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View Full Version : carry a flashlighjt on your keychain !


David Gretzmier
08-02-2010, 11:56 PM
just thought I would pass this along, tonight I sold 4 more add on lights to a job finished today merely by using a flashlight on my keychain, and holding it in place while the customer looked at the effect. mine is a simple 10440 ( lithium rechargable aaa ) powered titanium light, around 50 bucks, with a cree xpg LED that I had swapped ( via candlepowerforums.com ) for a warmer, maybe 3500k tint xpg LED. on high I get about 230 lumens, and a fairly close replica of a 20 watt 60 degree halogen.

I have sold a few dozen this way over the years, but I am not sure we have ever discussed this in the forum.

fastpine
08-03-2010, 03:12 AM
Why would anyone be at the customers house after dark?..

Fireguy97
08-03-2010, 04:20 AM
Why would anyone be at the customers house after dark?..

Do your clients want their landscape lights on only during the day? Are you that good of a sales person that they can 'see' how the lights will look during the day?

Mick

The Lighting Geek
08-03-2010, 10:03 AM
I have sold many add on fixtures using my ASP led tactical flashlight which I carry with me in a very small holster. It is very small but powerful.

fastpine
08-03-2010, 12:27 PM
Do your clients want their landscape lights on only during the day? Are you that good of a sales person that they can 'see' how the lights will look during the day?

Mick

No, but that doesent mean you have to install them in the dark. As far as pitching landscape lighting and how it typicaly looks. I have plenty of catalogues, and pictures that will show a replication of the desired effect. Sides, who doesent have enough imagination to visualize what some low voltage lights would do, especially after seeing a coupple catalogue flicks?

The Lighting Geek
08-03-2010, 02:32 PM
No, but that doesent mean you have to install them in the dark. As far as pitching landscape lighting and how it typicaly looks. I have plenty of catalogues, and pictures that will show a replication of the desired effect. Sides, who doesent have enough imagination to visualize what some low voltage lights would do, especially after seeing a coupple catalogue flicks?

I spend many a night in the landscape with my clients. Most people who need landscape lighting need help visualizing. A catalog can help but showing them pictures of your work or demonstrating the effect is best. Catalogs usually result in customers trying to pick the fixture. I win most of the bids when the other guy produces a catalog, even if I am the highest bidder. Giving a catalog to a client is like giving them a catalog of car parts and asking them to build a car.

Now back to flashlights...LOL

Fireguy97
08-03-2010, 02:50 PM
No, but that doesent mean you have to install them in the dark.

Who said anything about installing in the dark? To me, it sounds like David finished the job during the day, walked through the finished job with the client, (at night) and with his flashlight sold four more add on lights.


just thought I would pass this along, tonight I sold 4 more add on lights to a job finished today merely by using a flashlight on my keychain, and holding it in place while the customer looked at the effect.


As far as pitching landscape lighting and how it typicaly looks. I have plenty of catalogues, and pictures that will show a replication of the desired effect. Sides, who doesent have enough imagination to visualize what some low voltage lights would do, especially after seeing a coupple catalogue flicks?

From the sounds of it, you have never taken a professional sales course, or read anything about sales. If you had, you would have learned that there are four or five different types of client/buyers. A good sales person will be able to differentiate between them and sell to their 'type'. You don't know what type this person is, I don’t. David does, and from the sounds of it, he was successful with an add-on sale.

Fastp, how did you figure that your catalogs would show this client what these additional tree(s)/shrubs would look like (at night) with the rest of his landscape highlighted in the background?

Mick

Fireguy97
08-03-2010, 02:55 PM
I spend many a night in the landscape with my clients. Most people who need landscape lighting need help visualizing. A catalog can help but showing them pictures of your work or demonstrating the effect is best. Catalogs usually result in customers trying to pick the fixture. I win most of the bids when the other guy produces a catalog, even if I am the highest bidder.

Giving a catalog to a client is like giving them a catalog of car parts and asking them to build a car.

Now back to flashlights...LOL

Nicely put!

Mick

Southernlandscape343
08-03-2010, 03:06 PM
I bought a rechargeable LI-on Tactical flashlight from Northern Tool and have had great luck with it. It comes with a clip for your pocket or belt, along with charger for $50. Personally I feel that this flashlight is better than some of the surefire flashlights. This small flashlight puts out 140 Lumens!

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200395696_200395696

fastpine
08-03-2010, 10:43 PM
By reading 10 sentences from me you make a rediculous, rude, assumption that I know nothing about sales,,excuse me while I search for the smiley face jerking his di ck...

Im not going to argue with you mick,,just chalk it up to a difference in oppinion. Just dont be rude while replying to my simple question..

Now maby you can answer the original question I asked....Why on earth would a contractor, or a customer decide to do a landscape walkthrough at night?..

After the sun sets its dinner time,,customers dont want their landscaper around then,,after dinner is family time,,and the same applys.

Im dying for an explanation.....

fastpine
08-03-2010, 10:49 PM
Fastp, how did you figure that your catalogs would show this client what these additional tree(s)/shrubs would look like (at night) with the rest of his landscape highlighted in the background?

Mick
:laughing:
Maby because the catalogues have pictures of the EXACT SAME THING....

I have faith that my customers have an ounce of immagination,,its not that hard to visualize..

I agree, if I was on site at night(for some weird reason) a small light would be a great way to get the point across...But who would be there then?..it would be super rare,,maby if i dropped my wallet in their back yard or something..:laugh:

fastpine
08-03-2010, 10:56 PM
I spend many a night in the landscape with my clients. Most people who need landscape lighting need help visualizing. A catalog can help but showing them pictures of your work or demonstrating the effect is best. Catalogs usually result in customers trying to pick the fixture. I win most of the bids when the other guy produces a catalog, even if I am the highest bidder. Giving a catalog to a client is like giving them a catalog of car parts and asking them to build a car.

Now back to flashlights...LOL

This is referring to people who are already in the market for lighting,,in which case a night time walkthrough would be propper..The OP was talking about doing a walkthrough, then selling the additional lights,,Which is really odd to me,,why do a walkthrough when its dark and hard to see..I just dont understand being on the site when its dark,,,nothing can be accomplished.

extlights
08-04-2010, 11:53 AM
By reading 10 sentences from me you make a rediculous, rude, assumption that I know nothing about sales,,excuse me while I search for the smiley face jerking his di ck...

Im not going to argue with you mick,,just chalk it up to a difference in oppinion. Just dont be rude while replying to my simple question..

Now maby you can answer the original question I asked....Why on earth would a contractor, or a customer decide to do a landscape walkthrough at night?..

After the sun sets its dinner time,,customers dont want their landscaper around then,,after dinner is family time,,and the same applys.

Im dying for an explanation.....

You are talking about landscape LIGHTING right, and not just landscaping? I agree no homeowner would want a landscaper at their home after dark, but with lighting it's a different story. No the system isn't installed at night, but wouldn't you want to go back after dark to make any adjustments if needed? This is where you can do a walk through with the customer and tweak anything that might need it. It's good customer service and shows them that you care about the design, installation and making sure it's perfect.

Fireguy97
08-04-2010, 12:42 PM
By reading 10 sentences from me you make a rediculous, rude, assumption that I know nothing about sales,,excuse me while I search for the smiley face jerking his di ck...

Im not going to argue with you mick,,just chalk it up to a difference in oppinion. Just dont be rude while replying to my simple question..

So you have had professional sales training? Iím sorry that my comments got you so riled up. It wasnít the goal. It was meant to be informative, and suggestive. From your remarks, it didnít sound like you knew that there are different reasons clients buy, and different types of hot buttons that clients respond to. Again, my apology.

Now maby you can answer the original question I asked....Why on earth would a contractor, or a customer decide to do a landscape walkthrough at night?..

After the sun sets its dinner time,,customers dont want their landscaper around then,,after dinner is family time,,and the same applys.

Im dying for an explanation.....

I am still amazed that you even ask this question. After I install my Irrigation jobs, my walk-through with my clients is designed to show the completed work, client training, and any final adjustments, and answer any questions. After I install Landscape Lighting jobs I make the final adjustments and walk-though at night. At this time the client can see the final results.

I have also installed security camera systems. I have met with clients at ten pm to see what the client wanted to protect. I was the highest price of five contractors, but was the only one to get the results and the design that the client wanted and needed. I wanted to get the client to see what the bad guys see at night, and what parts of his home the neighbors can see at night. I was able to show the client exactly what needed to be fixed.

When you do an installation Fastp, do you just do the last of the work, clean up, leave an invoice, pack-up and leave? Do you walk-through with your client? Does the client want to look at your final work?

How do you expect a client to see the final results of a Landscape Lighting job during the day? Looking at the results of a Landscape Lighting job during the day is like looking at the results of a retaining wall installation at midnight.

But then again Fastp, thatís just my opinion.

Mick

Fireguy97
08-04-2010, 01:00 PM
The OP was talking about doing a walkthrough, then selling the additional lights,,Which is really odd to me,,why do a walkthrough when its dark and hard to see..I just dont understand being on the site when its dark,,,nothing can be accomplished.

You might want to go back and read the actual first post.

just thought I would pass this along, tonight I sold 4 more add on lights to a job finished today merely by using a flashlight on my keychain, and holding it in place while the customer looked at the effect....

...I have sold a few dozen this way over the years, but I am not sure we have ever discussed this in the forum.

The OP sells and installs Landscape Lighting Systems. He was showing the client the benifits of adding four more lights to and existing lighting system.

The OP has told us that he has sold several dozen this way over the years. Other members of the thread have said that they also do it in a similar manner. I have sold many thousands of dollars of product and installation by being at the clients home or business at night (with the client) before and after the job. I don't have a problem with contractors (like yourself) that believe that it's useless to be there at night.

I just dont understand being on the site when its dark,,,nothing can be accomplished

Keep thinking that way. I make a lot more money.

Mick

Tomwilllight
08-04-2010, 04:31 PM
Why would anyone be at the customers house after dark?..

Fastpine,

I think you have missed the essence of what we are talking about in this forum. I don't think you understand how important DARKNESS is to Lighting Design. Nor do you understand how difficult it is to create good lighting design in a residential garden.

For a Lighting Design to work, the Designer has to make a series of decisions about where to put the light (focus it) and to not put the light (leave a shadow) based on how the light is to be used in as many situations as it is possible for the client to imagine. Those decisions run the gamut from very simple to amazingly complex.

In essence, the designer has to make decisions that determine how light will alter the space once the shadows become visible. This simply cannot be done effectively without seeing the design at night, in full darkness.

I've learned the movement of an uplight 1/4" can make gigantic differences in the look of a tree and I know I can't possibly determine the focus of every light installed during the daytime.

This is why I believe Landscape Lighting Design is the most complex forms of lighting design because of it's essential nature. Every garden we light is different and as the seasons and the years roll by they become even more different. Every client is different and those clients may get out of their chairs, walk around in the design and view it in difficult to predict ways.

If you sell your services on your assumed ability to reproduce an effect you found in a catalogue without checking at night, you are not selling a design. You are selling a bunch of lights, wire and other gear that most likely will not create a cohesive whole in the garden. The clients may like it but you are selling frozen soy milk when the clients deserve Ben and Jerry's.

Tom

And I always carry a flashlight to demonstrate an effect and I use my coat to cover those glaring post-tops so the clients may understand what "Visual Comfort" means.

David Gretzmier
08-04-2010, 07:19 PM
fastpine, I am sorry, but this is a forum for guys who do primarily landscape lighting. I agree, I love to have dinner with my family and call it quits as far as digging and installing at dark as well, as do my clients.

I too do some planting, irrigation, beds, fountains, walls, rock work, and without doing lighting for those projects, I never visit those places at night. you will find as you install only landscape lighting for folks, that you will need to visit those places at night to do final precision aiming and walk throughs with clients. I have done hundreds of such walk throughs... most folks on here have also. my gut tells me you have maybe installed some lighting, but not a lot.

It is ok to say you do one thing or other, and yes, disagree and make your logic points, but not ok to use profanity. This site can help you tremendously in business if you are willing to listen and learn from pro's, but not if you just come here to fight and argue. what you do is up to you, but getting better at our craft, and helping others do the same is what most of us are here for.

emby
08-04-2010, 07:32 PM
Perfectly said Tom.

Once again I consider myself an apprentice and when you have seasoned designers offering this kind of advice and your serious about Landscape Lighting Design I personally would take all of their advice.
Like most people who participate on this forum I love what I do with a passion and that is what drives me. Its nice to be paid for this service but for me it truly is a passion and I love my job.
There is a lot to learn but you have to have the drive to ensure that your customers are always happy. Completing your job during the day and not going back to look and make adjustments to ensure that its perfect for your customer is just plain wrong.
Good luck with what your doing but if I were you I would not quit your other job just yet.

Ken