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YardFarmersLLC
06-23-2010, 05:13 PM
First off, hello! I am new to this forum, and need some input on some problems with a machine I have.

First off, in 2007 I purchased a new zero turn mower, brand name (will not release name yet). It is a very well built mower, with a 60" cut, and 26 horse liquid cooled kawasaki gas engine. It has been a beast. I do not mow a huge lot of ground, as it is not my main industry. I now have almost 500 hours on the machine. I was so impressed with it that when I needed a new mower in 2008, I wanted another one. The local dealer had gone out of business, so I contacted the factory, and drove 8+ hours to get a demo unit...

Here is where the trouble starts. The demo is the same brand, but a better series, still 60" cut, but with better hydro output, a few more bells and whistles, and best of all (or so I thought), it had a 28 hp 3 cyl CAT diesel. I bought it, and got what seemed like a good deal, especially with full warranty. It had 125 hours at purchase. Around 175 hours, the engine blew up. They fought with me like cats and dogs, but finally replaced the engine because I could prove it was not neglect that caused the failure. I was happy, for a while.

Here is a list of the parts that have broke in the past year, all under normal wear, all in under 450 total hours, and with the mower being extremely well cared for. Keep in mind that my gas version has been practically flawless.

Late summer and fall 2009:

Engine blew up- tried to charge $5000, but they warrantied it.

No flat tire and rim seperated. $90

Both pieces that connect steering handles to pump broke different weeks. They are like a mini ball-joint deal the ball fell out of the socket, crashed me on two seperate occasions. I bought aftermarkets at the hardware store.

Regularly greased wheel bearing where the bolt goes through front caster wheel went out mid-season. I had to do the labor, but they sent me parts. Several days of downtime.

This Year:

Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing. Machine Shop repair.

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle. Machine shop repair.

Spindle housing broke off of frame. Machine shop repair.

The rear of deck is held by chains, front by turn buckle adjusters. One of the chain adjuster broke, deck smacks the ground.

Two weeks later, opposite chain hanger breaks, scalps customers yard.

Latch to shut hood broke.

Last week the throttle cable broke. still broke.

This morning I performed my regular service. Oil, good. Water, good. Blades, sharp. Grease, check. Hydro oil, full. Tires, good. Fuel, filled up. Air filter clean. We also cleaned the radiator and screen. Today while mowing, the engine overheated. Radiator still clean, water still good.

I honestly cannot rely on this mower for any amount of time, and it is a $12,500 mower!! The warranty department had been giving me a run around, but I finally got through to someone on up the chain of command. They want me to bring it to the factory, and trade it on a basic model gas unit, and GIVE BOOT! If I wanted to get raped, I would not loose money to get it done.


I know it sounds like the this mower had been abused by me and my crew. However, the gas continues to run with no problem, and they mow the same ground every week, at the same time, with the same operators, and the same conditions. Actually the gas is getting more use because the diesel stays broke. Both are treated well.

What are some opinions? I promised not to talk bad about them until they have a chance to make everything right, so the brand has not been released yet. PLEASE give me some insight here. I plan to go to the factory (8 hour drive) this coming monday. :hammerhead:

big_belly4ever
06-23-2010, 06:42 PM
Sounds like my bad boy 60 26 kaw almost all that as happen to me. i have no dealer near me and called got parts fixed and go it going.(bought it used so no warranty). Sucks when its down but i would still buy another from all the ones I've tried. they have helped me when I called. The amount of lawns I cut with it somethings going to wear out keep things well greased front wheels if you don't you see what happen and for god sakes keep screen on radiator Clean. Park it and use the old fashion wheel mower if your going to keep complain its not a show piece. They must love you. [I] feel your pain on the engine. the rest to me is wear and tear. I stock parts i cant afford down time either.My back up is a L130 JD rider talk about long days.

YardFarmersLLC
06-24-2010, 06:28 PM
Hey guys I don't want this thread to die, I need some input. What do you all think would be a fair resolution?

topsites
06-24-2010, 06:48 PM
A fair resolution...

I bought my 60" Ztr 4 years ago and I've put 250 hours on the meter,
and maybe it's close to 300 but I ain't walking outside in a 100 degree heat just to look, it's in there.

I'll give you that I only use the Z for lots upwards of an acre (and bigger) but mowing is my main line of work,
I don't have a ton of large lots, maybe 6, 7 or 8 acre+ lots, have had these for some time, some years better than others.
And I mostly use the Wb's on everything else, so the Z gets the least use, sure.

In comparison...

This guy puts 500 hours on it in 2 years, says it's not his main line of work and he doesn't use it much...
Roughly speaking that's cutting somewhere between 600 to 1,000 acres of grass and like it or not but
in my book that's either very regular or maybe even heavy use, and thus this type of maintenance is to be expected.

Maybe not, maybe I'm wrong, just comparing what I do...
Think about cutting 300+ acres in one year, by yourself with one machine, is it a lot of mowing or not?
Just like on a car, they shouldn't break down in the first 50,000 miles, but don't they?

I'll stay neutral on the engine issue, and granted some are made better than others but such is life.

JB1
06-24-2010, 06:52 PM
i would of already sold it.

topsites
06-24-2010, 07:02 PM
This...

Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing. Machine Shop repair.

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle. Machine shop repair.

Spindle housing broke off of frame. Machine shop repair.

I honestly cannot rely on this mower for any amount of time, and it is a $12,500 mower!!

The chain, yes those do break.

But I do find those particular parts right there should not have broken, not
on anything costing more than several thousand dollars.

Now if they want to give you a nice gasser, even if it's worth less, your
mower is no longer worth 12g's regardless of breakdowns, just counting
standard depreciation...

Usually I get a whole lot less satisfaction out of these warranty departments, it's not that I don't know the feeling.
Anyhow, for what it's worth, just another opinion.

YardFarmersLLC
06-24-2010, 08:16 PM
A fair resolution...

I bought my 60" Ztr 4 years ago and I've put 250 hours on the meter,
and maybe it's close to 300 but I ain't walking outside in a 100 degree heat just to look, it's in there.

I'll give you that I only use the Z for lots upwards of an acre (and bigger) but mowing is my main line of work,
I don't have a ton of large lots, maybe 6, 7 or 8 acre+ lots, have had these for some time, some years better than others.
And I mostly use the Wb's on everything else, so the Z gets the least use, sure.

In comparison...

This guy puts 500 hours on it in 2 years, says it's not his main line of work and he doesn't use it much...
Roughly speaking that's cutting somewhere between 600 to 1,000 acres of grass and like it or not but
in my book that's either very regular or maybe even heavy use, and thus this type of maintenance is to be expected.

Maybe not, maybe I'm wrong, just comparing what I do...
Think about cutting 300+ acres in one year, by yourself with one machine, is it a lot of mowing or not?
Just like on a car, they shouldn't break down in the first 50,000 miles, but don't they?

I'll stay neutral on the engine issue, and granted some are made better than others but such is life.

I put around 250 hours on it in less than a season and a half. I should have put many more than that on it, had it not been broke down. I have just seen too many competitors with Ex, Hopper, Skag, Gravely, and others run them 3500+ hours on air cooled engines and not have as much down time as I have. Plus their guys run them like idiots. I run mine very sensibly. I am putting up some of my pics of the jobs I do in the pic section.

MOturkey
06-24-2010, 09:09 PM
Two hundred fifty hours a year, is not all that many hours. The 2009 I bought last May has already rolled over 400, and we have two Z's. The 07 I sold my son-in-law last fall had 932 hours, so I don't call 250 or so hours a year "heavy" use either.

Since 2003, I've purchased 4 Gravely 200 series mowers. If my memory is accurate, I've put around 2100 hours, collectively, on them, and although I've had several PITA issues with them through the years, the only major repair has been a wheel motor on my 2002 which blew shortly after the warranty expired, but they replaced it under warranty anyway. Never broke anything more expensive than a belt or two.

gene gls
06-24-2010, 10:30 PM
Sounds like your a member of the Hustler family. It takes deep pockets to keep them running.

lifetree
06-24-2010, 11:22 PM
... in my book that's either very regular or maybe even heavy use, and thus this type of maintenance is to be expected. ...

I agree !!

SchnabelLawnCare
06-24-2010, 11:23 PM
He has bad boy mowers in the pic section...
Posted via Mobile Device

lawns Etc
06-24-2010, 11:55 PM
DEffinately what I was thinking. Chains in rear and turnbuckles in front along with a 28 Cat. BB all the way

big acres
06-25-2010, 12:07 AM
Hey guys I don't want this thread to die, I need some input. What do you all think would be a fair resolution?

I think you are taking them to court... the court of public opinion here on LS.

Why not name them? We had a similar experience with a Lesco years ago.

It wasn't the greatest machine when it ran good, the this one was a lemon -period.

They gave us a new machine. If your manufacturer wanted to step up, they should do it now.

YardFarmersLLC
06-25-2010, 05:47 AM
They are Bad Boy mowers. I have several folks here at home who were about to buy some Bad Boys waiting to hear what they do about this. I sold them several mowers already, and now feel like an idiot for persuading people in that direction, after they now see me loading mine back up before the job is done week in and week out.

bradsd
06-25-2010, 09:03 AM
Sounds like a crew issue to me. No way a Bad Boy mower breaks down like that ( or any well built mower). They are built like freaking tanks. I suspect you got a crew that is abusing the mower! You might be surprised what goes on while you are away esp if your crew is young men.

cujrh10
06-25-2010, 09:21 AM
Sounds like a crew issue to me. No way a Bad Boy mower breaks down like that ( or any well built mower). They are built like freaking tanks. I suspect you got a crew that is abusing the mower! You might be surprised what goes on while you are away esp if your crew is young men.

I think I take the man at his word as opposed to coming on this website and calling a complete stranger to me a liar. I havent purchased my first big ZTR but when I do it will be from the pool of exmark,scag,hustler,ferris,toro and pretty much in that order. sticking with the kaw also because its been an absolute beast on the exmark TT i've used.

I hope this pans out partner. I've got an exmark dealer in my area from which I nearly bought a lazer z from this year. They told me if the mower ever breaks down to just call them and they will show up to the property you're at, drop off a temp unit, load your unit, haul it back to the shop and service it (as long as its under warranty). Thats where I'll probably be buying my first unit.

best of luck man!

Hawg City Lawns
06-25-2010, 09:21 AM
sounds like you have a lemon

Mowingman
06-25-2010, 09:39 AM
It seems to me like you are somewhat justified in your attitude toward the manufacturer of your ZTR. If, you have indeed taken good care of the machine, then the manufacturer should be at least somewhat agreeable to helping more on warranty. That is quite a list of failures for a low hour machine.
Knowing who made that machine, I think you are seeing the start of problems with that company. For years, they have been building what seem to be good mowers, but selling them cheap to buy market share. I think they have not included enough, if any, money into their selling price to cover future warranty costs on the machines. Now, it is starting to catch up with them.

Mike Blevins
06-25-2010, 11:12 AM
I can hear my old dad now. " Son You get what you pay for in this ol world."

br549oicu8
06-25-2010, 11:59 AM
I agree with the post about trading it back for a gasser. It sounds like you are responsible at taking care of your equipment. Get out from under it if possible with the factory.. I think you'll be money and headaches ahead from the sound of it.
A few years ago Wright sold off some Sentars directly to the public. I made the HUGE mistake of buying 3 of them. HUGE MISTAKE!
They were a total pice of crap and I got little to no support or sympathy from Wright Mfg.
I do confess to still owning 5 Standers and a Velke. They have been fine. My DEALERS make sure of that!
I just wouldn't give you one cent for a Sentar unless neeing a boat anchor.
Good luck with your ventures. Talking on here helps keep the factory in check too. Bad PR is good for nothing...

twcw5804
06-25-2010, 12:22 PM
I would sell both. Too much driving to go through with no local support, or from the factory. I would call them and let them know your mowers are up for sale and you've posted about your experience on here and see where that gets you.

br549oicu8
06-25-2010, 01:20 PM
I would sell both. Too much driving to go through with no local support, or from the factory. I would call them and let them know your mowers are up for sale and you've posted about your experience on here and see where that gets you.

Imagine walking around the GIE Expo with a shirt that read:
"I GOT SCREWED OVER BY (WHATEVER) MOWERS"
BEWARE!

YardFarmersLLC
06-25-2010, 01:31 PM
One reason I posted this is to get other folks opinion. I appreciate all of them, and will have a printed copy of this page when I go to Arkansas Monday morning. They need to know that they are in the public eye.

And to whoever thought it was due to a bad crew, Last year I ran the mower exclusively. This year it has been an experienced 54 year old in charge of the crew. And another important factor is that when the diesel is down, the operator of it goes to the gas mower. The guy that used the gas gets put on the old walk behind. The guy with the most experience and ability gets the most expensive and most capable mower. The diesel also striped best, so when breaking in new guys, they got sent to the back 40 somewhere (or put on my yard) on the gas.

All in all, the diesel has had a good life when it comes to care. It has two pieces of bent up metal, due to it causing me to wreck when the control arms broke, or from when she overheats and shuts down on a big hillside.

bradsd
06-25-2010, 01:34 PM
I think I take the man at his word as opposed to coming on this website and calling a complete stranger to me a liar. I havent purchased my first big ZTR but when I do it will be from the pool of exmark,scag,hustler,ferris,toro and pretty much in that order. sticking with the kaw also because its been an absolute beast on the exmark TT i've used.

I hope this pans out partner. I've got an exmark dealer in my area from which I nearly bought a lazer z from this year. They told me if the mower ever breaks down to just call them and they will show up to the property you're at, drop off a temp unit, load your unit, haul it back to the shop and service it (as long as its under warranty). Thats where I'll probably be buying my first unit.

best of luck man!

Im not calling the man a liar, im just saying something is up here.
1) Seaperated rim

coolluv
06-25-2010, 01:36 PM
First off, hello! I am new to this forum, and need some input on some problems with a machine I have.

First off, in 2007 I purchased a new zero turn mower, brand name (will not release name yet). It is a very well built mower, with a 60" cut, and 26 horse liquid cooled kawasaki gas engine. It has been a beast. I do not mow a huge lot of ground, as it is not my main industry. I now have almost 500 hours on the machine. I was so impressed with it that when I needed a new mower in 2008, I wanted another one. The local dealer had gone out of business, so I contacted the factory, and drove 8+ hours to get a demo unit...

Here is where the trouble starts. The demo is the same brand, but a better series, still 60" cut, but with better hydro output, a few more bells and whistles, and best of all (or so I thought), it had a 28 hp 3 cyl CAT diesel. I bought it, and got what seemed like a good deal, especially with full warranty. It had 125 hours at purchase. Around 175 hours, the engine blew up. They fought with me like cats and dogs, but finally replaced the engine because I could prove it was not neglect that caused the failure. I was happy, for a while.

Here is a list of the parts that have broke in the past year, all under normal wear, all in under 450 total hours, and with the mower being extremely well cared for. Keep in mind that my gas version has been practically flawless.

Late summer and fall 2009:

Engine blew up- tried to charge $5000, but they warrantied it.

No flat tire and rim seperated. $90

Both pieces that connect steering handles to pump broke different weeks. They are like a mini ball-joint deal the ball fell out of the socket, crashed me on two seperate occasions. I bought aftermarkets at the hardware store.

Regularly greased wheel bearing where the bolt goes through front caster wheel went out mid-season. I had to do the labor, but they sent me parts. Several days of downtime.

This Year:

Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing. Machine Shop repair.

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle. Machine shop repair.

Spindle housing broke off of frame. Machine shop repair.

The rear of deck is held by chains, front by turn buckle adjusters. One of the chain adjuster broke, deck smacks the ground.

Two weeks later, opposite chain hanger breaks, scalps customers yard.

Latch to shut hood broke.

Last week the throttle cable broke. still broke.

This morning I performed my regular service. Oil, good. Water, good. Blades, sharp. Grease, check. Hydro oil, full. Tires, good. Fuel, filled up. Air filter clean. We also cleaned the radiator and screen. Today while mowing, the engine overheated. Radiator still clean, water still good.

I honestly cannot rely on this mower for any amount of time, and it is a $12,500 mower!! The warranty department had been giving me a run around, but I finally got through to someone on up the chain of command. They want me to bring it to the factory, and trade it on a basic model gas unit, and GIVE BOOT! If I wanted to get raped, I would not loose money to get it done.


I know it sounds like the this mower had been abused by me and my crew. However, the gas continues to run with no problem, and they mow the same ground every week, at the same time, with the same operators, and the same conditions. Actually the gas is getting more use because the diesel stays broke. Both are treated well.

What are some opinions? I promised not to talk bad about them until they have a chance to make everything right, so the brand has not been released yet. PLEASE give me some insight here. I plan to go to the factory (8 hour drive) this coming monday. :hammerhead:

Some times you just get a lemon. Do you have pictures of the pieces that broke? Were they bad welds or just Chinese made junk? I would also suspect that it is operator abuse. Only you would know that for sure. Some people get a diesel and they think they can beat the crap out of it because, hey its a diesel. Your guys might be treating this machine different then the other. Things don't just break. Either its a bad weld or cheap bearings or junk metal etc. or operator abuse.

You should be able to tell if it just failed or if it was abused. Ive had lemons before and you just need to cut your loses and move on. Take the deal they are giving you and don't look back.

Dave...

bradsd
06-25-2010, 01:37 PM
2 broken handles, broken forks those things are thick heavy metal, broken spindel most likely from someone hitting something very hard, broken chain hangars from bouncing very hard over something very rough. The dealer is going to think abuse and I can see why. I do not mean any desrespect to this man at all but it just seems odd to me. I wonder if he is with his crew all the time or if they go out without him.

Sorry for the seaperated post not sure why it posted mid typing, guess I made a mistake.

YardFarmersLLC
06-25-2010, 01:49 PM
I was told by an employee at the factory that mine being a demo it had probably been abused before I got it, and that also many of the demos were produced with experimental parts, as in Chinese company calls and says "hey, let us send you some parts to try out and if you like them we can sell them to you for half what you are paying now."

At that point they may say ok, send some to us. They go on demos, and the mower is sold before it has time to break. Sound logical?


I found this info out recently, long after I bought the demo mower.

coolluv
06-25-2010, 01:59 PM
I was told by an employee at the factory that mine being a demo it had probably been abused before I got it, and that also many of the demos were produced with experimental parts, as in Chinese company calls and says "hey, let us send you some parts to try out and if you like them we can sell them to you for half what you are paying now."

At that point they may say ok, send some to us. They go on demos, and the mower is sold before it has time to break. Sound logical?


I found this info out recently, long after I bought the demo mower.

Well if you could prove that they used inferior parts then I would want a full refund. You didn't get what you thought you paid for. I would also be wary of a demo unit with 125 hours on it. Every redneck trying to push the mower to its limits comes to mind. Like I said, its a diesel so lets see what this baby will do!

Next time bite the bullet and buy new. I wouldn't have bought one with that many hours on it. Too many yahooos operating it.

Dave...

YardFarmersLLC
06-25-2010, 02:43 PM
They made it sound like it had only been used by them to mow at the factory. It came out after the purchase that it had been to a dealer and used like any demo
Posted via Mobile Device

Mike Blevins
06-26-2010, 12:40 PM
Let us know if you get this issue resolved. There is nothing more aggrivating than things tearing up all the time.

MOturkey
06-26-2010, 03:09 PM
Some of you on here might be old enough to remember a commercial for Ford trucks made probably in the 70's, to advertise their independent front wheel suspension. They drove a 4X4 up a huge pile of concrete blocks.

Well, a guy I knew said he ended up buying that truck! Somehow, someone goofed up and released it to a dealer. Said the thing had so many broken parts it wasn't even funny! Took them a while to figure out what the problem was. In his case, they eventually gave him another truck, if memory serves me correctly.

I'm wondering if something like this might be the case with this machine, as it certainly sounds as if it has been absued.

YardFarmersLLC
06-26-2010, 04:43 PM
I fear it could have 100 hours of this on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgap6QoGXog

ed2hess
06-26-2010, 05:08 PM
Wonder how this would play out if you still owed a bunch of money on it?

HenryB
06-26-2010, 05:41 PM
I'll tell everyone the real problem. It's a diesel. That in itself is a good thing but these manufacturers want to offer a diesel mower thats designed on a gasoline ZTR frame. For a huge heavy diesel ZTR they have to redesign everything from the ground up. Hustler had similar issues with their diesel a few years ago. Everyone wants a diesel but sometimes it's really not for their application. It's like jamming a powerstroke diesel in a Ford Ranger.:nono:

PROCUT1
06-26-2010, 05:52 PM
Sometimes you "pay for the name" and there is reason to it.

Ive owned a lot of off brand stuff that I use occasionally and it gets the job done.

But for anything I would use everyday, I would stick with a name brand.

Its like those chinese tractors you see in the magazines that are $15,000 and a John Deere that seems to have the same specs and look the same is $30,000.

Need a tractor one a month, go for it. But to run one everyday, I trust a name brand thats been around a while first.

topsites
06-26-2010, 07:56 PM
I'm guessing you'll edit this out of the print you're taking to the factory?
It might not be convenient to show them this.

Because I'm still saying 500 hours is a LOT of use, I did look at my 4 year old's hour meter today, 243.5
In another thread a guy was talking about 3 years on a Ztr with 160 hours.
And yes that is low use, these are the kind of hours I would expect to hear from someone claiming
to not use it a whole lot, in 2 years I want to hear 50, 100, maybe 150 or 200 hours but not 500!

So I am sorry but you folks who act like a thousand hours is nothing,
when it takes a solo close to 20 years to put that many hours on a Z,
I am telling you 500 hours is a LOT of use.

Especially for someone who claims mowing isn't their main line and it doesn't get used much.
And they did offer you a trade in, might not have been the full cash refund you almost seem to be after but man...

Take what you can get and call it a day.

tacoma200
06-26-2010, 09:00 PM
I fear it could have 100 hours of this on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgap6QoGXog

Just wondering about where our closest dealer is. I think Valley Farm Equipment in Science hill is our closest dealer? Is that correct? Bad Boy at one time anyway was pretty good on customer service according to this forum. Hopefully you just got a lemon and they can take care of you. I've only seen one Bad Boy in Somerset but I don't go there that much. Oh yeah, does Valley Farm offer service on the CAT diesel ?

ff162bfd
06-26-2010, 10:45 PM
I'll tell everyone the real problem. It's a diesel. That in itself is a good thing but these manufacturers want to offer a diesel mower thats designed on a gasoline ZTR frame. For a huge heavy diesel ZTR they have to redesign everything from the ground up. Hustler had similar issues with their diesel a few years ago. Everyone wants a diesel but sometimes it's really not for their application. It's like jamming a powerstroke diesel in a Ford Ranger.:nono:

The diesel is a little over 150lbs heavier and made on an even stronger frame. Just because one company had an issue does not mean they all will.

ff162bfd
06-26-2010, 10:52 PM
First mistake was you bought a demo!! When I test out a demo I run the crap out of it and I am sure this one has been through the same abuse. You are lucky they have covered those problems under warranty.

I run my BB what I consider to be pretty hard and if you can break any of the welds or running gear your crew is abusing equipment.

LwnmwrMan22
06-26-2010, 10:55 PM
I'm guessing you'll edit this out of the print you're taking to the factory?
It might not be convenient to show them this.

Because I'm still saying 500 hours is a LOT of use, I did look at my 4 year old's hour meter today, 243.5
In another thread a guy was talking about 3 years on a Ztr with 160 hours.
And yes that is low use, these are the kind of hours I would expect to hear from someone claiming
to not use it a whole lot, in 2 years I want to hear 50, 100, maybe 150 or 200 hours but not 500!

So I am sorry but you folks who act like a thousand hours is nothing,
when it takes a solo close to 20 years to put that many hours on a Z,
I am telling you 500 hours is a LOT of use.

Especially for someone who claims mowing isn't their main line and it doesn't get used much.
And they did offer you a trade in, might not have been the full cash refund you almost seem to be after but man...

Take what you can get and call it a day.

I agree with topsites, 500 hours is a good amount of use, especially if it was broke down as much as you say.

With that said, there's still no reason to be broke down.

For $12,500, you could have bought a Kubota ZD331 with a 60" deck.

I've got 1300 hours on my 72". It was new in the spring of 2007, so just over 3 years.

We mow 7 days / week. Most days the 60"ers run, but we mow 5 schools, as well as 19 parks for a city, so those 4 days it runs about 8 hours / day for a 22-24 week mowing season.

I change the oil 2 times / season, grease everything 3 times / season.

Nothing has broke yet. I have multiple guys run these mowers, even the wife.

Original poster - here's something for you to think about. I too have a guy that's 45 years old, a pastor, my cousin's husband.

He's a VERY responsible guy. However, he's broken more equipment than ANYONE that I've had work for me.

Last winter he rolled a truck while plowing. He always feels bad, but he's basically a clutz. Just something for you to think about, especially if you have the same guy on a specific machine repeatedly.

ff162bfd
06-26-2010, 11:04 PM
Why did you pay 12,500 for a demo compact diesel? They are 9,999 brand new.

Hawg City Lawns
06-27-2010, 12:35 AM
I'm guessing you'll edit this out of the print you're taking to the factory?
It might not be convenient to show them this.

Because I'm still saying 500 hours is a LOT of use, I did look at my 4 year old's hour meter today, 243.5
In another thread a guy was talking about 3 years on a Ztr with 160 hours.
And yes that is low use, these are the kind of hours I would expect to hear from someone claiming
to not use it a whole lot, in 2 years I want to hear 50, 100, maybe 150 or 200 hours but not 500!

So I am sorry but you folks who act like a thousand hours is nothing,
when it takes a solo close to 20 years to put that many hours on a Z,
I am telling you 500 hours is a LOT of use.

Especially for someone who claims mowing isn't their main line and it doesn't get used much.
And they did offer you a trade in, might not have been the full cash refund you almost seem to be after but man...

Take what you can get and call it a day.

in two years ive put a little over 200 on mine mowing 17 accounts on some accounts the z gets used 100% of the time then theres sometimes the z is just a big trailer weight

YardFarmersLLC
06-27-2010, 06:13 AM
At that time the mower listed for 12500. Being a demo I gave 8500 for it
Posted via Mobile Device

YardFarmersLLC
06-27-2010, 06:17 AM
in two years ive put a little over 200 on mine mowing 17 accounts on some accounts the z gets used 100% of the time then theres sometimes the z is just a big trailer weight

What people are not looking at is that the mower currently has 450 hours on it. Bought with 125-150. That means that in a year and a half I have put 300 ish hours on it. Not alot for the a year and a half
Posted via Mobile Device

PROCUT1
06-27-2010, 08:56 AM
450 hours is nothing. I used to figure on 800-1000 per season on a ztr
Posted via Mobile Device

YardFarmersLLC
06-27-2010, 09:20 AM
450 hours is nothing. I used to figure on 800-1000 per season on a ztr
Posted via Mobile Device

That's right. A well built zero should be capable of 2500 trouble free hours
Posted via Mobile Device

MOturkey
06-27-2010, 09:32 AM
Topsites, I respect a lot of what you say on this board. I can tell you are an intelligent guy, but the fact is, none of those parts should have failed at less than 500 hours on a non-abused machine, whether those hours were put on in one summer, or over a 10 year period. I'm taking the man's word that he nor his crew, has abused the machine, and the fact that the older gas mower has had no problems, seems to back that up.

That leads me to the conclusion that either, A. The mower he purchased is just a lemon, with some defective parts or manufacturing defects, or B. Was mistreated before he purchased it. Either way, the ball is in Bad Boy's court, in my opinion. I'm not sure what would happen if I had similar problems with my Gravely. I might have just as many problems getting relief, who knows, but I personally think the company should use a little PR common sense, and replace the unit. One mower, to a large company, isn't that much money, and they are sure to lose more than that in sales in the long run from this guy bad-mouthing them. It doesn't take a mental giant to figure that out.

I bought a 96 Jeep Cherokee as a program vehicle with 27,000 miles on it in 97. I religiously changed the oil, using synthetic, every 5,000 miles. Engine was never overheated, never abused, but at around 115,000 miles, the engine developed a knock, which got progressively worse. After consulting three different mechanics, I decided to take a chance on a junk yard motor, rather than rebuilding my engine. The gamble paid off, as that engine is still going, and has somewhere around 175,000 miles on it.

My point is, I had no control over what happened in those first 27,000 miles. All the mechanics I talked to were surprised, because those 4.0 inlines usually run well over 200,000 miles with no problem. Either there was a small defect in the engine, or someone abused it before I got it, and it would piss me off royally for someone to assume it was me that caused the problem, without knowing me, or the facts.

Hawg City Lawns
06-27-2010, 10:39 AM
What people are not looking at is that the mower currently has 450 hours on it. Bought with 125-150. That means that in a year and a half I have put 300 ish hours on it. Not alot for the a year and a half
Posted via Mobile Device

i do agree with you there thats not that many hours.. but you went to the factory and bought a demo? im still a little lost on that i didnt think you could buy straight from the factory

Mowingman
06-27-2010, 12:17 PM
They sell straight from the factory and they sell, or did sell on Ebay straight from the factory. I don't think they do that as much now that they have more dealers.

hackitdown
06-27-2010, 12:28 PM
What people are not looking at is that the mower currently has 450 hours on it. Bought with 125-150. That means that in a year and a half I have put 300 ish hours on it. Not alot for the a year and a half
Posted via Mobile Device

I put about 350 hrs per year on mine, and hopefully more this year. More hours done right means more revenue.

Besides, whether the hours were put on it in 1 year or 5 years, it is the same number of hours. No machine should have those problems in so few hours.

mowerman11
06-27-2010, 12:32 PM
This is why I like to buy new equipment. You never know who abused the used or demo equipment.

YardFarmersLLC
06-27-2010, 12:33 PM
I did buy straight from the factory. They no longer sell new from the factory to my knowledge. I think only demo unless there is no dealer around you
Posted via Mobile Device

gene gls
06-27-2010, 03:56 PM
That's right. A well built zero should be capable of 2500 trouble free hours
Posted via Mobile Device

you are dreaming on that statement..................

Grubrunner
06-27-2010, 04:34 PM
That's right. A well built zero should be capable of 2500 trouble free hours

That's just an asinine statement.

After a comment like that - with all due respect - I can see how/why you got dupped.

Did they use the same type of terminology [as your above quote] prior to selling you the ZTR?

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-27-2010, 04:44 PM
ummm... sell it and buy a Deere!

Mowingman
06-27-2010, 06:01 PM
Well, as a former Grasshopper dealer, I have seen many Grasshoppers in my shop for service that had over 4000 hours, and were still very dependable, good running machines.
These were diesels.
I also know of many Dixie Choppers that have run with the original engine for 3000+ hours. So, I do not think his statement is out of line at all.

LwnmwrMan22
06-27-2010, 06:25 PM
you are dreaming on that statement..................

As stated before, my '07 Kubota ZD331 / 72" has 1300 hours with no problems with MINIMAL MINIMAL maintenance. Think of the minimal amount of maintenance you can do, then do less, that's what I've done so far.

I have zero problems so far, so yes, a well built mower should have 2500 hours with "minimal" troubles if you maintenance them right.

MS_SURVEYOR
06-27-2010, 06:25 PM
First off, hello! I am new to this forum, and need some input on some problems with a machine I have.

First off, in 2007 I purchased a new zero turn mower, brand name (will not release name yet). It is a very well built mower, with a 60" cut, and 26 horse liquid cooled kawasaki gas engine. It has been a beast. I do not mow a huge lot of ground, as it is not my main industry. I now have almost 500 hours on the machine. I was so impressed with it that when I needed a new mower in 2008, I wanted another one. The local dealer had gone out of business, so I contacted the factory, and drove 8+ hours to get a demo unit...

Here is where the trouble starts. The demo is the same brand, but a better series, still 60" cut, but with better hydro output, a few more bells and whistles, and best of all (or so I thought), it had a 28 hp 3 cyl CAT diesel. I bought it, and got what seemed like a good deal, especially with full warranty. It had 125 hours at purchase. Around 175 hours, the engine blew up. They fought with me like cats and dogs, but finally replaced the engine because I could prove it was not neglect that caused the failure. I was happy, for a while.

Here is a list of the parts that have broke in the past year, all under normal wear, all in under 450 total hours, and with the mower being extremely well cared for. Keep in mind that my gas version has been practically flawless.

Late summer and fall 2009:

Engine blew up- tried to charge $5000, but they warrantied it.

No flat tire and rim seperated. $90

Both pieces that connect steering handles to pump broke different weeks. They are like a mini ball-joint deal the ball fell out of the socket, crashed me on two seperate occasions. I bought aftermarkets at the hardware store.

Regularly greased wheel bearing where the bolt goes through front caster wheel went out mid-season. I had to do the labor, but they sent me parts. Several days of downtime.

This Year:

Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing. Machine Shop repair.

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle. Machine shop repair.

Spindle housing broke off of frame. Machine shop repair.

The rear of deck is held by chains, front by turn buckle adjusters. One of the chain adjuster broke, deck smacks the ground.

Two weeks later, opposite chain hanger breaks, scalps customers yard.

Latch to shut hood broke.

Last week the throttle cable broke. still broke.

This morning I performed my regular service. Oil, good. Water, good. Blades, sharp. Grease, check. Hydro oil, full. Tires, good. Fuel, filled up. Air filter clean. We also cleaned the radiator and screen. Today while mowing, the engine overheated. Radiator still clean, water still good.

I honestly cannot rely on this mower for any amount of time, and it is a $12,500 mower!! The warranty department had been giving me a run around, but I finally got through to someone on up the chain of command. They want me to bring it to the factory, and trade it on a basic model gas unit, and GIVE BOOT! If I wanted to get raped, I would not loose money to get it done.


I know it sounds like the this mower had been abused by me and my crew. However, the gas continues to run with no problem, and they mow the same ground every week, at the same time, with the same operators, and the same conditions. Actually the gas is getting more use because the diesel stays broke. Both are treated well.

What are some opinions? I promised not to talk bad about them until they have a chance to make everything right, so the brand has not been released yet. PLEASE give me some insight here. I plan to go to the factory (8 hour drive) this coming monday. :hammerhead:

I'm having a hard time with some of the damage on that mower.

Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing. Machine Shop repair.


That's 1/2 inch steel!

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle. Machine shop repair.


That's 1/2 inch steel!

Spindle housing broke off of frame. Machine shop repair.

I have the Pup. That would be hard to do.

The rear of deck is held by chains, front by turn buckle adjusters. One of the chain adjuster broke, deck smacks the ground.

This don't sound right?

Two weeks later, opposite chain hanger breaks, scalps customers yard.


Darn dude! You have had to have hit something very hard many times!

I can see little stuff, but all that seems like,

I know it sounds like the this mower had been abused by me and my crew.

that to me!

Oh Well! I wish You Luck! But You're not getting on my MOWER!

:drinkup:

gene gls
06-27-2010, 08:58 PM
Well, as a former Grasshopper dealer, I have seen many Grasshoppers in my shop for service that had over 4000 hours, and were still very dependable, good running machines.
These were diesels.
I also know of many Dixie Choppers that have run with the original engine for 3000+ hours. So, I do not think his statement is out of line at all.

"2500 troubly free hours", I don't see it ever happening. My Walker MT GHS 20HP has 4000+ hours. It had minor problems up to 2600 hours when I started to rebuild it with a new engin. It still has one of the oregional hydros. My 25/60 Hustler S/Z started with problems at 25 hours and only got worse. That ting was a money pit. For the price we pay for our mowers, they should be more dependable than most are.

MS_SURVEYOR
06-27-2010, 11:35 PM
I'm having a hard time with some of the damage on that mower.



That's 1/2 inch steel!



That's 1/2 inch steel!



I have the Pup. That would be hard to do.



This don't sound right?



Darn dude! You have had to have hit something very hard many times!

I can see little stuff, but all that seems like,



that to me!

Oh Well! I wish You Luck! But You're not getting on my MOWER!

:drinkup:

How about a picture of the mower? That would be nice!

:drinkup:

Grubrunner
06-28-2010, 12:04 AM
My bad.....

YardFarmersLLC
06-28-2010, 12:08 AM
I will get current pics of it and post them up in the morning. It still looks good, it's clean.
Posted via Mobile Device

newz7151
06-28-2010, 03:40 AM
What i don't understand, is you said somewhere in one of your first posts that lawn mowing is not your main industry, which I assume means it is a part time gig.... WHO THE HECK HAS A CREW (of what sounds like 3 or 4 guys) if they are only doing it part time? What IS your "main" industry? Coyote?

YardFarmersLLC
06-28-2010, 07:35 AM
The main industry is farming and Landscaping/Seed and Grade jobs. We take care of everything outside of houses after the bulldozers and big equipment leave. We dig electric and water lines, backfill, job site clean up, prepare areas for concrete, sub out the concrete, then do the yard, landscaping, ect. I run a crew of three or so guys on that full time, and mow about 2.5-3 days per week. Usually 3 ten hour days with 4-5 guys will do all the mowing. the rest of the week, those guys come to the dirt jobs and do all the hand work.

Mower pics-
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/badboy1.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/badboyg.jpg

YardFarmersLLC
06-28-2010, 07:40 AM
Mowing is something steady to pay the bills, this is where the profit comes from:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/DSCN0372.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/DSCN0371.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/DSCN0369.jpg

Working a phase at a time on re-landscaping this place, and many others like it...

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/DSCN0335.jpg

MS_SURVEYOR
06-28-2010, 09:22 AM
All I can say is, I'm sorry for your problems.

1 more, Nice Work!

YardFarmersLLC
06-28-2010, 01:41 PM
The trip to Arkansas has been a lost cause. I expected a supposedly reputable company to be willing to keep a customer at more cost to them than they were. Before I spend any more money with a company I'm disgusted with I will buy a mower that will get the job done. Too bad they can't see past one unit.
Posted via Mobile Device

Hawg City Lawns
06-28-2010, 02:06 PM
The trip to Arkansas has been a lost cause. I expected a supposedly reputable company to be willing to keep a customer at more cost to them than they were. Before I spend any more money with a company I'm disgusted with I will buy a mower that will get the job done. Too bad they can't see past one unit.
Posted via Mobile Device

what did they have to say?

YardFarmersLLC
06-28-2010, 02:12 PM
They wanted my diesel mower and one thousand bucks to trade to a four hour demo lightning z gas with no warranty
Posted via Mobile Device

LwnmwrMan22
06-28-2010, 02:26 PM
Couple of things.

1. How did your trip go down? Did you just show up at the factory this morning and knocked on the door... "HEY! I want a new mower!"
Factory guy comes out and says "What's the problem?"
YardFarmer "I want a new mower".
Factory guy "Hey, $1,000 and your mower, you can have this one".
YardFarmer "I want a new mower".
Factory guy "You can have this mower, basically new, but since we have no idea who you are, or have any way to inspect this mower yet, you get no warranty on this new mower".
YardFarmer "You suck, bye".

?????

I've looked at Bad Boy mowers. Sure, most of them are probably good. My opinion has always been they "look" cheap. If they "look" cheap, they're built cheap.

What I don't understand is, with craigslist, ebay, etc., and the fact that you have no local dealer support, you could have easily picked any mower out there with 150-ish hours on it for the price you paid.

I would have bought from a private party, where you can look around at the person's other possesions and get a guy feeling of whether or not the machine was beat on or not.

YardFarmersLLC
06-28-2010, 02:46 PM
Well I discussed this all with them over the phone and sat up my appointment. They knew the history before I went and they agreed upon arrival that at least 75% of my problems were their fault.

The Kentucky sales rep admitted he should have been informed of this all long ago but his people dropped the ball. Yet this was the best offer they had and said my theory of losing a fair amount of money on one unit to maintain a good reputation was totally ridiculous and made no logic.
Posted via Mobile Device

LwnmwrMan22
06-28-2010, 02:50 PM
Sadly, they're right.

If you had a history of buying 1-2 mowers+ per year, they would keep you around. They're not going to lose 1000ks of dollars on one customer that MIGHT buy another mower 5 years from now.
Posted via Mobile Device

lawnsnake
06-28-2010, 03:05 PM
I'm one of the factory reps for Bad Boy Inc that was attempting to handle YardFarmersLLC issues. The true offer that was made was a Lightning with 4 hours or a Brand new outlaw with full warranty and parts at dealer cost for one year. In return for either one of these mowers, he would have been required to trade his diesel with $1000.
If you look at the pictures he has posted on this thread previously, you can clearly see that the deck has buckled from being hit by something. He claims that he purchased the mower with a bent deck. What commercial customer would knowingly purchase a mower with a bent deck? Furthermore, what commercial cutter would not notice this at the point of sale.
We have went above and beyond trying to help this customer. This includes providing an avenue for a new CAT engine that was not under warranty. This also includes offering a great deal for a brand new lawn mower with full warranty. Sometimes you cannot please everybody, I guess.

LwnmwrMan22
06-28-2010, 03:12 PM
Oh oh....

I'll still go back to my original assertions that no matter how much you think you know a guy, and that he's good, responsible, yada yada yada, they will still confound you on how stuff comes back to the shop broke.

FWIW, lawnsnake... you might want to change your name to lawngoodboy or lawnfactoryrepguy... snake just has the wrong connotations to it. :D

Hawg City Lawns
06-28-2010, 03:25 PM
I'm one of the factory reps for Bad Boy Inc that was attempting to handle YardFarmersLLC issues. The true offer that was made was a Lightning with 4 hours or a Brand new outlaw with full warranty and parts at dealer cost for one year. In return for either one of these mowers, he would have been required to trade his diesel with $1000.
If you look at the pictures he has posted on this thread previously, you can clearly see that the deck has buckled from being hit by something. He claims that he purchased the mower with a bent deck. What commercial customer would knowingly purchase a mower with a bent deck? Furthermore, what commercial cutter would not notice this at the point of sale.
We have went above and beyond trying to help this customer. This includes providing an avenue for a new CAT engine that was not under warranty. This also includes offering a great deal for a brand new lawn mower with full warranty. Sometimes you cannot please everybody, I guess.

good to know the other side of the story

sounds like bad boy tried to take care of you YardFarmersLLC

look at it this way for instance you bought a used car with 20,000 miles had the extended warranty and everything and it had been driven hard for 40,000 more miles then you were upset with the repair costs and you went back to the dealer or even factory at that and demanded you wanted a new car or you will not buy from them again and will bad mouth them well im afraid you might get laughed at and you wouldnt get near anything on a trade if you did decide to trade your old car let alone give you more than its worth id be happy bad boy actually tried to help you out instead of turning the other cheek

all in all you probably should have taken the deal you would have been ahead of the game

YardFarmersLLC
06-28-2010, 03:32 PM
The connotations are correct lwnmwrman. The engine was under warranty. One year warranty was given all around, and sadly only the engine was replaced, and they act like saints over doing one right thing. None of these mowers I have used had very good cut quality. I assume badboy will continue with the big sales pitch on their products, and yet they obviously have much to learn if they ever want to be a major player in the industry. They need to work on center of gravity, dealer network, public relations, quality of cut, and loose the big boy attitude until they can prove themselves.

To their shame, even my local dealer admitted Saturday that the ky rep could throw a sales pitch, but knew little about mowers. And that is the honest truth. Buyers, do your research.
Posted via Mobile Device

beegreenlandcare
06-28-2010, 04:08 PM
Maybe I've missed alittle here b/c I basically skipped to the end of this thread to see how it all turned out for ya but, what I do know is that "things happen" when u have employees and when asked (even directly) NO ONE knows what happened.:confused: I've been pretty PO'd by my own guy/s (in past eyars) when I KNEW he broke something but when asked he did not know how it got that way.
I strongly suspect this machine was abused w/o the owners' knowledge and now the owner is wrongly placing blame. Employees can be pretty good people but, when fearing for loss of job they can lie about everything.
I'm a true exmark fan, so really can't say Bad Boy is a top of the line machine either though:rolleyes:

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-28-2010, 04:23 PM
Seriously.... not to offend anybody here..... why would you buy a mower form a company called "bad boy mowers"? This thread is seriously the first time I've ever heard of them! Stick with Deere, Exmark, Ferris, Toro.... the companies who you know spend millions in R&D on their products and will stand behind them no matter what! No offense to the rep but this outfit sounds like some dude making machines in his barn. The machines look that way too! Also, don't ever take an employees word for it when they tell you they didn't/don't abuse a machine. I've seen employees do horrible things to machines when they thought the boss wasn't looking.

I'd say chalk the whole thing up to experience and trade the thing in on a decent brand name mower from one of the big three or four manufacturers!

jomeokee
06-28-2010, 04:24 PM
So far 2,948 "views" have been rung up on this post...... Considering almost all the people reading this thread operate or purchase ZTR mowers I was expecting BB to propose a better offer than they did.

IOW's this forum reaches a large community.

YardFarmersLLC thanks for your post. Your post has has been very informative.

Tom

YardFarmersLLC
06-28-2010, 04:55 PM
I agree. I stake everything on my reputation. So far their stuff has hurt my reputation locally.

That being said, I wish sincerely I could have left that factory with something good to say, and leave as a believer. I drove 550 miles one way because I had faith in them. I still would have faith in them if they had stepped up to the plate, and would still give them a chance if they would make a fair offer. I like products and companies I can believe in.

I plan to demo a slag and exmark this week. Maybe I can beef this mower up enough for it to pay off over several years.
Posted via Mobile Device

Grubrunner
06-28-2010, 05:44 PM
Seriously.... not to offend anybody here..... why would you buy a mower form a company called "bad boy mowers"?

Are your serious???

What on God's good Earth does a the name a manufacturuer chooses to operate under have to do with the product or the product's quality or lackthereof?

This thread is seriously the first time I've ever heard of them!

You're kidding, correct?

If not, then you really need to get out more often.

Stick with Deere, Exmark, Ferris, Toro.... the companies who you know spend millions in R&D on their products and will stand behind them no matter what!

FYI: I've had more issues over the past few years with John Deere than the other of the brands you metioned. Their customer service, IMHO, is pathetic and I'll never purchase another JD product again.... they'll also nickle-n-dime you at every opportunity they get [as many others have claimed here recently]. They don't stand behind sheet!

Toro, great products, I'll admit, but their customer service for potential buyers is below-average at best.... and I speak from personal experience or I'd have a Toro Z Master® G3 [74923] sitting in my garage ATM.

As for Ferris and Exmark, no arguements from me.

No offense to the rep but this outfit sounds like some dude making machines in his barn. The machines look that way too!

Do you have any idea how/where and under what conditions Exmark was started?

Speak with some BadBoy owners who own/operate/run these machines day in, day out... and listen to them rave on and on. Especially take note of the ones who switched over from other brands like Scag, Exmark, BobCat, Toro, JD, etc....

For the record, I don't own a BadBoy. I own an Exmark. But I was lucky enough to demo a 2010 4800 Pup BadBoy for three days and was very, very impressed with it all-round [a well balanced and smooth ride, very good cut quality, a virtually indestructable deck/frame, easiest and most accessible mower to work on, etc, etc...]. How impressed was I? I got to a whisker from purchasing a 5200 Lightning Z but pulled out in the last second for personal reasons.... absolutely nothing against the mower itself.

They're way [WAY] better than the piece of horse dung you try to make them out to be in this thread.

mybowtie
06-28-2010, 08:17 PM
Are your serious???

What on God's good Earth does a the name a manufacturuer chooses to operate under have to do with the product or the product's quality or lackthereof?



You're kidding, correct?

If not, then you really need to get out more often.



FYI: I've had more issues over the past few years with John Deere than the other of the brands you metioned. Their customer service, IMHO, is pathetic and I'll never purchase another JD product again.... they'll also nickle-n-dime you at every opportunity they get [as many others have claimed here recently]. They don't stand behind sheet!

Toro, great products, I'll admit, but their customer service for potential buyers is below-average at best.... and I speak from personal experience or I'd have a Toro Z Master® G3 [74923] sitting in my garage ATM.

As for Ferris and Exmark, no arguements from me.



Do you have any idea how/where and under what conditions Exmark was started?

Speak with some BadBoy owners who own/operate/run these machines day in, day out... and listen to them rave on and on. Especially take note of the ones who switched over from other brands like Scag, Exmark, BobCat, Toro, JD, etc....

For the record, I don't own a BadBoy. I own an Exmark. But I was lucky enough to demo a 2010 4800 Pup BadBoy for three days and was very, very impressed with it all-round [a well balanced and smooth ride, very good cut quality, a virtually indestructable deck/frame, easiest and most accessible mower to work on, etc, etc...]. How impressed was I? I got to a whisker from purchasing a 5200 Lightning Z but pulled out in the last second for personal reasons.... absolutely nothing against the mower itself.

They're way [WAY] better than the piece of horse dung you try to make them out to be in this thread.

X2...

Hard to belive someone is bashing a mower they never heard of;):hammerhead:

ToroLandscaper
06-28-2010, 10:35 PM
Well this is the icing on the cake for me not ever buying anything Bad Boy makes...there dealers around here are not up to par with the rest and obviously the manufacture does not back their product.

I have owned all sorts of brands of mowers and was actually thinking of really looking into them...thanks for this thread

YardFarmersLLC
06-28-2010, 11:04 PM
Toro, I do know they can make a good product, my gas mower is proof. When I had one small problem with a pulley on the deck, they sent me a complete new deck setup. Ita just sad that they made this decision on this unit. At my age, I have a feeling I will own many more mowers. They would have continued to been bad boy if they had bent over backwards and done the appropriate thing on this. I hate it all ended this way, and I'm sure that if Robert Foster and Mr Pulley, the owners knew what was going down they would be disappointed in the way it was handled. However, everyone here knows the kind of Public relations skills that many employees have. They don't care about the name like owners do, whether it's service industry like us, or manufacturing group like these mower companies.

I would be singing their praises if they had swapped me mowers even, or if they would buy this junk unit back at a fair price.
Posted via Mobile Device

brucec32
06-28-2010, 11:48 PM
It could just be a lemon, or it could be employees abusing it. A majority of the time when I see an employee on a ZTR doing public areas where maybe cut isn't that important, they are yanking it around terribly. I'm sure they'd be driving it more carefully with the boss around. Pushing the handlebars forward as fast as you can is tough on the belts, the hydros, the engine, and the turf. But I see someone driving that way almost every day. Hopping off curbs at full speed to get back to the trailer, clipping metal street sign poles, etc.

The breaking of heavy metal parts could be from a bad welding day at the factory or abuse. I'd have to see exactly what broke and where for more clues. If it were just the engine that's one thing. But so many areas.

I'd take the new gas model for $1,000 and move on. No question. One thing dealers are probably not going to do is let someone have a "lemon" that to them could possibly be not their company's fault, negotiate a replacement unit, and get a new free mower w/ hundreds fewer hours on it for nothing. They want the customer to put some skin in the game, otherwise everyone would go smash a used mower up and demand a free one. This goes for lemon cars as well.

Grubrunner
06-29-2010, 12:13 AM
YardFarmersLLC,

With all due respect, I find it strange that you have yet to address or refute the post below by one of the BadBoy representatives that attempted to rectify your issues...

I'm one of the factory reps for Bad Boy Inc that was attempting to handle YardFarmersLLC issues. The true offer that was made was a Lightning with 4 hours or a Brand new outlaw with full warranty and parts at dealer cost for one year. In return for either one of these mowers, he would have been required to trade his diesel with $1000.
If you look at the pictures he has posted on this thread previously, you can clearly see that the deck has buckled from being hit by something. He claims that he purchased the mower with a bent deck. What commercial customer would knowingly purchase a mower with a bent deck? Furthermore, what commercial cutter would not notice this at the point of sale.
We have went above and beyond trying to help this customer. This includes providing an avenue for a new CAT engine that was not under warranty. This also includes offering a great deal for a brand new lawn mower with full warranty. Sometimes you cannot please everybody, I guess.

MOturkey
06-29-2010, 12:13 AM
I'm one of the factory reps for Bad Boy Inc that was attempting to handle YardFarmersLLC issues. The true offer that was made was a Lightning with 4 hours or a Brand new outlaw with full warranty and parts at dealer cost for one year. In return for either one of these mowers, he would have been required to trade his diesel with $1000.
If you look at the pictures he has posted on this thread previously, you can clearly see that the deck has buckled from being hit by something. He claims that he purchased the mower with a bent deck. What commercial customer would knowingly purchase a mower with a bent deck? Furthermore, what commercial cutter would not notice this at the point of sale.
We have went above and beyond trying to help this customer. This includes providing an avenue for a new CAT engine that was not under warranty. This also includes offering a great deal for a brand new lawn mower with full warranty. Sometimes you cannot please everybody, I guess.

Lawnsnake, would you please explain what is meant by "full warranty and parts at dealer cost for one year." If the mower was going to have a full warranty, why would he need to buy parts at cost? I'm a bit confused. :confused:

Grubrunner
06-29-2010, 12:18 AM
Lawnsnake, would you please explain what is meant by "full warranty and parts at dealer cost for one year." If the mower was going to have a full warranty, why would he need to buy parts at cost? I'm a bit confused. :confused:

I'm guessing he means accessories when he says parts.

If that's the case, it's a damn good deal!

big_belly4ever
06-29-2010, 02:09 AM
I'll chime in again and say Farmer your reputation is shot by me. As a badboy owner and dealt with the company with my mower and had a few of the things go wrong with my machine as yours. I bought mine used with no warranty and no dealer for miles they were good to me getting it shipped ect. Your just a big baby coming on hear bashing them to get what you want. my .02$ you should have taken the deal. The Badboys are for real men not Baby's. Farmer go get a Deer. they love to take money for their name and screw you more,their your kind of people. (former deer man). Trade your gas Badboy to you don't know a good mower. If you or your employees abused that machine try anther company and we will see you on here crying again. Farmer you got milk for that Baby crying. Man up that you abused that machine and deck.(not saying anything about motor) Your not fooling this Badboy owner.

Hawg City Lawns
06-29-2010, 02:15 AM
Toro, I do know they can make a good product, my gas mower is proof. When I had one small problem with a pulley on the deck, they sent me a complete new deck setup. Ita just sad that they made this decision on this unit. At my age, I have a feeling I will own many more mowers. They would have continued to been bad boy if they had bent over backwards and done the appropriate thing on this. I hate it all ended this way, and I'm sure that if Robert Foster and Mr Pulley, the owners knew what was going down they would be disappointed in the way it was handled. However, everyone here knows the kind of Public relations skills that many employees have. They don't care about the name like owners do, whether it's service industry like us, or manufacturing group like these mower companies.

I would be singing their praises if they had swapped me mowers even, or if they would buy this junk unit back at a fair price.
Posted via Mobile Device

they offered you over $6000 for a mower that you bought for $8500 and a full warranty and parts at the dealers cost i think thats mighty fair considering this mower has been used and abused if they didnt think they were giving you a good deal would they have invited you to come down to the factory 550 miles away? i think youre just mad they didnt hand you the keys to a new one

mybowtie
06-29-2010, 05:23 AM
Thing has a bent deck and he said it hasnt been abused??? Find it hard to belive he purchased that mower with a bent deck. Why would BB sell it with a bent deck to start with? Its not like they didnt have any to replace it with.

I agree he would be on here bashing Toro, Scag or who ever the manufacture was if it wasnt badboy.

As far as motor, thats cats deal not BB.

YardFarmersLLC
06-29-2010, 08:00 AM
I'm one of the factory reps for Bad Boy Inc that was attempting to handle YardFarmersLLC issues. The true offer that was made was a Lightning with 4 hours or a Brand new outlaw with full warranty and parts at dealer cost for one year. In return for either one of these mowers, he would have been required to trade his diesel with $1000.
If you look at the pictures he has posted on this thread previously, you can clearly see that the deck has buckled from being hit by something. He claims that he purchased the mower with a bent deck. What commercial customer would knowingly purchase a mower with a bent deck? Furthermore, what commercial cutter would not notice this at the point of sale.
We have went above and beyond trying to help this customer. This includes providing an avenue for a new CAT engine that was not under warranty. This also includes offering a great deal for a brand new lawn mower with full warranty. Sometimes you cannot please everybody, I guess.

I am not trying to dodge anything here, so I will go over this post, and give my side of this story, and clarify these statements.

The assessment by their reps was this: The mower is somewhat rough, and in their own words, at least 75% of my issues appear to be THEIR fault. Period. That statement came from the reps at badboy. I had a close friend there who can validate that statement.

They presented me with two options. I could trade the problematic diesel mower to one of two mowers, and pay the $1,000 difference between either of them.

OPTION 1- Bad Boy Outlaw mower. Brand new, with the new hydrogear system with the pump and the motor built into one unit. I currently have the seperate system like most mowers. I would get the new deck design, but would have to go from an electric raise deck to a foot operated system like most others on the market. I would also have to step down to the air cooled kawi engine. This unit does not look near as tough as the one I have been having issues with. It looks more like a home owner mower.

With option one, it would be a brand new mower, and get full factory warranty.

Option 2- Bad Boy Lightning like my first gas mower. It was an 09 model, with 4 demo hours on it. Same difference in money, however with it there would be NO warranty, just the promise of being able to buy parts at DEALER COST for ONE YEAR, and do all labor myself.

I would have and still would consider giving $500 between mine and the outlaw, or the lightning, but not $1000 after two different trips to the factory, one being when I got the diesel, the other being when I tried to take it back this weekend.


As for how the mowers have been treated, the reps agreed that the Gas was in exceptional shape, and still a nice unit, and considering the shape it is in, and the fact that both have been ran by the same people on the same terrain lends to only one conclusion: the AOS Diesel unit has been a problem, and needs to be replaced. We all agreed it should be replaced, but we could not meet on a dollar figure.

The outlaw handles nice, but has yet to be proven. I still refuse to put the $1,000 between them and yet again out my neck on the chopping block taking a risk with their product. When they agree face to face that the diesel unit should not be giving the problems it has presented, and then come on here and even go so far as to say they replaced an engine that was not under warranty when it was, is astonishing to me. They know the engine was under warranty. I purchased the mower with warrant, and the engine blew before I could even put many hours on it. Sad.

:walking: <------------------me walking to a company with better products, and hopefully better people if this is the best BB can do.

:hammerhead: <--------------Lesson being learned the hard way.

:clapping: <-----------------Clapping for the person who can have good luck with Bad Boy. I salute you if you have a good experience with them, I wish you luck.

rtharris
06-29-2010, 09:38 AM
I am not trying to dodge anything here, so I will go over this post, and give my side of this story, and clarify these statements.

The assessment by their reps was this: The mower is somewhat rough, and in their own words, at least 75% of my issues appear to be THEIR fault. Period. That statement came from the reps at badboy. I had a close friend there who can validate that statement.

They presented me with two options. I could trade the problematic diesel mower to one of two mowers, and pay the $1,000 difference between either of them.

OPTION 1- Bad Boy Outlaw mower. Brand new, with the new hydrogear system with the pump and the motor built into one unit. I currently have the seperate system like most mowers. I would get the new deck design, but would have to go from an electric raise deck to a foot operated system like most others on the market. I would also have to step down to the air cooled kawi engine. This unit does not look near as tough as the one I have been having issues with. It looks more like a home owner mower.

With option one, it would be a brand new mower, and get full factory warranty.

Option 2- Bad Boy Lightning like my first gas mower. It was an 09 model, with 4 demo hours on it. Same difference in money, however with it there would be NO warranty, just the promise of being able to buy parts at DEALER COST for ONE YEAR, and do all labor myself.

I would have and still would consider giving $500 between mine and the outlaw, or the lightning, but not $1000 after two different trips to the factory, one being when I got the diesel, the other being when I tried to take it back this weekend.


As for how the mowers have been treated, the reps agreed that the Gas was in exceptional shape, and still a nice unit, and considering the shape it is in, and the fact that both have been ran by the same people on the same terrain lends to only one conclusion: the AOS Diesel unit has been a problem, and needs to be replaced. We all agreed it should be replaced, but we could not meet on a dollar figure.

The outlaw handles nice, but has yet to be proven. I still refuse to put the $1,000 between them and yet again out my neck on the chopping block taking a risk with their product. When they agree face to face that the diesel unit should not be giving the problems it has presented, and then come on here and even go so far as to say they replaced an engine that was not under warranty when it was, is astonishing to me. They know the engine was under warranty. I purchased the mower with warrant, and the engine blew before I could even put many hours on it. Sad.

:walking: <------------------me walking to a company with better products, and hopefully better people if this is the best BB can do.

:hammerhead: <--------------Lesson being learned the hard way.

:clapping: <-----------------Clapping for the person who can have good luck with Bad Boy. I salute you if you have a good experience with them, I wish you luck.
Posted via Mobile Device

rtharris
06-29-2010, 09:44 AM
Just another BB hater This whole thread is proposterous This machine had to be totally abused from day one and none of his story makes any sense
Posted via Mobile Device

YardFarmersLLC
06-29-2010, 10:11 AM
I think that if they believed in the product they produce as much as I believe in the service I provide, they would be much quicker to want to put me on another unit. Period.
Posted via Mobile Device

Grubrunner
06-29-2010, 12:11 PM
YardFarmersLLC,

Can you please adress the below comment by the Badboy Rep --

If you look at the pictures he has posted on this thread previously, you can clearly see that the deck has buckled from being hit by something. He claims that he purchased the mower with a bent deck. What commercial customer would knowingly purchase a mower with a bent deck? Furthermore, what commercial cutter would not notice this at the point of sale.

Seriously, how on Earth can you NOT notice an obvious buckled deck prior to purchasing?

You're buying a demonstration [used] model commercial ZTR with 125HRS from the manufacturer in the hope of using it for commercial purposes with the hope of [among other things] longevity, right? Then why would you not give it a thorough once over prior to purchasing? A buckled ZTR deck is not a subtle thing... it's obvious! How did you miss it if you claim it's the way you purchased it...???

Also, I've seen, operated and clearly inspected the frame on these BadBoy mowers fairly recently. These decks are [close to] probably the toughest on the market. Unless you slam [not hit] into something relatively stationary, they are not going to buckle.... period!

.... and believe you me, the damage would be clearly evident.

:confused::confused::confused:

YardFarmersLLC
06-29-2010, 12:41 PM
The deck has a slight bend in the front of it. It's not like it was ran over with my dumptruck. It was there upon purchase and they assured me it was fine and not bent.
Posted via Mobile Device

rtharris
06-29-2010, 12:54 PM
I think that if they believed in the product they produce as much as I believe in the service I provide, they would be much quicker to want to put me on another unit. Period.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

rtharris
06-29-2010, 01:01 PM
Bad boy did try to get you on another mower but you wanted a free one and i can see why that didnt happen I dont see how you caused that much damage without intentionally trying imo
Posted via Mobile Device

br549oicu8
06-29-2010, 01:14 PM
I feel for ya man. I posted earlier in this thread about the problems I had with Wright Sentars. I'd take the offer and run with it. You've learned a lesson in a couple of ways.
Your faith in Bad Boy will most likely never be as good as it once was.
Some guys on here sympathize.
Some guys have valid points.
Some guys always need to gripe.

Make a deal. Use the replacement with care.
Buy another brand next time and NEVER buy a demo.

MS_SURVEYOR
06-29-2010, 01:42 PM
I feel for ya man. I posted earlier in this thread about the problems I had with Wright Sentars. I'd take the offer and run with it. You've learned a lesson in a couple of ways.
Your faith in Bad Boy will most likely never be as good as it once was.
Some guys on here sympathize.
Some guys have valid points.
Some guys always need to gripe.

Make a deal. Use the replacement with care.
Buy another brand next time and NEVER buy a demo.

Best darn advice anyone could give! :drinkup:

Move on and GOOD LUCK!

:waving:

ff162bfd
06-29-2010, 07:03 PM
The deck has a slight bend in the front of it. It's not like it was ran over with my dumptruck. It was there upon purchase and they assured me it was fine and not bent.
Posted via Mobile Device

The deck is 1/4 inch steel at the thinnest point!!! I would think it would take more than a dumptruck to bend it. I still say its your own fault for buying a junked out demo and then expecting the company to repair all these problems. Did he say what 75% was their fault?

YardFarmersLLC
06-29-2010, 07:11 PM
They did not specify what exactly was and was not their fault. Does it really matter which 75%? And obviously you have no concept of weight/ strength if you think it would take more than a dump to bend a deck.
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
06-29-2010, 10:46 PM
First off, hello! I am new to this forum, and need some input on some problems with a machine I have.

First off, in 2007 I purchased a new zero turn mower, brand name (will not release name yet). It is a very well built mower, with a 60" cut, and 26 horse liquid cooled kawasaki gas engine. It has been a beast. I do not mow a huge lot of ground, as it is not my main industry. I now have almost 500 hours on the machine. I was so impressed with it that when I needed a new mower in 2008, I wanted another one. The local dealer had gone out of business, so I contacted the factory, and drove 8+ hours to get a demo unit...

Here is where the trouble starts. The demo is the same brand, but a better series, still 60" cut, but with better hydro output, a few more bells and whistles, and best of all (or so I thought), it had a 28 hp 3 cyl CAT diesel. I bought it, and got what seemed like a good deal, especially with full warranty. It had 125 hours at purchase. Around 175 hours, the engine blew up. They fought with me like cats and dogs, but finally replaced the engine because I could prove it was not neglect that caused the failure. I was happy, for a while.

Here is a list of the parts that have broke in the past year, all under normal wear, all in under 450 total hours, and with the mower being extremely well cared for. Keep in mind that my gas version has been practically flawless.

Late summer and fall 2009:

Engine blew up- tried to charge $5000, but they warrantied it.

No flat tire and rim seperated. $90

Both pieces that connect steering handles to pump broke different weeks. They are like a mini ball-joint deal the ball fell out of the socket, crashed me on two seperate occasions. I bought aftermarkets at the hardware store.

Regularly greased wheel bearing where the bolt goes through front caster wheel went out mid-season. I had to do the labor, but they sent me parts. Several days of downtime.

This Year:

Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing. Machine Shop repair.

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle. Machine shop repair.

Spindle housing broke off of frame. Machine shop repair.

The rear of deck is held by chains, front by turn buckle adjusters. One of the chain adjuster broke, deck smacks the ground.

Two weeks later, opposite chain hanger breaks, scalps customers yard.

Latch to shut hood broke.

Last week the throttle cable broke. still broke.

This morning I performed my regular service. Oil, good. Water, good. Blades, sharp. Grease, check. Hydro oil, full. Tires, good. Fuel, filled up. Air filter clean. We also cleaned the radiator and screen. Today while mowing, the engine overheated. Radiator still clean, water still good.

I honestly cannot rely on this mower for any amount of time, and it is a $12,500 mower!! The warranty department had been giving me a run around, but I finally got through to someone on up the chain of command. They want me to bring it to the factory, and trade it on a basic model gas unit, and GIVE BOOT! If I wanted to get raped, I would not loose money to get it done.


I know it sounds like the this mower had been abused by me and my crew. However, the gas continues to run with no problem, and they mow the same ground every week, at the same time, with the same operators, and the same conditions. Actually the gas is getting more use because the diesel stays broke. Both are treated well.

What are some opinions? I promised not to talk bad about them until they have a chance to make everything right, so the brand has not been released yet. PLEASE give me some insight here. I plan to go to the factory (8 hour drive) this coming monday. :hammerhead:

I have no problem with understanding you could have gotten a lemon, and it makes no difference what color or name a mower manufacture produces they all have lemons come off the assembly line.

The problem I do have is some of the parts you listed as falling apart:

"Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing.

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle.

Spindle housing broke off of frame."

Believe me these parts don't just fall off, I doubt seriously anyone participating in this thread can tell you they have ever seen any one of these three problems listed in blue take place. I'll go as far to say I doubt anyone posting in this thread ever heard anyone speak of having one of these problems occur.

I will guarantee you if this was put before a judge and jury to decide if these three problems took place under normal wear and tear use, you would lose the case. The judgement would be rendered as these three problems arising from abuse by either employees or the owner himself.

I am sorry but this is definitely the way it would come down, therefore you should easily understand how the manufacturer of the mower could never believe these problems came about from normal use with no abuse. You would honestly need to think real hard to figure out a way to break a spindle housing off a mower frame. You may be able to drop it off a bridge with precision of all the mower weight hitting directly on one spindle, which even that could not be guaranteed.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
06-29-2010, 11:05 PM
I am not trying to dodge anything here, so I will go over this post, and give my side of this story, and clarify these statements.

The assessment by their reps was this: The mower is somewhat rough, and in their own words, at least 75% of my issues appear to be THEIR fault. Period. That statement came from the reps at badboy. I had a close friend there who can validate that statement.

They presented me with two options. I could trade the problematic diesel mower to one of two mowers, and pay the $1,000 difference between either of them.

OPTION 1- Bad Boy Outlaw mower. Brand new, with the new hydrogear system with the pump and the motor built into one unit. I currently have the seperate system like most mowers. I would get the new deck design, but would have to go from an electric raise deck to a foot operated system like most others on the market. I would also have to step down to the air cooled kawi engine. This unit does not look near as tough as the one I have been having issues with. It looks more like a home owner mower.

With option one, it would be a brand new mower, and get full factory warranty.

Option 2- Bad Boy Lightning like my first gas mower. It was an 09 model, with 4 demo hours on it. Same difference in money, however with it there would be NO warranty, just the promise of being able to buy parts at DEALER COST for ONE YEAR, and do all labor myself.

I would have and still would consider giving $500 between mine and the outlaw, or the lightning, but not $1000 after two different trips to the factory, one being when I got the diesel, the other being when I tried to take it back this weekend.


As for how the mowers have been treated, the reps agreed that the Gas was in exceptional shape, and still a nice unit, and considering the shape it is in, and the fact that both have been ran by the same people on the same terrain lends to only one conclusion: the AOS Diesel unit has been a problem, and needs to be replaced. We all agreed it should be replaced, but we could not meet on a dollar figure.

The outlaw handles nice, but has yet to be proven. I still refuse to put the $1,000 between them and yet again out my neck on the chopping block taking a risk with their product. When they agree face to face that the diesel unit should not be giving the problems it has presented, and then come on here and even go so far as to say they replaced an engine that was not under warranty when it was, is astonishing to me. They know the engine was under warranty. I purchased the mower with warrant, and the engine blew before I could even put many hours on it. Sad.

:walking: <------------------me walking to a company with better products, and hopefully better people if this is the best BB can do.

:hammerhead: <--------------Lesson being learned the hard way.

:clapping: <-----------------Clapping for the person who can have good luck with Bad Boy. I salute you if you have a good experience with them, I wish you luck.


I have an Outlaw I purchased the last of April. I have 157 hours on it. It has been a great mower so far. The dealer has been wonderful. One of my employees bent a spindle, replaced under warranty by the dealer no questions asked. Extra blades for free and belts at dealer cost at time of purchase.

This mower replaced a Scag Tigercat. I had multiple problems with the Tigercat in 400 hours of operation, and the dealer was crappy to say the least. You couldn't get anyone to even talk to you on the phone at Scag about the problem.

I have 2 Turf Tigers also that have been great machines. I think Scag mowers are great mowers, and the Tigercat was probably just a lemon. However, due to my experience with the Tigercat I will most likely replace these mowers with Badboy mowers.

I paid $7800 for my Scag Tigercat and one year later had to sell it for $3500 because I didn't get Sh#&t for help from the dealer or Scag. I have also had similar experiences with John Deere on tractors when I used to do right-of-way mowing.

I think Yard Farmers should be very greatful for the offer Badboy gave him no matter who tore up his mower. I feel the only reason he got this great of offer is because they are still a small company who cares about the customer. I hope that Badboy stays a privately owned company and doesn't sell out to the big names like Exmark did.

Yard Farmers I mean no disrespect to you. These are just my opinions and my personal experiences. I hope that when you switch to one of the main brands you get a good machine, and don't get raked over the coals like I did.:waving:

MOturkey
06-30-2010, 08:23 AM
This is one of those threads that will take forever to die. :) I haven't read every single post, but the fact that the deck was bent seems to be a matter of contention to many of you. I'm thinking I read that YardFarmerLLC says the deck was already damanged when he took delivery of the machine? That, to me, is a huge clue that the machine had been abused prior to his purchasing it.

Of course, some of you are going to bash him for buying a damaged machine. Well, if the price was right, and I was assured there was nothing functionally wrong with the unit, I might do the same thing. I suspect lots of us would.

Also, I'd like to hear some more details about the failure of the original engine, which, I believe, blew at very low hours. If this was due to a faulty engine, then I'm reasonably sure Bad Boy didn't have to eat it. Caterpillar would have replaced it. Am I right? And, if it were not due to a faulty engine, then why would Cat or BB have replaced it under warranty at all? I have a friend that bought a Gravely a few years ago with the Diahatsu diesel. It failed at less than 200 hours, and I couldn't figure out why the company wouldn't make it good. Well, he didn't give me the whole story, but the dealer did.

It seems the mower got stuck in a steep ditch, and was sitting at an extreme angle. Instead of getting something to pull it out, they just kept running the engine trying to get out, and eventually, starved it for oil, and locked it up. A contributing factor was the break-in oil had never been changed, and the unit was low on oil as well, so my buddy had to eat the price of a new diesel engine, which he should have.

puppypaws
06-30-2010, 09:34 AM
This is one of those threads that will take forever to die. :) I haven't read every single post, but the fact that the deck was bent seems to be a matter of contention to many of you. I'm thinking I read that YardFarmerLLC says the deck was already damanged when he took delivery of the machine? That, to me, is a huge clue that the machine had been abused prior to his purchasing it.


A bent deck can happen, but to bend a deck on a Bad Boy boy would take a pretty severe accident (like falling off a cliff), it is very difficult to believe anyone is capable of bending a BB deck if you've ever seen one. Let's say the deck was bent when he bought the mower, what would be your explanation of the three problems listed below that came into play after he and his people starting operating the mower? One other question, how many wheel spindles or yokes have you seen.....or heard of.....being broken off a commercial zero turn mower?


QUOTE:

This Year:

Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing. Machine Shop repair.

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle. Machine shop repair.

Spindle housing broke off of frame. Machine shop repair.

YardFarmersLLC
06-30-2010, 10:10 AM
The deck is not nearly like they make it sound. I will post a picture later.

The mower was bought to never have had a problem, but the engine overheated, and blew up at around 175 hours if memory serves me correct. When at the cat dealer, they revealed it did not have the original water pump!?!? That's misrepresentation at best.

Last week, it overheated again. Any damage from being crashed, ect happened while I was on the unit when the steering linkages broke. It slid over hills twice like that. Plus, when it overhears if you are on a hill it dies and slides off.
Posted via Mobile Device

LwnmwrMan22
06-30-2010, 10:35 AM
I had 2 Ferris IS4000 when they first came out. I'll never own another Ferris ZTR because I had problems like Farmer has had, with minimal factory support.

It even went as far as the factory rep said I obviously shouldn't be mowing in the rain.

With that said, I would have taken the $1000 deal and promptly sold the new mower. YardFarmer will never get close to that value for the mower anywhere, anytime.

Take the loss on the taxes.
Posted via Mobile Device

MOturkey
06-30-2010, 10:45 AM
A bent deck can happen, but to bend a deck on a Bad Boy boy would take a pretty severe accident (like falling off a cliff), it is very difficult to believe anyone is capable of bending a BB deck if you've ever seen one. Let's say the deck was bent when he bought the mower, what would be your explanation of the three problems listed below that came into play after he and his people starting operating the mower? One other question, how many wheel spindles or yokes have you seen.....or heard of.....being broken off a commercial zero turn mower?


QUOTE:

This Year:

Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing. Machine Shop repair.

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle. Machine shop repair.

Spindle housing broke off of frame. Machine shop repair.

I'm not arguing with anyone. Facts are facts, and mostly, but they are always open to interpretation, because of the way they are presented. I'm just saying I'm giving the guy the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are in. I'm also giving Bad Boy the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are in. Generally, as we all know, in a "he said, she said" type of situation, the truth is often somewhere in the middle. I'm just curious exactly where the middle is. Neill

John_99_2007
06-30-2010, 10:48 AM
Everyone thinks mowers are to expensive and service should be better.
But where do you think companies get the money to pay out these bogus claims?
They charge every one us us who is honest, use their machines properly, and stay current on preventative mx a little bit more when we buy.
So if you think companies should do more in these situations, stop complaining about mower prices.

MS_SURVEYOR
06-30-2010, 11:21 AM
YardFarmersLLC,

I'm seeing Popular Opinion on this board change. Your Crusade to shame the company on this public board has taken a turn for the worse.

Time to Move On!

Good Luck!

:drinkup:

puppypaws
06-30-2010, 11:45 AM
I'm not arguing with anyone. Facts are facts, and mostly, but they are always open to interpretation, because of the way they are presented. I'm just saying I'm giving the guy the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are in. I'm also giving Bad Boy the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are in. Generally, as we all know, in a "he said, she said" type of situation, the truth is often somewhere in the middle. I'm just curious exactly where the middle is. Neill

I am not arguing but one point, the three damage statements to the forks and spindles just don't happen, not even from extremely rough use. I would say if you tell an employee you will give him $1000.00 if he, while driving the mower can knock a wheel spindle off the frame, he will not be able to accomplish this feat. I have dealt with many court cases, attorneys and judges, and I can promise you this case would come out in favor of the company, if not for these three specific damage statements it could easily go in the owners favor.

The truth will always be somewhere in the middle unless you tear up a virtually indestructible part of a mower. Then the truth takes a 180° turn in favor of the company.

YardFarmersLLC
06-30-2010, 11:51 AM
I find it astonishing that many of you have overlooked the fact that badboy admits fault for "at least 75%" of my trouble. And the fact that all of my local clients and competition comment on how easy we are on stuff.

The problem is that they admitted fault, and still yet refuse to come any closer on a resolution.

To anyone who chooses to deal with them, good luck. I got a pile of crap. I also have one good one. I hope you have better luck than me.
Posted via Mobile Device

lawnsnake
06-30-2010, 12:09 PM
I want to respond back to a previous post on this thread about the parts deal we offered yardfarmerllc. This dealer cost parts offer was meant for non warranty items ie service parts and options. Also, the offer we gave him was exactly how I previously stated. His counter offer was for us to give him the 4 hour mower with no warranty straight up, no money involved. We refused because should he have any issues with a "new" mower and we didn't agree to fix the issue under warranty, he would be right back on here posting negative things about BB.
For the record, BB knew all about him positng about his battle with us on here before he ever showed up at the factory Monday morning. Knowing this, one would have to think BB offered him a more than fair deal. He even called a local Scag dealer from our factory to try get us to change our mind about the offer, and we still made our offer as previously stated. We NEVER want to lose a BB customer, but sometimes you cannot please them all.

RDA
06-30-2010, 12:10 PM
I find it astonishing that many of you have overlooked the fact that badboy admits fault for "at least 75%" of my trouble. And the fact that all of my local clients and competition comment on how easy we are on stuff.

Well, if they are 75% at fault, maybe they should have given you 75% of the original sales cost towards a new unit? Seems to me they went even further than that in their offers to you so you should have taken them up on one of their options. You didn't buy a new unit in the first place yet you expect a new unit in return, that alone doesn't hold water in my estimation.

Besides, no one is specifying what that 75% is and I doubt it was arrived at in too technical of a fashion and was probably simply said off the cuff probably to acknowledge your concerns but to not take full ownership of the situation either.

The problem is that they admitted fault, and still yet refuse to come any closer on a resolution.

Again, as you stated, they didn't fully assume fault, obviously there were other factors involved. They offered two forms of very reasonable resolution, you simply chose to ignore very reasonable offers despite having not paid full price or buying a new unit originally, you purchased a used unit at a discounted price but now want a new unit with full warranty.

To anyone who chooses to deal with them, good luck. I got a pile of crap. I also have one good one. I hope you have better luck than me.
Posted via Mobile Device

I could go on, you contradict yourself multiple times in this thread (one point you say you "The mower was bought to never have had a problem" and in another spot state "The deck has a slight bend in the front of it...It was there upon purchase and they assured me it was fine and not bent." Well which is it, was there a problem when purchased or not? Was it bent or not?

I have no dealings or relationships with Bad Boy or any other ZTR manufacturer but I do have some common sense of reasonable dealings, you aren't being reasonable.

Regards,

Rich

scagmanjosh
06-30-2010, 12:37 PM
I am not arguing but one point, the three damage statements to the forks and spindles just don't happen, not even from extremely rough use. I would say if you tell an employee you will give him $1000.00 if he, while driving the mower can knock a wheel spindle off the frame, he will not be able to accomplish this feat. I have dealt with many court cases, attorneys and judges, and I can promise you this case would come out in favor of the company, if not for these three specific damage statements it could easily go in the owners favor.

The truth will always be somewhere in the middle unless you tear up a virtually indestructible part of a mower. Then the truth takes a 180° turn in favor of the company.

^^

Amen Puppy. I run a Scag Tiger Cub and dont have any personal experience with a BB, but I totally agree with you on those three items. I cant fathom how one could knock one wheel spindle, let alone TWO spindles, off the frame of a commercial ZTR without driving it off the roof of a building onto solid concrete. Bend a fork, sure, with extreme abuse and disregard for what you are doing, it could happen. Snap one off? Don't see how its possible.

Hawg City Lawns
06-30-2010, 12:38 PM
I want to respond back to a previous post on this thread about the parts deal we offered yardfarmerllc. This dealer cost parts offer was meant for non warranty items ie service parts and options. Also, the offer we gave him was exactly how I previously stated. His counter offer was for us to give him the 4 hour mower with no warranty straight up, no money involved. We refused because should he have any issues with a "new" mower and we didn't agree to fix the issue under warranty, he would be right back on here posting negative things about BB.
For the record, BB knew all about him positng about his battle with us on here before he ever showed up at the factory Monday morning. Knowing this, one would have to think BB offered him a more than fair deal. He even called a local Scag dealer from our factory to try get us to change our mind about the offer, and we still made our offer as previously stated. We NEVER want to lose a BB customer, but sometimes you cannot please them all.

if this is true YardFarmerLLC you are very childish what good would calling a scag dealer in arkansas do for you if you live 550 miles away? sounds like you just wanted the keys to a free mower still.. my grandpa always gave me the wise words after i threw a fit (after throwing the fit) "son do you feel better" "yes grandpa" "well son you still have the same problem" i think this fits nicely with this thread

YardFarmersLLC
06-30-2010, 12:39 PM
After lawnsnakes last comment, which is once again misrepresented, I am done with the public discussion about it. If anyone cares to know the truth, pm or text me. Bad boys reps are being dishonest and need to man up. 6068752421
Posted via Mobile Device

YardFarmersLLC
06-30-2010, 12:42 PM
After lawnsnakes last comment, which is once again misrepresented, I am done with the public discussion about it. If anyone cares to know the truth, pm or text me. Bad boys reps are being dishonest and need to man up. I think it's sad that the owners probably have no clue what's actually going on. 6068752421
Posted via Mobile Device

MS_SURVEYOR
06-30-2010, 12:53 PM
After lawnsnakes last comment, which is once again misrepresented, I am done with the public discussion about it. If anyone cares to know the truth, pm or text me. Bad boys reps are being dishonest and need to man up. I think it's sad that the owners probably have no clue what's actually going on. 6068752421
Posted via Mobile Device

I tried to give you good advice! :rolleyes:

Get your butt out of here! :nono:

Popular Opinion on this board has change! :walking:

rtharris
06-30-2010, 12:53 PM
After lawnsnakes last comment, which is once again misrepresented, I am done with the public discussion about it. If anyone cares to know the truth, pm or text me. Bad boys reps are being dishonest and need to man up. I think it's sad that the owners probably have no clue what's actually going on. 6068752421
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

rtharris
06-30-2010, 01:03 PM
First of all it doesnt matter what BB reps have said You cant be pleased other than BB giuing u a new mower Your credibility was shot when u made the claims about the frame and spindle damage Id also stop talking about it publicly In my opinion it almost seems like a scam
good luckPosted via Mobile Device

YardFarmersLLC
06-30-2010, 01:06 PM
That's fine. I only want to give fair warning. I am most likely done with this discussion, that's why I gave my contact info.
Posted via Mobile Device

Hawg City Lawns
06-30-2010, 01:13 PM
but still i want to know why you called a scag dealer in arkansas 550 miles away from where you live?

rtharris
06-30-2010, 01:20 PM
Since u are leaving I wanted to say that I hoped ur first experience here at lawnsite had been a pleasant one
Posted via Mobile Device

lotsagrass
06-30-2010, 01:24 PM
I was curious about the 500 hours of use comment. Some seem to think it's a ton of use. I whipped out the PC calculator and did some figuring just out of curiosity :)

500 hrs divided by let's just say for argument's sake, 4 hours (as if you mowed 4 hours in 1 day)...that's 125 days of use at 4 hours per day. Now, divide 125 by 5 if you mow 5 days in a week...that equals 25 weeks figuring just 5 business days of use. Now divide that 25 weeks by 4 since there are 4 weeks per month, that's 6.25 months of mowing...which to me would seem very, very reasonable for someone mowing commercially....at just 4 hours of mowing per day as I mentioned before. I can see that happening very easily even if it's not your 'main' line of work. It appears he does backhoe work, etc...along WITH some mowing work. So maybe it's just a misunderstanding of what 'main line of work' means. 4 hours of use per day in a 5 day work week would seem very normal to me, but I don't mow commercially, so maybe I'm wrong ;)

Anyway...I just thought I'd figure out how much use 500 hours really is. So there ya go.

YardFarmersLLC
06-30-2010, 01:30 PM
but still i want to know why you called a scag dealer in arkansas 550 miles away from where you live?

I didn't. The scag dealer was a relative in ky who was curious about how I was being treated. He shot me a price on a scag. Sadly, his shop is three hours from me, and warranty would be a pain. He was just wondering how if was going.
Posted via Mobile Device

RDA
06-30-2010, 02:19 PM
I didn't. The scag dealer was a relative in ky who was curious about how I was being treated. He shot me a price on a scag. Sadly, his shop is three hours from me, and warranty would be a pain. He was just wondering how if was going.
Posted via Mobile Device

So, while visiting with BB representatives at their place of business in an attempt to address the situation, you call a Scag dealer in your home state that happens to be a relative in order to give him an update on the situation? What a bunch of nonsense, is this relative your mom?

And you state that BB reps are dishonest and misrepresenting the situation? I personally think you are the one that keeps digging yourself a bigger hole and you have yet to truly refute any comment made by the BB representative.

Regards,

Rich

rtharris
06-30-2010, 02:31 PM
Lets get this straight u have a relative in Ky three hrs from u that sells Scags but u dont buy from him because its too far for warranty work but u drive 550 miles to get a BB Man this just keeps getting more bizzare Do u ever say anything that makes sense
Posted via Mobile Device

YardFarmersLLC
06-30-2010, 02:32 PM
No, the bad boy reps had to call a boss to relay info, and excused themselves for a bit. They were gone several minutes and I returned a call from the ky dealer who is my cousin, not my mom genius. I would love to know how many of you guys are actual commercial cutters out there doing real work, not cutting grannies yard.
Posted via Mobile Device

RDA
06-30-2010, 02:54 PM
No, the bad boy reps had to call a boss to relay info, and excused themselves for a bit. They were gone several minutes and I returned a call from the ky dealer who is my cousin, not my mom genius.

Thanks for the clarification, it is difficult to discern fact from fiction out of your comments.

I would love to know how many of you guys are actual commercial cutters out there doing real work, not cutting grannies yard.

Good point, because being a "commercial cutter" is the only way anyone would have enough knowledge to be able to figure out what to do in this situation...

I'd love to know if you have any common sense whatsoever. I am still dumbfounded at the thought that you could buy a used mower at a discounted price, use it for ~450 hours and expect the factory to give you a brand new equivalent machine due to the problems you encountered (even under the false assumption that they were completely at fault for its demise which simply doesn't appear to be true).

Regards,

Rich

MS_SURVEYOR
06-30-2010, 03:13 PM
:rolleyes:

:confused:

:dizzy:

:cry:

:sleeping:

:waving:

:walking:

:laugh:

:drinkup:

pikewillis1
06-30-2010, 03:37 PM
"Bad Boy, Bad Boy (Mowers) What you gonna do, What you gonna do when they (break) on you"

YardFarmersLLC
06-30-2010, 05:11 PM
Ok, I am glad to be home at a computer instead of on a phone. I apologize if some of my comments have been unclear, or seemingly ignorant. I honestly think that several of us (myself included) have made some dumb statements and been unclear. I truly am sorry for that. My mobile comments have been jumbled while on the job.

That being said, please look at the fact that Bad Boy admitted fault to AT LEAST 75% of what has happened. Why does lawnsnake not address that?

Next, it takes poor quality materials to be brittle enough to SNAP off clean, and not bend. The fork part that broke twice has been where the spindle shaft attached to the flat top part of the fork. where the tube that the spindle travels through broke was at the weld POOR QUALITY WELD. They have broke in the least expected places. BB agreed the mower should never have failed in the places it did.

the warped deck---here is a pic of what they make out to be a severe bend in the deck:
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/badboy1.jpg

Quote from lawn snake, found on page 12 i think.

I want to respond back to a previous post on this thread about the parts deal we offered yardfarmerllc. This dealer cost parts offer was meant for non warranty items ie service parts and options.

WRONG, IT WAS IN PLACE OF WARRANTY


For the record, BB knew all about him positng about his battle with us on here before he ever showed up at the factory Monday morning. Knowing this, one would have to think BB offered him a more than fair deal.

THEY HAD TO ASK WHAT SITE IT WAS ON.

He even called a local Scag dealer from our factory to try get us to change our mind about the offer, and we still made our offer as previously stated.

THE SCAG DEALER WAS IN KY. NOT ARKANSAS. IT WAS TO FILL IN A COUSIN ON WHAT WAS HAPPENING, WHILE YOU ALL WERE OUTSIDE DISCUSSING THE DEAL OVER THE PHONE WITH YOUR BOSS.


I have a feeling lawnsnake is not Mike Foree, KY Rep. If so, lawnsnake is the guy who had to step in and blow a fuse to try and prove a point, while the KY rep stood back and watched.


I have no clue why so many of you make assumptions, shooting into thin air.

Also consider the fact that if you purchased a 100 hour from the factory WITH FULL WARRANTY, you would expect their support just like on a NEW mower. Its not like I purchased a mower from a stranger on EBAY and tried to go back on the factory over it. Yet I have no common sense???????? Really???????

RDA, I did not ask for a comparable mower free. I asked to trade a demo diesel unit for which i gave $8500, and trade it to a mower like I bought new for $7500.



I am out of time for now, but I will be able to pick through this further later tonight.

YardFarmersLLC
06-30-2010, 06:16 PM
I just had another phone discussion with bad boy. From our discussion lawnsnake, please do the right thing and admit openly that these mowers were not abused, and that bad boy holds fault for much of what happened.

As far as the deal, if they ever agreed upon 1000 between my mower and the lightning, full warranty, and parts and accessories at dealer cost, they did not make that clear at all. I told them I am sorry for what this has come down to, and wish we could have dealt in a calm manner.

Mr Foree called me liar and hung up on me, but thanks lawnsnake for calling me back for clarification. That was the adult thing to do.
Posted via Mobile Device

John_99_2007
06-30-2010, 07:21 PM
I bet BB has actually benefitted from this thread. I would be more likely to buy now than before.

puppypaws
06-30-2010, 08:45 PM
Ok, I am glad to be home at a computer instead of on a phone. I apologize if some of my comments have been unclear, or seemingly ignorant. I honestly think that several of us (myself included) have made some dumb statements and been unclear. I truly am sorry for that. My mobile comments have been jumbled while on the job.

That being said, please look at the fact that Bad Boy admitted fault to AT LEAST 75% of what has happened. Why does lawnsnake not address that?

Next, it takes poor quality materials to be brittle enough to SNAP off clean, and not bend. The fork part that broke twice has been where the spindle shaft attached to the flat top part of the fork. where the tube that the spindle travels through broke was at the weld POOR QUALITY WELD. They have broke in the least expected places. BB agreed the mower should never have failed in the places it did.[QUOTE]

I can buy a spindle shaft breaking from a poor weld but your original post did not describe this as what had taken place. I would have understood if you said the spindle shaft broke off where it was welded to the fork. I find it still hard to believe you could have broken both sides along with the spindle housing off the frame, as stated in the third sentence below. I mean, how do you go about breaking a solid welded cylindrical spindle tube away from the rectangular tubing it is solid welded to.
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103593&stc=1&d=1205942183


QUOTE:

This Year:

Front wheel fork broke loose from spindle on left hand side second week of mowing. Machine Shop repair.

Right hand fork broke loose from spindle. Machine shop repair.

Spindle housing broke off of frame. Machine shop repair.




I just started a thread named "The epitome of customer service" and this is what a Hustler representative did for one of their customers, which I believe no other mower manufacturer's customer service would come close to doing. This is the reps response below to his customer.




Ken,
The customer is # 1, as you can see by this forum, this is what I do in addition to my regular duties as a territory sales manager with Hustler.

I have personally handled all the posts in this forum and in other forums on LS for over 10 years now, our intention is to provide information and help if needed in areas where needed.

I am sorry you are reading my posts as you are, I am not meaning to offend you at all, in fact I have been in contact with Rodney, Alan and the dealers during this whole process, and have visited with 2 out of the 3 dealers in person in the last 2 weeks.

I am sorry you weren't satisfied with the first 2 dealers, as I hear today, your mower is ready for pick up from the 3rd dealer, if it is not to your satisfaction this time I will personally handle the return of your mower for what you paid for it and put you in a brand new freshly built from the factory equivalent.

LwnmwrMan22
06-30-2010, 09:20 PM
My Ferris IS4000's that I had, the front suspension arms broke off at the same place as these Badboys.

The first time, the response was I abused.

The second time, they welded the arm under warranty.

The third time, they replaced the arms with square tubed arms, instead of round. I also argued and argued that they needed to replace the arms on the second mower.

jomeokee
06-30-2010, 10:07 PM
if it is not to your satisfaction this time I will personally handle the return of your mower for what you paid for it and put you in a brand new freshly built from the factory equivalent.[/B]



puppypaws,

Please forgive me but I'm not following your post at all :confused: Are you offering a Hustler mower in place of a BB? Or do you rep BB in addition to Hustler???


Tom

jomeokee
06-30-2010, 10:20 PM
Puppypaws,

As as read further down the thread list I came to your post titled "The Epitome of Customer Service".
Had I read your thread I would not have commented.

It sounds like Hustler handles customer service a little differently than Bad Boy.

I now have the rest of the story.:)

Tom

nepatsfan
06-30-2010, 10:25 PM
I bet BB has actually benefitted from this thread. I would be more likely to buy now than before.

Not from what I have read. Abused or not...some of these issues are a bit ridiculous and they dont sound very customer oriented. A company like Scag has already proven itself. They already have the benefit of the doubt. A company like bad boy(who???)needs to prove themselves and stop blaming the operator for things that are clearly factory issues.

bkfran69
06-30-2010, 10:49 PM
bingo. That makes alot of sense. Lets just see how this plays out.

John_99_2007
06-30-2010, 10:59 PM
Like I said before, the next time you think to yourself mowers are quite expensive remember they need money to resolve these "claims"

John_99_2007
06-30-2010, 11:04 PM
And the next time its unclear if damage was caused by you, your dealer remembers people who told odd stories.

John_99_2007
06-30-2010, 11:05 PM
Add the next time you have an urgent question, your dealer may not return your message because some people just waste his time...

Lawn by Deere
06-30-2010, 11:11 PM
Add the next time you have an urgent question, your dealer may not return your message because some people just waste his time...

You aint doing anybody any favors

MS_SURVEYOR
06-30-2010, 11:54 PM
I have never seen anything good come from Popular Opinion bashing companies of any kind on a public web site. It doesn't matter what I feel about what happen. Nor what anyone else thinks about it. Once one crosses the line by going public, you just as soon pull a gun and use it. The fact is this is going somewhere nobody wants to be. Bad Boy is not going to say a thing about this. YardFarmers has said too much about it. Bad things happen all the time. This happen to be one of those times. I know one thing. Bad Boy builds the most over built mower frame and mower deck in the industry bar none. Their customer support is top notch. Bad Boy cares. I've talked to several Bad Boy owners. That's what helped my decision to buy Bad Boy. I feel YardFarmers is a good man. But something happened. I wasn't there. None of ya'll were there. YardFarmers tried to use Popular Opinion to judge his case. Bad Boy said we'll meet you some where in the middle. That wasn't good enough for YardFarmers. What he did on the forum wouldn't work against me let alone any company. Right here for every body to read is a record. It wouldn't matter if it was Exmark, Scag, Bob Cat, Dixie Chopper, on and on and on. All would have dealt with this the same way as if you would have pulled a gun.

Good Night!

br549oicu8
07-01-2010, 12:10 AM
I bet BB has actually benefitted from this thread. I would be more likely to buy now than before.

No way would I buy a BB now. I'lll deal with the brands that always take care of me...Kubota, Everride........

MS_SURVEYOR
07-01-2010, 12:29 AM
No way would I buy a BB now. I'lll deal with the brands that always take care of me...Kubota, Everride........

If you can't say something constructive or positive..keep thy big fat ugly mouth shut!

My thought on this is, some people are going to buy one brand, some are going to buy another brand. But no branded company is going to take care of someone trying to get over on them. And that is what this case is smelling like. Say this was Kubota. Say both front yokes and wheels were ripped off, after the engine was blown and warrantied. Then the deck was just stripped off and trashed. Then the owner wanted a new mower after all of this, or he would trash the Kubota Mower Company on a public web site. I bet Kubota would make it right and give the gent a new mower with a full warranty and say sorry, and THANK YOU!

Grubrunner
07-01-2010, 07:12 AM
Lets get this straight u have a relative in Ky three hrs from u that sells Scags but u dont buy from him because its too far for warranty work but u drive 550 miles to get a BB Man this just keeps getting more bizzare Do u ever say anything that makes sense
Posted via Mobile Device

You find it funny how he's avoided to directly address this post by you?

That's because not only has he contradicted & embarrased himself throughout this thread, but his entire pathetic attempt at Badboy-bashing is based on fabrication and innuendo.

No way would I buy a BB now. I'lll deal with the brands that always take care of me...Kubota, Everride........

You base this judgement on ONE person's [highly flawed, poorly formulated, dramatized & suspicious] experience from a reputable company? That's pretty sad.

Try speaking with the several, several Badboy owners both here and in person who are not only satisfied by these fine mowers but who also are content with the company's service....

rtharris
07-01-2010, 08:43 AM
You find it funny how he's avoided to directly address this post by you?

That's because not only has he contradicted & embarrased himself throughout this thread, but his entire pathetic attempt at Badboy-bashing is based on fabrication and innuendo.



You base this judgement on ONE person's [highly flawed, poorly formulated, dramatized & suspicious] experience from a reputable company? That's pretty sad.

Try speaking with the several, several Badboy owners both here and in person who are not only satisfied by these fine mowers but who also are content with the company's service....
Posted via Mobile Device

rtharris
07-01-2010, 08:52 AM
You find it funny how he's avoided to directly address this post by you?

That's because not only has he contradicted & embarrased himself throughout this thread, but his entire pathetic attempt at Badboy-bashing is based on fabrication and innuendo.



You base this judgement on ONE person's [highly flawed, poorly formulated, dramatized & suspicious] experience from a reputable company? That's pretty sad.

Try speaking with the several, several Badboy owners both here and in person who are not only satisfied by these fine mowers but who also are content with the company's service....

Yes Grubrunner i find it rather suspicious that he didnt respond to that post but really what could he say to correct his statement It made no sense at all
Posted via Mobile Device

LwnmwrMan22
07-01-2010, 09:47 AM
For all of you that are jumping on YardFarmer, doesn't it seem odd to you that he has a second Bad Boy mower that has no problems, that he's completely happy with, that caused him to buy this second (troublesome) mower?

1 of 3 things.

Either the new mower was a new design, not tested enough in the field by others than those employed by Bad Boy. If any one here was trying to use Ferris when they first came out with the suspension, they literally would NOT throw grass, it would just roll out about 1 foot from the deck. Eventually Ferris redesigned the deck, and warrantied the shell, but they wouldn't warranty the swapping of all of the pulleys, deck belts, hanger hardware, just the deck shell.

This was after they had to redesign the front IS arms.

The second problem would / could be the operator that YardFarmer has "dedicated" to this mower. In one of the original posts, YardFarmer said something about he had a 54 year old guy that either this guy, or YardFarmer himself would use this mower.

However, YardFarmer says the steering linkages break when Yard was using it himself. This doesn't eliminate the fact that Yard could be baby-ing the mower, but it's completely abused when Yard's landscaping, and not around.

Lastly, it really could just flat out be a lemon. If you've never had a piece of equipment that was just flat out a lemon, you haven't bought enough equipment. It can be very frustrating. It CAN cost you more money in downtime than repairs.

If YardFarmer had the mentality of my father, then YardFarmer would think he's being screwed by Bad Boy with the $1000 and his mower deal.

If YardFarmer had the mentality of myself, I would have jumped all over the $1000 deal. After all, he's already got the first mower which they're completely happy with.

Again, if you've never had a complete lemon of a mower, you'll not understand the situation.

It's no different than when you go to a specific yard to mow and 3-4 weeks in a row, something no quite right happens. The customer thinks you're a moron, that you have no idea how to cut grass, yet you're trying to explain to the customer that you really do know what you're doing.

YardFarmersLLC
07-01-2010, 10:56 AM
Grubrunner, I bought the first bb when there was a dealer. It was good enough I didn't need a dealer. I was a believer at that point, and when I had one small problem with it bb went above an beyond to correct it.

After this second deal, I vowed not to buy another mower from out of town because service has sucked this time. I will do business in the future locally.
Posted via Mobile Device

MOturkey
07-01-2010, 11:31 AM
There's no way to keep up with all of this, and get anything else done, but I'm going to throw one more point in the pile, if I may.

I can't recall who, but I believe more than one person has made statements regarding how it would be next to impossible to break the forks off the front end of the mower. I believe one person went so far as to say they weren't sure it would happen every time even if the mower was dropped intentionally on the front end.

Okay, we all agree it would be a chore to knock the props out from under the front of any mower, including the one in question, yet, it happened, so, doesn't it appear that it is likely due to faulty materials or a manufacturing defect (welds), rather than to Yardfarmer being so absusive to his machine that a perfectly sound unit broke an almost unbreakable part? Just seems logical to me.

As for the deal BB offered, I have to agree I would have taken the deal and driven as fast as possible to KY just in case they changed their minds, because even though it might not be the ideal scenario, in his mind, it is quite likley a much better deal than he will ever get disposing of the mower in any other fashion. Even if the thing went on Craig's list as soon as I got home, I would have taken the best way out, monetarily. I suspect principals were more important than cash, in Yardfarmer's mind.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-01-2010, 11:32 AM
For all of you that are jumping on YardFarmer, doesn't it seem odd to you that he has a second Bad Boy mower that has no problems, that he's completely happy with, that caused him to buy this second (troublesome) mower?

1 of 3 things.

Either the new mower was a new design, not tested enough in the field by others than those employed by Bad Boy. If any one here was trying to use Ferris when they first came out with the suspension, they literally would NOT throw grass, it would just roll out about 1 foot from the deck. Eventually Ferris redesigned the deck, and warrantied the shell, but they wouldn't warranty the swapping of all of the pulleys, deck belts, hanger hardware, just the deck shell.

This was after they had to redesign the front IS arms.

The second problem would / could be the operator that YardFarmer has "dedicated" to this mower. In one of the original posts, YardFarmer said something about he had a 54 year old guy that either this guy, or YardFarmer himself would use this mower.

However, YardFarmer says the steering linkages break when Yard was using it himself. This doesn't eliminate the fact that Yard could be baby-ing the mower, but it's completely abused when Yard's landscaping, and not around.

Lastly, it really could just flat out be a lemon. If you've never had a piece of equipment that was just flat out a lemon, you haven't bought enough equipment. It can be very frustrating. It CAN cost you more money in downtime than repairs.

If YardFarmer had the mentality of my father, then YardFarmer would think he's being screwed by Bad Boy with the $1000 and his mower deal.

If YardFarmer had the mentality of myself, I would have jumped all over the $1000 deal. After all, he's already got the first mower which they're completely happy with.

Again, if you've never had a complete lemon of a mower, you'll not understand the situation.

It's no different than when you go to a specific yard to mow and 3-4 weeks in a row, something no quite right happens. The customer thinks you're a moron, that you have no idea how to cut grass, yet you're trying to explain to the customer that you really do know what you're doing.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

That's some funny stuff you got there! :laugh:

I can tell you've never looked at a Bad Boy Lighting or AOS! :waving:

These are not toy box store home owner mowers. I could go to my mower with a 20 lb maul to brake those parts nothing short of a few hundred strokes, and still never brake them. I've given YardFarmer every benefit of doubt, but these mowers just don't fail like that through every day use. The more I think about it, this is starting to sound like that mower was dropped off a trailer at high speeds. Retrodog did the same thing with one of his Bad Boys. Flipped the mower off his trailer doing interstate speeds, stopped and started it up and drove back on the trailer. Got back to his shop, checked it out to find nothing wrong. And as far as I know he's stii mowing with that mower today! It's easy for some body that has never really looked at the battle ready tank of a mower like a Bad Boy AOS to say, cheap light built mowers with flimsy parts just coming apart under normal use. Go tell it to you mama, because I'm not buying it.:nono:

Grubrunner
07-01-2010, 11:46 AM
Grubrunner, I bought the first bb when there was a dealer. It was good enough I didn't need a dealer.

Poor assumption on your behalf.

I'd always operate through a dealer prior to even contemplating calling a manufacturer's 1-800 number... unless push came to shove. Experience over the years has taught me that a dealer [who sells several different brands] has a lot more to lose by not keeping you happy & content than a manufacturer does. Think about what it is I'm implying.....

I was a believer at that point, and when I had one small problem with it bb went above an beyond to correct it.

Then, sir, why do you think they chose not to take the same route the next time around? Hmmm.....

After this second deal, I vowed not to buy another mower from out of town because service has sucked this time. I will do business in the future locally.
Posted via Mobile Device

Amen.

Anyway, I'm gonna' end my contribution to this thread here because this is very rapidly turning into a thread bashing YOU rather than Badboy..... and even though I don't believe your entire story for one second, I do feel for you nonetheless, because you're no different to ALL of us here at one time or another in life.... a customer.

I wish you the best.

PS: Words of wisdom from my wife who was a State and Federal prosecutor for many years: "There's always two sides to a story.... and then there's the truth."

LwnmwrMan22
07-01-2010, 12:14 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

That's some funny stuff you got there! :laugh:

I can tell you've never looked at a Bad Boy Lighting or AOS! :waving:

These are not toy box store home owner mowers. I could go to my mower with a 20 lb maul to brake those parts nothing short of a few hundred strokes, and still never brake them. I've given YardFarmer every benefit of doubt, but these mowers just don't fail like that through every day use. The more I think about it, this is starting to sound like that mower was dropped off a trailer at high speeds. Retrodog did the same thing with one of his Bad Boys. Flipped the mower off his trailer doing interstate speeds, stopped and started it up and drove back on the trailer. Got back to his shop, checked it out to find nothing wrong. And as far as I know he's stii mowing with that mower today! It's easy for some body that has never really looked at the battle ready tank of a mower like a Bad Boy AOS to say, cheap light built mowers with flimsy parts just coming apart under normal use. Go tell it to you mama, because I'm not buying it.:nono:

Okay, so then you'd have to go with my 3rd option, that the mower is just flat out a lemon, at which point YardFarmer is in the right.

YardFarmer is happy with his first mower, so he buys a second.

We already have a thread about how a mower fell off of a trailer at highway speeds and is still in use.

You contradict yourself by saying "sounds like the mower was dropped off of a trailer" and then say "Retrodog did that and his mower is fine". You can't have it both ways.

So, if you're such a believer with Retrodog's thread, you'd have to be in agreement that YardFarmer's mower, for whatever the reason, is a lemon. It had to have been built on Friday of Memorial Day weekend last year.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-01-2010, 12:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHT0SPCsBj4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAujhAFPDhc

MS_SURVEYOR
07-01-2010, 12:18 PM
Okay, so then you'd have to go with my 3rd option, that the mower is just flat out a lemon, at which point YardFarmer is in the right.

YardFarmer is happy with his first mower, so he buys a second.

We already have a thread about how a mower fell off of a trailer at highway speeds and is still in use.

You contradict yourself by saying "sounds like the mower was dropped off of a trailer" and then say "Retrodog did that and his mower is fine". You can't have it both ways.

So, if you're such a believer with Retrodog's thread, you'd have to be in agreement that YardFarmer's mower, for whatever the reason, is a lemon. It had to have been built on Friday of Memorial Day weekend last year.

:laugh:

You need to go look at a Bad Boy AOS! Then get back with me! :waving:

LwnmwrMan22
07-01-2010, 12:38 PM
Listen, I don't need to see videos put out by Bad Boy, Kubota, Ferris, Toro, Scag, Hustler, Snapper, Yazoo-Kees, Woods, Grasshopper, Simplicity, Echo, Stihl, Redmax, Dodge, Ford, Chevy, whoever.

YOU said you could go out and pound on the forks 200 times with a 20 lb maul and not break those off.

YOU brought up Retrodog's mower falliing off at highway speeds and it was okay.

Instead of telling me to look at a mower I will never buy because there only one within 50 miles of me, and he never called me back when I tried to demo one 3 different times, explain to me how all of this stuff happened to YardFarmer's mower??

It's a freaking lemon.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-01-2010, 12:48 PM
Okay, so then you'd have to go with my 3rd option, that the mower is just flat out a lemon, at which point YardFarmer is in the right.

YardFarmer is happy with his first mower, so he buys a second.

We already have a thread about how a mower fell off of a trailer at highway speeds and is still in use.

You contradict yourself by saying "sounds like the mower was dropped off of a trailer" and then say "Retrodog did that and his mower is fine". You can't have it both ways.

So, if you're such a believer with Retrodog's thread, you'd have to be in agreement that YardFarmer's mower, for whatever the reason, is a lemon. It had to have been built on Friday of Memorial Day weekend last year.

Ok! So you want to know the difference between Retrodog and YardFarmer's mowers. Retrodog's mower came off and slid to a stop without hitting anything. Where as YardFarmer's mower came off slid down the road and hit a curb, thus the front yokes, deck, linkage took a great shock. No lemon involved!

Once again, go look at a Bad Boy Pup and up to the AOS, then get back! :waving:

MS_SURVEYOR
07-01-2010, 01:18 PM
Post #34

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=221313&page=4

LwnmwrMan22
07-01-2010, 01:44 PM
Once again, I can't go look at one. There are none near me.

If Yard said his mower hit a curb, fine, I stand corrected.

If Yard hasn't said that, then either he's trying to pull a fast one, or he flat out doesn't know.

I've been in the situation before I had employees where mowers that people spoke highly of, they were flat out junk.

I have experienced what Yard is going through.
Posted via Mobile Device

br549oicu8
07-01-2010, 01:45 PM
My thought on this is, some people are going to buy one brand, some are going to buy another brand. But no branded company is going to take care of someone trying to get over on them. And that is what this case is smelling like. Say this was Kubota. Say both front yokes and wheels were ripped off, after the engine was blown and warrantied. Then the deck was just stripped off and trashed. Then the owner wanted a new mower after all of this, or he would trash the Kubota Mower Company on a public web site. I bet Kubota would make it right and give the gent a new mower with a full warranty and say sorry, and THANK YOU!

No. I don't think Kubota would do that, but I will tell you of my experience with Kubota. I had a Kubota FZ-2400 years ago. I had problems with the fuel tank spout leaking on the tank. Kubota had a a fix for it but it didn't work well and I ended up having to replace the tank a few times. It tended to leak and split at the spout. At the GIE Expo a few years back I mentioned this to one of the Kubota reps (from Japan) and really got his ear. He called others over to listen to my problem, all the while taking notes. A week after I returned home my dealer called me. He asked if I had talked to Kubota at the Expo, and of course I said yes. He was directed by Kubota to pick up my mower, install a new tank with the retro kit plastic welded in place. All of this was free to me. AND by the way, the mower was over 8 years old with 2000 hours on it. THAT is what I call customer service. I never had another problem with it after that.
None of us really know if the Bad Boy mower was abused before it was sold to the end user on here. I feel his approach was decent. None of us are able to truly judge the situation.
Now to my comment about BB mowers. When I first saw them I was somewhat impressed. I am now seeing cheap units at farm stores. This scares me away as I have seen other companies (JD to be one) that started losing detail and quality for price. We are all entitled to an opinion, and that happens to be mine.

hackitdown
07-01-2010, 02:35 PM
I have to wonder if this "demo" mower was a demo, or a lemon that was returned by some other customer.

Regardless, I think if I were given that offer for a new mower for $1000 from BadBoy, I would jump all over that deal. I would suck it up and cut my losses. Especially since you got 400 hours of use out of the lemon.

YardFarmersLLC
07-01-2010, 02:40 PM
I don't think I ever said it was ran down a bank and crashed into a curb. If I did, please find it. Assumptions assumptions
Posted via Mobile Device

nepatsfan
07-01-2010, 06:05 PM
I don't think I ever said it was ran down a bank and crashed into a curb. If I did, please find it. Assumptions assumptions
Posted via Mobile Device

I think even if it was....all the stuff that you claimed happened to your mower still shouldnt have happened. That is some ridiculous stuff. I dont care, like I said before, Bad Boy should be trying to prove themselves. Companies like Scag, Exmark, Kubota already have the benefit of the doubt. Judging by the reps response, they dont really give a sh*t either. I will stay away!

MS_SURVEYOR
07-01-2010, 06:44 PM
I don't think I ever said it was ran down a bank and crashed into a curb. If I did, please find it. Assumptions assumptions
Posted via Mobile Device


No you didn't say that. But you're not saying a lot of things. I just got through washing my Bad Boy Pup. I looked hard at the parts you said just happened to break on their own under normal use. 1/2 inch steel caster yokes. 1/4 inch steel deck with a 1/2 inch leading edge. 2 Huge turnbuckles holding the front of the deck in place. (2) 3/4 inch thick forged arms holding the back of the deck. I could run that mower wide open hitting something and not hurt it. Now I just may have to go to the hospital. You can fool some of these yoyo's that have never seen a Bad Boy Pup and up that, Oh! It just happened!!!:cry: But you're not fooling me, or any other Bad Boy owner, nor the Bad Boy Company. You trashed that mower. Bad Boy took care of the engine under warranty. Bad Boy offered you a good settlement after you trashed that mower just to make you happy. But NO! Dude, $500 and a NEW MOWER to make you HAPPY AS A BAD BOY OWNER, after you trashed that mower. You Sir are a :dizzy: man!

I'm out of here. :waving:

YardFarmersLLC
07-01-2010, 07:35 PM
No you didn't say that. But you're not saying a lot of things. I just got through washing my Bad Boy Pup. I looked hard at the parts you said just happened to break on their own under normal use. 1/2 inch steel caster yokes. 1/4 inch steel deck with a 1/2 inch leading edge. 2 Huge turnbuckles holding the front of the deck in place. (2) 3/4 inch thick forged arms holding the back of the deck. I could run that mower wide open hitting something and not hurt it. Now I just may have to go to the hospital. You can fool some of these yoyo's that have never seen a Bad Boy Pup and up that, Oh! It just happened!!!:cry: But you're not fooling me, or any other Bad Boy owner, nor the Bad Boy Company. You trashed that mower. Bad Boy took care of the engine under warranty. Bad Boy offered you a good settlement after you trashed that mower just to make you happy. But NO! Dude, $500 and a NEW MOWER to make you HAPPY AS A BAD BOY OWNER, after you trashed that mower. You Sir are a :dizzy: man!

I'm out of here. :waving:

I did not say the turn buckles broke. Those things are tractor center links! I said the chain hangers that keep the deck level broke! Let me get some pics of the actual breaks up for you to survey sir.
Posted via Mobile Device

nepatsfan
07-01-2010, 08:14 PM
No you didn't say that. But you're not saying a lot of things. I just got through washing my Bad Boy Pup. I looked hard at the parts you said just happened to break on their own under normal use. 1/2 inch steel caster yokes. 1/4 inch steel deck with a 1/2 inch leading edge. 2 Huge turnbuckles holding the front of the deck in place. (2) 3/4 inch thick forged arms holding the back of the deck. I could run that mower wide open hitting something and not hurt it. Now I just may have to go to the hospital. You can fool some of these yoyo's that have never seen a Bad Boy Pup and up that, Oh! It just happened!!!:cry: But you're not fooling me, or any other Bad Boy owner, nor the Bad Boy Company. You trashed that mower. Bad Boy took care of the engine under warranty. Bad Boy offered you a good settlement after you trashed that mower just to make you happy. But NO! Dude, $500 and a NEW MOWER to make you HAPPY AS A BAD BOY OWNER, after you trashed that mower. You Sir are a :dizzy: man!

I'm out of here. :waving:
I think you are making his point. Unless that mower was dropped from a plane....its defective. I find it hard to believe you could do that kind of damage trying to abuse it....which is what my point is. He has another one...does that have all the same problems? I think he got a lemon.

fredmullegun
07-01-2010, 08:36 PM
No you didn't say that. But you're not saying a lot of things. I just got through washing my Bad Boy Pup. I looked hard at the parts you said just happened to break on their own under normal use. 1/2 inch steel caster yokes. 1/4 inch steel deck with a 1/2 inch leading edge. 2 Huge turnbuckles holding the front of the deck in place. (2) 3/4 inch thick forged arms holding the back of the deck. I could run that mower wide open hitting something and not hurt it. Now I just may have to go to the hospital. You can fool some of these yoyo's that have never seen a Bad Boy Pup and up that, Oh! It just happened!!!:cry: But you're not fooling me, or any other Bad Boy owner, nor the Bad Boy Company. You trashed that mower. Bad Boy took care of the engine under warranty. Bad Boy offered you a good settlement after you trashed that mower just to make you happy. But NO! Dude, $500 and a NEW MOWER to make you HAPPY AS A BAD BOY OWNER, after you trashed that mower. You Sir are a :dizzy: man!

I'm out of here. :waving:

Do you know the meaning of the term "lemon"? If these mowers usually can take serious abuse without fail that proves the lemon factor all the more.

these statements you are making do not jive.

1. I could trash that mower and not hurt it a bit.
2. You don't deserve a warranty because you trashed that mower.

YardFarmersLLC
07-01-2010, 08:36 PM
No you didn't say that. But you're not saying a lot of things. I just got through washing my Bad Boy Pup. I looked hard at the parts you said just happened to break on their own under normal use. 1/2 inch steel caster yokes. 1/4 inch steel deck with a 1/2 inch leading edge. 2 Huge turnbuckles holding the front of the deck in place. (2) 3/4 inch thick forged arms holding the back of the deck. I could run that mower wide open hitting something and not hurt it. Now I just may have to go to the hospital. You can fool some of these yoyo's that have never seen a Bad Boy Pup and up that, Oh! It just happened!!!:cry: But you're not fooling me, or any other Bad Boy owner, nor the Bad Boy Company. You trashed that mower. Bad Boy took care of the engine under warranty. Bad Boy offered you a good settlement after you trashed that mower just to make you happy. But NO! Dude, $500 and a NEW MOWER to make you HAPPY AS A BAD BOY OWNER, after you trashed that mower. You Sir are a :dizzy: man!

I'm out of here. :waving:
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
07-01-2010, 08:46 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

Lets see some close up detailed pictures of all the parts that broke, even after they were welded back into place, including where the deck hit allowing it to be bent.

YardFarmersLLC
07-01-2010, 10:58 PM
This whole thing stinks of defective parts. Period. and the pics will be soon to come.

LwnmwrMan22
07-01-2010, 11:28 PM
Do you know the meaning of the term "lemon"? If these mowers usually can take serious abuse without fail that proves the lemon factor all the more.

these statements you are making do not jive.

1. I could trash that mower and not hurt it a bit.
2. You don't deserve a warranty because you trashed that mower.

Finally, others that are trying to get across the point I was trying to make earlier.

topsites
07-01-2010, 11:56 PM
To be fair this is probably as close as you'll get me to actually supporting you in this case.

There is only ONE reason for it...
I've kept up with this thread somewhat, and from page to page your story stayed consistent,
which is usually the case when someone is telling the truth.
That in itself does give leverage.

My thought on this is, some people are going to buy one brand, some are going to buy another brand. But no branded company is going to take care of someone trying to get over on them. And that is what this case is smelling like. Say this was Kubota. Say both front yokes and wheels were ripped off, after the engine was blown and warrantied. Then the deck was just stripped off and trashed. Then the owner wanted a new mower after all of this, or he would trash the Kubota Mower Company on a public web site. I bet Kubota would make it right and give the gent a new mower with a full warranty and say sorry, and THANK YOU!

That doesn't make it right, I will stand my ground in front of anybody tries
to pull some &*^$% like that on me and they can bad mouth me all they want!

As you said, it is a distasteful situation possibly made worse by going public,
but I feel strongly about standing up for what is right be it as a business owner,
an employee, or a customer.

You are also right, we can't be 100% certain whether the machine was in fact abused or not,
the fact is the owner didn't ride it much, his employees did.
And, it's a diesel.

For example...
I've got a serious gouge on the front caster of my Ztr, how it happened long
story short I got too close with my WB and the blade took a chunk of steel out of it.
Embarrassing, yes.
Do I admit this kind of thing to most people, no, I don't make any special effort to hide it
but I also don't usually volunteer my moments of utter stupid.

So then...
Would I, as an employee, admit to the boss that I farkered up the most expensive toy on his list?
Would I, as an employee, admit to it when questioned?
Tell you what, maybe today I would but years ago, most likely not.

The thing is the story changes at the employee level for one simple reason: what comes of it.
Say if I knew I would get fired for it, would I might take a chance and lie about it,
I know that's not right but consider the alternative!
Even if it was my fault.

So how do we know who did what to this BB?

RDA
07-02-2010, 01:14 AM
You guys slay me, if this demo unit was so beat before it was sold to the current owner, how the heck was none of it noticed? Heck, it isn't even clear if the deck was bent when purchased, one post says it was, another says it wasn't.

If the welds were that poor, then any decent welder could have inspected them and told you if the welds failed or not. If the steel failed, any decent metal fabricator, engineer, etc. would be able to tell if the steel was poor, fatigued, abused, etc.

As far as the consistency of the OP various posts. That is a bit funny, I can barely figure out what he is truly stating in each one, let alone whether it is completely consistent or not.

If this "lemon" BB is such a POS as it appears, I have no idea why the OP wouldn't have immediately accepted one of the two options from BB .... as it is now, he still has a POS that is worth very little as opposed to one of the other two options where clearly he would be better off with either option (which he could have sold with a clear conscience compared to the "lemon" he has now and invested that amount into a brand he desires).

Regards,

Rich

LwnmwrMan22
07-02-2010, 01:21 AM
You guys slay me, if this demo unit was so beat before it was sold to the current owner, how the heck was none of it noticed? Heck, it isn't even clear if the deck was bent when purchased, one post says it was, another says it wasn't.

If the welds were that poor, then any decent welder could have inspected them and told you if the welds failed or not. If the steel failed, any decent metal fabricator, engineer, etc. would be able to tell if the steel was poor, fatigued, abused, etc.

As far as the consistency of the OP various posts. That is a bit funny, I can barely figure out what he is truly stating in each one, let alone whether it is completely consistent or not.

If this "lemon" BB is such a POS as it appears, I have no idea why the OP wouldn't have immediately accepted one of the two options from BB .... as it is now, he still has a POS that is worth very little as opposed to one of the other two options where clearly he would be better off with either option (which he could have sold with a clear conscience compared to the "lemon" he has now and invested that amount into a brand he desires).

Regards,

Rich

As I stated in an earlier post, if he has an opinion like my dad, he would have felt like BB was trying to screw him by asking for the extra $1,000. My dad would have felt like BB was trying to screw him even if they asked for an extra $50 for paperwork, that they were just trying to spite him.

We can all look at the deal that was posted and sit back and say "shoot, if the mower was that bad, I'd dump it in a heartbeat for $1,000".

In YardFarmer's mind, the $1,000 deal wasn't worth it.

topsites
07-02-2010, 02:10 AM
Do you know the meaning of the term "lemon"? If these mowers usually can take serious abuse without fail that proves the lemon factor all the more.

these statements you are making do not jive.

1. I could trash that mower and not hurt it a bit.

Perhaps it is you who doesn't speak jive, here's the translation:
1. I don't trash that mower, I don't hurt it a bit.

That is what "I could trash it and not hurt it a bit" means.
As in I could, but I DON'T!

Here's the thing too, I don't normally trash my mowers but accidents do happen...
Some years ago on a steep hill I flipped one of mine end over end, front over back just to make that clear,
I'll give that it never hit the ground while it was upside down, instead it kept turning and landed on all 4 tires,
spewed a big cloud of dust and grass...
And why you wouldn't believe it, not a darn thing wrong with it, not even a belt came off.
I was probably more shook up than the mower was, to be sure the machine doesn't have feelings but after
several minutes I got back on it and finished cutting the grass.

And I'm not saying that one should test a machine this way, but most commercial mowers made of 7 gauge steel
CAN take a POUNDING and keep on ticking.

topsites
07-02-2010, 02:22 AM
Dang, I got cut off...

But just because they CAN take a pounding doesn't mean we should subject them to it,
one wonders at some point if certain operators didn't per chance get a VERY GOOD
BB on the first one that they did abuse but it put up with it, as most mowers should,
the second one, however, did not.

That doesn't make it a lemon, just because it didn't react like a tank.

The question at this point is, are these the only two commercial grade machines you have owned?

YardFarmersLLC
07-02-2010, 07:42 AM
The question at this point is, are these the only two commercial grade machines you have owned?

Yes, I have owned another zero turn. My first mower was a highly used grasshopper 220 (I think). It was 20 hp kohler and like 52 inch cut. That mower had been abused before I bought it, and It being my first one, it took my first crashes, and all that. It never failed, although built much lighter. It is still running today no problem, in the hands of a friend I sold it to. I bought it for $2500, and it mowed beautifully. Still kicking myself for selling it.

And there is a principal here that I WAS NOT giving this company another $1000 dollars of my money. I had proven myself to be a dedicated customer, helping them sell several units until this one began to fail. I felt it was time for them to prove themselves as a company. They are not well known in many areas.

When first starting in this area, I had no reputation to ride on either. My dad owns a very upscale masonry business, and could have gotten me many jobs, but he told me I had to prove myself, get my own jobs, do my own work, fix my own mistakes, and that I would not ride on anyone's coat tails. I had to prove my work to people, and at age 18 took a contract with the city doing all of their mowing, landscaping, snow plowing, road sign work, fixing back septic lines, ect. At age 20, I now hold a key to the $100,000 CAT city backhoe, and the mayor knows he can count on me to be there at 2 AM to plow snow with my plow trucks and salt spreaders, or anytime there is a line break and city employees cannot make it in. I hold many big contracts and have proven myself reliable to many people, even on corporate levels. I took on a concrete project, all in doors tearing out an old floor, excavating out dirt, then putting in rock, and concrete. I lined up concrete pumps, ect and completed the project as the head contractor at age 18, without a single hitch the whole time. That was a $40,000 project all total.

My point is, as a less well known outfit, they need to work hard at proving themselves if they will ever be taken seriously.

rtharris
07-02-2010, 08:51 AM
Yes, I have owned another zero turn. My first mower was a highly used grasshopper 220 (I think). It was 20 hp kohler and like 52 inch cut. That mower had been abused before I bought it, and It being my first one, it took my first crashes, and all that. It never failed, although built much lighter. It is still running today no problem, in the hands of a friend I sold it to. I bought it for $2500, and it mowed beautifully. Still kicking myself for selling it.

And there is a principal here that I WAS NOT giving this company another $1000 dollars of my money. I had proven myself to be a dedicated customer, helping them sell several units until this one began to fail. I felt it was time for them to prove themselves as a company. They are not well known in many areas.

When first starting in this area, I had no reputation to ride on either. My dad owns a very upscale masonry business, and could have gotten me many jobs, but he told me I had to prove myself, get my own jobs, do my own work, fix my own mistakes, and that I would not ride on anyone's coat tails. I had to prove my work to people, and at age 18 took a contract with the city doing all of their mowing, landscaping, snow plowing, road sign work, fixing back septic lines, ect. At age 20, I now hold a key to the $100,000 CAT city backhoe, and the mayor knows he can count on me to be there at 2 AM to plow snow with my plow trucks and salt spreaders, or anytime there is a line break and city employees cannot make it in. I hold many big contracts and have proven myself reliable to many people, even on corporate levels. I took on a concrete project, all in doors tearing out an old floor, excavating out dirt, then putting in rock, and concrete. I lined up concrete pumps, ect and completed the project as the head contractor at age 18, without a single hitch the whole time. That was a $40,000 project all total.

My point is, as a less well known outfit, they need to work hard at proving themselves if they will ever be taken seriously.
Posted via Mobile Device

LwnmwrMan22
07-02-2010, 08:52 AM
Yes, I have owned another zero turn. My first mower was a highly used grasshopper 220 (I think). It was 20 hp kohler and like 52 inch cut. That mower had been abused before I bought it, and It being my first one, it took my first crashes, and all that. It never failed, although built much lighter. It is still running today no problem, in the hands of a friend I sold it to. I bought it for $2500, and it mowed beautifully. Still kicking myself for selling it.

And there is a principal here that I WAS NOT giving this company another $1000 dollars of my money. I had proven myself to be a dedicated customer, helping them sell several units until this one began to fail. I felt it was time for them to prove themselves as a company. They are not well known in many areas.

When first starting in this area, I had no reputation to ride on either. My dad owns a very upscale masonry business, and could have gotten me many jobs, but he told me I had to prove myself, get my own jobs, do my own work, fix my own mistakes, and that I would not ride on anyone's coat tails. I had to prove my work to people, and at age 18 took a contract with the city doing all of their mowing, landscaping, snow plowing, road sign work, fixing back septic lines, ect. At age 20, I now hold a key to the $100,000 CAT city backhoe, and the mayor knows he can count on me to be there at 2 AM to plow snow with my plow trucks and salt spreaders, or anytime there is a line break and city employees cannot make it in. I hold many big contracts and have proven myself reliable to many people, even on corporate levels. I took on a concrete project, all in doors tearing out an old floor, excavating out dirt, then putting in rock, and concrete. I lined up concrete pumps, ect and completed the project as the head contractor at age 18, without a single hitch the whole time. That was a $40,000 project all total.

My point is, as a less well known outfit, they need to work hard at proving themselves if they will ever be taken seriously.

YardFarmer -

I understand about the principal of the $1,000, trust me. My father would have been so pi$$ed about that, he would tell everyone how bad of a manufacturer Bad Boy is, even in the afterlife.

Here's something that you might have to look at though, and I don't have the numbers in front of me, so my post may or may not be off.

If BB agreed that 75% of the problems are their fault, what's the value of your mower AS IT STANDS, not when you purchased it. This would be as though you had a car and were trading it in, what's the current blue book value.

Say your mower is worth $9,000 as it stands. Again, using fictitious numbers, but hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from.

75% of their issue, or $7,200 worth. For the additional $1,000, you'd be at $8,200. Would the $8,200 be a good deal for the new mower they "owed" you?

Now, again, these are made up numbers, maybe you or someone else can help me understand the real numbers.

But, hopefully you see where BB was coming from, with putting a value on your mower and then working a deal that looks more than fain in their eyes.

I do also agree with your last statement.

They are a "fringe" company right now, just as Scorpion, Everride, Grasshopper, Woods, Encore, etc. However, depending on who's running the company, chances are they're not going to take a $7,000+ hit, especially in this economy.

As I said in an earlier post, chances are, that if they really are built as well as some want to say (I believe you get what you pay for) well then how can they be so cheap unless they have minimal profit margin.

If they're operating at a $1,000 profit margin, they'd have to sell 7 more mowers JUST to make up your mower. I'd have a hard time seeing them justify that.

br549oicu8
07-02-2010, 08:54 AM
Like I mentioned before, there is no way for all of us peers to know exactly what happened with your mower. It is purely speculation. It was also mentioned that you have been consistent with your version. I agre that it feels like you are being very truthful. I also understand and totally agree about principal. I had the same problem with Wright over 3 POS Sentars they sold me directly as demo's. They were HORRIBLE and did nothing but insult me with offers to buy them back to shut me up.
So to sum it all up, I feel for ya.
At his point just try to move on. You don't owe anyone on here an explanation. You brought it up, opinions were submitted, and as always, they will differ tremendously.
I'd close the subject and move on. Continuing will only bring you more frustration with no good end results.

rtharris
07-02-2010, 09:00 AM
so i guess a 20 yr old is single handedly going to make BB a well known company with their entitlement to you and as i asked earlier why arent u dealing with ur cousin the scag dealer who is much closer than the BB FACTORY
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br549oicu8
07-02-2010, 09:06 AM
so i guess a 20 yr old is single handedly going to make BB a well known company with their entitlement to you and as i asked earlier why arent u dealing with ur cousin the scag dealer who is much closer than the BB FACTORY
Posted via Mobile Device

It takes one, then two, then three.....
Every bit of bad publicity hurts the company,no matter how big or small the complaining party is. People in this area only know Bad Boy mowers as coming from the local Farm stores as a residential mower. We know better, and every single one seen out there being used by a Commercial Company helps them sell more, maybe many more units.
So don't scold the young man. He's standing by what he feels is the right thing to do.

rtharris
07-02-2010, 09:13 AM
so i guess a 20 yr old is single handedly going to make BB a well known company with their entitlement to you and as i asked earlier why arent u dealing with ur cousin the scag dealer who is much closer than the BB FACTORY
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

LwnmwrMan22
07-02-2010, 09:18 AM
so i guess a 20 yr old is single handedly going to make BB a well known company with their entitlement to you and as i asked earlier why arent u dealing with ur cousin the scag dealer who is much closer than the BB FACTORY
Posted via Mobile Device

He explained that in an earlier post.

He already had a BB mower from a dealer that was operating in his area.

Said dealer closed, but since he liked is first mower, without any problems, he pursued purchasing another Bad Boy, because he was sold on them from his first mower, with NO problems.

BTW, rtharris, you need to figure out what your doing with your smartphone, and quit posting a quote, then following it up with another quote of the same message, this time with your response.

Also, I know as soon as the rest of the BB apologists read the thread, they're going to jump all over that "I can / do all this even though I'm young" post.

rtharris
07-02-2010, 09:19 AM
You took a chance on a 125 hr demo mower and lost i wonder how many ops that mower had before u got it and every one of them trying to see what that diesel would take
Posted via Mobile Device

SNAPPER MAN
07-02-2010, 09:22 AM
Posted via Mobile Device

MS_SURVEYOR
07-02-2010, 10:12 AM
i did not say the turn buckles broke. Those things are tractor center links! I said the chain hangers that keep the deck level broke! Let me get some pics of the actual breaks up for you to survey sir.
posted via mobile device

lets see some close up detailed pictures of all the parts that broke, even after they were welded back into place, including where the deck hit allowing it to be bent.

Pictures Please!

mbrew
07-02-2010, 11:00 AM
I was trying to stay out of this, but I guess I just can't help myself. I admire what you seem to have accomplished at such a young age, but seeing how old you are answers many questions for me. In no way would I allow someone with your level of experience color my opinion of a company in a manner such as this - either for good or bad. There is no way that you have enough experience in working with employees, suppliers or equipment for your opinion to mean a great deal. I know that from your perspective those words sting and will bring an emotional response from you (most of your posts are from an emotional level), but speaking as someone who was once 20, is now 50 and knows now what I didn't know then, I can assure you that my opinion has some validity.

We can't make determinations about what went wrong with the engine, we don't have and never will have enough information to do so. In your explanation of the overheating problem you communicated to me that you have little to no experience in troubleshooting problems of that type.

Some of the other problems that you speak of, pictures would go along way in supporting your claims although I have been fooled by diagnosing problems from pictures before. The welds were either bad or the parts were broken by impact or fatigue. Fairly easy to ascertain with the broken part in your hand, but we don't have it in our hand.

You state that Bad Boy has to prove themselves, but the same applies to you. You waltzed in here, unknown to most, and made accusations against a company with no corroborating evidence. Many of us have seen the way these machines are built and have a difficult time believing that they could fail during routine operations as you describe. That doesn't mean that it isn't possible, but it does put the onus on you to prove your statements.

I don't know a lot about Bad Boy. They may be new in the market and their product may be unrefined in some ways, but they definitely build them stout and with serviceability in mind. You, I know nothing about. I don't know how you relate to your employees, how you supervise them, but from your age I know you don't have a great deal of experience at any of it.

For now, I'd still consider owning one.

mbrew
07-02-2010, 11:15 AM
Also, I know as soon as the rest of the BB apologists read the thread, they're going to jump all over that "I can / do all this even though I'm young" post.

Well I guess I took the bait. I can hardly be accused of being an apologist for Bad boy though as I'm a prospective owner and nothing more. I'm a prospective owner of nearly any brand out there for that matter.

I do know this; I just came out of an career where 20 somethings had a whole lot more responsibility, training and skin in the game than this young man does and although I would listen to their opinion when time was available, it was a factor in my decisions only in non critical issues.

Just so you don't have to ask, I supervised military aircraft maintenance.

LwnmwrMan22
07-02-2010, 11:37 AM
Well I guess I took the bait. I can hardly be accused of being an apologist for Bad boy though as I'm a prospective owner and nothing more. I'm a prospective owner of nearly any brand out there for that matter.

I do know this; I just came out of an career where 20 somethings had a whole lot more responsibility, training and skin in the game than this young man does and although I would listen to their opinion when time was available, it was a factor in my decisions only in non critical issues.

Just so you don't have to ask, I supervised military aircraft maintenance.

mbrew -

Your post was correct. There have been issues that I didn't quite understand, but when the age thing came out it made the situations clearer.

I bet YardFarmer will realize what a good deal the $1,000 + his busted mower was, and if there's a next time, will jump on it.

It's just something that people will learn, we all have situations that when we look back, end up kicking ourselves, or at least second guessing.

I'm just talking about the others that swear nothing will break a BB mower, yet blame YardFarmer for trashing his BB mower.

rtharris
07-02-2010, 12:04 PM
He explained that in an earlier post.

He already had a BB mower from a dealer that was operating in his area.

Said dealer closed, but since he liked is first mower, without any problems, he pursued purchasing another Bad Boy, because he was sold on them from his first mower, with NO problems.

BTW, rtharris, you need to figure out what your doing with your smartphone, and quit posting a quote, then following it up with another quote of the same message, this time with your response.

Also, I know as soon as the rest of the BB apologists read the thread, they're going to jump all over that "I can / do all this even though I'm young" post.
Posted via Mobile Device

rtharris
07-02-2010, 12:11 PM
Lwnmwerman22 sry for the posting problems but when I grew up we played outside not on computers or smartphones so as u can see im still learning
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
07-02-2010, 02:09 PM
Let's explain another scenario to a story of this type. I have a suspension seat on my Super Z that a weld broke inside (never seen or heard of this, but yes it did happen) it would lean down on one side and had no adjustable suspension capability. I had made up my mind if there was nothing that could be done I was going to buy a new suspension seat. I forgot to mention this, but the mower had 650 hrs. on it when this happened and that makes a huge difference.

I talked with my dealer (which there in none better), and he told me he had suspension seats in stock, and I could have one at his cost, (already a good deal in place). His mechanic called me and said, "Reid, there is a weld broken in your seat and another one cracked on the other side." He told me they believed it could be repaired to be as good as new, (they know I will put a new seat on if there is any question.)

This is where I believed Hustler and the Michigan seat company was going way above the call of duty. I had personally talked with Hustler earlier on before we knew the problem, after I found out what actually caused the problem, I got the number of the Michigan seat company and called them.

This part truly blew my mind, the Michigan seat company believes in the product 100%, the reason I say this is because the gentleman told me immediately that they would send my dealer a new seat at no charge with the only stipulation being they wanted the old seat back untouched. I immediately called my dealer and talked with the mechanic which I personally know. The first thing he said was, " I fixed your seat back as good as new and Hustler is taking care of the bill," can you believe this, a mower company repairing a seat with 650 hrs. on their mower at no charge to me. This is what I consider customer service that is unsurpassed by any company, (not just a mower company).

I then called the gentleman at the Michigan seat company and told him how impressed I was, by the way I was treated, and that I could truly tell they were interested in having the best suspension seat on the market. I told him I would have loved to replace the seat with a new one but the old one had been repaired. He told me he would have liked their engineers to find what caused the failure, I said I believe it was the welds causing the problem, and I certainly appreciated their interest.

This tells me there are companies willing to get their failed products back into their manufacturing facility in an attempt to find the cause of a failure. This can actually save them money in the long run if they are able to prevent the problem from reoccurring, just good business sense!

RDA
07-02-2010, 02:27 PM
(snipped)
This tells me there are companies willing to get their failed products back into their manufacturing facility in an attempt to find the cause of a failure. This can actually save them money in the long run if they are able to prevent the problem from reoccurring, just good business sense!

This is a great story and two great examples of a company going the extra mile. It also sounds like you could not have handled it any better, went in being honest and forthright about the situation and you were willing to work through the issue without great expectations (i.e., cautiously optimistic you could work something out favorably but willing to bend). This is how I try to approach situations, as my wife likes to remind me, 'you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar'.

I had an issue recently with my Quick 36 (BOP). I believe the issue was a shortcoming of the original design. It should be noted, I didn't buy the mower new, I bought it used from one of their representatives with only ~100 hours and it was no longer under any type of warranty at the point the issue arose. When I brought the issue to BOP's attention, they acknowledged there was a bit of a shortcoming in the older generation mower and that new ones had a better situation. I wanted to upgrade my mower to the specs of the new mower and they agreed it was possible and quoted me retail price for the parts. I simply stated that I was hoping to get some break on the cost of the parts and BOP took it under consideration and proposed the parts at a price less than retail that was more than acceptable to me (again, the mower was not under warranty nor did I buy it new). I am happy with how BOP handled it, I felt it was reasonable and both sides accommodated each other. I got my parts, I installed them and I am happy to say that the mower no longer has an issue.

Regards,

Rich

LwnmwrMan22
07-02-2010, 02:30 PM
Let's explain another scenario to a story of this type. I have a suspension seat on my Super Z that a weld broke inside (never seen or heard of this, but yes it did happen) it would lean down on one side and had no adjustable suspension capability. I had made up my mind if there was nothing that could be done I was going to buy a new suspension seat. I forgot to mention this, but the mower had 650 hrs. on it when this happened and that makes a huge difference.

I talked with my dealer (which there in none better), and he told me he had suspension seats in stock, and I could have one at his cost, (already a good deal in place). His mechanic called me and said, "Reid, there is a weld broken in your seat and another one cracked on the other side." He told me they believed it could be repaired to be as good as new, (they know I will put a new seat on if there is any question.)

This is where I believed Hustler and the Michigan seat company was going way above the call of duty. I had personally talked with Hustler earlier on before we knew the problem, after I found out what actually caused the problem, I got the number of the Michigan seat company and called them.

This part truly blew my mind, the Michigan seat company believes in the product 100%, the reason I say this is because the gentleman told me immediately that they would send my dealer a new seat at no charge with the only stipulation being they wanted the old seat back untouched. I immediately called my dealer and talked with the mechanic which I personally know. The first thing he said was, " I fixed your seat back as good as new and Hustler is taking care of the bill," can you believe this, a mower company repairing a seat with 650 hrs. on their mower at no charge to me. This is what I consider customer service that is unsurpassed by any company, (not just a mower company).

I then called the gentleman at the Michigan seat company and told him how impressed I was, by the way I was treated, and that I could truly tell they were interested in having the best suspension seat on the market. I told him I would have loved to replace the seat with a new one but the old one had been repaired. He told me he would have liked their engineers to find what caused the failure, I said I believe it was the welds causing the problem, and I certainly appreciated their interest.

This tells me there are companies willing to get their failed products back into their manufacturing facility in an attempt to find the cause of a failure. This can actually save them money in the long run if they are able to prevent the problem from reoccurring, just good business sense!

Good story. However, replacing a $500 suspension seat is a bit different than completely replacing a $10,000 mower.

I've had the same "luck" with Kubota. We've had stuff break that was completely operator error. My dealer will always turn it in under warranty. Most of the time Kubota fixes it under warranty. Sometimes they don't.

I've had blade spindles fail at 100 hours. My '07 Kubota ZD331 went through 3 radiators in the first 40 hours. Turns out motor mounts were bad.

I've never priced a BB mower. I'd still like to know if my numbers from my post this morning were in line or not???

RDA
07-02-2010, 02:43 PM
Good story. However, replacing a $500 suspension seat is a bit different than completely replacing a $10,000 mower.

I've had the same "luck" with Kubota. We've had stuff break that was completely operator error. My dealer will always turn it in under warranty. Most of the time Kubota fixes it under warranty. Sometimes they don't.

I wouldn't consider this the same "luck". It doesn't sound like the seat failure was due to operator error, it sounds like it was fatigue and potentially a bad weld.

Agreed on it being different from the perspective of a $500 seat versus a $10,000 mower, that is part of the issue with this whole thread though.

I've had blade spindles fail at 100 hours. My '07 Kubota ZD331 went through 3 radiators in the first 40 hours. Turns out motor mounts were bad.

I've never priced a BB mower. I'd still like to know if my numbers from my post this morning were in line or not???

I believe it is based on some of the posts in this thread from the OP.

Regards,

Rich

puppypaws
07-02-2010, 03:32 PM
Good story. However, replacing a $500 suspension seat is a bit different than completely replacing a $10,000 mower.

I've had the same "luck" with Kubota. We've had stuff break that was completely operator error. My dealer will always turn it in under warranty. Most of the time Kubota fixes it under warranty. Sometimes they don't.

I've had blade spindles fail at 100 hours. My '07 Kubota ZD331 went through 3 radiators in the first 40 hours. Turns out motor mounts were bad.

I've never priced a BB mower. I'd still like to know if my numbers from my post this morning were in line or not???

The statement you made above is correct, but I would be willing to bet if the same thing happened with a Kubota you own, your dealer is not going to turn the problem in under warranty knowing it is a 4 year old mower with 650 hrs. on the meter, (he would not want them to think he was an idiot). I can also tell you Kubota is not going to repair at their cost an item that came from an outside vendor, they will tell you to contact that particular parts manufacturer. Will you agree with this statement, or are you going to say Kubota would have handled my situation the same as Hustler, not only do I not think so.....I know so!

Now, on to a $10,000.00 mower, such as you made reference. I bought a new Hustler Super Z, 60" deck with a 25 hp Kawasaki. The paint started popping off the mower in small pieces, my dealer and I started working with Hustler on a resolution to the problem. I made Hustler aware I was not going to have a new, top of the line mower with the paint coming off. They at first starting talking about repainting the entire mower (Hustler was about to finish a new powder coating paint facility). I agreed to letting this take place while thinking this was not a good business decision on their part. I used the mower for 125 hrs., mower was great, just a paint problem. They came out with a new Super Z; offering a 27 hp Kohler engine for the first time (the largest hp engine ever installed on a Super Z). My dealer called and told me Hustler had authorized him to replace my mower with a brand new, next year newer model, and a 2 hp larger engine for nothing but the cost difference between the 25 Kawi and the 27 Kohler.

I used a new Hustler Super Z for 125 hrs., had it replaced with a next year newer model, 2 more hp engine mower that had been power coated in their new paint facility. This deal took place and cost me a total of $400.00, stop and think about this for a moment, you will lose in the first year a thousand dollars on depreciation alone. I actually got a more expensive mower with a state of the art powder coated paint finish for no money; because I used up $400.00 of the original mower for my own use in the 125 hrs.

Tell me if you think there is a snow ball chance in h*ll Kubota would have made this deal with you, give me your honest opinion? Remember I have dealt with Kubota on other machinery (not zero turn mowers), and all I saw was a company that believed there was nothing on the market that compared with any equipment they build. I like Kubota, and believe they make the best small diesel engine in the industry, but if you ever need parts, they price them as if there is nothing comparable, and if you want them, you will pay their outrageous price.....been there.....done that!!!

I have dealt with many companies in my life of 61 years, and believe I can say that Hustler's customer support (at least for me), is as good, (I think better) than any in the country.

LwnmwrMan22
07-02-2010, 03:57 PM
Actually, if you go back to the ZD28's and ZD21's from Kubota, back to the early 2000's, they had a bad transmission setup.

They WOULD take mowers that were out of warranty, replace the transmissions and give an additional 2 year warranty on the new upgrade.

Now with that said, Kubota is a bit bigger company than BB and could absorb the cost.\ a bit easier.

Do a search on here, the threads will come up.

I agree with your post about Hustler. They're not big in my market, at least nothing bigger than Fastraks, so it's another mower I haven't been on personally.

I do agree with your opinion on Kubota parts as well. I'll be leaning back towards Toro when I purchase the next one.

puppypaws
07-02-2010, 04:07 PM
Actually, if you go back to the ZD28's and ZD21's from Kubota, back to the early 2000's, they had a bad transmission setup.

They WOULD take mowers that were out of warranty, replace the transmissions and give an additional 2 year warranty on the new upgrade.

Now with that said, Kubota is a bit bigger company than BB and could absorb the cost.\ a bit easier.

Do a search on here, the threads will come up.

I agree with your post about Hustler. They're not big in my market, at least nothing bigger than Fastraks, so it's another mower I haven't been on personally.

Kubota knew it was common knowledge they had a bad design, and it would be much better for them money wise (possible lawsuits they knew would be lost). They also realized for the future of their zero turn mower business, they needed to resolve this problem as fast as possible, with a little icing (extra warranty) on the cake for public relations. This is very smart business sense on the part of Kubota, but then again, they did not get where they are from lack of business sense.

LwnmwrMan22
07-02-2010, 04:27 PM
Kubota knew it was common knowledge they had a bad design, and it would be much better for them money wise (possible lawsuits they knew would be lost). They also realized for the future of their zero turn mower business, they needed to resolve this problem as fast as possible, with a little icing (extra warranty) on the cake for public relations. This is very smart business sense on the part of Kubota, but then again, they did not get where they are from lack of business sense.

Right, and being the size of company they are / were, they were in a better position to absorb costs associated with these repairs.

Your Hustler mower situation is right in line with what BB offered YardFarmer, especially with the state of the economy now, as it was when you had your issues.

I appreciate the discussion on this thread everyone. It's nice to see threads like this occasionally with all of the "what's the best mower / trimmer" threads.

I've finished up the mowing for the day, the boat is sitting in front of me, the parade in the morning.

Everyone have a safe and happy 4th!!!! :usflag::usflag::usflag:

YardFarmersLLC
07-02-2010, 04:31 PM
Here are pics of the damage. The spindle pic is of one from when the first one broke, and I took both apart to examine. it shows where they broke.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/photo-2.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/photo-1.jpg


And PLEASE explain to me how good materials that are supposed to be heavy gauge are so thin. When this broke at the weld, the mig welder had to be turned all the way down to weld this, because it was instantly popping holes through the pipe. I learned this today talking to the machinist that fixed it.

[And by pipe I mean the square tubing frame]

puppypaws
07-02-2010, 06:34 PM
Here are pics of the damage. The spindle pic is of one from when the first one broke, and I took both apart to examine. it shows where they broke.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/photo-2.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/photo-1.jpg


And PLEASE explain to me how good materials that are supposed to be heavy gauge are so thin. When this broke at the weld, the mig welder had to be turned all the way down to weld this, because it was instantly popping holes through the pipe. I learned this today talking to the machinist that fixed it.

[And by pipe I mean the square tubing frame]

I have no idea how this took place, but those places cannot be broken without severe pressure or a shocking blow taking place, and I would hate to think I had to be the one in the seat when it happened. I would take a BB mower and get what someone says to be their roughest equipment operator and tell them I will pay big money to see them go out into any mowing situation, and while driving the mower break a spindle shaft or spindle housing off the frame.

nepatsfan
07-02-2010, 06:52 PM
that is disgusting. I would take the deal they offered and sell the new one right away and buy a decent brand name mower.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-02-2010, 06:54 PM
Here are pics of the damage. The spindle pic is of one from when the first one broke, and I took both apart to examine. it shows where they broke.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/photo-2.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/photo-1.jpg


And PLEASE explain to me how good materials that are supposed to be heavy gauge are so thin. When this broke at the weld, the mig welder had to be turned all the way down to weld this, because it was instantly popping holes through the pipe. I learned this today talking to the machinist that fixed it.

[And by pipe I mean the square tubing frame]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

That's some funny chit brother!!! :laugh:

That mower looks like it's 15 years old!!! :laugh:

I'm trying to figure where you're going with this, because I don't believe a darn word you're saying! :nono:

jomeokee
07-02-2010, 08:20 PM
The discussion of how Kubota and Hustler work with their customers is interesting and to me keeps their buyers coming back for more product. I operate/own Kubota equipment and have had excellent results with Kubota over the years.

I have followed this thread from start and if memory serves me well the BB rep "lawnsnake" has replied only a few times? This puzzles me somewhat.

With 8,000+ views this thread is getting plenty of "air-time".

BB know's alot more about marketing than I can claim to but the companies I have mentioned have been at it much longer too.

There has been talk about the dollars involved required to satisfy a customer versus the lingering bad memories a potential customer may have from a thread such as this one we're participating in.

I'm assuming BB has stated their case and moved on?

Tom

MS_SURVEYOR
07-02-2010, 09:26 PM
The discussion of how Kubota and Hustler work with their customers is interesting and to me keeps their buyers coming back for more product. I operate/own Kubota equipment and have had excellent results with Kubota over the years.

I have followed this thread from start and if memory serves me well the BB rep "lawnsnake" has replied only a few times? This puzzles me somewhat.

With 8,000+ views this thread is getting plenty of "air-time".

BB know's alot more about marketing than I can claim to but the companies I have mentioned have been at it much longer too.

There has been talk about the dollars involved required to satisfy a customer versus the lingering bad memories a potential customer may have from a thread such as this one we're participating in.

I'm assuming BB has stated their case and moved on?

Tom

Have you looked at the pictures? Do you really think Bad Boy builds a mower that looks like that after a years worth of use? Do you really think Bad Boy would sell a trashed out demo for more money than the dealers sell them new off the show room floor?

I've dealt with Bad Boy one on one about my mower. I had a rubber discharge chute that tore from normal use. I called Bad Boy and got, "We at Bad Boy are sorry for this." The next morning I had a new discharge chute at my door. I got a phone call the day after that asking if everything was alright. My hour meter malfunctioned. I call Bad Boy. I had a new hour meter at my door the very next morning. Anytime I have a question about my mower I can give Bad Boy a call and get an answer. Sure that's been little things. But it means a lot to me being able to get in touch with a real person and get results. I just dropped my Pup at the Bad Boy dealer today to get my 50 hour service. Why? Because I have 1 year of warranty left on my mower and Kohler engine left. The service manager treated my like a friend. I asked about some engine testing and extra service while they had my mower. NO CHARGE FOR THE EXTRAS! I'll be ready in the morning. While I was there I looked around a the few Bad Boy mowers in for service. They all looked in very good shape. I asked the service manager what was the most common problems Bad Boy mowers had coming in. Routine Service. Oil and hydraulic oil changes, blade sharpening, tire changes, nothing major. we don't have problems with these mowers. I told him about this situation! He looked at me, his eyes got wide opened, he looked away, he looked back at me and said with a smile, Bull Chit! I wonder what happened because we couldn't make that happen. As I was washing my mower yesterday I was looking at every part of it, and marveled how over built and simple it was. Then after seeing those pictures today it made me think. If I were just mowing along on my rough piece of property cutting down bad azz Bahia Grass, and that front caster wheel just happened to fold over, there would be no way in hell I'd be getting some one to weld it back together. I'd be on the phone with Bad Boy right there. And I know Bad Boy would be in touch with my dealer, or have a Bad Boy rep out there looking at what went wrong. I told ya'll then, and I'm tell you now, Bad Boy builds a solid mower, and they back it up. They would want to know what went wrong, because those kind of failures don't happen.

The boy needs to fess up with what really happened!

nepatsfan
07-02-2010, 09:42 PM
Have you looked at the pictures? Do you really think Bad Boy builds a mower that looks like that after a years worth of use? Do you really think Bad Boy would sell a trashed out demo for more money than the dealers sell them new off the show room floor?

I've dealt with Bad Boy one on one about my mower. I had a rubber discharge chute that tore from normal use. I called Bad Boy and got, "We at Bad Boy are sorry for this." The next morning I had a new discharge chute at my door. I got a phone call the day after that asking if everything was alright. My hour meter malfunctioned. I call Bad Boy. I had a new hour meter at my door the very next morning. Anytime I have a question about my mower I can give Bad Boy a call and get an answer. Sure that's been little things. But it means a lot to me being able to get in touch with a real person and get results. I just dropped my Pup at the Bad Boy dealer today to get my 50 hour service. Why? Because I have 1 year of warranty left on my mower and Kohler engine left. The service manager treated my like a friend. I asked about some engine testing and extra service while they had my mower. NO CHARGE FOR THE EXTRAS! I'll be ready in the morning. While I was there I looked around a the few Bad Boy mowers in for service. They all looked in very good shape. I asked the service manager what was the most common problems Bad Boy mowers had coming in. Routine Service. Oil and hydraulic oil changes, blade sharpening, tire changes, nothing major. we don't have problems with these mowers. I told him about this situation! He looked at me, his eyes got wide opened, he looked away, he looked back at me and said with a smile, Bull Chit! I wonder what happened because we couldn't make that happen. As I was washing my mower yesterday I was looking at every part of it, and marveled how over built and simple it was. Then after seeing those pictures today it made me think. If I were just mowing along on my rough piece of property cutting down bad azz Bahia Grass, and that front caster wheel just happened to fold over, there would be no way in hell I'd be getting some one to weld it back together. I'd be on the phone with Bad Boy right there. And I know Bad Boy would be in touch with my dealer, or have a Bad Boy rep out there looking at what went wrong. I told ya'll then, and I'm tell you now, Bad Boy builds a solid mower, and they back it up. They would want to know what went wrong, because those kind of failures don't happen.

The boy needs to fess up with what really happened!
Not sure about your love affair with bad boy. I really dont care I have never run one. Most of the positive experience you speak of is from your dealer, not bad boy. Forgive me if this is presumptuous but I would assume that you just mow your own yard. Your mower I am sure will be fine to mow your own yard. When something on one of my mower breaks I am trying to get the thing back in service asap. He said he doesnt have a BB dealer nearby, 550 miles or something. I would be willing to bet thats why he has it welded. If your experience with BB is just mowing your own lawn, I am not sure it applies to commercial cutting.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-02-2010, 10:20 PM
Not sure about your love affair with bad boy. I really dont care I have never run one. Most of the positive experience you speak of is from your dealer, not bad boy. Forgive me if this is presumptuous but I would assume that you just mow your own yard. Your mower I am sure will be fine to mow your own yard. When something on one of my mower breaks I am trying to get the thing back in service asap. He said he doesnt have a BB dealer nearby, 550 miles or something. I would be willing to bet thats why he has it welded. If your experience with BB is just mowing your own lawn, I am not sure it applies to commercial cutting.

Bad Boy Dealers near Somerset Kentucky

Valley Farm Equipment, Inc.
606-423-3421 15.96 mi

Hobdy, Dye and Read
270-384-4032 41.71 mi http://www.hdrtractors.com/

Valley Farm Equipment of Nicholasville, Inc.
859-885-1879 51.93 mi

Montgomery Tractor Sales
859-498-0342 74.49 mi

Mayo Garden Center
865-938-1010 77.15 mi

Southern Landscape Supply
931-520-7097 80.84 mi

Mayo Garden Center
865-691-1230 84.33 mi

Mayo Garden Center
865-588-1351 84.43 m

Taul Equipment Inc.
270-862-4670 86.77 mi

Hobdy, Dye and Read
Ph 270-622-5105
Fx 270-622-6728 94.90 mi

You got me there brother! You're right! I'm just a lolly home mower mowing 5 demanding acres of rough land of fast growing Bahia Grass every 5 days making that mower moan for it's very life in the hot southern sun. :cry:

But my mower is up to the task!! :drinkup:

Seems like I'm up to it too! :waving:

YardFarmersLLC
07-02-2010, 11:25 PM
Bad Boy Dealers near Somerset Kentucky

Valley Farm Equipment, Inc.
606-423-3421 15.96 mi

Hobdy, Dye and Read
270-384-4032 41.71 mi http://www.hdrtractors.com/

Valley Farm Equipment of Nicholasville, Inc.
859-885-1879 51.93 mi

Montgomery Tractor Sales
859-498-0342 74.49 mi

Mayo Garden Center
865-938-1010 77.15 mi

Southern Landscape Supply
931-520-7097 80.84 mi

Mayo Garden Center
865-691-1230 84.33 mi

Mayo Garden Center
865-588-1351 84.43 m

Taul Equipment Inc.
270-862-4670 86.77 mi

Hobdy, Dye and Read
Ph 270-622-5105
Fx 270-622-6728 94.90 mi

You got me there brother! You're right! I'm just a lolly home mower mowing 5 demanding acres of rough land of fast growing Bahia Grass every 5 days making that mower moan for it's very life in the hot southern sun. :cry:

But my mower is up to the task!! :drinkup:

Seems like I'm up to it too! :waving:

Ah yes, and both of the Valley locations began dealing in them since I purchased this unit. Good job detective.:drinkup:

And why do I not haul it eighty miles to a dealer? Because I needed it mowing right now, not next week. So therefore, I fix it, and it is rolling again by the next morning.

Have you ever welded? It is a terrible sound to hear your "TANK" frame make that annoying POP sound because your 120 Mig just burned a hole through the frame that LOOKS so tough.

And by the way, I seriously laughed out loud when I read about the five acres of demanding grass. I'm not trying to knock you, but you have been knocking me the whole way through this, and I just realized you are still in your honeymoon phase with your new Bad Boy. 50 hours? Really? And 5 acres?? Come on dude. We had a 12 acre Apartment complex full of fussy old ladies and a seven acre Church mowed before lunch. Mowed, trimmed, blowed.

And here's a freebie when it comes to customer service: At the retiree apartments today, I made a mistake (can BB own up to that? Let's say it together, I MADE A MISTAKE). I blew grass on an lady's car. I tried to keep it off of her, and as I whipped it around, some got on her hood. We know what grass does on clear coat. It looks like crap. I promptly weeded her flower bed, and handed her a $20 bill so that she could stop by the local full service car wash, where for $15 they quick detailed her car, including the interior. What did I owe her? Washing the front bumper. What did she get? a full wash inside and out, and her flower beds weeded for free. And she don't even write my checks. Am I tooting my own horn? No. Just saying sometimes you need to go the extra mile. I preach it on here, I live it out there.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-02-2010, 11:30 PM
I can handle the truth. Tell me what really happened. You'll feel a whole lot better.

YardFarmersLLC
07-02-2010, 11:47 PM
What really happened? I'll tell ya. We cut grass when the thing wasn't broke down. Here's one for ya! The BB guys couldn't believe how many blades I go through! In three seasons I have bought ONE SET! The diesel still has the new set that were on it when I bought it. The gas has had one set. They are in great shape, sharpened lightly almost weekly. Does that sound like a machine that has been roughed up? Dragged over curbs? Ran over rocks? Dropped off trailers? Ran over limbs? Mowed over sidewalks? Get your head out of your rear end please.

YardFarmersLLC
07-03-2010, 12:11 AM
And by the way, If I want to mow mountains, and over grown stuff, and gulleys, and extremely rough stuff, I will put an Ambusher on the front of this:
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/121.jpg

or my nine foot bush hog on the back of these:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/loads/media1-12.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/loads/media1-6.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/loads/media1-30.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/loads/mytruckloaded285.jpg

My point? I have the stuff to do the rough places with, no need to use the mowers I use on nice properties.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-03-2010, 12:12 AM
I'm beginning to think you don't know what happened because you weren't there.

God Bless You!

ms

retrodog
07-03-2010, 01:08 AM
Hold everything, you said you bought it in 2008 as a demo? I have been a dealer for BB since they fixed my mower in 2006, and have never seen that design. How old is that mower? I assume that when they said the engine wasn't under waranty that meant that the 2 year warranty that cat offers was already out since the mower was put into use, BB had to pull strings to get your engine covered (engine warranty with cat starts when a demo is put into service). That thing looks like a dinasaur. I am not trying to dis you, but the factory offered you a brand new gas unit that has been bullet proof for you for 4 years and you love for $1000 difference over a mower that is a complete POS for you and has 500 hours (which could have well been alot more than that as I don't trust hour meters I have seen to many that the wire came loose on or that went out and had to be replaced). My mind can't comprehend you not taking the deal.... unless you just thought by continued ranting on a public internet site that BB would just give you a new diesel for free. Dude you paid $8500 for that old designed mower, and the factory offered you a $8000 mower brand new for $1000 and your POS? I will honestly say that if the mower was as bad as you say it is, I would have traded and paid $5000 for a new one. What did you expect them to do as a factory? They are one of the few that will actually talk to you on the phone, and you talked to the owner of the company....lol. Your expectations were set high due to the other stories like mine where there are no out of pocket. I honestly believe if your mower was a newer one and you had these issues you would have got a swap for nothing, but yours is a completely old design all the way around. As far as issues with a mower, I would fully expect things to break on it over a 5 to 7 year period, to say nothing should break is unreasonable. You guys that are dissing BB just by reading this post is crazy, they waaaay went above and beyond on the offer, that is crazy... Go buy a Deere and get charged $26 for a deck roller wheel....lol. I just can't believe the factory was calling that a demo and offering any kind of warranty on it in 2008, your Lightning was bought 2 years before and was Alot newer of a design than that diesel. The fact that you have nearly 400 hours on a set of blades bothers me a little, I can't get more than 40 hours out of a set.... I will bet they leave a pretty poor cut on your yards with that much use and no replacing....

topsites
07-03-2010, 01:49 AM
And by the way, If I want to mow mountains, and over grown stuff, and gulleys,
and extremely rough stuff, I will put an Ambusher on the front of this:
or my nine foot bush hog on the back of these:

You know what I call that?
Back when I was in the Navy we used to call that "pulling rank."

I've had customers do this to me before, recently matter of fact.
It's usually when they feel they have been wronged, but the truth of it
is that they do it in order to TRY and get their way.

Speaking as a business owner I have little appreciation for it, I may not see it coming right away
but I can assure you that in the long run the rank pulling tactic will backfire.
As someone said you are young, and when I was young I used to think I could just pull rank and get it over with,
but over the years I learned that it might work here and then but it's not something that someone should have to do
if they are in the right to begin with.

As in...
I shouldn't have to pull the Ace of Spades out of my back pocket
because I want to trump this argument, you see?

Perhaps in desperation folks resort to this tactic, but it did destroy what little confidence
I had that somehow what happened was truly ALL (or at least mostly) BB's fault.

Now...
I think most anyone reading through this thread can see we've probably about come to the bottom of it,
I personally have already said it and I'll say it again, much as several other folks here have said:
Apparently MOST of us would have TOOK the gasser +$1g in exchange for the beat up BB diesel.

Truth be known they would have lost money just to keep you happy.

And that truly is ALL that anyone should expect out of a company that's been put or finds
themselves in this predicament with a customer.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-03-2010, 01:55 AM
Hold everything, you said you bought it in 2008 as a demo? I have been a dealer for BB since they fixed my mower in 2006, and have never seen that design. How old is that mower? I assume that when they said the engine wasn't under waranty that meant that the 2 year warranty that cat offers was already out since the mower was put into use, BB had to pull strings to get your engine covered (engine warranty with cat starts when a demo is put into service). That thing looks like a dinasaur. I am not trying to dis you, but the factory offered you a brand new gas unit that has been bullet proof for you for 4 years and you love for $1000 difference over a mower that is a complete POS for you and has 500 hours (which could have well been alot more than that as I don't trust hour meters I have seen to many that the wire came loose on or that went out and had to be replaced). My mind can't comprehend you not taking the deal.... unless you just thought by continued ranting on a public internet site that BB would just give you a new diesel for free. Dude you paid $8500 for that old designed mower, and the factory offered you a $8000 mower brand new for $1000 and your POS? I will honestly say that if the mower was as bad as you say it is, I would have traded and paid $5000 for a new one. What did you expect them to do as a factory? They are one of the few that will actually talk to you on the phone, and you talked to the owner of the company....lol. Your expectations were set high due to the other stories like mine where there are no out of pocket. I honestly believe if your mower was a newer one and you had these issues you would have got a swap for nothing, but yours is a completely old design all the way around. As far as issues with a mower, I would fully expect things to break on it over a 5 to 7 year period, to say nothing should break is unreasonable. You guys that are dissing BB just by reading this post is crazy, they waaaay went above and beyond on the offer, that is crazy... Go buy a Deere and get charged $26 for a deck roller wheel....lol. I just can't believe the factory was calling that a demo and offering any kind of warranty on it in 2008, your Lightning was bought 2 years before and was Alot newer of a design than that diesel. The fact that you have nearly 400 hours on a set of blades bothers me a little, I can't get more than 40 hours out of a set.... I will bet they leave a pretty poor cut on your yards with that much use and no replacing....

:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

MS_SURVEYOR
07-03-2010, 02:30 AM
You know what I call that?
Back when I was in the Navy we used to call that "pulling rank."

I've had customers do this to me before, recently matter of fact.
It's usually when they feel they have been wronged, but the truth of it
is that they do it in order to TRY and get their way.

Speaking as a business owner, the rank pulling tactic will backfire,
it might work here and then but it's not something that someone
should have to do if they are in the right to begin with.

As in...
You shouldn't have to pull the Ace of Spades out of your back pocket
because you want to trump this argument, you see?

Perhaps in your desperation you resorted to this tactic, but it did destroy
what little confidence I had that somehow what happened was truly ALL BB's fault.

Now...
I think most anyone reading through this thread can see we've probably about come to the bottom of it,
I personally have already said it and I'll say it again, much as several other folks here have said:
Apparently MOST of us would have TOOK the gasser +$1g in exchange for the beat up BB diesel.

Truth be known they would have lost money just to keep you happy.

And that truly is ALL that anyone should expect out of a company that's been put or finds
themselves in this predicament with a customer.

I'm out of here with this one!

Good Luck To Ya!

MS_SURVEYOR

Hawg City Lawns
07-03-2010, 09:20 AM
i thought this was a bad boy thread but last page turned into look at all the things i have thread

hackitdown
07-03-2010, 09:36 AM
Maybe I don't get something here, but it looks like a pretty easy decision.

Option 1: Take the deal that BadBoy offered, pay $1000 and get a nice new mower. Bottom line...pay $1K, get new mower.

Option 2: Refuse the deal. Sell the used POS diesel (complete with crappy welds and bent deck) for $5K (if you get lucky), then buy some other nice new mower for $9K. Bottom line...Pay $4K plus tax, get new mower.

Option 3: Keep the POS mower and continue endless complaining.

Which is the best business decision?

puppypaws
07-03-2010, 10:33 AM
And by the way, If I want to mow mountains, and over grown stuff, and gulleys, and extremely rough stuff, I will put an Ambusher on the front of this:
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/121.jpg

or my nine foot bush hog on the back of these:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/loads/media1-12.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/loads/media1-6.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/loads/media1-30.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff12/2strokeman/loads/mytruckloaded285.jpg

My point? I have the stuff to do the rough places with, no need to use the mowers I use on nice properties.

I will say I like your old MF and Case tractors, but you need to stop and think what these people are reading and thinking from your post. People that run commercial mowers day in and day out, and have so for many years, with one being a BB dealer.

The fact that you have nearly 400 hours on a set of blades bothers me a little, I can't get more than 40 hours out of a set.... I will bet they leave a pretty poor cut on your yards with that much use and no replacing....

Now to put this into a better perspective, I have been running fusion blades (come standard on BB and Hustler mowers) ever since Oregon started making them for Hustler. I have run them 50+ hrs. before sharpening (which is a very long time on a mower blade). The part that wears out from normal use is the sail (turned up back part of the blade), and the sail cannot come close to lasting 400 hrs. Just to give you an idea, in this picture is a set of fusion blades that were hand sharpened once, and had approximately 85 to 90 hrs. use, they will not cut as good for as long a period of time after hand sharpening in comparison to a new blade.

You can look at this and see why anyone that knows anything about mower blades would find it unbelievable for someone to say they are cutting grass with blades that have 400 hrs. on them.

Look at the sails on these blades with less than 100 hrs. use, they have become much shorter in height; along with becoming much thinner, thinner to the point of allowing them to tear and bend. Now, after looking at these pictures and seeing proof with your own eyes of what fusion blades (which are treated for longevity, by tempering the metal) look like with less than 100 hrs. use, what are people suppose to think of your statement of running the same blade 400 hrs.?

Please tell me what you think people would believe, just your honest opinion?

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150733&stc=1&d=1244489247

topsites
07-03-2010, 10:49 AM
Please tell me what you think people would believe, just your honest opinion?

Truthfully speaking I get one season's worth out of one set of blades, that is...
IF all I had was one set of blades, and that is all I used, I would get about a year out of it.

That having been said I mow around 4-5 maybe 600 lawns a year, of various sizes and to keep it short
lets just say they range from 1/4 acre to a full acre in size.

It takes me about 45 minutes to mow a full acre, probably 10-15 to mow a 1/4,
it may not be entirely fair but lets just average it out to 1/2 hour per lawn mowed.

At 1/2 hour times 600 lawns that's 300 hours but I think that's rather on the high side,
200 might be a bit on the low side, somewhere between 2-300 hours I would
say a blade is done.

What wears in my case isn't the sail, it's the part that cuts, the sharp end
wears down as I sharpen every time my mower needs fuel, or about every 8 hours or so.
There exists, between the sail and the sharp end, a narrow section of blade.
This section becomes ever narrower as the steel wears off, it is here where things get critical.

Because once enough steel has been taken off, the blade is no longer safe to use.
It has to do with fly-apart properties, if a blade is allowed to get too thin, it can and will come apart
and I don't want to think about what would happen if a chunk of steel were to come flying out the chute.

The manufacturers have more important advice on this particular property,
matter of fact they have detailed specifications as to WHEN it should be
replaced at the most.

One more thing...
I run my blades well past those specifications, I do feel the manufacturer is
erring on the safe side but I run mine into the red zone as they say, so that
above estimate of 2-300 hours means it's definitely high time to replace them.

400 hours is way out there in my book, I don't even see there being much of a blade left after that many hours.

topsites
07-03-2010, 10:57 AM
To put this in pictures, below are two of my blades, one is almost new,
the other is well past where the manufacturer claims it should be replaced,
just for the record I only use well-worn blades like that for brush clearing and such.

In the first picture...
The black arrow points to the narrowest section of the blade.
The red paint highlights the critical "fly-apart" section of steel, it is this,
when it becomes too narrow, that will end up breaking.

The white arrow simply points to the part that's coming off,
I will say it usually bends before it breaks however if a blade bends
that also tells me I've let it go too long before replacing.
That is, unless I really hit something hard.

The second picture details the blade that is no longer safe to use.
The white arrow points at the section that has worn to critical,
the red section again points at what piece of steel usually breaks,
that blade is in what is called fly-apart danger zone.
Roughly speaking :p

Oddly enough, no, the sails on mine wear very little if at all, but you can see how
deeply the repeated sharpening has ate into the steel over time .

So NO blade should ever go past this nor should it be in use, and the manufacturers are likely having a cow just
looking at how worn that second blade is, that is well past where they claim it should be replaced.

GravelyGuy
07-03-2010, 11:10 AM
I have run blades for 400+ hrs and they are still fine. Sandy soil is what wears them out.

My 09 Exmark has 500 +/- hrs on it and I just picked up a replacement set of blades for it a little while back.

One of my Gravelys has over 600 hrs on it and it and I only own 2 sets of blades for it.

wheebil
07-03-2010, 10:48 PM
Hey guys I don't want this thread to die, I need some input. What do you all think would be a fair resolution?

you ever consider contacting the Better Business Bureau and requesting a full replacement mower? sounds like this sucker was a true lemon.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
07-04-2010, 07:38 AM
To put this in pictures, below are two of my blades, one is almost new,
the other is well past where the manufacturer claims it should be replaced,
just for the record I only use well-worn blades like that for brush clearing and such.

In the first picture...
The black arrow points to the narrowest section of the blade.
The red paint highlights the critical "fly-apart" section of steel, it is this,
when it becomes too narrow, that will end up breaking.

The white arrow simply points to the part that's coming off,
I will say it usually bends before it breaks however if a blade bends
that also tells me I've let it go too long before replacing.
That is, unless I really hit something hard.

The second picture details the blade that is no longer safe to use.
The white arrow points at the section that has worn to critical,
the red section again points at what piece of steel usually breaks,
that blade is in what is called fly-apart danger zone.
Roughly speaking :p

Oddly enough, no, the sails on mine wear very little if at all, but you can see how
deeply the repeated sharpening has ate into the steel over time .

So NO blade should ever go past this nor should it be in use, and the manufacturers are likely having a cow just
looking at how worn that second blade is, that is well past where they claim it should be replaced.


I say no more wasting time trying to prove anything with an unreasonable person. If he chooses to pay thousands more out of pocket for another brand of mower, and risk the chance of no resolution for his problem (like what happened to me on the Scag) should he have an issue so be it. :dizzy::waving:

puppypaws
07-04-2010, 07:46 AM
I have run blades for 400+ hrs and they are still fine. Sandy soil is what wears them out.

My 09 Exmark has 500 +/- hrs on it and I just picked up a replacement set of blades for it a little while back.

One of my Gravelys has over 600 hrs on it and it and I only own 2 sets of blades for it.

The fusion blades I posted a picture of are the blades he said had 400 hrs. The sails on fusion blades are what disintegrate, and I am in 0% sandy soil. As you can tell from the picture with less than 100 hrs. on the blades, the sail would be totally gone basically in 200 hrs. This is not to say there would be no blade left to go around in circles under the mower deck, but it is to say they would be vibrating and not providing any suction to stand up uncut grass, therefore, giving a very, very poor cut.

Looking at the blades "topsite" posted a picture of, it appears the sails are worn very little if any, this is a deck and blade difference (high lifts). You must concentrate your thought process on what is put on a BB mower (which is a fusion blade like in the picture), not any other blade.

QUOTE FROM TOPSITES:

One more thing...
I run my blades well past those specifications, I do feel the manufacturer is
erring on the safe side but I run mine into the red zone as they say, so that
above estimate of 2-300 hours means it's definitely high time to replace them.

400 hours is way out there in my book, I don't even see there being much of a blade left after that many hours.

Here he is speaking of a high lift blade he is using, (brand unknown) not a fusion blade, and is basically saying he should really be replacing the blades at 200+ hrs.

For you to say you put 400 to 500 hrs. on a set of blades, and they still are cutting great is a wonderful money saving service you are receiving, most people don't have that type luck.

KNIGHT81
07-06-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm a Nobie here. Recently retired, bought new Hustler Fastrak SD 25/60 to mow retirement property. I know nothing about mowers or mowing. Happily, I found this site so I can learn from you guys!

I read all of this thread. Fascinating. I know....not much of a life.....

A few posts back a wheebil made an excellent post (paraphrasing); "you ever consider contacting the Better Business Bureau and requesting a full replacement mower?"

What I do have experience with are consumer complaints to the BBB. While I agree with wheebil, if he has not already, YardFarmersLLC should write a letter to the BBB, unfortunately, I think the BBB would decide in favor of BB.

Obviously I don't know about mowers, their fair wear and tear, what constitutes "abuse" or not following "heavy use" maintenance procedures/schedules etc. I base my opinion based solely on the length & content of this thread. The BBB would look at both sides and have similar questions.

BB has given a good faith, reasonable attempt to mitigate the complaint. Not according to me, but according to many posters here. Further, the implications of the blade issue (please correct me if I'm wrong) seem to imply that perhaps maintenance was an issue. On the other hand, a couple posters disagree on that point. The point is - its a question mark. Question marks weigh in BB's favor.

I doubt a brand new replacement is in the cards via the BBB. You could go to court but at that point you stand to go even further in the red.

Never the less, he should file a complaint. Corporations don't like BBB complaints and usually soften-up giving the consumer more leverage negotiating a resolution.

I'm learning a lot from from you fellas - thanks.......Good luck YardFarmersLLC !

puppypaws
07-06-2010, 02:25 PM
I'm a Nobie here. Recently retired, bought new Hustler Fastrak SD 25/60 to mow retirement property. I know nothing about mowers or mowing. Happily, I found this site so I can learn from you guys!

I read all of this thread. Fascinating. I know....not much of a life.....

A few posts back a wheebil made an excellent post (paraphrasing); "you ever consider contacting the Better Business Bureau and requesting a full replacement mower?"

What I do have experience with are consumer complaints to the BBB. While I agree with wheebil, if he has not already, YardFarmersLLC should write a letter to the BBB, unfortunately, I think the BBB would decide in favor of BB.

Obviously I don't know about mowers, their fair wear and tear, what constitutes "abuse" or not following "heavy use" maintenance procedures/schedules etc. I base my opinion based solely on the length & content of this thread. The BBB would look at both sides and have similar questions.

BB has given a good faith, reasonable attempt to mitigate the complaint. Not according to me, but according to many posters here. Further, the implications of the blade issue (please correct me if I'm wrong) seem to imply that perhaps maintenance was an issue. On the other hand, a couple posters disagree on that point. The point is - its a question mark. Question marks weigh in BB's favor.

I doubt a brand new replacement is in the cards via the BBB. You could go to court but at that point you stand to go even further in the red.

Never the less, he should file a complaint. Corporations don't like BBB complaints and usually soften-up giving the consumer more leverage negotiating a resolution.

I'm learning a lot from from you fellas - thanks.......Good luck YardFarmersLLC !

The BBB has no power to force a company to change their way of doing business. Their job is to field complaints and compile information on companies reported by unsatisfied customers, then grade them based on numbers of negative complaints. The power a BBB possesses is to provide negative information accumulated through ongoing complaints.

Bad Boy would not be the least bit concerned about someone reporting a problem dealing with them, they understand there must be numerous complaints reported before it would reflect on their rating. The BBB actually takes first time negative reports with a grain of salt. Most of the time it comes from a single customer with a bad experience, an experience the BBB is not sure if caused by the company or an irate customer. Only when the tally starts adding up with different complaints reported does a pattern emerge of poor company/customer relations, once this is confirmed, the companies grade falls very quickly.

This statement, "you ever consider contacting the Better Business Bureau and requesting a full replacement mower," was no more than facetious statement attempting to generate small talk.

KNIGHT81
07-06-2010, 03:18 PM
"The BBB has no power to force a company to change their way of doing business."

......please do quote me where I said that. Your post is a joke.

John_99_2007
07-06-2010, 03:30 PM
Knight-
You say he should file a complaint because corporations don't like that and may soften up.
How about people should file a complaint when they have a real reason.
You are describing the shakedown I mentioned earlier.

RDA
07-06-2010, 03:37 PM
"The BBB has no power to force a company to change their way of doing business."

......please do quote me where I said that. Your post is a joke.

I don't see where "puppypaws" attributed that quote to you, that was his own statement and I agree with it as well.

Your (KNIGHT81 that is) BBB comment "I think the BBB would decide in favor of BB." is misleading, the Better Business Bureau is not an arbitrator and really does nothing more than attempt to serve as another business accreditation. If Bad Boy was an accredited member of the Better Business Bureau, Bad Boy may attempt to address the complaint (or not) with the Better Business Bureau. If Bad Boy isn't a member of the Better Business Bureau, it is basically meaningless anyway.

Regards,

Rich

nepatsfan
07-06-2010, 06:35 PM
Bad Boy Dealers near Somerset Kentucky

Valley Farm Equipment, Inc.
606-423-3421 15.96 mi

Hobdy, Dye and Read
270-384-4032 41.71 mi http://www.hdrtractors.com/

Valley Farm Equipment of Nicholasville, Inc.
859-885-1879 51.93 mi

Montgomery Tractor Sales
859-498-0342 74.49 mi

Mayo Garden Center
865-938-1010 77.15 mi

Southern Landscape Supply
931-520-7097 80.84 mi

Mayo Garden Center
865-691-1230 84.33 mi

Mayo Garden Center
865-588-1351 84.43 m

Taul Equipment Inc.
270-862-4670 86.77 mi

Hobdy, Dye and Read
Ph 270-622-5105
Fx 270-622-6728 94.90 mi

You got me there brother! You're right! I'm just a lolly home mower mowing 5 demanding acres of rough land of fast growing Bahia Grass every 5 days making that mower moan for it's very life in the hot southern sun. :cry:

But my mower is up to the task!! :drinkup:

Seems like I'm up to it too! :waving:
5 acres every 5 days should hardly be a challenge for any commercial mower. Not exactly a fair representation of any mower. Thats like buying a new car and putting 800 miles on it and telling everyone how great it is.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-06-2010, 07:51 PM
5 acres every 5 days should hardly be a challenge for any commercial mower. Not exactly a fair representation of any mower. Thats like buying a new car and putting 800 miles on it and telling everyone how great it is.


:laugh:

You can just bite me buba! :laugh:

Look! That farm boy, or who ever he is had an 6 to 8 year old Bad Boy mower he got Bad Boy to put a new diesel engine in it at Bad Boy's cost. That boy never told the whole truth at anytime he was posting here. He lied about the age of the Bad Boy mower. As far as I'm concerned he never told the whole truth through out the entire ordeal. So be it. Ya'll want to back him. Have at it!

:waving:

KNIGHT81
07-06-2010, 07:53 PM
"How about people should file a complaint when they have a real reason."

john_99_2007,

.......I understand from reading this thread you don't think he has a real reason. I don't necessarily disagree with you. I don't know. I'm not God and dn't have the right to stop him.


"You are describing the shakedown I mentioned earlier."

......you are reading an awfully lot into my post. I advocate no shakedowns. Please do quote me advocating a shakedown. I merely agreed that the BBB is a good consumer tool when needed. If you don't think its needed here I respect your opinion. However I still have the right to agree that it is a good tool as I please. This isn't China. Yet.

YardFarmersLLC
07-06-2010, 08:05 PM
:laugh:

You can just bite me buba! :laugh:

Look! That farm boy, or who ever he is had an 6 to 8 year old Bad Boy mower he got Bad Boy to put a new diesel engine in it at Bad Boy's cost. That boy never told the whole truth at anytime he was posting here. He lied about the age of the Bad Boy mower. As far as I'm concerned he never told the whole truth through out the entire ordeal. So be it. Ya'll want to back him. Have at it!

I was ready to let this die but while you are calling me a liar let's get one thing straight mr hardcore grass cutter. I never lied about the age of the unit. It's a 2006. October 06 to be precise and the engine was under warranty. Quit being an feeble minded moron.

:waving:
Posted via Mobile Device

YardFarmersLLC
07-06-2010, 08:06 PM
Oops I miss placed the response but it's easy to find.
Posted via Mobile Device

KNIGHT81
07-06-2010, 08:41 PM
"I don't see where "puppypaws" attributed that quote to you, that was his own statement and I agree with it as well."

RDA,

.....its obvious "puppypaws" was implying that my post said as much.

"the Better Business Bureau is not an arbitrator and really does nothing more than attempt to serve as another business accreditation."

...........Where did I say the BBB engaged in arbitration?

ok, I get it - lawn maintenance professionals have little regard for the BBB. I wonder why that is.

We will have to agree to disagree about its value elsewhere.

I am a recently retired US Army CSM(Ret) 13 alphabet and know jack about the lawn maintenance gig. I do respect you guys. I helped many of my men resolve consumer problems via the BBB. Very useful in my experience. True, some guys just like to complain. Don't I know. Its not my place to decide who can and can't seek the BBB's help.

Trust me, my skin is thick. I know when someone is lighting me up. puppypaws flamed my post. One of three possibilities;

1. had a bad day and thought he'd show the new guy who's boss.
2. has reading comprehension problems
3. both

I made a sincere, thoughtful, inert post and big shot tried to rub my nose in it.

BBB is worthless in the lawn care domain.

Point taken.


thanks, Mike

John_99_2007
07-06-2010, 09:09 PM
Knight81
"please do quote me advocating a shakedown"
OK.....
"Never the less, he should file a complaint. Corporations don't like BBB complaints and usually soften-up giving the consumer more leverage negotiating a resolution."

I believe this sounds like a shakedown strategy for the following reasons.
There was no warranty or claim of a warranty
There was no broken contract or claim of broken contract
So what is the complaint? That a company wouldn't replace a mower they had no obligation to replace? That they.......uh........suck?

YardFarmersLLC
07-06-2010, 09:42 PM
Knight81
"please do quote me advocating a shakedown"
OK.....
"Never the less, he should file a complaint. Corporations don't like BBB complaints and usually soften-up giving the consumer more leverage negotiating a resolution."

I believe this sounds like a shakedown strategy for the following reasons.
There was no warranty or claim of a warranty
There was no broken contract or claim of broken contract
So what is the complaint? That a company wouldn't replace a mower they had no obligation to replace? That they.......uh........suck?

I have no clue what you missed, but a full warranty was given from January 2009, and. And the mower is an October 2006. And when CAT replaced the engine in 2009 CAT gave a two year warranty on the engine, which overheated again for no reason the week before I went back to Arkansas.

John_99_2007
07-06-2010, 10:17 PM
Didn't I read in one of the rep's posts that the engine was NOT under warranty?

YardFarmersLLC
07-06-2010, 10:27 PM
The engine WAS under warranty because they started the engine warranty from the date of purchase, not the date of manufacture. And that is not by their good graces on one product. Thats how CAT does warranty

YardFarmersLLC
07-06-2010, 10:31 PM
And I still can't figure out how MS_SURVEYOR got the idea the mower is 8 years old. I think he has a chronic case of Cranial Rectumitis. His head stays up his butt.

John_99_2007
07-06-2010, 11:09 PM
Well I'm sure I and everyone else responding has missed some details but the story is just odd.
Now have you left out some details or are you just the unluckiest consumer on on the planet?

RDA
07-06-2010, 11:16 PM
"I don't see where "puppypaws" attributed that quote to you, that was his own statement and I agree with it as well."

RDA,

.....its obvious "puppypaws" was implying that my post said as much.

Implying and quoting are two very different things.

"the Better Business Bureau is not an arbitrator and really does nothing more than attempt to serve as another business accreditation."

...........Where did I say the BBB engaged in arbitration?

No where did you say that "BBB engaged in arbitration" nor did I state you did. What you did say is "I think the BBB would decide in favor of BB" and "The BBB would look at both sides". That sure sounds an awful lot like you are claiming that the Better Business Bureau serves as the middle person in dispute resolution (i.e., an arbitrator) and hence why I responded as such. I didn't misquote you by any means, I simply stated my opinion that the Better Business Bureau is not an arbitrator, whether you believe they were, implied they were, or otherwise.

ok, I get it - lawn maintenance professionals have little regard for the BBB. I wonder why that is.

We will have to agree to disagree about its value elsewhere.

I am a recently retired US Army CSM(Ret) 13 alphabet and know jack about the lawn maintenance gig. I do respect you guys. I helped many of my men resolve consumer problems via the BBB. Very useful in my experience. True, some guys just like to complain. Don't I know. Its not my place to decide who can and can't seek the BBB's help.

Trust me, my skin is thick. I know when someone is lighting me up. puppypaws flamed my post. One of three possibilities;

1. had a bad day and thought he'd show the new guy who's boss.
2. has reading comprehension problems
3. both

I made a sincere, thoughtful, inert post and big shot tried to rub my nose in it.

BBB is worthless in the lawn care domain.



I think you are taking the response way too personally, like your post, it was another person's opinion. Honestly, I don't believe many people value the Better Business Bureau as they feel that all they do is attempt to shakedown businesses to become members for a fee and really don't serve much of a purpose. That is my opinion based on what I have seen people state on this forum, that is not necessarily my opinion.

Regards,

Rich