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lawnchopper
07-26-2010, 11:43 PM
im about to do some seeding and im wondering since the area im seeding is like a black sand and on a slop and not irrigated what would be a good erosion control method to put on after i seed it? Also to help hold moisture and protect the seed.I would like to use straw or would grass hay work or lawn clippings work too? Whats best? Do i have to remove it later?, the seed grow through if i dont apply it to heavy?

Also the topsoil im using had a large brush burned on top of it. I wondering if that should be a concern with all the ash mixed in?

Brent

Smallaxe
07-27-2010, 09:22 AM
You almost have to use straw on slopes, or perhaps a floating row cover, would be better. Chop the straw if at all possible, till up the brush fire area, if possible, and wait a couple more weeks to seed, if possible.

lawnchopper
07-27-2010, 10:51 PM
You almost have to use straw on slopes, or perhaps a floating row cover.

I do agree but what makes straw better than lets say grass hay or grass clippings??

Smallaxe
07-28-2010, 08:20 AM
Course and light.
Grass clipping are clumpy then disappear when they dry, making them much more difficult to get , just the right coverage. Grass hay is a better option, than grass.

Anything will work, as long as it gives you the, "right coverage". And that is better felt, than tellt. :)

Laner
08-01-2010, 07:07 AM
I seeded a regraded slope to a river this spring and used straw mating (comes in a roll) on the severe slope areas -worked great! The homeowner didn't want to me to cover the other section that has less grade to it and now I will be redoing that area this Fall as the heavy rains we had this spring washed most of the seed away. It will get covered with straw mating this time.

coolluv
08-01-2010, 07:27 AM
I seeded a regraded slope to a river this spring and used straw mating (comes in a roll) on the severe slope areas -worked great! The homeowner didn't want to me to cover the other section that has less grade to it and now I will be redoing that area this Fall as the heavy rains we had this spring washed most of the seed away. It will get covered with straw mating this time.

Next time lay it top to bottom, not across.

Dave...

Smallaxe
08-01-2010, 07:30 AM
Does that have the nylon string in it?

CHARLES CUE
08-01-2010, 07:37 AM
Lesco has a nice roll out mating. It's green and no nylon strings. We used it on a couple jobs worked good and it biodegradable.

Charles Cue

Laner
08-01-2010, 07:38 AM
Dave -why top to bottom?

Samllaxe -yes it has nylon string in it. It is suppose to decompose within 1 year. We have mowed over it with no problems.

coolluv
08-01-2010, 10:45 AM
Dave -why top to bottom?

Samllaxe -yes it has nylon string in it. It is suppose to decompose within 1 year. We have mowed over it with no problems.

Because water can get in between the seams and wash it away. Especially on steeper slopes.

Dave...

Kiril
08-01-2010, 10:50 AM
im about to do some seeding and im wondering since the area im seeding is like a black sand and on a slop and not irrigated what would be a good erosion control method to put on after i seed it? Also to help hold moisture and protect the seed.I would like to use straw or would grass hay work or lawn clippings work too? Whats best? Do i have to remove it later?, the seed grow through if i dont apply it to heavy?

Also the topsoil im using had a large brush burned on top of it. I wondering if that should be a concern with all the ash mixed in?

Brent

Compost will do everything you need ... seed protection, erosion control.

Kiril
08-01-2010, 11:01 AM
Because water can get in between the seams and wash it away. Especially on steeper slopes.

Dave...

If that is the case, then laying it with the slope will allow for rill erosion along the seems, which I would think is a far bigger problem. I agree with laying the matting across the slope, assuming you are going to use that type of product. If it washing away is a risk, the stake it down and/or overlap it.

bam
08-01-2010, 12:34 PM
before seeding:

do a soil test on the soil: then you can amend it as needed. good soil will lead to good results for seeding.

rather than hay or grass try a product like futerra environet. as a comparison, i seeded an area, then covered some of it with the futerra, and then used pennmulch or lesco seedstarter in another small spot, where the futerra was to cumbersome to use. I used a perennial rye, and in two weeks, the area covered by futerra was full and growing. the area covered with the pellets was just starting to grow and was alot thinner. some of our counties require hay after hydroseeding, while others don't. personally see no difference in results between the two. i think that hay is bulky, and makes an absolute mess on the jobs.

so definately recommend some type of seeding mat.

coolluv
08-01-2010, 04:23 PM
If that is the case, then laying it with the slope will allow for rill erosion along the seems, which I would think is a far bigger problem. I agree with laying the matting across the slope, assuming you are going to use that type of product. If it washing away is a risk, the stake it down and/or overlap it.

I used to be a construction superintendent and I had to take erosion control classes and get certified and issued what is called the blue card. That is how they teach you and recommend you install it. In fact if a county inspector came out and saw it installed horizontally then they would make you reinstall it the right way. And yes you do use staples every 6 inches or 1 ft depending on how steep the slope is.

Maybe they teach it different in other states but that is how I was told by the instructor and that is what the county wants to see. Ive seen it laid horizontally and it failed, never seen it fail when laid vertically.

Dave...

teejet
08-01-2010, 06:06 PM
That erosion blanket is way better than just straw.

Kiril
08-01-2010, 08:14 PM
I used to be a construction superintendent and I had to take erosion control classes and get certified and issued what is called the blue card. That is how they teach you and recommend you install it. In fact if a county inspector came out and saw it installed horizontally then they would make you reinstall it the right way. And yes you do use staples every 6 inches or 1 ft depending on how steep the slope is.

Maybe they teach it different in other states but that is how I was told by the instructor and that is what the county wants to see. Ive seen it laid horizontally and it failed, never seen it fail when laid vertically.

Dave...

Consideration for flow direction, prevailing wind, type of material, etc... will dictate proper method of install. In laner's case, being on the bank of a river, his install is correct.

Compost is the better material to use when attempting to establish seed IMO.

Laner
08-01-2010, 11:10 PM
Consideration for flow direction, prevailing wind, type of material, etc... will dictate proper method of install. In laner's case, being on the bank of a river, his install is correct.

Compost is the better material to use when attempting to establish seed IMO.

Kiril -Thanks. I did a lot of research before doing the seeding to determine the right direction and had seen it done both ways, but not sure as to why one is better than the other. I felt the direction I installed was best due to the change in slope along the river bank.

I haven't done much seeding on slopes, so this was my first time using some type of erosion control. How is compost better? Will it work well on slopes? What is your compost make-up?

shooterm
08-01-2010, 11:47 PM
I'm a certified installer as well. That slope doesnt need it rolled top to bottom which is more work. I got out of class room long ago and just work for a living. We like to nit pick the little stuff when in reality its just about growing grass on alittle slope. If inspector gives you grief you inform him or over step him.

Kiril
08-01-2010, 11:49 PM
Compost is about the best thing you can add to your soil and it is a great seed cover. There are also numerous studies that show the effectiveness of compost at controlling erosion and reducing runoff if you are interested. Any good finished compost will work.

Smallaxe
08-02-2010, 11:00 AM
... In fact if a county inspector came out and saw it installed horizontally then they would make you reinstall it the right way. ...
Dave...

:laugh: :laugh: Kiril is right about the rain running downhill between the mats, and that is why it runs horizontally. Common sense says the same. Some beaurocratic idiot, is going to know the "right" way. :laugh: What has he done in his life. Read a book? fail at landscaping? get a gov't job?

What about you? Let the gov't tell you how to run your business?

Kiril
08-02-2010, 11:34 AM
:laugh: :laugh: Kiril is right about the rain running downhill between the mats, and that is why it runs horizontally. Common sense says the same. Some beaurocratic idiot, is going to know the "right" way. :laugh: What has he done in his life. Read a book? fail at landscaping? get a gov't job?

What about you? Let the gov't tell you how to run your business?

Axe, there are good reasons to run the matting down the slope instead of across it, however I don't feel this is one of them per the posted pic, especially given the gentle slope and the river. The river poses a bigger risk for erosion IMO, therefore it should be given first consideration. Also the matting doesn't appear to be overlapped, in which case I would expect there to be a higher risk of rill erosion along the seems (assuming there is surface flow to the river) if he were to have run the matting with the slope rather than across it in this case.

Smallaxe
08-02-2010, 12:07 PM
Without surface flow, a mat is unnecessary. When there is surface flows, it is always downhill.
Water will flow across the top of the mat, to some extent, b4 it soaks in. There will be much more water (per sq. inch) running down the seams than soaking into the mat.

If there was any concern for the river, they would have used sod...

Kiril
08-02-2010, 12:27 PM
Without surface flow, a mat is unnecessary. When there is surface flows, it is always downhill.
Water will flow across the top of the mat, to some extent, b4 it soaks in. There will be much more water (per sq. inch) running down the seams than soaking into the mat.

If there was any concern for the river, they would have used sod...

The "typical" method of install is to lay the matting with the anticipated direction of water flow (primary consideration). There are other factors to consider, but that is the primary one. On a steep slope that is not a channel/river/swale/irrigation ditch/etc..., this means laying it with the slope, not across it. If I am not mistaken, beyond the obvious labor savings, one main reason for this is reduced sheer stress on the matting. Of course, this is more important for permanent matting vs. decomposable matting. In either case .... the manufacturer will provide recommended installation methods for its product(s), which I would assume you have to follow if you expect any type of warranty to be honored on the product.

Cloud9Landscapes
08-03-2010, 01:15 AM
Well I say run it diagonal. Best of both worlds. I win so HA!

In all seriousness, I've always ran it top to bottom and had results that were just fine. And I've worked on some serious slopes! The biggest mistake I see is people using plastic as supposed erosion control.