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TriCityLawnCareLLC
07-29-2010, 10:33 PM
I renovated this small section of turf for a couple. There was an existing stump that had ground up, so i cleanup the the grounded stump, added 5 yards of good topsoil, seeded, fertilized. They watered at least twice daily. As you can see in the pictures the new grass came in very well. I drove by the property tonight and realized it is turning brown. It's been fairly dry hear in Ohio, we had about 1/4 of rain in the last week and a half. This is the only section of grass that's brown. Now the interesting part is that about a 1'x1' section of the new grass in on the neighbors property, and it seems to be doing ok, but the neighbors don't take that great of care of their lawn (mow it too short, weeds starting to pop through). The property owner mows at a very reasonable height. Why is it turning brown? sorry no pics of the brown grass. It doesn't appear to be dead, but very very dry, but the rest of the yard is green.

grass4gas
07-29-2010, 10:39 PM
You posted pics of the before, during and after...why did you not post a pic or two of what it is you're talking about?:confused:

Can't offer any help without some pics...

TriCityLawnCareLLC
07-29-2010, 10:53 PM
i don't have any.

grass4gas
07-30-2010, 06:43 AM
i don't have any.

Then why are you asking for help in diaognosing the issue if "WE" don't have pictures to look at so we can help you?

We are not magicians...

Smallaxe
07-30-2010, 08:42 AM
When the new grass is still olive green, let it grow as long as possible, between cuts, during summer. Especially in the sunny areas.

Mark Oomkes
07-30-2010, 08:55 AM
You posted pics of the before, during and after...why did you not post a pic or two of what it is you're talking about?:confused:

Can't offer any help without some pics...

lol

Let's see if this helps

Drought stress

Dog urine

hydrophobic soil

grubs

sod webworm

chinch bugs

pythium

dollar spot

NRS

red thread

brown patch

snow mold

flying spaghetti monster

Sure I missed more than a few, but these were just off the top of my head.

(Last 2 were for grins and giggles)

Mark Oomkes
07-30-2010, 08:58 AM
When the new grass is still olive green, let it grow as long as possible, between cuts, during summer. Especially in the sunny areas.

I'm trying to understand this.

How would one not let it grow as long as possible between cuts?

Cut it once a month and it would be really long.

Cut it every day and it wouldn't be.

Besides, if you cut it more frequently, you are 'forcing' the growth to occur at the root level, which is what you want. You ever let sod get real long and then try to cut it? Or do you cut it ASAP without sucking it up?

fl-landscapes
07-30-2010, 10:43 AM
just a guess as others have said without pics. BUT if the newly seeded area is the only area browning out....it could be the newly seeded area doesnt have as deep a root system yet as the established part of the lawn and is suffering heat and drought stress sooner than the rest of the yard because of its more shallow root system????? just a thought

Kiril
07-30-2010, 12:04 PM
I'm trying to understand this.

How would one not let it grow as long as possible between cuts?

How about not cutting until it is needed?

Besides, if you cut it more frequently, you are 'forcing' the growth to occur at the root level, which is what you want.

Please expand on this.

Mark Oomkes
07-30-2010, 04:12 PM
How about not cutting until it is needed?

Duh

Please expand on this.

Expand on what?

You already know everything there is to know about everything, we're soooooo very fortunate to have you gracing us with your presence.

You forgot to add the sheep picture.

jonthepain
07-30-2010, 04:41 PM
subtle....

grass4gas
07-30-2010, 05:08 PM
lol

Let's see if this helps

Drought stress

Dog urine

hydrophobic soil

grubs

sod webworm

chinch bugs

pythium

dollar spot

NRS

red thread

brown patch

snow mold

flying spaghetti monster

Sure I missed more than a few, but these were just off the top of my head.

(Last 2 were for grins and giggles)

You forgot the magic 8 ball...it always has the right answer:laugh:

Smallaxe
07-30-2010, 07:00 PM
It needs to be cut, becuz it is in the contract.
It needs to be cut, becuz it looks a little shaggy.
It needs to be cut, becuz it is 3.5" long.
It needs to be cut, becuz its Tuesday.
It needs to be cut, becuz I feel it does.

How about: It needs to be cut, becuz it is falling over an shading out its neighbor, and let's keep it about 4" long until it cools off a little bit.

Do we cut it, when it's dry, or does it matter?

:)

Kiril
07-30-2010, 10:10 PM
Expand on what?

I think it is pretty clear what I asked you to expand on. Can you do it or not?

jonthepain
07-30-2010, 10:57 PM
Inquiring minds like mine want to know

Mark Oomkes
08-02-2010, 03:20 PM
I think it is pretty clear what I asked you to expand on. Can you do it or not?

Nah, figured I'd just throw it out there and let it sit. Sorta like your replies.

Kiril
08-02-2010, 03:42 PM
Nah, figured I'd just throw it out there and let it sit. Sorta like your replies.

I see. How about you read the following, then answer the question.

http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/dickinso/grassland/1022.htm

Bajak
08-02-2010, 04:03 PM
Grass plants have developed biological processes as defoliation resistance mechanisms in response to grazing during the long period of coevolution with herbivores....

Rabbits or goats? :jester:



:waving:

coolluv
08-02-2010, 04:25 PM
I read most of that and now my head hurts. :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

Dave...

Bajak
08-02-2010, 04:36 PM
I see. How about you read the following, then answer the question.

http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/dickinso/grassland/1022.htm

Second paragraph in.
Plant developmental morphology is the study of plant growth and development. Grassland managers need a working knowledge of grass growth and development in order to develop sound grazing management strategies, to understand when to apply specific management practices, to know the effects of various management practices on the plant communities, and to be able to anticipate the secondary effects on livestock and wildlife.

What does grassland management have to do with lawn maintenance?
Same main ingredient in bread or pastry, they are still two very dissimilar products.
Thanks anyway for the link. I read it and did come away with some info.

Mark Oomkes
08-02-2010, 05:03 PM
I see. How about you read the following, then answer the question.

http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/dickinso/grassland/1022.htm

Honestly, I don't have the slightest freaking clue what that has to do with anything. I wore out my dictionary trying to look up all those fancy words.

I work in the real world, not in academia or some experimental biomass growing BS whatever.

In my experience (whether it is scientific or not) the sooner and more frequent newly laid sod is mowed, the more root development occurs.

I'm sure I am wrong, just as I was in the plant ID thread, and Kiril is now trolling me to find any post I make that doesn't fit into his purely academic and scientific world.

So go ahead Kiril, inform me how my real life experience doesn't match up with some scientific experimental BS.

jonthepain
08-02-2010, 06:05 PM
I'm confused. I've been taught (not in academia) that allowing turf to grow tall encourages root growth, whereas your experience has been that cutting turf frequently encourages root growth.

Hopefully without the vitriol, can somebody clear this up for me?

I really don't have a dog in this fight, because I don't mow (except my own lawn,) and I do not worship at the altar of environmentalism nor chemicalism.

Thanks

Mark Oomkes
08-02-2010, 06:27 PM
I'm confused. I've been taught (not in academia) that allowing turf to grow tall encourages root growth, whereas your experience has been that cutting freshly installed sod frequently encourages root growth.

Hopefully without the vitriol, can somebody clear this up for me?

I really don't have a dog in this fight, because I don't mow (except my own lawn,) and I do not worship at the altar of environmentalism nor chemicalism.

Thanks

Fixed it for ya.

Kiril
08-02-2010, 09:25 PM
Honestly, I don't have the slightest freaking clue what that has to do with anything. I wore out my dictionary trying to look up all those fancy words.

If you can't connect the dots then forget it .... you never will. You also should refrain from speaking about plant physiology and responses to cutting (also known as defoliation). :hammerhead:

Kiril
08-02-2010, 09:28 PM
What does grassland management have to do with lawn maintenance?

Come on guys. Grass is grass .... and you and your mower are the grazers.

Welcome to the wonderful world of plant biology.

Mark Oomkes
08-02-2010, 11:10 PM
If you can't connect the dots then forget it .... you never will. You also should refrain from speaking about plant physiology and responses to cutting (also known as defoliation). :hammerhead:

Yes sir, O almighty and all knowledgeable one.

Sometimes actual experience is worth far more than all the book knowledge one can gain.

jonthepain
08-02-2010, 11:39 PM
ok, so you are saying that freshly laid sod reacts to frequent cuttings by producing more roots, whereas established turf produces more roots if kept high.

i can't really tell whether you were being snide or not by your response (fixed it for ya) so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, however i must say that the childishness of most of the conversation in this thread would lead most reasonable people to believe that you were being derisive, instead of just saying "no you missed the point, i am referring to new sod, not established turf."

Mark Oomkes
08-02-2010, 11:53 PM
ok, so you are saying that freshly laid sod reacts to frequent cuttings by producing more roots, whereas established turf produces more roots if kept high.

i can't really tell whether you were being snide or not by your response (fixed it for ya) so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, however i must say that the childishness of most of the conversation in this thread would lead most reasonable people to believe that you were being derisive, instead of just saying "no you missed the point, i am referring to new sod, not established turf."

Sorry, not meant for you, I was being serious about the fixing.

In my experience, which isn't in a scientifically controlled setting, freshly laid sod will root in faster when it is cut more frequently. Not saying or implying anything about the depth of the roots, just that instead of the plant spending energy on top growth, it will force more growth to the roots.

Sarcasm on: I'm sure this is just an anomaly that I have experienced over and over again and Kiril in his infinite wisdom will prove me wrong over and over again, because he can't comprehend an apology in another thread that was given long before he showed me that I made a mistake in going off on another poster. Sarcasm off.

bigslick7878
08-03-2010, 12:02 AM
Sorry, not meant for you, I was being serious about the fixing.

In my experience, which isn't in a scientifically controlled setting, freshly laid sod will root in faster when it is cut more frequently. Not saying or implying anything about the depth of the roots, just that instead of the plant spending energy on top growth, it will force more growth to the roots.

.

Pure speculation "theory" based.

Complete hogwash.

I have never heard anything of the sort when it comes to the "frequency you cut newly installed sod".

What do you cut it every other day? Every third day?

Completely ridiculous, and that is from my real world experience.

Mark Oomkes
08-03-2010, 12:07 AM
Pure speculation "theory" based.

Complete hogwash.

I have never heard anything of the sort when it comes to the "frequency you cut newly installed sod".

What do you cut it every other day? Every third day?

Completely ridiculous, and that is from my real world experience.

Like I said, just an anomaly.

Kiril
08-03-2010, 10:11 AM
In my experience, which isn't in a scientifically controlled setting, freshly laid sod will root in faster when it is cut more frequently. Not saying or implying anything about the depth of the roots, just that instead of the plant spending energy on top growth, it will force more growth to the roots.

Sorry dude, but your "experience" means nothing, especially in light of published research. So how exactly did you determine this? Did you perform an experiment with a control to measure root growth based purely on cutting height and frequency with all other variables held constant? If you did ... by all means please present the data and let the scientific community know what a bunch of idiots they are.

Sarcasm on: I'm sure this is just an anomaly that I have experienced over and over again and Kiril in his infinite wisdom will prove me wrong over and over again, because he can't comprehend an apology in another thread that was given long before he showed me that I made a mistake in going off on another poster. Sarcasm off.

Has nothing to do with that thread ... it has to do with presenting accurate information on a public forum. If you want to see it for something else .... then by all means be my guest.

ChiTownAmateur
08-03-2010, 01:22 PM
The article was a good read. Basically it explains that the time of year and the stage of growth of the grass plants has an effect upon what grows, how and when.

Cut off too much foliage, it greatly reduces the rooting structure (50% is the example used).

CUT TOO OFTEN -- and the rooting is reduced and can become problematic

Cutting too short in late fall or early spring has negative effects upon root growth

Cutting at the proper intervals, allowing the grass time to recover from the last cutting is optimal

Roots only live for about one year and are continuously being regenerated

some great stuff in there you just have to get past kiril's style if it affects you

jonthepain
08-03-2010, 01:28 PM
Great, concise synopsis. Very helpful, thanks.

jon

ps I put a link to that ND State white paper on my website.

Kiril
08-03-2010, 03:32 PM
Here's a couple more for your repository.

http://cnrit.tamu.edu/rlem/textbook/Chapter4.htm

http://www.grassland.unl.edu/grass.htm

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/natres/06108.html

http://www.plantsciences.ucdavis.edu/gmcourse/module_resources/module1/resources/grass%20brochure%5B1%5D.pdf

jonthepain
08-03-2010, 03:47 PM
thanks mr. K