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HighGrass
06-19-2010, 12:11 PM
So, once again it's time for an oil change for the Scag. I am currently using Pennzoil 30HD but can't find it in gallon jugs. Always looking to save money and improve performance.
What do you guys use in your MOWERS?

I'm thinking about switching.

Mike Blevins
06-19-2010, 01:09 PM
Well I dont recommend trying to save money when it comes to engine protection. I run Amzoil in my Turf Tiger. My Scag dealer starts running it at 100 hours. Also use the Amzoil grease in all my spindles and trailer bearings.

whosedog
06-19-2010, 01:55 PM
Mobil 1 synthetic 10w30,$25 for a 5 qt jug at walmart.

Richard Martin
06-19-2010, 03:52 PM
Pennzoil 10w30 dino in everything but my wife's Cobalt. I change the oil every 100 hours and the filter every 200 just like the manual says to for my Kohler and 2 Kawasaki engines.

HighGrass
06-19-2010, 04:52 PM
Mobil 1 synthetic 10w30,$25 for a 5 qt jug at walmart.

So you've had good luck with a multi weight oil in what mower/Motor?

yardguy28
06-19-2010, 05:12 PM
10w30. all i know is its in blue bottles from napa. i get a case of it at a time. same stuff i put in my vehicle only the truck is 5w30.

i never understand the guys who will say to put the best most expensive oil in there vehicles or equipment. i've always bought the cheap stuff for everything.

i recently did switch to buying stihl oil for my stihl equipment but thats mostly a test for me to see if i notice any sort of difference from teh cheap stuff i was using. so far after almost a month i haven't seen any difference in performance. but i now have a brand new stihl fs70 and it requires at least the partially synthetic oil from stihl so i'm stuck buying stihl oil from here on out.

as for the mowers. the same napa oil i put in my vehicles will go in the mowers.

oh and the mowers are toro and exmark with kaw engines.

whosedog
06-19-2010, 05:28 PM
So you've had good luck with a multi weight oil in what mower/Motor?

25hp kawi on 2002 wright stander(it's the exact oil recommended by the owners manual,also could use amsOil 10w40) also 12hp bobcat walk behind,21' push,and belt edger.

Grubrunner
06-19-2010, 05:35 PM
10w30. all i know is its in blue bottles from napa. i get a case of it at a time. same stuff i put in my vehicle only the truck is 5w30.

i never understand the guys who will say to put the best most expensive oil in there vehicles or equipment. i've always bought the cheap stuff for everything.

If the "blue bottles" are all you've ever used then you have no idea on what you're missing out on.

But hey, more power to you.

but i now have a brand new stihl fs70 and it requires at least the partially synthetic oil from stihl so i'm stuck buying stihl oil from here on out.

You believe that?

If you do: I have a nice bridge for sale in Sydney, Australia. A little used and abused but I'll give it to you for a bargain.... interested?

HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Homelite-Exact-Synthetic-Blend-Engine/dp/B0002KKQ6Q), save yourself some money.... bet it's cheaper than Stihl.

as for the mowers. the same napa oil i put in my vehicles will go in the mowers.

oh and the mowers are toro and exmark with kaw engines.

Poor mowers/engines.

Anyway, I always use Amsoil on anything with a motor.... always!

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ase.aspx

Richard Martin
06-19-2010, 05:54 PM
If the "blue bottles" are all you've ever used then you have no idea on what you're missing out on.

Why don't you explain to all of us just what it is that he's missing?

Grubrunner
06-19-2010, 06:02 PM
Why don't you explain to all of us just what it is that he's missing?

I couldn't be bothered here, no offence. But I'd be more than happy to post some links to graphs/reviews/test/comparisons between Amsoil and other oils.... interested?

If you've used ordinary oil then converted to Amsoil, then you'd know.

Richard Martin
06-19-2010, 06:11 PM
I couldn't be bothered here, no offence. But I'd be more than happy to post some links to graphs/reviews/test/comparisons between Amsoil and other oils.... interested?

If you've used ordinary oil then converted to Amsoil, then you'd know.

It doesn't have to be a big explanation. Just something from an independent lab that supports the main claims. You know, a lab that Amsoil didn't pay to test their oil. Does it make your engine last longer would be just about the only one I'm worried about.

I've seen people get 4,000+ hours when using dino oil. I've seen them get 4,000+ on Amsoil and other synthetics.

I've also seen engines that didn't last long at all on both types of oil.

Jason Rose
06-19-2010, 06:16 PM
Amsoil small engine, 10w30/30 I was highly skeptical at first, but finally gave it a shot 2 years ago. I can't make any claims about what it really does for the engine, or if there's less wear, but I can tell you, I change my oil in my engines every 100 hours, with filter, and in that time there's almost no oil consumption with the Amsoil. The oil also appears cleaner, meaning it's broken down and "cooked" less in that time.

I've ran dino oil, I've used synthetic blends, and I've ran Mobil-1 synthetic, the extended performance. None of them go the full 100 hours without having to add oil periodicaly. Kohlers are known to use some oil, and my newer Briggs big block used nearly a quart in it's first 100 hours after it's first oil change on valvoline dino 10w30. Switched to the Amsoil at 100 hours, the engine is at 195 hours now and it's still right on the full mark.

I'm also using the Amsoil signature 0w30 in my trucks. I also have no claims about fuel economy improvements (they are trucks), but I can tell you, my 454 big block in my 1995 chevy 1 ton has 3500 miles on the oil currently, and is also dead on the full mark still. For a big block, that's unheard of, and I drive the hell out of it pulling a loaded trailer, plus the truck weighs just under 10K itself...

I just placed another order for my amsoil, 4 gallons of signature, and 4 cases of small engine oil. Get a "commercial dealer" account. The prices are MUCH better.

Grubrunner
06-19-2010, 06:21 PM
I have a large PDF file that I'll upload tonight and post the link.

It's an independent test on several engine oils and their spec sheets which I think you may enjoy.

Gotta' take my little boy out for dinner now.

L8R

mbrew
06-19-2010, 06:47 PM
I couldn't be bothered here, no offence. But I'd be more than happy to post some links to graphs/reviews/test/comparisons between Amsoil and other oils.... interested?

If you've used ordinary oil then converted to Amsoil, then you'd know.

Geeez..... My poor 20 year old Snappers and 10 year old Ariens have been so mistreated. All they have get is a decent brand of basic dino motor oil. Just think of what I'm missing because I don't bow at the alter of Amsoil. And just think about my poor vehicles. They've endured 168000 and 197000 miles of use without Amsoil, and my last truck made it to 325000 miles before I sold it. Just think about my poor 28 year old Yamaha. It surely won't make it to 29 years. If I'd only used Amsoil, maybe I'd still be using all these machines. Oh wait ...... with one exception, I still am.

If you're not going to be bothered to support your position, then why enter the discussion?

In seriousness, I use a name brand oil in the recommended grade. In my case its usually Pennzoil for the very highly technical reason that they support the shooting sports. Before anyone starts with the Pensoil and Quakerstate causes build up, it hasn't been true in 30 years if it ever was. The blends of oils are much more sophisticated now than they were when in the early days.
The results I get are listed above.

JohnBanks
06-19-2010, 07:41 PM
I use Amsoil in all my stuff.

yardguy28
06-19-2010, 07:52 PM
If the "blue bottles" are all you've ever used then you have no idea on what you're missing out on.

But hey, more power to you.



You believe that?

If you do: I have a nice bridge for sale in Sydney, Australia. A little used and abused but I'll give it to you for a bargain.... interested?

HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Homelite-Exact-Synthetic-Blend-Engine/dp/B0002KKQ6Q), save yourself some money.... bet it's cheaper than Stihl.



Poor mowers/engines.

Anyway, I always use Amsoil on anything with a motor.... always!

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ase.aspx

Why don't you explain to all of us just what it is that he's missing?

yes what am i missing because everything i've put the blue bottle oil into has been running great and has lasted a long time.

the blue bottle stuff is the same stuff the mechanic i use for other things puts in the vehicles he changes oil in. my family all uses the same mechanic and i'm the only one that changes my own oil. the mechanic uses the same stuff i use.

as for the stihl equipment. i am just going by what the dealer is telling me. i trust my dealers. a lot more than i would trust anyone on this website.

back to the mowers. i've never heard a dealer or read in a manual certain brands or types of oil to use. they all basically say what weight to use and thats it. so as long as it's the proper weight which for my mower engines happens to be 10w30 i'm happy.

IOWA GUY
06-19-2010, 09:08 PM
If the "blue bottles" are all you've ever used then you have no idea on what you're missing out on.

But hey, more power to you.



You believe that?

If you do: I have a nice bridge for sale in Sydney, Australia. A little used and abused but I'll give it to you for a bargain.... interested?

HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Homelite-Exact-Synthetic-Blend-Engine/dp/B0002KKQ6Q), save yourself some money.... bet it's cheaper than Stihl.



Poor mowers/engines.

Anyway, I always use Amsoil on anything with a motor.... always!

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ase.aspx
A majority of the NAPA oil is made for them by Valvoline.
Yes,it's very good oil.
Their syn. oil is one of the best.

Sammy
06-20-2010, 01:39 AM
Pennzoil in all my mowers and tractors.
Stihl 2-cycle oil.

Tried Amsoil 2-cycle last year. Waste of time.

Nosmo
06-20-2010, 04:53 AM
Here is the place to find out about oil. Nosmo

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

HighGrass
06-20-2010, 01:33 PM
I never received a kawi manual with my mower (scag) but I did find a repair manual on line. After reading it, I did see the insert about multi grade oil. Since I have been using Penn 30HD (Only in quart bottles) I may switch to Pennzoil 10W40 and get it in gallon jugs. My earlier statement about saving money was more of a reflection on spending wisely as opposed to cutting corners when it comes to servicing. If I could find a source where I could get either the 30HD or 10W40 in a 25 gallon barrel and cut down on my costs, I would. Kinda tough around here though. Shipping it in would be too costly maybe...

Jason Rose
06-20-2010, 01:37 PM
most all small engines, Kohler, kawi, briggs, all call for 10 W 30 now. 30 weight dosn't have the right properties for the newer hydraulic lifters and tighter tolerances in the engines. Also the multi weight oil, i believe, is to help with emmisions and "fuel economy".

Everything I've heard over the years is that pennzoil is the worst their is...

Mike Blevins
06-20-2010, 02:05 PM
I switched to Amzoil 2 cycle this year and I can tell a difference in my 2 stroke equipment. It has a little different smell to it but it seems to keep everything cleaner. I changed the plugs at the beginning of the season and noticed alot of carbon build up. Pulled the plug on it a couple days ago and it looks alot cleaner inside. I don't claim Amzoil is the best oil out there. I do know that the local Harley Shop is a dealer and it out performs the "Harley Davidson" oil by leaps and bounds. Two of my friends work there. One is a "service techinician" (mechanic) the other is the parts manager. Both use amzoil in everything they own with a motor. And no i don't buy my oil from them. I also use Mobil 1 Synthetic 5w-20 in my wifes Honda Odyssey,10w-30 Valvoline in my old 1989 ford probe,and the Chevrolet dealer puts mobil 10w-30 in my 2004 Chevrolet 2500. I also put the Amzoil Transmission oil in my truck and it now runs a bit cooler even when pulling my 8000 lb camper. I truley believe in their product.

yardguy28
06-20-2010, 04:33 PM
as long as my equipment runs and starts up when i need it to i don't care brand it is. if the manual says 10w 30, whatever brand is fine for me. sparks plugs get changed every year anyway so who cares about the carbon build up.

i don't expect my equipment to last forever. i'm only expecting about 900 or so hours out of my mowers anyway. too many people have told me once you hit 900 thats when things start breaking down no matter how well you take care of it. so why put expensive oil in it in the first place???

Mike Blevins
06-20-2010, 05:37 PM
as long as my equipment runs and starts up when i need it to i don't care brand it is. if the manual says 10w 30, whatever brand is fine for me. sparks plugs get changed every year anyway so who cares about the carbon build up.

i don't expect my equipment to last forever. i'm only expecting about 900 or so hours out of my mowers anyway. too many people have told me once you hit 900 thats when things start breaking down no matter how well you take care of it. so why put expensive oil in it in the first place???

I can understand someone wanting to save money. If you figure a mower only lasting 900 hours and you paid $9000.00 for it then you have $10.00 an hour in it. Bottom line is if you take a little more effort in maintenance on anything your going to get longer and better service out of it. I have to disagree with you on mowers giving problems at a certain amount of hours. I have alot of friends that are in this business and I can tell you that there are some of them that i would buy their machines with 1500 hours on them rather than the other guys with 300 hours just becasue I know how they take care fo their equipment. One friend has equipment with very low hours that looks like you drove it off a cliff. The other guy spends a little more money and time maintaining his equipment therefore when he sells his used equipment he gets top dollar. The other guy can't give his low hour stuff away. To me its alot bigger picture than just saving a little money. I am really expecting alot more than 900 hours out of my mowers engine. It hard to make money when your expecting to pay 10.00 an hour plus fuel costs to operate.

Richard Martin
06-20-2010, 05:44 PM
It hard to make money when your expecting to pay 10.00 an hour plus fuel costs to operate.

This is also the reason some guys have really high operating costs per hour. If you're ditching your mowers after only 900 hours or needlessly replacing them every 2 years regardless of hours then you constantly have high dollar costs per hour just for mowers.

I expect my Dixie to go to at least 4,000 hours before I think about replacement. I paid $4500 for it with 29 hours on it. Cost per hour... $1.125.
I have spent literally nothing on repairs. 1 throttle cable and a muffler. And it has 1150 hours on it.

Mike Blevins
06-20-2010, 06:25 PM
This is also the reason some guys have really high operating costs per hour. If you're ditching your mowers after only 900 hours or needlessly replacing them every 2 years regardless of hours then you constantly have high dollar costs per hour just for mowers.

I expect my Dixie to go to at least 4,000 hours before I think about replacement. I paid $4500 for it with 29 hours on it. Cost per hour... $1.125.
I have spent literally nothing on repairs. 1 throttle cable and a muffler. And it has 1150 hours on it.

Now thats how you do it.

yardguy28
06-20-2010, 06:56 PM
I can understand someone wanting to save money. If you figure a mower only lasting 900 hours and you paid $9000.00 for it then you have $10.00 an hour in it. Bottom line is if you take a little more effort in maintenance on anything your going to get longer and better service out of it. I have to disagree with you on mowers giving problems at a certain amount of hours. I have alot of friends that are in this business and I can tell you that there are some of them that i would buy their machines with 1500 hours on them rather than the other guys with 300 hours just becasue I know how they take care fo their equipment. One friend has equipment with very low hours that looks like you drove it off a cliff. The other guy spends a little more money and time maintaining his equipment therefore when he sells his used equipment he gets top dollar. The other guy can't give his low hour stuff away. To me its alot bigger picture than just saving a little money. I am really expecting alot more than 900 hours out of my mowers engine. It hard to make money when your expecting to pay 10.00 an hour plus fuel costs to operate.

i'm just saying thats what most of the dealers are telling me. i've been in the business 4 years now. my first mower was a 36" exmark metro. after a year in the business i had the chance to buy a guys 52" exmark tthp with stand on, bagger and stripe kit. it had 400 hours on it. before i bought i talked to my dealers and they said keep in mind around 900 hours is when things could start to need work or replaced.

late last season i traded that in and got a brand new 52" toro grandstand. it currently has 170 hours on it.

i'll keep my equipment as long as i can as long it's productive. but i will keep putting the napa oil in it because i don't agree the more expensive oil will get me that much more time out of my equipment.

This is also the reason some guys have really high operating costs per hour. If you're ditching your mowers after only 900 hours or needlessly replacing them every 2 years regardless of hours then you constantly have high dollar costs per hour just for mowers.

I expect my Dixie to go to at least 4,000 hours before I think about replacement. I paid $4500 for it with 29 hours on it. Cost per hour... $1.125.
I have spent literally nothing on repairs. 1 throttle cable and a muffler. And it has 1150 hours on it.

i'm not ditching my mowers after 900 hours or replacing them every 2 years. i plan on keeping my equipment as long as its productive.

but i do not agree that these more expensive brands of oil will get me that much more out of my equipment.

Grubrunner
06-21-2010, 09:54 AM
Richard Martin,

The first link of oil comparisons is done by MotorOilEvaluator.com of pretty much every grade/weight/viscosity of oil you can think of from just about every oil manufacturer you can think of. You can clearly see by the conclusion of all the rankings/ratings/results that Amsoil doesn't come out on top on every single catagory.... far from it.

My suggestion would be to select the grade/viscosity you use on whatever applications it's for, and work off the rankings based on availabilty, price, budget... etc.

The second is a comparison of motorcycle oils which you may find interesting.

You can read whether "the data and information provided on this site is skewed in favor of the sponsors of the site" MotorOilEvaluator.com at THIS (http://members.themotoroilevaluator.com/index.php?id=190) link. I recommend reading the whole thing when you get the opportunity.

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1995916/data-comparisons3-1-pdf-june-21-2010-8-03-am-1-0-meg?da=y

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1995915/motorcycle-oil-study-1-pdf-june-21-2010-8-03-am-3-5-meg?da=y

If you like, I'd be more than happy to post a couple of personal experiences of my own with Amsoil and why I hold them in high regard.

mbrew,

I used Pennzoil for many, many years prior to switching over to Amsoil about six years ago. Never had any issues whatsoever.

I agree wholeheartedly with your remark "The blends of oils are much more sophisticated now than they were when in the early days." No arguements from me on that.

yardguy28,

That's fine, as you should [almost] always go with your dealer's and/or manufacturer's recommendations. Not only for warranty purposes but the equipment's builder [almost] always knows what's best for their product. I was just presenting some alternatives/options.

Of course, there's always a flip-side to that coin. Manufacturers are [almost] always in bed - for lack of a better term - with other manufacturers [sponsors] for parts and/or service for their products. It's what pays the bills and builds a profit margin. Nature of the beast.

Anyway....

However, you contradict yourself here when you say: "as long as my equipment runs and starts up when i need it to [B]i don't care brand it is. if the manual says 10w 30, whatever brand is fine for me."

Didn'y you earlier say: "as for the stihl equipment. i am just going by what the dealer is telling me. i trust my dealers. a lot more than i would trust anyone on this website."

If you don't care & and whatever brand is fine for you, why then are you going with what the dealer is telling [recommending] you... ???

Hmmmmm.....

MikeKle
06-21-2010, 10:27 AM
Is there any studies that show the cheap "store brand" oil is as good or the same as name brand oil? Ive heard both arguments from different people, but most say they are really all the same?

Richard Martin
06-21-2010, 12:12 PM
Richard Martin,

The first link of oil comparisons is done by MotorOilEvaluator.com of pretty much every grade/weight/viscosity of oil you can think of from just about every oil manufacturer you can think of. You can clearly see by the conclusion of all the rankings/ratings/results that Amsoil doesn't come out on top on every single catagory.... far from it.

My suggestion would be to select the grade/viscosity you use on whatever applications it's for, and work off the rankings based on availabilty, price, budget... etc.

The second is a comparison of motorcycle oils which you may find interesting.

You can read whether "the data and information provided on this site is skewed in favor of the sponsors of the site" MotorOilEvaluator.com at THIS (http://members.themotoroilevaluator.com/index.php?id=190) link. I recommend reading the whole thing when you get the opportunity.

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1995916/data-comparisons3-1-pdf-june-21-2010-8-03-am-1-0-meg?da=y

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1995915/motorcycle-oil-study-1-pdf-june-21-2010-8-03-am-3-5-meg?da=y

If you like, I'd be more than happy to post a couple of personal experiences of my own with Amsoil and why I hold them in high regard.

Okay again. I'd like to see some independent testing. Fill one engine with synthetic and another with dino and let's see if synthetic makes the engine last longer. The website you provided uses the manufacturers publicly available data. And in some cases the manuracturer didn't provide the data and the website author subsituted the standards data in it's place.

yardguy28
06-21-2010, 04:57 PM
Richard Martin,

The first link of oil comparisons is done by MotorOilEvaluator.com of pretty much every grade/weight/viscosity of oil you can think of from just about every oil manufacturer you can think of. You can clearly see by the conclusion of all the rankings/ratings/results that Amsoil doesn't come out on top on every single catagory.... far from it.

My suggestion would be to select the grade/viscosity you use on whatever applications it's for, and work off the rankings based on availabilty, price, budget... etc.

The second is a comparison of motorcycle oils which you may find interesting.

You can read whether "the data and information provided on this site is skewed in favor of the sponsors of the site" MotorOilEvaluator.com at THIS (http://members.themotoroilevaluator.com/index.php?id=190) link. I recommend reading the whole thing when you get the opportunity.

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1995916/data-comparisons3-1-pdf-june-21-2010-8-03-am-1-0-meg?da=y

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1995915/motorcycle-oil-study-1-pdf-june-21-2010-8-03-am-3-5-meg?da=y

If you like, I'd be more than happy to post a couple of personal experiences of my own with Amsoil and why I hold them in high regard.

mbrew,

I used Pennzoil for many, many years prior to switching over to Amsoil about six years ago. Never had any issues whatsoever.

I agree wholeheartedly with your remark "The blends of oils are much more sophisticated now than they were when in the early days." No arguements from me on that.

yardguy28,

That's fine, as you should [almost] always go with your dealer's and/or manufacturer's recommendations. Not only for warranty purposes but the equipment's builder [almost] always knows what's best for their product. I was just presenting some alternatives/options.

Of course, there's always a flip-side to that coin. Manufacturers are [almost] always in bed - for lack of a better term - with other manufacturers [sponsors] for parts and/or service for their products. It's what pays the bills and builds a profit margin. Nature of the beast.

Anyway....

However, you contradict yourself here when you say: "as long as my equipment runs and starts up when i need it to [B]i don't care brand it is. if the manual says 10w 30, whatever brand is fine for me."

Didn'y you earlier say: "as for the stihl equipment. i am just going by what the dealer is telling me. i trust my dealers. a lot more than i would trust anyone on this website."

If you don't care & and whatever brand is fine for you, why then are you going with what the dealer is telling [recommending] you... ???

Hmmmmm.....

yes written that way i did contradict myself very badly.

if you actually read a stihl manual it recommends stihl brand oil or equelivent of as well.

up until a month ago i was just getting my mix oil from lowes. but i've had my trimmer in twice because it was acting funny and the guy always cleaned the muffler screen. my dealer told me if i run the throttle wide open all the time which i have since the dealer told me i wouldn't have that screen getting dirty. i thought maybe the oil was causing it so i've switched to see if that will help. i also was told my the dealer the trimmer i just purchased fs70 requires at least partially synthetic oil. i don't think the lowes stuff i bought is partially synthetic. so rather than have different gas cans with different mixes i'd rather just have the same for all my stihl equipment.

sorry for rambliing and thank you for listening......:rolleyes:

John_99_2007
06-21-2010, 05:27 PM
I think you're all wasting a lot of time here.
When's the last time anyone has ever lost a machine because of an oil brand?

Grubrunner
06-21-2010, 08:06 PM
I think you're all wasting a lot of time here.
When's the last time anyone has ever lost a machine because of an oil brand?

Very fair point.

However, engines blow, break down and go out of whack all the time [I've personally had at least one-half dozen crap em' selves over the years on various "machines"].... People of lose machines for various reasons relating to engine issues. How do we know for certain whether it's because of "ordinary" oil being used that's contributed to it..... or not?

I'm sure you're aware what an engine oil's primary function is, to post a quote --

The biggest responsibility of any oil is to form a layer between metal surfaces of various engine parts, in a transmission or in the differentials. This layer is what provides the lubrication characteristics of any oil.

Oil serves as a sealant, filling the microscopic ridges and valleys found in any metal surface, increasing the engine's efficiency.

Oil must serve as a cleaning function, carrying away dirt or other debris which damages bearings or other parts which operate in tight tolerances. Debris is removed through the engine oil filter or the transmission filter.

Oil uses detergent additives to combat combustion by-products. Burning gasoline (or diesel fuel) produces acids, moisture, soda, ash and other contaminants. The detergent fights these by-products, inhibiting their buildup as sludge, varnishes, etc.

Oil is a tremendous coolant. In the engine, the oil cools the underside of the pistons, valve springs, camshaft, rods, crankshaft and bearings. The oil picks up the heat from the combustion of fuel, as well as friction, and takes it away (no matter how good the oil may be, there is always friction). The volume of the oil in the crankcase helps transfer the heat, but where a car/truck is used in high temperature climates, for hauling trailers or heavy loads, an engine oil cooler is sometimes recommended.

Now, given an engine oil's task/function, surely you must agree that brand "A" could quite possibly do a better and more efficient job that brand "B" in lubricating, cleaning, cooling and maintaining an engine at its optimal operating zone, correct?

This is my entire point: Why spend $10K [or more than likely more] on a commercial ZTR [or any other commercial equipment] then go ahead and pour a can of $3.00 oil into it? WTF?

IMHO, that action alone defies the principles of common sense.

But hey, like I often whistle, to each their own.

STIHL GUY
06-21-2010, 08:29 PM
i use penzoil 10W30 for my mower

yardguy28
06-21-2010, 08:57 PM
Very fair point.

However, engines blow, break down and go out of whack all the time [I've personally had at least one-half dozen crap em' selves over the years on various "machines"].... People of lose machines for various reasons relating to engine issues. How do we know for certain whether it's because of "ordinary" oil being used that's contributed to it..... or not?

I'm sure you're aware what an engine oil's primary function is, to post a quote --



Now, given an engine oil's task/function, surely you must agree that brand "A" could quite possibly do a better and more efficient job that brand "B" in lubricating, cleaning, cooling and maintaining an engine at its optimal operating zone, correct?

This is my entire point: Why spend $10K [or more than likely more] on a commercial ZTR [or any other commercial equipment] then go ahead and pour a can of $3.00 oil into it? WTF?

IMHO, that action alone defies the principles of common sense.

But hey, like I often whistle, to each their own.

because it's not like brand "A" will get you years more out your machine than using brand "B".

mbrew
06-21-2010, 09:07 PM
......Now, given an engine oil's task/function, surely you must agree that brand "A" could quite possibly do a better and more efficient job that brand "B" in lubricating, cleaning, cooling and maintaining an engine at its optimal operating zone, correct?

This is my entire point: Why spend $10K [or more than likely more] on a commercial ZTR [or any other commercial equipment] then go ahead and pour a can of $3.00 oil into it? WTF?

IMHO, that action alone defies the principles of common sense.......

I would agree that its within the realm of possibility that brand a can perform better than brand b, what I won't agree with is that brand a is represented by Amsoil or for that matter any other brand without double blind field tests under operating conditions. Common sense is indeed uncommon

John_99_2007
06-21-2010, 09:09 PM
Grubrunner-
Good points, but I'm not saying "A" is the same as "B".
I'm saying they are both exceed any needs your engine has.

John_99_2007
06-21-2010, 09:22 PM
they both exceed

Grubrunner
06-21-2010, 11:19 PM
I would agree that its within the realm of possibility that brand a can perform better than brand b, what I won't agree with is that brand a is represented by Amsoil or for that matter any other brand without double blind field tests under operating conditions. Common sense is indeed uncommon

Fair enough.

My thought/views/opinions are based on personal experiences with Amsoil versus conventional [for lack of a better word] oils. I won't for a minute claim I've used all the different oils on the market, however, I've used many of the top brands over the years on engines in muscle cars, sports cars, ATV's, motor bikes, ZTR's... etc and, while some were damn good, none compare to Amsoil IMHO.

I double blinded "real-world" test on the top engine oils performed by a recognized lab that's not affiliated with any oil company would be ideal, I agree..... but so would me picking the correct Mega Millions' number on Friday night. I've yet to see such a test performed, but would love to see one if somebody can provide it.

Let's just agree to disagree as I'm begining to feel we're on a merry-go-round here.

BTW, very true on your ending sentence.

JohnBanks
06-21-2010, 11:37 PM
Amsoil in my Audi and in my Mowers last 40 to 100% longer then other oils. Specifically in my Audi it won't sludge out because that car runs very hot with the turbo and in my old John Deeres it would run for 50 to 70 hours before burning off where John Deere's oil would run maybe 40. It is good stuff.

John_99_2007
06-21-2010, 11:43 PM
So it lasts 50% longer and cost 100% more. Let me get my calculator........

Grubrunner
06-21-2010, 11:46 PM
So it lasts 50% longer and cost 100% more. Let me get my calculator........

It really isn't as expensive as people who haven't used it think, John.

Better yet, become an Amsoil dealer and you'll see it's nowhere near the expense many think it is.

John_99_2007
06-21-2010, 11:57 PM
My point isn't what the exact price is.
You can worry about picking the perfect oil from a group of all perfectly good choices,
or you can worry about things that would actually help your business.

John_99_2007
06-22-2010, 12:01 AM
Not saying there isn't some crap out there. But once you find a jug of name brand oil at a good price, stop thinking and grab a beer.

cjp
06-22-2010, 12:30 AM
Not saying there isn't some crap out there. But once you find a jug of name brand oil at a good price, stop thinking and grab a beer.

I ran into local retired small engines mechanic that owned his own shop for 30 yrs and he said the only oil he has ever run in a air cooled small engine is the same oil they run in airplanes .He said that the oil will not breakdown till around 800 degrees ,and will allow the engine to run cooler and the power will increase a little.So I thought I would try it and have been through two oil changes and the motor runs a lot cooler and seems to have a little more power,and the oil looks new when you drain it .
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Grasscape Inc
06-22-2010, 08:05 AM
I know Mobil 1 took the phosphoras and zinc out of most of their oils, anyone left it in? Amsoil, redline, royal purple, rotella?

mbrew
06-22-2010, 09:09 AM
Fair enough.

My thought/views/opinions are based on personal experiences with Amsoil versus conventional [for lack of a better word] oils. I won't for a minute claim I've used all the different oils on the market, however, I've used many of the top brands over the years on engines in muscle cars, sports cars, ATV's, motor bikes, ZTR's... etc and, while some were damn good, none compare to Amsoil IMHO.

I double blinded "real-world" test on the top engine oils performed by a recognized lab that's not affiliated with any oil company would be ideal, I agree..... but so would me picking the correct Mega Millions' number on Friday night. I've yet to see such a test performed, but would love to see one if somebody can provide it.

Let's just agree to disagree as I'm begining to feel we're on a merry-go-round here.

BTW, very true on your ending sentence.

I'm willing to agree to disagree, but there's a couple of things I won't back off of. A later post leads me to believe that you are an Amsoil dealer. Is that correct? If it is, that fact should be declared in every statement you make about the product so that your bias is known. You've made statements that based on your personal experience that Amsoil is a great product. What led you to believe that? Did you tear down your engines and do wear analysis? Did you have oil samples tested at a lab? If you simply stopped using one product in your engines and started using another without some type of baseline and measurements, there's nothing objective that can be determined from that. If it gave you a warm fuzzy I'm happy for you, but it doesn't prove much.

For the record, I have nothing against Amsoil other than their marketing methods. As far as I'm concerned it may well be and probably is a good engine oil, but I get tired of seeing Amsoil dealers on every board I participate in make claims that they can't substantiate about the product without using data that in one way or another leads back to the company.

For the record, I'm an aircraft mechanic with 30 years of experience, I ran automotive shops for Exxon for 8 years (Superflo is good oil too, but I don't use it) and I'm much more likely to fix my machinery than replace it. The ages and mileage of my machinery is listed somewhere in this thread.

John_99_2007
06-22-2010, 09:22 AM
I ran into local retired small engines mechanic that owned his own shop for 30 yrs and he said the only oil he has ever run in a air cooled small engine is the same oil they run in airplanes .He said that the oil will not breakdown till around 800 degrees ,and will allow the engine to run cooler and the power will increase a little.So I thought I would try it and have been through two oil changes and the motor runs a lot cooler and seems to have a little more power,and the oil looks new when you drain it .
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First, this is not proof, this is a story about an old mechanic.
Second, have you ever noticed your car FEELS faster after an oil change and wash?
Third, airplane engines run cooler than mowers.

cjp
06-22-2010, 05:16 PM
First, this is not proof, this is a story about an old mechanic.
Second, have you ever noticed your car FEELS faster after an oil change and wash?
Third, airplane engines run cooler than mowers.

I wonder why an airplane engine runs cooler? And by the way he's not the only person who has told me that either.
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John_99_2007
06-22-2010, 06:34 PM
Move an air cooled engine through the air at 100-200 mph and it stays pretty cool. In some situations pilots need to prevent over-cooling an engine (called shock-cooling).
So even though it sounds impressive to say "we use oil from airplanes" it really means nothing.

IOWA GUY
06-22-2010, 06:34 PM
I wonder why an airplane engine runs cooler? And by the way he's not the only person who has told me that either.
Posted via Mobile Device
An airplane moves at 100+ mph and your mower moves at less than 10 mph.

cjp
06-22-2010, 06:58 PM
Move an air cooled engine through the air at 100-200 mph and it stays pretty cool. In some situations pilots need to prevent over-cooling an engine (called shock-cooling).
So even though it sounds impressive to say "we use oil from airplanes" it really means nothing.
Since you know alot can you tell me at what temp an air cooled
air plane engine is supposed to run ?
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John_99_2007
06-22-2010, 08:16 PM
Less than 200 F

yardguy28
06-22-2010, 08:23 PM
this thread goes to show you......just like everyone has there preference in equipment brands they have there preference in oil. and the same comments are made about both. this brand is the best or that brand is the best........

use what you like and don't worry about what others tell you or say........

HighGrass
06-22-2010, 11:33 PM
Move an air cooled engine through the air at 100-200 mph and it stays pretty cool. In some situations pilots need to prevent over-cooling an engine (called shock-cooling).
So even though it sounds impressive to say "we use oil from airplanes" it really means nothing.

Very rare event. Only occurs when you're at cruise or climb, power is brought to idle and the nose is pushed over. I have over 2000hrs and never ever been in a situation where it was an issue.

John_99_2007
06-23-2010, 11:06 AM
That's why I said "some situations"

John_99_2007
06-23-2010, 11:25 AM
My point was it just doesn't matter that an old mechanic likes airplane oil.
Any clean, name brand oil that meets the requirement of your engine's owners manual will exceed any needs of your engines.
Internal engine components are not the weak link of modern lawn mowers.