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jackmen
08-09-2010, 08:39 AM
I just purchased a a new bad boy lightning 60" with the 26 HP Kawasaki Liquid cooled. This thing is a true cutting machine, very impressed with it and its ability.

I do have a a problem though. If I put the engine at half throttle (2600 RPM) and engage the blades, the engine dies, or if I start to pull forward or reverse at that rpm, the engine dies. This happens Hot or cold, doesn't make any difference. The engines sounds fine, and doesn't run rough. Also if it dies and its warm, I have to choke it to get it going.

If I bring things up to full throttle everything is fine, (which is where i run it any way).

Just wondering if any one else has this problem with a new mower. I just got rid of a 23 HP Kohler on a gravely and it ran fine at half throttle.

Almost sounds like the carb is not getting enough fuel at everything except full throttle. Unfortunately the carb is not adjustable for the fuel mixture. Is this maybe part of emissions issues,that they have to run these engines so lean?

Can any body help that has had a similar issue? I am located 100 miles from a dealer, I was hoping to avoid a trip to him.


Jack Mentink

Rolla, MO

Grubrunner
08-09-2010, 08:53 AM
Now I understand why you're engaing the PTO at half throttle [very astute actually] but just curious why you would pull-forward or reverse at half throttle with the PTO engaged...?

jackmen
08-09-2010, 08:58 AM
I often run at only half throttle for the first several minutes till the motor is fully warmed up.

retrodog
08-09-2010, 01:16 PM
On all the 26hp LC's we sell, I tell them to put the engine to full throttle before engaging blades, very normal issue on nearly all. Check your throttle rpms at full stick, and make sure it is running atleast 3600 with the blades off. If not, on the back of the engine where the throttle cable goes in there is a plate with 2 10mm nuts on it, loosen 2 nuts and move the plate up. That will raise your throttle a little more, and then maybe you can engage at half stick. Also another trick, before you engage your blades, you might let the deck down a litte, that relieves extra stress on the belt.

pugs
08-09-2010, 02:35 PM
Is this when the engine is cold or warmed up? Does it still die at half throttle after the engine has been warmed up or run for a few hours?

Jake4551
08-09-2010, 02:40 PM
Need to start your deck at full throttle. Takes a lot to spool up that deck. I have used mowers that choke down at full throttle, with some movement, much less 1/2 throttle.

bradseabridge
08-09-2010, 02:41 PM
did you even read the entire original post? All the answers to your questions are in the post.

Grubrunner
08-10-2010, 12:04 AM
Need to start your deck at full throttle. Takes a lot to spool up that deck. I have used mowers that choke down at full throttle, with some movement, much less 1/2 throttle.

What?!?!

Do you know the number one reason for snapped deck belts?

Anyone [dealer/owner/operator] who's been in this business for any reasonable amount of time will tell you, you should NEVER engage the PTO at full throttle!

:hammerhead:

Jake4551
08-10-2010, 09:26 AM
Thats bull grubrunner. Never snapped a belt EVER! starting a deck at full throttle. In fact I have only worn a couple of belts out. Do you believe it is better to put the excess wear on the engine??
Grasshopper 721D if moving forward will not engage the deck at half throttle without serious drag on the engine, and sometimes killing the engine. Also same problem with 25hp kohler JD 757. These are commerical mowers, lawn tractors are worse yet, especially if you are moving at all.
I will have to check my Ferris manual, but JD's that I have had in the past state in the manual, written by the engineers to engage PTO at FULL throttle.

Jake4551
08-10-2010, 09:40 AM
I have a Z4 manual here, and it does state not to start it at full throttle, but does not recommend a particular position. I have 2 Wright manuals one says 3/4 and another full. All of my JD manuals say full throttle. Not sure about my Ferris manual, not here right now.
So opinion on this seems to vary by manufacturer. However, I think a lot of people at 1/2 are bogging their engines down too much.
SO some manufacturers do recommend full throttle starts.

retrodog
08-10-2010, 09:44 AM
I have a 52" lightning 26hp lc with a hair over 1700 hours on it, and I have engaged the PTO at full throttle everytime it was used. I have replaced 1 belt on it due to just getting worn out, and a set of spindle bearings, I have over 100 of the 26hp running around here now, and I tell everyone of them to engage the PTO at full throttle, so far knock on wood, I haven't had anyone come in to the shop and say that that was the reason their belt broke, or got worn out.... not trying to sound like a know it all or anything, just sharing my experience. I have a 35hp cat diesel, a 31hp kawasaki, and a 32hp vanguard also, and they will engage the pto at idle with no problems at all, but I still do it at full throttle out of habit.....

Jake4551
08-10-2010, 09:54 AM
I think a lot of this depends on the manufacturer and what you are used to. I used to always have JD's and it was always full throttle.
A blanket statement that nothing should be started at full throttle is where I differ.

laman
08-10-2010, 11:02 AM
I have a lazer hp 23 hp kawasaki. I let it warm up a couple minutes and I put the pto at idle no problems. I have almost 500 hrs and never had a problem doing it this way. The dealer told me doing it this way will increase clutch life.

Grubrunner
08-10-2010, 11:17 AM
Thats bull grubrunner. Never snapped a belt EVER! starting a deck at full throttle. In fact I have only worn a couple of belts out. Do you believe it is better to put the excess wear on the engine??

Where/when exactly is the excess wear on the engine you're speaking of? You engage at half throttle for 1-2 seconds tops, then throttle up and cut.

If your engine can't hand 1-2 seconds of PTO engagement at half throttle, before rolling, then you're probable running a Briggs... or some other useless garbage.

Grasshopper 721D if moving forward will not engage the deck at half throttle without serious drag on the engine, and sometimes killing the engine. Also same problem with 25hp kohler JD 757. These are commerical mowers, lawn tractors are worse yet, especially if you are moving at all.

Why whould you want to engage the deck at half throttle while moving?

Yes, I agree that lawn tractors are worse but just because these are commercial mowers, doesn't mean they should not be taken care of.

Longevity my friend....

I will have to check my Ferris manual, but JD's that I have had in the past state in the manual, written by the engineers to engage PTO at FULL throttle.

I've only seen lawn tractor and residential ZTR manuals advise to engage at full throttle - usually running those worthless, underpowered, over specified engines I spoke of earlier.

I stand to be corrected.

Anyway....

I would regularly snap deck belts for years until an "old-timer" told me I was engaging the PTO at full throttle.

I listened and have yet to snap a deck belt at start-up/engagement since. My belts since has snapped because of wear/tear...... the reason they should be replaced for.

I will now run the engine [at initial start up] for 2-3mins at 1/4 throttle, take it to 1/2 throttle and engage the blades [stationary] then lever it to full throttle and cut.

My recently purchased Exmark dealer advised me the same thing. He's been in this business for just shy of 14-years and says, over the years working throughout three different dealerships selling various brands, he's sold more deck belts for that very same reason than any other.

To each their own my friend.

bradseabridge
08-10-2010, 11:17 AM
I engage my husq Wb at around half throttle, and push the lever slowly so the blade build up slow and don't just engage the belt and make it squeal.

Jake4551
08-10-2010, 11:44 AM
Excessive wear on engine due to bogging down, and engines that I have experienced this with are the 21hp diesel in the grasshopper, 25hp kohler on a JD,and a 22hp Kawi on a Husqvarna. Now if you pick the 1-2 seconds on the belt versus 1-2 seconds on the engine I pick the belt.
It is also important to note the size of the decks, I am talking about 60 inch decks, not 48 inch decks, which take a lot less juice to start.

JD, certain Wright mowers advise full throttle, Bad Boy doesn't specify. Had a 316, 17HP onan 2200 hours, never replaced a belt or did anything to the PTO.
Rolling starts all the time, I am not using zero turns to pull up and just do one lawn, I am using them to mow acres around large farms to which I go from section to section. When crossing a road I also prefer to turn off the PTO to prevent all that excess crap from the road blowing in my face. I don't come to a complete stop and then engage the PTO.
If you believe in half throttle to spool up the deck, then I assume you are throttling down before shutting off the deck.
If you want to spool up at lower RPM's that is fine, but I don't believe that in the end a hard case can be made for it, especially with the varying manufactures instructions, and the improvement of belts. Really how many belts has anyone changed in 2000 hours of use?

Jake4551
08-10-2010, 12:34 PM
What?!?!

Do you know the number one reason for snapped deck belts?

Anyone [dealer/owner/operator] who's been in this business for any reasonable amount of time will tell you, you should NEVER engage the PTO at full throttle!

:hammerhead:


Checked Ferris manual, start PTO at full throttle according to the manual. Problem with the argument is it is an absolute rather than relying on individual manufacturers specs.

jackmen
08-10-2010, 02:01 PM
we actually recommend that engine is ran at full throttle all the time that engine does not start making good torque till it is about the 3300 and it peaks around 3500 to 3600 and as far as the choke issue that is normal that engine does not have a starting jet in the carb



Taylor Prince
Service Manager
link to 2010 service manual below
http://www.badboymowers.com/view/service-manuals

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Mentink
To: taylor.prince@badboymowers.com
Cc: bill@badboymowers.com
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 5:00 PM
Subject: New Mower Lightning Z 60" 26 HP

I purchased a Lightning Z 60” with the 26 HP Kawasaki liquid cooled. I truly love the mower. Tremendous power and it is a mowing machine. Did have a question about the mower, specifically how the motor runs.

Unless the engine is set at full throttle , if you put a load on it stumbles and dies. If it is at full throttle it runs great. If it is at 2300 rpms it will die if you engage the mower deck or push the hydros to move the machine. This seems a little unusual for this big of motor. It almost like it is set too lean in the carb at low speed. (apparently no setting in the carb per the manual). If it does die and it is warm or even hot you have to choke the engine to get it going. Again unusual and surprising.

I just sold a gravely zero turn that had a 23 HP Kohler ( 4 years old) that didn’t have any of these characteristics. If it was barely above an idle it would start the blades and move forward quite easily. Have you had these issues with other 26 LC Kawasaki’s ? Is it unique to this motor? Bad adjustment in the carb?

Seems lacking in power below full throttle. Due to a lack of dealers in Mid Missouri, I bought it from a St. Louis dealer about 100 miles away. Just wondering if you could shed any light on it so I could avoid taking it to the dealer.

It has a total of 7 hours on it right now.



Jack Mentink
10350 Vineyard Drive
Rolla, MO 65401
5733688460

Grubrunner
08-10-2010, 02:07 PM
Not very smart to post your personal details on a public forum.

bradseabridge
08-10-2010, 02:09 PM
damn grub is a negative nancy today.