PDA

View Full Version : John Deere vs Exmark Commerical Zero Turn


jlcrss
06-23-2010, 04:16 PM
I am looking at the 920a John Deere 26 KAW with a 54 inch deck but I am also not ruling out the Exmark line. What are the general thoughts over the two. I am not even considering scag. I am looking for the best cut/stripe. I want a mower that handle the tall grass and hills and not bog down. Also want something reliable that will last. I also plan on putting on a collection system so power is important. Thanks Jon

albhb3
06-23-2010, 04:42 PM
exmark and toro are built by the same company JD seem to cost more for parts"that dang green paint" the best you could do is go and demo each of the perspective mowers out there

Grasscape Inc
06-23-2010, 04:48 PM
When you get up around $8500+ they are all great...Demo to see what works best for you and your needs and conditions.

It's hard to beat the Exmark XS series overall, but man are they pricey...

jlcrss
06-23-2010, 05:15 PM
I got the 925a coming next week to demo. The exmarks are nice too but I have been hearing a lot of good things about the new z900 series from deere. I am currently mowing with the 717a and its underpowered for what I have been doing. Plus only having a 48 inch deck sucks because the deck is the same width as the machine. Makes it hard for trimming. I really like the 3 year warranty exmark is offering.

mowerbrad
06-23-2010, 08:11 PM
Get a JD 925, its got the 27hp engine as opposed to the 26hp on the 920. The 27hp will be nice for when you have the bagging system on. The JD bagging system is awesome but like any other system, it requires some serious power. The 925 is an awesome mower.

Best to go demo each brand and see which one you like best.

jlcrss
06-23-2010, 08:28 PM
Get a JD 925, its got the 27hp engine as opposed to the 26hp on the 920. The 27hp will be nice for when you have the bagging system on. The JD bagging system is awesome but like any other system, it requires some serious power. The 925 is an awesome mower.

Best to go demo each brand and see which one you like best.

Is that one hp worth the extra 500 bucks?

Grubrunner
06-23-2010, 08:31 PM
Is that one hp worth the extra 500 bucks?

Are they the same engine manufacturer?

If so, then you certainly will not see a $500 improvement in 1HP in any area.

Hold onto the $500 and get yourself some other piece of equipment or an add-on for the mower.

jlcrss
06-23-2010, 08:46 PM
Both the 26 and 27 are Kaws
Posted via Mobile Device

Grubrunner
06-23-2010, 09:01 PM
I don't know the 26HP Kaw but the 27HP Kaw is an animal.

A guy I know has a recently purchased Scag Turf Tiger™ 61" Velocity Plus™ ZTR running a bagger powered by the 27HP Kawasaki liquid-cooled and swears by it in every way.

He only has about 35HRS on it thus far but just about all his commercial work is large properties with hills and dips. Never had a bogging or clogging issue thus far.

His only drawback is it can get thirsty he says.

jlcrss
06-23-2010, 09:30 PM
Im running a 19kaw in the 717a and it sips gas. I used 2.5 gallons after mowing non stop for 4 hours.

Raymond S.
06-23-2010, 10:23 PM
I have a 2010 Next Lazer 60" 29hp Kaw w/ bagger. If I had to do over again I'd get the 35hp Briggs. The 29 is a bit sluggish when I get in thick grass. Lacking on power results in more difficulty keeping straight lines. Call me crazy, but for me when the engine rpms fall you have to slow down to maintain a good clean cut while bagging and every move with the sticks is exaggerated. The reason I didn't get the 35briggs is I thought it would be thirsty. Well my 29Kaw is thirsty too...just my .02.

meets1
06-23-2010, 10:59 PM
I did demo the new deere ( so john deere guys or dealers on here - it was out of town) I just bought another Exmark. I like the cut, the way you sit in the seat, the feel of controls etc. they were each fitted with a 26 and 27 kawa engine - I mowed a few lush lawns, mowed an open lot that was about 12 - 24 inches tall - they both struggled a bit in the tall stuff but over all I went with exmark.

tacoma200
06-23-2010, 11:06 PM
Very close in my book. I think the exmark has an edge on steep area's and a slightly better cut under normal conditions. I think the 7 irons do better in wet grass. Exmark may have a longer warranty (3 yrs com 5 yrs res).
Posted via Mobile Device

jlcrss
06-23-2010, 11:09 PM
Very close in my book. I think the exmark has an edge on steep area's and a slightly better cut under normal conditions. I think the 7 irons do better in wet grass. Exmark may have a longer warranty (3 yrs com 5 yrs res).
Posted via Mobile Device


I can't wait to demo these things so I can stop wondering and move on to something else to worry about.

Grubrunner
06-24-2010, 12:21 AM
....... mowed an open lot that was about 12 - 24 inches tall - they both struggled a bit in the tall stuff.....

There's not a mower on the market that wouldn't "struggle" under those demanding conditions.

Grubrunner
06-24-2010, 12:22 AM
I have a 2010 Next Lazer 60" 29hp Kaw w/ bagger. If I had to do over again I'd get the 35hp Briggs. The 29 is a bit sluggish when I get in thick grass. Lacking on power results in more difficulty keeping straight lines. Call me crazy, but for me when the engine rpms fall you have to slow down to maintain a good clean cut while bagging and every move with the sticks is exaggerated. The reason I didn't get the 35briggs is I thought it would be thirsty. Well my 29Kaw is thirsty too...just my .02.

I always do this when I'm bagging to maintain a quality cut.... always!

Grasscape Inc
06-24-2010, 02:33 AM
Theres no replacement for displacement


Get the biggest engine you can afford and fuel

zo6
06-24-2010, 05:45 AM
Jd's are garbage, no cut quality, overpriced, and they nickel and dime ya to death, if you want stripes right off the show room floor without the fake look you get from a striping kit, buy a bobcat, next on my list would be exmark.. If you want the nicest stripes from a stock mower

mnglocker
06-24-2010, 09:55 AM
Is that one hp worth the extra 500 bucks?

Theres no replacement for displacement


Get the biggest engine you can afford and fuel

Exactly, you're not paying for HP, you're paying for cubic inches.

Jd's are garbage, no cut quality, overpriced, and they nickel and dime ya to death, if you want stripes right off the show room floor without the fake look you get from a striping kit, buy a bobcat, next on my list would be exmark.. If you want the nicest stripes from a stock mower

Have you ran a JD before? The cut quality is one of the best in the business, especially on northern grasses. I demoed a JD920a and it layed stripes like it was a paint brush on grass. All though, Bobcats do lay awsome stripes too.

jlcrss
06-24-2010, 07:26 PM
Exactly, you're not paying for HP, you're paying for cubic inches.



So you get more cubic inches....what does this equate to other than one more HP?

SCAG POWER
06-24-2010, 07:48 PM
Wat to cut high Grass..................Try one of the big gun Ferris mowers. Buddy of my has one . He lives on 5 acres and this thing just eats tha grass up. He let me on it one day.................. had to run out of gas too get me off. Then my helper got on it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,some time today i would like to leave since we are done................. So the helper say when we getting a ferris. I said you making the payments..................

Have a deere now . Woiuld not own any more john deere products. I think may be Exmark............... But then i think Ferris with a big engine and start bagging grass................... Who knows Need a fantasy 5 hit to get any thing...................

jlcrss
06-24-2010, 07:59 PM
Wat to cut high Grass..................Try one of the big gun Ferris mowers. Buddy of my has one . He lives on 5 acres and this thing just eats tha grass up. He let me on it one day.................. had to run out of gas too get me off. Then my helper got on it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,some time today i would like to leave since we are done................. So the helper say when we getting a ferris. I said you making the payments..................

Have a deere now . Woiuld not own any more john deere products. I think may be Exmark............... But then i think Ferris with a big engine and start bagging grass................... Who knows Need a fantasy 5 hit to get any thing...................

I think its funny your name says scag power but you drive a deere.
Posted via Mobile Device

Darryl G
06-24-2010, 08:03 PM
I watched a guy cutting with the 72 inch Ferris with the Cat diesel a few years back. I had met him at the dealer while waiting in line and he invited me to watch him demo the thing on his lawn...he was a homeowner not a LCO. And he was an engineer and a really interesting guy and liked that the Cat was naturally aspirated...he had researched what mower to buy to death. Anyway, he had equipped the thing with a 5 point harness and ran the thing flat out flying. It was quite a sight to see...seemed like he was doing 15mph, grass flying all over and a big grin on his face, lol.

Sorry, didn't mean to get off topic.

jlcrss
06-24-2010, 08:07 PM
Well I am demo'ing the 925a on Monday. Wednesday if the demo goes good I am gonna get the 925a with the MOD deck. I am pretty stoked to get this mower. I talked to some municipal workers who had a 930a on the back of their trailer. They were mowing 12inch high grass on and they said it was a beast. I am pretty happy about the z900 series. The real test will be Monday.

mowerbrad
06-24-2010, 08:47 PM
Well I am demo'ing the 925a on Monday. Wednesday if the demo goes good I am gonna get the 925a with the MOD deck. I am pretty stoked to get this mower. I talked to some municipal workers who had a 930a on the back of their trailer. They were mowing 12inch high grass on and they said it was a beast. I am pretty happy about the z900 series. The real test will be Monday.

The 925 with MOD deck, is one heck of a mower....I own one....I couldn't be more pleased with it. You will not be dissappointed.

jlcrss
06-24-2010, 08:51 PM
The 925 with MOD deck, is one heck of a mower....I own one....I couldn't be more pleased with it. You will not be dissappointed.

Good to know. Hey your not too far away how about you bring it over and let me take it for a spin on about 15 jobs. :laugh:

mowerbrad
06-24-2010, 09:03 PM
Good to know. Hey your not too far away how about you bring it over and let me take it for a spin on about 15 jobs. :laugh:

Well if you want to pay me to come over...I'll gladly let you take it for a spin for a day. :)

Coumbe
06-24-2010, 09:11 PM
Scag is FAR better than John Deere.

jlcrss
06-24-2010, 09:22 PM
Scag is FAR better than John Deere.

I know two people with scags and they both use coolant like crazy.
Posted via Mobile Device

FastMan
06-24-2010, 10:10 PM
Brad, are the baffles set up different in the MOD deck?

LawnCareNoobie
06-24-2010, 10:43 PM
Very close in my book. I think the exmark has an edge on steep area's and a slightly better cut under normal conditions. I think the 7 irons do better in wet grass. Exmark may have a longer warranty (3 yrs com 5 yrs res).
Posted via Mobile Device

You sure? The 900's are supposed to be suburb on steep areas. Good traction from what I've heard.

mnglocker
06-24-2010, 10:50 PM
So you get more cubic inches....what does this equate to other than one more HP?

Torque, the figure that realy makes a difference.

meets1
06-24-2010, 11:32 PM
Buddy demoed one today. I have 4 exmarks all gas. The newest being used today where I put 8.7 hours on the machine. We ran side by side this evening - nice neighbor grass that got cut for free - exmark hands down on the kentucky blue grass - then went next door to an open lot that was about 2ft tall give or take - did not put the decks down - I shot grass a whole lot further and not really bogged down much where his deere didn't get rid of the grass as well but the cut in those conditions where about the same.

Needless to say he is a farmer that bleeds green but he wanted to "race" me in the mowing world. We had a laugh and at the end of this evening - we both feel we have the better mower!

mowerbrad
06-25-2010, 12:20 AM
Brad, are the baffles set up different in the MOD deck?

The baffles are a little different on the MOD. I would consider the MOD to be more "cluttered" underneath the deck than the standard PRO series decks. The front baffles tuck in very nicely to the front which makes for a pretty smooth surface leading toward the discharge chute. The rear baffles are a little more obstructive but can be adjusted slightly to create better flow for discharging or create a more closed mulching system.

The performance difference typically will be noticed in heavy growth (ie, cutting 9" tall grass or taller) or really wet conditions. You will notice slightly more clumping than the PRO deck in wet conditions, not bad though when maintaining a proper speed and cutting height.

zo6
06-25-2010, 01:06 AM
exactly, you're not paying for hp, you're paying for cubic inches.



Have you ran a jd before? The cut quality is one of the best in the business, especially on northern grasses. I demoed a jd920a and it layed stripes like it was a paint brush on grass. All though, bobcats do lay awsome stripes too.

ya ive run them, just didnt like them at all, no where near as easy to move around in tight areas, semmed very bulky, i guess its just personnel preference, but there must be a reason 75 % of all guys(around here anyway) run bobcats.

FastMan
06-25-2010, 07:18 PM
The baffles are a little different on the MOD. I would consider the MOD to be more "cluttered" underneath the deck than the standard PRO series decks. The front baffles tuck in very nicely to the front which makes for a pretty smooth surface leading toward the discharge chute. The rear baffles are a little more obstructive but can be adjusted slightly to create better flow for discharging or create a more closed mulching system.

The performance difference typically will be noticed in heavy growth (ie, cutting 9" tall grass or taller) or really wet conditions. You will notice slightly more clumping than the PRO deck in wet conditions, not bad though when maintaining a proper speed and cutting height.

Thanks for the info, Brad. Good to know.

jlcrss
06-29-2010, 11:15 AM
We'll just an update. I mowed yesterday with the 925a 60 inch deck. The machine worked flawlessly. The demo I used had dull blades and the deck wheels weren't setup right but I took care of that myself. It striped very nicely. The only problem is now I don't want the 54 inch deck so I am buying a 930a with 60inch MOD.

1wildcatfan
06-29-2010, 06:43 PM
who makes the JD ZTR's?

jlcrss
06-29-2010, 06:52 PM
who makes the JD ZTR's?

Craftsman
Posted via Mobile Device

JDeereZman
06-29-2010, 11:15 PM
Craftsman
Posted via Mobile Device

John Derre's ZTR's are built by John Derre at the John Deere Turfcare facility in Fuquay Varina,NC

JDeereZman
06-29-2010, 11:19 PM
John Derre's ZTR's are built by John Derre at the John Deere Turfcare facility in Fuquay Varina,NC

LOL. I mispelled Deere twice. Long day today.

Lawn by Deere
06-29-2010, 11:57 PM
Craftsman
Posted via Mobile Device

It's misinformation like this that ruins everything.........









everyone knows Murray builds Deere stuff :laugh:

jlcrss
06-30-2010, 08:41 AM
It's misinformation like this that ruins everything.........









everyone knows Murray builds Deere stuff :laugh:


Thats funny.

I mowed a few more lawns last night. One lawn was very plush and I was cutting about an inch off of it. With the MOD engaged I left a trail at the chute. If I opened the deck it dispersed the clipping. I think I need to adjust the deck to that it doesn't leave that trail and life would be good. On another lawn I mowed foot tall grass and that thing was a beast. It never bogged down and it threw grass everywhere.

James2000
08-24-2010, 06:16 PM
I also looked at the JD 920A today and was very impressed with the handling. The dealer said it was hand made right here in NC all except the mower. Sounded good. Would have bought until I looked at the front end arm and it had CHINA stamped on it (what other parts are made in CHINA?). I feel that it may be the best mower out but I am stopping my support of this crap. Went down and bought the SCAG instead. Maybe I am dumb but I am trying to help this weak ass country.

JDeereZman
08-24-2010, 09:44 PM
I also looked at the JD 920A today and was very impressed with the handling. The dealer said it was hand made right here in NC all except the mower. Sounded good. Would have bought until I looked at the front end arm and it had CHINA stamped on it (what other parts are made in CHINA?). I feel that it may be the best mower out but I am stopping my support of this crap. Went down and bought the SCAG instead. Maybe I am dumb but I am trying to help this weak ass country.

The whole machine is made in NC, Fuquay Varina to be exact. Those front caster arms are not made in China. NOTHING on that machine is made in China. Nothing is stamped on those caster arms, least of all the word...China. I'm getting so tired of this crap.

James2000
08-24-2010, 10:39 PM
Take a look at the L side cast iron arm on the JD 920A. Maybe the large letters that read CHINA mean something else. If I was JD I would use some other lettering to identify my parts. Maybe the brand new ones have outsourced parts? All I know is that is what I and a my son read today.

JDeereZman
08-24-2010, 10:54 PM
Take a look at the L side cast iron arm on the JD 920A. Maybe the large letters that read CHINA mean something else. If I was JD I would use some other lettering to identify my parts. Maybe the brand new ones have outsourced parts? All I know is that is what I and a my son read today.

Well I work at the factory in Fuquay Varina and I have handled quite a few of these and I have never seen anything resembling the word "China" or anything else stamped on it for that matter. The caster arms are made at a foundry in very close proximity to North Carolina. None are outsourced to anyone else. We reject these parts on the line if there is so much as a paint chip on it. There is no way "China" was stamped on that caster arm.

JDeereZman
08-24-2010, 10:57 PM
Take a look at the L side cast iron arm on the JD 920A. Maybe the large letters that read CHINA mean something else. If I was JD I would use some other lettering to identify my parts. Maybe the brand new ones have outsourced parts? All I know is that is what I and a my son read today.

You are in midstate NC? What was the dealership you saw this at? I would like to ride by there and see it for myself no matter how far it is to get there.

James2000
08-24-2010, 10:58 PM
Wish I could get a picture for you. Too far to travel. Was at a James River dealer here in NC. Anyway, bought the SCAG

JDeereZman
08-24-2010, 11:00 PM
Wish I could get a picture for you. Too far to travel. Was at a James River dealer here in NC. Anyway, bought the SCAG

Yeah I saw last week your post where you said you were going to buy a Scag. What is the name of the dealership?

Grubrunner
08-25-2010, 12:37 AM
John Derre's ZTR's are built by John Derre at the John Deere Turfcare facility in Fuquay Varina,NC

Correct.

In fact, JD manufactures ALL their riding mowers [commercial or residential].

Johnny test
08-25-2010, 07:36 AM
Deere... .

JDeereZman
08-25-2010, 06:56 PM
Well I work at the factory in Fuquay Varina and I have handled quite a few of these and I have never seen anything resembling the word "China" or anything else stamped on it for that matter. The caster arms are made at a foundry in very close proximity to North Carolina. None are outsourced to anyone else. We reject these parts on the line if there is so much as a paint chip on it. There is no way "China" was stamped on that caster arm.

Well when I am wrong I am wrong and have to admit it. I looked at these today and yes some caster arms do have the word "China" stamped on it along with the part number. I have just never noticed it. The Z800 series did not have that for sure because I know the supplier that made those. Whether this is the same supplier or not I am not sure. Whether these are cast in China and then finished here I am not sure and it doesn't really matter. These machines ARE completely assembled in the USA in Fuquay Varina,NC. Some of our suppliers may get components for the parts that they supply us from China or other countries overseas. I do know that for logistical purposes the huge majority of parts we use come from suppliers as close to us as possible, but some do come from Europe and Asia. Our transmissions are made by Tuff Torq which is owned by Kanzaki, a Japanese company. Are some of the components Tuff Torq uses Made in China? Maybe. Who knows? But the transmission is assembled in Tennessee and final assembly is in North Carolina so it would be incorrect to say these are not American made. And I would bet money that suppliers for Scag, Exmark, Toro and any other commercial mower you want to name has parts or components that suppliers use for parts that come from China or other places overseas. I probably reacted the way I did because of what happened last week. A guy posted on here that John Deere mowers were made by Great Dane and that Deere does not engineer their own equipment and a lot of other BS. He had also said that his JD dealer had urged him to stay away from the JD commercial mowers because they were hard to sell and not dependable. So I searched the other posts this guy had made and it turned out that he was a Scag sales rep. at a Scag dealership. After that Lawnsite removed his post. So to James2000, my apologies. I will try not to jump the gun next time.

Texas Lawn
08-25-2010, 07:04 PM
I dont think there is such thing as a purely made American product anymore. Almost every company gets something overseas.

JDeereZman
08-25-2010, 07:23 PM
I dont think there is such thing as a purely made American product anymore. Almost every company gets something overseas.

I agree. I think that is why on some products you see "Assembled In The USA" and not "Made In The USA" anymore.

parr90
08-25-2010, 07:56 PM
I used to run dixie choppers. I hated their decks. I run all ExMarks now and really like them. I have some old ones and several new ones. The nice Exmarks with the 34hp and nice seats on swivels ride and cut really good. One thing I look at is maintenance. How do these things hold up. I havent ever owned any JD's but I have tested the new ones and they are nice too. I think it boils down to what is your preference and how easy is it to maintain them. I have two full time mechanics and a exmark dealer near by so its not so bad for me. If you run many mowers as much as I then you got to think about how they hold up. I have had good luck overall with the Exmarks. THe new ones dont have as many greese points or belts to worry about either. Once you get used to a certain type its hard to switch.

James2000
08-25-2010, 09:34 PM
Thanks JDeereZman. I am sure that these mowers are great and I was between the two brands as I said. Coin flip would have been fine for me, but I started with the Scag dealer and finished with them.

rmslawns
08-25-2010, 11:46 PM
Once in awhile when you buy a machine, car, mower etc., something will eventually go wrong. I say this for any brand. The bottom line to me always is, specifically a mower, can the service dept fix it and in what amount of time. The most popular engine these days seems to be a Kawasaki...Japanese.

tacoma200
08-26-2010, 12:07 AM
Well when I am wrong I am wrong and have to admit it. I looked at these today and yes some caster arms do have the word "China" stamped on it along with the part number. I have just never noticed it. The Z800 series did not have that for sure because I know the supplier that made those. Whether this is the same supplier or not I am not sure. Whether these are cast in China and then finished here I am not sure and it doesn't really matter. These machines ARE completely assembled in the USA in Fuquay Varina,NC. Some of our suppliers may get components for the parts that they supply us from China or other countries overseas. I do know that for logistical purposes the huge majority of parts we use come from suppliers as close to us as possible, but some do come from Europe and Asia. Our transmissions are made by Tuff Torq which is owned by Kanzaki, a Japanese company. Are some of the components Tuff Torq uses Made in China? Maybe. Who knows? But the transmission is assembled in Tennessee and final assembly is in North Carolina so it would be incorrect to say these are not American made. And I would bet money that suppliers for Scag, Exmark, Toro and any other commercial mower you want to name has parts or components that suppliers use for parts that come from China or other places overseas. I probably reacted the way I did because of what happened last week. A guy posted on here that John Deere mowers were made by Great Dane and that Deere does not engineer their own equipment and a lot of other BS. He had also said that his JD dealer had urged him to stay away from the JD commercial mowers because they were hard to sell and not dependable. So I searched the other posts this guy had made and it turned out that he was a Scag sales rep. at a Scag dealership. After that Lawnsite removed his post. So to James2000, my apologies. I will try not to jump the gun next time.


It's actually hard to buy anything that is 100% made in the USA anymore. That doesn't mean they aren't top notch equipment.

mobileboy
08-26-2010, 12:00 PM
As far as JD reliablity, I am still using a 2004 717A with 2100 hours that cuts and performs flawlessly. Sure, money has been put into the mower (spindles, new carb for the motor, belts), but bottom line = it still leaves a beautiful cut, starts when I turn the key, tracks straight as an arrow, and doesn't loose a drop of fluid. It just plain works.

The only drawback to the JD commercial ZTR's is the weight. This "mini-frame" ZTR weighs 1,150 pounds. That is absurd for a 19hp 48" mower. JD could easily shave hundreds of pounds from these machines. Look at Hustler. If I could have a Hustler mower with JD deck, I (and a whole lot of other LCO's) would never worry about the great mower debate again.

Richard Martin
12-09-2010, 08:57 PM
Whether these are cast in China and then finished here I am not sure and it doesn't really matter. These machines ARE completely assembled in the USA in Fuquay Varina,NC. Are some of the components Tuff Torq uses Made in China? Maybe. Who knows? But the transmission is assembled in Tennessee and final assembly is in North Carolina so it would be incorrect to say these are not American made.

If the assembly is only assembled here of imported parts then it's not American made and you can try to convince yourself that it is all you want. John Deere is no better than Red Hawk and as such, it is off of my list of possible mowers. I only buy American made mowers. I know some components are built overseas but the mower parts (deck, frame etc.) must be made in America for me to buy. There is simply NO EXCUSE to have or purchase foundry made parts overseas. We have excess capacity to make these items in the United States.

JDeereZman
12-09-2010, 09:17 PM
If the assembly is only assembled here of imported parts then it's not American made and you can try to convince yourself that it is all you want. John Deere is no better than Red Hawk and as such, it is off of my list of possible mowers. I only buy American made mowers. I know some components are built overseas but the mower parts (deck, frame etc.) must be made in America for me to buy. There is simply NO EXCUSE to have or purchase foundry made parts overseas. We have excess capacity to make these items in the United States.

I don't need to convince myself of anything. I see our welders using American made steel welding frames made in our factory everyday. The majority of our parts come from suppliers in very close proximity to our factory. The transmissions, fuel tanks, tires....every part on that machine except for the caster forks are made in the USA. Our decks are stamped in Horicon Wisconsin and assembled at our factory. If you don't believe that then that's your problem. The wiring harness is assembled for us by a supplier in the U.S. Do they get resitors, fuses, diodes etc. from China to make that harness? How the hell do I know and nor do I care. As I said every weld you see on a frame and every bolt and nut you see on these machines are assembled in the USA and 98% of the parts come from the USA. It is logistically impossible to just assemble thousands of mowers when all or even most of your parts are imported. You don't want a Deere? Fine. Go get yourself a Murray.

Mow N GO 06
12-10-2010, 12:28 AM
I don't need to convince myself of anything. I see our welders using American made steel welding frames made in our factory everyday. The majority of our parts come from suppliers in very close proximity to our factory. The transmissions, fuel tanks, tires....every part on that machine except for the caster forks are made in the USA. Our decks are stamped in Horicon Wisconsin and assembled at our factory. If you don't believe that then that's your problem. The wiring harness is assembled for us by a supplier in the U.S. Do they get resitors, fuses, diodes etc. from China to make that harness? How the hell do I know and nor do I care. As I said every weld you see on a frame and every bolt and nut you see on these machines are assembled in the USA and 98% of the parts come from the USA. It is logistically impossible to just assemble thousands of mowers when all or even most of your parts are imported. You don't want a Deere? Fine. Go get yourself a Murray.

Zman, not to stop or step on your thread here, but...you are dealing with a guy who obviously wants a 100% American Made machine at a 100% Chinese Price. Richard is an " A Typical Landscape Cheapscape" He wants top dollar for all his work and doesn't wanna give you jack crap for your work. Bottom line is he has a Lexus taste but a Ford Focus budget. We both know that that the Deere Z9 series is the BEST out there right now, convincing these idiots right now is the problem we face now, NOT!! the machine. We both know they are the Best! Unless Deere is willing to sell at Chinese pricing, (and I am sure they won't) I'm not sure JD can win. Finally, not busting down Richard, he is only 1 of thousands that want the same thing. Something for nothing!! My question is: If you can't afford the best mower on the market, the John Deere Z9 Series, then why even click on a thread related to it. I am sure Red Hawk or Blue Hawk, whatever it is, has it's own threads on lawnsite. Everyone else does!!

JDeereZman
12-10-2010, 04:18 PM
Zman, not to stop or step on your thread here, but...you are dealing with a guy who obviously wants a 100% American Made machine at a 100% Chinese Price. Richard is an " A Typical Landscape Cheapscape" He wants top dollar for all his work and doesn't wanna give you jack crap for your work. Bottom line is he has a Lexus taste but a Ford Focus budget. We both know that that the Deere Z9 series is the BEST out there right now, convincing these idiots right now is the problem we face now, NOT!! the machine. We both know they are the Best! Unless Deere is willing to sell at Chinese pricing, (and I am sure they won't) I'm not sure JD can win. Finally, not busting down Richard, he is only 1 of thousands that want the same thing. Something for nothing!! My question is: If you can't afford the best mower on the market, the John Deere Z9 Series, then why even click on a thread related to it. I am sure Red Hawk or Blue Hawk, whatever it is, has it's own threads on lawnsite. Everyone else does!!

Richard is not the first on here to claim knowledge of everything Deere does in their business, purchasing, labor and everything else. A factory like ours could not stay in business if we imported all of our parts from China or anywhere else. Lots of people do not understand that most of a factories suppliers HAVE to be from a reasonably close proximity because of lead times and logistical purposes. And not just in the case of Deere but there are situations where a factory may have no other option but to get a part from China if no supplier in the states will make a part for you because you don't meet their minimum quantities or other requirements. But one thing I can assure Richard or anyone else on here that have doubts is that a John Deere Z900 mower is Made In The USA....Fuquay Varina,NC USA to be exact. Richard is from Swift Creek, NC which is not that far from Fuquay Varina. We do tours for commercial and Golf and Turf mowers at our factory all the time and if Richard wants to get in on one I am sure they would oblige and he could see for himself how these Z900's and our other commercial mowing and Golf and Turf equipment are manufactured at our facility. I would just advise him not to go in there and tell them they don't know what they are talking about like he did me though.

Richard Martin
12-10-2010, 04:45 PM
WOW. A lot of presumptions going on here.

I never said ANYONE didn't know what they were talking about.

I don't expect something for nothing. My current 60" mower is a Dixie Chopper w/ 28 EFI Kohler engine. They don't give those things away.

I never claimed knowledge of everything that Deere does but by your very own admission they are having basic components of the mower built in China. It's not like they're only installing someone else's part (like a hydro pump or engine) that was built overseas, they are having their own parts built overseas. I'm sure the guy that got laid off from the American foundry appreciates your honesty.

I pay for what I consider to be the best. I'm willing to try new machines whether they're cheap or expensive, when the need arises.

JDeereZman
12-10-2010, 08:35 PM
WOW. A lot of presumptions going on here.

I never said ANYONE didn't know what they were talking about.

I don't expect something for nothing. My current 60" mower is a Dixie Chopper w/ 28 EFI Kohler engine. They don't give those things away.

I never claimed knowledge of everything that Deere does but by your very own admission they are having basic components of the mower built in China. It's not like they're only installing someone else's part (like a hydro pump or engine) that was built overseas, they are having their own parts built overseas. I'm sure the guy that got laid off from the American foundry appreciates your honesty.

I pay for what I consider to be the best. I'm willing to try new machines whether they're cheap or expensive, when the need arises.

I spoke of ONE, count it ONE part on that machine from China. Where in what I said do you get that by my admission we have COMPONENTS, (plural) by what you said that are made in China? And as for that part that does come from China the same part on the 800 was made in the US but Deere went to this one made in China for a reason. Make of what you want for that reason. As for saying you didn't say I didn't know what I was talking about, how is this quote from you supposed to be taken? If the assembly is only assembled here of imported parts then it's not American made and you can try to convince yourself that it is all you want. The hydro pumps are made in Greenville, TN. The decks are stamped at our Deere factory in Horicon,Wisc. and finish them at our plant in Fuquay Varina. I could sit here (which I am not) and tell you where every part on that machine comes from. Believe what you want. I could care less. I"m sure you did a complete rundown of where every single part came from on your Dixie Chopper. I'm sure there is not a single electrical component in the harness or even a valve stem in the tire that was not made in China. Everything on the Chop is Made In The USA. Right?

Mow N GO 06
12-11-2010, 01:41 AM
I spoke of ONE, count it ONE part on that machine from China. Where in what I said do you get that by my admission we have COMPONENTS, (plural) by what you said that are made in China? And as for that part that does come from China the same part on the 800 was made in the US but Deere went to this one made in China for a reason. Make of what you want for that reason. As for saying you didn't say I didn't know what I was talking about, how is this quote from you supposed to be taken? If the assembly is only assembled here of imported parts then it's not American made and you can try to convince yourself that it is all you want. The hydro pumps are made in Greenville, TN. The decks are stamped at our Deere factory in Horicon,Wisc. and finish them at our plant in Fuquay Varina. I could sit here (which I am not) and tell you where every part on that machine comes from. Believe what you want. I could care less. I"m sure you did a complete rundown of where every single part came from on your Dixie Chopper. I'm sure there is not a single electrical component in the harness or even a valve stem in the tire that was not made in China. Everything on the Chop is Made In The USA. Right?

Richard, I'm willing to put $500 on (and someone can hold the money until we find out for sure) that more parts on the Dixie Chopper come from China than the Deere Z9. Any takers let us know. The REASON for the front forks imported from China is simple on the Z9. In order to trade in foreign markets (sell equipment there) is part of NAFTA, signed into law many years ago. Deere would be a bunch of dumbasses not to want to trade in China. Front forks are easy to build and can't screw up much there. Hence, why they chose that part. If they break, Deere replaces them. Never heard of one breaking but they could. Deere now has a part made in that country to sell in that country. Smart?? Yes!! I have said it a thousand times "John Deere Co. didn't get rich by being stupid"

ZMan, calm down man....You are working in a factory in NC making the Very Best Z mower on the market today!! Everybody on this website knows it, some will fight it til the bitter end because they just will. Everyody on here is just "not suited to be the best" so why should they buy the best??? That's there problem not yours! Keep up the good work and "The cream will rise to the top"

demhustler
12-11-2010, 04:25 AM
Richard, I'm willing to put $500 on (and someone can hold the money until we find out for sure) that more parts on the Dixie Chopper come from China than the Deere Z9. Any takers let us know. The REASON for the front forks imported from China is simple on the Z9. In order to trade in foreign markets (sell equipment there) is part of NAFTA, signed into law many years ago. Deere would be a bunch of dumbasses not to want to trade in China. Front forks are easy to build and can't screw up much there. Hence, why they chose that part. If they break, Deere replaces them. Never heard of one breaking but they could. Deere now has a part made in that country to sell in that country. Smart?? Yes!! I have said it a thousand times "John Deere Co. didn't get rich by being stupid"

ZMan, calm down man....You are working in a factory in NC making the Very Best Z mower on the market today!! Everybody on this website knows it, some will fight it til the bitter end because they just will. Everyody on here is just "not suited to be the best" so why should they buy the best??? That's there problem not yours! Keep up the good work and "The cream will rise to the top"

man, you do have very little idea ... "the best"? : )))))

Richard - as you can see - each pig praises their own mud puddle - they don't know better...
geezz, jd ... its far from the best : )))) - too heavy, too slow, to expensive:
only 25hp mower is up to 1500lbs, only 12mph even transport speed... - see, they never saw or even know anything better, and expecting people to pay for combine harvesters wasn't sold, 100-ton equipment, sitting without work, and for CEO salaries and vocation perks on Caribbean - all included in "paint and jd cap" : )))))

p.s. on jd standers -they still couldn't manage to improve operator's platform design -ridiculous: it still have this tiny gap where operator squeezes his feet and since operator position shifted too far to the front - it has to carry huge dead weight on the rear as counterweight...

Richard Martin
12-11-2010, 05:29 AM
Richard, I'm willing to put $500 on (and someone can hold the money until we find out for sure) that more parts on the Dixie Chopper come from China than the Deere Z9.

I would defy you to find a single, solitary part on my Dixie that says Made In China or has China stamped, forged or imprinted upon it. If there is a Chinese made part on it I don't know about it.

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 09:30 AM
I would defy you to find a single, solitary part on my Dixie that says Made In China or has China stamped, forged or imprinted upon it. If there is a Chinese made part on it I don't know about it.

It doesn't have to say Made In China to be from China. It's kinda hard to get all of that stamped on a diode or a fuse or any other electrical component. Take a look at your belts. You might not find it on the one on your mower now if it is worn but when you get a new one I bet you will see it then. Sure the supplier DC uses may be from the US but where the hell do you think the supplier gets it from?

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 09:32 AM
I would defy you to find a single, solitary part on my Dixie that says Made In China or has China stamped, forged or imprinted upon it. If there is a Chinese made part on it I don't know about it.

Oh yeah...take a good look at your blades too.

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 09:48 AM
Richard, I'm willing to put $500 on (and someone can hold the money until we find out for sure) that more parts on the Dixie Chopper come from China than the Deere Z9. Any takers let us know. The REASON for the front forks imported from China is simple on the Z9. In order to trade in foreign markets (sell equipment there) is part of NAFTA, signed into law many years ago. Deere would be a bunch of dumbasses not to want to trade in China. Front forks are easy to build and can't screw up much there. Hence, why they chose that part. If they break, Deere replaces them. Never heard of one breaking but they could. Deere now has a part made in that country to sell in that country. Smart?? Yes!! I have said it a thousand times "John Deere Co. didn't get rich by being stupid"

ZMan, calm down man....You are working in a factory in NC making the Very Best Z mower on the market today!! Everybody on this website knows it, some will fight it til the bitter end because they just will. Everyody on here is just "not suited to be the best" so why should they buy the best??? That's there problem not yours! Keep up the good work and "The cream will rise to the top"

Make it $5000. That would be money in the bank.

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 10:15 AM
man, you do have very little idea ... "the best"? : )))))

Richard - as you can see - each pig praises their own mud puddle - they don't know better...
geezz, jd ... its far from the best : )))) - too heavy, too slow, to expensive:
only 25hp mower is up to 1500lbs, only 12mph even transport speed... - see, they never saw or even know anything better, and expecting people to pay for combine harvesters wasn't sold, 100-ton equipment, sitting without work, and for CEO salaries and vocation perks on Caribbean - all included in "paint and jd cap" : )))))

p.s. on jd standers -they still couldn't manage to improve operator's platform design -ridiculous: it still have this tiny gap where operator squeezes his feet and since operator position shifted too far to the front - it has to carry huge dead weight on the rear as counterweight...

Dem....I see you are as clueless as you ever were.

Richard Martin
12-11-2010, 10:21 AM
It doesn't have to say Made In China to be from China. It's kinda hard to get all of that stamped on a diode or a fuse or any other electrical component. Take a look at your belts. You might not find it on the one on your mower now if it is worn but when you get a new one I bet you will see it then. Sure the supplier DC uses may be from the US but where the hell do you think the supplier gets it from?

You'd be surprised at the lengths I go to in order to avoid imported articles. Sometimes it unavoidable. But it's highly likely that I wouldn't buy it if I can help it. Deere could just as easily continue to have their parts made at the same place they were always made. Greed is what made them go overseas.

Richard Martin
12-11-2010, 10:25 AM
Oh yeah...take a good look at your blades too.

Gators. I went into the local Exmark dealer about a month ago and told him I need a set of Gators for a Lazer Z 60" since it's the same blade as is on my Dixie. He went into the back and came out with 3 blades and set them on the counter. I picked them up and they said "China" right on the back. They did look like Gators but they weren't. I told him I wanted Gators. He said they were Gators. I said no they're not. ALL Gators have a Gator imprinted on them and they don't say China. I left them there.

dtc0207
12-11-2010, 11:24 AM
Richard, I'm willing to put $500 on (and someone can hold the money until we find out for sure) that more parts on the Dixie Chopper come from China than the Deere Z9. Any takers let us know. The REASON for the front forks imported from China is simple on the Z9. In order to trade in foreign markets (sell equipment there) is part of NAFTA, signed into law many years ago. Deere would be a bunch of dumbasses not to want to trade in China. Front forks are easy to build and can't screw up much there. Hence, why they chose that part. If they break, Deere replaces them. Never heard of one breaking but they could. Deere now has a part made in that country to sell in that country. Smart?? Yes!! I have said it a thousand times "John Deere Co. didn't get rich by being stupid"

ZMan, calm down man....You are working in a factory in NC making the Very Best Z mower on the market today!! Everybody on this website knows it, some will fight it til the bitter end because they just will. Everyody on here is just "not suited to be the best" so why should they buy the best??? That's there problem not yours! Keep up the good work and "The cream will rise to the top"

Hey mow n go do you know what nafta stands for it has nothing to do with china look it up so before you come and call a bunch of people dumbasses you might want to do a little research face it to answer the question of why the front forks are made in china it is simple they are cheaper to buy from a china importer then from here

demhustler
12-11-2010, 11:57 AM
Dem....I see you are as clueless as you ever were.

not as clueless you are - just for not very bright fella like you and this Mongo6 out here i repeat:
your jd too slow, too heavy, too expensive to be the best
reasons stated in previous post - but you don't have a clue anyway :hammerhead:

demhustler
12-11-2010, 12:25 PM
Hey mow n go do you know what nafta stands for it has nothing to do with china look it up so before you come and call a bunch of people dumbasses you might want to do a little research face it to answer the question of why the front forks are made in china it is simple they are cheaper to buy from a china importer then from here

he and his bud arrogant and limited-minded, like their salesmen :laugh:

one bubbled: "jd 12 mph is top possible speed for any decent mower", because of blade tip speed limits - "it science", that's it...
something tells me - he will reverse his position in no time when they will rise top cutting or transport speed again, and forget his "science" as he did when speeds was 8 mph, than 10, than 12 ... :laugh:

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 12:55 PM
he and his bud arrogant and limited-minded, like their salesmen :laugh:

one bubbled: "jd 12 mph is top possible speed for any decent mower", because of blade tip speed limits - "it science", that's it...
something tells me - he will reverse his position in no time when they will rise top cutting or transport speed again, and forget his "science" as he did when speeds was 8 mph, than 10, than 12 ... :laugh:

Let me first start by saying Deere hasn't built a professional series mower with a 25hp in 3 years so you were wrong on that. A 26hp Deere does not weigh 1500 lbs. and that is even with the 60lb bumper on the back. One of the biggest complaints professional mowers have always had is hillside stability. The Z900 was designed to evenly distribute the weight of the machine front to back. Then a 60lb bumper was added to the rear of the machine. All of this was done for better hillside stability. Go find another mower out there that will stick to a hillside better that a Z9. You won't. As for the top transport speed of a Z9 it is actually 13mph and that is the max that we will set them at from the factory. You can make them go faster than that but there is a gov. agency called OSHA that has something to say about it.

One last thing. Could you please provide a Demhsutler translation guide with your posts so a person can decipher exactly what the hell you are saying?

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 12:59 PM
Hey mow n go do you know what nafta stands for it has nothing to do with china look it up so before you come and call a bunch of people dumbasses you might want to do a little research face it to answer the question of why the front forks are made in china it is simple they are cheaper to buy from a china importer then from here

If you reasearched why the casters are now made in China instead of the supplier we used in the US please show me your reasearch. Because price was not the reason. Look at the caster arms on an 800 series and then look at the casters on a 900. I think you will get an idea. But then again maybe you are not capable of figuring it out.

demhustler
12-11-2010, 01:44 PM
Let me first start by saying Deere hasn't built a professional series mower with a 25hp in 3 years so you were wrong on that. A 26hp Deere does not weigh 1500 lbs. and that is even with the 60lb bumper on the back. One of the biggest complaints professional mowers have always had is hillside stability. The Z900 was designed to evenly distribute the weight of the machine front to back. Then a 60lb bumper was added to the rear of the machine. All of this was done for better hillside stability. Go find another mower out there that will stick to a hillside better that a Z9. You won't. As for the top transport speed of a Z9 it is actually 13mph and that is the max that we will set them at from the factory. You can make them go faster than that but there is a gov. agency called OSHA that has something to say about it.

One last thing. Could you please provide a Demhsutler translation guide with your posts so a person can decipher exactly what the hell you are saying?

even biggest -37 hp - "Travel Speed: 0 - 12 mph (0-19.3 km/h)"
http://www.deere.com/en_US/groundscare/products_equipment/commercial_mowing/ztraks/online_brochures/ztraks_specs_index.html - not even close to12.5 or 13 - right?
z925 ZTrak™PRO 900 Series 26hp Weight 1408 lbs. (w/60" deck) - is over 1400lbs and under 1500lbs - right?

engineers and designers couldn't get weight distribution right from the beginning - so they have to add dead weight (counterweights) for balance;
result-overweight;
same with stand-ons Quik-Trak™ Mowers - operator platform location - no improvements - engineers and designers with their salaries just milking their customers ...

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 01:52 PM
You'd be surprised at the lengths I go to in order to avoid imported articles. Sometimes it unavoidable. But it's highly likely that I wouldn't buy it if I can help it. Deere could just as easily continue to have their parts made at the same place they were always made. Greed is what made them go overseas.

Deere could just as easily continue to have their parts made at the same place they were always made. Greed is what made them go overseas Stop for just a second and think (if you can) about what you just said with that statement. Like I have already told you the casters for the 800 were made in the US, practically in our own backyard. So what you are saying is that so Deere could get these casters cheaper they now have them made halfway around the world and shipped across the seas because it is so much cheaper? Shipping costs by seas are determined by weight and these casters weigh about 10 lbs each so that is way more cost efficient than having them made in your own backyard? THINK ABOUT IT RICHARD!!!!!!!

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 02:00 PM
even biggest -37 hp - "Travel Speed: 0 - 12 mph (0-19.3 km/h)"
http://www.deere.com/en_US/groundscare/products_equipment/commercial_mowing/ztraks/online_brochures/ztraks_specs_index.html - not even close to12.5 or 13 - right?
z925 ZTrak™PRO 900 Series 26hp Weight 1408 lbs. (w/60" deck) - is over 1400lbs and under 1500lbs - right?

engineers and designers couldn't get weight distribution right from the beginning - so they have to add dead weight (counterweights) for balance;
result-overweight;
same with stand-ons Quik-Trak™ Mowers - operator platform location - no improvements - engineers and designers with their salaries just milking their customers ...

Read what I said. WE SET THEM NO HIGHER THAN 12MPH!!!!!!

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 02:20 PM
even biggest -37 hp - "Travel Speed: 0 - 12 mph (0-19.3 km/h)"
http://www.deere.com/en_US/groundscare/products_equipment/commercial_mowing/ztraks/online_brochures/ztraks_specs_index.html - not even close to12.5 or 13 - right?
z925 ZTrak™PRO 900 Series 26hp Weight 1408 lbs. (w/60" deck) - is over 1400lbs and under 1500lbs - right?

engineers and designers couldn't get weight distribution right from the beginning - so they have to add dead weight (counterweights) for balance;
result-overweight;
same with stand-ons Quik-Trak™ Mowers - operator platform location - no improvements - engineers and designers with their salaries just milking their customers ...

z925 ZTrak™PRO 900 Series 26hp Weight 1408 lbs. That is 92 lbs less than the 1500lbs you claimed before and remove the 60lb weight (which an owner can do if he wishes) that brings the weight by what you just claimed to 1348 lbs. A lot less than the 1500 you originally claimed.

demhustler
12-11-2010, 02:25 PM
Read what I said. WE SET THEM NO HIGHER THAN 12MPH!!!!!!

oh, realy? why i don't believe you? : ))) nice if that was true though... still why would you do so and nobody knows? : ))))
well, at least you know better what needed to be done then jd designers, engineers and admins putting in specs

what with the tranny - does it contain variable displacement motor and does it uses motor displacement change while changing speed? (does it has capabilities like hydrogear zt5400 trany?)

demhustler
12-11-2010, 02:35 PM
z925 ZTrak™PRO 900 Series 26hp Weight 1408 lbs. That is 92 lbs less than the 1500lbs you claimed before and remove the 60lb weight (which an owner can do if he wishes) that brings the weight by what you just claimed to 1348 lbs. A lot less than the 1500 you originally claimed.

no, to remove extra dead weight would set it completely out of balance and suck on the hills (like you stated above), - poor design - so, 26hp under 1500lbs (over 1400) - as close as it gets to "originally claimed" : ))))

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 02:51 PM
oh, realy? why i don't believe you? : ))) nice if that was true though... still why would you do so and nobody knows? : ))))
well, at least you know better what needed to be done then jd designers, engineers and admins putting in specs

what with the tranny - does it contain variable displacement motor and does it uses motor displacement change while changing speed? (does it has capabilities like hydrogear zt5400 trany?)

God knows your stupidity is giving me a headache!!! If you ever put your butt on a Z900 which I know you haven't but you know EVERYTHING about you might could see then how the system works. But then again I doubt you could figure it out so I will try to help you. There are adjustment devices on each TZT. You can crank them up higher than the 12mph but it will do 2 things. It will reduce your reverse speed and probably increase the creep in the machine. There are 2 other factors in setting speeds. Creep and tracking. They are designed so that to get the best tracking and no creep the 12mph number is the limit. If someone is mechanically inclined (which I doubt you are) they can get them faster than this. But why would anyone want to? Our engineers came up with this number to make transport speeds and blade speeds work together to get the best cut quality. What is it about this that makes it so hard for you to understand?

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 02:53 PM
no, to remove extra dead weight would set it completely out of balance and suck on the hills (like you stated above), - poor design - so, 26hp under 1500lbs (over 1400) - as close as it gets to "originally claimed" : ))))

Because some people who cut in less hilly conditions do remove the bumper if they do not do a lot of hillside mowing. That is why the estate mowers do not have the bumper.

demhustler
12-11-2010, 03:03 PM
God knows your stupidity is giving me a headache!!! If you ever put your butt on a Z900 which I know you haven't but you know EVERYTHING about you might could see then how the system works. But then again I doubt you could figure it out so I will try to help you. There are adjustment devices on each TZT. You can crank them up higher than the 12mph but it will do 2 things. It will reduce your reverse speed and probably increase the creep in the machine. There are 2 other factors in setting speeds. Creep and tracking. They are designed so that to get the best tracking and no creep the 12mph number is the limit. If someone is mechanically inclined (which I doubt you are) they can get them faster than this. But why would anyone want to? Our engineers came up with this number to make transport speeds and blade speeds work together to get the best cut quality. What is it about this that makes it so hard for you to understand?

well, you newer been very bright boy (or girl) - ask someone who knows what variable displacement motors in transmissions (like zt5400) do, how it differ from var. displ.pump/fixed displacement motor set-up and who capable to answer questions about hydrostatic transmissions - you obviously -don't

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 03:13 PM
well, you newer been very bright boy (or girl) - ask someone who knows what variable displacement motors in transmissions (like zt5400) do, how it differ from var. displ.pump/fixed displacement motor set-up and who capable to answer questions about hydrostatic transmissions - you obviously -don't

*trucewhiteflag* I give up. I think I'll go outside and find someone's dog I can kick.

demhustler
12-11-2010, 03:20 PM
who can answer Q about z9 trany? (that tard nave no idea)
does 13 cc motor - variable displacement motor? can trany use motor displacement change for changing speed? (can it have capabilities like hydrogear zt5400 trany? (cheetah and husqvarna 4 example)

KFLAWN
12-11-2010, 04:06 PM
Let me first start by saying Deere hasn't built a professional series mower with a 25hp in 3 years so you were wrong on that. A 26hp Deere does not weigh 1500 lbs. and that is even with the 60lb bumper on the back. One of the biggest complaints professional mowers have always had is hillside stability. The Z900 was designed to evenly distribute the weight of the machine front to back. Then a 60lb bumper was added to the rear of the machine. All of this was done for better hillside stability. Go find another mower out there that will stick to a hillside better that a Z9. You won't. As for the top transport speed of a Z9 it is actually 13mph and that is the max that we will set them at from the factory. You can make them go faster than that but there is a gov. agency called OSHA that has something to say about it.

One last thing. Could you please provide a Demhsutler translation guide with your posts so a person can decipher exactly what the hell you are saying?

id like to see a z9 vs next lazer z. not trying to bash but... we have a 60 next lazer and that thing can cut just about any hill. We hardly used our walk behind this year.

I really like the design of the new z9 I remember first seeing it in a landscape magazine. Im not sure how the mod linkages would hold up with years of abuse... but maybe.. also it seems like it would clog up alot

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 04:45 PM
who can answer Q about z9 trany? (that tard nave no idea)
does 13 cc motor - variable displacement motor? can trany use motor displacement change for changing speed? (can it have capabilities like hydrogear zt5400 trany? (cheetah and husqvarna 4 example)

Now he brings out the "tard" and "gay" blasts. Wonderful...Maybe if you watch this especially around the 3:10 mark maybe it can get across to you what I am too much of a "tard" to do. Maybe it can dispell some of the other crap I have seen on this thread. But then again we are talking about a John Deere. Not much you can do with the Deere bashers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44Vodxjah6I

demhustler
12-11-2010, 08:06 PM
* trucewhiteflag* I give up. I think I'll go outside and find someone's dog I can kick.

that's what most dumbs up there do - you might do just that :laugh: - less harm then you do on your day job with your incompetency; jd insurance wouldn't cover that but might help you feel better
since we wasting time with you and you full of it -
do you know (or ask somebody knowledgeable and competent) any data on z9 transmission: what been asked above and torque, pressure, flow numbers - as rated or being tested?

JDeereZman
12-11-2010, 08:13 PM
that's what most dumbs up there do - you might do just that :laugh: - less harm then you do on your day job with your incompetency; jd insurance wouldn't cover that but might help you feel better
since we wasting time with you and you full of it -
do you know (or ask somebody knowledgeable and competent) any data on z9 transmission: what been asked above and torque, pressure, flow numbers - as rated or being tested?

You are calling me dumb and you can't string five coherent words together? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

demhustler
12-11-2010, 08:31 PM
You are calling me dumb and you can't string five coherent words together? laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

wrong - no, i didn't call you dumb or stupid - that's your own conclusion, and not often, but sometimes you right :laugh:

Richard Martin
12-12-2010, 06:54 AM
You are calling me dumb and you can't string five coherent words together? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

He's right. He didn't call you dumb. Just incompetent. There's a difference. :laugh:

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 09:40 AM
He's right. He didn't call you dumb. Just incompetent. There's a difference. :laugh:

"well, you newer been very bright boy (or girl) -", "who can answer Q about z9 trany? (that tard nave no idea)", "that's what most dumbs up there do - you might do just that" . So now we can add reading comprehension to Richard's lack of basic skills.

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 12:56 PM
who can answer Q about z9 trany? (that tard nave no idea)
does 13 cc motor - variable displacement motor? can trany use motor displacement change for changing speed? (can it have capabilities like hydrogear zt5400 trany? (cheetah and husqvarna 4 example)

that's what most dumbs up there do - you might do just that :laugh: - less harm then you do on your day job with your incompetency; jd insurance wouldn't cover that but might help you feel better
since we wasting time with you and you full of it -
do you know (or ask somebody knowledgeable and competent) any data on z9 transmission: what been asked above and torque, pressure, flow numbers - as rated or being tested?

wrong - no, i didn't call you dumb or stupid - that's your own conclusion, and not often, but sometimes you right :laugh:

Then again who can comprehend anything Demhustler says?

KFLAWN
12-12-2010, 01:05 PM
in before the lock!

demhustler
12-12-2010, 03:24 PM
Then again who can comprehend anything Demhustler says?

if you don't- i'm not surprised
for easier for you to "comprehend' - i didn't call you stupid directly - as you calling people in your posts (doesn't worth to be quoted here)

you gonna get banned with your insults, flooder
but bad thing - thread can be deleted and all tec. info - gone because of flooders like you

any real tec. info on z9 trany? ( besides your promo movies, which doesn't have any more info than on jde website and brochures already?)

Richard Martin
12-12-2010, 04:20 PM
So now we can add reading comprehension to Richard's lack of basic skills.

Your attacks just keep growing eh...

Having been attacked and insulted by far more skillful adversaries than yourself I can assure you, he hasn't insulted you... yet.

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 04:29 PM
if you don't- i'm not surprised
for easier for you to "comprehend' - i didn't call you stupid directly - as you calling people in your posts (doesn't worth to be quoted here)

you gonna get banned with your insults, flooder
but bad thing - thread can be deleted and all tec. info - gone because of flooders like you

any real tec. info on z9 trany? ( besides your promo movies, which doesn't have any more info than on jde website and brochures already?)

Let me respond to this inlingo that maybe you can understand.

Demhustler make claim that Z9 no go more dan 12mph transport speeds. Zman say you are wrong. Explain that way is that mower will go more dan 12mph but we at factory no do that. Explain that for mower to operate efficient way....no creep...no low reverse speed....need to set at 12mph to work with blade speed for better quality cut. Demhustler say he not believe Zman. Then Demhustler call Zman a tard and say what he want is tech info on Z9 trany? Zman look back and find Demhustler claim...Z9 no go more than 12mph....but Demhustler say nothing before that about tech info....Now Demhustler say Zman will be ban for making insults but he call Zman a "tard". :confused:

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 04:37 PM
Your attacks just keep growing eh...

Having been attacked and insulted by far more skillful adversaries than yourself I can assure you, he hasn't insulted you... yet.

Yes, you make a false claim and talk out of your backside and yes I will attack.

demhustler
12-12-2010, 04:44 PM
Let me respond to this inlingo that maybe you can understand.

Demhustler make claim that Z9 no go more dan 12mph transport speeds. Zman say you are wrong. Explain that way is that mower will go more dan 12mph but we at factory no do that. Explain that for mower to operate efficient way....no creep...no low reverse speed....need to set at 12mph to work with blade speed for better quality cut. Demhustler say he not believe Zman. Then Demhustler call Zman a tard and say what he want is tech info on Z9 trany? Zman look back and find Demhustler claim...Z9 no go more than 12mph....but Demhustler say nothing before that about tech info....Now Demhustler say Zman will be ban for making insults but he call Zman a "tard". :confused:

yes. top transport speed - 12 mph by specs and how you set it on factory; all drivetrains, by all OEMs would allow some adjustment to accommodate different mowers (engines rpm, torque, load, weight, etc) - to meet claimed speed, stated in specs

demhustler
12-12-2010, 04:50 PM
Yes, you make a false claim and talk out of your backside and yes I will attack.

geeezz... whatever ... - go kick dogs, chase cars or whatever you do - like anybody cares
i care - thread can be deleted because of your trash
can you answer real questions? probably not; i'm not calling you useless... but why they only holding you on jd?...

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 05:07 PM
geeezz... whatever ... - go kick dogs, chase cars or whatever you do - like anybody cares
i care - thread can be deleted because of your trash
can you answer real questions? probably not; you're useless... why they only holding you on jd...

I believe if one will take the time and go back and read all of the posts you will see that i didn't start all this stuff. Sure I may have fired the first insult and for that I apologize. But if you will, go back and carefully read...especially Richards posts about Deere importing all of our parts from China and other claims as well as from a couple of others. I tried to set the record straight but the more I tried the more the BS came...especially from Richard. He kept it up even when someone that works in the very facility that builds these mowers tried to give facts and he kept it up. To me you might as well call me a liar. Just go back and read this stuff and Richards claims especially. You have heard all you are going to hear about this from this "tard".

demhustler
12-12-2010, 05:23 PM
it's a forum, not blog - you can't control what other saying - wright or wrong
but we can agree or disagree, state our facts and arguments, and those who read thread - have all kinds of info, opinions and facts, and would sort it out for themselves

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 05:26 PM
it's a forum, not blog - you can't control what other saying - wright or wrong
but we can state our facts, and those who read thread - have all kinds of info, opinions and facts and would sort it out for themselves

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

bradseabridge
12-12-2010, 05:46 PM
what? so too heavy, too slow and too expensive aren't the facts? right.

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 07:52 PM
what? so too heavy, too slow and too expensive aren't the facts? right.

Since this thread is comparing John Deere and Exmark I decided to look up a couple of things. I did comparisons between a 29hp Deere and 29hp Exmark because like I said that is what this thread is about.

Deere Z930 1408 lbs. Exmark 1212 lbs. (probably because of cheap Chinese steel) Just kidding!!!!!!
And this is the one that really shocked me since everyone wants to beat up Deere about this
Deere 0-12 mph Exmark 0-11.5 mph

http://campbellservices.net/new_vehicle_detail.asp?veh=184761#info

As for pricing if you do some honest reasearch I believe you will see that pricing is pretty much the same and varies in regions. I know there were articles I saw earlier this year about the huge jump in Exmark pricing for 2010 but I won't comment because I really have no knowledge of Exmark pricing. But how about that speed comparison? Is that a "fact"?

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 08:25 PM
29hp Hustler Z...0-9mph. Can that be true?

http://www.hustlerturf.com/products.html?sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=4&sobi2Id=7

Richard Martin
12-12-2010, 08:32 PM
I believe if one will take the time and go back and read all of the posts you will see that i didn't start all this stuff. Sure I may have fired the first insult and for that I apologize. But if you will, go back and carefully read...especially Richards posts about Deere importing all of our parts from China and other claims as well as from a couple of others. I tried to set the record straight but the more I tried the more the BS came...especially from Richard. He kept it up even when someone that works in the very facility that builds these mowers tried to give facts and he kept it up. To me you might as well call me a liar. Just go back and read this stuff and Richards claims especially. You have heard all you are going to hear about this from this "tard".

You did start all of this stuff. James2000 said he saw China on the caster arms and you freaked out on him. You said and I quote "Those front caster arms are not made in China. NOTHING on that machine is made in China. Nothing is stamped on those caster arms, least of all the word...China. I'm getting so tired of this crap."

If anyone doesn't know the facts it's you. You wouldn't know a Chinese piece of steel if it said China right on it.

I never claimed that Deere imported all of their parts. It is undeniable that there are imported parts on those mowers that are painted yellow and green and you really have no way of knowing whether they or aren't of Chinese origin.

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 09:00 PM
Well when I am wrong I am wrong and have to admit it. I looked at these today and yes some caster arms do have the word "China" stamped on it along with the part number. I have just never noticed it. The Z800 series did not have that for sure because I know the supplier that made those. Whether this is the same supplier or not I am not sure. Whether these are cast in China and then finished here I am not sure and it doesn't really matter. These machines ARE completely assembled in the USA in Fuquay Varina,NC. Some of our suppliers may get components for the parts that they supply us from China or other countries overseas. I do know that for logistical purposes the huge majority of parts we use come from suppliers as close to us as possible, but some do come from Europe and Asia. Our transmissions are made by Tuff Torq which is owned by Kanzaki, a Japanese company. Are some of the components Tuff Torq uses Made in China? Maybe. Who knows? But the transmission is assembled in Tennessee and final assembly is in North Carolina so it would be incorrect to say these are not American made. And I would bet money that suppliers for Scag, Exmark, Toro and any other commercial mower you want to name has parts or components that suppliers use for parts that come from China or other places overseas. I probably reacted the way I did because of what happened last week. A guy posted on here that John Deere mowers were made by Great Dane and that Deere does not engineer their own equipment and a lot of other BS. He had also said that his JD dealer had urged him to stay away from the JD commercial mowers because they were hard to sell and not dependable. So I searched the other posts this guy had made and it turned out that he was a Scag sales rep. at a Scag dealership. After that Lawnsite removed his post. So to James2000, my apologies. I will try not to jump the gun next time.

You did start all of this stuff. James2000 said he saw China on the caster arms and you freaked out on him. You said and I quote "Those front caster arms are not made in China. NOTHING on that machine is made in China. Nothing is stamped on those caster arms, least of all the word...China. I'm getting so tired of this crap."

If anyone doesn't know the facts it's you. You wouldn't know a Chinese piece of steel if it said China right on it.

I never claimed that Deere imported all of their parts. It is undeniable that there are imported parts on those mowers that are painted yellow and green and you really have no way of knowing whether they or aren't of Chinese origin.

well if you would have kept reading down you would have seen where I admitted I was wrong so I reposted it for you. When I found out about the change in suppliers I found out why and was not because of cost. I knew who the supplier was that did the 800 caster arms and had not heard of the change. And in case you didn't notice that was months ago. I was referring to the crap this weekend. When I as you say "freaked out" on James 2000 it happened just after someone was on here claiming that Great Dane engineered and built the Deere ZTR's. Then it was found that he was a Scag dealer on here spreading crap. When Lawnsite found out they removed his posts. I have seen lots of that on here. People making claims, talking out of the rear ends and just plain lying about Deere ZTR's and commercial equipment. That is a very small number of people that do that though.

Finally I want to challenge you to research every post I have made on here and find one time I ever bashed or said a negative word about a competitor's products.

demhustler
12-12-2010, 09:32 PM
Since this thread is comparing John Deere and Exmark I decided to look up a couple of things. I did comparisons between a 29hp Deere and 29hp Exmark because like I said that is what this thread is about.

Deere Z930 1408 lbs. Exmark 1212 lbs. (probably because of cheap Chinese steel) Just kidding!!!!!!
And this is the one that really shocked me since everyone wants to beat up Deere about this
Deere 0-12 mph Exmark 0-11.5 mph

http://campbellservices.net/new_vehicle_detail.asp?veh=184761#info

As for pricing if you do some honest reasearch I believe you will see that pricing is pretty much the same and varies in regions. I know there were articles I saw earlier this year about the huge jump in Exmark pricing for 2010 but I won't comment because I really have no knowledge of Exmark pricing. But how about that speed comparison? Is that a "fact"?

29hp Hustler Z...0-9mph. Can that be true?

http://www.hustlerturf.com/products.html?sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=4&sobi2Id=7

"honest reserch"?

http://www.exmark.com/lazerzxsspecs.htm
exmark specs:
0-12 mph (19.3 kmph) forward, 0-8.0 mph (12.9 kmph) reverse
similar to toro z590
http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/zmaster/z597/74268.html

hustler z, x1...(9-11) mph; super z -15mph, -everybody knows this
http://www.hustlerturf.com/products.html?sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=4&sobi2Id=9

mowerbrad
12-12-2010, 09:48 PM
"honest reserch"?

http://www.exmark.com/lazerzxsspecs.htm
exmark specs:
0-12 mph (19.3 kmph) forward, 0-8.0 mph (12.9 kmph) reverse
similar to toro z590
http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/zmaster/z597/74268.html

hustler z, x1...(9-11) mph; super z -15mph, -everybody knows this
http://www.hustlerturf.com/products.html?sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=4&sobi2Id=9

You listed the specifications for the LazerZ XS, not the regular LazerZ. JDeereZman was comparing the Z930 to a full size Lazer Z, not the XS line-up. So he was very right in the fact that the Exmark Lazer Z is slower than the John Deere Z930.

demhustler
12-12-2010, 09:48 PM
exmark newer bragged to be "cadillac" of an industry - it's good, reliable, simple, solid tank; proven workhorse of the industry, like T34 or AK47

demhustler
12-12-2010, 10:07 PM
You listed the specifications for the LazerZ XS, not the regular LazerZ. JDeereZman was comparing the Z930 to a full size Lazer Z, not the XS line-up. So he was very right in the fact that the Exmark Lazer Z is slower than the John Deere Z930.

show speeds higher than exmarks 12mph of any jd lineup ....

to consider to be the best, does jd have at least one fast model, like SZ, cheetah, pzzt, bb aos, etc? (among regular workhorse models)
jd doesn't let customers decide what model, speed (transport speed) better for them; sure, you believe - all people and companies above - wrong, jd sales department - right...

scotts lawn care
12-12-2010, 10:16 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 10:32 PM
show speeds higher than exmarks 12mph of any jd lineup ....

to consider to be the best, does jd have at least one fast model, like SZ, cheetah, pzzt, bb aos, etc? (among regular workhorse models)
jd doesn't let customers decide what model, speed (transport speed) better for them; sure, you believe - all people and companies above - wrong, jd sales department - right...

So by saying this "to consider to be the best, does jd have at least one fast model, like SZ, cheetah, pzzt, bb aos, etc?" am I to interperet that you are saying the faster the mower the better the mower? If that is what you are saying and since we are talking about a machine that cuts grass, where does cut quality factor in? Or is it all about how fast you can run laps on your lawn?

demhustler
12-12-2010, 10:39 PM
So by saying this "to consider to be the best, does jd have at least one fast model, like SZ, cheetah, pzzt, bb aos, etc?" am I to interperet that you are saying the faster the mower the better the mower? If that is what you are saying and since we are talking about a machine that cuts grass, where does cut quality factor in? Or is it all about how fast you can run laps on your lawn?

no, speed - one of objective factors which included in productivity, and here jd marks -poor, far from the best

mowerbrad
12-12-2010, 10:49 PM
There are many great mower manufacturers out there, including John Deere, Exmark, Toro, Scag, Hustler, etc. I never said that other companies don't make good mowers.

For me and many other people, John Deere makes the best mowers for our applications. They make a quality mower that can rival all other brands. I have found (through personal experience) that John Deere has one of the best mower decks for my accounts. When I purchase a mower, speed isn't the number one factor I consider.

But there are also many other people out there who have better luck with Exmark or Scag (or some other brand). If Exmark works better for someone else, I don't care. That's great, I'm not going to try and tell them that their mower is sub-par compared to my John Deere.

The perfect mower doesn't exist. My "perfect" mower is going to be different than your perfect mower, which is going to be different than Richard's perfect mower.

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 11:07 PM
no, speed - one of objective factors which included in productivity, and here jd marks -poor, far from the best

So are you also saying Exmark marks poor and far from the best in this category?

There are many great mower manufacturers out there, including John Deere, Exmark, Toro, Scag, Hustler, etc. I never said that other companies don't make good mowers.

For me and many other people, John Deere makes the best mowers for our applications. They make a quality mower that can rival all other brands. I have found (through personal experience) that John Deere has one of the best mower decks for my accounts. When I purchase a mower, speed isn't the number one factor I consider.

But there are also many other people out there who have better luck with Exmark or Scag (or some other brand). If Exmark works better for someone else, I don't care. That's great, I'm not going to try and tell them that their mower is sub-par compared to my John Deere.

The perfect mower doesn't exist. My "perfect" mower is going to be different than your perfect mower, which is going to be different than Richard's perfect mower.

Excellent points Brad. What amazes me is that whenever the Deere bashers come out it is always about the weight, the speed, where the parts come from, the arrogant dealer, green paint, pricing or whatever else pops in their heads. They never bash about what the mower is actually built to do.

mowerbrad
12-12-2010, 11:26 PM
Excellent points Brad. What amazes me is that whenever the Deere bashers come out it is always about the weight, the speed, where the parts come from, the arrogant dealer, green paint, pricing or whatever else pops in their heads. They never bash about what the mower is actually built to do.

One of the biggest things that comes up when people start bashing John Deere is the price. I've had people tell me that I am only paying for a name, when that is not true. I'm paying for a company the backs their products, a dealer that is there for me when I need them and a machine the performs everything I need it to and then some. And when you look at prices, John Deere is right about where most other big brands are. A Z925 with 60" deck goes for $9000 and a Z930 with 60" deck goes for just under $10,000. Those prices really aren't far off from what people are paying for comparable exmarks and toro's.

Two points that always get brought up regarding the Z9's are the weight and the hydraulics. I have not had any problems with the weight of mine and with me on my mower and a full tank of gas weighs over 2200#. I obviously don't use it on tiny lots, it gets used on properties that it fits. And regarding the transmission, that only gets brought up because of the issues that people had with the first year 800's. I know people with 800 series mowers and love them.

Every mower has its flaws, I don't care what brand it is, someone will always find things to complain about.

People beat up on Deere far too often. I think its mainly because they are such a large company. I have found that JD has given me the best equipment and the best service of any brand I have used.

It does get old having people continually bash deere. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus, I know many people really break down the mower and critique every little thing on the mower.

As you said JDeereZman, most of the parts on the Z9's are made in the USA. I don't care if there are some parts on the mower that may be from other countries, I know that JD has quality control standards and wouldn't use parts that don't meet those standards. I have toured some of Deere's facilities in Moline and was quite impressed to say the least. If your plant that builds the Z9's is anything like the facilities in Moline, these mowers are built in world-class plants.

JDeereZman
12-12-2010, 11:56 PM
One of the biggest things that comes up when people start bashing John Deere is the price. I've had people tell me that I am only paying for a name, when that is not true. I'm paying for a company the backs their products, a dealer that is there for me when I need them and a machine the performs everything I need it to and then some. And when you look at prices, John Deere is right about where most other big brands are. A Z925 with 60" deck goes for $9000 and a Z930 with 60" deck goes for just under $10,000. Those prices really aren't far off from what people are paying for comparable exmarks and toro's.

Two points that always get brought up regarding the Z9's are the weight and the hydraulics. I have not had any problems with the weight of mine and with me on my mower and a full tank of gas weighs over 2200#. I obviously don't use it on tiny lots, it gets used on properties that it fits. And regarding the transmission, that only gets brought up because of the issues that people had with the first year 800's. I know people with 800 series mowers and love them.

Every mower has its flaws, I don't care what brand it is, someone will always find things to complain about.

People beat up on Deere far too often. I think its mainly because they are such a large company. I have found that JD has given me the best equipment and the best service of any brand I have used.

It does get old having people continually bash deere. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus, I know many people really break down the mower and critique every little thing on the mower.

As you said JDeereZman, most of the parts on the Z9's are made in the USA. I don't care if there are some parts on the mower that may be from other countries, I know that JD has quality control standards and wouldn't use parts that don't meet those standards. I have toured some of Deere's facilities in Moline and was quite impressed to say the least. If your plant that builds the Z9's is anything like the facilities in Moline, these mowers are built in world-class plants.

Thanks Brad. Not to toot our own horn but we were nominated for assembly plant of the year. I will attach the article. Maybe the bashers will actually read it and give Deere some credit for their efforts as well as us employees.

http://www.assemblymag.com/Articles/Feature_Article/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000907446

turfbuilder
12-13-2010, 12:48 AM
I've got the Z960 and love it. I have to admit though I didn't care for the China tag that is on the front caster arm casting when I first saw them. I'm surprised Deere left it on the casting because it is so viseable.

I MOW ALONE
12-13-2010, 12:49 AM
all i got to say is that i find it very suspicious that this thread has not been closed by the moderators yet. i have seen threads with barely any arguing at all but maybe a few poor words towards one another and the mods shut it down and start deleting posts within minutes. huh very strange

JDeereZman
12-13-2010, 12:59 AM
I've got the Z960 and love it. I have to admit though I didn't care for the China tag that is on the front caster arm casting when I first saw them. I'm surprised Deere left it on the casting because it is so viseable.

It can't be removed. If it could everything you buy at Walmart would not say "Made In China". All these caster arms say is "China"... not "Made In China". By law they limited it as much as they could. Deere has it's own factories in China. Look at the caster arms on a Z800 and then look at the caster arms on a Z900 and ask yourself which one is the superior part?

demhustler
12-13-2010, 02:21 AM
So are you also saying Exmark marks poor and far from the best in this category?



Excellent points Brad. What amazes me is that whenever the Deere bashers come out it is always about the weight, the speed, where the parts come from, the arrogant dealer, green paint, pricing or whatever else pops in their heads. They never bash about what the mower is actually built to do.

like many other industry OEM, exmark do what mower suppose to do and does it good; newer brags - "it's best money can buy", "superior in everything"; - no, it's workhorse, not pimped like jd, - not "cadillac of industry", slow and heavy pimpmobile;

people bashing not mower, but those who brags about their superiority;
before bragging of any superiority - look on your numbers - start from at least set of your numbers not to be so inferior than other leading OEMs, than brag...

not everybody needs fast or powerful car - but can you imagine one of big three doesn't make fast cars?
i give all the credits to jd employees, and their machines, they can meat challenges and build at least one model with specifications on highest industry level, but they don't - which makes mower department looks like underachievers...

so, before brag - jd R&D should do some work and rise characteristics of your machine to higher level, to meat higher industry standards; than you can talk

demhustler
12-13-2010, 02:37 AM
similar picture with jd stand-ons
jd- giant, but it does looks like mower department r&d doesn't able to meet any challenges - they adopted inferior Great Dane design - leftovers from original sentar, whatever left from it after GD lost lawsuit, and whatever leftovers wright mfg throwed to GD, except main piece - operator platform position; yes, this is ridiculous, and since than - it still in bad place and jd quicktracks have to carry dead counterweight for balance;

instead of make significant improvements on design and rich over and/or around original wright mfg patent - giant jd r&d chose do nothing, just milk brandname, together with lawyers - and that's - ridiculous

demhustler
12-13-2010, 02:58 AM
from prev.post: operator platform shifted too far to the front to meet wright.mfg patent requirements (limitations) and counterweights, had to be added for balance

turfbuilder
12-13-2010, 11:53 AM
Yea so what Quick Trac or GD SuperSurfer are good machines I have used them . No stand on is going to match the Wright.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
12-13-2010, 05:54 PM
The Deere Z9's run 2K lbs with fuel?

That seems very heavy. Double the weight of my Toro Z400, but surely not double the capability??

JDeereZman
12-13-2010, 07:20 PM
You'd be surprised at the lengths I go to in order to avoid imported articles. Sometimes it unavoidable. But it's highly likely that I wouldn't buy it if I can help it. Deere could just as easily continue to have their parts made at the same place they were always made. Greed is what made them go overseas.

I've got the Z960 and love it. I have to admit though I didn't care for the China tag that is on the front caster arm casting when I first saw them. I'm surprised Deere left it on the casting because it is so viseable.

With all of the back and forth this weekend I wanted to say something that would have put all of this China stuff to bed but after I made the mistake I made a few months ago I wanted to wait until today when I could verify this to be 1000% sure so I didn't say anything. Yes the caster arms do have the word "China" stamped on them and yes they are cast in China. HOWEVER...ALL of the other cast parts are stamped with "JD USA". If you look along the edges of the caster forks you will see the JD USA stamp. If you lift the foot platform and look at the left drag link near the top you will see "JD USA". It is on the RH drag link as well but on the bottom side and not as easy to see. JD USA is also stamped on the L shaped brackets that the drag links attach to. If you use a mirror you can see them. All of the parts still come from the same supplier in the USA. There was a decision made to have the caster arms outsourced to another factory and God only knows we all know where that was don't we? A decision was made to outsource the caster arms and only the caster arms to a factory in China. Why it was this part and this part only I will not say because it is not my place to say so and besides it's nobody's business except Deere's. But as I said yesterday look at an 800 series caster arm and then look at a 900 series caster arm and you tell me which is of better quality? So you see Richard it wasn't because of greed that this part was outsourced to China it was a matter of quality. That is why this part and this part only is made and shipped from halfway around the world.

If I upset anyone this weekend with any of my posts i apologize. I started posting on Lawnsite.com a couple of years ago to try and dispell some of the untruths about the 800 series. Yes there were problems with that machine as it has been beaten to death but there were also a ton of claims made that just were not true and if any way possible I have and will continue to set the record straight about what comes out of our factory if I can.

This thread is titled "John Deere vs Exmark" but has turned into nothing but a Deere bash event. Read this quote from my pal Demhustler. "so, before brag - jd R&D should do some work and rise characteristics of your machine to higher level, to meat higher industry standards; than you can talk". Like I said this is a Deere vs Exmark thread. Demhustler praised Exmark "exmark do what mower suppose to do and does it good; newer brags - "it's best money can buy", "superior in everything"; - no, it's workhorse, not pimped like jd,". Whats wrong with this? JD and R & D should do more work? Exmark adopted on their Next Lazer Z the same design that Deere developed, a design no one else had and now exmark is using it. Howw much more R & D work do you want Deere to do to keep Exmark "superior in everything"?

OK.....I'm done. Go back to your bashing.

demhustler
12-13-2010, 09:00 PM
JDzman, you're doing a good job, "bashing" been provoked by arrogance of some "big jd" guys, who started picking on small exmark - how superior they are, "best money can buy" - not against you
guys who work on factories - does a good job, but "superiors", r&d, etc doesn't pulling the weight - only adding extra

with all possibilities jd have, they really need to go through BIGGEST LOOSER, rise performance numbers (at least on one model), shed some extra weight (like200-300 lbs), instead of only pimping-up luxury "slow, big, mean fat machine"

mowerbrad
12-13-2010, 09:02 PM
The Deere Z9's run 2K lbs with fuel?

That seems very heavy. Double the weight of my Toro Z400, but surely not double the capability??

Not standard. A plain Z925A weighs about 1400lbs. Once you add in a full tank of fuel, the bagging system I have including the front counter weights and a 200lb operator...thats when the weight really starts to go up, but thats going to be the same with any other commercial mower out there.

JDeereZman
12-13-2010, 09:21 PM
JDzman, you're doing a good job, "bashing" been provoked by arrogance of some "big jd" guys, who started picking on small exmark - how superior they are, "best money can buy" - not against you
guys who work on factories - does a good job, but "superiors", r&d, etc doesn't pulling the weight - only adding extra

with all possibilities jd have, they really need to go through BIGGEST LOOSER, rise performance numbers (at least on one model), shed some extra weight (like200-300 lbs), instead of only pimping-up luxury "slow, big, mean fat machine"

I really wish you would name exactly who the "big jd" guys are and exactly what they did or said to small Exmark? And what the R & D people are doing/not doing to pull their weight? You are not describing anyone that I know in our R & D.

demhustler
12-14-2010, 02:48 AM
seems like all of them... you could be the first who put any afford to get reed of all this pimping at least on one model (were "build your mower" would mean really - build, and all this extra weight - optional), model which could be BADAS - not just FATAS like now

zo6
12-14-2010, 04:48 AM
man, you do have very little idea ... "the best"? : )))))

richard - as you can see - each pig praises their own mud puddle - they don't know better...
Geezz, jd ... Its far from the best : )))) - too heavy, too slow, to expensive:
Only 25hp mower is up to 1500lbs, only 12mph even transport speed... - see, they never saw or even know anything better, and expecting people to pay for combine harvesters wasn't sold, 100-ton equipment, sitting without work, and for ceo salaries and vocation perks on caribbean - all included in "paint and jd cap" : )))))

p.s. On jd standers -they still couldn't manage to improve operator's platform design -ridiculous: It still have this tiny gap where operator squeezes his feet and since operator position shifted too far to the front - it has to carry huge dead weight on the rear as counterweight...



i hope these guys realize that their arguing over the two biggest p.o.s. Commercial mowers on the market today...(MEANING THE JOHN JUNKS AND DIXIES, NOT EXMARKS) BOBCAT IS WHERE ITS AT, BAR NONE...

bradseabridge
12-14-2010, 09:54 AM
you have to be kidding.

Richard Martin
12-14-2010, 10:35 AM
you have to be kidding.

He was sleep typing.... Obviously a bad dream....

demhustler
12-14-2010, 02:48 PM
:laugh: when you think - you saw it all ... :laugh: .... whatewer

KFLAWN
12-14-2010, 03:14 PM
i hope these guys realize that their arguing over the two biggest p.o.s. Commercial mowers on the market today...(MEANING THE JOHN JUNKS AND DIXIES, NOT EXMARKS) BOBCAT IS WHERE ITS AT, BAR NONE...

Bobcat is dirty. you must not be able to afford a xmark

demhustler
12-14-2010, 03:43 PM
what a sweet thread - "except this or maybe - that, everything else - junk" : ))))

p.s. should it inevitably come to this?
...before it closed...

bradseabridge
12-14-2010, 03:53 PM
I like Husqvarna and Wright so now what, they are pretty good quality wouldn't you all agree?

demhustler
12-14-2010, 04:42 PM
it's out of topic; this thread - about exmark and jd
there is threads for each OEM, one vs. another, plenty "what's the best mower?" threads ...

JDeereZman
12-14-2010, 06:10 PM
i hope these guys realize that their arguing over the two biggest p.o.s. Commercial mowers on the market today...(MEANING THE JOHN JUNKS AND DIXIES, NOT EXMARKS) BOBCAT IS WHERE ITS AT, BAR NONE...

At least I have found one thing I can agree on with Demhustler, this has gotten way off topic. Your comment referring to Exmark and JD both as P.O.S.'s is pretty sad. I have been on just about every ZTR on the market, Bobcat included and I haven't been on one yet that I would refer to as a P.O.S. I don't think I could ever refer to anyone's work or efforts that way, especially knowing what it takes to manufacture any piece of mowing equipment but if it that's what floats your boat go ahead.

zo6
12-15-2010, 01:31 AM
at least i have found one thing i can agree on with demhustler, this has gotten way off topic. Your comment referring to exmark and jd both as p.o.s.'s is pretty sad. I have been on just about every ztr on the market, bobcat included and i haven't been on one yet that i would refer to as a p.o.s. I don't think i could ever refer to anyone's work or efforts that way, especially knowing what it takes to manufacture any piece of mowing equipment but if it that's what floats your boat go ahead.

maybe i misspoke, exmarks are actually pretty nice, probably would be my second choice if i ever left bobcats, what i meant to say was the dixies and john junks are p.o.s, moreso the dixies than th john junks, but they are still pretty bad in comparison, the cut quality is horrible, i coundnt leave a lawn looking that bad after mowing with a dixie or a john junk.

Richard Martin
12-15-2010, 02:34 AM
what i meant to say was the dixies and john junks are p.o.s, moreso the dixies than th john junks, but they are still pretty bad in comparison, the cut quality is horrible, i coundnt leave a lawn looking that bad after mowing with a dixie or a john junk.

I agree. Who would want to leave a lawn looking like this...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/RMartin631/mower%20stuff/DSCN0699.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/RMartin631/mower%20stuff/DSCN0694.jpg

Rarely is a bad cut the fault of the mower. Usually the operators may be in a hurry, don't care, their mower has been neglected or mowing conditions are poor.

zo6
12-15-2010, 02:44 AM
bobcat is dirty. You must not be able to afford a xmark

lmao,,,, bobcats were 200 bucks less than bobcats in 09 when i bought my 3 ztr's... Trust me bud, moneys not the problem, worked iin a mower shop from age 6 to age 16, the reason i run bobcats is simple, nothing,and i mean nothing, cuts as good as a bobcat. Xmark would be my second choice,ill give ya that, but its a distant second, as for scag, john junk, grasshoppers, and toros, all garbage cut quality imo...

KFLAWN
12-15-2010, 04:14 AM
lmao,,,, bobcats were 200 bucks less than bobcats in 09 when i bought my 3 ztr's... Trust me bud, moneys not the problem, worked iin a mower shop from age 6 to age 16, the reason i run bobcats is simple, nothing,and i mean nothing, cuts as good as a bobcat. Xmark would be my second choice,ill give ya that, but its a distant second, as for scag, john junk, grasshoppers, and toros, all garbage cut quality imo...

thats fine . you are entitled to your opionion, bud. That lawn looks good Richard. After all what would we know about a lawn looking good, hes worked in a mower shop fro 6 to 16.

zo6
12-15-2010, 06:40 AM
thats fine . You are entitled to your opionion, bud. That lawn looks good richard. After all what would we know about a lawn looking good, hes worked in a mower shop fro 6 to 16.

meaning i have run damn near any mower out there,and been mowin ever since, bud... And that lawn does look good, but not bobcat good, just forget it, your obviously out of my league.

KFLAWN
12-15-2010, 12:07 PM
lol... bud we have run just about everything too. Not just in the shop while working for daddy. Hell we have 2 bobcat ztrs, also have a ferris, 2 dixies, and 2 exmarks... so? whats your point? I can go at this all day bud. You are just some yuppie who is stuck up bob-cats ass. When in reality have you seen their new mower? HAHA

KFLAWN
12-15-2010, 12:13 PM
bob-cats redesigned mower lmao

Patriot Services
12-15-2010, 12:19 PM
Looks more like an estate or high end res mower. That seat looks comfy though. Sturdy looking deck. Anybody got one?
Posted via Mobile Device

JDeereZman
12-15-2010, 06:54 PM
maybe i misspoke, exmarks are actually pretty nice, probably would be my second choice if i ever left bobcats, what i meant to say was the dixies and john junks are p.o.s, moreso the dixies than th john junks, but they are still pretty bad in comparison, the cut quality is horrible, i coundnt leave a lawn looking that bad after mowing with a dixie or a john junk.

Oh ok I get it....it's ALL about the equipment and has nothing to do with the operator?

I MOW ALONE
12-15-2010, 07:30 PM
maybe i misspoke, exmarks are actually pretty nice, probably would be my second choice if i ever left bobcats, what i meant to say was the dixies and john junks are p.o.s, moreso the dixies than th john junks, but they are still pretty bad in comparison, the cut quality is horrible, i coundnt leave a lawn looking that bad after mowing with a dixie or a john junk.

all i can say is search for eric elms stripes and then tell me a dixie cant stripe.

demhustler
12-15-2010, 07:43 PM
bob-cats redesigned mower lmao
since thread hijacked already....
any more info on new developments?

strange, there is no weight data in current models specs and on site at all
http://www.bobcatturf.com/products/
http://www.bobcatturf.com/products/pdf/spec_sheets/BOB-CAT_PredatorPro_LP_Spec_Sheet.pdf

LawnCareNoobie
12-15-2010, 08:09 PM
maybe i misspoke, exmarks are actually pretty nice, probably would be my second choice if i ever left bobcats, what i meant to say was the dixies and john junks are p.o.s, moreso the dixies than th john junks, but they are still pretty bad in comparison, the cut quality is horrible, i coundnt leave a lawn looking that bad after mowing with a dixie or a john junk.

You are a very stupid individual. I almost feel sorry for you.

Anybody will take your words with a grain of salt from now on. If they haven't already...

bradseabridge
12-15-2010, 08:18 PM
I do now, what the hell is he talking about?... I want to see some pictures of these HOLIER THAN THOU BOBCAT STRIPES!! they must be god like to look better than Richards dixie or my Husqvarna walk behind. Not to toot my own horn, but my Husq WB stripes and cuts fantastically.

bradseabridge
12-15-2010, 08:19 PM
bob-cats redesigned mower lmao

What the hell is that? a green TORO TIMECUTTER?

LawnCareNoobie
12-15-2010, 08:51 PM
I do now, what the hell is he talking about?... I want to see some pictures of these HOLIER THAN THOU BOBCAT STRIPES!! they must be god like to look better than Richards dixie or my Husqvarna walk behind. Not to toot my own horn, but my Husq WB stripes and cuts fantastically.

Overall the majority of commercial mowers cut and stripe pretty decent anyways. Some better than others obviously, but this guy is absolutely ridiculous to say such things. How in the world does he manage a business (if he really has one) with this kind of ignorance and attitude? Unless it's just a huge alter-ego...I doubt it though.

KFLAWN
12-15-2010, 09:34 PM
wow you guys owned him! hahah

bradseabridge
12-15-2010, 09:47 PM
Overall the majority of commercial mowers cut and stripe pretty decent anyways. Some better than others obviously, but this guy is absolutely ridiculous to say such things. How in the world does he manage a business (if he really has one) with this kind of ignorance and attitude? Unless it's just a huge alter-ego...I doubt it though.

Yeah really, I don't know how he could ever get work with a negative attitude like that. So obnoxious, and like you said the majority all the big names will cut and stripe very well. I mean damn I can make my Honda 21 stripe. IDK.

wow you guys owned him! hahah

I try.

JDeereZman
12-15-2010, 10:30 PM
[QUOTE=bradseabridge;3825088]Yeah really, I don't know how he could ever get work with a negative attitude like that. So obnoxious, and like you said the majority all the big names will cut and stripe very well. I mean damn I can make my Honda 21 stripe. IDK.

I've heard it said by many professionals that a real pro that knows what he is doing can make any lawn look good with any piece of equipment. I guess zo6 is the exception to that.

zo6
12-16-2010, 01:18 AM
wow you guys owned him! hahah

YA YOU GUYS ARE REALLY TEARIN ME UP HERE, HAVE FUN ON ALL YOUR HIGH QUALITY MOWERS, IM OBVIOUSLY THE IGNORANT ONE.. LMAO:waving:

KFLAWN
12-16-2010, 03:55 AM
ya you guys are really tearin me up here, have fun on all your high quality mowers, im obviously the ignorant one.. Lmao:waving:
YEP, YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!:clapping:

JLlandscapes
03-16-2011, 01:24 AM
no, speed - one of objective factors which included in productivity, and here jd marks -poor, far from the best

well i wouldn't say far from the best it goes 12 MILES PER HOUR!!!!!!!!! thats plenty fast if you ask me, and thats all exmark does. And just curious after reading through this thread..... have you ever driven a z900? cause if you haven't you shouldn't say "far from the best" until you have tested something out.

Snyder's Lawn Inc
03-16-2011, 01:54 AM
tested alot mowers over the yrs realy only found one i like most
The ride and cut what I like My 2011 unit is only one comes with a spring under the seat all my others has no spring under the seat They ride like a dream

KFLAWN
03-16-2011, 03:34 AM
def. need the suspension seat