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View Full Version : How much income should a two man employee only crew bring in in a day mowing?


jasonnau
06-05-2010, 11:43 PM
Alright, here's the low down. For the last 6 years it's always been myself and one employee mowing lawns. It's always been profitable for me doing this, but the work load keeps increasing every year, and I can't keep up with everything else in a timely manner with me being a part of the mowing crew This year I've got it to where I have two employees handling the entire mowing route so that I can handle everything else (mulching, meeting customers, pruning, etc.etc.. After breaking down the gross income for a weeks mowing (about 62 residential lawns). Minus income plus 15% for social security, workers comp, and unemployement, minus about $5 per hour for fuel in mowers and trucks, my employees are generating about $325-350 per day additional gross income. Is this good, or should it be better? Granted, it's been wet, and it's been spring cuts, and there time should improve, but I'm just curious what some of the other lcos are shooting for out of their crews. I by myself am generating at least as much, if not twice as much on my own doing everything else. I know that's not bad, but as for the employees, are they generating a realistic revenue. Now, I know I'm not counting the hidden expenses such as truck payments, insurance, etc.

topsites
06-05-2010, 11:46 PM
Depends who you talk to, according to one source $100 per man hour is a bit on the low side,
according to others 30 is all you can get, then everything in between and take your pick.

jasonnau
06-05-2010, 11:52 PM
It takes them about 36-38 hrs to complete the route. As an hourly income, they are each generating about $19 per hour. So, together, they are generating about $38/hr. This will improve with summer cuts. They are both relatively newbies as well.

nepatsfan
06-05-2010, 11:53 PM
i generally like to gross between $750-$850 out of a 2 man crew and its usually more like 9-9.5 hour days.

nepatsfan
06-05-2010, 11:55 PM
It takes them about 36-38 hrs to complete the route. As an hourly income, they are each generating about $19 per hour. So, together, they are generating about $38/hr. This will improve with summer cuts. They are both relatively newbies as well.

That is very low and I would think you would have a hard time covering your operating costs.

topsites
06-05-2010, 11:55 PM
i generally like to gross between $750-$850 out of a 2 man crew and its usually more like 9-9.5 hour days.

Gentlemen, start your engines.
And we're off, currently in first is nepatsfan followed closely by the pack,
jasonnau bringing up the rear he does seem a bit slow today, now rounding
the first turn...

We are hoping for a clean race today, lets keep the rubbing to a minimum.

jasonnau
06-05-2010, 11:55 PM
i generally like to gross between $750-$850 out of a 2 man crew and its usually more like 9-9.5 hour days.
Is that after expenses? Or before? If it's before, they do generate about 650-700 per day. Mind you, this is based on spring cuts, it's been wet and tall so far. This is the first week things have started into single cuts and not double or triple. It will improve. Not that I'm defending anything, I'm just trying to see if this is realistic or not.

Lbilawncare
06-05-2010, 11:58 PM
$38 an hour for two guys is way too low. Either they need to be more efficient or you need to raise prices.

nepatsfan
06-05-2010, 11:59 PM
Is that after expenses? Or before? If it's before, they do generate that much.

That is gross. If your employees are generating that much then they arent making 19 per hour. They are making more like 50 per hour for you. Your net profit might only be 350 per day but they are still generating 50 per hour.

jasonnau
06-06-2010, 12:00 AM
I know they need to be more efficient. As for prices, yeah, some are a little low, but most are realistic. If not a little above.

jasonnau
06-06-2010, 12:02 AM
That is gross. If your employees are generating that much then they arent making 19 per hour. They are making more like 50 per hour for you. Your net profit might only be 350 per day but they are still generating 50 per hour.

Together, they are generating roughly $38 per hour. I'm giving a little bit of a rough estimate here. Give me a little time and I'll give exact details

nepatsfan
06-06-2010, 12:06 AM
Together, they are generating roughly $38 per hour. I'm giving a little bit of a rough estimate here. Give me a little time and I'll give exact details

I am not sure I am following you then. you said you gross 650-700 in an eight hour day. thats like 80-90 per hour divided by two is 40-45 dollars per man hour.

jasonnau
06-06-2010, 12:17 AM
Alright, here's the exact break down for this past week. This is personal stuff here!
Tuesday: 9.25 hours, gross income for mowing: $719
Wednesday: 9.5 hrs, gross income for mowing: $637
Thursday: 5.5 hrs (didn't start until noon rain delay): gross income from mowing: $441
Friday: 7.25 hrs, gross income from mowing: $607

Total gross income from mowing: $2404
Total hours: 31.5 X two employees @ $21 per hour together
Gas equals out to about $5 per hour
Workers comp, ss, unemployement: somewhere around 15% additional per hour

jasonnau
06-06-2010, 12:18 AM
Quick note, we worked hours on other landscape jobs in addition, but I'm not trying to figure that income out. I'm just trying to figure out there mowing income.

nepatsfan
06-06-2010, 12:24 AM
It all depends on your overhead and what works for you. You might be netting $19 per hour per guy but as far as your gross income it really depends on your overhead and how much you want to make. I think what you are grossing is gonna be in the ballpark with most companies.

jasonnau
06-06-2010, 12:36 AM
That's 19 each. That is gross. If your employees are generating that much then they arent making 19 per hour. They are making more like 50 per hour for you. Your net profit might only be 350 per day but they are still generating 50 per hour.
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jasonnau
06-06-2010, 12:41 AM
That's what I was hoping. There time will decrease. As summer comes It all depends on your overhead and what works for you. You might be netting $19 per hour per guy but as far as your gross income it really depends on your overhead and how much you want to make. I think what you are grossing is gonna be in the ballpark with most companies.
Posted via Mobile Device

jasonnau
06-06-2010, 01:13 AM
23.60 per hour per man is what I calculated for this last week. My original calculation was for two weeks ago. This is after the extra 15% and 5$ per hour on fuel. So anyway does this fall in line with what I should expect?
Posted via Mobile Device

McFarland_Lawn_Care
06-06-2010, 05:58 AM
Yes. I was also a bit confused at first when you were talking about gross income and then were deducting their salaries and stuff. But overall I would say yes, that is a great start. I have around 45 properties with one helper this year and plan to gain about 15 more this season. Based on average income per day and all, I would expect I would be Very close to those numbers if I had two workers mowing. Best of luck this year and keep us posted. =)

Tom-N-Texas
06-06-2010, 09:27 AM
Alright, here's the low down. For the last 6 years it's always been myself and one employee mowing lawns. It's always been profitable for me doing this, but the work load keeps increasing every year, and I can't keep up with everything else in a timely manner with me being a part of the mowing crew This year I've got it to where I have two employees handling the entire mowing route so that I can handle everything else (mulching, meeting customers, pruning, etc.etc.. After breaking down the gross income for a weeks mowing (about 62 residential lawns). Minus income plus 15% for social security, workers comp, and unemployement, minus about $5 per hour for fuel in mowers and trucks, my employees are generating about $325-350 per day additional gross income. Is this good, or should it be better? Granted, it's been wet, and it's been spring cuts, and there time should improve, but I'm just curious what some of the other lcos are shooting for out of their crews. I by myself am generating at least as much, if not twice as much on my own doing everything else. I know that's not bad, but as for the employees, are they generating a realistic revenue. Now, I know I'm not counting the hidden expenses such as truck payments, insurance, etc.

There are so many factors that go into making money there is no way to say how much a two-man crew should be making. Large commercial jobs, for example, generally will make more money quicker than smaller residential yards, especially if the yards are spaced out.

If your guys are doing the work you are asking them to do in a timely manner then that's all you can expect. Just get as many accounts as you can, price them well, find good workers, and the money will follow. No need to worry how much they're making per hour. that's really a pointless stat that will invariably change hourly/daily depending on what's going on.

bohiaa
06-06-2010, 12:13 PM
time to trim the fat

brucec32
06-06-2010, 12:34 PM
Two employees here, assuming they are good, could realistically (not hypothetically on a perfect day, with insanely motivated workers who love to work cheap for you) gross $500 mowing a "typical" (not ideal) route in realistic (not ideal) weather conditions and with realistic (not idealized) problems that come up in an 8 hour day (not 10, not 12). Then you have to factor in the fact that this is a seasonal job. Not many go-getters want to take 3 months a year off at zero pay. So to keep them around you have to over-pay them during busy periods or pay them to sit around a lot.

I personally have sustained (not peak, not best day, not working bursts part-time, not killing myself physically, not working insane hours) $400/day. After factoring in the added costs of a seperate crew you can see why I have not stuck with the employee thing and am happily solo.

Everyone gets rich doing this on paper. But after reality is applied many I see out there seem to be driving rusty old trucks and struggling to stay busy. So that tells me not everyone knows how to properly account for the "friction" involved in making estimates of revenue and costs. The devil is in the details. Be sure you account for all your costs and are realistic about how much revenue employees can reliably make you. They are the weak point. Also be realistic about how much extra they cost besides their paychecks. More damage, more complaints, absenteeism, more wear/tear, higher insurance costs, all these things are bigger than most realize.

brucec32
06-06-2010, 12:38 PM
Together, they are generating roughly $38 per hour. I'm giving a little bit of a rough estimate here. Give me a little time and I'll give exact details

For heaven's sake you're all over the place with your nominclature. Go get a basic accounting book. Nobody can understand what you're saying because the terms gross, net, produce, generate, etc are all being used differently.

If your 2 man crew is producting $700 a day then you should have no complaints. But if that's 10 hours or 8 is a big difference. This is why you need to learn how to put all this down in a format recognized by all.

nepatsfan
06-06-2010, 12:50 PM
Two employees here, assuming they are good, could realistically (not hypothetically on a perfect day, with insanely motivated workers who love to work cheap for you) gross $500 mowing a "typical" (not ideal) route in realistic (not ideal) weather conditions and with realistic (not idealized) problems that come up. Then you have to factor in the fact that this is a seasonal job. Not many go-getters want to take 3 months a year off at zero pay. So to keep them around you have to over-pay them during busy periods or pay them to sit around a lot.

I personally have sustained (not peak, not best day, not working bursts part-time, not killing myself physically, not working insane hours) $400/day. After factoring in the added costs of a seperate crew you can see why I have not stuck with the employee thing and am happily solo.

Everyone gets rich doing this on paper. But after reality is applied many I see out there seem to be driving rusty old trucks and struggling to stay busy. So that tells me not everyone knows how to properly account for the "friction" involved in making estimates of revenue and costs. The devil is in the details. Be sure you account for all your costs and are realistic about how much revenue employees can reliably make you. They are the weak point. Also be realistic about how much extra they cost besides their paychecks. More damage, more complaints, absenteeism, more wear/tear, higher insurance costs, all these things are bigger than most realize.

If two guys worked for me and only grossed $500 a day mowing I would fire them both. If you are legit and paying these guys legit, and paying unemployment for them then they COLLECT during the three month layoff. My guys gross $500 a lot of times before lunch. They also plow during the winter. I do not see why you would stay solo grossing $400 per day. I dont think that is a huge accomplishment. I dont think its a bad days pay, and if you keep overhead low you can do ok but you are never gonna get ahead. There is probably only $300-$350 a day a day profit if you are lucky.

topsites
06-06-2010, 01:14 PM
I personally have sustained (not peak, not best day, not working bursts part-time, not killing myself physically, not working insane hours) $400/day.

As usually is the case I wanted to take this opportunity to mention that it appears the majority of Lco's
would make you believe that twice what you just quoted is not only quite possible but it's what they do
on a regular basis, and that's just for starters, then the figures go up from there...

They'd make one believe they regularly knock out twice the work at double the speed for at least twice the money
than those of us who have been doing this every day for more than a few years!
Yeah right, and I'm a totally stupid and insipid moron and thanks for thinking of me.

Like some solo, 14 acres, 4.5 hours, $450!
Of course they've been "in the business" for 10-20 years, too.

I find very few posts in a year that are anywhere even close to an actual figure.
Yours is still a bit lofty but I can see it, if one were to try and if one did not get
burned out, then it would still take more than a few years just to get there,
but I think $400 a day is possible, very much so, just not this 5-6-7-8-9-1000 and more crap.

No, just because 400 is possible does NOT mean 500 is a short step from it, not in this business, not sustained.

I ain't figured it out...
It's either a pissing contest, he with the biggest e-q3/!$ wins.
Maybe someone's trying to impress the girl, the others, or themselves.
Perhaps it's wishful thinking, happy accounting, maybe drugs.
Could be an attempt to trip up the unwary.
Possibly they don't really run a business, they're doing it wrong, or they haven't a clue?
Someone takes their absolute best day in all the years and figures that's the deal?
Perhaps a combination, and some things I forgot...

But...
WHY?

Maybe the one thing I could understand if they're embarrassed to admit it but then WHY say anything at all?
It usually tones itself down after it's been mentioned SEVERAL times and by more than one person,
then some time passes and history repeats itself.

It just don't make no dang sense, guess that's just the nature of this business?

Peace out

nepatsfan
06-06-2010, 01:25 PM
As usually is the case I wanted to take this opportunity to mention that it appears the majority of Lco's
would make you believe that twice what you just quoted is not only quite possible but it's what they do
on a regular basis, and that's just for starters, then the figures go up from there...

They'd make one believe they regularly knock out twice the work at double the speed for at least twice the money
than those of us who have been doing this every day for more than a few years!
Yeah right, and I'm a totally stupid and insipid moron and thanks for thinking of me.

Like some solo, 14 acres, 4.5 hours, $450!
Of course they've been "in the business" for 10-20 years, too.

I find very few posts in a year that are anywhere even close to an actual figure.
Yours is still a bit lofty but I can see it, if one were to try and if one did not get
burned out, then it would still take more than a few years just to get there,
but I think $400 a day is possible, very much so, just not this 5-6-7-8-9-1000 and more crap.

No, just because 400 is possible does NOT mean 500 is a short step from it, not in this business, not sustained.

I ain't figured it out...
It's either a pissing contest, he with the biggest e-q3/!$ wins.
Maybe someone's trying to impress the girl, the others, or themselves.
Perhaps it's wishful thinking, happy accounting, maybe drugs.
Could be an attempt to trip up the unwary.
Possibly they don't really run a business, they're doing it wrong, or they haven't a clue?
Someone takes their absolute best day in all the years and figures that's the deal?
Perhaps a combination, and some things I forgot...

But...
WHY?

Maybe the one thing I could understand if they're embarrassed to admit it but then WHY say anything at all?
It usually tones itself down after it's been mentioned SEVERAL times and by more than one person,
then some time passes and history repeats itself.

It just don't make no dang sense.

Peace out

Why wouldn't you expect to make 40-50 dollars per man hour. LOL is this unreasonable. If you had two guys make $500 dollars in an 8 hour day they are screwing off A LOT or you are a big time lowballer.

TJLANDS
06-06-2010, 01:48 PM
My two man crews, doing residential only, avg 650.00 a day.
That is an avg day of 9 hrs.
There are some better days, (tighter routes easier homes), and then there are worse days, (wet grass, heavy growth weeks etc) but thats my avg so far this year.

MileHigh
06-06-2010, 01:58 PM
sounds a bit low to me...

what kind of mowers are you using?

Raymond S.
06-06-2010, 02:07 PM
When I run solo I generally average between $400-$600/day gross. If you knock out 12 yds that average $40/yd that's $480, throw in a couple $60 yds and the occasional $90 yd and your average jumps up alot. I have one day in my route with a helper that ends up being an 11 hr day, all residentials, gross is right at $1000 and change. These are very spaced out residentials some as low as $35 and a couple around $90. We're humpin' all day though. I wouldn't expect two employees to get this done but I push hard that day being the owner, and my helper knows what has to be done. I also have a solo day, all commercials, takes me just under 8 hrs and gross is $680.
These are real numbers, no B.S. For standard residential cookie cutter lawns I think two guys should consistently generate $600 +/- GROSS. That's around 17 $35 lawns that can be knocked out in 20 minutes w/ two guys. Some days my cookie cutter lawns kill me because they're not all right next door to eachother. Other days I make up for it with some large well paying commercials that I can average over $100/hr. Like alot of others have said though, numbers can be all over the place. But to answer your question if they're generating between that $600-$700 / day revenue mark then I don't think you're going to get a whole lot more out of them unless you invest in some better equipment perhaps (not sure what you're using right now) or get some more accounts that lets you readjust the route to make it tighter.

McFarland_Lawn_Care
06-06-2010, 02:18 PM
I know a lot of people may brag and all kinds of stuff but I make between $400-500 a day mowing solo for about 9 hrs and around $700 with a helper. I hope to increase it by tweaking a few thing next season but those are honest figures. I know because I track figures and average them ALL the time trying to squeeze more in. =)

nepatsfan
06-06-2010, 02:21 PM
Guys according to topsites your numbers are impossible. I guess its hard when you sit at home and post on lawnsite all day to make that much but if you actually go out and work these numbers seem pretty normal.

Mahoney3223
06-06-2010, 02:27 PM
i generally like to gross between $750-$850 out of a 2 man crew and its usually more like 9-9.5 hour days.

i'll believe that when me **** turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet :laugh:

nepatsfan
06-06-2010, 02:36 PM
i'll believe that when me **** turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet :laugh:
LOL then you guys are not charging enough. We do 16-20 lawns per day with 2 guys. We have a $40 minimum per cut. Average lawn about $45 Believe what you wish....I am not even on the high end in my area. Why is $750-$850 hard to believe. Sure some days we may have a bad day and only make 680-690 but for the most part $750-$850 is normal.

MileHigh
06-06-2010, 03:37 PM
LOL then you guys are not charging enough. We do 16-20 lawns per day with 2 guys. We have a $40 minimum per cut. Average lawn about $45 Believe what you wish....I am not even on the high end in my area. Why is $750-$850 hard to believe. Sure some days we may have a bad day and only make 680-690 but for the most part $750-$850 is normal.

I believe ya buddy.:waving:

Totally reasonable as well.

The guys that can't cut 17 average lawns with a few larger ones with two guys in a regular day, are because the accounts are way to spaced out, bad operators, going to damn slow, not routing correctly, using the wrong or underpowered equipment, or walking behind them.:cry:

Chilehead
06-06-2010, 03:59 PM
As a solo operator, I am generating about $30.00-$35.00 an hour in gross revenue if you include drive time. With a 2-man crew, $60.00 an hour should be your minimum gross payout. If you're not making this much, either persuade your crew to perform better or tighten your route density. The only other reason would be that you are charging your clients too little in the first place.

hackitdown
06-06-2010, 04:49 PM
LOL then you guys are not charging enough. We do 16-20 lawns per day with 2 guys. We have a $40 minimum per cut. Average lawn about $45 Believe what you wish....I am not even on the high end in my area. Why is $750-$850 hard to believe. Sure some days we may have a bad day and only make 680-690 but for the most part $750-$850 is normal.

This is pretty realistic, regardless of what some will say. People in some parts of the country don't believe that we can charge what we charge in the Northeast.

We do mostly mow/blow/go. This time of year, we average 13 cuts per day, at an average price of $51, two men in an 8 hr day. Lawns are large around here, we have 2 acre zoning. Anyway, that is an avg $663 per day in revenue. In August and September it gets faster, we get 16 cut in an 8 hour day ($816). Of course, it all goes to hell when something breaks.

We use two 52" Exmark Lazer HPs, two trimmers, two BP blowers, on an open trailer. We rarely bag clippings. All my customers are in 2 towns, so no long rides. It took me 6 years to get it to this point.

nepatsfan
06-06-2010, 06:41 PM
Are things that bad in other parts of the country that people would think I was lying about making $750-$850 a day. I am always trying to think about how I can tighten up the route and make more.:dizzy:I am definitely not on the high end in my area but I am not on the low end either. I am probably somewhere right in the middle. I was thinking the other day about raising everyone 5 dollars next year to generate more money. I figure even if I lost a few we would be more profitable. Was also considering going to 3 man crews to be more productive. I am thinking how I can make more and some guys on here think its absolutely absurd to make @ $800 a day with two guys. Stay solo...you will never make it.:waving:

Darryl G
06-06-2010, 06:59 PM
I'm happy grossing $350 to $400 per day solo mowing. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. I'm not known for early starts. The funny thing is that I do better on my lower end accounts than the high end ones, even though I try to charge accordingly. It's the trimming time that kills me and I hate to cut corners on it...I think a good trim job makes all the difference in how a lawn looks. But the high end lawns are where most of the "extras" come from, so it's all good :)

Jimslawncareservice
06-06-2010, 07:09 PM
what size of lawn are we talking here.in my area i can do 20-25 yards a day myself. add another guy i have done 40 yards and 2 3acre props. but our lawn are small here. mow/blow/go ave time is 10- 12 mins. we have done some with 2 guys at 5 mins.

Darryl G
06-06-2010, 07:15 PM
I do 6 to 9 or 10 lawns a day. Average size, lol. Average cut this year is $54 and most lots are 1/2 acre and up. I have some that the trim/blow alone is 45 mins. 20 or 25 mins is about the fastest I can get any of mine done working solo, 30 minutes if I have a helper, lol.

MnGreen
06-06-2010, 07:55 PM
what size of lawn are we talking here.in my area i can do 20-25 yards a day myself. add another guy i have done 40 yards and 2 3acre props. but our lawn are small here. mow/blow/go ave time is 10- 12 mins. we have done some with 2 guys at 5 mins.

Owatonna, MN market will bear $30 rates for "mow and go" service on lots small enough
to service (25) alone ?

I've been doing postage stamp to 1/4 acre lots in south Minneapolis for 3 plus years.
Nasty banks and hills on 50% of them.
2 minutes max between stops
Cut, trim, edge, and blow (every week) No mow and go.

(18) a day solo
(26-30) day 2-man

Found the 2-man to be the way to go.
$750-$850 gross daily...(9) hr day's.
Get my (60) done in 2 day's...2nd guy allows you to keep up a pretty intense pace and not kill yourself, and keeps the other guy efficient and cost effective.

rjh4758
06-06-2010, 07:57 PM
Alright, here's the exact break down for this past week. This is personal stuff here!
Tuesday: 9.25 hours, gross income for mowing: $719
Wednesday: 9.5 hrs, gross income for mowing: $637
Thursday: 5.5 hrs (didn't start until noon rain delay): gross income from mowing: $441
Friday: 7.25 hrs, gross income from mowing: $607

Total gross income from mowing: $2404

Total hours: 31.5 X two employees @ $21 per hour together
Gas equals out to about $5 per hour
Workers comp, ss, unemployement: somewhere around 15% additional per hour

Seems like most everyone looked right past they fact that you deducted some expenses off the hourly number you posted earlier. So I broke it down a bit more for you. I may have missed some other expenses like advertising, administrative costs, website, phone, ect. as I do not know all the expenses that you have.

OK I will make the assumption that you are running one ZTR and maybe a 21 and handhelds.

$2404-15%=$2043.40 Workers comp, ss, unemployement

73 man hours X $10.50=$766.50

$2043.40-$766.5=$1276.90

31.5 hrs equipment use(replacement cost and maint.)$6.00hr=$189

$1276.90-$189=$1087.90

$800 liability Ins. + $500 auto ins + $4800 annual truck payment/28 weeks = $217.85

$1087.90-$217.85=$870.05

31.5 hrs of fuel at $5.00=$157.50

$870.05-$157.50=$712.55 net income

They are putting $9.76 per man hour in your pocket. Could be better but if you are putting out $1200 of work yourself you should be able to get by OK. But look for ways to get more efficient or get more business and look at adding a crew as you can make a higher income that way as well.

rain man
06-06-2010, 08:01 PM
Ten thousand mowers will be purchased tomorrow based solely on this thread alone. Its all good.

hackitdown
06-06-2010, 09:12 PM
Seems like most everyone looked right past they fact that you deducted some expenses off the hourly number you posted earlier. So I broke it down a bit more for you. I may have missed some other expenses like advertising, administrative costs, website, phone, ect. as I do not know all the expenses that you have.

OK I will make the assumption that you are running one ZTR and maybe a 21 and handhelds.

$2404-15%=$2043.40 Workers comp, ss, unemployement

73 man hours X $10.50=$766.50

$2043.40-$766.5=$1276.90

31.5 hrs equipment use(replacement cost and maint.)$6.00hr=$189

$1276.90-$189=$1087.90

$800 liability Ins. + $500 auto ins + $4800 annual truck payment/28 weeks = $217.85

$1087.90-$217.85=$870.05

31.5 hrs of fuel at $5.00=$157.50

$870.05-$157.50=$712.55 net income

They are putting $9.76 per man hour in your pocket. Could be better but if you are putting out $1200 of work yourself you should be able to get by OK. But look for ways to get more efficient or get more business and look at adding a crew as you can make a higher income that way as well.

Your numbers are pretty much right on in my case, too. But I can usually bill a for a few extras here and there that bump up the bottom line.

milo
06-06-2010, 10:31 PM
this question as others have said is dumb. what size mowers you run? ztr or walk behinds? way to many factors left out. if your using 21 inch push mowers than its great money, if your running 2 60 inch ztr's and have route planed good than thats not good.
its perty simple, for 1 week you eork with 1 guy and see how long you guys do it all, than next week work with the other guy and see how long, while you do this send them out to do the stuff you do. now, if your working about the same as the guys are than live with it, if you get done like 6 hours less with both of them then fire one or both or have a talk with them.
:confused:

TMlawncare
06-07-2010, 12:09 AM
My two man crews, doing residential only, avg 650.00 a day.
That is an avg day of 9 hrs.
There are some better days, (tighter routes easier homes), and then there are worse days, (wet grass, heavy growth weeks etc) but thats my avg so far this year.

$650 per day for a 2 man crew is very common. This is about what we average. Its also what the industry for a whole averages. 8hr day at $40/hr = $320 per man x 2men = $640.

That 40/per man hr includes all time at the jobsite, bathroom, windshield time, load/unload, trash pickup. It is a whole day average, not a "wow I mowed that sucker in 12 minutes, I must have avg a $100/hr."

nepatsfan
06-07-2010, 12:13 AM
$650 per day for a 2 man crew is very common. This is about what we average. Its also what the industry for a whole averages. 8hr day at $40/hr = $320 per man x 2men = $640.

That 40/per man hr includes all time at the jobsite, bathroom, windshield time, load/unload, trash pickup. It is a whole day average, not a "wow I mowed that sucker in 12 minutes, I must have avg a $100/hr."

haha...lmao...that is awesome and true

jasonnau
06-07-2010, 12:29 AM
Seems like most everyone looked right past they fact that you deducted some expenses off the hourly number you posted earlier. So I broke it down a bit more for you. I may have missed some other expenses like advertising, administrative costs, website, phone, ect. as I do not know all the expenses that you have.

OK I will make the assumption that you are running one ZTR and maybe a 21 and handhelds.

$2404-15%=$2043.40 Workers comp, ss, unemployement

73 man hours X $10.50=$766.50

$2043.40-$766.5=$1276.90

31.5 hrs equipment use(replacement cost and maint.)$6.00hr=$189

$1276.90-$189=$1087.90

$800 liability Ins. + $500 auto ins + $4800 annual truck payment/28 weeks = $217.85

$1087.90-$217.85=$870.05

31.5 hrs of fuel at $5.00=$157.50

$870.05-$157.50=$712.55 net income

They are putting $9.76 per man hour in your pocket. Could be better but if you are putting out $1200 of work yourself you should be able to get by OK. But look for ways to get more efficient or get more business and look at adding a crew as you can make a higher income that way as well.

That's probably pretty darn close. I've never broken down the hidden expenses such as insurance, and truck cost. Always been afraid to. My whole reason for posting this thread is that forever it's been just me and a 10
$ guy. The bottomline is always acceptable. Yes, I'm better than both of them by a long shot, but I can't do everything all the time without working 70 hrs a week. I've got three kids and a wife that is about half way to divorcing me every spring because I'm gone so much. So, this is the first year sending a crew out that didn't involve me being the main part of it. I really had no idea what to expect, and didn't like the idea of having so much overhead in labor. I have gotten on them about being efficient as well as fast, but, my lead guy is new to all of this but a quick learner who takes pride in what he does. My string trimmer came from another company who would just hit it and get it without paying so much attention to detail. It's been a battle to get the lead guy to stop spending too much time on detail and trying to get the trimmer guy to spend more attention to detail. Summer is finally here and their time and skills have been improving. It is slightly depressing to see the $10 per hr per employee number, but I'm doing at least $1200 if not 1/3 more than that by myself. Things will slow down in the next month or so, and I'll probably have the trimmer guy drop down to 3 days a week and i'll pick up for the other 2. Just depends on the work load. But, thank you for breaking down everything. Looking at your estimates, they are probably making closer to $11 per hr per employee. My liability is a little cheaper and they are driving a nice looking 01 f250 that I picked up this year for $6500 to run the mowing route. And they take a 60 lazer, a 60 turf tracer, a 36 turf tracer, and a 21 with them. Usually only one guy is mowing unless the back yard is too small to get the 60 in. So I'm glad to here they are in the ballpark, as depressing as the low numbers are.
Thanks again.

jasonnau
06-07-2010, 12:38 AM
In all honesty, I've never broken everything down to figure it out exactly because I've been too busy working!!!!

Darryl G
06-07-2010, 01:42 AM
I don't know what pay rates are by you but I pay my 16 year old son $10/hr for trim and blow and help on mulch jobs. I don't see how you can even get someone to work at that rate. Not sure what the norm is in your area though.

rjh4758
06-07-2010, 01:54 AM
I don't know what pay rates are by you but I pay my 16 year old son $10/hr for trim and blow and help on mulch jobs. I don't see how you can even get someone to work at that rate. Not sure what the norm is in your area though.

I my area they pay minimum wage to $10 an hour. I know CT and most of the northeast pay much higher due to cost of living.

slamjamrockinman
06-07-2010, 02:02 AM
I believe ya buddy.:waving:

Totally reasonable as well.

The guys that can't cut 17 average lawns with a few larger ones with two guys in a regular day, are because the accounts are way to spaced out, bad operators, going to damn slow, not routing correctly, using the wrong or underpowered equipment, or walking behind them.:cry:

You hit the nail on the head. These guys that move so SLOW and don't even realize it. They take 5 minutes just to get the mowers off and start mowing. That 5 minutes adds up when you do 15+ properties a day. Not to mention accounts spaced out, unskilled operators, the list goes on. When your doing volume, there is so many little things that can eat away your productivity. I totally agree, 17+ is completely attainable.

jasonnau
06-07-2010, 10:26 PM
Just to add my two cents back and give you a little more info, we mow 16-19 lawns per day with the price range being somewhere between 35 and 90. Take them all, divide the income and they average about 40 or so dollars each. As for a dollar amount, I've had plenty of 1000 dollar (gross) days. And quite a few 100 dollar (net) days. Usually when conditions are good and we've been behind and need to catch up. I doubt that my employees will accomplish that any time soon. If it's just me, with a helper, it's totally possible, just one long hard high paced day. Average day is about 700-800 if I'm the lead guy and I have a good helper. Solo, my day is usually around 500 or so given good conditions. There are plenty of guys on here that are full of it. Some people also get more where they live depending on the cost of living. Some people can't get $30 a cut in the South. In my part of the country, most lawns are $35-$45 cuts. That would be a nice average 150- $250,000 house with a .25 to .5 acre lot.. I also have found that I make more money mowing smaller homes. That's a fact. We have one $90 lawn that takes two people about an hour and a half to cut and trim. Some of my $35 dollar lawns take less than 15 minutes each with a 60 walk behind. Do the math. Plus, every new lawn care company that starts each year does the exact same thing. They go to the rich neighborhoods and advertise the hell out of them. This is generally where the bigger lawns are here. Either that or there in the country and those people don't hire lcos. They use their tractor. New guys don't know what the hell they are doing with bidding, and end up driving the price down by lack of knowledge, and so much competition in the rich neighborhoods. These people are used to it and the likelyhood of customer loyalty is less here than in the middle class neighborhoods. Your 60 dollar lawn could be underbid by half next year by the guy who just started out and wants to low ball. Here's what happens next, that guy works his but off on these big complicated lawns and either realizes he didn't make what he thought he was, or does a shitttty job and ends up replaced so many times that he goes out of business the folowing year. I constantly see this. So here's my perspective. I've always taken it slow and carefull, being myself and one good helper. I've looked for middle class neighborhoods as close to my home as possible (this is also a selling point for myself). I've done as close to perfect as humanely possible on everything I've ever done and gotten to be really fast and next to perfect at the same time. This year, I've found myself forced to grow. So now I've left my reputation and income in the hands of strangers who I really don't know all that well. So, I posted this thread to get someone elses vantage point that's already been in these shoes. Wether I confused people with gross and net, the only gross and net that I've really looked at was when it came to filing taxes. I've never taken the time to add repairs and equipment (mine is all paid off except the trucks), or add the insurance and such to figure out a bottomline. I think most of you guys are right on with your figures. Some of you haven't taken the time to figure out the hidden costs (as I haven't either), and some of you have spent quite a bit of time on it. I appreciate the responses so far. Tell you the truth, landscape and landscape maintenance is where the money is really at. I've had $3000 (gross) days with that. Problem is that I can't rely on it. I do a lot of it, but summer is slow. Mowing is what keeps the money coming in steadily. But, having a product to sell for more than what you paid for it as well as making your hourly rate always leads to a more profitable day. I'm just rambling on now, but that's where I stand on things.

Chilehead
06-08-2010, 10:28 AM
Just to add my two cents back and give you a little more info, we mow 16-19 lawns per day with the price range being somewhere between 35 and 90. Take them all, divide the income and they average about 40 or so dollars each. As for a dollar amount, I've had plenty of 1000 dollar (gross) days. And quite a few 100 dollar (net) days.

I'd love to have a $1000 day. Much of this depends on the market one is in too. When I lived in Akron, OH I could easily charge $40.00 a cut for a city lot. Here in Atlanta the going rate is $20.00. I have seen my competitors' quotes and most of them are well-respected legit companies. Then there's acreage. A one-acre lot could easily bring home $80.00-$100.00 a mow, but not in the Atlanta market:$60.00. Companies around here are generally larger operations that make their money on volume, not margin. This is why so many of the smaller operations are driving around in 20-year-old trucks and beat-up trailers. They need to compete with the larger discount pricing outfits just to have their bids considered. All the other facets of landscaping are the same way. The craziest bids are probably on irrigation systems. Guys down here price by the number of zones (stupid IMHO). Three zone system? $1200.00 installed. That's $400.00 a zone. Gotta go.

southern118
06-09-2010, 12:05 AM
i really dont understand how people cant mow that many lawns in an 8 hour day. i work part time and we mow roughly 10 to 15 yards in a 3 to 4 hour shift. all residential and average size yards. The best thing you can do is have two or three yards that you never have to go back to the truck for. this is with a 2 man crew or 3 man crew on the days we have to bust out 15 in about 2 1/2 hours

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
06-09-2010, 12:35 AM
I can run myself and one other guy from 7am to 5:00 and generate gross $400-$500 pretty comfortably. I'm making money. Your numbers are a little low for my liking. Something's better than nothing, I suppose but I have a simple and effective way of determining if you're business is worth doing. Find your net income per day, after all expenses up, down, left, and right, it's all taken off the gross. Then look at that number square in the face. Is that number enough to get you out of bed in the morning? Honestly? If that number doesn't excite you, you're not making money and the business probably needs to be farmed out and you spend your time doing something else. Or, if the number does get you up and out, concentrate on making the route leaner. Cut payroll, add properties, whatever. I do both and I'm looking good at a strong 40% net, up from 23% last year margin. See, $100 in my pocket for a long hard day isn't worth it to me. I won't get up for $100. I could sit in front of Craigslist in my underwear and sell crap for much more than a Benjamin. But $250...yeah...I'm in for that number. And the good thing about my income is that I've got 5 crews making money for me every day while I go out with one other worker. So money's coming in from all directions. That's what you want to accomplish. Anything short of that and you're just trading time for money...and not much at that.

TMlawncare
06-09-2010, 12:47 AM
i really dont understand how people cant mow that many lawns in an 8 hour day. i work part time and we mow roughly 10 to 15 yards in a 3 to 4 hour shift. all residential and average size yards. The best thing you can do is have two or three yards that you never have to go back to the truck for. this is with a 2 man crew or 3 man crew on the days we have to bust out 15 in about 2 1/2 hours

Even with a 3 man crew 15 lawns in 2.5hrs is very difficult. We can do it in a sub division where we have 7 lawns all together and another with 8 lawns. This practically eliminates wasted windshield time, etc. If the routing was not that close I don't think we could get then done no matter how small the lawns are. The windshield, loading/unloading would kill you. Think about it this way, you must be getting a lawn done in less then 10 minutes. If you have to drive to the next lawn you must deduct your drive time plus your loading/unloading from that 10 minutes. Crap you may be left with only 3 minutes to get the lawn mowed, trimmed and blowed off. Like I said if the lawn are not in groups of 7 or more we or probably no one else could not get them done in 2.5 hrs.

Glenn Lawn Care
06-09-2010, 12:54 AM
maybe you should find someway to see if they are slacking off. maybe follow then and see what they are doing. if they are newbies still, theres a concern right there.

Darryl G
06-09-2010, 10:06 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how people on here don't realize that not every area is like theirs. Not every area has the population density and layout to allow mowing multiple lawns in a single stop. If I parked my truck and mowed three lawns in a row on my road I'd end up over 1/2 mile away. The minimum lot size is 20K square feet (1/2 acre) and just north of me its 80k (2 acre) and many of the house are on lots much larger than that. My house lot is 4.2 acres.

Chilehead
06-09-2010, 10:30 AM
Even with a 3 man crew 15 lawns in 2.5hrs is very difficult. We can do it in a sub division where we have 7 lawns all together and another with 8 lawns. This practically eliminates wasted windshield time, etc. If the routing was not that close I don't think we could get then done no matter how small the lawns are. The windshield, loading/unloading would kill you. Think about it this way, you must be getting a lawn done in less then 10 minutes. If you have to drive to the next lawn you must deduct your drive time plus your loading/unloading from that 10 minutes. Crap you may be left with only 3 minutes to get the lawn mowed, trimmed and blowed off. Like I said if the lawn are not in groups of 7 or more we or probably no one else could not get them done in 2.5 hrs.

I'd have to agree. Those lawns would have to be fairly small and located right next to each other to make this happen. A 60" Z rider can pump out roughly 4 acres an hour on wide open land, so maneuvering in between residences would probably net someone 2-3. If the houses average a fifth-acre of turf or less then this could be possible with another guy at the hands of the trimmer/edger. The mower operator would likely be done right around the 2:15 mark which would leave time for him to start up the blower.
Operating solo with a 48" hydro walk, I can usually drop gate-mow-trim-edge-blow-reload trailer-deliver paperwork on a quarter acre lot in about 30 minutes.

southern118
06-09-2010, 09:26 PM
Even with a 3 man crew 15 lawns in 2.5hrs is very difficult. We can do it in a sub division where we have 7 lawns all together and another with 8 lawns. This practically eliminates wasted windshield time, etc. If the routing was not that close I don't think we could get then done no matter how small the lawns are. The windshield, loading/unloading would kill you. Think about it this way, you must be getting a lawn done in less then 10 minutes. If you have to drive to the next lawn you must deduct your drive time plus your loading/unloading from that 10 minutes. Crap you may be left with only 3 minutes to get the lawn mowed, trimmed and blowed off. Like I said if the lawn are not in groups of 7 or more we or probably no one else could not get them done in 2.5 hrs.

i understand but these are small lots and they are grouped in 3 to 5 lots within walking distance of each other. on that day the only time we move the truck is down the street while the mower is driving down the street no loading it. we work very hard to out run the mower

lawncuttinfoo
06-12-2010, 09:25 AM
This is pretty realistic, regardless of what some will say. People in some parts of the country don't believe that we can charge what we charge in the Northeast.



I believe it, but you have to remember a $500,000 home there also will cost $150,000 in another part of the country, which is why it totally pointless to talk pricing on national scale, cost of living is dramatically different.

I'm Gonna move to Zimbabwe and beat you all because I will be netting zim$1,000,000,000 per hour.

we dig it
03-23-2011, 12:57 AM
How you making this daily? How many accounts do you service daily on average?

keepoffthegrass
03-23-2011, 11:53 AM
i generally like to gross between $750-$850 out of a 2 man crew and its usually more like 9-9.5 hour days.

DITTO

he is right on my number. 750-850 per 9-10hr day if its 12hrs so be it.

$1000 for a 3 man crew

$1350 for a 4 man mafia

I quote large 4man crew stuff at 1350/day (4 guys, 26' gooseneck/crew cab & 4l ZTR's) I am winning bids on municiple/school bids etc left and right. All the companys hate me.. am I a low baller?????

Kelly's Landscaping
03-23-2011, 12:22 PM
It really depends on the list I run 2 two man crews my partner has just half of Milford but has 110 lawns on that side. I have 4 towns on my list but they are bigger lawns and while my cutting list can not compare the difference is 2k a year customers vs. 1k or less a year customers. Now he refused to do his list in 4 days so it was crammed into 3 2800-2950 a week in 3 days mine was 2450-2600 a week in 3 days. So where my best days were like 850 he actually had 1100 dollar days sometimes AND WONT LET ME FORGET IT.

He had some real help with his numbers that I don't get I got real drive time he doesn't. and when I cut a lawn the price per sqft is significantly less since they are so much larger. I also do not have a 125 dollar a cut 45 min condo job he does. I produce 3-5 yards of grass clippings a day he averages about 1. But they are both still profitable lists his is just more so right till his dries out in summer and all of a sudden he has 4 times the skips I get.

TMlawncare
03-23-2011, 07:11 PM
Alright, here's the exact break down for this past week. This is personal stuff here!
Tuesday: 9.25 hours, gross income for mowing: $719
Wednesday: 9.5 hrs, gross income for mowing: $637
Thursday: 5.5 hrs (didn't start until noon rain delay): gross income from mowing: $441
Friday: 7.25 hrs, gross income from mowing: $607

Total gross income from mowing: $2404
Total hours: 31.5 X two employees @ $21 per hour together
Gas equals out to about $5 per hour
Workers comp, ss, unemployement: somewhere around 15% additional per hour

Those #'s look pretty good. Some days you are grossing around $38 per man hour average for the whole day. That is right where we are.

TMlawncare
03-23-2011, 07:16 PM
23.60 per hour per man is what I calculated for this last week. My original calculation was for two weeks ago. This is after the extra 15% and 5$ per hour on fuel. So anyway does this fall in line with what I should expect?
Posted via Mobile Device

When you post your gross per employee don't pull expenses out. It just confuses everyone and you get incorrect info.

aarons lawn
03-23-2011, 07:51 PM
when i used to work by my self id gross about 6 to 700 a day

TMlawncare
03-23-2011, 08:46 PM
Why wouldn't you expect to make 40-50 dollars per man hour. LOL is this unreasonable. If you had two guys make $500 dollars in an 8 hour day they are screwing off A LOT or you are a big time lowballer.

$500 is a little low. Most of us would expect or like to see $600. At $500 each employee is grossing $250. Assuming a 8hr day with 1.5hrs of downtime thats 6.5hrs of production. The 1.5 wasted hrs is bathroom breaks, loading/unloading, driving between accounts. Usually on a tight route there is about 5 minutes of downtime between jobs. Assuming they do 18 lawns a day thats 90 minutes of downtime. So with only 6.5 hrs of production each employee is averaging $38/per hour on the jobsite and $31/per hour throughout the day. I personally would like to see it a tad higher but that is not awful.

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
03-23-2011, 08:58 PM
THAT'S MY TARGET FOR MYSELF AND ONE OTHER. $500 per day is getting more like it. Mind you that's two total folks with me being one. If you are speaking of yourself the owner and two others on the clock, adjust appropriately. I pay my guys $75 per day, so two would be $150 labor where 25% labor cost x $400 day ain't much so you have to boost it up. $75 labor off $400 gross is good. My numbers and percentages should keep you within reasonable profitability.

TMlawncare
03-23-2011, 09:01 PM
i generally like to gross between $750-$850 out of a 2 man crew and its usually more like 9-9.5 hour days.


Ok I got to call BS on this. Do you really expect anyone that has been in business for a few years to believe that each of your two employees average $89/per man hr. Holy crap, the national average is around $44/per man hr. You make twice that. Your company must be twice a special. Wow, you have to share your business model. The whole green industry is waiting to take notes.

prezek
03-23-2011, 09:43 PM
Ok I got to call BS on this. Do you really expect anyone that has been in business for a few years to believe that each of your two employees average $89/per man hr. Holy crap, the national average is around $44/per man hr. You make twice that. Your company must be twice a special. Wow, you have to share your business model. The whole green industry is waiting to take notes.

2 guys at 850 for 9 hours??? Check your math. $47. Right in line with most others...

TMlawncare
03-23-2011, 10:30 PM
2 guys at 850 for 9 hours??? Check your math. $47. Right in line with most others...


Opps, I was in such awe of the solo opps out there doing $600/per day that I forgot that this was a two man crew. I agree $47/man hr is very doable out East with good accounts and routing. Now to tell a newbie this is what he can expect with his account list just starting is not realistic.

Ex Mark Loyal Customer?
12-10-2012, 11:44 PM
I don't understand where you are getting guys to work for $10-11 an hr that are hard working and worth having. My employee hrly rate is 12-18 hr

Chris Feenan
12-11-2012, 12:41 AM
Maybe part of it has to do with the fact that this thread started 2 1/2 years ago.

But it's a good read anyway - thanks for recycling it.

BTW, you don't need to pay lawn mowing laborers 12 - 18 dollars per hour, do you ? Or are you just a really nice boss ?

TJLANDS
12-11-2012, 09:19 AM
i put an ad on Craigslist for a driver/ with lawn mowing experience for $10
an hour and got over one hundred responses.
Sure some were bad, but i did hire a couple from the ad.
that was this past spring

jrs.landscaping
12-11-2012, 05:00 PM
I can't believe 2 man crews working for under $500 per day? One route I can do by myself as a one man crew and gross almost $800 in an 8.5 hour day. This isn't normal but it can be done 1 or 2 days out of a weekly schedule.

RSK Property Maintenance
12-11-2012, 06:49 PM
my lawns are far apart except for a few, most have 20 min breaks from lawn to lawn, I really need to fill in the gaps or find new accounts closer to the lawns I already have even still, myself and another guy can do 850-1000 mowing per day. but i only had 1 full day of mowing, next year increase it to 2 or 3 fully days of mowing. and i have a 40 dollar minimum that i stick to for lawns that are up to 8000sq. ft depending on how open it is and how flat it is and how much trimming there is, doesn't take much to bump that lawn up to a 50 dollar cut. most 40 dollar lawns take about 20 mins usually less time. and I feel that is almost too cheap even. but it always seems that way when you have a small number of accounts like i do.

McFarland_Lawn_Care
12-11-2012, 10:10 PM
Yes, this year I stayed more picky and increased a few. Between that and picking up more properties in the same area (some even next door) really helped increase our average. I'm right even with the rest of the guys in the Northeast.

dKoester
12-11-2012, 10:49 PM
I learned from the early age of 17 from my first boss what "sun up till sun down"meant. It makes you a man and keeps you fed. If you are married then I understand not working the 13 a day schedule due to family time. I don't have that problem however being single.

the ace
12-12-2012, 11:00 AM
If you pay peanuts you usaully get monkeys.