Lawn care business versus Seal coating business

[4lextrem]

Hi everyone i need your imput on this one and thanks in advance.I already am in the lawn care business but whatever heres my question.

Assuming i need 147 customers to get to the 100 000$ goal in lawn care...354 customers for the 100 000$ goal in seal coating,would i be better off with lawn care or seal coating,i like the concept of sealing but will i get 354 customers as easily as lets say 354 customers for lawn care?!

As i said,thanks in advance i am comtemplaiting investing in another truck and equipment for seal coating this time..i don't want to pay 10 000$ to know it will not work as easily.Here is the best place to ask,a lot of contractors with some time to answer..and time is..you guessed it,money.

Alex from Montreal,canada.

ps:i posted this thread in both forums(lawn care and seal coating)

[Mdirrigation]

It isnt the number of customers , its the dollars per job . I started sealcoating with a 12,000 dollar unit , and 0 sealing customers , 10 years ago . Still at it ,

[nepatsfan]

Exactly what the other guy said. You could get 1 $150,000 account(not very likely but it could happen) You cant just put a number of accounts and pick a dollar figure. It totally depends on how much you are making.

[SurfaceMax]

Your proifile says Montreal and I presume that's Canada. Your sealcoating "season" will be very short. That's one thing to factor in.
Secondly sealcoating prices (materials) have gone through the roof and while you can get used sealcoat machines cheap (because so many people are going out of business or downsizing) you have to consider how many months you have at least 7-8 hours a day over 55 degrees (and then subtract some for rain or whatever). That's the number of says you have to get that sealcoating work done, and if you are still going to do landscaping you have to figure if you could divide up your time (most landscape people do driveways and small jobs for customers they already have for landscaping)

Of course as the above post said you could land a really big job but you then raise the question of if you want to have equipment that's major overkill for driveways but would handle a large job if you got one.

Your insurance rates may change (maybe not) but probably will if you expect to do any commercial. Then there's the employees who will probably expect to be paid more for the harder work of sealing than landscaping.

You might want to read through some of the posts on the dedicated site for sealcoating & pavement services at http://www.PavementPro.com/forum and see what people already in the business are saying; I think there's a few people who post there from Canada. It's a tough time for the sealcoaters in the USA right now. This economy has hit them hard coupled with price increases on the other end (that's why the market is flooded with used equipment like I have never seen in my 30+ years in the business)

If you are doing well at landscaping and building your business towards your goals then I'd probably suggest staying with what's working for you. But if you are having trouble growing your landscape business (whether due to your lack of marketing training or your local economy & competition) you will find it harder in sealcoating if you are talking about just "switching businesses" because competition for customers is fierce, the market is saturated with sealcoating contractors from the early 2000's which were the good years when it was easier for people to get into the business & go... my advice is to just factor in your decision the amount of working time (you can do lawn clean up and such long after it's too cold to seal & start soil prep & such earlier in the Spring) then added overhead, and your own ability to acquire customers and satisfy them & maintain their loyalty. You really have to be "above and beyond" to maintain the loyalty of residential customers because for sealcoating they are notoriously fickle.

[4lextrem]

Exactly what the other guy said. You could get 1 $150,000 account(not very likely but it could happen) You cant just put a number of accounts and pick a dollar figure. It totally depends on how much you are making.

Governement contract..wal mart? That's one heck of a price for an account,i didn't even know it could run that high.

[4lextrem]

Your proifile says Montreal and I presume that's Canada. Your sealcoating "season" will be very short. That's one thing to factor in.
Secondly sealcoating prices (materials) have gone through the roof and while you can get used sealcoat machines cheap (because so many people are going out of business or downsizing) you have to consider how many months you have at least 7-8 hours a day over 55 degrees (and then subtract some for rain or whatever). That's the number of says you have to get that sealcoating work done, and if you are still going to do landscaping you have to figure if you could divide up your time (most landscape people do driveways and small jobs for customers they already have for landscaping)

Of course as the above post said you could land a really big job but you then raise the question of if you want to have equipment that's major overkill for driveways but would handle a large job if you got one.

Your insurance rates may change (maybe not) but probably will if you expect to do any commercial. Then there's the employees who will probably expect to be paid more for the harder work of sealing than landscaping.

You might want to read through some of the posts on the dedicated site for sealcoating & pavement services at http://www.PavementPro.com/forum and see what people already in the business are saying; I think there's a few people who post there from Canada. It's a tough time for the sealcoaters in the USA right now. This economy has hit them hard coupled with price increases on the other end (that's why the market is flooded with used equipment like I have never seen in my 30+ years in the business)

If you are doing well at landscaping and building your business towards your goals then I'd probably suggest staying with what's working for you. But if you are having trouble growing your landscape business (whether due to your lack of marketing training or your local economy & competition) you will find it harder in sealcoating if you are talking about just "switching businesses" because competition for customers is fierce, the market is saturated with sealcoating contractors from the early 2000's which were the good years when it was easier for people to get into the business & go... my advice is to just factor in your decision the amount of working time (you can do lawn clean up and such long after it's too cold to seal & start soil prep & such earlier in the Spring) then added overhead, and your own ability to acquire customers and satisfy them & maintain their loyalty. You really have to be "above and beyond" to maintain the loyalty of residential customers because for sealcoating they are notoriously fickle.

Yes i was checking statistics from the gov's website yesterday for that,it is to be taken seriously.

[nepatsfan]

Governement contract..wal mart? That's one heck of a price for an account,i didn't even know it could run that high.

Highly unlikely...my point wasn't the $150,000, the point was you can't base it on the number of accounts its how much they are worth and more importantly how profitable they are.

[JFGauvreau]

Ya like nepatsfan said, all matters on how you charge also.

I could probably get a lot more contracts if I would charge 80-100$ bucks for a 4 car space driveway, like the competition does. But I don't, it takes me 3 times more time for me to do the work, because I do a very very nice job, so I charge 225$ instead.

You really have to explain them and show them that you are a legit company making decent money, and not a fly by night.

[4lextrem]

Makes sense,everything is related and/or proportionnal.....+losses+accidents+something breaks+one drops+yada yada i guess.I like controlling so we'll see how it goes.

Btw the estimations are based on cities with 200 000 residents and more,the towns i have in mind pretty much have 4 car driveways maximum,clients with good salaries..and gauvreau i'm actually planning ''around'' 249 +tx lol! I don'T want to ruin myself,the clients driveway AND the ''market price''.

Has someone compiled the average s/f of the driveways you seal per year ?

[Mdirrigation]

First , it doesnt matter what the competition is charging , sell your service , not your price . Second you arent going to do 150 grand right out of the gate , there is a learning curve

[JFGauvreau]

ya 4 car space is around 800sq feet, my base price for that is 200$ + cracks and cleaning.

But seriously, don't expect to land 8 driveways per day, like mdirrigation said, you have a learning curve, people don't know you, you don't know how to do the work properly yet. anyways good luck !

[4lextrem]

ya 4 car space is around 800sq feet, my base price for that is 200$ + cracks and cleaning.

But seriously, don't expect to land 8 driveways per day, like mdirrigation said, you have a learning curve, people don't know you, you don't know how to do the work properly yet. anyways good luck !

Thanks,i landed 2 under an hour while getting lawn contracts signed going door to door..i don't have the equipment tho so..soon.

[Mdirrigation]

No equipment , no experience, sounds like a recipe for problems. You may want to do some friends and familys drives for free to get some practice with the non existant equipment . Nothing worse than getting out on a job and looking like a inexperienced individual. I went thru 200 gallons of sealer on free jobs to get the feel for my equipment and methods of application , and striped 3 parking lots for free for regular customers to get use to those machines .

[4lextrem]

No equipment , no experience, sounds like a recipe for problems. You may want to do some friends and familys drives for free to get some practice with the non existant equipment . Nothing worse than getting out on a job and looking like a inexperienced individual. I went thru 200 gallons of sealer on free jobs to get the feel for my equipment and methods of application , and striped 3 parking lots for free for regular customers to get use to those machines .

I didn't sign any contracts for that,none is even prepared nor am i licensed or registered to do so and indeeds i am not equiped nor am i experienced in that field.

Praticing is a very good idea and i will pratice.Loosing a client's trust,ruining a clients trust towards me..and/or towards other contractors is unnecessary and a sad way to do business.

I've got a good idea on what to buy except for the sealant itself!If you could give me a tip..the one they sell at home depot?Will it stay on for ..3 years like the warranty says?..if i apply it the right way.

I plan on charging a price proportionnal to the quality..so i'd need to know what is good.

No one in my family knows this and the guys at home depot well...i think theyre just half retired lol and dont know either.

[JFGauvreau]

One of my biggest selling point is my product, you obviously don't know the products out there. Just by the fact you said to use the product in home depot, definitely the worst product out there.

You definitely have to do some free jobs first, I started by working for 3 years at a seal coating company, so I got lots of experience before I started my own company. But I did do a lot of screw up, its not as easy as it looks. If you don't spray it the right way, it won't last as long. You can do a lot of over spray when you start, not knowing how to use your equipment properly, and trust me, the sealer is hydrophobic and very hard to take off a garage door, interlock, car.

[4lextrem]

Thanks for the imput,appart from rona/home depot,the only other place i can think of is the sealing company located in Montreal..pretty much the only one actually who sells kits and sealing related equipment..

What product should i look for..tar?

I'm not joking :hammerhead:

[JFGauvreau]

I get my stuff from mcasphalt, big company in canada, they have 2 region in quebec.


MONTREAL Terminal
11451 Sherbrooke
Street E.
Montreal, PQ
H1B 1C2
Tel: 514.645.1691
Fax: 514.645.4401
5am - 7pm, Mon - Fri

VALLEYFIELD Terminal
950 Boul. Cadieux,
Bureau 400
Valleyfield, PQ
J6T 6L4
Tel: 450.377.8420
Fax: 450.377.8411
24 Hours, Mon - Fri

[Field King]

Ya like nepatsfan said, all matters on how you charge also.

I could probably get a lot more contracts if I would charge 80-100$ bucks for a 4 car space driveway, like the competition does. But I don't, it takes me 3 times more time for me to do the work, because I do a very very nice job, so I charge 225$ instead.

You really have to explain them and show them that you are a legit company making decent money, and not a fly by night.

This! I sealcoated 10-15 years ago, residential drives mostly, a few small lots also, I was told several times that I was chosen because of the appearance of my truck and equipment and ads compared to the other guys! I charged double the competition and did a great job! I did not have all new stuff either, I just kept truck clean, ads were spelled correct etc, and keep sealer off of your truck (some guys splash it evrywhere) that is a sign to customer that this may not be the contractor for me!

[JFGauvreau]

Yup very true, I had some customers told me you look more professional and more equipment then the joe blows with rusty pick up and long hair.

Also when you talk to home owner it makes a difference, I spend about 10 mins min explaining what I will do in details to their driveway.

The joe blows will come knock on your door and say: "Hey bud, you want your driveway look black like a brand new one? 100$ bucks lets go.

[BIGBOY2008]

Unless you are assuming the role of the friendly neighborhood handyman you need to stay away from the five gallon bucket stuff from the local lardware store. You will not believe the number of customers who tell me theyve used the five gallon bucket stuff and later it was being tracked into their houses and ruining their carpets. They wore themselves out with the buckets and using the dinky little squeegees and bushes and now two years later their carpets are being ruined by cheap junk sealer.

If you want to find the proper place to buy a good commercial grade asphalt sealer you need to do a internet search for the companies who manufacture the sealer and let them tell you the locations of their nearest bulk plants.

Or you can contact one of your local asphalt parking lot construction contractors. These guys will know who does the striping and sealing and they can tell you the locations of the bulk plants who sell the striping equipment and seal coating products.

The first driveway i sealed i had absolutely zero experience in sealing a driveway. I had two barrels of sealer there and i poured it out and using a commercial asphalt sealer squeegee it took me two hours to do a 14 ft wide by 10 ft long section of the driveway. And i immediately thought to myself....OH CRAP WHAT HAVE I GOT MYSELF INTO AND IVE BIT OF WAY MORE THAN I CAN CHEW I DONT KNOW WHAT IM DOING AND IM IN TROUBLE. Lucky for me it was a relatives driveway where they agreed to pay for the sealer and to also help me (which means they couldnt abandon me mid job) and i had agreed to charge them $7.00 an hour for my labor. And im darn glad i didnt do my first job any other way but that way.

My best bit of advice is do a relatives first and have them agree to but the sealer and help you and you charge them an hourly labor rate to get the hang of using a squeegee. A squeegee is like a paint brush believe it or not and you have to develop a technique for using one. Then get ten to twenty driveways lined up which will allow you to qualify for a quantity discount on your sealer. After 100 gallons i get my sealer for a bit cheaper rate per gallon. This will allow you to seal the smallest ones first and let you develop your skills before moving onto the larger ones. And when you get to the larger ones you will need some skills to do these drives.

[4lextrem]

AH hello there , i just came back from the lawns.

Uh..i saw kits they were selling in montreal,top notch kits without a doubt.

Should i buy one myself? If yes,what is like the minimum power..the model i could start with.

Do i need another unit to (powerwash) wash off the weeds off the cracks on ''pavé-uni'' driveways or is there another way ?

Thanks everyone and thanks gvgaudreau for the place you wrote down on the thread i will go.

Good night , supper time+bank for deposits.It was great outside today Thumbs Up

[4lextrem]

I also noticed you saying coal tar is good.

So it's the way to go?

[JFGauvreau]

to kill the weeds off interlock I would say some go with hot vinegar, then come back in a couple of days and power wash it.

[4lextrem]

to kill the weeds off interlock I would say some go with hot vinegar, then come back in a couple of days and power wash it.

NOw that i know it calleds interlock,i got a lot of imput..and yes indeeds i just saw vinegar and tvk..thanks.

I'm thinking about that..plugging a coal toar unit(motor/pump/etc)to a tank filled with sealant for interlock wouldnt be good right?

SO i specialize in one of them or..i buy 2 units right?

Also,if i buy a unit for interlock,appart from calling someone who powerwashes,how could i do it myself?Another motor/pump/spray gun with a water/soap filled tank for the prep?

As i once said,im french so i hope i clear and not too confusing.

[4lextrem]

Nevermind i checked it up it's ok.

I wanted to edit my post but the option went away so anyway.

Just saw some mobile power wash units,some ready to be installed and tightened.

Interesting question..if i buy a mobile unit and i ,later on,screw it in the back of the pickup with a tank and a hose..will it be strong enough even if the hose is much more long than before?

LIke what's the minimum power i need for water powerwash..

Minimum power for coal tar shooting (or alphalt emulsion if its better.)