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GreenShoesLC
06-24-2010, 11:03 AM
Hi All, I'm in need of a good quality 21" push mower.

I've been in the biz for 3 years, I started my own company this Spring. I currently have a 6.5HP 21" Toro Super Recycler GTS that gets daily use on all 15 of my contracts and performs pretty well. (We bag here in Winnipeg in the spring because of the insane amount of growth)

I'd like to know your opinions on a couple different 21's.

I need something that will bag really well, and will mulch decently.

Being from Winnipeg I know that there are almost always better prices if I drive across the border to Grand Forks or Fargo, so I wouldn't object to picking up a new 21 there.

I've used Ariens LM21's in the past and found them to work really well with great bagging performance. (I know these aren't commercial)

What do you think?

Thanks,

Anders Frederiksen
Green Shoes Lawn Care

B Gillespie
06-24-2010, 11:12 AM
Honda, Toro, Snapper. Buy commercial, the extra $$ and weight is worth it. All three brands mow well. Snapper bags great, doesn't mulch as well, and is priced about $100 less on average. Honda and Toro are almost on par with bagging and mulch great. Snapper has 6 speeds, Toro has 3, Honda is hydrostatic.
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GreenShoesLC
06-24-2010, 12:06 PM
Thanks, the Honda HRC series looks really nice, and the Toro Commercials do too. I've used snapper commercials in the past and the LM21's outbagged it on every property. The snapper probably wasn't in great shape. Previous employer was a bit unorganized!

The price for the Honda HRC216K3PDA (no self propel) onlne is $749.00

Can't find a decent price (or even the correct model) at any of the dealers in my area. Is a trip to Grand Forks or Fargo worth it?

B Gillespie
06-24-2010, 01:25 PM
If you're full time, get a self propelled. My HRC push will wear you out on hills or using it all day. It cuts very nice and is significantly quieter than the Toro 2 stroke or Snapper hi vac.
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Heintooga
06-24-2010, 06:47 PM
My HRC push will wear you out on hills or using it all day.Posted via Mobile Device


The HRC216K3PDA is 100lbs. Add bag and clippings and you're in for some hard days. I have one too, plus a Snapper commercial and added an Exmark Commercial 21 this week. If you want a bagger that will mulch also you won't find a better or more versatile machine than a Snapper Hi-vac, plus it will side discharge if you ever get in some real thick stuff. Add in that Snappers seldom break but if/when they do parts are easy to find.

cpt87gn
06-25-2010, 11:28 PM
do you want self perpelled or push if push is ok theres a new toro commercial and honda hrc for 599 free shipping no tax on ebay

albhb3
06-25-2010, 11:42 PM
stay away from the heavy toro at least the one we have is the 124lbs it becomes a workout by the end of the day

Dnryan
06-26-2010, 12:35 AM
just bought the snapper hi-vac with the kawa engine this year and i absolutly love it. Paid about $925 after all is said and done. Tested it out the first week we had it and cut some fescue that was about 6" down to 3.5 just after a rain that night and had no problems. Didnt clog and filled the bag to the top every time. I have used the toros before and i have had many problems trying to accomplish the same thing with them. They always seemed to clog with the wet grass when the bag was only about 1/3 of the way full. Personally i would never get anything else in the 21" besides the hi-vac snapper.

garyo
06-26-2010, 06:48 AM
How does the Snapper mulch?

Heintooga
06-26-2010, 07:04 AM
How does the Snapper mulch?

Snappers mulch very well. I have two and added a Honda and eXmark for variety and the Snapper/Kaw combo is tops. Though I don't have enough time with the eXmark to make a good comparison yet it's been turning the clippings to dust.

B Gillespie
06-26-2010, 09:05 AM
Snapper has two different commercial deck designs. One is primarily for mulching but also bags, and you can guess what the High Vac Bagger is intended for.

My Snapper is a High Vac model. I have a mulch kit for it, and will be spending more time with it and the Honda HRC push over the next few weeks. I'll post my opinions afterward.
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dwost
06-26-2010, 11:07 AM
Been happy with my Ariens Pro21
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=315702&highlight=pro21

GreenShoesLC
06-26-2010, 11:21 AM
Thanks for all the advice guys, I'm going to go demo an Ariens/Gravely Pro 21" and a Snapper Hi-Vac Commercial. We'll see which one bags the best. Although I hafta admit I really like the bag design on the snappers.

Dnryan
06-26-2010, 11:42 AM
the only other thing i would suggest is that if u are going to primarily run the mower for mulching, no matter what make you get, i cannot say enough for the "ninja blade" snapper has out. It's kind of weird design but it does a really good job of shredding the clippings into nothing. Not to expensive either for them. I think the dealer here sells them for about $30-35. awesome blade for mulching, but not so good if your bagging because of the way its designed to throw the clippings around under the deck. hope whatever you get works for you. good luck.

Bake71
06-26-2010, 12:42 PM
Most everybody has had the exact opposite experience with snapper commercial mowers I have had this year. The reason I went with Snapper was because it was hard to find many really negative experiences. That fact and the price of the Snappers compared to other competitor models was too much for me not go with the snapper commercial push and s50x ZTR.

On the snapper 21" push w/6.0 kawasaki, which has seen very little use since purchased in may has several annoying features in my limited use. Finally, last night the damn drive engage lever that sticks straight up in the air and has been a real pain to operate or when sitting on the trailer being a snag magnet broke. It has always been great cutting and bags full wet or dry but i didn't like some design stuff after getting a few hours usage with it. Its got some really rickety crap little design things i felt would go from annoying to frustrating, especially considering this is commercial line equipment. Along with the drive lever snapping off while mowing late yesterday it was also hard as hell to start yesterday for the first time. It has always started on the first pull until yesterday...go figure?? The routing of the pull start around the bagger is crap in my opinion and problems waiting to happen and i was right. For whatever reason, the recoil tension had noticeably dropped and since it didnt want to start after pulling several times the rope lacked sufficient tension to stay around a little pulley that routes it around the bagger...sorry, i like straight lines with stuff like that.

Anyway, i have had nothing but trouble with of my snapper pro mowers. I'm cutting this rant off and not getting specific with the ztr issues but suffice it to say i really wish i would have purchased another brand. If I had a crew trying to use this crap I can't imagine how much worse it would be...it's just me and a helper and i'm in equipment issue hell since day one. To compound the poor decision i made, my dealer sucks at doing anything more than taking money. Oh well, live and learn...i'm gonna be one smart dude come the day i die!!

Alan0354
06-26-2010, 12:45 PM
stay away from the heavy toro at least the one we have is the 124lbs it becomes a workout by the end of the day

Actually the Toro "Commercial 21" is the lightest commercial mower I have seen. It is only 90lbs. It only has the Honda GSV190 engine.

GreenShoesLC
06-26-2010, 04:31 PM
took a look at the snapper hi vac commercial, the honda hrc and an ariens/gravely pro 21. honda was best mulcher, and bagged well, very disapointed w/ the snapper. Bagging was not as good as the ariens/gravely. Thinking of going with the Ariens/Gravely

Yard-Dawg
06-27-2010, 01:52 AM
took a look at the snapper hi vac commercial, the honda hrc and an ariens/gravely pro 21. honda was best mulcher, and bagged well, very disapointed w/ the snapper. Bagging was not as good as the ariens/gravely. Thinking of going with the Ariens/Gravely

Hello Neighbour GreenShoes::canadaflag:
I know what you mean when you refer to spring growth, and I also bag everything I cut.
I have also used the Snapper Hi-Vac and after 3 days of fighting with that stupid bag design, drive engage lever, and recoil rope routing. I took the mower and dropped it off in my Snapper territory Reps yard and told him is was a poor excuse for a commercial mower, although I did like the preformance of the Kawi FJ180 motor. The price was 1/2 of MSRP and I still walked away!

I bought an Ariens Pro-21 with the same Kawi FJ180 on it. That mower will do anything I ask of it and the design is very easy to use. I can empty the bag on the PRO-21 in less time than I could remove the bag on the snapper. The bail lever design is many times better than the stupid Snapper design (I can't even think of a name for that design) and I don't have the recoil rope to untangle every time you pull on it because there is no plastic routing pulley used.

I also have a Ariens LM-21 it is a great mower and is the first choice of the staff but it need the Kawi FJ180 to be a great mower....mine has the Techumseh Vector motor.

Along with the two Ariens mowers I have a few of the older Deeres. The new Deere mowers are crap and when the dealer tried to get me to take one on a demo, I refused to take it out of the show room. I told him I would not use that crap on any lawn nor would I expect my staff to operate junk like that, call me when Deere makes a good mower again!:walking:

The snapper mower design seems to be just a bunch of after thoughts on the part of the design engineer that is totally removed from his field! I truely believe that anyone that has used a mower for a few hours could come up with a better design!

GreenShoesLC
06-27-2010, 01:05 PM
Nice to see another Canuck on here Yard-Dawg, I sympathize with the intense spring growth. You'll be happy to know I'm picking myself up an Ariens Pro 21 tomorrow.

dgw
06-27-2010, 03:33 PM
i like the good old 2 cycle lawnboys

ans there is about 20 of them a day on craigs list for between 80-100 bucks

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
06-27-2010, 04:42 PM
Honda HRC all the way! We ran 21" push snappers for 25 years and about 6 years ago we switched to the Hondas. There is a world of difference. The Honda's are pretty much bulletproof. They just keep running. We were constantly changing wheel bearings and hangers on the snappers, not to mention replacing work chutes and cracked decks. I was skeptical when we bought the first two Hondas but after comparing the two machines over a 6 month period there was a world of difference and so we phased the Snappers out and bought Hondas. One of the best things we ever did. We have about 16 Hondas.

Yard-Dawg
06-27-2010, 08:29 PM
Honda HRC all the way! We ran 21" push snappers for 25 years and about 6 years ago we switched to the Hondas. There is a world of difference. The Honda's are pretty much bulletproof. They just keep running. We were constantly changing wheel bearings and hangers on the snappers, not to mention replacing work chutes and cracked decks. I was skeptical when we bought the first two Hondas but after comparing the two machines over a 6 month period there was a world of difference and so we phased the Snappers out and bought Hondas. One of the best things we ever did. We have about 16 Hondas.

What is the model of Honda are you using....I live a block away from my local Honda dealer and would like to deal there. They are not the friendliest bunch, but it would be connievient.

Nice to see another Canuck on here Yard-Dawg, I sympathize with the intense spring growth. You'll be happy to know I'm picking myself up an Ariens Pro 21 tomorrow.

What is the price of a new Pro-21...If you don't mind me asking?

joed
06-27-2010, 08:35 PM
Anybody ever use the Honda HRS2164PDC. This is the cheapest one Honda makes. It's on special for $369 up here in Canada. It can side discharge and mulch and weighs only 62 lbs. Was thinking of trying one out.

dwost
06-27-2010, 08:38 PM
I got my pro21 for $799 shipped.
http://www.wisesales.com/ariens_911271.html

Yard-Dawg
06-27-2010, 08:48 PM
I got my pro21 for $799 shipped.
http://www.wisesales.com/ariens_911271.html

I think that is a good price but the free shipping in most cases is only in the lower 48.

yardguy28
06-27-2010, 08:57 PM
currently i'm using a 2005 toro commercial 21. i picked the unit up brand new from my dealer this year for $500. they got a deal on them from toro who had them new in box. they aren't self propelled but the thing cuts excellent, bags great and mulches just about as well.

i'm not sure you could find this same deal on the same machine but if the 2010 models perform at least as well as my 2005 you can't go wrong with a toro commercial 21. and if you use them on all your accounts weekly then the $1500 they normally cost is very justifiable IMO.

i only half about half a dozen places in a weeks time i use a 21 so i would never pay $1500 for one but since i found this one for $500 i snatched it up.

Yard-Dawg
07-01-2010, 10:12 AM
Nice to see another Canuck on here Yard-Dawg, I sympathize with the intense spring growth. You'll be happy to know I'm picking myself up an Ariens Pro 21 tomorrow.

Tell me why you picked the PRO-21 over the others you tried?

Now that you have used it a little what are your thoughts.

I know that I really like mine and might just buy a second one soon.

GreenShoesLC
07-01-2010, 10:44 AM
Tell me why you picked the PRO-21 over the others you tried?

Now that you have used it a little what are your thoughts.

I know that I really like mine and might just buy a second one soon.

I picked the PRO-21 because it outbagged the other models that I demoed. It is very solid, has steel wheels and bearings (nice and durable), comfy handle, it comes with the kawi fj180 that is a complete beast.

The other models I tried were both really good too. You can't knock the Toro Commercial 21 or the Honda HRC. However, the Ariens was at least up to par with both of these machines. At $849.99 it was a steal compared to the Toro for $1499.99 and the Honda for $1349.99.

I've used it for a little while now and I'm happy with my decision. It's bulletproof (although heavy, but hey, all commercials are!), it has great suction and lays down nice lines without a striper (although I'm going to fashion one up for it to use on some of my smaller contracts).

The Kawi 180 is great. has plenty of power and sounds great. I would wear earmuffs though. It's loud. One of the small features that I didn't originally notice was the bumper/carrying handle in front of the engine. It's great for loading (although I use a trailer most often) and if you have a moron using the mower it protects against damage to the engine from impact.

All in all, super hapy with the purchase, would recommend one to anybody.

lawnspecialties
07-01-2010, 08:46 PM
I have the commercial Honda 21" push mower. I don't know the ID number but it's the $1200 one.

Biggest waste of $1200 I've ever spent. I should have bought a $400 Lowe's machine three times than to have bought this mower.

Very tough and durable, not too hard to maneuver, cut quality sucks. Leaves mohawks and uncut rows if the fescue is fairly thick. Not what you'd expect from a $1200 push mower.

Did I mention this mower cost $1200?

Lawncutting27
07-01-2010, 10:36 PM
Hi All, I'm in need of a good quality 21" push mower.

I've been in the biz for 3 years, I started my own company this Spring. I currently have a 6.5HP 21" Toro Super Recycler GTS that gets daily use on all 15 of my contracts and performs pretty well. (We bag here in Winnipeg in the spring because of the insane amount of growth)

I'd like to know your opinions on a couple different 21's.

I need something that will bag really well, and will mulch decently.

Being from Winnipeg I know that there are almost always better prices if I drive across the border to Grand Forks or Fargo, so I wouldn't object to picking up a new 21 there.

I've used Ariens LM21's in the past and found them to work really well with great bagging performance. (I know these aren't commercial)

What do you think?

Thanks,

Anders Frederiksen
Green Shoes Lawn Care
I don't bag unless I let it over grow which has been happening to me this spring because of all the rain.

I bought a commercial toro 21 from accurate ($1350:rolleyes:) I hate how much it costs but it outlasted all my recyclers and super recyclers which are all crap. The only thing is that the bagging system on the heavey duty commercial sucks. It does bag well but emptying it is a pita.

another thing, if you don't buy your mower from a dealer here in winnipeg then it will take them 3 weeks to fix it for you even if you've bought other stuff there. At least that's how accurate is.

Differential
07-01-2010, 10:53 PM
I have an older snapper 21 commercial. It's the Hi-Vac model with the 5hp Wisconsin Robin engine. I have to agree with another comment, that it is a very versatile mower. I only have a few residential accounts, and it's my primary mower for everything. I use a high lift blade for bagging and it doesn't leave anyything behind, and the ninja blade for mulching. For "billygoat" jobs, the side discharge chews through everything. I hear alot of complaints about the drive system, but I really like it because anything that fails is very easy to replace, cheap, and is VISIBLE. I inspect it almost every morning, and haven't had anything fail.

Even with the hi-vac model, the ninja blade mulches very well. If the blade is dull, a second pass may be required for wet stuff, but with sharp blades, this mower is a "jack of all trades".

The lever that controls the self propel take a little getting used to, but I don't have any problems with it whatsoever.

I typically carry a 1/2 and 9/16 ratchet and the various parts, and can tackle any job that I come across with this single machine.

Thus far, I'm extremely pleased with the Snapper.

JoeHop6299
07-01-2010, 11:53 PM
Again--- with the 21in mowers???
No more than I use a 21 , I buy throw-a-ways from Lowes or H/D

Lawncutting27
07-02-2010, 12:12 AM
Again--- with the 21in mowers???
No more than I use a 21 , I buy throw-a-ways from Lowes or H/D

I think I'll start doing that, I feel like an idiot spending $1350 on a 21 and I only use it about 10% of the time.

JoeHop6299
07-02-2010, 12:17 AM
I get about 3 to 4 years out of the JohnDeer S/P at Lowes, and they only run 300-to 500$ The Hondas do good too!

dgw
07-02-2010, 06:10 AM
no one else likes lawn boys?

ShooterK2
07-02-2010, 08:23 AM
I love my Honda HRX217VKA. I can't compare it to the others, however, because I've never used a Toro, Snapper, or Ariens. I did, however, look at all the others in showrooms before I made a purchase. The Honda is lighter than all the commercials from any brand mentioned, as it does not claim to be a commercial mower. It is built very strong, however, and the use of the plastic (Nexite) deck is what keeps the weight down, and is also on of my favorite features of this mower. It will never rust, doesn't dent, and grass does not stick too badly to the underside of the deck. It bags great, mulches great, and the bag is easy to remove/dump/replace. It's also about half the price of most commercial mowers.

Yard-Dawg
07-02-2010, 12:10 PM
I love my Honda HRX217VKA. It is built very strong, however, and the use of the plastic (Nexite) deck is what keeps the weight down, and is also one of my favorite features of this mower. It will never rust, doesn't dent, and grass does not stick too badly to the underside of the deck.

This is what they say about the aluminum decks as well, but what they dont mention is they crack and chunks will break out of them, and very hard to fix if they can be fixed at all. For example try to find a used non commercial aluminum deck mower that does not have a cracked deck they are very hard to find. The same deck on a commercial mower will have steel reinforcement plates along the cutting edges and wheel adjusters to TRY to prevent the deck from breaking but most still find a place to crack or an object goes through the deck.

I would like to see how the Nexite decks stand up...if they don't crack and break they may be the greatest thing going....but for now I believe a good steel deck will give you the best bang for your buck in a commercial use environment....one of the few commercial mower with a steel deck is the Ariens PRO-21, there may be others that I am now aware of.

I also think that is why the Ariens commercial mower is $850.00 and most of the others are $1300.00+.

lawnboy dan
07-02-2010, 08:07 PM
i have 18 lawnboys-guess i must like them-they cut what others cant. i also fix my snappers out in the field too-simple to work on.

Robert Pruitt
07-02-2010, 08:18 PM
just bought a new Deere JS 63, after the last last one lasted for nine years.

LawnMowerKing10
07-02-2010, 10:22 PM
I have the Toro Proline 21 and I love it.

shepoutside
07-02-2010, 11:11 PM
I have the Toro Proline 21 and I love it.

Same here, awesum mowers!!

Lawncutting27
07-03-2010, 12:06 AM
Same here, awesum mowers!!

I like the mower as well but do you like the bags on them? I find them a complete pita to empty. I need to use a pail with a bag plus bounce it up and down several times to get the grass out. The cheaper toros i could fit a plastic bag right over the grass bag it self and it's done just like that.

My 21 is a toro heavy duty recycler commercial. It cost me $1350 :( I should have bought an MTD with honda engine for all I use it. But I did learn that the BBC is a fantastic feature.

GreenShoesLC
07-03-2010, 01:49 AM
Again--- with the 21in mowers???
No more than I use a 21 , I buy throw-a-ways from Lowes or H/D

When you have a large number of very small contracts that are all 20 min jobs for a 2 man crew, commercial push mowers are the machines making you your money. For a number of us operations these mowers are running several hours a day. I'd bust through a home cheapo mower in less than a month, and it cuts like **** to boot. Big mowers are great on properties that are suited to them, but to do a small residential, you're better off with a 21.

shepoutside
07-03-2010, 09:43 AM
I like the mower as well but do you like the bags on them? I find them a complete pita to empty. I need to use a pail with a bag plus bounce it up and down several times to get the grass out. The cheaper toros i could fit a plastic bag right over the grass bag it self and it's done just like that.

My 21 is a toro heavy duty recycler commercial. It cost me $1350 :( I should have bought an MTD with honda engine for all I use it. But I did learn that the BBC is a fantastic feature.

THis is true, and one reason I'm thinking of getting a new ex-mark, just for the bag

shepoutside
07-03-2010, 09:45 AM
When you have a large number of very small contracts that are all 20 min jobs for a 2 man crew, commercial push mowers are the machines making you your money. For a number of us operations these mowers are running several hours a day. I'd bust through a home cheapo mower in less than a month, and it cuts like **** to boot. Big mowers are great on properties that are suited to them, but to do a small residential, you're better off with a 21.

This is true, right equipment for the job. Most of ours are cookie cutter lots, so we use the 21's the most, and demand the best.

yardguy28
07-03-2010, 11:00 AM
I like the mower as well but do you like the bags on them? I find them a complete pita to empty. I need to use a pail with a bag plus bounce it up and down several times to get the grass out. The cheaper toros i could fit a plastic bag right over the grass bag it self and it's done just like that.

My 21 is a toro heavy duty recycler commercial. It cost me $1350 :( I should have bought an MTD with honda engine for all I use it. But I did learn that the BBC is a fantastic feature.

yet another person i have found who actually "bags" the grass.

why do you people mess with putting the clipping in bags. that is what the truck bed is for. when i bag grass in the front yard the catcher gets directly dumped into the truck bed. in the backyard i use a 55 gallon drum i cut in half to dump the catcher in and then that when full gets directly dumped into the truck bed.

no bags to mess with, no bags to line the catcher with. plain and simple.

trippy
07-03-2010, 11:08 AM
toro personal pace commercial has worked well for me...but i dont bag with it...and my help really likes the ease of use and rear wheel power...

Yard-Dawg
07-03-2010, 11:18 AM
yet another person i have found who actually "bags" the grass.

why do you people mess with putting the clipping in bags. that is what the truck bed is for. when i bag grass in the front yard the catcher gets directly dumped into the truck bed. in the backyard i use a 55 gallon drum i cut in half to dump the catcher in and then that when full gets directly dumped into the truck bed.

no bags to mess with, no bags to line the catcher with. plain and simple.

I bag almost every yard i do in the spring because of the lush grass that can't be mulched. we are just starting to be able to mulch some properties now that the summer heat has hit and the grass growth slows down.

I would NEVER dump the clippings into the truck box for the simple reason that I have to pay $35.00 to unload at the land fill (commercial rate), and I would have to make at least two loads a day. It is easier and a lot cheaper ($0.03 per bag)to bag it and put the bags in the customers garbage container and then the city takes them to the land fill & I don't have to fix flat tires either!:nono:
By doing it this way when we drive away from the job site the job is done, no unloading still to do!

yardguy28
07-03-2010, 03:13 PM
I bag almost every yard i do in the spring because of the lush grass that can't be mulched. we are just starting to be able to mulch some properties now that the summer heat has hit and the grass growth slows down.

I would NEVER dump the clippings into the truck box for the simple reason that I have to pay $35.00 to unload at the land fill (commercial rate), and I would have to make at least two loads a day. It is easier and a lot cheaper ($0.03 per bag)to bag it and put the bags in the customers garbage container and then the city takes them to the land fill & I don't have to fix flat tires either!:nono:
By doing it this way when we drive away from the job site the job is done, no unloading still to do!

$35 is steep. but around my neck of the woods we have a compost site to dump leaves, grass clippings, tree branches, hedge clippings, etc. for a commercial outfit like you and me min. $4 per truck load. goes by weight. i can usually get by with the $4 charge.

this year has been killing me though. we've had so much rain and moisture my bill for May's dumpings was $57. but thats why i charge more for bagging grass.

like you we are just now starting to be able to mulch and side discharge our lawns.

but i would hate to try and fill a bag with my 3 bushel grass catcher i use on my 36" and 52" mowers. i just walk to the truck bed and dump it there. at the end of the day the bed is full or sometimes over full and i empty out with the truck unloader i have and i'm ready for the next day.

GreenShoesLC
07-03-2010, 03:20 PM
I guess we're really lucky around here. I dump my clippings right into the truck bed and then offload them at the municipal dump. No charge. if you think about it, it's grass, it makes great compost and they should almost be paying you for it!

unkownfl
07-03-2010, 03:56 PM
I guess we're really lucky around here. I dump my clippings right into the truck bed and then offload them at the municipal dump. No charge. if you think about it, it's grass, it makes great compost and they should almost be paying you for it!

We can dump for free here too, but I yet to see anyone actually use a bagger down here...

Yard-Dawg
07-03-2010, 04:23 PM
I have tried a lot of different avenues to dispose of the clippings & leaves.

A few years ago I was able to take dry leaves in the fall and run them through my shredder mixed with old manure and then sell it back to some customers by the barrel (45 gal) in the spring, then get the job of roto-tilling them in....it was a win-win for all. But last year was real wet and then freeze up came so there was no dry leaves they were just soggy and would not shred.

Clippings I have offered to deliver for free to a few horse owners on the outskirts of town but no takers. Since our compose program closed/failed there is only one option left and that is why I bag and leave on site.

If anyone has a good solution for disposing of grass clippings I am all ears?

I do have a couple of customers that request that we just dump them in the garden area and then they spread them around to walk on between rows and in the fall they get tilled in.....that is an ideal situation but not all customers have a garden. :cry:

The best would be to find a buyer for them...lol

Lawncutting27
07-03-2010, 04:42 PM
yet another person i have found who actually "bags" the grass.

why do you people mess with putting the clipping in bags. that is what the truck bed is for. when i bag grass in the front yard the catcher gets directly dumped into the truck bed. in the backyard i use a 55 gallon drum i cut in half to dump the catcher in and then that when full gets directly dumped into the truck bed.

no bags to mess with, no bags to line the catcher with. plain and simple.

Actually I don't bag. I DO bag but only when absolutely necessary, over grown too much etc. When I do have to bag I leave it at the customers, our city picks up clippings. 90% of the time I use my 36 toro and it has a mulch kit on it, no bagging at all.

yardguy28
07-03-2010, 04:48 PM
I guess we're really lucky around here. I dump my clippings right into the truck bed and then offload them at the municipal dump. No charge. if you think about it, it's grass, it makes great compost and they should almost be paying you for it!

our city turns the leaves, shrub clipping and leaves into great dirt that is free if you load it yourself and $6.50 if you have them load it.

the larger stuff like tree branches and what not get shreaded and turned into free mulch if you load it $5.00 if you have them load it.

yeah i think they should be paying us for it but thats not the way it works here. residentials dump for a min. of $1 and commercial guys min is $4.

S man
07-23-2010, 01:01 AM
Hello Neighbour GreenShoes::canadaflag:
I know what you mean when you refer to spring growth, and I also bag everything I cut.
I have also used the Snapper Hi-Vac and after 3 days of fighting with that stupid bag design, drive engage lever, and recoil rope routing. I took the mower and dropped it off in my Snapper territory Reps yard and told him is was a poor excuse for a commercial mower, although I did like the preformance of the Kawi FJ180 motor. The price was 1/2 of MSRP and I still walked away!

I bought an Ariens Pro-21 with the same Kawi FJ180 on it. That mower will do anything I ask of it and the design is very easy to use. I can empty the bag on the PRO-21 in less time than I could remove the bag on the snapper. The bail lever design is many times better than the stupid Snapper design (I can't even think of a name for that design) and I don't have the recoil rope to untangle every time you pull on it because there is no plastic routing pulley used.

I also have a Ariens LM-21 it is a great mower and is the first choice of the staff but it need the Kawi FJ180 to be a great mower....mine has the Techumseh Vector motor.

Along with the two Ariens mowers I have a few of the older Deeres. The new Deere mowers are crap and when the dealer tried to get me to take one on a demo, I refused to take it out of the show room. I told him I would not use that crap on any lawn nor would I expect my staff to operate junk like that, call me when Deere makes a good mower again!:walking:

The snapper mower design seems to be just a bunch of after thoughts on the part of the design engineer that is totally removed from his field! I truely believe that anyone that has used a mower for a few hours could come up with a better design!

Most everybody has had the exact opposite experience with snapper commercial mowers I have had this year. The reason I went with Snapper was because it was hard to find many really negative experiences. That fact and the price of the Snappers compared to other competitor models was too much for me not go with the snapper commercial push and s50x ZTR.

On the snapper 21" push w/6.0 kawasaki, which has seen very little use since purchased in may has several annoying features in my limited use. Finally, last night the damn drive engage lever that sticks straight up in the air and has been a real pain to operate or when sitting on the trailer being a snag magnet broke. It has always been great cutting and bags full wet or dry but i didn't like some design stuff after getting a few hours usage with it. Its got some really rickety crap little design things i felt would go from annoying to frustrating, especially considering this is commercial line equipment. Along with the drive lever snapping off while mowing late yesterday it was also hard as hell to start yesterday for the first time. It has always started on the first pull until yesterday...go figure?? The routing of the pull start around the bagger is crap in my opinion and problems waiting to happen and i was right. For whatever reason, the recoil tension had noticeably dropped and since it didnt want to start after pulling several times the rope lacked sufficient tension to stay around a little pulley that routes it around the bagger...sorry, i like straight lines with stuff like that.

Anyway, i have had nothing but trouble with of my snapper pro mowers. I'm cutting this rant off and not getting specific with the ztr issues but suffice it to say i really wish i would have purchased another brand. If I had a crew trying to use this crap I can't imagine how much worse it would be...it's just me and a helper and i'm in equipment issue hell since day one. To compound the poor decision i made, my dealer sucks at doing anything more than taking money. Oh well, live and learn...i'm gonna be one smart dude come the day i die!!

Okay I have to correct you guys on this.
I have several snappers including the hi vac with the kawasaki you both had. Lets take a look at these "problems" you talk of,
1. S/p Engage lever, What's not to like about it? It is one of the easiest to use s/p. I don't even have to put the lever all the way down. It just takes some getting used to. From experience I would rather use it than the honda hrc or toro comm. s/p designs. Also when on the trailer, engage the lever and put a piece of wire around it. It won't snag and will not roll.

2. Pull rope routing, It is stupid. So a little modifying is necessary. Take off the recoil rope housing and replace it where the rope goes straight back to the handle instead of going around the bag tube.

3. Bag design? It is one of the easiest bags to take off and empty if you have the slide catcher.

All in all the snapper is a great mower.

joed
07-23-2010, 09:20 AM
When you have a large number of very small contracts that are all 20 min jobs for a 2 man crew, commercial push mowers are the machines making you your money. For a number of us operations these mowers are running several hours a day. I'd bust through a home cheapo mower in less than a month, and it cuts like **** to boot. Big mowers are great on properties that are suited to them, but to do a small residential, you're better off with a 21.

Excellent points. Around my neck of the woods here, most of the suburban lots are 2 000 to 5000/6 000 sq. feet of turf. A lot of them are heavy landscaped too. I've tried a 32" and 36" mowers on them but they don't work very well. I've also tried a 32" Wright Stander and a 34" Exmark Phazer. They work better than the walk-behinds but lots of customers complain about the ruts these two machines leave and they don't fit into people's backyards. So, from my experience, a good 21" commercial mower seems to be the best bet. It may take you a bit longer but you make that up with reduced overhead costs too.

Yard-Dawg
07-23-2010, 06:50 PM
Okay I have to correct you guys on this.
I have several snappers including the hi vac with the kawasaki you both had. Lets take a look at these "problems" you talk of,
1. S/p Engage lever, What's not to like about it? It is one of the easiest to use s/p. I don't even have to put the lever all the way down. It just takes some getting used to. From experience I would rather use it than the honda hrc or toro comm. s/p designs. Also when on the trailer, engage the lever and put a piece of wire around it. It won't snag and will not roll.

2. Pull rope routing, It is stupid. So a little modifying is necessary. Take off the recoil rope housing and replace it where the rope goes straight back to the handle instead of going around the bag tube.

3. Bag design? It is one of the easiest bags to take off and empty if you have the slide catcher.

All in all the snapper is a great mower.
If I was to buy a Snapper Hi-Vac mower and then had to take is and wire the SP lever so it will not snag on things AND even after that I can only operate it with my right hand AND then fix the recoil so it will not get tangeled in the chute design AND then fight with that stupid bag design that is nothing more than an old side discharge deck converted to a rear bag....I would hang my head in shame for buying it!

Like I have said before, it is designed by an idiot that does not use a mower! :laugh:

balreadysaid
07-23-2010, 07:54 PM
i just recieved my toro comercial 21 today and i can say it is rigid as alll hell and i like the way it is built. i looked a lawboy and the super bagger which is the same and im a snapper guy who used snappe his whole life. the toro is really nice has a gsv190 engine which gives is a litlle bit more torque than the comercial hondas and has the toro deck which from my perspective is second to none when it comes to getting the job done. the rigid setup is fine for a few looks but we will see how rigid it stays after a few weeks!

bare spot
07-23-2010, 11:47 PM
i just recieved my toro comercial 21 today and i can say it is rigid as alll hell and i like the way it is built. i looked a lawboy and the super bagger which is the same and im a snapper guy who used snappe his whole life. the toro is really nice has a gsv190 engine which gives is a litlle bit more torque than the comercial hondas and has the toro deck which from my perspective is second to none when it comes to getting the job done. the rigid setup is fine for a few looks but we will see how rigid it stays after a few weeks!
what mower is that, old lanwboy 22272 now in red? hane one, going on 5yrs, still going stromg. when or if need to bag does good, little lighter to some mowers but for the use i put it through, it's been holding up,

S man
07-24-2010, 01:14 AM
i just recieved my toro comercial 21 today and i can say it is rigid as alll hell and i like the way it is built. i looked a lawboy and the super bagger which is the same and im a snapper guy who used snappe his whole life. the toro is really nice has a gsv190 engine which gives is a litlle bit more torque than the comercial hondas and has the toro deck which from my perspective is second to none when it comes to getting the job done. the rigid setup is fine for a few looks but we will see how rigid it stays after a few weeks!

That's the mower I'm looking at getting to go with my mulching snappers.

S man
07-24-2010, 01:15 AM
If I was to buy a Snapper Hi-Vac mower and then had to take is and wire the SP lever so it will not snag on things AND even after that I can only operate it with my right hand AND then fix the recoil so it will not get tangeled in the chute design AND then fight with that stupid bag design that is nothing more than an old side discharge deck converted to a rear bag....I would hang my head in shame for buying it!

Like I have said before, it is designed by an idiot that does not use a mower! :laugh:

Each to his own.

Though I am considering getting the light duty toro. but I still like my snappers

grassman1973
07-24-2010, 01:24 AM
hoda hrc216 commercial they run about 1300 canadian 2 year warrenty and they bagg great mulch great also i own 4 of them and have had 2 for 4 year and they still runn like they are new

grassman1973
07-24-2010, 01:32 AM
I have tried a lot of different avenues to dispose of the clippings & leaves.

A few years ago I was able to take dry leaves in the fall and run them through my shredder mixed with old manure and then sell it back to some customers by the barrel (45 gal) in the spring, then get the job of roto-tilling them in....it was a win-win for all. But last year was real wet and then freeze up came so there was no dry leaves they were just soggy and would not shred.

Clippings I have offered to deliver for free to a few horse owners on the outskirts of town but no takers. Since our compose program closed/failed there is only one option left and that is why I bag and leave on site.

If anyone has a good solution for disposing of grass clippings I am all ears?

I do have a couple of customers that request that we just dump them in the garden area and then they spread them around to walk on between rows and in the fall they get tilled in.....that is an ideal situation but not all customers have a garden. :cry:

The best would be to find a buyer for them...lol


check with your local bark mulch supplyier or dirt yard they will compost then mix it in with the soil then sell it to landscapers and people needing composted bark mulch or orgaint blended soil

18lmslcsr
08-04-2010, 02:47 AM
We offered bagging years ago.... With multiple herniated disks it does not happen anymore. Lol!
We run all mulching equipment.

C.