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View Full Version : Synthetic 2 cycle oil mix ratio


ed2hess
06-05-2010, 05:30 PM
I am in the process of switching from Echo oil to Schaeffer 2-cycle synthetic oil. I read on lawnsite all the time that you can go to 80:1. Where is the source of this recommendation? Anybody know if trimmer technical people have agreed with this?

I am a little hesitant since I have been running 50:1 and the only problem is port and piston getting dirty. I am now into the 4-mix stuff and I don't want those valves getting dirty.

Turf Dawg
06-05-2010, 07:48 PM
I think it depends on the oil. I have seen some syns that say 50:1 but my Amsoil Sabre recomends 100:1. I mix it at 80:1 though because the 8oz bottle will make 5 gallons of 80:1 mix [two 2.5 gallons for me]

milkie62
06-05-2010, 10:55 PM
I have been using Amsoil exclusively for about 7 years now on everything---saws,mowers,boats,and snowmobiles.
My Amsoil dealer said even though he sells the stuff he would never go 100:1.He told me he mixes 80:1 for all he small hand held equipment.You can never go wrong with 50:1 on a quality oil.I usually mix at 40:1 with no problems.

Pennington Lawncare
06-06-2010, 12:30 AM
Amsoil Saber in my hand held stuff and Amsoil small engine oil in my mower. I've never heard of Schaeffer.

Alan0354
06-06-2010, 04:01 AM
I am in the process of switching from Echo oil to Schaeffer 2-cycle synthetic oil. I read on lawnsite all the time that you can go to 80:1. Where is the source of this recommendation? Anybody know if trimmer technical people have agreed with this?

I am a little hesitant since I have been running 50:1 and the only problem is port and piston getting dirty. I am now into the 4-mix stuff and I don't want those valves getting dirty.

What is the bottle say? Unless the bottle suggest leaner than 50:1, you really want to push it?

Do you mean 4Mix or C4? I know you have a bunch of T2510. Shindaiwa never suggess using full synthetic. You sure it matters? I am not sure C4 is that finicky about full synthetic or special gas.

Richard Martin
06-06-2010, 04:11 AM
I am in the process of switching from Echo oil to Schaeffer 2-cycle synthetic oil. I read on lawnsite all the time that you can go to 80:1. Where is the source of this recommendation? Anybody know if trimmer technical people have agreed with this?

I am a little hesitant since I have been running 50:1 and the only problem is port and piston getting dirty. I am now into the 4-mix stuff and I don't want those valves getting dirty.

And just how long have you been reading my posts Ed?

I've had 2 Stihl dealers tell me it is fine and would not void the warranty. If in doubt ask your dealer. They are the ultimate judge as to whether they would warranty 80:1 or not.

Alan0354
06-06-2010, 04:26 AM
Why not just go with Amsoil where a lot of people here use at 75:1 or 80:1 with very good success? I order the quart size direct from Amsoil and it's not that expensive.

So many people swear by Amsoil, me included!!

Richard Martin
06-06-2010, 07:39 AM
Schaeffer 2-cycle synthetic oil.

I don't recommend the use of this oil especially if your machines are still under warranty. Stihl can deny warranty based on the use of this oil alone. It is a TCW-3 oil. Stihl specifically says not to use TWC-3 oils in any of their engines.

It is also a parasynthetic which means it is a mix of regular oil and synthetic. Amsoil is a full synthetic.

dccarling
06-06-2010, 08:09 AM
Amsoil in eveything and 100:1 in all my 2-strokes. Been using it since 1975. When it comes to 2-strokes film strength is the name of the game and Amsoil at 100:1 has twice the film strength as petroleum at 50:1. I'm sure that any of you who have used it knows how much cooler and stronger your chain saws, weed wackers, blowers and other equipment runs.

Lehighlawnpros
06-06-2010, 05:25 PM
Hi Ed,
I've been using the Amsoil Saber Professional oil at about 80:1 in all of my Kawasaki 2-cycle equipment for about two years now with no problems.

ed2hess
06-06-2010, 10:43 PM
I don't recommend the use of this oil especially if your machines are still under warranty. Stihl can deny warranty based on the use of this oil alone. It is a TCW-3 oil. Stihl specifically says not to use TWC-3 oils in any of their engines.

It is also a parasynthetic which means it is a mix of regular oil and synthetic. Amsoil is a full synthetic.

I am actually running this experiment for the Echo/Shindawa distributor and he told me to use 50:1. I told him about the lawnsite info about 80:1 and he said they had no information that would lead them to that lean of a mix. I wondered where it came from The oil dealer for this oil is also involved and is furnishing the oil so I don't have any risk. I am switching about 40 pieces of equipment of all ages including the 4 new Shindawa 2510 trimmers. Only a few pieces of old stihl equipment in this experiment.

Turf Dawg
06-06-2010, 11:42 PM
I use it at 80:1 because it is easier for me to mix that way. The Amsoil that I use says on the bottle 100:1 so that is that MFG's recommendation. If the stuff you will be using says 50:1 then that is what I would personally mix it at. I do not think everyone just buys synthetic oil and automatically mixes it at 80:1. Really the only ones that I know of that recommend 100:1, [or 80:1] are the Amsoil Sabre and the Opti, [which is not even synthetic].

Alan0354
06-07-2010, 03:31 AM
I am actually running this experiment for the Echo/Shindawa distributor and he told me to use 50:1. I told him about the lawnsite info about 80:1 and he said they had no information that would lead them to that lean of a mix. I wondered where it came from The oil dealer for this oil is also involved and is furnishing the oil so I don't have any risk. I am switching about 40 pieces of equipment of all ages including the 4 new Shindawa 2510 trimmers. Only a few pieces of old stihl equipment in this experiment.

Ever try using Deep Creep, the spray version of SeaFoam. You use it to spray into the carb until the engine die, let it sit for 5 minutes and start to smoke it out to decarbon all the internal parts. Maybe you don't even need to change from Echo oil if you do that once every half a year.

Richard Martin
06-07-2010, 04:32 AM
I am actually running this experiment for the Echo/Shindawa distributor and he told me to use 50:1. The oil dealer for this oil is also involved and is furnishing the oil so I don't have any risk. I am switching about 40 pieces of equipment of all ages including the 4 new Shindawa 2510 trimmers. Only a few pieces of old stihl equipment in this experiment.

What are they trying to accomplish? You can use any old oil, probably even 80w90 gear oil in the short term and not notice anything. It's when the hours start to rack up, 500/600/1000 where the differences are found.

MikeKle
06-07-2010, 08:08 AM
Ever try using Deep Creep, the spray version of SeaFoam. You use it to spray into the carb until the engine die, let it sit for 5 minutes and start to smoke it out to decarbon all the internal parts. Maybe you don't even need to change from Echo oil if you do that once every half a year.

Where can you get this stuff? Does it really work, I mean have you actually opened the chamber up and looked at the pistons top and see if it cleaned it off or not? I am curious abnout this as I have heard many times, no product can clean off carbon by just putting some solution into the carb. Thanks.

Differential
06-08-2010, 12:06 AM
What is the bottle say? Unless the bottle suggest leaner than 50:1, you really want to push it?

Do you mean 4Mix or C4? I know you have a bunch of T2510. Shindaiwa never suggess using full synthetic. You sure it matters? I am not sure C4 is that finicky about full synthetic or special gas.

I've been running my Shindaiwa 2510 for about a month on Stihl synthetic and haven't had any problems. I haven't seen anything that says that they don't recommend full synthetic. Do you know where they say this or why?

Alan0354
06-08-2010, 01:03 AM
Where can you get this stuff? Does it really work, I mean have you actually opened the chamber up and looked at the pistons top and see if it cleaned it off or not? I am curious abnout this as I have heard many times, no product can clean off carbon by just putting some solution into the carb. Thanks.

I got it in PepBoy. It is the spray version of SeaFoam. People swear by it. I have not open the chamber of the 4 cycle C4. The 2 cycle stuff are all very clean, but I have low hours.

Deep Creep is made for this purpose so I would think it work since so many people swear by SeaFoam. If you don't use Deep Creep, you can still use SeaFoam with 2oz per gallon ( cleaning strength, normal use 1oz per gallon for maintenence) and run two tankful of it. That is known for cleaning deposit.

Alan0354
06-08-2010, 01:06 AM
I've been running my Shindaiwa 2510 for about a month on Stihl synthetic and haven't had any problems. I haven't seen anything that says that they don't recommend full synthetic. Do you know where they say this or why?

I meant Shindaiwa have not recomend using full synthetic. In fact they recommend using Shindaiwa One which is only a synthetic blend oil for sure. I personally don't like it. My Shindaiwa C4 blower choked on it's own brand's oil!!!! I used Echo Power Blend for a year before I switch to Amsoil and has been 2 years.

BTW, from the posts I read and talking to the dealer lately, I don't think there is a valve issue due to deposit that I heard of. I don't know whether it is necessary to use full synthetic. I know my friend was not using full synthetic on his M2510 for years until I gave him a bottle of Amsoil after he bought a Stihl BR550. I think he was just using what ever oil before.

I loaned him a can of Deep Creep and he has not use it yet!!! He claimed SeaFoam worked magic on his M2510.

Differential
06-08-2010, 01:12 AM
How do you like the Shindaiwa C4 blower? I've been eyeballing them.

Alan0354
06-08-2010, 01:18 AM
How do you like the Shindaiwa C4 blower? I've been eyeballing them.

I have the hand held EB3410, not the big EB8510. Always 3 pull start, NO warmup needed. Need I say more?

My dealer said they have issue with the 8510 and people seem to be afraid to try the 8520 so they don't know for sure. Now, I just relay what they said to you now, I have no knowledge. They said They don't have problem with the smaller 34cc or the 25cc engines. I love mine. I use it all year round except the leaf season, then I pull out the Maru big blower.

MikeKle
06-08-2010, 01:24 AM
I got it in PepBoy. It is the spray version of SeaFoam. People swear by it. I have not open the chamber of the 4 cycle C4. The 2 cycle stuff are all very clean, but I have low hours.

Deep Creep is made for this purpose so I would think it work since so many people swear by SeaFoam. If you don't use Deep Creep, you can still use SeaFoam with 2oz per gallon ( cleaning strength, normal use 1oz per gallon for maintenence) and run two tankful of it. That is known for cleaning deposit.

You all know many people consider sea foam and all related cleaning products to be 100% useless? I may try it on some old 2 stroke stuff and see for myself if it works or not. Has anyone tried this and what were the results?

Differential
06-08-2010, 01:25 AM
I have the Stihl BG55 handheld blower that's very lackluster. I've been thinking about replacing it. All of my accounts are residential, and I like having handhelds versus backpack. What was the approximate price you paid for your c4 blower?

Alan0354
06-08-2010, 01:40 AM
I have the Stihl BG55 handheld blower that's very lackluster. I've been thinking about replacing it. All of my accounts are residential, and I like having handhelds versus backpack. What was the approximate price you paid for your c4 blower?

I paid $259, ain't cheap. If money is an issue, take a look at the Maruyama BL3200. It is a 30cc 2 cycle 170mph and 459cfm at the tube. It would be very close to my Shindy. It used to be $209 but I think they just raised the price.

I never use the Stihl BG86 but I would put my bet on mine because it is 34cc vs 28cc. Also it is 1.4hp. To me it is the no warmup that is really nice. I usually let it warmup a little, but I did an experiment to rev it up right after it started, rev right on up. I bet if you do it on a 2 cycle, it will choke!!! It is heavier than others though. Go pick one up and see how you feel before buying it.

Alan0354
06-08-2010, 01:43 AM
You all know many people consider sea foam and all related cleaning products to be 100% useless? I may try it on some old 2 stroke stuff and see for myself if it works or not. Has anyone tried this and what were the results?

Do a search, there are a lot of people swear by it. My friend did also. I use it regularly and I have no issue with my stuff, I checked the muffler of all my two cycles and yet to have to clean anything yet.....well granted I don't put hours like you guys, but 5 years and none need even cleaning. The C4 muffler do get a little black, but no problem at all so far.

Differential
06-08-2010, 02:02 AM
I just looked up the Maruyama blower, and it has a 5 year commercial warranty! It looks really cool. I'll probably swing by my local Maru dealer this week and check them out.

I really like the C4 engines, but they are expensive.

Alan0354
06-08-2010, 03:40 AM
I just looked up the Maruyama blower, and it has a 5 year commercial warranty! It looks really cool. I'll probably swing by my local Maru dealer this week and check them out.

I really like the C4 engines, but they are expensive.

I always like Maruyama. I have their big BL8100 bp. I really like it. One thing, my experience and a lot of people here notice Maruyama engine need quite a few hours to break it in. I was surprised it became a lot stronger after 10+ hours of running. Quite a few people said that about the 30cc hand held blower.

I was playing with the maru hedge trimmer the other day, the blade was very sharp, much sharper than the Shindaiwa there. Their stuff just look very good, very well built.

BBOWL
09-21-2010, 04:11 PM
It has been fascinating and entertaining reading the posts about which oil brand/ratio is best. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse but I found this information on Tanaka's website. I think it solves the myth about oil ratio's in power equipment and I apppreciate Tanaka's honesty.



Q. How can Tanaka Perfect Mix accommodate my other brands of power equipment that require a different ratio than 50:1?
A. Oil is a blend of components. The bulk of it is a base stock, which is oil, but its primary purpose is not to lubricate, but rather to blend with, and carry, additives that provide specific functions. The most important additive is the one that provides the lubricity. Some people refer to this additive as "bright-stock". The base oil also can blend with and carry other additives designed to accomplish different things. For example, quality oils have an additive that helps maintain the integrity of the gasoline should it be stored as mixed fuel for extended periods. Another additive may help reduce exhaust smoke.

Oil took on a marketing theme many years ago. A company who made brand A product also sells oil. How do they protect their oil business and prevent customers from buying the competitors oil? Let's say for the sake of argument that an oil blend requires X amount of the lubricity additive to adequately run an engine. The manufacturer would then formulate an oil blend with the amount of additives to reach that level when mixed at the odd ratio they prescribe for their product. As you've seen, there are 16:1, 25:1, 32:1, 40:1 42:1, 50:1, etc. However, if you analyzed these oils, you'd find very similar amounts of the actual ingredients needed to provide the life allowing lubricity (even at these odd ratios). This has been a very effective way of convincing a customer who bought a unit requiring two cycle oil to buy their brand of oil. Who wants to take a chance on a $500 machine?? If it says 42:1, the customer assumes he needs to seek out a 42:1 oil.

Tanaka Perfect Mix is what's referred to as a one-mix oil. The oil is formulated so that when mixed at 50:1, or 2.6 ounces per gallon of fuel, it contains enough of the life-giving additives to work in any of these engines. Additionally, it goes a long way in simplifying the mixing of the oil with the self measuring bottle. There are other one-mix types of oil that mix at a ratio of 100:1. Most people would look at that and think that there simply isn't enough oil to allow the engine to survive, but again, it's not the amount of base stock that is the important issue. It's what is contained within the blend. Their blend has higher percentage of the additive than does an oil that mixes at 25:1.

One consideration to all of this is that some engines are simply not well made. Typically products sold through mass-merchandisers such as Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc. sell products designed for very low performance and limited engine life. They differ considerably in construction, using stamped connecting rods, non-plated cylinders, bushings where bearings belong, etc. These engines will not survive for extended periods with any oil - they're simply not designed to. In many cases, if a customer gets less than 50 hours of operation from such an engine, then the product has met the objective of the manufacturer. Oil cannot overcome quality / design issues to that extent.

This can be a very confusing situation, and the engine industry has to take the blame for complicating the issue. We would like to take a little credit for simplifying it.

lawnboy dan
09-21-2010, 06:13 PM
still 4 mix will not run well on twc3 oil .