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A Cut Above Lawn Care
06-16-2010, 10:49 AM
Well, I was highly interested in the Briggs Vanguard 35HP Scag Turf Tiger. The dealer did not have any in stock. I have cut with the velocity deck so I just had to figure out what motor option I wanted.

Long story short, the demo mower was a Kaw 27HP LC with 18 hours. It looks brand new. I asked if he would be willing to sell the demo, so he called his rep. The Kaw 27HP LC TT is $10,999 new at this dealer. I opted for the suspension seat ($450) and got out the door for $10,650 including tax. So I roughly got $1,600 off the price of a new one for 18 hours. Will the 27 be enough to push pumps and motors?

I will have pics to come...

taylo708
06-16-2010, 11:10 AM
I am interested to see what people say too, I just bought a 2009 left over from last year turf tiger with a 31hp efi kohler and I think it is a dog. I took it to the dealer and they said it is fine and has plenty of power. So im not sure if it is just that my motor is messed up or that is how they run. I do know that I am losing coolant though I have filled the overflow once already and is about half way down again and have only but about 45 hours on it.

TLS
06-16-2010, 11:10 AM
It's no comparison to the 35 briggs.

Not sure if SCAG uses the same pumps/motors on the 27 as they do the 35. (not sure where the cutoff is)

The 27 will be quieter!

TheOctagon
06-16-2010, 11:56 AM
I just bought a 29 dfi 61" TT and I agree it is slightly underpowered but if you're cutting what you should be cutting it has plenty. Pumps on the TT sure do draw a lot but man is it smooth and responsive. I dont know if the same pumps are on the 27 or not???? It should be fine you just may need to slow down a bit. I see on Kawasaki's website they have a new 31 DFI and i am hoping Scag upgrades to it it goes from 791 to 851 cc's and has 10 more ft. lbs of torque. I think that would be a major upgrade. Let us know how she works i know i ran a Badboy AOS 60" with that 27 kawi and in anything of normal growth to slightly overgrown it was fine. I only had one yard it was tough to mow and its because it grows roughly 6" every 4 days and is THICK!

keithslawnc
06-16-2010, 04:14 PM
I just bought a 61" TT w/ a 35 briggs liquid cooled. It has the same torqe rating as the cat diesel for a lot less money. The 35 is a beast but seems to be a little thirsty. I am tracking hour per gallon and will post what I find. The pumps are all 16cc on the turf tigers but they upgrade the wheel motor at or above 29hp. So the 27hp will have the smaller wheel motor. The first zero turn I bought back in 2001 was a TT w/ 27 L/C Kaw and it was a little under powered. I paid a few hundred more for the 35 briggs liquid cooled then you paid for the 27hp.

A Cut Above Lawn Care
06-17-2010, 10:35 AM
Here are several pics, he had to order the suspension seat so I have not received it yet. He's delivering 60 miles, sweet...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4709275412_3057c7aa79_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4709275348_652053fa4e_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1291/4709275296_b170016cdc_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4027/4708632741_ccbab021c0_b.jpg

Sorry, iphone camera is subpar...

Darryl G
06-17-2010, 10:48 AM
Wow, nice machine there!

puppypaws
06-17-2010, 11:41 AM
Well, I was highly interested in the Briggs Vanguard 35HP Scag Turf Tiger. The dealer did not have any in stock. I have cut with the velocity deck so I just had to figure out what motor option I wanted.

Long story short, the demo mower was a Kaw 27HP LC with 18 hours. It looks brand new. I asked if he would be willing to sell the demo, so he called his rep. The Kaw 27HP LC TT is $10,999 new at this dealer. I opted for the suspension seat ($450) and got out the door for $10,650 including tax. So I roughly got $1,600 off the price of a new one for 18 hours. Will the 27 be enough to push pumps and motors?

I will have pics to come...

The 27 will be adequate, unless you are in continuous heavy cutting day in and day out, but there is no comparison between a 27 Kawi and 35 Vanguard power wise. The 35 will cut through areas that will pull the rpm's down on a 27 but never cause the governor to activate on the 35. The 35 Vanguard is much more engine than a 27 Kawasaki when it comes to raw power.

I am interested to see what people say too, I just bought a 2009 left over from last year turf tiger with a 31hp efi kohler and I think it is a dog. I took it to the dealer and they said it is fine and has plenty of power. So im not sure if it is just that my motor is messed up or that is how they run. I do know that I am losing coolant though I have filled the overflow once already and is about half way down again and have only but about 45 hours on it.

You should have good power with the 31 Aegis, not the power of a 35 Vanguard, but still good power. Your engine should not be losing coolant, check the rpm's and run a compression test so that you know the exact numbers. Your coolant is going somewhere, and if you are not seeing a leak it is going through the engine.

bahamamills
06-17-2010, 01:59 PM
What puppypawls said, have the 27hp Kohler on the TT and some properties my son cut are 5 acres at a time with hills and its a cutting machine. Would have should have got the suspension seat though.

A Cut Above Lawn Care
06-17-2010, 02:46 PM
Briggs Vanguard 35Hp Liquid Cooled...

Why doesn't Scag offer this option anymore? I would have love to have had the LC version of the Vanguard. That would have been the ultimate mower. I want a mower that will last (Liquid Cooled). I wanted LC initially, but there were out my range. I came upon this demo and that is where I sit today... I didn't even know they ever offered the Vanguard 35 in a LC version. I wonder how much more the LC version would have been if it were an option.

My brother-in-law has a Wildcat 26HP Kaw LC, and it didn't bog any in the week I mowed with it...only the TT will have bigger pumps and wheel motors, heavier frame, etc...

puppypaws
06-17-2010, 02:52 PM
Briggs Vanguard 35Hp Liquid Cooled...

Why doesn't Scag offer this option anymore? I would have love to have had the LC version of the Vanguard. That would have been the ultimate mower. I want a mower that will last (Liquid Cooled). I wanted LC initially, but there were out my range. I came upon this demo and that is where I sit today... I didn't even know they ever offered the Vanguard 35 in a LC version. I wonder how much more the LC version would have been if it were an option.

I can't give you a figure but will say the 35 L/C version of a Vanguard engine versus A/C will be considerably less money difference than with Kohler or Kawasaki.

keithslawnc
06-17-2010, 02:58 PM
Briggs Vanguard 35Hp Liquid Cooled...

Why doesn't Scag offer this option anymore? I would have love to have had the LC version of the Vanguard. That would have been the ultimate mower. I want a mower that will last (Liquid Cooled). I wanted LC initially, but there were out my range. I came upon this demo and that is where I sit today... I didn't even know they ever offered the Vanguard 35 in a LC version. I wonder how much more the LC version would have been if it were an option.

My brother-in-law has a Wildcat 26HP Kaw LC, and it didn't bog any in the week I mowed with it...only the TT will have bigger pumps and wheel motors, heavier frame, etc...
I didn't know either. I order the 35 air cooled that they were running a sale on. I signed the paper work on Saturday and my dealer was going to there distributer on Monday to pick it up. He called me Monday and said that they were out of the aircooled for a month or two. He said that they could get me into the 35 liquidcooled for $250.00 sense they had ran out. I said I didn't know that they had a 35 liquid because they are not listed as a opition on the Scag website. He said that it was a new opition that they are about to statrt running a special on. I jumped on it for few hundred more dollars. All though I would not recommend the mower for tall people. The motor is so long that they have to mount the seat more foward on the machine. The 35 L/C is 5 inches longer then my 29hp L/C. It is a great mower just a little cramped.

puppypaws
06-17-2010, 03:04 PM
I didn't know either. I order the 35 air cooled that they were running a sale on. I signed the paper work on Saturday and my dealer was going to there distributer on Monday to pick it up. He called me Monday and said that they were out of the aircooled for a month or two. He said that they could get me into the 35 liquidcooled for $250.00 sense they had ran out. I said I didn't know that they had a 35 liquid because they are not listed as a opition on the Scag website. He said that it was a new opition that they are about to statrt running a special on. I jumped on it for few hundred more dollars. All though I would not recommend the mower for tall people. The motor is so long that they have to mount the seat more foward on the machine. The 35 L/C is 5 inches longer then my 29hp L/C. It is a great mower just a little cramped.

I know they helped you somewhat because of the problem that came up, but that is one heck of a deal, feel blessed.

puppypaws
06-17-2010, 03:19 PM
I know they helped you somewhat because of the problem that came up, but that is one heck of a deal, feel blessed.

The 35 L/C Vanguard is no longer offered in 2010, which means the dealer found a leftover 2009 and gave you what appears to be a very good deal.

There will be no difference in the 2009 TT and 2010 other than you got the L/C Vanguard engine.

MrRob
06-17-2010, 03:26 PM
stay with the 27 or 29. that big engine sucks down the gas!

LandscapemanFL
06-17-2010, 05:25 PM
I have noticed over the years that the scag seems to be underpowered. But it has never really been a issue.

tacoma200
06-18-2010, 01:10 AM
I love my 35 Briggs. I have checked the fuel usage over several tanks to make sure my numbers were accurate last year. The overall average under normal conditions was about 1.4 gph. I am sure it would use a bit more in heavy grass. Both the 31 and 35 hp engines (air cooled Briggs) were nearly identical. I was always a big Kawasaki fan but these engines are hard to beat. I am having much better luck with mine than my friends with the big Kawasaki's. I don't add any oil between changes and they have been rock solid so far. I would definitely go with the big Briggs again. I hope Scag continues to offer them. I have gotten better fuel numbers with a 27 Kohler but the Briggs does so much more work for the same amount of fuel.

puppypaws
06-18-2010, 07:15 AM
stay with the 27 or 29. that big engine sucks down the gas!

According to this gentleman, (one with a great deal of experience), it does not sound to me like, "that big engine sucks down the gas."

I love my 35 Briggs. I have checked the fuel usage over several tanks to make sure my numbers were accurate last year. The overall average under normal conditions was about 1.4 gph. I am sure it would use a bit more in heavy grass. Both the 31 and 35 hp engines (air cooled Briggs) were nearly identical. I was always a big Kawasaki fan but these engines are hard to beat. I am having much better luck with mine than my friends with the big Kawasaki's. I don't add any oil between changes and they have been rock solid so far. I would definitely go with the big Briggs again. I hope Scag continues to offer them. I have gotten better fuel numbers with a 27 Kohler but the Briggs does so much more work for the same amount of fuel.

MrRob
06-18-2010, 07:44 AM
According to this gentleman, (one with a great deal of experience), it does not sound to me like, "that big engine sucks down the gas."


sorry, let me back up my statements with some facts. Here from the scag website it shows the fuel injection engines get a best of 1.6 gph. I can only assume that a larger displacement 35 hp engine would get much worse than these smaller engines engines.

http://www.scag.com/fuelconsumption.html

SNAPPER MAN
06-18-2010, 08:38 AM
The 27hp Kawasaki will have plenty of power. I have a 61" turf tiger with the 27hp kohler and it is yet to dissapoint. I have about 500 hours on it now and it is great. You don't need a 35hp engine for just regular mowing in my opinion.
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puppypaws
06-18-2010, 10:10 AM
sorry, let me back up my statements with some facts. Here from the scag website it shows the fuel injection engines get a best of 1.6 gph. I can only assume that a larger displacement 35 hp engine would get much worse than these smaller engines engines.

http://www.scag.com/fuelconsumption.html

Scag has no idea of how much fuel the engines installed on their mowers use, so what you believe to be fact because Scag put the information into their literature is actually false in a real cutting scenario. They are only able to quote the information supplied by engine manufactures. The numbers for fuel consumption that engine manufacturers provide are inaccurate compared to actual field test. The engineers working for the engine manufacturers will tell you this; the same as they have told me many times. The fuel numbers they provide comes from a bench test under full load for 100% of the test time.

The actual fuel numbers a person such as "Tacoma" posted are true field numbers, a mower does not stay in a maximum pull under full load but probably 10% of the time in a days cutting. This is not to say there are not times you can put a mower into a heavy, damp grass situation and increase the fuel usage, but day in and day out the big block engines work much less than a smaller block engine. Tacoma will verify (which I believe he has posted before) that the 27 hp Kohler engine he checked would burn as much, or close to as much fuel as the 35 big block Vanguard. The difference being, where a 27 hp engine in relatively heavy cutting may call on the governor quite often, the big block 35 will never activate the governor, and cut through the same grass with ease.

I can say for fact and without doubt, Kohler claims the 28 efi engine I run will use in the neighborhood of 1.3 gph, I checked mine very precisely and in medium cutting it was at .93 gph. I questioned Kohler about this difference and was given the explanation of how they arrive at fuel consumption numbers on their engines. They also totally agreed that actual mowing fuel consumption numbers would be much lower. I will be more than happy to supply you with the phone number of any mower manufacturer if you would care to verify what I am saying. I can even provide you with first name personnel if you need to satisfy your curiosity.

TLS
06-19-2010, 08:32 AM
The Turf Tiger is a great design. This is proven, because it's how many years old now (design), and it's still a great mower.

My Only gripe about the TT is the 10gal fuel tank. With todays engines, thats not even a days worth of gas. The last thing I feel like doing towards the end of a LONG hot day is to stop and add gas.

tarp5350
06-24-2010, 06:57 PM
I thought all turf tigers came with the suspension seat as standard equipment. mine came this way.

puppypaws
06-24-2010, 07:41 PM
I thought all turf tigers came with the suspension seat as standard equipment. mine came this way.

This came from Scag's website and the suspension seat falls under the category of accessory.

Scag Turf Tiger Accessories

Suspension Seat
This torsion spring suspension seat provides the ultimate in operator comfort. The side bolsters and lumbar region of the seat provide the occupant with additional support when riding over uneven terrain. A full 60mm of travel is available in the suspension system. **Standard on 2005 and newer Turf Tiger models with diesel or 29hp and larger gas engines; optional on 27hp models and 2004 and previous models

tarp5350
06-25-2010, 07:55 AM
I have the 29 hp dfi so i guess that mine was standard equipment.

puppypaws
06-25-2010, 01:51 PM
I have the 29 hp dfi so i guess that mine was standard equipment.

Did you special order the mower or buy it from dealer inventory?

puppypaws
06-25-2010, 02:04 PM
Did you special order the mower or buy it from dealer inventory?

You are correct, all Scag TT mowers that are diesel powered or have gas engines of 29 hp or greater comes with a suspension seat as standard equipment, just found this information in their literature.

tarp5350
06-26-2010, 10:45 AM
I bought it new from the dealer inventory in 2007.