PDA

View Full Version : I cut a mismarked telephone wire today


CAPT Stream Rotar
08-13-2010, 06:29 PM
The H/o was PISSED!


it wasn't my fault if the company doesnt mark their lines properly...

H/O had a tough time dealing with that..

but it was an old wire with what I green, red, black, yellow..
but only the green and red looked like they went into the house.. after some stupid carry through port..

I tried like a mo fo to find where we cut it and couldn't.. clearly it was mismarked...which pissed me off...


anyone here made these kind of splices?

please help.

btw the old lady had a miscaraige...eh....maybe next time..

irritation
08-13-2010, 06:39 PM
I always use my locator for phone and cable drops after they mark them. Around here you have to allow for 3' on either side of the mark.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-13-2010, 06:44 PM
how do you hook up wire tracker to a live telephone line?

this one I cut did have a wire with it..is that a tracer wire i guess?

irritation
08-13-2010, 06:48 PM
Inductive clamp

Wet_Boots
08-13-2010, 06:48 PM
Sympathies to the missus, Rotar. :(

Some Sprinkler Guy
08-13-2010, 06:51 PM
I have fixed them many times with multistrand. Its not shielded but I figure it won't matter for just the splice. Beats having a mad customer.

Homeowners that get mad about stuff like that are IDIOTS.

Sorry to hear about the wife man.
Posted via Mobile Device

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-13-2010, 06:59 PM
thanks guys..

I'm pretty beat up...trying to stay positive..

Boots are you familiar with those two wires? red green?

am i off in saying that its a simple splice and reconnect to the terminal and we are all set?

thats what it seems like...

Wet_Boots
08-13-2010, 07:05 PM
Phone wires should be easy to deal with. I think you have red and green, then yellow and black for a second line. There has to be a junction box outside, and from there you can connect a locater, after first unplugging the house. That lets you work from the house back to the street.

Some Sprinkler Guy
08-13-2010, 07:05 PM
thanks guys..

I'm pretty beat up...trying to stay positive..

Boots are you familiar with those two wires? red green?

am i off in saying that its a simple splice and reconnect to the terminal and we are all set?

thats what it seems like...

The red and green is nornally line 1. The others are for addtl. Lines.

At least that's the way it is around here.
Posted via Mobile Device

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-13-2010, 07:12 PM
boots/sprinkguy, thanks peeps....

To me thats what it seemed like...There were two poles that it seemed like the lines should of went through, and they jumped into another terminal....that connected into the house...

Some Sprinkler Guy
08-13-2010, 07:18 PM
Oh and uh if the phone rings while your splicing I think it sends 110v. It will wake you up for sure.
Posted via Mobile Device

1idejim
08-13-2010, 07:21 PM
how do you hook up wire tracker to a live telephone line?

this one I cut did have a wire with it..is that a tracer wire i guess?

i'm so sorry about the baby ed, so very sorry.

you use the end off of a line cord with the rj11 jack adapter, strip an end to connect the 521 to and insert the rj11 into the modular jack in the interface.

first you have to disconnect the line cord to the house, replace it with yours and locate as usual.

another way is to connect to the b-box or interface ground with the 521/pro-700 (you do this the same for live power) and locate normally.

if you are really congested you can run the cable sheath, connect to the cable with a self piercing clip or (best) strip a piece of the shield back.never connect the TDR to any phone line unless it's a spair pair at the pole.





again i'm really sorry about the baby

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-13-2010, 07:21 PM
Oh and uh if the phone rings while your splicing I think it sends 110v. It will wake you up for sure.
Posted via Mobile Device


I did know about that...I thought it was 24 V..

thats why I did not hook up the tdr or 521 to the line.....

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu321/whitehatphishphan/IMG_0742.jpg

irritation
08-13-2010, 07:23 PM
Inductive clamp is much easier.

Wet_Boots
08-13-2010, 07:24 PM
90 volts for ringing. Sure to rattle your teeth. Wear gloves.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-13-2010, 07:32 PM
Man the ground clamp wasn't hooked up to anything..

WTF......

im clueless Jim as to what where to hook stuff up....

I really hate being such a moron...My reading comphrension is sh!t..always has been..

I suck.

1idejim
08-13-2010, 07:35 PM
Inductive clamp is much easier.

i have an inductive clamp for my dynatel but not a 521.

1748khz is a lot higher freq than most couplers use 300 - 1000khz as it bleeds to everything on the site, but it is great for blind sweeps of utilities.


once you make the rj11 it's a matter of pulling one out and replacing it with yours.

Wet_Boots
08-13-2010, 07:40 PM
Once you cut the underground feed, you disconnect the feed from the house, and that gives you a dead wire to follow, once you inject your signal. This would be just as true for cable TV as it is for a phone line.

irritation
08-13-2010, 07:44 PM
not sure what that pic is all about, but it's not phone wire. looks like 14 or 12 ga. wire?

Wet_Boots
08-13-2010, 07:59 PM
it's a closeup, meshugana :hammerhead:

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-13-2010, 08:01 PM
Lol!

its what came out of the interface!

irritation
08-13-2010, 08:18 PM
Lol!

its what came out of the interface!

All phone wire I've seen is 22- 24 ga. That looks a lot bigger to me.;)

1idejim
08-13-2010, 08:18 PM
Lol!

its what came out of the interface!

twist all of the wires together since you can get to them and trace the wire, you'll need to run an extended ground wire to prevent return to ground problems.

Sprinkus
08-13-2010, 10:29 PM
If it's a shielded phone wire then I typically connect the 521 to the shield.
If there are obvious wires that are not being used then you can connect to one of them.
Always make sure and pay attention to the utility locations and where they enter the house.
If in doubt use your "witching sticks" to see if anything might possibly be in the area that you are trenching/pulling/boring.

S&MLL
08-13-2010, 11:17 PM
Phones ring at about 40-50 volts. If your line spikes to 90-110 volts you better call the phone company.

http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=4855


Use those chicklets to splice.

For cable we keep some f connectors and barrels for temp fixing the line. Never want these homeowners to loose 911 calling.

Waterlogged
08-13-2010, 11:34 PM
CAPT stream rotor Sorry to hear about your baby will say a prayer for you

Waterlogged
08-13-2010, 11:47 PM
Capt don't be to hard on yourself you will be able to find and repair the wire. I have temporarily fixed them with a little wire and wire nuts. Here if it's on private property I will call the phone Co. to fix it and I have never been charged. Actually I will call if it's off property too :laugh:

AI Inc
08-14-2010, 07:35 AM
Locator guy that subs for phone, cable told me the other day that Fios is untracable.
I can see this being a major azz ache in the coming yrs.

txgrassguy
08-14-2010, 10:29 AM
As these guys said a simple wire nut and muti-strand will easily repair most older phone lines.
I never tried wiring a jack to the 521, I simply removed the wires from the interface panel on the side of the house, connected the red to an exposed lead then grounded to an electrical socket if a copper grounding rod wasn't available. Trace to the problem then splice.
How far off of the locate did you sever the lines? I ask as 3' is usually the minimum one has to stay away from the locate to avoid paying for the splice.
In my a.o I have a much greater problem with incorrectly buried propane lines by the gas companies. Those I refuse to repair, the client has to pay for the gas company to correct. What I do in these cases is trench in a line at code approved depth so the gas line may be properly installed. And I get paid for the trenching too.

Waterlogged
08-14-2010, 11:58 AM
When I started out, years ago, we hardly ever located anything. I remember one time we cut a gas line on private property, in the back yard. We called the gas company first. That was a big mistake. They came out and said, "Yep, you cut the gas line, call a plumber". And they yanked the meter.
It was in December and the house was heated with gas. The plumber came out, same day, and fixed it. The gas company did not come out for three days to replace the meter. My boss had to put the customer up in a hotel for three days. Plumber said to call him first next time.

Kiril
08-14-2010, 02:14 PM
It amazes me how many people are suggesting a DIY phone line fix when those very same people rag on others about doing/fixing irrigation when they are not qualified. Simply astounding. :dizzy:

Wire nut and unshielded multistrand for a buried service line? Are you f'n serious? :hammerhead: Maybe for a quick temp fix that will work but certainly not a permanent one.

Out here the phone company will repair a cut phone line free of charge if the HO calls letting them know they cut it.

@capt

My condolences on your loss.

Some Sprinkler Guy
08-14-2010, 07:03 PM
It amazes me how many people are suggesting a DIY phone line fix when those very same people rag on others about doing/fixing irrigation when they are not qualified. Simply astounding. :dizzy:

Wire nut and unshielded multistrand for a buried service line? Are you f'n serious? :hammerhead: Maybe for a quick temp fix that will work but certainly not a permanent one.

Out here the phone company will repair a cut phone line free of charge if the HO calls letting them know they cut it.

@capt

My condolences on your loss.

I had one of the big phone comapnies try and charge me 150 bucks one time for a splice on a drop that was 1/2 inch deep laid right next to a sprinkler head. Yup you guessed it we go to change the head and cut the line.

After that, I swore off ever calling them again.

Hey, tell you what as soon as I can see they change their business practices, I will call them when I cut.

Until that time, I will fix their lines with what I have when I hit them. I see no problem with splices that are direct burial 3m style splices on a phone line.

Is the wire shielded where it splices and goes into the house? Seems to me the shielding would be broken there too.
Posted via Mobile Device

Cloud9Landscapes
08-15-2010, 12:54 AM
A couple of weeks ago I was installing a system on a parkway. I go to dig right next to the meter and I feel the eerie feeling of resistance with the sudden slip. Much like it feels when cutting through a thick, dry root. I Investigate and realize that I have cut through the cable line. I freaked the hell out. I investigate around the property and realized that there was no cable pulled through the conduit leading to the house. I also noticed there was a DirecTv dish on the roof. Boy was I relieved. Next time I will call 811 just so I free myself (almost) from all liability.

The line was buried with the most cheapy conduit I have ever seen. This took place in my neighborhood and when Cablevision was installing the lines in the late 70's, they used some major crap. Still do.

1idejim
08-15-2010, 01:22 AM
A couple of weeks ago I was installing a system on a parkway. I go to dig right next to the meter and I feel the eerie feeling of resistance with the sudden slip. Much like it feels when cutting through a thick, dry root. I Investigate and realize that I have cut through the cable line. I freaked the hell out. I investigate around the property and realized that there was no cable pulled through the conduit leading to the house. I also noticed there was a DirecTv dish on the roof. Boy was I relieved. Next time I will call 811 just so I free myself (almost) from all liability.

The line was buried with the most cheapy conduit I have ever seen. This took place in my neighborhood and when Cablevision was installing the lines in the late 70's, they used some major crap. Still do.

if you have any interaction with a utility you are supposed to report it.

www.usanorth.org/calaw.pdf

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-15-2010, 02:53 AM
bummer news Eddie. In the great scheme of things a pissed off moho pales in comparison. i'm bettin she has a friggin cell phone.

DanaMac
08-15-2010, 09:16 AM
I don't see how they can expect us to call for locates if we are just going to be digging up a head or two. They would have to employ one more person just to take care of my stuff. I can have myself and my guys go to 20-30 homes in a day, and there is always potential to dig up a sprinkler head. So they can either hire someone at $20k-$40k just to locate MY jobs for 8 months, or they can eat a $100 repair once in a while.

Some Sprinkler Guy
08-15-2010, 09:50 AM
I don't see how they can expect us to call for locates if we are just going to be digging up a head or two. They would have to employ one more person just to take care of my stuff. I can have myself and my guys go to 20-30 homes in a day, and there is always potential to dig up a sprinkler head. So they can either hire someone at $20k-$40k just to locate MY jobs for 8 months, or they can eat a $100 repair once in a while.

Thats my issue. I have had them tell me that I am supposed to call all repair jobs for locates before going.

That would be 12-17 Locates a day for my three crews and I am not willing to push all my jobs out 3 days all the time so that I can wait for locates. Thats not even reasonable.

So I get a call for a blown out backflow before the shut-off and I am supposed to tell them to wait three days? Yeah right.

AI Inc
08-15-2010, 09:52 AM
Not just that , but around here we have to premark are of locate. That means 2 trips to change a broken head. I dont think so.

WalkGood
08-15-2010, 11:02 AM
If the lines were buried deep enough TO CODE in the first place there would not be an issue.

1idejim
08-15-2010, 11:10 AM
I don't see how they can expect us to call for locates if we are just going to be digging up a head or two. They would have to employ one more person just to take care of my stuff. I can have myself and my guys go to 20-30 homes in a day, and there is always potential to dig up a sprinkler head. So they can either hire someone at $20k-$40k just to locate MY jobs for 8 months, or they can eat a $100 repair once in a while.

Thats my issue. I have had them tell me that I am supposed to call all repair jobs for locates before going.

That would be 12-17 Locates a day for my three crews and I am not willing to push all my jobs out 3 days all the time so that I can wait for locates. Thats not even reasonable.

So I get a call for a blown out backflow before the shut-off and I am supposed to tell them to wait three days? Yeah right.

Not just that , but around here we have to premark are of locate. That means 2 trips to change a broken head. I dont think so.

you guys are right but it is what it is, dial before you dig was developed to prevent damage to private property (the facilities conduit, cable, equipment is considered private property) and for public safety.

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/georgia-power-lineman-dies-591975.html

if you followed the letter of the law, the three of you wouldn't be doing repairs yourselves, you'd have a full time job with calls, marking addresses and doing the paperwork for your protection.

pete kills me, traveling around Europe with one of the prettier women on the rock and he still is able to check in here..............

Kiril
08-15-2010, 11:39 AM
If the lines were buried deep enough TO CODE in the first place there would not be an issue.

Funny you say that. I asked one of the telco linemen out here what the code was on burial depth for phone lines, and he said there is no code. I do however agree that if a phone line is buried right next to an existing sprinkler, then the telco is responsible for repairing any breaks on their dime. It's one thing to utilize existing trenches for wire runs, but when I see wire run right next to a sprinkler (landscape lighting is the most common that I see) many very dirty words come flying out of my mouth.

Even Cut Lawn Care
08-15-2010, 11:51 AM
If the lines were buried deep enough TO CODE in the first place there would not be an issue.

In Missouri there is NO code as to how deep phone or TV has to be burried. My area is very rocky and I have cut phone lines as shallow as 2 inches. The contractos just get it deep enogh that it cant been seen and call it good.

hoskm01
08-15-2010, 11:54 AM
I don't see how they can expect us to call for locates if we are just going to be digging up a head or two. They would have to employ one more person just to take care of my stuff. I can have myself and my guys go to 20-30 homes in a day, and there is always potential to dig up a sprinkler head. So they can either hire someone at $20k-$40k just to locate MY jobs for 8 months, or they can eat a $100 repair once in a while.
I seem to recall, last year, in CO, that they made an amendment to the "Call before you dig" law (rule?) that said routine irrigation and lawn repairs/work were no longer required to be located.

DanaMac
08-15-2010, 12:07 PM
I seem to recall, last year, in CO, that they made an amendment to the "Call before you dig" law (rule?) that said routine irrigation and lawn repairs/work were no longer required to be located.

Sweet. Where do i find that so I can print it out?

DanaMac
08-15-2010, 12:10 PM
pete kills me, traveling around Europe with one of the prettier women on the rock and he still is able to check in here..............

You've got your eye on his daughter, don'tcha? :laugh:

Wet_Boots
08-15-2010, 12:11 PM
If the lines were buried deep enough TO CODE in the first place there would not be an issue.I seem to luck out as relates to phone lines. They always seem to be deep enough to be out of easy reach. Cable TV is another matter.

Ever see the cable TV installs in neighborhoods with underground utilities, in that time period before boring missiles came into use? You'd see where they rock-sawed the street, to drop in a cable, and pave over it.

DanaMac
08-15-2010, 12:12 PM
In Missouri there is NO code as to how deep phone or TV has to be burried. My area is very rocky and I have cut phone lines as shallow as 2 inches. The contractos just get it deep enogh that it cant been seen and call it good.

I've seen cable installers lay the cable on the ground after it was raked out, and just had the sod lay directly on top.

I have seen aerators puncture both phone and cable lines.

CA Green
08-15-2010, 12:17 PM
Did a lanscape renovation a few years back where phone line was laid on the ground just before they rolled the sod. Need less to say it was probably the HO or shady contractor. For new construction (in CA) no code for low voltage, however all new construction they go 18". The renovations are usually nightmares.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
08-15-2010, 12:21 PM
Where they have a tri-party arrangement, the phone and cable and electric all comes in by way of a single trench, that is at least 18 inches deep.

DanaMac
08-15-2010, 12:28 PM
Seriously, I do understand the need for calling in for locates. But realistically there is no way I am having 20-30 homes a day called in for what may or may not need digging. If I'm sitting in the office all day coordinating this crap, or hiring someone else to do it, my rates go up and I'm already on the high end for my area.

Quite often when I call for locates, only phone and cable get located. The main utilities don't bother showing up half the time.

One little story. I was working on an install many moons ago, before I was on my own. And one of the landscape guys was hammering in the 12" stake that holds the metal edging in place that is between the grass and rock. As he was hammering in the stake, he hit the electric that fed the house. Knocked the sh!t out of him, went to the hospital, and was OK. But the grade had changed over the years before they got there, and the electric was now less than 12" deep.

1idejim
08-15-2010, 02:55 PM
You've got your eye on his daughter, don'tcha? :laugh:

you subtle dog you, it's all about the eye dude :) jealous bastards all of you :laugh: i think that pretty women should be made aware that their beauty enhances the lives of others, and by golly i'm gonna tell 'em.

as far as the depth of laterals and minimum cover requirements for low voltage utilities goes, we're not going to get anything in writing to help the trade in respect to liability.

it's to your advantage to own a locator of some sort and learn to use it well, the 521/pro-700 is ok for all around locating but they use a 1748khz signal which can bleed to other paths easily. if you are in a congested area, locate the deepest utilities first and check depth both ways to verify the utility.

i have had very few damages due to my locating all usa markings that are done by others.

CA Green
08-15-2010, 03:27 PM
I bought a used RD from ex-wifes company (she works for a private locating company, hence how we met 12 yrs ago). Never liked the 521, nor tried the 700. Dynatel is nice too.
Posted via Mobile Device

1idejim
08-15-2010, 03:50 PM
I bought a used RD from ex-wifes company (she works for a private locating company, hence how we met 12 yrs ago). Never liked the 521, nor tried the 700. Dynatel is nice too.
Posted via Mobile Device

radio detection is the most popular unit for full time users.

i like my dynatel 573 dl a lot, it's just useful period.

my most used is a tempo tr4110 catv drop locator, it locates peak with a good signal and is handy as a shirt pocket.

you must trace wire paths to find valves?

CA Green
08-16-2010, 12:34 AM
I used to, now it's about every other month. Other LS contractors call me for their problems. Never advertised it. Usually pull out metal detector first to give them sh&t... "I'm paying him how much for this?!" lol only a few contractors here have the 521 (like 5 maybe).
Posted via Mobile Device

1idejim
08-16-2010, 01:43 AM
I used to, now it's about every other month. Other LS contractors call me for their problems. Never advertised it. Usually pull out metal detector first to give them sh&t... "I'm paying him how much for this?!" lol only a few contractors here have the 521 (like 5 maybe).
Posted via Mobile Device

why don't you like the 521/pro-700 (they're similar and i have both)?

do you have the rd user manual? i think i do

irrig8r
08-16-2010, 02:50 AM
my most used is a tempo tr4110 catv drop locator, it locates peak with a good signal and is handy as a shirt pocket.


Can't seem to find that here... http://www.tempo-textron.com/prod_subcat.cfm?cat=800

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-16-2010, 02:53 AM
pete kills me, traveling around Europe with one of the prettier women on the rock and he still is able to check in here..............

She sleeps later than I do. i'm using you guys to kill time alittle in the morning with coffee.

We are having a blast though. Gottalove those cask beers. Stockholm was beautiful and the Vasa Museum was spectacular if you love old sailing war ships.

CA Green
08-16-2010, 04:19 AM
1idejim - I had better results with the RD. Each machine has its own "personallity", just found her sweet spot. The 521 was the first machine I used though. Never tried the 700.
Posted via Mobile Device

1idejim
08-16-2010, 08:28 AM
Can't seem to find that here... http://www.tempo-textron.com/prod_subcat.cfm?cat=800

it's been out of production for awhile, you can find them often on ebay though.

they're similar to the 501 with a lower frequency and peak antenna, you can run it with one eye tied behind your back.

i was able to get a pdf manual from a sweet lady named veronica parks at tempo, she's the go to person imo at tempo.

hoskm01
08-16-2010, 10:07 AM
Sweet. Where do i find that so I can print it out?



Peep page 1. The changes are BOLDED as "ROUTINE EXCAVATION"



"EXCAVATION"
SHALL NOT INCLUDE ROUTINE MAINTENANCE ON EXISTING PLANTED
LANDSCAPES.....


...."ROUTINE MAINTENANCE" MEANS A REGULAR ACTIVITY THAT
HAPPENS AT LEAST ONCE PER YEAR ON AN EXISTING PLANTED LANDSCAPE IF
EARTH IS NOT DISTURBED AT A DEPTH OF MORE THAN TWELVE INCHES BY
NONMECHANICAL MEANS OR FOUR INCHES BY MECHANICAL MEANS AND IF
THE ACTIVITIES ARE NOT INTENDED TO PERMANENTLY LESSEN THE GROUND
COVER OR LOWER THE EXISTING GROUND CONTOURS. MECHANICAL
EQUIPMENT USED FOR ROUTINE MAINTENANCE TASKS SHALL BE DEFINED AS
AERATORS, HAND-HELD ROTOTILLERS, SOIL INJECTION NEEDLES, LAWN
EDGERS, OVERSEEDERS, AND HAND TOOLS.



Looks like you need to dig with your bare hands past 4 inches to stay safe... At least the phone line at 1/2", you are covered on.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-18-2010, 07:13 AM
The Verizion Repair guy had a dynatell, fault locator..wicked cool..Great tool...

He let me use it for a second..They totally marked it in the wrong area...about 20 feet away from the spray paint..We Own nothing...

The digsafe company are the people that mark Verizion's stuff...
Verizion repairs there f ups..


it feels good.

I hopefully can trace the telephone wire next time...

AI Inc
08-18-2010, 07:15 AM
On Target do the locating down there too Cappy?

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-18-2010, 07:08 PM
yes they do ai inc.

we call them

OFF TARGET

1idejim
08-18-2010, 07:20 PM
yes they do ai inc.

we call them

OFF TARGET

i made a rj11 trace connector for you eddie, email me your address.

the next time i'm at a town with a post office i've got some things to send off.

jim

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-18-2010, 07:24 PM
i made a rj11 trace connector for you eddie, email me your address.

the next time i'm at a town with a post office i've got some things to send off.

jim



Jim thanks..

check your pm's....