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View Full Version : BRAND NEW Lazer Z Advantage series X UNDERPOWERED


ktoom
06-15-2010, 08:07 PM
Today i picked up a brand new Lazer Z advantage series X 52" mower with the 23 Kohler and the ultra vac system. Well i role up to the first house which has a hill in the front of it. When i went to mow the hill the mower bogged down real bad while going up the hill. If i pushed the bars harder it probably would have stalled. Im very pissed because my dealer said i would be fine with the 23hp kohler and so far im not happy. I should have got the 27HP kohler. This thing don;t even have 1 hr on it yet. Am i over reacting and should i let it break in???? Or is this a problem other people have too? Im gonna contact the dealer tomorrow. My 2006 lazer z hp 50" goes up the same hill better than the new mower. The new mower also feels heaver too. What do you guys think i should do? Thanks Chris

Mark Oomkes
06-15-2010, 08:09 PM
Always, always, always get the largest engine available.

Zivman
06-15-2010, 08:09 PM
with the research i did, I would think a 23hp on a 52" setup would be just enough. Not overpowered, but should do the job. If you are upset, I would discuss it with the dealer and see what you can workout.

ktoom
06-15-2010, 08:24 PM
with the research i did, I would think a 23hp on a 52" setup would be just enough. Not overpowered, but should do the job. If you are upset, I would discuss it with the dealer and see what you can workout.
It may be enough without the collection vac, but i bag most of the lawns. We have a 23hp kawi on the other mower so i thought everything would have been fine, not worse lol.

thomp62301
06-15-2010, 08:35 PM
I always recomended the 27hp when i'm selling that unit with a bagger. It's ok without a vac.

BINKY1902
06-15-2010, 08:54 PM
You will gain more power once the engine breaks in. Any engine becomes more efficient (powerful) when it gets broke in.

ktoom
06-15-2010, 09:39 PM
I always recomended the 27hp when i'm selling that unit with a bagger. It's ok without a vac.

We were gonna go with the 27hp, but my dealer said it was a bad idea if we were gonna sell the mower in 3 years. I mean what can my dealer really do for me if now i want the other motor? I know im gonna have to pay extra for the bigger motor. Its tough cuz do i call the dealer up and tell him my issue or do i run it and see if it gets better? Im also worried that even if i let the motor break in im gonna be out luck if it still is under power for my needs.

Zivman
06-15-2010, 09:43 PM
It may be enough without the collection vac, but i bag most of the lawns. We have a 23hp kawi on the other mower so i thought everything would have been fine, not worse lol.

the Kawasaki is probably a better motor. I feel for ya, hope you can work something out with the dealer. Even with break-in, I doubt it will satisfy you in terms of power. Call your dealer, tell him the 'demo' didn't go well and you definitely want the 27.

puppypaws
06-15-2010, 09:48 PM
Today i picked up a brand new Lazer Z advantage series X 52" mower with the 23 Kohler and the ultra vac system. Well i role up to the first house which has a hill in the front of it. When i went to mow the hill the mower bogged down real bad while going up the hill. If i pushed the bars harder it probably would have stalled. Im very pissed because my dealer said i would be fine with the 23hp kohler and so far im not happy. I should have got the 27HP kohler. This thing don;t even have 1 hr on it yet. Am i over reacting and should i let it break in???? Or is this a problem other people have too? Im gonna contact the dealer tomorrow. My 2006 lazer z hp 50" goes up the same hill better than the new mower. The new mower also feels heaver too. What do you guys think i should do? Thanks Chris

The vac system is causing your main problem, when in doubt, always go stout! You better do something about your new Exmark in a hurry, or you will be sick every time you operate it.

Darryl G
06-15-2010, 09:56 PM
the Kawasaki is probably a better motor. I feel for ya, hope you can work something out with the dealer. Even with break-in, I doubt it will satisfy you in terms of power. Call your dealer, tell him the 'demo' didn't go well and you definitely want the 27.

I ditto that.

ktoom
06-15-2010, 10:51 PM
the Kawasaki is probably a better motor. I feel for ya, hope you can work something out with the dealer. Even with break-in, I doubt it will satisfy you in terms of power. Call your dealer, tell him the 'demo' didn't go well and you definitely want the 27.

Well we already purchased this mower. Im actually glad i went to the house i did first. If i hadn't, i would have never known about this problem till later in the week or even next week lol.

Darryl G
06-15-2010, 10:57 PM
I really would make some noise with the dealer. Maybe he can clean it up and sell it to someone else for a small discount. Don't consider a done deal. Dealers do not want unhappy customers...who does? Really, don't use it, put it on the trailer, bring it back and tell them you want to trade it up to somethng with a bigger motor. They gave you bad info and you based your decision on it. Don't just lie down on us here! Get a machine that will work for you!!!

ktoom
06-15-2010, 11:03 PM
I really would make some noise with the dealer. Maybe he can clean it up and sell it to someone else for a small discount. Don't consider a done deal. Dealers do not want unhappy customers...who does? Really, don't use it, put it on the trailer, bring it back and tell them you want to trade it up to somethng with a bigger motor. They gave you bad info and you based your decision on it. Don't just lie down on us here! Get a machine that will work for you!!!

Hahahahaha thanks. I will let you guys know how i make out tomorrow. Thanks

ZTR_Diesel
06-16-2010, 12:21 AM
For how long and under what conditions did you DEMO your mower...exactly as you intended to use it?

I have not ever purchased a mower, car, truck, motorcycle, etc that I didn't test out for a good length of time, under a wide variety of conditions first. This is NOT the dealer's problem.

I do agree, however that it's odd they steered you toward the smaller engine.

Grubrunner
06-16-2010, 12:34 AM
It may be enough without the collection vac, but i bag most of the lawns. We have a 23hp kawi on the other mower so i thought everything would have been fine, not worse lol.

Comparing a 23HP Kawasaki to a 23HP Kohler??? C'mon....

You will gain more power once the engine breaks in. Any engine becomes more efficient (powerful) when it gets broke in.

Without a doubt!


Anyway, just for the record: I very recently purchased an Exmark Advantage Series X 48" UltraCut[LZAS22KA484] with the 22HP Kawasaki motor and Twin UltraVac Bagger system and it bags and runs like a charm.

You really should of gone with the bigger engine - as many have stated already - but I have no doubt that as you put some hours on that engine you now have, things will get better.... not sure though whether it'll still be enough ponies for you and the task at hand.

Good luck.

ktoom
06-16-2010, 06:09 AM
We should have demo'ed the mower first, but to tell you truth i don't think my dealer could get a hold of one at the time and we are in need of a new mower asap. Not to mention it took 2 weeks to get the mower and bagger in. I have alot of trust in my dealer and have been doing business for years with him. I took his word for it that the motor would have plenty of power because of my past experiences with Exmark mowers too. Im not looking for any freebies form my dealer, i just need to see what we can do now. As someone else posted, i don't wanna be sick to my stomach when going up a hill, cuz the motor is bogging down. One of the big factor's was how much money we could spend so we opted to not get the bigger motor.

Mark Oomkes
06-16-2010, 08:02 AM
I really would make some noise with the dealer. Maybe he can clean it up and sell it to someone else for a small discount. Don't consider a done deal. Dealers do not want unhappy customers...who does? Really, don't use it, put it on the trailer, bring it back and tell them you want to trade it up to somethng with a bigger motor. They gave you bad info and you based your decision on it. Don't just lie down on us here! Get a machine that will work for you!!!

Agreed!

This is NOT the dealer's problem.

Could be, if he was really pushing for the sale. Not all sales reps are that intelligent.

I do agree, however that it's odd they steered you toward the smaller engine.

Not if he really, really wanted the sale.

We should have demo'ed the mower first, but to tell you truth i don't think my dealer could get a hold of one at the time and we are in need of a new mower asap. Not to mention it took 2 weeks to get the mower and bagger in. I have alot of trust in my dealer and have been doing business for years with him. I took his word for it that the motor would have plenty of power because of my past experiences with Exmark mowers too. Im not looking for any freebies form my dealer, i just need to see what we can do now. As someone else posted, i don't wanna be sick to my stomach when going up a hill, cuz the motor is bogging down. One of the big factor's was how much money we could spend so we opted to not get the bigger motor.

FWIW, I have 23's on my walk behinds. Crappy Daihatsu diesels on my UltraVacs. But they will out work a gasser any and every day using a fraction of the fuel the gassers will. If I could get diesels on my WBs I would.

Fuel savings alone from a bigger engine will pay for any extra cost involved.

There is no substitute for HP. Well, I suppose you could argue torque, but they usually don't publish torque numbers or a curve for these engines.

PierreCiCi
06-16-2010, 08:38 AM
I just purchased a new Wright RH Stander. My dealer told me to run it for a few days and if I didn't like to bring it back and trade for something else. I would definitely give the dealer a call ASAP. You will never be happy with that mower.

puppypaws
06-16-2010, 10:05 AM
For how long and under what conditions did you DEMO your mower...exactly as you intended to use it?

I have not ever purchased a mower, car, truck, motorcycle, etc that I didn't test out for a good length of time, under a wide variety of conditions first. This is NOT the dealer's problem.

I do agree, however that it's odd they steered you toward the smaller engine.

Yes, you should always demo in your conditions when given the chance (demos not always allowed), but on the other side of the flipped coin; any dealer selling and servicing mowers should know exactly how every single mower he represents handles all cutting situations. When he has no common knowledge the dealer must falsify information in attempt to sell his product, in other words, he can never tell the truth about the performance any machine he has no experience with.

The dealer should have told the gentleman (if he actually had the knowledge from experience), that there would be many times a 23 hp engine would not have satisfactory power while operating the ultra vac system.

I can promise what takes place a large percentage of the time is the dealer gives a sales pitch sounding as though he has many hours experience with what he is attempting to sell. When in all reality he had never personally operated that particular mower with the ultra vac system (just an example). I am not saying this is always the case, but more so than we care to believe. A number of dealer's that have a mower they need to get out of inventory will tell you anything they believe you need to hear in an attempt to rid themselves of that particular unit .

I am sorry, but this is what comes from dealing in an unfair business world, one where a certain percentage of business owners always want to come out on top; whether the customer is treated fairly or not.

Mark Oomkes
06-16-2010, 10:32 AM
Yes, you should always demo in your conditions when given the chance (demos not always allowed), but on the other side of the flipped coin; any dealer selling and servicing mowers should know exactly how every single mower he represents handles all cutting situations. When he has no common knowledge the dealer must falsify information in attempt to sell his product, in other words, he can never tell the truth about the performance any machine he has no experience with.

The dealer should have told the gentleman (if he actually had the knowledge from experience), that there would be many times a 23 hp engine would not have satisfactory power while operating the ultra vac system.

I can promise what takes place a large percentage of the time is the dealer gives a sales pitch sounding as though he has many hours experience with what he is attempting to sell. When in all reality he had never personally operated that particular mower with the ultra vac system (just an example). I am not saying this is always the case, but more so than we care to believe. A number of dealer's that have a mower they need to get out of inventory will tell you anything they believe you need to hear in an attempt to rid themselves of that particular unit .

I am sorry, but this is what comes from dealing in an unfair business world, one where a certain percentage of business owners always want to come out on top; whether the customer is treated fairly or not.

Long story that I'll try to abridge.

Back in the late 90's I was speccing an F800. Sales rep was very knowledgeable but insisted that because we only would use it for about 10-12K miles a year a diesel was a waste of money. Never mind the 10' plow hanging off the front and the 6 tons of salt in the back, or the trailer we would pull in the summer, we didn't need\would be stupid for getting a diesel in that truck. I talked to several other people, including the service manager and told him what we were going to use it for. He told me to run as far away as I could from the gasser (429 FI) option because of the problems they were having and because it would not do what we needed it to do; haul a lot of salt, pull heavy trailers, mount a 1500 de-icing sprayer, etc. He said miles were pointless, get the diesel.

So while the gasser probably would have been just fine half the time for this truck, the other half--when I really need the power--it would have been a POS. Still have that truck today and will be able to keep it for many, many more years as long as I maintain the body.

Go big or go home is the moral of the story.

puppypaws
06-16-2010, 11:38 AM
Long story that I'll try to abridge.

Back in the late 90's I was speccing an F800. Sales rep was very knowledgeable but insisted that because we only would use it for about 10-12K miles a year a diesel was a waste of money. Never mind the 10' plow hanging off the front and the 6 tons of salt in the back, or the trailer we would pull in the summer, we didn't need\would be stupid for getting a diesel in that truck. I talked to several other people, including the service manager and told him what we were going to use it for. He told me to run as far away as I could from the gasser (429 FI) option because of the problems they were having and because it would not do what we needed it to do; haul a lot of salt, pull heavy trailers, mount a 1500 de-icing sprayer, etc. He said miles were pointless, get the diesel.

So while the gasser probably would have been just fine half the time for this truck, the other half--when I really need the power--it would have been a POS. Still have that truck today and will be able to keep it for many, many more years as long as I maintain the body.

Go big or go home is the moral of the story.

Good story, and a smart decision! What happened in your story has always been the philosophy I've used, "WHEN IN DOUBT GO STOUT," a good line of reasoning to pursue.

retrodog
06-16-2010, 12:00 PM
I have noticed that on alot of these engines coming in from the factory the RPMS are not set at the normal operating setting for the engine due to break in period. You might ask your dealer if this is the case on your motor. I have seen alot of 60" decks with 23hp Kohler that operate just fine at the right RPMS, that coming from a guy that my smallest engine on a 60" is a 32hp Vanguard though....lol. More is always better.

ktoom
06-16-2010, 03:27 PM
I called the dealer today, he told me to run it for a week and see what happens. He said go back to the same house with the hill in a week and see if it goes up the hill any better. He told me that if i wasn't happy, that he would have the mower checked out to make sure it was okay. Then if im still not happy with the performance, he would contact Exmark to see what they can do. He also said that he doesn't think that the 27hp motor will make that much of a difference. I felt like a dummy calling and complaining about a mower that i haven"t put an hour on yet, but i really expected alot more. I actually looked up the weight on both my zero turns and the new one weighs 40lbs more with the bagging system installed. With out the bagger's installed on both mowers, the new mower weighs less than the old one. So the bagger actually weighs more on the new mower than the old one.

Grubrunner
06-16-2010, 06:39 PM
I called the dealer today, he told me to run it for a week and see what happens. He said go back to the same house with the hill in a week and see if it goes up the hill any better. He told me that if i wasn't happy, that he would have the mower checked out to make sure it was okay. Then if im still not happy with the performance, he would contact Exmark to see what they can do. He also said that he doesn't think that the 27hp motor will make that much of a difference. I felt like a dummy calling and complaining about a mower that i haven"t put an hour on yet, but i really expected alot more. I actually looked up the weight on both my zero turns and the new one weighs 40lbs more with the bagging system installed. With out the bagger's installed on both mowers, the new mower weighs less than the old one. So the bagger actually weighs more on the new mower than the old one.

Remember also the toe and/or caster weights contribute significantly.

They're needed to counterbalance the bagger's load.

The dealer's comment "... he doesn't think that the 27hp motor will make that much of a difference." is not accurate and a little outlandish, IMHO.

The 27HP Kohler is a damn powerful engine. A guy I work with [my fulltime job] has a Scag Turf Tiger™ 52" Velocity Plus™ Cutter Deck [STT52V-27CH] he purchased earlier this year and it has amples of power. He does all commercial businesses without any under-powered issues.... though he has no bagger.

Hope your issue resolves itself.

puppypaws
06-16-2010, 09:55 PM
I called the dealer today, he told me to run it for a week and see what happens. He said go back to the same house with the hill in a week and see if it goes up the hill any better. He told me that if i wasn't happy, that he would have the mower checked out to make sure it was okay. Then if im still not happy with the performance, he would contact Exmark to see what they can do. He also said that he doesn't think that the 27hp motor will make that much of a difference. I felt like a dummy calling and complaining about a mower that i haven"t put an hour on yet, but i really expected alot more. I actually looked up the weight on both my zero turns and the new one weighs 40lbs more with the bagging system installed. With out the bagger's installed on both mowers, the new mower weighs less than the old one. So the bagger actually weighs more on the new mower than the old one.

The only possible adjustment that could make a significant difference would be if the rpm's were set much too low and needed to be increased. The dealer is very unknowing if he actually believes a 27 is not like the difference in night and day when comparing to a 23. I find it hard to believe, in reality, he made a statement that foolish.

bobhardt
06-16-2010, 10:21 PM
I think the dealer made a dumb statement about the 27 horse not making much of a difference. I would also be very leary about putting any more hours on the machine. I would want the upgraded engine and hopefully handle this like it was a demo.

tacoma200
06-16-2010, 10:54 PM
I think the dealer made a dumb statement about the 27 horse not making much of a difference. I would also be very leary about putting any more hours on the machine. I would want the upgraded engine and hopefully handle this like it was a demo.

I agree, I wouldn't put any more hours on it. A 23 is just sufficient for a 52" deck.

Your dealer/salesman was just plain wrong. 23 hp is not enough for what you are doing, the ultravac really takes a lot more HP. I am sure that emotionally you are stressed but if the dealer is fair he will get you into a more powerful machine asap.

You need more hp/torque, no extra test or demoing is going to help.

tacoma200
06-16-2010, 10:55 PM
P.S. Most lawnsite members are much more knowledgeable than most salesman or dealerships. 20-23 hp is the minimum for a 52" deck with no ultravac.

djflats
06-16-2010, 11:07 PM
I have a 25 HP on a 60", last year's Next Lazer A/S and it does fine. I have to admit though, I don't bag. That may be another story I'm sure.

MJB
06-16-2010, 11:35 PM
I demoed a Gravely and bought it on the spot due to need and I had heard how great they were. As soon as the salesman left I took the mower to another job with a hill and tried it, and then it hit me in the pit of my stomach I just made a huge mistake. This mower was stuck on a hill pointed downhill, and I could not get it to turn around like all my other mowers. I knew this mower was a mistake and called him and said I don't want it. He left it with me for 3 weeks and I put about 8 hrs on it and hated it. They come and got it because I was not satisfied. So don't be afraid to speak up....Go with your gut feeling or you will regret it!

Oldtimer
06-20-2010, 12:29 AM
Too much horsepower is almost enough.


Oldtimer

puppypaws
06-20-2010, 08:42 AM
Too much horsepower is almost enough.


Oldtimer

That is a very accurate statement, I will try and remember that as a quote!!!

Oldtimer
06-20-2010, 10:19 AM
That was a quote from late Mickey Thompson.


Oldtimer

topsites
06-20-2010, 10:22 AM
Is this your first Ztr?
In most cases they require a very LIGHT touch on the sticks.
You can not, as a rule, just DRIVE those things, she will stall.

with the research i did, I would think a 23hp on a 52" setup would be just enough. Not overpowered, but should do the job. If you are upset, I would discuss it with the dealer and see what you can workout.

Yeah because I've got a 25hp Kasawooki on my 60" Everride and it's got TONS of power.

20-23 hp is the minimum for a 52" deck with no ultravac.

Ahhh well, that could be.

Bumpmaster
06-20-2010, 10:31 AM
I run a 52 with a 23 horsepower Kawasaki not bagging without a problem. I hear you can get a different carborater for the engine that will give it a couple extra horsepower witch might be enough for the bagger. If that does not work I would seggust ditching the bagger and mowing higher with a big back pack blower.

ktoom
06-20-2010, 10:51 AM
Ive put 4hrs on it this past week. Monday i start mowing again and i will be headed to the same house with the hill. There were a few other houses that have hills and i noticed the problem there too, but if i didn't push the mower hard it would go up them fine. On flat land it does good, but not great. I say that because when i push it hard i can hear the blades slowing down and the deck doesn't sound as loud. Anyways, for the last 2 houses i mowed, i took the bagger off. That's when the mower ran great. I could fly with it and the discharge was great. I love the mower except for the power issue. I know its not gonna really change and i know im gonna be making the phone call to my dealer this week. I know, like everything else, there is a break in period. Well to me broken in would be 30hrs or more and what happens if there is still no difference??

Here's some interesting thing's about the mower, with the bagger on it, i would like to share with you guys.

There are 3 counter weights on the front of the mower.... well guess what???? That's aint enough weight lol. I had one bag full and the other bag was half full. I still managed to pop the front end of the ground with out trying. I feel like the front end gets very light, even on flat ground, as you are mowing. My Lazer HP never felt like that, even when it was almost full.
I also noticed that the bagger sits higher on the back of the mower. To me, now there is too much weight on the back of the mower and barely any weight on the front of the mower. Now that goes back to my statement that the 3 weights on the front aren't enough.
The last thing id like to share is about the front tires. Since the mower is the Advantage series it has the air filled front tires where the Lazer Z has the hard rubber front tires that dont have air in them. I was starting to think that the air in the tires had something to do with front end feeling light and bouncy.

Cutter1
06-20-2010, 11:19 AM
I have had numerous 23 kaw's and 23 kohlers. I always said the Kaw's had a lot more power. I never had problems pulling hills with the vac on with the Kaw's......I switched to kohlers and they suck on hills.

ktoom
06-20-2010, 11:27 AM
Is this your first Ztr?
In most cases they require a very LIGHT touch on the sticks.
You can not, as a rule, just DRIVE those things, she will stall.



Yeah because I've got a 25hp Kasawooki on my 60" Everride and it's got TONS of power.



Ahhh well, that could be.

Hahahahaha no its not my first zero turn lol..... been in this trade for a while now. I do not run the mower like a turtle..... like i see some operator's do lol. Time is money lol. Im pretty aggressive just because of my experience on zero turns, but i do know my limits. I don't beat on the mower, but i do push it hard sometimes where and when i can. The 23hp Kohler is plenty for the mower WITHOUT the ultravac. The most sick mower I ever ran was a Lazer Z 60" with the 35HP Briggs and it had the ultra vac system too. Now that was a mower you could go as fast as the bars would let you lolololol.

ktoom
06-20-2010, 11:30 AM
I have had numerous 23 kaw's and 23 kohlers. I always said the Kaw's had a lot more power. I never had problems pulling hills with the vac on with the Kaw's......I switched to kohlers and they suck on hills.

FINALLY SOMEONE WITH THE SAME ISSUE LOL. I feel my Lazer HP with the 23 Kawi with the ultra vac, does hills better than my new mower. Im sorry but that's not right.

Cutter1
06-20-2010, 12:31 PM
I still tell my dealer to this day that I like my Kaw's better than Kohler. He just says, I know you tell me all the time. I have the 27 Kohlers on my 56 decks, I hate those ones too.

Bumpmaster
06-20-2010, 12:49 PM
Kohler makes facet fixtures, Kawasaki makes internal combustion engins

ktoom
06-20-2010, 01:41 PM
I still tell my dealer to this day that I like my Kaw's better than Kohler. He just says, I know you tell me all the time. I have the 27 Kohlers on my 56 decks, I hate those ones too.

Im glad you said that. Im just worried that we swap out the 23 kohler for the 27 and i still won't be happy. What don't you like about it? Can you really notice a difference in power from the 23 to the 27?

Darryl G
06-20-2010, 01:56 PM
I'm sure the 15% increase in power makes no difference.:rolleyes:

soloscaperman
06-20-2010, 02:09 PM
Were you running fresh 93 gas? I have a 27HP Kohler on a 52 deck ZTR and it just kicks as**. It's actually over powered LOL.

bohiaa
06-20-2010, 02:19 PM
It may be enough without the collection vac, but i bag most of the lawns. We have a 23hp kawi on the other mower so i thought everything would have been fine, not worse lol.

yea, me too.... I was also thinking about the GRASS he was cutting, and the hight of the grass and the hight he was cutting. the type of blades, and if it was wet or not....

People seem to leave out a lot of info...

Cutter1
06-20-2010, 03:35 PM
I think the 27 would be good on a 52 deck. I have had 6 or 7 lasers with a 56 deck and I think they are underpowered on that, just like the 23 kohler on the 52 decks use to be. I am positive, just like everyone else is saying, that you will notice a difference and be happy with a 27 on the 52 deck.

Cutter1
06-20-2010, 03:45 PM
also getting sick of exmark changing deck sizes every couple of years. Starting to piss me off. I use to run 52 obviously. Then they stopped making those, starrted trading those in on the 56's. NOW, they are stopping the 56's. getting old.

puppypaws
06-20-2010, 04:03 PM
Im glad you said that. Im just worried that we swap out the 23 kohler for the 27 and i still won't be happy. What don't you like about it? Can you really notice a difference in power from the 23 to the 27?

The paint on a new Hustler Super Z I owned (125 hrs.) had a problem and was popping off, Hustler told me instead of repainting the mower they would bring me a new Super Z for their cost difference (excellent customer service). They had just started putting the 27 hp Kohler's on their 60" Super Z's and I paid them $400.00 for a brand new mower (newer year model), with a 2 hp larger engine, very good deal, yes!

I was mowing in reasonably heavy grass with the 25 hp Kawasaki when they delivered the new Super Z. The grass I was mowing pulled on the 25's rpm's slowing it down somewhat, I drove immediately to where the driver was unloading the new mower. I talked with him a couple of minutes, got on the new 27 hp Kohler powered Super Z and went straight back to the next pass in the same grass I left which was pulling on the 25. I said to myself, this will let me know real fast if I can tell a power difference, I pushed it to full stick and mowed the next pass with no sound change (rpm drop) in the engine. I knew immediately the 27 hp Kohler was definitely showing me a 2 hp stronger engine than the 25 hp Kawasaki.

This is telling you if there is a considerable difference to be noticed between a 25 hp Kawasaki and a 27 hp Kohler on the identical same mower, there will be a great deal of power difference between a 23 and 27.

ktoom
06-21-2010, 06:13 AM
yea, me too.... I was also thinking about the GRASS he was cutting, and the hight of the grass and the hight he was cutting. the type of blades, and if it was wet or not....

People seem to leave out a lot of info...

How bout the lawn was mostly clover, mowing at 3.5 with high lift blades and i was taking off a half inch. I do only part time mowing for the company, so anytime i mow its around 4pm so the grass was dry as a bone. Besides this lawn most of the other lawns have irrigation systems and get fert treatments. Whatever grasses grow here in the northeast is what im mowing lol.

BINKY1902
06-21-2010, 09:13 AM
First thing I would do is put a handheld tach on it and make sure it is running at the recommended rpm's. If it's not in the sweet spot it's not going to perform how they intended it to.

bobo316
06-21-2010, 09:31 AM
First thing I would do is put a handheld tach on it and make sure it is running at the recommended rpm's. If it's not in the sweet spot it's not going to perform how they intended it to.
i also have a 52" lazer w 23 kolher,how do u put a tachmeter on one?and does anyone know what rpms should be around?

retrodog
06-21-2010, 12:54 PM
Is it me, or do the new Kohlers tend to have more of a "ticking" sound when they run? It might be just me, but compared to the other brands, I notice quite a bit more of the ticking now... almost like you can hear the lifters more now.

dtc0207
06-21-2010, 01:31 PM
Is it me, or do the new Kohlers tend to have more of a "ticking" sound when they run? It might be just me, but compared to the other brands, I notice quite a bit more of the ticking now... almost like you can hear the lifters more now.

it is air in the lifter let it run on low idle for about 20 min and you should notice it goes away alot of times this happen on brand new engines and just after an oil change and yes they did change lifter companies

puppypaws
06-21-2010, 02:41 PM
it is air in the lifter let it run on low idle for about 20 min and you should notice it goes away alot of times this happen on brand new engines and just after an oil change and yes they did change lifter companies

Are you familiar with the additive in Kohler oil used for the specific reason of quieting down the noisy lifters? Their lifters were once "very" noisy, and you said they have changed lifter vendors, this could have helped the problem more than anything they've done.

ktoom
07-11-2010, 10:45 AM
Well i put 14hrs on the mower and still had the same issue. I brought the mower to the dealer this past weds and on friday it was ready. The mechanic told me the rpm's were 200rpm's lower than what "he" usually sets them at. He even called Exmark to see if they were having any issues with the mower and they said no. Im gonna mow with it this week and if im not happy the dealer said bring it back.
You guys think 200rpm will make a noticeable difference? The mechanic told me he doesn't like to set the rpm's at the max, so he sets it a tiny bit before the recommended max rpm.

ktoom
07-11-2010, 11:41 AM
Well i just tried it out on a hill at my house and got the same result. I even tried it on flat ground and got the same result. I just dont get how a 23 Kawi is that much better than a 23 Kohler??? My dealer swore to me that the 23 Kohler was enough power.... yea right. He aint on these mowers all week long.

chad56
07-11-2010, 02:19 PM
I always recomended the 27hp when i'm selling that unit with a bagger. It's ok without a vac.

I have to agree. I sell scags not exmark but i would think with bagging you should have went with the 27hp. I know I would have recommend it.

puppypaws
07-11-2010, 02:36 PM
I have to agree. I sell scags not exmark but i would think with bagging you should have went with the 27hp. I know I would have recommend it.

It is very simple, he did not get enough hp to meet his needs, and was steered wrong by someone than more than likely does not have the necessary experience (seat time with same setup) to provide advice.

balreadysaid
07-11-2010, 02:47 PM
a 27 kohler is way better than a 23! i run a 23 kohler commnand on a 44" deck with bagger and blower and it is good for going up hills but it wouldnt handle any bigger of a deck, and leave a nice cut.

you neeed to get rid of the mower, get one with a kawasaki fx serries block they range from 24-37hp and have way more torque than the kohler motors. my buddy just bought a exmark with bagger and 27hpo kohler it runs good from what i have seen but he doesnt fly with it.

Groomer
07-11-2010, 05:58 PM
wonder how much the guy weighs?

ktoom
07-11-2010, 07:16 PM
I weigh 220lbs. My brother in law, aka the other operator, weighs almost 300lbs lol. See my dealer has yet to admit that he is wrong. Thats whats bugging me alot. He's taking the approach like something is worng with the mower, but there isnt mechanically. Plus he left out a few thing when comparing the Next Lazer Z and Next Lazer Z advantage. If we had known about the difference sooner, we would have ordered the lazer Z. We will see what happens when.
A question for you dealers on here, What would u do in this situation? Like whats gonna happen now for me? Thanks Chris

balreadysaid
07-11-2010, 08:08 PM
I weigh 220lbs. My brother in law, aka the other operator, weighs almost 300lbs lol. See my dealer has yet to admit that he is wrong. Thats whats bugging me alot. He's taking the approach like something is worng with the mower, but there isnt mechanically. Plus he left out a few thing when comparing the Next Lazer Z and Next Lazer Z advantage. If we had known about the difference sooner, we would have ordered the lazer Z. We will see what happens when.
A question for you dealers on here, What would u do in this situation? Like whats gonna happen now for me? Thanks Chris



your dealer needs to learn from this! anyone that walks in that might be a little bigger than the other guy he needs to point them in the right direction. too much money for a bagger and mower for it not to perform. especially when ur in a hurrry! time is money. i can say that the big lazer on a hilll with the 34 is quite good i stripe up and down all hills with no problem. i seem to be wearing the tires out quickly but it makes sense cause the machine doesnt slide at all and never lets me down.

cutterschoice24
07-11-2010, 10:07 PM
i would say get the bigger motor i learned the hard way bought a scag 48 tiger cub 19 kawi and it ran awesome i put a hurricane mulch kit on it which is an awesome system and realized how under power it was so my new exmark next lazer z has 23 kohler command pro with the mulch kit it works great and has plenty of power but it doesn't mulch as good as the scag though oh well.still nice cut

Oldtimer
07-13-2010, 09:11 AM
Horse power is your friend.

Oldtimer

Golfpro21
07-13-2010, 09:32 AM
i would not even compare a kohler to a kawi.......kawi is so much more of an engine....we have some kohlers on some mowers, they suck in my opinion, they easily stall and flood, and in my opinion, they have no where near the torque a kawi does

rlong97150
07-13-2010, 11:52 AM
Probably not your problem in this case but I was having issues with my G3 Toro with the 23 Kohler when I first got it a month ago. Down on power and irratic rpms once it got warm. Its a 48 inch deck with a 2 bag system on it. Dealer checked it out a couple times to no avail and finally received a service bulletin that on some serial numbers, the muffler shield was mounted upside down. Mine was outside the serial number range but the shield was on wrong. Once turned around, it was a different mower. Never runs out of power now while bagging (within reason of course). I am not a huge Kohler fan but needed a bagger and this mower was priced at cost to move.

BTW, I took the three weights off the front of mine. It was tearing up the grass something fierce when turning. Its a little light in the front end with the bags full but manageable. I dont mow any hills to speak of so wouldnt work for most areas but it does fine here.

Thanks

Bob

grass catcher
07-13-2010, 12:05 PM
I ditto that.

I have 717 jd z trak 48 in 19 hp and with the bagger it is under powered
I have 580 hrs on it the lazer will not gain anymore power trade it back for the bigger motor

THG
07-16-2010, 01:50 PM
ktoom,
How did this work out for you?

ktoom
09-06-2010, 09:04 AM
Hey guys, its been a month and half since ive been on here lol. We are now in the process of getting a new mower. Turns out there was something wrong with the motor. We had a Exmark rep come out with us and he seen the problem first hand. On any hills or while cutting thick grass with the ultra vac system installed, the rpm's would drop 300 to 600 from where they normally should be. First we tried replacing the vac for the bagger, but it wasn't that. We have decided to upgrade to the Lazer Z w/ the 27HP just for peace of mind and for a few other reasons. My Dealer and Exmark have been very good with this whole situation.

ktoom
09-15-2010, 07:21 AM
Hey guys, its been a month and half since ive been on here lol. We are now in the process of getting a new mower. Turns out there was something wrong with the motor. We had a Exmark rep come out with us and he seen the problem first hand. On any hills or while cutting thick grass with the ultra vac system installed, the rpm's would drop 300 to 600 from where they normally should be. First we tried replacing the vac for the bagger, but it wasn't that. We have decided to upgrade to the Lazer Z w/ the 27HP just for peace of mind and for a few other reasons. My Dealer and Exmark have been very good with this whole situation.

Okay so we got the new mower. BUT still seem to be having the same issue. Every time I go up a hill or slight grade the rpm's drop. Its like this new mower has the same power as the one we just got rid of. I just wonder if there is an underlying problem with the new pump system zapping the power more than the old style pump system. I can't believe nobody else has this problem.
I've got 2 hrs on the mower so far. I have always loved Exmarks, but I think I'm gonna switch brands for the next mower I buy.
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
09-15-2010, 09:41 AM
Okay so we got the new mower. BUT still seem to be having the same issue. Every time I go up a hill or slight grade the rpm's drop. Its like this new mower has the same power as the one we just got rid of. I just wonder if there is an underlying problem with the new pump system zapping the power more than the old style pump system. I can't believe nobody else has this problem.
I've got 2 hrs on the mower so far. I have always loved Exmarks, but I think I'm gonna switch brands for the next mower I buy.
Posted via Mobile Device

You need to get to the highest level of customer support, which to do this you must call Exmark corporate headquarters and ask for their corporate response team. You will more than likely find someone answering the phone that will have no idea of what a corporate response team is, or does. You then tell them you want to speak with their highest level of customer support. Once you are satisfied you are speaking with a person of authority, one you feel can make things happen, then give them all the details, even down to the most minute.

Explain to them you want to be visited by someone with Exmark that is genuinely interested in your problem, someone that is concerned enough to see your problem is remedied, not just for you, but for Exmark as well.

This problem solving not only helps you (if it can be solved immediately), but helps Exmark far above and beyond to know these problems exist. This type thing is what keeps a good company in business, and it is no more than making wrong things right with the equipment they sell.

You may find this interesting, let's find out how well it actually works.

http://pressroom.exmark.com/news_releases/news080522.htm

Call (402) 223-6300

Maddskill
09-15-2010, 09:51 AM
One Word "Diesel." They cost a bit more but well worth the money. I have a 61" Grasshopper and this thing has plenty of power. You will have plenty of power, great fuel consumption, and low maintenance. Right now I just hope I find more properties I can use with this thing. hehe

ktoom
05-15-2011, 09:33 AM
Time for an update guys:

Now over the winter, Exmark took my down to there head quarters, did a whole bunch of tests and adjusted the mower to hopefully make it better. Once we started using the mower, after getting it back, we noticed no difference in power.

Last weekend we met with the Exmark rep at one of our accounts that has lots of hills and flat ground. He brought a new Lazer Z with the 27hp Kohler and ultra vac system..... Same exact mower as mine.... Which means they performed exactly the same. The Exmark rep even got on the mowers and experienced the problem. He blamed it on the EPA, saying that the motors are too corked up and that this is all he could offer me in a 52" mower. I then showed him on paper that the spec's were identical for a 27hp Kohler and a 24hp Kawi and that the 27hp Kawi is more motor than the Kohler. My dealer an him kept saying the the 27hp Kohler and 27hp Kawi were identical.... I win hahaha

My next step was to try a Toro G3 with a bagging system and the 27hp Kawi. Yesterday my dealer called me saying he had a demo one down at his shop and for me to come pick it up asap. We pick up the mower and head to the same place we were at last weekend. Now we compared my Exmark with the Toro and there was a definite difference. The 27 Kawi would bog a little bit going up a hill or slight grade. BUT it still had more power to keep pushing forward where as the 27 kohler would practically come to a stop.

Now i knew we were finally getting some where. My dealer is trying to locate me a Scag Wild Cat 26hp liquid cooled Kawi with a bagging system. I want to demo this mower because its a pump machine unlike the Toro or Exmark. Maybe it will perform better for my needs?

One way or another we are returning this Exmark. The new purchase will either be a Toro G3 with the 27hp Kawi or a Scag Wild Cat with the 26HP Kawi. The Kohler just doesn't cut it for our needs..... To be honest im not sure how it fits the needs of anybody who owns that same mower with the ultra vac.

ktoom
05-15-2011, 05:20 PM
I compared the motor spec's of the 26hp liquid cooled kawi(FD 731V)vs the 27hp kawi(FX 751V) and it seems that the motor's aren't very close in torque, cc's or cubic inch. The 26 kawi is more equal to the 24hp kawi(FX 691V).

I still say that the new transmission, in the Exmark/Toro zero turns, is robbing a little more hp than the old pump style setup. Im hoping that the Scag Wild Cat will prove that to me when i demo it.

nobagger
05-15-2011, 06:19 PM
Always, always, always get the largest engine available.

DIDO! One Gravely rider we have has a bagging system on it and it also has a 23 hp kawi. and from day one I thought it was very under powered even after the spring growth it struggles up hills. We got such a good deal we couldn't pass it up. We are seriously considering trying out a diesel next season.

l&slawncare1990
05-15-2011, 08:36 PM
I demoed the exmark and left the dealership right awy way way underpowered and was not a good machine. i bought my 2011 scag wild cat with vac and its not what I was expecting. Vac clogges on thin grass around the impeller. I am no expert but I think thats bull. When I have to constantly shut off a brand new machien cause its getting clogged on my accounts. a little nuts. I love scag but I am not sure if have a lemon or just the wild cat is not that great. having my crappy dealer take a look

ktoom
05-16-2011, 05:36 AM
Besides the vac problem, how was the power of the machine when using the vac? Did the mower have enough power unlike the Exmark? My issue is that 90 percent of my customers want their lawns bagged. Just by looking at the Scag vac system, being that its vertical, i had my doubts as to if it perform's as good as the Exmark/Toro setup.

l&slawncare1990
05-16-2011, 10:17 AM
The scag is different like you said. I had high hopes but I also have to bag every single lawn and to have to take the vac off for a few lawns is not worth it that vac is very very heavy I dont see one person taking it off. It is better then the exmark it bogs on a hill and in wet grass but Iguess in dry grass its ok. the exmark wanted to almost shut off biggest POS. I would not buy a exmark. Scag does have a bullet proof reputation. I wish I didnt have a sour toung about mine I hope my issues can be resolved cause I do like the machine but for the cost of these machines you have to completely love the thing haha. The vac system is a huge part of the machine though. It cloggs very often. I thought the whole reason for a vac was so that it would suck everything up and not clogg. My old cub cadet did the same thing and that was a 3k machine. Just very disappointed in this purchase. Also debris fly out of the front of the machine so there is never a perfect clean line.

MJB
05-16-2011, 10:24 AM
The scag is different like you said. I had high hopes but I also have to bag every single lawn and to have to take the vac off for a few lawns is not worth it that vac is very very heavy I dont see one person taking it off. It is better then the exmark it bogs on a hill and in wet grass but Iguess in dry grass its ok. the exmark wanted to almost shut off biggest POS. I would not buy a exmark. Scag does have a bullet proof reputation. I wish I didnt have a sour toung about mine I hope my issues can be resolved cause I do like the machine but for the cost of these machines you have to completely love the thing haha. The vac system is a huge part of the machine though. It cloggs very often. I thought the whole reason for a vac was so that it would suck everything up and not clogg. My old cub cadet did the same thing and that was a 3k machine. Just very disappointed in this purchase. Also debris fly out of the front of the machine so there is never a perfect clean line.

Take it back and tell them to give you your money back, or a different bagger.

l&slawncare1990
05-16-2011, 10:29 AM
I am going ti ask them to fix the issues if not take it back I should not be dealing with this crap.

cuttinscott
05-28-2011, 09:38 PM
The Exmarks I sell I strongly Recommend the Kawi in lew of the kohler!!! This week I sold a 52" LZZ/LZX 24hp Kaw with the Ultra Vac to one of my customers That was buying Ferris 2000's from me and He is REALLY Happy with my recommendation of The LZX over the ferris's I sold him in the past. In all reality engine manufactures do not use the same dyno kohler has always grossly exaggerated their horsepower specs and Kawasaki understates theirs. Kawi rates on a Net Continuous Scale in lew of kohlers net intermediate scale. Ktoom Like I recommended to you before try the LZX2452 I know You will like it and If You really need more power simple carb. work and governor reset will increase your hp.

I really wish I had More Kawasaki Options for the Lazers like another member here stated kohler makes faucets and toilets!! Also I agree the difference between the 23 and 27 kohler is not noticeable..


Scott

SLMGT
05-28-2011, 11:31 PM
Always, always, always get the largest engine available.


I couldn't agree more.

puppypaws
05-29-2011, 08:54 AM
The Exmarks I sell I strongly Recommend the Kawi in lew of the kohler!!! This week I sold a 52" LZZ/LZX 24hp Kaw with the Ultra Vac to one of my customers That was buying Ferris 2000's from me and He is REALLY Happy with my recommendation of The LZX over the ferris's I sold him in the past. In all reality engine manufactures do not use the same dyno kohler has always grossly exaggerated their horsepower specs and Kawasaki understates theirs. Kawi rates on a Net Continuous Scale in lew of kohlers net intermediate scale. Ktoom Like I recommended to you before try the LZX2452 I know You will like it and If You really need more power simple carb. work and governor reset will increase your hp.

I really wish I had More Kawasaki Options for the Lazers like another member here stated kohler makes faucets and toilets!! Also I agree the difference between the 23 and 27 kohler is not noticeable.

The mower with the 25 Kawasaki only had 125 hrs. when we exchanged because of a paint issue. I am saying this so you realize it was not an older mower that could make a difference in cutting.


Scott

This is in real life, meaning if what you say is true about Kawasaki under rating, and Kohler as you stated "grossly exaggerated their horsepower," what I personally experienced was impossible.

I was cutting with a 60" Hustler Super Z powered by a 25 hp Kawasaki engine in reasonably heavy grass. The grass I was cutting pulled the rpm's back somewhat on the 25 Kawasaki which in return slowed the blade tip speed. I was delivered a new 60" Hustler Super Z with a 27 hp Kohler engine when they first began installing the 27 on a Super Z. I drove directly out of the grass and went to where the dealer had parked his delivery vehicle. He backed the new Hustler Super Z off the trailer, we talked a couple of minutes and I was off to begin cutting with the new mower.

I went directly back to the same grass I was cutting with the 25 hp Kawasaki powered 60" Super Z, the grass that was pulling the rpm's back on the 25. I made the next pass with the new 27 hp Kohler powered 60" Super Z and the engine never changed sounds. I was not sure I believed the difference so I listened to the engine as I made the next pass, no difference, the engine did not drop one rpm which meant the blade tip speed remained at optimum performance. I also noticed by the rpm's not changing the mower was discharging the clippings in a better pattern and at a longer difference.

This is saying to me if Kohler over rates their hp and Kawasaki under rates their hp, the difference I experienced should not have been that noticeable.

The mower with the Kawasaki only had 125 hrs. when we made the exchange due to a paint issue. I am saying this so you realize it was not an older mower that may have caused the difference.

cpllawncare
05-29-2011, 09:45 AM
Mowers, cars, trucks, I always get the most HP I can possibly afford, it sucks being underpowered.

puppypaws
05-29-2011, 05:43 PM
Mowers, cars, trucks, I always get the most HP I can possibly afford, it sucks being underpowered.

When in doubt, always go stout!!!

cpllawncare
05-29-2011, 06:02 PM
Mowers, cars, trucks, I always get the most HP I can possibly afford, it sucks being underpowered.

Guess I didn't heed my own advice when I bought my Ranger, but at the time it was just a back and forth truck for work more about saving gas than HP, sitting right beside it was a BMW 335, with more than enough HP.The next truck WON'T be underpowered, like I said it sucks being underpowered and I am most definitly underpowered at the moment.

yardguy28
05-29-2011, 07:04 PM
Always, always, always get the largest engine available.

Always, always, always get the largest engine available.


I couldn't agree more.

Mowers, cars, trucks, I always get the most HP I can possibly afford, it sucks being underpowered.

guess i disagree with the statement because of what i put in red.

if you can afford it, yes get the largest engine available. but not everyone can throw there money around like tennis balls and have to get what they actually need, which might not be the largest.

when i went to purchase my last mower 52" grandstand. i had 2 options and went with the smaller engine because the dealer asked me if i was having problems with the engine on the mower the grandstand was replacing. i said no, he said i'd be fine with the smaller of the 2 engines then and he's been right. haven't had a bit of trouble.

so since we are talking about the lazer z advantage series let me ask you guys a question.

my grandstand is in for repairs and my loaner happens to be a 52" lazer z advantage mower. i'm really liking sitting down. i told the dealer he is spoiling me. he asked if i wanted to trade. i asked if he's talking even. his reply was $100 a month 0 interest for 36 months.

my grandstand is an 09 with close to 400 hours on it and has the stripping kit. the lazer z is i think a 10 and it doesn't even have 10 hours on it and no stripping kit.

is my grandstand plus his $100 a month 0 interest for 36 months a good deal.

there is nothing wrong with my grandstand and i really like it. the only benefit the lazer z is offering is me sitting my fat @ss instead of standing. so i did turn the offer down. but am curious if i should be jumping at it instead.

i have no idea what sit down ztr's cost these days. i went from an exmark tthp with stand on to the 52" grandstand. so i've never really looked at or considered a sit down ztr.

Poontamer
05-29-2011, 09:14 PM
Why buy more when you say the stander gets the job done.Overhead sucks,but if your not happy than go for it just make sure your accounts will be no problem for the lazer z
Posted via Mobile Device

Poontamer
05-29-2011, 09:16 PM
And a Ztr is alot of money its like buying a car expect $9,000-$12,000 for a ztr name brand
Posted via Mobile Device

yardguy28
05-29-2011, 09:58 PM
And a Ztr is alot of money its like buying a car expect $9,000-$12,000 for a ztr name brand
Posted via Mobile Device

i wouldn't be buying more. i'd be trading in something i already own plus shelling out a little bit of cash.

my questions was if it's a good deal or not. like a deal that shouldn't be passed up.

i know a ztr is a lot of money. i wouldn't say it's like buying a car because it's not. i think buying a car is a much bigger decision in my opinion.

i already own the grandstand. it's a ztr. cost me a little over $7k after taxes. but i have no idea what the cost of this lazer z would be if i out right bought it. thats why i wanna know if this offer was a good deal. or are they not giving me a good deal on my grandstand.

seems to me i wouldn't be getting a great deal on the grandstand. $3600 in cash plus the grandstand which i would say they are giving me another $3600-$4000. if the lazer z's sticker price was say $7000-$8000.

yardguy28
05-29-2011, 10:06 PM
And a Ztr is alot of money its like buying a car expect $9,000-$12,000 for a ztr name brand
Posted via Mobile Device

i wouldn't be buying more. i'd be trading in something i already own plus shelling out a little bit of cash.

my questions was if it's a good deal or not. like a deal that shouldn't be passed up.

i know a ztr is a lot of money. i wouldn't say it's like buying a car because it's not. i think buying a car is a much bigger decision in my opinion.

i already own the grandstand. it's a ztr. cost me a little over $7k after taxes. but i have no idea what the cost of this lazer z would be if i out right bought it. thats why i wanna know if this offer was a good deal. or are they not giving me a good deal on my grandstand.

seems to me i wouldn't be getting a great deal on the grandstand. $3600 in cash plus the grandstand which i would say they are giving me another $3600-$4000. if the lazer z's sticker price was say $7000-$8000.

ktoom
05-30-2011, 09:00 AM
Always, always, always get the largest engine available.


I couldn't agree more.

Mowers, cars, trucks, I always get the most HP I can possibly afford, it sucks being underpowered.

When in doubt, always go stout!!!


I feel the same way as you guys do, BUT I did purchase the BIGGEST motor available for a Exmark 52" zero turn. If you search most manufacturer's, the highest they go on a 52" zero turn rider is 27hp..... there might be some other wacky options out there like a IS2500Z or a Turf Tiger 52', but the motors on them are a 24hp diesel($14500 in my area) and a 27hp Kohler...... Which is the same motor im using now lol. I know, as far as the motor's, Gravely, Bad Boy, Hustler and Bob Cat have other options for a 52". Too bad none of the dealers are close to me.

The other thing is, what if your accounts are not big enough for a 60" mower???? Or that the terrain is better suited for a 52" or 48". Luckily all my account are big enough that i can use a 60'' mower. I think these manufacturer's need to offer a bigger motor on a 52" that will handle the vac system without being under powered..... like a 30HP Briggs or what ever?? The few times i met with the Exmark rep demoing my mower, he seen first hand that its not enough power. He knew it and i knew it..... and all he could say to me is "this is all i can offer you in a 52''.

It always comes down to money too. I went with what i knew worked as far as motor size, but i still think the new pump system is zapping some horse power and the emission/noise issues are killing HP. My 23 kawi Lazer Z HP still runs better with the collection unit than that 23 Kohler ever will hahaha. I decided to go with the 61" Turf Tiger big block 35, because I know what the motor is capable of and its the old pump style system. If all goes as planned, i should be picking it up this week.

puppypaws
05-30-2011, 12:00 PM
I feel the same way as you guys do, BUT I did purchase the BIGGEST motor available for a Exmark 52" zero turn. If you search most manufacturer's, the highest they go on a 52" zero turn rider is 27hp..... there might be some other wacky options out there like a IS2500Z or a Turf Tiger 52', but the motors on them are a 24hp diesel($14500 in my area) and a 27hp Kohler...... Which is the same motor im using now lol. I know, as far as the motor's, Gravely, Bad Boy, Hustler and Bob Cat have other options for a 52". Too bad none of the dealers are close to me.

The other thing is, what if your accounts are not big enough for a 60" mower???? Or that the terrain is better suited for a 52" or 48". Luckily all my account are big enough that i can use a 60'' mower. I think these manufacturer's need to offer a bigger motor on a 52" that will handle the vac system without being under powered..... like a 30HP Briggs or what ever?? The few times i met with the Exmark rep demoing my mower, he seen first hand that its not enough power. He knew it and i knew it..... and all he could say to me is "this is all i can offer you in a 52''.

It always comes down to money too. I went with what i knew worked as far as motor size, but i still think the new pump system is zapping some horse power and the emission/noise issues are killing HP. My 23 kawi Lazer Z HP still runs better with the collection unit than that 23 Kohler ever will hahaha. I decided to go with the 61" Turf Tiger big block 35, because I know what the motor is capable of and its the old pump style system. If all goes as planned, i should be picking it up this week.

You will never be sorry you made this decision. The 35 Vanguard has more power than a large percentage of cutters have ever experienced, and if they did, I can promise they would own one.

Mark Oomkes
06-01-2011, 06:50 AM
And a Ztr is alot of money its like buying a car expect $9,000-$12,000 for a ztr name brand
Posted via Mobile Device

Where do you buy a new car for $9-12K?

yardguy28
06-01-2011, 08:05 PM
in case anyone was wondering i made a counter offer to the dealer and they declined my counter offer. which is fine. i am getting spoiled by this sit down ztr and will miss it once my grandstand is repaired, but since the sit down ztr doesn't offer that many benefits to me vs. my grandstand it's not worth the deal they wanted to make with me.

ktoom
06-02-2011, 06:03 AM
Here she is!!!!! I love it so far!!!!

cpllawncare
06-02-2011, 07:55 AM
Where do you buy a new car for $9-12K?

He said a car not a new car.

puppypaws
06-02-2011, 04:20 PM
Here she is!!!!! I love it so far!!!!


Mighty fine looking machine!

THG
06-02-2011, 04:45 PM
ktoom,
Is this the Tiger with the Vanguard Engine? I would think you should have all the power you need now?

ktoom
06-03-2011, 06:44 AM
So far, the 35HP Vanguard rocks. I love the triple bagger. The house in my pic, i would empty the bags 6 to 7 times. I only had to do it twice with the new mower which saved me time there. I just gotta get use to mowing with a 60" mower again lol and then i should be able to fly. I couldn't believe how it put down a decent stripe??? Im gonna adjust the deck a little bit and see how the stripes look then. Im not really a big fan of the striping kit that Scag offers.

cpllawncare
06-03-2011, 07:41 AM
Just curious, Why even bother with bagging? go with a mulch kit and save even more time? Sweet ride.

ktoom
06-03-2011, 09:09 PM
Ive thought about it, but ive never ran mulch kit on any of my mowers. i Would be afraid that it would clump on thicker lawns.

cpllawncare
06-03-2011, 09:28 PM
Ive thought about it, but ive never ran mulch kit on any of my mowers. i Would be afraid that it would clump on thicker lawns.

If you are mowing on thicker lawns just take the blocker plate off to relieve any clumping issue's also since going to straight high lift blades it mulches even better because of the vacuuming effect, it just takes some experimenting to find what works best but once you find it, it's a great way to go imop. I just hate any kind of bagging.

yardguy28
06-03-2011, 09:40 PM
Just curious, Why even bother with bagging? go with a mulch kit and save even more time? Sweet ride.

i don't mess with mulching kits except on my 36" walkbehind. it has never mulched badly.

but when i tried it on a 52" mower i had once i had bad luck all the way around so i got rid of it and you will never get me to purchase another mulch kit for a large mower again.

i discharge when i can and bag when i need to.

BrunoT
06-04-2011, 06:15 PM
I'm sure it cut fine for him when he was at the expo and took 1/4" of dry grass off the flat field he mowed for 2 minutes.

Mower salesmen probably haven't mowed enough grass personally to know what "enough power" is. The most experience I've ever found is that they are allowed to take a mower home to mow their own home lawns. Hardly expert advice.

But, you should still check the install of the GHS and the engine output to make sure you don't have a technical issue.

puppypaws
06-04-2011, 11:55 PM
I'm sure it cut fine for him when he was at the expo and took 1/4" of dry grass off the flat field he mowed for 2 minutes.

Mower salesmen probably haven't mowed enough grass personally to know what "enough power" is. The most experience I've ever found is that they are allowed to take a mower home to mow their own home lawns. Hardly expert advice.

But, you should still check the install of the GHS and the engine output to make sure you don't have a technical issue.

You are correct in most all cases with this statement. I really never heard of people speaking about having too much power, but I've certainly heard them speaking of problems from lack of power.

7625
06-05-2011, 02:21 AM
I wouldn't run the mower another minute. Carry it back and get one with a larger engine and for goodness sakes get a kawi. The longer you keep it the more apt the dealer will be to change his mind and then it is too late. Do it now.

7625
06-05-2011, 02:35 AM
I agree that all engines need a break in period but, and I said but, if your mower doesn't perform as it should from the start (engine) then waiting for a break-in-period isn't going to make it better. I used to farm for almost 20 years and if I spent 150,000 on a tractor that was suppose to pull 220 hp and when I hooked up to something when I got it to the field and it wouldn't pull it and the dealer told me I had to wait for it to break in the engine(which never happened) I would say bull. My JD ZTR ran just as good the first day as now, the manual didn't say to baby it, and when you buy a car they don't tell you to wait for two weeks until you get your best power. Tell him you want the bigger engine now.