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View Full Version : Issues with Toro Personal Pace Residential / Commercial (just 15 yards)


rkmcniel
06-19-2010, 12:32 AM
Having major issues with this Personal Pace system. Wheels locking up when going backwards, and sometimes even forwards. Replaced transmission, belt, rear wheels, still the wheels are wanting to lock up...thank goodness it is under Warranty. This is the 379$ one from Home Depot...I wonder if the 580$ dollar version with the Honda engine would be any better?

topsites
06-19-2010, 01:20 AM
Not sure but if you buy one from a dealer you would at least get their warranty
department's support in the repair shop because that is where my machine
would be headed if I were experiencing these types of problems.

mnglocker
06-19-2010, 01:45 AM
This is the 379$ one from Home Depot...I wonder if the 580$ dollar version with the Honda engine would be any better?

It's all in the transmission system, not the engine there. That and before I'd drop $580 on a consumer pos Toro, I'd look hard and close at bad boys 21". That thing is gnarly for $400. All though you'd be better served by finding a used 36" walk behind.

lawnboy dan
06-19-2010, 06:36 PM
spend the $ and get a real toro-the proline. you have found out that buying cheap doesnt save in the long run

jahbp
06-19-2010, 07:40 PM
Check the gear on the shaft that turns the wheel they may not be on right way

joshnwright
07-24-2010, 01:26 AM
:hammerhead:I have the one with the honda engine on it engine is grait but it has plastic gears that go to metal gears thay have striped twice in the two months Ive had it and my dealer would not warranty it due to "mud in the tires" I'm not to happy about it I just leave it at the shop and use my old trusty 21" MTD haha it is a cheap little pile but atleast it will pull its self around

HighFiveBassin
07-24-2010, 09:52 AM
I have the Personal Pace Super Recycler that I bought from a dealer over 12 years ago. I use it just for my own lawn and the only repair issue I ever had with it was a cable that broke after I snagged it on a tree branch. The rear wheels are worn almost smooth.

It has always locked up about 25% of the time when pulling it backwards. Something in the drive system doesn't release. This was addressed in the manual and the instructions were to ease it forward to release. This has been my only aggravation with the mower as you never knew how much effort it was going to take to pull it backwards. I think it is a design flaw and Toro should have found a way to correct it by now. I just learned to live with it.

topsites
07-24-2010, 10:11 AM
I think it is a design flaw and Toro should have found a way to correct it by now.

I have learned not to think that way, lets just say Stihl gas cap.

I just learned to live with it.

I have found that appears to be the best answer.

watatrp
07-24-2010, 03:32 PM
I've had the same problem with my Lawnboy which has the same drive system. I've replaced everything from the shaft out to the wheel on the side that locks up on mine. There is a nylon part that is supposed to release the wheel when you move backwards. I can make the parts work when I'm assembling the parts but for some reason it occasionally locks up the wheels when I pull it backwards. If you roll forward a few inches it should release to go backwards. I've moved my mower to a backup machine until I can figure out exactly what's wrong with it. I'll try adding some different grease next to see if that might help.

balreadysaid
07-24-2010, 05:39 PM
buy the push version for this reason. less moving parts means less breakdowns. i dont own a push mower with propulsion and i never have a transmision problem lol go figure! i paid 822 with the bag and tax for my new toro comercial 21 push sounds like alot but with the gsv190 honda its the second most torque out of all the honda and toro comercial mowers and i think it is tied for first in hp. @ 6.5, in comercial versions they run lower hp. i just found this out while looking up the engine specs from kohler honda and kawasaki. the gcv190 and gsv190 motors are almost the same except for the bore is a iron liner on the gsv.

watatrp
07-24-2010, 06:33 PM
It would be nice to have push only mowers. I have several properties where I am mowing on substantial hills and a push just would not work. I can barely stand on them when it's wet. Luckily they are smaller areas so I can stand on the bottom of the hill and let the mower do the work as I guide it from the bottom of the hill.

balreadysaid
07-24-2010, 07:10 PM
It would be nice to have push only mowers. I have several properties where I am mowing on substantial hills and a push just would not work. I can barely stand on them when it's wet. Luckily they are smaller areas so I can stand on the bottom of the hill and let the mower do the work as I guide it from the bottom of the hill.

agreed i dont have long hills just the steep short ones where a push of the arms from the sidewalk wil get it done, so infact i think the push is actually designed for what i use them for. everything else is flat so my speed i walk is my pace. i should build a mower called a my pace.:usflag:

Knight511
07-24-2010, 07:30 PM
This is just a normal issue with these drive systems. Both of my Husq's have this same drive and one of the mowers is so bad I am ready to take all of the drive crap out to convert to a push... the other... NEVER a problem... hit-or-miss for sure...

grass catcher
07-24-2010, 08:56 PM
This is just a normal issue with these drive systems. Both of my Husq's have this same drive and one of the mowers is so bad I am ready to take all of the drive crap out to convert to a push... the other... NEVER a problem... hit-or-miss for sure...

I started running all toro proline comm. Ijust bought a new one this week
1257 dollars my other one is 2 years old and still runs and drives great
we run them 5 days a week 7 hrs a day my bagger only model broke
my fault it has a grease fitting up under a gaurd and i did not know it was there grease evrery 25 hrs we ran it a year and a half last week the tranny locked up not sure the repair cost yet
if they can be abused that bad and still go they have to great
only complaint is they are very heavy

ed2hess
07-24-2010, 09:18 PM
I have the Personal Pace Super Recycler that I bought from a dealer over 12 years ago. I use it just for my own lawn and the only repair issue I ever had with it was a cable that broke after I snagged it on a tree branch. The rear wheels are worn almost smooth.

It has always locked up about 25% of the time when pulling it backwards. Something in the drive system doesn't release. This was addressed in the manual and the instructions were to ease it forward to release. This has been my only aggravation with the mower as you never knew how much effort it was going to take to pull it backwards. I think it is a design flaw and Toro should have found a way to correct it by now. I just learned to live with it.

We got a top of the line lawnboy and it does exactly the same thing...ease it forward does seem to work.

LawnTamer
07-24-2010, 09:33 PM
The Toro Personal pace mowers are crap. I love Toros, but am ashamed that Toro would let their name be on such garbage. Cheap lightweight stamped deck, underbuilt handle, cheap wheels, and a POS drive system. I had 2 of them and after just one yr and many repairs and welds, I chucked them both into the dumpster. These were just used in gated areas where a 36" wouldn't fit. Total junk. Bought a Honda 5 yrs ago, I have done nothing but change the oil, and air filter.

I have had 2 21" Proline mowers, and I can honestly say that I like my Honda better, and it has lasted every bit as long. The deck never needs to be cleaned, it is light weight and mulches better than my any of my 21" Toros did.

This is my Honda (http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Lawn-Mowers-Riding-Mowers-Walk-Behind-Mowers/Honda/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5ZbapuZ3le/R-100617641/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

My larger mowers are still all Toros.

Knight511
07-24-2010, 10:54 PM
I started running all toro proline comm. Ijust bought a new one this week
1257 dollars my other one is 2 years old and still runs and drives great
we run them 5 days a week 7 hrs a day my bagger only model broke
my fault it has a grease fitting up under a gaurd and i did not know it was there grease evrery 25 hrs we ran it a year and a half last week the tranny locked up not sure the repair cost yet
if they can be abused that bad and still go they have to great
only complaint is they are very heavy

Anybody that praises Toros as much as folks I see around this board must be 5'6" because Toros have handles an Oompa-Woompa would appreciate! The short handles on the Toro is what makes me want a Honda commercial... maybe if I am a good little boy Santa will give me money for one? LoL.

N.TX
07-25-2010, 01:21 AM
we have both the commercial prolines and personal pace residentials......the personal pace always come off the trailer first because they are so much lighter weight.

jkilov
07-25-2010, 09:57 AM
The ratchet system in the wheels may be sticking and needs greasing.

Try letting go of the drive lever early, before the mover comes to a stop (difficult with PP) so that the mower travels a foot or so on momentum alone, which should release the drive ratchets allowing you to pull it backwards.

balreadysaid
07-27-2010, 03:52 PM
i just used my 22155 toro all day today i liked the cut @ 3" it was nice. i mowed a back yard that was over grown gated all flat @ 2" and the motor performed better than i thought i think it might have boggaed a few times when the bag was full and i was stipp pushing it into 8 inch tall thick wet crap. it left a clean cut im happy with it.

i was just looking at prices on this site for all the heavyduty comercial toro and the one like mine.

http://www.sepw.com/toro-commercial-lawnmowers.aspx?CategoryID=17

i dont get why the kawasaki with a bigger tank is cheaper than the less powerful honda gxv version with a smaller tank??? the fj180v kai version makes like 9ftlbs of torque where the gxv160 honda is less than the gsv190 honda on my lesser version?? im sure it is a better motor but when it comes right down to it power makes time when your push mowing, so does a huge 1 gallon tank! compared to half gallon mine is a quarter gallon which is fine for me it actually runs out by the time im done.

TPnTX
07-28-2010, 08:42 AM
there are some slight differences between the SR4 and the Home Depot PP.

When they work the work great. When they start to mess up, it's confusing. Even though the design is pretty simple when you look at each piece, when you look at it as a whole it takes some effort to figure it out.

That said if youre going to use one, get some spare parts and learn how the thing works. Virtually any problem can be fixed in 10 - 20 mins if you know what youre doing. The SR4 is a decent mower and has many advantages over bulky prolines but it goes both ways. We use both and like the the other guy said the SR4 will get grabbed 1st. That is after the worker gets over the image issue. Lol its like a moped or a fat chick. You dont want your friends to see you.

Any way before you jump to conclusions, next time you see a Valley Crest NPR truck go by take notice what you see on their trucks. SR4 PP everytime.

All_Toro_4ME
07-28-2010, 09:24 AM
http://www.sepw.com/toro-commercial-lawnmowers.aspx?CategoryID=17

i dont get why the kawasaki with a bigger tank is cheaper than the less powerful honda gxv version with a smaller tank??? the fj180v kai version makes like 9ftlbs of torque where the gxv160 honda is less than the gsv190 honda on my lesser version?? im sure it is a better motor but when it comes right down to it power makes time when your push mowing, so does a huge 1 gallon tank! compared to half gallon mine is a quarter gallon which is fine for me it actually runs out by the time im done.


When I bought my proline, I had the same question. Why are the prolines more expensive with the Honda engines which have less power and smaller fuel tanks? The dealer told me it does seem backwards but it's because Honda demands a premium higher price on their engines causing the overall cost of the machine to be more expensive.

cashishift
07-28-2010, 11:42 AM
I've never used a Toro with Personal Pace.. and I'd never consider buying one.

It looks like the worst idea ever.

Toro should have stuck to their roots with the Super Recyclers of yesteryear :(

TPnTX
07-28-2010, 05:40 PM
I've never used a Toro with Personal Pace.. and I'd never consider buying one.

It looks like the worst idea ever.

Toro should have stuck to their roots with the Super Recyclers of yesteryear :(

Well there you go. Your experience I guess makes you qualified to comment on something you admittedly know absolutely nothing about.

Dont misunderstand, I dont recommend you go and buy a home depot PP and expect it to last a season.

Im talking about the PP on the SR4, I think you can still get an SR4 with a regular tranny.

The PP is not a bad idea at all when it works. In situations where you have a lot of back and forth motion. Say trim mowing, you really can't beat it. They even make a semi commercial trim mower. I think its an SR4 with steel wheels call a PT something but they are too pricey.

When I bought them we had a HOA with 400+ postage stamp front yards. We ran Proline and SR4 side by side. In that situation the SR4 will out mow a proline. Seen it done it. After a while I noticed who grabbed what at the beginning of the day. Some experienced workers who once laughed would grab them instead of the proline. By the end of the run they where far less fatigued.

The only problem I had with them where the size of the gas tanks and the folding handles and maintenance. The proline will run all day on 1 tank. The SR4 would do about 100 of those small yards and it was out. So I welded the handles fixing that problem and we also had a clever way of carrying extra gas. You do have to know how to replace the plastic washers. No big deal or expense.

So there are many reasons to have an SR4 PP.

Will they last as long a proline. No especially the wheels, but when you factor in shithappens sometimes they do. I've prolines die too. Broken decks, Kawasaki motors gone bad. Abuse.

Keith
07-28-2010, 11:12 PM
When I bought my proline, I had the same question. Why are the prolines more expensive with the Honda engines which have less power and smaller fuel tanks? The dealer told me it does seem backwards but it's because Honda demands a premium higher price on their engines causing the overall cost of the machine to be more expensive.

I recently bought a 22195 with the GXV160. I got a good deal on it, or I would have never dreamed of buying it. It's alright, but it certainly could stand more power for mulching. After owning it for a month or so, I'd probably buy the Kawasaki if I had to do it again. Or go back in time and pick up a couple with the 2-cycle Suzuki ;)

balreadysaid
07-28-2010, 11:34 PM
yeah thats the thing the gxv160 is not powerfull for a comercial engine. the gsv has more torque and hp i think. the kawasaki kai fj180 has more power than the regular fj180 too im pretty sure! like the guy said above honda demands a premium on their top end motors!

by looking at the high end 22195 etc they look just like my old super recycler 2 deck with the same rivets and everything! and i do like my old super 2 it will make a yard look nice but on some yards it will make a mess, oh well a 60 dollar mower should only do so much gts 550 forever!

on ebay you can find 2 stroke toro motors and they probly will bolt right up! that would be cool if you could have a new 2 stroke that rocked

Keith
07-29-2010, 01:22 AM
I remember there was a time, many years ago, that you could pick new replacements cheap. I could kick myself for not at least buying one or two of them.

18lmslcsr
08-08-2010, 01:23 PM
Two PP SR2's. Both ran great for years cutting all day 5-6 days a week. Zero complaints as to quality of cut or durability.
The design of the transmission simplicity at it's best. The design of it's drive shaft an associated parts...Lol! I went through 4 drive shafts (@approx. $70-80 per/unit) and wheels and drive parts. Neither of the Toro's owe me anything. They have been great machines. I more then made my profit from them. I just got tired of the tight backing up.

Our most recent purchase SNAPPER!

Wow what a great machine. Dealer is lack luster, but the build quality seems second to only Honda!


C.

Quality Cuts PLS
08-08-2010, 04:10 PM
I have a PT21 and that happens every so often. It has to do with the tension on the friction washer in the drive hub, sometimes it is still engaged while you try to pull backwards. It can also make one wheel have more "pull" than the other if they are not adjusted correctly. I have had mine for a year or so and have not had any issues. It has been a great mower, easy to start, great power, and a beautiful cut. I didn't want another Proline due to the weight and cost. My dealer had a promo on the PT21, and I was able to save a few dollars, so I picked one up and I have been pleased with it.

joed
08-08-2010, 04:12 PM
Great comments by all on this thread.

I bought a toro pt21 with the personal pace tranny in 2007. That was their semi-commercial one. It gave a good cut, out-mulched the prolines but that personal pace was a disaster. It would constantly get stuck, when you bagged with it, it slowed down quite a bit too. I finally traded it in on a 2008 exmark 21" metro in 2008. This has the KAI series FJ180v engine and it's been fabulous.

I wish Toro would put the 3 speed tranny they used to have on their top end homeowner units back again. That was a good transmission.

Lawntamer, the photo of your honda mower shows that is the HRX217 model with the variable speed tranny. How has that tranny worked out for you? How does your model do when mulching leaves in the fall?

rkmcniel
08-09-2010, 02:12 PM
So far it has been nothing but wonderful!! Cuts awesome and holds so much grass when I bag...