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fastr1
06-17-2010, 11:23 PM
I am purchasing a new FS90 4 mix and I use and sell Amsoil to all my friends however is the 4 mix engine safe to run at 100 to 1 like conventional 2 strokes that I run it in? I know the Amsoil is great however I have read posts that people are running these at 50-80 to 1.

Since if something happens it would be a rough warranty claim i'm sure.

Thanks,:usflag:

IOWA GUY
06-17-2010, 11:27 PM
I am purchasing a new FS90 4 mix and I use and sell Amsoil to all my friends however is the 4 mix engine safe to run at 100 to 1 like conventional 2 strokes that I run it in? I know the Amsoil is great however I have read posts that people are running these at 50-80 to 1.

Since if something happens it would be a rough warranty claim i'm sure.

Thanks,:usflag:
It's much better to run to much oil than not enough.
If you run to much oil it will "foul" a plug.
Not enough oil and you may seize a piston and the games over.

Alan0354
06-17-2010, 11:41 PM
Lots of people use 75:1 with good result. I use 60:1 myself.

IOWA GUY
06-18-2010, 12:06 AM
Lots of people use 75:1 with good result. I use 60:1 myself.
Alan has anyone ever told you that you look a lot like Sarah Palin.:laugh:
Yes,your HOTT!!!:laugh:

Alan0354
06-18-2010, 12:42 AM
Alan has anyone ever told you that you look a lot like Sarah Palin.:laugh:
Yes,your HOTT!!!:laugh:

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

Roger
06-18-2010, 07:39 AM
I use Amsoil, 75:1, in my FS90R. When it was new, I ran through a few tanks of fuel at 50:1, then moved to 75:1. Did using a richer mixture while the engine was new help with longevity? I don't know.

I use the same mix for my Stihl BG85 blower, HS80 hedge clipper, and FC85 edger - all three are 2 cycle.

WH401
06-18-2010, 08:47 AM
I have used Saber at 80:1 w/ 89 gas since my 90 was new and it runs like a champ. The biggest reason most LCO's run 80:1 instead of 100:1 is because most LCO's use a lot of two-stroke mix in the course of a week. The simplest mixing method is dumping an 8 oz. bottle into a 5 gal. can of gas. That and while 80:1 is still a much lower concentration of oil, it still gives you a slight gap between the recommended 100:1.

MikeKle
06-18-2010, 10:19 AM
I was all excited about switching to Amsoil, before I found out about the shipping cost! I was going to buy a couple quarts of saber 2 stroke oil, and the shipping was near $15.! Screw that,. I will just keep using the echo power blend. Do you all have another way of getting your amsoil other than shipping?

Roger
06-18-2010, 09:27 PM
MikeKle, I can get Amsoil products from the local NAPA store. I don't know how universal this practice is found. Might be worth a try.

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 03:44 AM
Result of running a gallon of Amsoil at 100:1 in an MS441 chainsaw. The saw was tuned correctly. The cylinder had aluminum transfer, and both the piston and cylinder were dry with no oil film. The saw was still running fine before tare down. however as you can see failure was imminent, If you look closely, the piston crown also has erosion do to over heating. Sure you can run Amsoil at 100:1 but premature engine failure will be the result every time, I've seen similar results with Opti 2. Amsoil is in fact a good group IV PAO oil but only when ran at more reasonable mix ratio like 50:1. It's also not a top of the line group V Ester based oil.

Alan0354
06-23-2010, 03:55 AM
Result of running a gallon of Amsoil at 100:1 in an MS441 chainsaw. The saw was tuned correctly. The cylinder had aluminum transfer, and both the piston and cylinder were dry with no oil film. The saw was still running fine before tare down. however as you can see failure was imminent, If you look closely, the piston crown also has erosion do to over heating. Sure you can run Amsoil at 100:1 but premature engine failure will be the result every time, I've seen similar results with Opti 2. Amsoil is in fact a good group IV PAO oil but only when ran at more reasonable mix ratio like 50:1. It's also not a top of the line group V Ester based oil.

Could it be saw is particularly hard on the engine. Sounds like most of the people are happy with 80:1!!!

Yes I do use 60:1 just in case!!!:laugh:

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 04:05 AM
Now here is a picture of a similar saw that was ran at 32:1 with a good ester synthetic 2 cycle oil. As you can see the piston skirt looks almost new and is coated with a nice film of oil. The main benefit of ester oils is not only the fact they are incredibly shear stable, but also the fact that ester oils are highly polarized, they are attracted to metal. This for the most part prevents dry startup.

Alan0354
06-23-2010, 04:10 AM
What oil is ester base?

I forgot to mention, at 60:1, I check a few of my engines, the piston looked like all have a good oil film, there were a very thin film of oil inside the muffler. It was not dripping but if I use a Q-tip to swap the inside of the muffler, I can see a little wet. I think 60:1 is plenty if not a little too much already.

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 04:17 AM
Could it be saw is particularly hard on the engine. Sounds like most of the people are happy with 80:1!!!

Yes I do use 60:1 just in case!!!:laugh:

Most of the 100:1 80:1 oils have copious amounts of anti seize compounds to compensate for lack of lubrication. This prevents short term engine seizure, but does not prevent excessive engine ware. You need a balance of both oil additives and oil film strength.

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 04:32 AM
What oil is ester base?

I forgot to mention, at 60:1, I check a few of my engines, the piston looked like all have a good oil film, there were a very thin film of oil inside the muffler. It was not dripping but if I use a Q-tip to swap the inside of the muffler, I can see a little wet. I think 60:1 is plenty if not a little too much already.

Stihl's HP ultra is a good ester based oil. Echo and Husky's oils are both top of the line semi synthetic oils. I personally run oil made for 2 cycle motorcycles, it's the best of the best.

Oil in the exhaust can usually means nothing more than you're engines tuned way too rich. This will cause a lack of power, and excessive carbon buildup.

Alan0354
06-23-2010, 04:41 AM
Stihl's HP ultra is a good ester based oil. Echo and Husky's oils are both top of the line semi synthetic oils. I personally run oil made for 2 cycle motorcycles, it's the best of the best.

Oil in the exhaust can usually means nothing more than you're engines tuned way too rich. This will cause a lack of power, and excessive carbon buildup.

Thanks

So you consider Ultra is better than Amsoil?

Richard Martin
06-23-2010, 04:52 AM
I didn't tear this engine apart for an inspection because I didn't see the need to. This is a Stihl FC75 that had been run on Amsoil at 80:1 for almost it's whole life. It was into it's 8th season when I took these photos. I see zero evidence of overheating.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105506&d=1207569726

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105505&d=1207569684

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 05:02 AM
It is better oil, but Amsoil is very good oil. They simply loose a lot or respect with infomercial like tactics with the bogus 100:1 claim, and good luck with placing a warranty claim with them. Run Saber Professional at 50:1 and you'll be fine. I run an oil from Maxima it's called Formula K2. http://www.maximausa.com/shopping/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=14

Motul 800 2T, Silkolene pro 2sx, and Klotz R50 are all just as good.

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 05:20 AM
I didn't tear this engine apart for an inspection because I didn't see the need to. This is a Stihl FC75 that had been run on Amsoil at 80:1 for almost it's whole life. It was into it's 8th season when I took these photos. I see zero evidence of overheating.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105506&d=1207569726

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105505&d=1207569684

That does look good no doubt about it, but I suspect your engines tuned rich. This will allow the engine to run cooler and with more fuel/oil. If it was tuned properly or on the edge you're results would likely be much different.

The Stihl 4-mix engines are currently being tested at 80:1 with Stihl ultra oil, so far so good. However this is with low revving 4 cycle engines, not high revving 2 cycle engines.

One also must take into consideration most fuel now contains some alcohol. Alcohol is bad news for 2 cycle engines, and is the cause of many engine failures, + alcohol also absorbs moisture. Running 50:1 mix is the best choice hands down, saving a few pennies now is simply not worth it in the long run.

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 05:30 AM
Richard after examining your pics a little closer I actually see quite a bit of polishing on the piston skirt, with the cylinder removed you'd likely see more of the same. I'd also be interested to see what the piston crown looks like.

Andy:)

Richard Martin
06-23-2010, 05:39 AM
That does look good no doubt about it, but I suspect your engines tuned rich. This will allow the engine to run cooler and with more fuel/oil. If it was tuned properly or on the edge you're results would likely be much different.

The Stihl 4-mix engines are currently being tested at 80:1 with Stihl ultra oil, so far so good. However this is with low revving 4 cycle engines, not high revving 2 cycle engines.

One also must take into consideration most fuel now contains some alcohol. Alcohol is bad news for 2 cycle engines, and is the cause of many engine failures, + alcohol also absorbs moisture. Running 50:1 mix is the best choice hands down, saving a few pennies now is simply not worth it in the long run.

I have zero intentions, as do probably 99.99% of handheld equipment users, of ever "tuning" or leaning out my A/F for the sake of a tiny bit of power. That kinda makes that argument pointless. The engines run fine with the stock tune and have plenty of power. They also seem to run a very long time with the stock tune.

The Stihl 4 Mix engines that I have are turning about the same RPM as the Stihl 2 strokes that I have. I've checked.

I've been using Amsoil at 80:1 for almost a decade now and every engine I've ever used it in is still running today. The fuel additives have included alcohol and MTBE.

I suspect if you didn't run your chainsaws so close to the "edge" then you wouldn't have any problems either. And when you tune them like that you can take any chances of getting warranty and throw it out the window. My Stihl dealer will still warrant my equipment with Amsoil at 80:1 since he's the guy that told me to do it. He also told me I could use the Ultra at that ratio too.

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 06:05 AM
So you're saying you don't know how to tune a 2 cycle engine? :dizzy:

Most new 2 cycle engines come set too lean from the factory because of EPA regulations and need to be adjusted before they leave the shop. Most 2 cycle engines spin much faster than 4mix engines, I work on them all the time.

Knowing how to properly tune your equipment is a must and part of daily maintains. You need to understand carburetors are stupid, and they do not compensate for barometric and temperature changes. Cold air is much more dense than hot air. If the engine is tuned rich in the summer and you don't adjust it when the weather turns cold, the engine will now be running way too lean. Why is this? Simple cold air is more dense, therefore the engine will now require more fuel, plane and simple.

The chainsaw in the pic I posted is not mine BTW, I've never had any issues with "my" equipment, only customers or friends.

Andy.

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 06:31 AM
80:1 since he's the guy that told me to do it. He also told me I could use the Ultra at that ratio too.

It sounds like your dealer is a bit out of touch with Stihl's policies, he doesn't decide to honer your warrant, Stihl does, and they will not at honer your equipments warrant if you run them with 80:1 mix.

Richard Martin
06-23-2010, 06:41 AM
So you're saying you don't know how to tune a 2 cycle engine? :dizzy:

Most 2 cycle engines spin much faster than 4mix engines, I work on them all the time.

I can tune any carb on any engine. I got my first real start on a Suzuki GT-380 triple cylinder 2 stroke. If you can tune one of them you can tune anything.

It must be engines other than Stihl and Shindaiwas that turn faster. My Shindy T-230 maxes out at 9400. My Stihl FS80 maxes at 9300. My Stihl FC90 (4 Mix) maxed out the tach at 9,990. It is a wasted spark tach so it is reading the RPM correctly. I suspect it is turning around 12,000 RPM or so.

Andyshine77
06-23-2010, 06:53 AM
Most OPE engines are now rev limited, without the limiter they would spin much faster. Rev limiters can make tuning difficult, you cant tune by ear, and as soon as the limiter kicks in it confuses the tach and you get false readings. Man do I hate rev limiters.

ray0311
06-29-2010, 10:11 AM
It is better oil, but Amsoil is very good oil. They simply loose a lot or respect with infomercial like tactics with the bogus 100:1 claim, and good luck with placing a warranty claim with them. Run Saber Professional at 50:1 and you'll be fine. I run an oil from Maxima it's called Formula K2. http://www.maximausa.com/shopping/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=14

Motul 800 2T, Silkolene pro 2sx, and Klotz R50 are all just as good.

Andyshine Saber was not created to run 50:1 it was created for lean and clean burning, I was told buy a Amsoil Tech that 50:1 is a over kill and that running that rich would cause the ports to clog, I'm no expert but just saying, been running 80:1 -100:1 in all my 2 strokes even my old Yamaha banshee likes it.

All_Toro_4ME
06-29-2010, 10:47 AM
Interesting thread. So whats the conclusion? I've been running 80:1 amsoil but now this thread kinda concerns me. I've seen both sides of the argument. Without the amsoil marketing hype, what's the ideal ratio? 50:1? 80:1 seems lean but who knows. 100:1 is out of the question for me.

ray0311
06-29-2010, 11:30 AM
Interesting thread. So whats the conclusion? I've been running 80:1 amsoil but now this thread kinda concerns me. I've seen both sides of the argument. Without the amsoil marketing hype, what's the ideal ratio? 50:1? 80:1 seems lean but who knows. 100:1 is out of the question for me.

Well try a ratio with amsoil you feel safe with, if you want to run 50:1 which I feel is a waste with saber 100:1, go with a 50:1 oil, saber is ment to burn lean and clean.
Conclusion, just keep running what you run 80:1 that seems to be an ideal ratio.
Posted via Mobile Device

Alan0354
06-29-2010, 02:21 PM
For the newer lean burn engine, extra oil is not necessary a waste. Remember the new engine use a lot less gas which means given any period of time running, less oil is going through the new lean burn engine than the old engine. So you automatically get less oil even with the same ratio.

As I said before, I use 60:1 and the inside is quite wet, you can clearly see a film of oil on the piston, very thin film in the muffler and a little oil onto the air filter. That shows it is plenty at 60:1. I have no clogging problem but then again I have low hours.

So I think 75:1 is not the end of the world particular so many people have good luck with 80:1.

I would like to hear more from people that use 60:1 or more oil of their long term result.

Richard Martin
06-29-2010, 04:51 PM
For the newer lean burn engine, extra oil is not necessary a waste. Remember the new engine use a lot less gas which means given any period of time running, less oil is going through the new lean burn engine than the old engine. So you automatically get less oil even with the same ratio.

I don't know that the 4 Mix engines are lean burn. They derive their increased fuel economy and reduced emissions from the simple fact that they are 4 strokes. You have significantly less unburned fuel going out the exhaust. The more fuel you can burn in the cylinder the better the economy and more power.

Alan0354
06-29-2010, 05:01 PM
I don't know that the 4 Mix engines are lean burn. They derive their increased fuel economy and reduced emissions from the simple fact that they are 4 strokes. You have significantly less unburned fuel going out the exhaust. The more fuel you can burn in the cylinder the better the economy and more power.

I should say 2 cycle engine. Also I notice more oil settle out inside the hybrid 4 cycle engines and seems like you don't need as much oil. Could it be the mix stay a full revolution cycle extra before going into the combussion chamber, more time to settle out?

Richard Martin
06-29-2010, 05:58 PM
I should say 2 cycle engine. Also I notice more oil settle out inside the hybrid 4 cycle engines and seems like you don't need as much oil. Could it be the mix stay a full revolution cycle extra before going into the combussion chamber, more time to settle out?

Here... Try to get your mind around this... http://www.new4stroke.com/images/Possible%20mutation%20pivot.htm If you understand that then the 4 Mix is easy.

Alan0354
06-29-2010, 11:11 PM
Here... Try to get your mind around this... http://www.new4stroke.com/images/Possible%20mutation%20pivot.htm If you understand that then the 4 Mix is easy.

I understand exactly how the 4Mix or the C4 work. I have animination of both.

I have too much studying to do right now and my mind hurts just looking at the pictures!!!!:dizzy::dizzy:

Andyshine77
07-01-2010, 07:13 AM
Andyshine Saber was not created to run 50:1 it was created for lean and clean burning, I was told buy a Amsoil Tech that 50:1 is a over kill and that running that rich would cause the ports to clog, I'm no expert but just saying, been running 80:1 -100:1 in all my 2 strokes even my old Yamaha banshee likes it.

I don't know what Tech you talked to, but that's hogwash, he's likely a rep aka salesman. I've spoken with Amsoil and they recommend running Saber professional @ 50:1 in most 2 cycle engines, they even suggest this it in their literature. Any good 2 cycle oil will burn clean from 32:1 to 50:1. More oil = better ring seal, longer engine life, and more power. It also makes the crank seals last longer.

ray0311
07-01-2010, 09:49 AM
I don't know what Tech you talked to, but that's hogwash, he's likely a rep aka salesman. I've spoken with Amsoil and they recommend running Saber professional @ 50:1 in most 2 cycle engines, they even suggest this it in their literature. Any good 2 cycle oil will burn clean from 32:1 to 50:1. More oil = better ring seal, longer engine life, and more power. It also makes the crank seals last longer.

No salesman I called Wisconsin.

Designed for lean mix ratios in two-cycle motors, Saber 2-Cycle Oil has excellent lubricity and cleanliness properties to control friction and help prevent wear, plug fouling, ring sticking and exhaust smoke.

@ 50:1 I would use their Dominator or interceptor thats just me though

Richard Martin
07-01-2010, 04:08 PM
I've spoken with Amsoil and they recommend running Saber professional @ 50:1 in most 2 cycle engines, they even suggest this it in their literature.

Then why do they say 100:1 in the most visable place that they can? On the front of the bottle. Why does it say it is designed for lean mix ratios?

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/images/atp_qt_300pxh.jpg

GMLC
07-01-2010, 05:16 PM
I wont bash amsoil but in a past life I was a GM master tech. At that time amsoil claimed you only had to change your engine oil once a year. GM would not warranty any of those engines if they failed. Never saw one fail, but would not be covered. Stick with the manufacturers recommendations and you wont have warranty coverage problems.

Roger
07-01-2010, 10:26 PM
... Any good 2 cycle oil will burn clean from 32:1 to 50:1. More oil = better ring seal, longer engine life, and more power. It also makes the crank seals last longer.

My experiences say otherwise. Many years ago, I too thought "more is better." Two things: (1) Mufflers get clogged because of rich mixtures -- not all oil gets burned, rather gets pushed out the exhaust and will create muck in the muffler, (2) Oil in the mixed fuel means less gasoline to burn for power. Oil burning is not nearly as efficient as gasoline. Rich mixtures have more oil to burn for power, and the equipment will be running at less-than-top efficiency.

Key is to find the balance, enough for good lubrication, but not so much that mufflers get clogged and the engine runs poorly because it is trying to get power out of oil burning.

LawnBoy recommended 32:1, but in this case the manufacturer's recommendation would not work. And, this was using their own oil. Even running 50:1 clogged the muffler and exhaust ports. This is one good example My point is that even manufacturer's recommendations aren't necessary good ones.

I run 75:1 Amsoil in my Stihl handhelds, both 2 cycle and 4-mix units. This seems to be the best mix for me. However, I run 50:1 Amsoil in my Sizuki running on a Toro Proline. It has ran for years with this mix, and does not clog the muffler. The engine has thousands of hours, and still runs very well.

These threads are as interesting as "How do I take my blades off?" Many answers to the question.

Andyshine77
07-02-2010, 02:53 AM
Then why do they say 100:1 in the most visable place that they can? On the front of the bottle. Why does it say it is designed for lean mix ratios?

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/images/atp_qt_300pxh.jpg

Simple, some Eskimos will buy ice from a good sales man with a good sales pitch. Motor up, Z max, STP the list goes on. It's your money do what you want with it. Read Amsoil's literature, they even suggest running more oil in most applications. Amsoil is actually in some legal issues with the 100:1 nonsense, and from what I know they're going to drop the 100:1 claim at anytime. Let me reiterate Amsoil makes great oil, but their outlandish claims are over the top to say the least.

Amsoil @ 100:1 you decide.

Andyshine77
07-02-2010, 02:59 AM
My experiences say otherwise. Many years ago, I too thought "more is better." Two things: (1) Mufflers get clogged because of rich mixtures -- not all oil gets burned, rather gets pushed out the exhaust and will create muck in the muffler, (2) Oil in the mixed fuel means less gasoline to burn for power. Oil burning is not nearly as efficient as gasoline. Rich mixtures have more oil to burn for power, and the equipment will be running at less-than-top efficiency.

Key is to find the balance, enough for good lubrication, but not so much that mufflers get clogged and the engine runs poorly because it is trying to get power out of oil burning.

LawnBoy recommended 32:1, but in this case the manufacturer's recommendation would not work. And, this was using their own oil. Even running 50:1 clogged the muffler and exhaust ports. This is one good example My point is that even manufacturer's recommendations aren't necessary good ones.

I run 75:1 Amsoil in my Stihl handhelds, both 2 cycle and 4-mix units. This seems to be the best mix for me. However, I run 50:1 Amsoil in my Sizuki running on a Toro Proline. It has ran for years with this mix, and does not clog the muffler. The engine has thousands of hours, and still runs very well.

These threads are as interesting as "How do I take my blades off?" Many answers to the question.

With 2 cycle engines tuning plays a big part in all of this. Sure tune the engine stupid rich and 100:1 may work, @ 50:1 oil may run poor out the exhaust.

Richard Martin
07-02-2010, 03:58 AM
Amsoil @ 100:1 you decide.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105505&stc=1&d=1207569684

Amsoil @ 80:1. I've decided. BTW, mine is a Stihl FC75 edger with 8 seasons on it when this pic was taken. What kind of motorcyle or whatever was your picture from? I'd also like to know how it was tuned? Weren't you the guy that said you were messing around with the A/F ratios to get the "maximum" tune from chainsaws and stuff.

BTW, I have read the lit from Amsoil. Nowhere does it state that they recommend a 50:1 for most applications.

Andyshine77
07-02-2010, 05:15 AM
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105505&stc=1&d=1207569684

Amsoil @ 80:1. I've decided. BTW, mine is a Stihl FC75 edger with 8 seasons on it when this pic was taken. What kind of motorcyle or whatever was your picture from? I'd also like to know how it was tuned? Weren't you the guy that said you were messing around with the A/F ratios to get the "maximum" tune from chainsaws and stuff.

BTW, I have read the lit from Amsoil. Nowhere does it state that they recommend a 50:1 for most applications.

Applications (2-Cycle Recommendations Chart)
AMSOIL Saber 100:1 2-Cycle Oil is recommended for 100:1 mix ratios in normal service. Richer mix ratios may be used where desired.
2.6 oz. per 1 U.S. gallon 50:1
8 oz. per 5 U.S. gallons 80:1
1.3 oz. per 1 U.S. gallon 100:1
8 oz. per 6 U.S. gallons 100:1

What's normal use? Why mention richer mix ratios? I'll tell you why, it's an out.

Maximum tune no, correct tune yes. The pic is of a Stihl MS 441 chainsaw, the user was running Saber @ 100:1. The saw is now running Saber @ 50:1. 100:1 or 80:1 simply doesn't provide enough lubrication in most applications, especially with today's fuel. Even though this site has many members running lean mix, it's still a very very small test sample, what works for a few doesn't mean it really works.

Ask yourself this. Does Stihl, Husky, or Shindaiwa invest more money on R&D than Amsoil? Where does Amsoil get there base stocks from? Mobil, BP, Citgo,? I don't remember hearing about Amsoil owning any refineries. is Amsoil really that much better than the other leading manufactures of 2 cycle oils?

Fact is Amsoil is a great PAO oil, with a great additive package, but it's not good enough to run it at 100:1 in an air cooled 2 cycle engine. Honestly it's not even close to a good ester syn oil.

If the OPE manufactures felt 100:1 mix would provide enough lubrication they'd recommend it to help reduce emissions a little bit, as that's something they're really struggling with right now.

Richard I'm not trying to simply argue with you, I'm just trying to point out the facts as I know them from working on small 2 cycle engines for the past 20 years.

shooterm
07-02-2010, 07:20 AM
This is a bunch off BS. Just because some snakesalesman says his product is so good you dont have to use as much oil I'd ignore them. I've heard this story plenty of times before dont get caught up in this game.

Alan0354
07-02-2010, 02:07 PM
Applications (2-Cycle Recommendations Chart)
AMSOIL Saber 100:1 2-Cycle Oil is recommended for 100:1 mix ratios in normal service. Richer mix ratios may be used where desired.
2.6 oz. per 1 U.S. gallon 50:1
8 oz. per 5 U.S. gallons 80:1
1.3 oz. per 1 U.S. gallon 100:1
8 oz. per 6 U.S. gallons 100:1

What's normal use? Why mention richer mix ratios? I'll tell you why, it's an out.

Maximum tune no, correct tune yes. The pic is of a Stihl MS 441 chainsaw, the user was running Saber @ 100:1. The saw is now running Saber @ 50:1. 100:1 or 80:1 simply doesn't provide enough lubrication in most applications, especially with today's fuel. Even though this site has many members running lean mix, it's still a very very small test sample, what works for a few doesn't mean it really works.

Ask yourself this. Does Stihl, Husky, or Shindaiwa invest more money on R&D than Amsoil? Where does Amsoil get there base stocks from? Mobil, BP, Citgo,? I don't remember hearing about Amsoil owning any refineries. is Amsoil really that much better than the other leading manufactures of 2 cycle oils?

Fact is Amsoil is a great PAO oil, with a great additive package, but it's not good enough to run it at 100:1 in an air cooled 2 cycle engine. Honestly it's not even close to a good ester syn oil.

If the OPE manufactures felt 100:1 mix would provide enough lubrication they'd recommend it to help reduce emissions a little bit, as that's something they're really struggling with right now.

Richard I'm not trying to simply argue with you, I'm just trying to point out the facts as I know them from working on small 2 cycle engines for the past 20 years.

Well, I posted a thread asking who use 60:1 to 50:1. It's been on for 2 days and very few replied. Look like most use lean mix. There are a lot of people here using Amsoil and noboby I read has problem and I am a 2 cycle fanatic and pretty much read all the 2 cycle posts. Seems like 80:1 work and stuff last for years.

I am not for 80:1, as I said I do 60:1 myself so I am on your boat!!! But the fact is people have good success over the years with mostly 80:1. I think most agree 100:1 is pushing it.

Andyshine77
07-03-2010, 03:46 AM
Well, I posted a thread asking who use 60:1 to 50:1. It's been on for 2 days and very few replied. Look like most use lean mix. There are a lot of people here using Amsoil and noboby I read has problem and I am a 2 cycle fanatic and pretty much read all the 2 cycle posts. Seems like 80:1 work and stuff last for years.

I am not for 80:1, as I said I do 60:1 myself so I am on your boat!!! But the fact is people have good success over the years with mostly 80:1. I think most agree 100:1 is pushing it.

I'm not trying to down what people run in their equipment or how they run their equipment I'm just passing along what I know, and what I've seen, and 50:1 is a safe bet. Yes many good syn oils will work fine at 60:1 and maybe even 80:1, but you're margin of error is now very very small, and with larger high output engines the margin is even smaller. I simply see no real reason to run anything but 50:1 in most 2 cycle OPE.

Have a good one Alan.:drinkup:

Roger
07-03-2010, 08:45 AM
Amsoil ==> neoStihl