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Chilehead
08-10-2010, 11:31 PM
I have a neighbor behind me that's truly a PITA. When I came home from work today, I find out from my wife that some surveyors were out pounding stakes around the perimeter of his property. The guy is going to be putting up a fence. Fine. The problem is that I have a drainage issue that requires me to raise my backyard.
The neighbor's fence is to run paralel to my rear property line, but the line is at the lowest point of the yard--exactly where I need to trench to lay my footer for a retaining wall. The neighbor won't budge on moving the fence towards his house by a mere 12", but then again it's the property line.
Here's the real kicker. The retaining wall will need to be built with a set-back vs. a vertical face. Even if I was to build a wall, my backyard would be too shallow (front to back) to meet code. What to do?:confused:

JB1
08-10-2010, 11:35 PM
money talks.

bradseabridge
08-10-2010, 11:48 PM
flood his backyard once then talk to him.

Chilehead
08-11-2010, 12:46 AM
money talks.
Yes, but only with some. This guy REALLY won't budge.
flood his backyard once then talk to him.

This would get me in a heap of trouble. The way the law works here is if I cause a situation to damage/inconvenience another, I am 100% liable. This guy knows this, and is why he is doing this. He likes to get people P.O.'ed. You should see the stakes on the sides of his property. They appear to cross over the property boundaries of his other neighbors. If it's one thing you don't do, it's earn a spot on the black list of a pyromaniac.:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

ajslands
08-11-2010, 12:56 AM
Get some ground clear and write your competitions initials it his yard!


Why don't you build the wall before he puts his fence up?
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Chilehead
08-11-2010, 01:01 AM
Get some ground clear and write your competitions initials it his yard!


Why don't you build the wall before he puts his fence up?
Posted via Mobile Device

I'd love to build the wall now. However, it is a felony in Georgia to remove stakes placed by a surveyor. This includes both the metal pins and any wooden stakes/markers placed above ground. The stakes are directly where I want to put my footer. The fence is going up within days.

bc3xx0
08-11-2010, 01:05 AM
Check your codes. Here, if you build a fence and both neighbors are not sharing it, it has to be at least 12" off the property line. If both neighbors are sharing it, it can be on the property line.

ajslands
08-11-2010, 01:19 AM
I'd love to build the wall now. However, it is a felony in Georgia to remove stakes placed by a surveyor. This includes both the metal pins and any wooden stakes/markers placed above ground. The stakes are directly where I want to put my footer. The fence is going up within days.

Hey those stakes will make good rebar!
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Fireguy97
08-11-2010, 01:34 AM
I'd love to build the wall now. However, it is a felony in Georgia to remove stakes placed by a surveyor. This includes both the metal pins and any wooden stakes/markers placed above ground. The stakes are directly where I want to put my footer. The fence is going up within days.

Like others have said, check your codes. If you're looking to build a wall like that, you should already be checking codes.

Here, a fence and a retaining wall has to be on your side of the property line, not on the property line. Here you have to allow your neighbor the ability to place a fence or wall on his/her property without the hinderance of your wall or fence.

Here, if the neighors fence is on the property line, and if I want to put up a fence on my side of my property line, his fence comes down, and he pays.

Mick

Chilehead
08-11-2010, 02:03 AM
Here, if the neighors fence is on the property line, and if I want to put up a fence on my side of my property line, his fence comes down, and he pays.

Mick

I sure wish it was like that here. The law is set up where building on the property line is permissible. Technically, he's building directly on the easement (stormwater flow) and there is no code to stop him because of how the land is zoned.

Chilehead
08-11-2010, 10:39 AM
Well, it turns out there may be some provisions in my favor after all......I just got off the phone with the county's Stormwater Management Dept. The guy I talked to feels I may be able to get my neighbor to move his fence back by up to 4 feet if it interferes with stormwater runoff. I explained that I would have a likely flooding issue if a fence was erected on the property line. At the very notion of this statement, the Dept's guy agreed that any structure/impediment that could restrict the flow of runoff should be avoided. Alternatively, he also stated that he can't force someone to not build a fence (unless adjacent to government property) but the law could be used if damages result from its construction.
I am supposed to receive a call from him later today after he reviews the plat lines and/or sends someone out to determine if my neighbor is about to commit a violation. If all rules in favor of my neighbor, I'll probably call the EPA and contest that runoff restriction may lead to some species of frog/insect will have to suffer the loss of water which will disrupt their reproduction which will disrupt the food chain which will disrupt the ecosystem in the wetlands 3000 feet away. Like my old signature said: "Don't mess with the Chile, or you'll get burnt."

White Gardens
08-11-2010, 05:48 PM
I want to see Pics.

SchnabelLawnCare
08-11-2010, 08:22 PM
Just subbing for pics and to see how this one plays out!
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Chilehead
08-11-2010, 09:33 PM
He doesn't want it stopped, he just wants his neighbor to use common courtesy and move it back 12 inches, seriously only ASS HOLES would have a problem with that. Sounds like his neighbor is the one with the small ****** not him.

Exactly. My main concern is not the fence per se, but the flooding issue it is likely to create if placed where it may very well go.

yardguy28
08-11-2010, 09:47 PM
I have a neighbor behind me that's truly a PITA. When I came home from work today, I find out from my wife that some surveyors were out pounding stakes around the perimeter of his property. The guy is going to be putting up a fence. Fine. The problem is that I have a drainage issue that requires me to raise my backyard.
The neighbor's fence is to run paralel to my rear property line, but the line is at the lowest point of the yard--exactly where I need to trench to lay my footer for a retaining wall. The neighbor won't budge on moving the fence towards his house by a mere 12", but then again it's the property line.
Here's the real kicker. The retaining wall will need to be built with a set-back vs. a vertical face. Even if I was to build a wall, my backyard would be too shallow (front to back) to meet code. What to do?:confused:

don't know what you can do.

as long as he's putting his fence on his property there isn't much you can do. i can't say i blame him either. it's his property and his fence. i'm sure your neighbor will think you are a major d bag for talking to the gov. about this, trying to force him to move his fence. thats what i think as well. let the man be, have his fence where he wants it.

come up with some other solution to your problem other than trying to find loop holes that will allow you to dictate where he puts his fence.

clydebusa
08-11-2010, 09:52 PM
Pictures or it doesn't exist!

dunk50
08-11-2010, 10:58 PM
Yes, but only with some. This guy REALLY won't budge.


This would get me in a heap of trouble. The way the law works here is if I cause a situation to damage/inconvenience another, I am 100% liable. This guy knows this, and is why he is doing this. He likes to get people P.O.'ed. You should see the stakes on the sides of his property. They appear to cross over the property boundaries of his other neighbors. If it's one thing you don't do, it's earn a spot on the black list of a pyromaniac.:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

Seems that the highlighted sentence should work both ways!!

grassman177
08-11-2010, 11:18 PM
I sure wish it was like that here. The law is set up where building on the property line is permissible. Technically, he's building directly on the easement (stormwater flow) and there is no code to stop him because of how the land is zoned.

would not fly here that way, sorry you live in ghetto georgia like that chili.

yardguy28
08-12-2010, 05:48 PM
I sure wish it was like that here. The law is set up where building on the property line is permissible. Technically, he's building directly on the easement (stormwater flow) and there is no code to stop him because of how the land is zoned.

if he's building on the easement then he is NOT building on his property line. he is over his property line and then you'd be ok to try and get something done about it.

people's property does NOT include easement. easement is public property. and by law you can not build on it.

but he can and should feel free to build his fence on his property line if he so wishes.

ajslands
08-12-2010, 06:46 PM
both ways!!


That's what she said!
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Chilehead
08-13-2010, 10:26 AM
Many of you do not get the point of this thread. To set the record straight, I have no problem if this guy wants to build a fence on his property line: it's his property. My problem is that when one obstructs an obstacle in the dead center of an easement (i.e. swale), flooding/excess erosion will result.
My original plan was to raise my backyard(retained by a wall) and install an underground drainage system. None of my reworking would cross the easement line. However, the guy who wants to build a fence does not encroach on my property, but CLEARLY encroaches well past the easement line (by several feet).

tdr6874
08-13-2010, 10:44 AM
so...

is his fence on the property line?

is the property line where his starts and your begins or is there a 6,8 or 10 foot gap between the two property lines?

we have utility easments and they can be built upon, but for the most part our property lines are shared between two adjacent properties, very few have an easment in between the two.

i would ask him about your plans, if he's a d about it let him build his fence...the next day his fence was done i would have my surveyor out there and have him run a property line for me...there better not be a drop of cement footing or a 4x4 near my property line...there should be no damage to my sod either with the digging for the footings on his new fence...

if his fence is put up and there is an easment between the two yards, i would contact hoa and make sure that his fence does not impeed any through traffic in the easment

Chilehead
08-13-2010, 01:09 PM
so...

is his fence on the property line?

is the property line where his starts and your begins or is there a 6,8 or 10 foot gap between the two property lines?

we have utility easments and they can be built upon, but for the most part our property lines are shared between two adjacent properties, very few have an easment in between the two.

i would ask him about your plans, if he's a d about it let him build his fence...the next day his fence was done i would have my surveyor out there and have him run a property line for me...there better not be a drop of cement footing or a 4x4 near my property line...there should be no damage to my sod either with the digging for the footings on his new fence...

if his fence is put up and there is an easment between the two yards, i would contact hoa and make sure that his fence does not impeed any through traffic in the easment

Yes, his fence is to be placed directly on the line.

tdr6874
08-13-2010, 02:46 PM
well most fences with post are between 6-8" wide...and they are never completely plumb....he better build it in a foot or so as to not encroch into or upon your lot...your property line is infinatley thin...there is no giving here...you are completely on your lot or not...there is well its mostly on my lot and just a little bit on your lot...kinda like your pregnanet or not...there is no kinda sorta pregnanet

in texas if a fence is errected and goes uncontested for 10 years that becomes the new property line....you should get a survey every 8-9 years to be certain there is no encrochment into your lot/land

yardguy28
08-13-2010, 04:11 PM
Yes, his fence is to be placed directly on the line.

if his fence is to be placed directly on his property line then you sir need to shut up and find a different way to solve your problem.

you can not expect someone to care about your flooding problem and do anything about it when it envolves them putting a fence on there own property.

asking someone who is already putting a fenc up on there own property to move it back is a very inapproriate request. if he was putting it on the easement past his property line that would be a different story.

i hope he holds his ground and gets his fence put up where he wants it on his property.

Chilehead
08-13-2010, 04:36 PM
i hope he holds his ground and gets his fence put up where he wants it on his property.

........so long as he stays within the confines of the law. Nick from Stormwater Mgmt. just called me about an hour ago. We spoke for about 20 minutes discussing what is legal and what is not. Under no circumstance can anyone erect a structure (fence; shed) over an easement boundary if said structure's placement restricts stormwater runoff/flow. This goes for me, you, anyone if you live in Henry County, GA.
I was told that once fence construction begins to call back and have an inspector dispatched. If the inspector determines that any flow restriction can occur, the placement of the fence must be modified. Concurrently, if I waited for the fence to be built and then called out an inspector, the fence could then be torn down at the owner's expense, my complaint, and the County's enforcement. It looks like I win, but will have to wait and see what happens.

bradseabridge
08-13-2010, 04:38 PM
That's what I like to hear, if he's being a dick about it stick it to him.

tdr6874
08-13-2010, 05:04 PM
if his fence is to be placed directly on his property line then you sir need to shut up and find a different way to solve your problem.

you can not expect someone to care about your flooding problem and do anything about it when it envolves them putting a fence on there own property.

asking someone who is already putting a fenc up on there own property to move it back is a very inapproriate request. if he was putting it on the easement past his property line that would be a different story.

i hope he holds his ground and gets his fence put up where he wants it on his property.

the invisible property line is thinner than a sheet of paper....i dont know how directly on the line would not be in both properties

yardguy28
08-13-2010, 07:57 PM
........so long as he stays within the confines of the law. Nick from Stormwater Mgmt. just called me about an hour ago. We spoke for about 20 minutes discussing what is legal and what is not. Under no circumstance can anyone erect a structure (fence; shed) over an easement boundary if said structure's placement restricts stormwater runoff/flow. This goes for me, you, anyone if you live in Henry County, GA.
I was told that once fence construction begins to call back and have an inspector dispatched. If the inspector determines that any flow restriction can occur, the placement of the fence must be modified. Concurrently, if I waited for the fence to be built and then called out an inspector, the fence could then be torn down at the owner's expense, my complaint, and the County's enforcement. It looks like I win, but will have to wait and see what happens.

but you keep saying the fence is going on his property line so it's not going over the easment therefore he is untouchable.

make up your mind. your comments are suggesting he's putting the fence up on the easment.

either it's going up on his property or the easment, which is it. if it's his property you can't touch him. i have a client who's neighbhor put some concrete slab on his property line and it causes all the water to flood his backyard every time it rains. there isn't anything that can be done because it's on the property line NOT the easment.

the invisible property line is thinner than a sheet of paper....i dont know how directly on the line would not be in both properties

well the fence would actually be just inside the property line. which would make him more untouchable. you can't make a neighbor move a fence that is on his property just because you can't figure a way to keep the water out of your yard.

shooterm
08-13-2010, 08:04 PM
How would a fence restrict stormwater if its in the low spot of swale? Stupid spot to put it in but still would do nothing but slow it which is actually a benefit to most stormwater problems.

shooterm
08-13-2010, 08:10 PM
Also somehow it sounds like your not addressing the stormwater problem only pushing it somewhere else which is your neighbors new problem, hence fence. If you live in any neighborhood its better to be civil and discuss problems like this between the two parties. We used to work on this all the time and it usually came down to two people with nothing better to do then butt heads.

cgaengineer
08-13-2010, 08:27 PM
Let me fill you in yardguy (for some reason you like to stir up chit). You can build a fence on an easement, you can't build a dwelling, but a fence is not a problem. If the easement is a drainage easement (swale) and the construction of the fence impedes flow (most fences will...even chain link at some point will hold enough lawn debris to backup and create a maintenance problem for that adjoiner) than said person is in violation...in GA they take storm water very seriously...they even have a trout stamp on every catch basin that leads to a stream.

Chilehead, you can hire a surveyor to come out and verify your/his property line but most likely the line is staked as the original survey calls...they don't just get out of truck with a total station and start blasting in stakes (I know you probably already know this). Also know that a retaining wall or a driveway can be constructed right on the property line if you wish...you can't build your house on property line (without a variance, and even than probably not).

Most of the time property owners set fence at least 6-12" off property line to make sure they are all the way on their own property. I have seen fences where both parties build a fence 6" off property line and leave a strip of grass that can never be maintained. Georgia law also prohibits shared fences...yes people still do it...I did it, but the reason behind this is because of adverse possession laws...like another poster said, fences can become property lines at some point in time, not likely in this situation, but on a large tracts of old land missing all property corners (which very well may have been trees, rocks or some other junk a surveyor used to mark the corners 50-75 years ago) it is more likely. Working with my father in his land surveying business for 13 years I have yet to see any case where adverse possession was an argument...even when the adjoiner knew that a dwelling/fence/house/barn/shed was built over property line.
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cgaengineer
08-13-2010, 08:32 PM
Oh another thing chiliehead, if the swale is causing an erosion problem on your property you should make the county fix it...you cannot divert water onto another persons property...even if you are the county, this is the reason for lots having swales/rim ditches and diversion ditches between them so not to flood your adjoiner. What water falls on your property in most cases should stay on your property and/or run into a storm drain where it is than stored in a detention pond.
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Chilehead
08-13-2010, 11:38 PM
Oh another thing chiliehead, if the swale is causing an erosion problem on your property you should make the county fix it...you cannot divert water onto another persons property...even if you are the county, this is the reason for lots having swales/rim ditches and diversion ditches between them so not to flood your adjoiner. What water falls on your property in most cases should stay on your property and/or run into a storm drain where it is than stored in a detention pond.
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Good post, and the one before it. Another fact is that the builder who put in the houses behind mine screwed up royally. When my wife spoke to the surveyors who were pounding in the stakes, they had mentioned that the street my neighbor lives on wasn't surveyed properly: it was built 5 feet too much to the east (towards my property). The builder never checked this, and right then it was too late. Nick at Stormwater Mgmt. said that front/rear easements were spaced 20' on center with side easements spaced 10' on center. Well, the easement behind me is spaced 5' on my side and 15' on his, but of course they had to meet the minimum 25' depth requirement for the backyard so they just sodded over the easement area on his property to mask the surveying error. Originally the land was wooded, and my 5' still are. The other qualm I have is that the copy of the plat I have shows my property at 125' deep. This was in 2002. The current plat shows my property at 120' deep. I thought this was impossible. Guess what? All of my neighbors on my street have similar discrepancies too. After inquiring with Pln. & Zng, they said there really isn't anything I (or my neighbors) can do about it. Their reason is, "Well, there must have been a mistake with your property, hence the discrepancy". What a crock. A lawyer friend of mine agreed that it would be hard to prove that my original plat is authentic as it isn't a certified copy. If taken to court, it would not hold.
Also, we just got soaked tonight. The rain was strong enough to wash out one of the stakes--and I'm not touching it. I'm taking a picture instead.

cgaengineer
08-14-2010, 12:07 AM
The original plat is sitting at the Henry County Courthouse and the surveyor has the same copy with the same time and date stamp so there is your proof. You also pay a title company when you purchased your home that verified you purchased "x" amount of land that had no liens or was anyway legally bound. Even if the survey was altered after the fact it would not contain the original stamp where the plat was approved by Henry County. The plat at the courthouse is the legally binding document.

if I were you I would go to the courthouse and pull the survey of the land prior to the subdivision being built, then the subdivision plat and finally your lot plat if there is one. All the bearings and distances should match up. If you need some help I maybe able to pull it up on the computer if Henry County has their plats indexed...not all counties do yet. We pay a subscription to the website gsccca.org which allows viewing and printing of recorded deed, plats and surveys...I would need your subdivision name and your lot number.
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cgaengineer
08-14-2010, 12:09 AM
Oh, the subdivision plat should also show the drainage easements...make sure they match what your lot survey says.
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Chilehead
08-14-2010, 02:44 AM
The original plat is sitting at the Henry County Courthouse and the surveyor has the same copy with the same time and date stamp so there is your proof. You also pay a title company when you purchased your home that verified you purchased "x" amount of land that had no liens or was anyway legally bound. Even if the survey was altered after the fact it would not contain the original stamp where the plat was approved by Henry County. The plat at the courthouse is the legally binding document.

if I were you I would go to the courthouse and pull the survey of the land prior to the subdivision being built, then the subdivision plat and finally your lot plat if there is one. All the bearings and distances should match up. If you need some help I maybe able to pull it up on the computer if Henry County has their plats indexed...not all counties do yet. We pay a subscription to the website gsccca.org which allows viewing and printing of recorded deed, plats and surveys...I would need your subdivision name and your lot number.
Posted via Mobile Device

Thanks for the help. I'll PM you with the lot number soon. I did check the Henry County site and they have some fairly accurate GIS info but they post a disclaimer saying that even though it's to scale, it's not meant to replace the accuracy of a plat.

yardguy28
08-14-2010, 10:06 AM
Let me fill you in yardguy (for some reason you like to stir up chit). You can build a fence on an easement, you can't build a dwelling, but a fence is not a problem. If the easement is a drainage easement (swale) and the construction of the fence impedes flow (most fences will...even chain link at some point will hold enough lawn debris to backup and create a maintenance problem for that adjoiner) than said person is in violation...in GA they take storm water very seriously...they even have a trout stamp on every catch basin that leads to a stream.Posted via Mobile Device

so we are back to the fence being built on the easement?

i'm not trying to stir up sheot. there hasn't been a clean answer as to where the fence is going since the thread started.

here are my comments for both.....

if the fence is on the neighbhors property (that does NOT include easement) then there isn't a thing that can be done for chilihead to get the fence moved back.

if the fence is going up on the easement then yes there is something that can be done because easement is public property.

thats not stirring up sheot. just a fact that if its on his own property no body can tell another person what to do on there property.

Chilehead
08-14-2010, 11:13 AM
so we are back to the fence being built on the easement?

i'm not trying to stir up sheot. there hasn't been a clean answer as to where the fence is going since the thread started.

here are my comments for both.....

if the fence is on the neighbhors property (that does NOT include easement) then there isn't a thing that can be done for chilihead to get the fence moved back.

if the fence is going up on the easement then yes there is something that can be done because easement is public property.

thats not stirring up sheot. just a fact that if its on his own property no body can tell another person what to do on there property.

In Georgia, it is common to have several invisible boundaries cross each other, as is the case here. The private property line crosses the public use line. We also have areas where the zip code, county line, municipality line, school district line and phone area code line simultaneously intersect. I think it's confusing, but it is what it is. Here's a golden nugget for you: quit coming off like a hard-azz know-it-all and you'll quit getting rebuttals like those posted here. You're not in a competition and as long as you behave like you are, you'll end up making enemies and not friends.

cgaengineer
08-14-2010, 11:16 AM
He's been going at it with me in another thread about edging.

I got your PM and I will see if I can locate your plat this weekend, if not it will be first thing this week.
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Chilehead
08-14-2010, 12:23 PM
He's been going at it with me in another thread about edging.

I got your PM and I will see if I can locate your plat this weekend, if not it will be first thing this week.
Posted via Mobile Device

I really appreciate that, sincerely.

yardguy28
08-14-2010, 06:47 PM
In Georgia, it is common to have several invisible boundaries cross each other, as is the case here. The private property line crosses the public use line. We also have areas where the zip code, county line, municipality line, school district line and phone area code line simultaneously intersect. I think it's confusing, but it is what it is. Here's a golden nugget for you: quit coming off like a hard-azz know-it-all and you'll quit getting rebuttals like those posted here. You're not in a competition and as long as you behave like you are, you'll end up making enemies and not friends.

send all the rebuttals you want. i read the posts and call it like it is. and who said i'm looking to make any friends???

really do fail to see how i'm acting like a hard @ss know it all. all i said was if the fence is going on his property there isnt' anything that can be done but if it's going up on the easement then there is something that can be done. i've never heard of someone's private property line crossing a public property line. doesn't seem legal to me but i don't really know.