlier than engine) we decided - enough to pay more for srm251t p.o.s - lets try 230...
what a joke as a trimmer (srm230) .... no power, no torque, but same heavy as 251t .... two weeks running very easy - big disappointment already (wouldn't start sometimes, leaking cap, etc)

demhustler
06-08-2010, 12:10 AM
thanks 4 tips on carb adjustment, guys

FYS777
06-08-2010, 12:56 AM
ugh!! i have had 2 210 echo trimmers for 6 seasons have had not one problem with them, took off muffler and screen one time this spring, didn't have to clean them because they were clean, and no scaring on the piston, my 413 blower 5 seasons, still runs great!!!! all you echo bashers are, you all must be doing something wrong!!! o by they way got them at HD. nothing wrong with that either!! and these are run hard all season,
by the way, i go through 14 hundred feet of string with these a year, srm 210's . no walk in the park use.

VI sawguy
06-08-2010, 01:04 AM
1.junk we have - from dealer, though in HD - the same

I realize that an SRM230 bought from HD is the same machine as one bought from a dealer but the difference is a machine bought from a dealer would be adjusted properly. One you buy from in a box from HD is not and there's no way it can be adjusted properly as they are shipped all over the country. They need to be adjusted for different altitudes and fuel quality that varies all over the country. Its not a question of quality control.
If you bought a Shindaiwa, Stihl, Redmax in a box they would need to be adjusted to run properly too, but since they are bought from a dealer they are adjusted and ready to go.

RDA
06-08-2010, 01:12 AM
I realize that an SRM230 bought from HD is the same machine as one bought from a dealer but the difference is a machine bought from a dealer would be adjusted properly. One you buy from in a box from HD is not and there's no way it can be adjusted properly as they are shipped all over the country. They need to be adjusted for different altitudes and fuel quality that varies all over the country. Its not a question of quality control.
If you bought a Shindaiwa, Stihl, Redmax in a box they would need to be adjusted to run properly too, but since they are bought from a dealer they are adjusted and ready to go.

I understand that, but keep in mind that most of the Echo power equipment isn't adjustable as has been noted in this thread without drilling out the cap to gain access to the adjustment screw. I doubt the Echo dealers are doing that before the equipment goes out the door.

Regards,

Rich

VI sawguy
06-08-2010, 01:30 AM
If they don't then they're not doing there job. Adjusting the carb properly is part of PDIing a new unit and should be done on every unit. Every other brand of trimmer has limiting caps on their adjustments (its required by the EPA to have a type of limiter) and they would need to be removed to be adjusted properly as well.

ajslands
06-08-2010, 01:50 AM
So shindawa and echo merged a couple years ago right, and it's kinda like toro and exmark or lesco and Deere?
Posted via Mobile Device

tallimeca
06-08-2010, 10:02 AM
it's a wonder that some of you guys even dare to run a business with the lack of brains you carry.

Echo uses the same Zama and Walbro carbs as every other trimmer manufacturer. Stihl, Shindaiwa, Redmax all use Zama and Walbro carbs and at least the Echo versions are still adjustable.

Been trying to tell these zippers this for years they don't get it......... They think Echo makes the carburetors and they make them cheap and they are crap. You see the same posts about red max......or stihl too. Maybe we should make this a sticky.

This you have these other rocket scientists trying to say how Echo is cheap because they only use 1 ring in their engines.....hahahaha. I've said it a million times, but i'll waste my time and say it again. One ring has nothing to do with being cheap. It has to do with optimum engine performance and what cc engines they are in and what they are being used for. One ring is less drag and 1 less chance for an issue. Considering 90 percent of all 2 cycle failures are directly related to ring failures.

Tear down a husky 338xpt top handle saw that is 500 bucks. How many rings are in that? :laugh:

First of all, if you are using a trimmer more than a couple hours a day 4-5 times a week, you need to be running a SRM265....PERIOD. 225, 210, even 230's are homeowner/light commercial use.

You need to be using 89 octane or higher fuel, and you need to be using a brand oil, not home depot oil, not quaker state, not 1 package fits all oil.
You need to put caps on your gas cans on the truck and trailer so you aren't picking up moisture and water when you are driving around. You need to service the units , which adjusting the carbs is part of service. Do any of you realize that the carb will make the machine run different in the spring and fall if it's 50 and 60 degrees out, then it will when it's 80 and 90 degrees out with 80 percent humidity?

If you are buying a trimmer off the rack at homedepot, they are not prepped and adjusted before they leave like they are when you buy it from a dealer (and even some lazy dealers don't adjust them like they are supposed to)

Some brands don't even have adjustments on the carbs, then you are screwed.

Then this genius on here posts about how redmax and stihl have done things to combat ethanol while echo has done nothing.........hahahaha. Really guy? How about you elaborate on this and tell me exactly what they have done. I'll give you a hint, don't bother making yourself look silly. The facts are this.

1)The fuel lines are outsourced by the manufacturers, so none of them are making changes in house. They are made to withstand 10 percent ethanol. Thats it. If you get a batch of higher alcohol, which happens all the time because it's added to the fuel and not mixed in the tanks properly, nothing can be done about that.

2) The R & D is done mainly on the carb manufacturers end.......who ....once again....get this........ they make the carbs for everyone

3) As far as the internals of the engine go, there is not anything that can be designed to offset ethanol in the fuel. It's as simple as this....... Once your amount of gas reaches it's saturation point with moisture, the oil will separate from the fuel quicker then normal. If you don't shake the unit before use, you will be running it on straight gas.

4)Muffler screens are only used on Echo? Really? Hahahaha. Spark arrest screens are used on everything. Unless it has a cat muffler on it, which even some of them still have screens. Muffler screens plug up over years from carbon from normal use. Otherwise, they plug up prematurely because you are mixing too much oil, the wrong oil, or using the choke to shut the machine off because the switch don't work.

The only way to avoid that is to go to a 4 stroke engine or this 4 mix technology. How's that working out.....??????? I know the answer trust me.

Echo and Redmax are really the 2 front runners as far as the 2 stoke world goes. Their designs are meeting epa standards years ahead. Primary reason why Husqvarna bought Redmax and Shindaiwa merged with Echo. Both Husqvarna and Shindaiwa were looking at loosing oodles of models out of their lineups without another engine outsource. Shindaiwa basically lost all their non commercial models which are now Echo. Echo has been supplying the engines for a few years for some models. Husqvarna's backpack blowers are all redmax. They are incorporating string trimmers and hedge clippers into the lineup.

Just got notification that the 372xp saw is coming back once again, with a redmax series engine on it.

Carry on with your worthless posts. Next time start by reading your owners manuals.

FYS777
06-08-2010, 10:19 AM
in my 210's. only have used regular gas with lowest octane, used echo or Pennzoil mix, they have no carb adjustment, i live in very low humidity climate, use them for commercial use, been running for 6 years and still run great. i guess for the moisture thing depends were you live. i have also run my eaters in 20 degree temps ran fine just took longer to warm up, and run them 100 degree ran fine and didn't need to adjust carbs, i guess its were you live. were i am the elevation is 4 thousand feet level.
what you wrote was very good though.

GlynnC
06-08-2010, 10:47 AM
Well said tallimeca--I'm just too tired to get up on the soap box--you did a good job.

I really don't understand how people who cannot/don't adjust their own equipment make it in this business.

Cboy7
06-08-2010, 06:25 PM
Then this genius on here posts about how redmax and stihl have done things to combat ethanol while echo has done nothing.........hahahaha. Really guy? How about you elaborate on this and tell me exactly what they have done. I'll give you a hint, don't bother making yourself look silly. The facts are this.

.

the r&d team that designed a hot metal frame right by your arm to scorch the *(&% out of it every time your elbow approaches? was that made by the carb company as well?
designed to overheat to the point of death whenever its run for 10 min?
crazy design that enables heat to spread through the unit? to the carb where it causes vapor lock?

the problem is not the fuel lines. its the engine design as well as muffler placement and carb optimization.

or lack of it.

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
06-08-2010, 09:30 PM
Echos as professional tools suck. They don't hold up. Good for light commercial and residential but stick with Red Max, Tanaka, Shindaiwa, Stihl, and Kawasaki for real trimmers.

FYS777
06-08-2010, 09:47 PM
i strongly disagree!!

nepatsfan
06-08-2010, 09:52 PM
Echos as professional tools suck. They don't hold up. Good for light commercial and residential but stick with Red Max, Tanaka, Shindaiwa, Stihl, and Kawasaki for real trimmers.
Thats the truth. Not sure about tanaka or kawi two stroke stuff but echo sucks for sure. Ryobi, homelite, and ECHO

4 seasons lawn&land
06-08-2010, 10:12 PM
YOu guys gotta get away from the Home Depot junk. Go buy commercial stuff from the echo dealer. I have a Echo pile from HD too. And a pro series that rips!

Does anyone have any idea why my cheapo Echo smokes like a chimney when I shut it off and SMELLS!?!?!

nepatsfan
06-08-2010, 10:16 PM
YOu guys gotta get away from the Home Depot junk. Go buy commercial stuff from the echo dealer. I have a Echo pile from HD too. And a pro series that rips!

Does anyone have any idea why my cheapo Echo smokes like a chimney when I shut it off and SMELLS!?!?!

I have never bought an echo from home depot. They are p.o.s. homeowner machines from the dealer or the depot.

fobaum
06-08-2010, 10:23 PM
The new echos dont run hot at all (cboy), less heat longer life one of the reasons they went w/ the 1 ring piston. Ive said it before but ill say it again if you haven't used a 265 or bigger your not talking true commercial trimmer and trust me they're bullet proof if live in south florida home of a million LCO's and everyone's using them, wonder why......:dizzy: Im done w/ this thead have fun guys I'm gonna make some money w/ my cheap echo's:laugh:

seabee24
06-08-2010, 11:14 PM
you guys know all you have to do is remove the screen and then tune the motor.

i admit the red max seems pretty well built, but i can buy 3 echos for the price of 2 red max.

FYS777
06-08-2010, 11:38 PM
well , do not remove screen if you live in fire danger country!!
I can buy 4 echo's here for the price of 2 rad max! that means if i had 4 echos that last 6 years i could, if i use 2 per year that would mean 12 years. Wow i would be 63 by that time, that is making me feel old. :) :)

4 seasons lawn&land
06-09-2010, 12:29 AM
you guys know all you have to do is remove the screen and then tune the motor.

i admit the red max seems pretty well built, but i can buy 3 echos for the price of 2 red max.

not mechanically inclined. Tell me what you mean.

Alan0354
06-09-2010, 02:27 AM
Guys, if you think Echo is that bad, buy another brand!!!:laugh::laugh:

My little Echo HC151 is holding up good, but then it is a five year old model, so that don't count for you guys.

Go get the FS80, Husky 326LS, these are still old models, older is better!!!

TLS
06-09-2010, 09:10 AM
not mechanically inclined. Tell me what you mean.

Your in the wrong business man!

4 seasons lawn&land
06-09-2010, 06:57 PM
You dont know what hes talking about either. You've been solo for 30 years because no one will work for you.

TLS
06-09-2010, 09:21 PM
You dont know what hes talking about either. You've been solo for 30 years because no one will work for you.

I don't know what he's talking about? :confused:

He's talking about doing something to a string trimmer to make it perform better.

You asked what he meant by this, because your not mechanically inclined.

I replied that this isn't the business for you if you don't know how to maintain your own equipment.

That's me stating my opinion/suggestion.

You stated yours :nono: and..... your wrong!

No one has ever worked for me. I'm solo for 30 years because I choose to be.

4 seasons lawn&land
06-09-2010, 11:53 PM
"doing something to a string trimmer"??? You mean you dont know what? You must not be very mechanically inclined. Your in the wrong business.

TLS
06-09-2010, 11:57 PM
Keep going....your removing all doubt.
Posted via Mobile Device

jarabe1
06-21-2010, 01:09 AM
Your in the wrong business man!

wow,what at great one man show.

BadRancher
06-21-2010, 01:57 AM
Buy a real trimmer. Problem solved. You may be able to buy 3 Echos for the price of 2 Redmax, but if you are replacing them every 5 months???? If thats the case, Go get a homelite. You can get 5 of them for the price of 3 Echos. They'll probably last longer than the Echo....:dizzy:

FYS777
06-21-2010, 02:07 AM
I HAVE HAD MY ECHO's 6 SEASONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RDA
06-21-2010, 02:11 AM
I HAVE HAD MY ECHO's 6 SEASONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently, you are not abusive enough or you are simply letting it sit on the rack.

;)

No worries, I find the Echo bashers numerous, my PAS-265 runs great as do my other Echo units (and I own Redmax and Kawasaki as well).

Regards,

Rich

FYS777
06-21-2010, 02:19 AM
You are wrong! I run 12 to 14 hundred feet of string in the two echo's i have a season. That is not chicken feed!!!!!!!!

RDA
06-21-2010, 02:30 AM
You are wrong! I run 12 to 14 hundred feet of string in the two echo's i have a season. That is not chicken feed!!!!!!!!

I was being sarcastic, apparently you couldn't tell.

Regards,

Rich

RDA
06-21-2010, 02:32 AM
No worries, I find the Echo bashers numerous..


Well, "numerous" was supposed to be humorous (darn spell check).

Regards,

Rich

Alan0354
06-21-2010, 02:36 AM
Sounds like a lot of people like the new 265.

Jimslawncareservice
06-21-2010, 09:54 AM
i have a 230 from home depot. its going on its 3rd or 4th season. get used everyday. it been dropped, kicked, thrown, fallen out of trimmer rack. you name it, its been through it. not problems at all. bought a 265 this spring thinking to keep the 230 as a back up, but the helper keep wanting to use the 230 whick doesnt bother me. it has the same plug and just changer the air filter, never had any work done to it besides the air filter.

GlynnC
06-21-2010, 02:54 PM
i have a 230 from home depot. its going on its 3rd or 4th season. get used everyday. it been dropped, kicked, thrown, fallen out of trimmer rack. you name it, its been through it. not problems at all. bought a 265 this spring thinking to keep the 230 as a back up, but the helper keep wanting to use the 230 whick doesnt bother me. it has the same plug and just changer the air filter, never had any work done to it besides the air filter.

My experience also with the 230--except the kicked, fallen off trimmer rack part--it's been a very good trimmer for me. Compared to my Kawasaki, it's a bit heavy, but has been very reliable.

mnglocker
06-21-2010, 03:29 PM
I've got a hodge-podge of hand helds, Big brands are all just fine, as long as you run good non-oxy fuel, keep clean fuel filters in them and actually mix your 2 stroke correctly.

Buy the bottles that will make a predetermined amount, 2 gallon or 5 or when ever. Get a good gas can with lids to keep the fuel clean and dry. dump the mix in the can and add the correct amount of fuel via the meter on the pump. Then you'll have fuel mixed right and a wolrd without as many problems.

I've got an SRM-210 that runs 5 days a week for the last 3 years, no problems. I've got another SRM-2100 from home depot that's 10 years old, sure it's not a powerfull as it once was but it still starts and runs fine.

genesis215
06-21-2010, 07:31 PM
Did you ever adjust the high-speed needle on your Echo's? Just curious.

GlynnC
06-21-2010, 11:36 PM
Did you ever adjust the high-speed needle on your Echo's? Just curious.

230-no, 2100-yes, handheld blowers (older Echos)-many times!

Alan0354
06-21-2010, 11:51 PM
Did you ever adjust the high-speed needle on your Echo's? Just curious.

Nop, my HC151 start like a champ and no warmup needed in the last 5 years.

Keith
06-22-2010, 12:09 AM
I started out with Echo. I kept using them because it's what my dealers usually pushed, and the price was right. I think I had five or more SRM-2400's, probably that many PE-2400's, and several other pieces. They usually started giving me problems at about month 9. I kept spare carbs and plenty of popsicle sticks.

It was not until 1998 when I bought my first Shindaiwa, that I found that cleaning exhaust ports was not routine maintenance with every brand. I burned a lot of money on Echo stuff. The only Echo piece I have had since then is a SHC-225. I love the size and the way it handles small hedges, but it already has that sound. The one like it's running under water. And it has a high-pitched whine in the gearbox. Hey, it does have upwards of 10 hours on it :laugh: No wonder dealers love Echo. It's guaranteed work :drinkup:

troyota71
06-23-2010, 11:12 PM
We have the same problem with the 755T blower. Found out it was the carburetor going bad, five blowers, five bad carburetors. Found them on ebay for less than $50.00 each. We just replace them each spring with the pre-season tune-ups. Might be the same cause.

I have 2 echo blowers a pb-750 & pb755t and never a prob.7 years for the 750 and 3 years for the 755t

troyota71
06-23-2010, 11:14 PM
I'm having some issues with my echo pb770 blower too. I purchased it in April and it starts up fine in the morning. However, when you go from one job to the next, and try to restart the blower, it won't start without having to reprime the engine and open the choke. I found that strange since no other piece of handheld equipment I have ever owned has ever done this. I've never been a big fan of Echo and with each piece of equipment I own from them, my opinion continues to decline. From chainsaws, to trimmers, to blowers, they make a lot of noise but never get the job done unlike Stihl, Redmax, Shindaiwa, etc. They're not perfect but they're more dependable and get the job done from my perspective.

Check your fuel tank vent.In hot weather you can get a vapor lock.

Andyshine77
06-24-2010, 01:41 AM
I didn't get a chance to read this whole thread, but I'll do my best to answer the OP question on why his trimmers are failing.

First it has nothing to to with the Zama carbs, Zama carbs are just as good as Walbro or tillotson carbs. The number one cause of OPE two cycle engine failure is lean seizure. As of now the EPA regulations are forcing most manufactures to tune their 2 cycle equipment extremely lean to meet the new epa emission standards. Any good dealer will pull the limiters off the needles and adjust the carb correctly before it goes out the door, but sadly most dealers don't take the time to do this this. Also many old school {non strato} 2 cycle now have catalytic converters in the exhaust cans. This creates excessive heat and back pressure, two things that are not good for any 2 smoker. Bad fuel/oil is the second most common reason for failure. Good oil at 50:1 with fresh fuel is very very important.

If you don't have the ability to properly tune a carb on your own equipment I recommend staying away from new standard 2 cycle equipment, and going with a strato 2 cycle, or a 4-mix type of engine. These engines naturally run cleaner so they aren't tuned too lean from the factory.

Alan0354
06-24-2010, 02:26 AM
If you don't have the ability to properly tune a carb on your own equipment I recommend staying away from new standard 2 cycle equipment, and going with a strato 2 cycle, or a 4-mix type of engine. These engines naturally run cleaner so they aren't tuned too lean from the factory.

I thought the non strato is better because it does not run as lean. The strato is hard to start and need long warmup. I bought my Shindaiwa M242 which has a cat converter. It is easy to start, not much warmup. I just use 60:1 Amsoil to give more than the recommended oil. I just looked at it today, nice oil film on the piston, plenty of oil. Piston is still shinny...like new.

Beside, most of the trimmer carbs are non adjustable. I know mine can but from looking at the spark plug and the fact it is easy start and all, I don't think it is running lean at all. I use another of the same trimmer and was exactly the same. So this should be standard on this model.

As for those hybrid 4 cycles like 4Mix and C4, I have the C4 hand held blower. I took the valve cover off one time and there was a lot of oil when I use 40:1 or 50:1. They seems to be able to separate the oil out better than the 2 cycle and you don't need as much oil in the mix.

Andyshine77
06-24-2010, 02:55 AM
I thought the non strato is better because it does not run as lean. The strato is hard to start and need long warmup. I bought my Shindaiwa M242 which has a cat converter. It is easy to start, not much warmup. I just use 60:1 Amsoil to give more than the recommended oil. I just looked at it today, nice oil film on the piston, plenty of oil. Piston is still ...like new.

Beside, most of the trimmer carbs are non adjustable. I know mine can but from looking at the spark plug and the fact it is easy start and all, I don't think it is running lean at all. I use another of the same trimmer and was exactly the same. So this should be standard on this model.

As for those hybrid 4 cycles like 4Mix and C4, I have the C4 hand held blower. I took the valve cover off one time and there was a lot of oil when I use 40:1 or 50:1. They seems to be able to separate the oil out better than the 2 cycle and you don't need as much oil in the mix.

If you have trouble with your strato engines it's not tuned correctly. Strato engines simply scavenge unburnt exhaust gases, this is why they have reduce emissions, besides that they operate like any other 2 cycle. 4 mix engines run cooler, also the top of valves are not in the combustion chamber so the oil never gets burned off.

A shinny piston skirt is actually as sign of ware. What you want to see is machining marks, these marks or groves trap oil and aid in lubrication. When the polishing advances the piston to cylinder gap grows, and eventually the piston will start to slap against the cylinder walls.

The carbs on all trimmers are adjustable, you just need the right tools or trim the limiter tabs off the needles. The carb tools are very very cheep, $5.00 to $10.00 http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.edgeandengine.com/webstore/images/ip006979thumb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.edgeandengine.com/webstore/wecs.php%3Fstore%3Dedge%26action%3Dcategory_view%26target%3D305503&usg=__CBglUFi7k8e5f5gJ1gscKs4oBI4=&h=125&w=125&sz=3&hl=en&start=17&sig2=ZBauQ5EbiwZiWEMBHEn6EQ&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=xBnubzPDgcyZeM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsmall%2Bengine%2Bcarb%2Btuning%2Btools%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DG%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=1PEiTKbnAsHcnAe9tpDADw Tuning by the color of the spark plug is subjective at best, The only accurate way to tune a carb on small 2 cycle engines is by ear or with an inductive tachometer.

Andy.:)

topsites
06-24-2010, 03:05 AM
I have never, ever seen a catalytic converter on any off road equipment.
That's why it's off road, it is exempt from EPA pollution standards,
race cars don't have them, why should our stuff?

I own a good two dozen different types, hand helds, riders, walk behinds,
2 cycle, 4 mix, you name it, not a one of these and none of any other
machine I have ever looked at had a catalytic.

Every last one goes straight from the exhaust port into the muffler,
you can't fit a cat inside that small a device, in most cases a catalytic
makes for a separate component so you'd in effect have two mufflers (or
at least that's what it would look like).

I've even ran offroad leaded fuel in most all of them at one time or another,
if the equipment would have had a cat, the lead would have fused the
little balls inside all into a big bad clump and clogged the exhaust completely!

Not to mention, a catalytic would easily double the cost of hand held stuff.

Andyshine77
06-24-2010, 03:32 AM
I have never, ever seen a catalytic converter on any off road equipment.
That's why it's off road, it is exempt from EPA pollution standards,
race cars don't have them, why should our stuff?

I own a good two dozen different types, hand helds, riders, walk behinds,
2 cycle, 4 mix, you name it, not a one of these and none of any other
machine I have ever looked at had a catalytic.

Every last one goes straight from the exhaust port into the muffler,
you can't fit a cat inside that small a device, in most cases a catalytic
makes for a separate component so you'd in effect have two mufflers (or
at least that's what it would look like).

I've even ran offroad leaded fuel in most all of them at one time or another,
if the equipment would have had a cat, the lead would have fused the
little balls inside all into a big bad clump and clogged the exhaust completely!

Not to mention, a catalytic would easily double the cost of hand held stuff.

Check your facts before posting. All E-TECH Husquavarna 2 cycle engines have cats in the exhaust can, as do many other brands, even Stihl. http://www.stihlusa.com/corporate/history-products1980s.html http://www.epa.gov/oms/equip-ld.htm 2011 is coming quick and many of you favorite models will soon be discontinued because they don't meet the new standards. The 4 mix engines and strato engines do not need cats as the run clean.

Alan0354
06-24-2010, 03:55 AM
The cat converter is inside the muffler. You will notice it is heavier. I was surprised how heavy the muffler of the M242.

I don't think piston shinny is from wear, the engine has too low hours and I look at it often and it always look like that from day one.

I know the carb can be adjusted. I have the Shindaiwa part number but I cannot order it. Do you know where can I get one. Mine is the M242 which has the same engine as the T242.

Andyshine77
06-24-2010, 04:37 AM
The cat converter is inside the muffler. You will notice it is heavier. I was surprised how heavy the muffler of the M242.

I don't think piston shinny is from wear, the engine has too low hours and I look at it often and it always look like that from day one.

I know the carb can be adjusted. I have the Shindaiwa part number but I cannot order it. Do you know where can I get one. Mine is the M242 which has the same engine as the T242.

It is from wear, it can happen in a few minutes, it normally starts at the bottom of the skirt and works it's way up to the rings.

I haven't worked on many Shin's even though I own a Shin blower. Looking at the IPL it looks different than the normal Splined or Double D driver, it may be single D, but I'm not sure. http://www.edgeandengine.com/webstore/wecs.php?store=edge&action=display&target=HOM+308535001 Do you have the Shin part number?

Andyshine77
06-24-2010, 04:49 AM
Here is a pic of a good looking piston, if you look closely you can see the machining ridges. All pistons should look like this from the top to the bottom of the skirt.

Andyshine77
06-24-2010, 04:54 AM
This piston is still looks OK, but it does show ware, and most machining marks are gone, this was caused by improper lubrication.

Alan0354
06-24-2010, 03:04 PM
Hi Andy

I forgot to mention, yes the shinny piston has machine tool mark on, it is still shinny as from day one.

I know you are one of the go to guy in chainsaw forum together with Lakeside. I had been reading there before. Your observation seems to be different from people here.

I am no expert like Richard Martin, I am a small engine freak more so than lawn guy. I bought about 10 used trimmer engines on ebay to open up and look at. Those include Stihl 4Mix, Homescaper, Shindaiwa T260, Echo SRM260, Maruyama, Poulan etc. I can tell you they are all worn, but none of the piston look like your pictures. Common thing about the piston is they all are very dull dark color with vertical lines ( scratches due to moving up and down). The Echo engine had the first ring gum tight into the piston and the second ring is holding compression. ( this is the reason I am scaptical about the single ring engine. They might last as long wear wise, but don't have the second ring to hold compression if the first ring freezed up.)

Maybe saw is different from trimmers or the way they are used. The picture Richard shown is more in line with my observation....well his look a whole hack of a lot better than the ones I took apart!!! As I said, you can read posts after posts people use Amsoil at 80:1 for years and all their equipments last. Deposit seems to be more of a problem here. None of my old engines look clean like your pictures. They al have black stuff on the top of the piston.

Also oil really don't seemed to be very important here. People using Walmart oil and their equipments last!!! I am not trying to talk bad about Stihl, I know almost all people using Stihl chainsaw. From the post here, seems like Stihl is very particular on what kind of oil and gas you use. Other brands don't seems to have that issue at all and their equipment last. And very few people tinker with the carb here and their equipments seems to last a long time.

This is just my observation. Don't mean to offend you.

genesis215
06-24-2010, 05:10 PM
I thought the non strato is better because it does not run as lean. The strato is hard to start and need long warmup.

I have a Redmax GZ400 Strato-Charged chainsaw, and I have run a Redmax HEZ2601F edger, and a Redmax EBZ8000 and EBZ7001 backpack blower, and they all start within 2 or three pulls. Stratos aren't hard to start, they start very easily. But some do need warmup like my chainsaw. The 8000 and 7001 I used didn't need warmup at all. Now on the trimmers all you need to do is flip it upside down and hold it wide open, and it won't need to warmup hardly at all. Also use the throttle lock when starting.

Andyshine77
06-24-2010, 05:32 PM
No offense taken whatsoever. Yup scuffing and vertical scoring is much worse than polishing. 80:1 seems to be working for you and that cool. The problem I have with lean oil mix ratios is less margin for error.

Two rings in a 2 stroke engine does very little, what happens to one ring usually happens to the second ring. Ring sticking is almost always caused by crappy oil.

Some carbon on the piston crown is normal, but add bad oil, tuning and fuel, carbon can buildup in a hurry. Excessive carbon build can cause carbon scoring and kill a top end in no time.

Most trimmers, blowers and and hand held OPE spin slower than chainsaws and is likely why some can get buy with lean oil mix ratios.

Thanks for the comments about how good my piston looks lol, good oil and proper tuning is key.

Alan0354
06-24-2010, 07:17 PM
I have a Redmax GZ400 Strato-Charged chainsaw, and I have run a Redmax HEZ2601F edger, and a Redmax EBZ8000 and EBZ7001 backpack blower, and they all start within 2 or three pulls. Stratos aren't hard to start, they start very easily. But some do need warmup like my chainsaw. The 8000 and 7001 I used didn't need warmup at all. Now on the trimmers all you need to do is flip it upside down and hold it wide open, and it won't need to warmup hardly at all. Also use the throttle lock when starting.

I agree with the blowers. I have the Maru BL8100 which is the same as Kawi KRB750. It is strato type of engine because you can see the side plate on the cylinder wall and cut out on the piston that prove to have some air passage. Always 2 pull start, as soon as I put on my back, I can pull full rpm. Never heard of complain with RM blowers either. Complains are mainly the strato trimmers.

Alan0354
06-24-2010, 07:18 PM
No offense taken whatsoever. Yup scuffing and vertical scoring is much worse than polishing. 80:1 seems to be working for you and that cool. The problem I have with lean oil mix ratios is less margin for error.

Two rings in a 2 stroke engine does very little, what happens to one ring usually happens to the second ring. Ring sticking is almost always caused by crappy oil.

Some carbon on the piston crown is normal, but add bad oil, tuning and fuel, carbon can buildup in a hurry. Excessive carbon build can cause carbon scoring and kill a top end in no time.

Most trimmers, blowers and and hand held OPE spin slower than chainsaws and is likely why some can get buy with lean oil mix ratios.

Thanks for the comments about how good my piston looks lol, good oil and proper tuning is key.

I always run 60:1, never have the heart to run at 80:1, forget the 100:1. I am just saying a lot of people here does 80:1.

genesis215
06-24-2010, 07:43 PM
Husqvarna and Dolmar have used 1-ring engines in their high-rpm/high-performance chainsaws for years. They don't have any longevity problems over 2-ring engines. 1-ring engines like the Echo Power Boost Vortex are not the problem. It's the lean-set carbs (which can be adjusted richer) that are the problem. In fact that Echo engine is very high technology with 75% tighter piston-to-cylinder wall tolerances and a thicker ring that will make it outlast a 2-ring engine due to less friction and heat. You just have to adjust the high speed needle richer so it runs better and gets more lubrication. As far as I can tell from IPL's all of the Echo trimmers have high-speed adjustment screws that are currently in production. The new PB-770 blower does not have any adjustment.

Alan0354
06-26-2010, 03:03 PM
No offense taken whatsoever. Yup scuffing and vertical scoring is much worse than polishing. 80:1 seems to be working for you and that cool. The problem I have with lean oil mix ratios is less margin for error.

Two rings in a 2 stroke engine does very little, what happens to one ring usually happens to the second ring. Ring sticking is almost always caused by crappy oil.

Some carbon on the piston crown is normal, but add bad oil, tuning and fuel, carbon can buildup in a hurry. Excessive carbon build can cause carbon scoring and kill a top end in no time.

Most trimmers, blowers and and hand held OPE spin slower than chainsaws and is likely why some can get buy with lean oil mix ratios.

Thanks for the comments about how good my piston looks lol, good oil and proper tuning is key.

I was thinking about the cat converter and lean burning that cause increase in temperature.


The thing is this is a given. This become parameters when designing a new engine. This only become a problem when manufacturer upgrade an old trimmer design with a cat converter and lean down the mix. The old engine designed with certain cooling specification and all of a sudden you put more heat load and yes the temperature will rise. Good example is Shindaiwa T260, T230 and T272. They just slap on the cat converter and lean the carb. That might really hurt.

But for a new design that ground up with cat converter and lean burning as specification like the new Shindaiwa T242 and T280. Engineer should take that into consideration and increase the cylinder fin surface area, better insulation from heat of the muffler, better air circulation, big ring contact surface to the cylinder to conduct heat from the piston to the cylinder etc. This is an engineering issure and it can be done right. Remember in the 70s when changing to unlead gas, people winding about engine won't last, but the new engines last longer using unlead gas!!! Why? because it was design to take the unlead gas!!!

What I am try to say is lean runing with cat converter don't make the engine run hotter, bad design will. So back to the question, in order to prove one way or the other, someone has to measure the operating temperature of eg. Shindaiwa T242, Echo SRM265 etc and compare to the old trimmer and see if it really is hotter. And at that, it is only because of bad design, not the cat converter or lean burning.

A bad design can make a 4 cycle engine overheat regardless.

Andyshine77
06-28-2010, 06:00 AM
If the engine was designed to run with a cat muffler, than yes they will likely run OK. However most of these engines were not originally designed to run with cat mufflers, and often times they make both cat and non cat versions. From what I've seen the only change made is the cat muffler, and they do make these engines run hotter.

Remember on small engines the heat from combustion isn't carried away from the engine like on larger engines with headers, the heat is trapped in the can that is mounted directly to the cylinder. Cats are really more of a cheep easy way to reduce emissions, a band-aid fix really. strato and 4-mix engines are the way to go if you can't find a conventional 2 cycle non cat piece of equipment.:)

Alan0354
06-28-2010, 12:11 PM
I agree, I think Echo 265, 280, Shindaiwa T242 and T280 are ground up design with cat converter. Shindaiwa T231, T261 and T272 sadly are patch up conversion!!!

StihlBR600
07-09-2010, 08:52 PM
Your biggest mistake was buying an echo. If you want the best man up and get a Stihl. your wasting your time with under powered homeowner quality trimmers

capnsac
07-09-2010, 09:14 PM
I have tried 210's, 225s and even the pro 230 and I cannot get a echo weedeater to last more then 5 months!!! I use it for commercial use 5 days a week and these things start to go out. I change the plug, air filter every month if not more and use echo synthetic mixing oil. What happens is the motor will start bogging (not reving as high). At first the motor will store to lose power but I can still find the sweet spot with the string length but this only works for about a month until it will barely spin the head. Also right when they start to go bad, they will run decent for weedeating but when flipped upside down to edge, it will lose almost all power and barely spins but will regain power when flipped back to normal position. I even changed the carb on my last echo and it didn't fix the bogging problem. Does anyone know why these motor's start to lose power and how I can maybe fix the engines when they go bad? Any help would be appreciated.

Try the 265 or greater, I haven't had any problems

ed2hess
07-10-2010, 12:20 AM
Your biggest mistake was buying an echo. If you want the best man up and get a Stihl. your wasting your time with under powered homeowner quality trimmersFunny but I got a whole bunch of echo trimmers that have run for many years in very very high use. How can that happen? And by the way I run stihl....and if you select the correct models there isn't that much difference. The 600 is definitely not on my wish list however.

streamlight2
01-25-2011, 09:09 PM
Just wanted to clarify, if anyone is reading these posts. I have found that the best way to tune a carburetor is by ear, and always turn the adjustment screws in small increments something like 1/8 of a turn. post #64 gives the general idea.

CircleC
01-25-2011, 09:30 PM
I have had the same problem....I bet you take the guard off! I did...

I run a 210, trimmer is on its 2nd year and it started to bog down and I just could not find the sweet spot. I took the muffler off and used degresser to clean up tiny screen on the inside of the muffler. It would run sweet for a few days then be back to no power and slow string speed. Finally I took it to the dealer I use for everything. This is what he told me....."you can not take the gaurd off. The guard prevents the user from putting too much string out. By putting too much string out this over heats the engine and causes the engine issues. ECHO has placed the guard at the correct distance for string anything over will damage the engine causing failure. Dealer says they will not work on a trimmer without the gaurd on it due to engine failure.

I have adjusted the carb cleaned out muffler exaust and it still has issues....so I'm going to go with a 265 and leave gaurd on and see what happens!

Good Luck!

Alan0354
01-25-2011, 10:02 PM
I think you are asking too much from a 21cc engine. It has to work hard even with the guard. Get the bigger engine. I take that you clean the exhaust port when you have the muffler removed.

StihlBR600
01-25-2011, 10:46 PM
Haha its common sense....dont buy pieces of **** echo's!!!

RDA
01-26-2011, 12:47 AM
Haha its common sense....dont buy pieces of **** echo's!!!

These types of idiotic comments simply boggle my mind. I run Echo, Stihl, Kawasaki, Husqvarna, etc. Echo makes some very good products, you tend to get what you pay for, you buy the residential end of the line and it likely isn't going to last as long in commercial applications as the higher end of the line. Same holds true for most of the manufacturers.

My father and I had a Stihl chainsaw that was the biggest piece of junk ever made, nothing but problems. Does that make all Stihl's pieces of sh!t? I would imagine you would disagree as well as some others.

Regards,

Rich

K/B
01-26-2011, 07:57 AM
Haha its common sense....dont buy pieces of **** echo's!!!

With all due respect, that is an immature, ignorant and idiotic comment.

These types of idiotic comments simply boggle my mind. I run Echo, Stihl, Kawasaki, Husqvarna, etc. Echo makes some very good products, you tend to get what you pay for, you buy the residential end of the line and it likely isn't going to last as long in commercial applications as the higher end of the line. Same holds true for most of the manufacturers.

My father and I had a Stihl chainsaw that was the biggest piece of junk ever made, nothing but problems. Does that make all Stihl's pieces of sh!t? I would imagine you would disagree as well as some others.

Regards,

Rich

He's 18 years old. That answers a lot of questions.

grassman177
01-26-2011, 09:46 AM
bunch of dumb bold statments in this thread.

we have used echo for amost 30 years with no issues. occasionally a carb needs replaced, but only after a couple of years use.

i would say you having carb issues has to do with either ethanol or the mix ratio.

our trimmers last 4 years on average and the exhaust ports need cleaned about once per year, twice on older units and this is 99% of the issue when dealing with power loss.

StihlBR600
01-26-2011, 10:03 AM
Well the topic of this thread is "Echo weedeaters going out every 5 months" for all those who cant read. Dont you think if you had a product that consistantly broke every 5 months you would switch to something else? Why would you stay with the same piece of junk if its not realiable? Ive been using the same Stihl FS90R for three years now and i havent hand one single issue with it. All of my handhelds are stihl and i havent had one thing break on ANY of them. Why do you think Stihl is the number one brand of handheld equipment?

RDA
01-26-2011, 11:08 AM
Well the topic of this thread is "Echo weedeaters going out every 5 months" for all those who cant read. Dont you think if you had a product that consistantly broke every 5 months you would switch to something else? Why would you stay with the same piece of junk if its not realiable? Ive been using the same Stihl FS90R for three years now and i havent hand one single issue with it. All of my handhelds are stihl and i havent had one thing break on ANY of them. Why do you think Stihl is the number one brand of handheld equipment?

Did you ever consider that maybe it isn't the equipment but the operator?

Let's see, I have these trucks that I drive, I keep sliding off the road and wrecking into poles when it snows, I blame the snow, the roads, my tires, the local township, the lack of road maintenance, etc.

Rich - reads and writes just fine thank you.

grassman177
01-26-2011, 01:06 PM
there are lemons and everyone has had one. but that many lemons is not common. operator and or fuel are the issue. most trimmers use the same brand of carb anyhow, but some are better than others.

as many on here have mentioned though, the lower number models are really for part timers and homeowners. a min of a srm-265 is needed to get to a commercial machine.

we run srm 311s and 285ts. the new ones are really solid.

we did try a srm 240 or something like that once, and it was ok, but def not as rugged as the higher cc engines.

it is also the pricipal of wrong tool for the job.

it is like a mechanic buying only china made tools. he will go through a lot of them for the offset in price!

Alan0354
01-26-2011, 01:43 PM
Being not exactly a fan of Echo, but from my own experience and from reading tons of post here for the last almost 4 years. Echo got to be the most reliable brand. I am saying this without bias as I specify from the first sentence that I am not in favor of Echo, I am a known fan of Maruyama.

It is NOT often people complain about reliability of Echo products compare to the other big brand like Stihl, Shindaiwa. Redmax do have good reliability record too but the cold nature pretty much defeat all that. Just spend a day or two like me reading through the old threads and you'll see.

People just have the impression that the cheaper 21cc Echo are home owner stuff, but based on feedback, they are every bit as reliable as the expensive ones and I can attest to this, My HC151 is the most reliable piece in my collection even thought I put it through abuse.

The latest case here was running the 21cc without guard!! I am surprise it even can do it. It is a 21cc!!!!

StihlBR600
01-26-2011, 04:54 PM
But also understand i dont even bother wasting money on low end crap. If its not the best, i dont buy it. Thats what im sticking to because its never failed me so far.

krackerjack9
01-26-2011, 06:44 PM
I have a customer who is a fuel specialist/engineer at Flint Hills refinery here in Corpus Christi,tx. This issue came up a few weeks back on all sorts of hand held power tools failing after a few months. Generally this happend in the spring ( homeonwner mainly but some high end contractors as well) . The problem lies with the fuel lines and the substitution of alchol in the gasoline. Certain types of fuel lines last a good while others dont. The problem is that when a 2cycle oil is added to the gasoline he says this causes the alchol to seperate to some degree. Now this has to happen over time, this is when the winter season comes into play and there is still mix in the engines of what ever brand of trimer or chainsaw ect. He said if you upgrade your fuel lines should never have a issue latter.

Alan0354
01-26-2011, 09:43 PM
I use 91 octane, blue Stabil and a touch of SeaFoam. Never have a single problem in the last 5 years. My El Cheapo Echo HC151 took even more abuse, for 2 year, I don't even know about gas going bad, it had regular gas, no Stabil and sit for extended period of time. Never miss a beat. It has been the most reliable piece of equipment for me. I am using it for compacting cut branches up to 5/8" in the recycle can all the time to stuff more in. I have been doing this for the last 2 years and I thought the blade must be dull. Wrong, I used it to trim my long row of boxwood and it worked beautifully. Boxwood must be one of the most demanding type for hedge trimmer because it is so thick. Still has a lot of life on it.....And Yes, I bought it in Home Crapo for $250 only at the time!!! It is the "cheap" homeowner type!!!

I think Echo is not something you have emotion towards it like some other brands. Nobody glorify Echo here, it is just a work horse that you kick it around and keep on ticking. Just like me using it for chopping branches and save the easy work for my Maruyama so I can baby it!!!!:laugh:

soloscaperman
01-27-2011, 12:52 AM
As long as you mix the right fuel and oil and use high octane gas your golden.

bladesnshades
01-27-2011, 01:53 AM
I'm new to the business, got in Aug. last year. So i have a lot to learn. Been reading this thread now for over an hour, yea i'm a slow reader! Ton of technical information here that i did'nt know. I appreciate it, been takin notes like a mofo.

grassman177
01-27-2011, 09:41 AM
how you liking the bad boys Blades and Shades?

bladesnshades
01-27-2011, 09:11 PM
Like em alot so far, put a Mibar snow plow on the outlaw but now it's turning Spring like. Just my luck! Both seem to be built like a tank. Time will tell.
Took my Maruyama"s apart today, still very new so haven't had any of the carbon problems mentioned before but did take screens off the exhaust. Think i'll hang onto to em for warranty purposes tho. Heard very little over all about the Maruyama brand on here, hope i don't regret that! So far i like em, sounds like everyone has different views on what works and doesn't work. For me this is like goin' to school without the tuition!
thanks again.

FYS777
01-27-2011, 10:36 PM
ECHO's all the way!!!!!!!!!!starting my 8th season on my 210 eaters in which i run about 14 hundred feet of string through two trimmers a season, 6th season on my 413h blower 6th season on my 150 hedger. and still no problems.

BINKY1902
01-27-2011, 10:45 PM
My main trimmer is the 110 Stihl. I have an echo srm-225 as my backup, and it has been great. I've been using it for going on four years without problems. Less power than the 110 Stihl of course but it serves it's purpose.

Alan0354
01-27-2011, 11:09 PM
Like em alot so far, put a Mibar snow plow on the outlaw but now it's turning Spring like. Just my luck! Both seem to be built like a tank. Time will tell.
Took my Maruyama"s apart today, still very new so haven't had any of the carbon problems mentioned before but did take screens off the exhaust. Think i'll hang onto to em for warranty purposes tho. Heard very little over all about the Maruyama brand on here, hope i don't regret that! So far i like em, sounds like everyone has different views on what works and doesn't work. For me this is like goin' to school without the tuition!
thanks again.

I love Maruyama. I have the big BL8100 blower for close to 3 years and I just bought the HT2321L 30" double side hedge trimmer. Love it. They are both not cold nature. 2 pull start, as soon as I put the blower on my back, it is ready to rock. As soon as I spray Fluid Film onto the blades of the hedge trimmer, it is ready to pull full rpm. What can you not like. The blower is spec the quietest of all the big blowers ( you can trust this because it is an EPA standard, not like the cfm or mph lies!!!). The hedge trimmer is so quiet that the only one come close is the Honda GX25. You almost don't need ear muff!!! It cut very very well.

I think it is an up and coming brand. Buy it while it is cheaper. I got my blower for $389 and the hedge trimmer for $389 also. The price has gone up like $50 in the past year, so if you want to buy, now is a good time. They are like $100 cheaper than all other big brands.

I know this is an Echo thread and I have a lot of respect towards Echo and I always defend Echo from people that call it "cheap"!! But I'll take Maruyama any time of the day.

Alan0354
01-27-2011, 11:15 PM
My main trimmer is the 110 Stihl. I have an echo srm-225 as my backup, and it has been great. I've been using it for going on four years without problems. Less power than the 110 Stihl of course but it serves it's purpose.

SRM210 or 225 is one of the most reliable trimmer around. I charllenge you to find threads here that they have bad experience with it. Now now, forget those that call it cheap because it is only $210 and sell in Home Crapo. If you get pass that, it is a solid trimmer......Just a 21cc engine though, don't even think about taking the guard off and then come here and cry about why it don't last!!!! You want blood??!!