View Full Version : question about Pre-m and Perma-Green ride on spreader

07-22-2002, 10:03 PM
Hey guys I need some answers to some questions concerning Perma-Green ride on spreaders.

The tri-mecs have the low volume label, But the Pre-m and the Msma's don't have the label for low volume. What good is the sprayer if you only can use for Broadleaf weeds.

Need some reply's from the experienced guys out there. Please reply ASAP need to let the guys at Perma-Green to ship the unit or not.

Waitng for replys

07-22-2002, 11:37 PM
There are a lot of chems you can't use in one.

MSMA being one. It would burn just from not having enough water as a carrier in the PG.

The PG was desinged mostly for broadleaf lawn apps and fert, not for all the other chems.

Many require atleast 1 gallon per a 1000 sq/ft or more.

Lets put it this way, none of the ride type sprayer spreaders can do everything nor spray MSMA without a tip and most of them a pump change.

For re-em use a 5-5-20 from Lebanon

07-23-2002, 03:50 AM
Then the PG is not the great big answer to all the spray applicators queations. How do do guys that have the PG apply pre-m? The granular applications are so much higher than liquids. I thought we were in this to make money as well as provide a good service to our customers

07-23-2002, 07:29 AM
Pre emergent

Personally I'm much more comfortable with pre-emergent impregnated in my fert. I can see it and so can my customers. It also means that I can weed spray spot or full with the PG while I spread the fert/pre product in the spring. That is a big advantage. I don't have to blanket weed control with a pre app.

Getting product down at a higher volume with the PG is a dilema. Some things you just need a full wet of at least 1 gal/k. The current PG pump will not support nozzles that will do that based on full operating speed. One option is nozzle change and slower speed. Another is to double app the area in one visit.

I started looking at changing my pump but there are size limitations that I have not fully explored yet. It's not the perfect machine but it does a lot well for me. I spray Talstar and Scotts Fluid fungicide II at low volume.

My only dilema is the post emergent stuff and flowables. But these constitute such a small part of my needs I just spot spray by hand. Next years solution may be to put an atv small boom 15-25 gal sprayer on my Scag rider for occasional use. These apps are usually specialty visits not done with regular apps anyhow so I'm not regarding it as much of a problem.

You should probably go ahead with the PG if you think it meets your other needs.

07-23-2002, 08:20 AM
Thanks Harold for your input.

Post emergence sprays are not one of my biggest concerns. But the Pre-m is one. Around here most every applicator is liquid, due to mainly the low price per application. When go from liquid to granular fert with pre-m it gets into our profit pocket. I think that I will go ahead with the order. I have some experience in spray nozzles and pumps I just might be able to play around with this.

Kent Lawns
07-23-2002, 08:39 AM
You can spray Pre-M out of this machine.

You cannot spray MSMA with it, but then again who would want to use MSMA anyway, it's old school.

For most weed/feed lawn apps, the PG unit works fine, I even know some guys who spray fung/insecticides with the thing.

07-23-2002, 09:59 AM

Have had experience with this machine. I looked on Pre-m label nothing threre about low volume application.

I would like to talk to someone about applying Pre-M. I realize that applying MSMA or any post grass product is going to be hard because of water volume. That is not my biggest corcern I only have to apply these products where new lawn have been installed and foxtail and crabgrass are a problem.

07-23-2002, 05:55 PM
Higher volumes are desirable (as we've dicussed before) with many sprayables, & this is an acknowleged limitation of the PG for things other than dicot weeds but.....this could be a great thread if we get a few things into the open.

Greengrow, How big a difference are you seeing on a cost per acre for equal amounts of liquid N (at what % slow release?) & how much Pre-M per acre, 1.5lbs? The total amount shouldn't be too crazy. Some studies suggest that the rate of certain liquids must be HIGHER than their granular versions (EC's for instance) to deliver the same efficacy. Yes, granular is often that much better. They don't contain those miserable (smelly) & volatile carrier components.

I would NOT use the EC versions of pendimethalin on a PG. They're just too volatile for low volume apps. Before rains get to them, the EC will have gassed off. Results will suffer.

But has anyone used the 60WP? You will probably jump to the conclusion that it will settle out, & it might just do that, but when properly mixed (the almost secret & seldom used correct way!) most suspensions will stay up with little or no agitation. A little Zanthum Gum maybe, but no agitation if it's added to the water properly.

Harold, What's your total water per acre at your biggest spray tip rate with the current pump & a reasonable ground speed (not crazy fast or unrasonably slow)? Maybe I can come up with something.


07-23-2002, 07:20 PM
I'm running a pint/k. I'm running around 4.8-5 mph and 7 ft swath with 2 nozzles. The 1 gpm pump can't support much more nozzle at that speed. I bought others that give me about 40 oz./k but I'm maxed on the pump and line sive and have to valve them down a little to kep contant flow on each side.

Cutting ground speed in half and 100% overlapping coverage would get me to 1/2 gal/k for some apps.

Some company has a drop in the hopper tank with detachable boom and electric pump that may be an option.

The PG is good for what is was designed for but it is not an answer to everything.

07-24-2002, 09:54 AM
I think that if you try pre-m in a perma-green you will shell out the pump in no time. The product is very abrasive and it will ruin your pump especially at such a low water volume. There is not enough water to act as a lubricant as it passes thru the pump.

MSMA is old school but it works and it is cheap. When used right it is a very effective tool. I cant vouch for using it in a PG but think you are dismissing something out of hand that works when used right.

Just my 2 cents. Mike

07-24-2002, 10:12 AM
So we're talking about .8-.9 oz of 60WP in 16 oz of water. I can probably make 3.5 - 4 oz of WP stay up in a gallon, but I think Mike brings up a valid concern. The pump life will be a real factor. It will be very abrasive.