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View Full Version : Belgard Old World vs. Techo Villagio


Guinness56
08-13-2010, 07:51 PM
Anyone out there install Old World collection from Belgard? It's a real sharp looking product. I'm comparing it to Techo's Villagio line...trying to get a nice cobblestone-like look. I found that the surface of the Old World was VERY undulated; to the point where I fear someone might actually twist an ankle...low odds, but possible (I think). I also can't get a clear understanding of their warranty. Techo seems cut-and-dry from that perspective and Belgard's seems to be lifetime only if installed by a dealer. It's also made here in NJ by Anchor and I can't tell if their warranty is the same. The Old World looks a little nicer from a color perspective too.

I actually worry that shoveling snow on the Belgard ones could potentially damage them with a metal edged shovel (most snow shovels have that on the leading edge) as the varying lips will certainly get caught...then they'll slowing look like @!$#% over time.

I also looked at Unilock's Courtstone which also looks real nice...but, it was over $3 more a sq ft than the Techo! ($7.40 vs. $4.08)

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Joe

BrandonV
08-14-2010, 09:17 AM
belgard will warranty them if installed by an authorized contractor. ive never used the old world, looks like a good product though. i can just about guarantee you that your snow shovel won't hurt them, a snow plow may... those are two things I'm not at all familiar with.

Guinness56
08-14-2010, 11:14 AM
Thanks...yeh, I guess you don't need shovels and the like down by you. Those Belgard ones do look pretty unique. Just wish they weren't so rough.

So, they only warranty if installed by certified installer? It's ironic, to that point, I had a slight argument with the local dealer that sells them as they were telling me that I should just use mason sand or stone dust for the bedding layer yet everything I read on ICPI says absolutely not....that it's too fine....and that it must be concrete sand or ASTM C33 compliant. He also said I should never have to worry about using geotextile fabric. I think, at a minimum, I should put a small section right where my walkway will intersect by paved driveway to prevent washout, rutting, etc right there.

Joe

Guinness56
08-14-2010, 11:19 AM
I was just going through the tech spec again. looks like the Belgard, if installed by homeowner, is 5 years from data of purchase.

BrandonV
08-14-2010, 01:00 PM
thinking you get a lifetime warranty w/ a installer. how big of an area you doing? driveways or patio? if its a drive you'd be much better getting someone w/ the equipment and skills... if its a simple patio you might be able to tackle yourself.

Paver Gangster
08-14-2010, 07:14 PM
It's ironic, to that point, I had a slight argument with the local dealer that sells them as they were telling me that I should just use mason sand or stone dust for the bedding layer yet everything I read on ICPI says absolutely not....that it's too fine....and that it must be concrete sand or ASTM C33 compliant. He also said I should never have to worry about using geotextile fabric.

Great. Another untrained dealer passing on mis-information to countless customers. There should be no argument. The dealer is wrong and you should tell them so.

Even worse than telling this to contractors, some of whom know better, they are probably telling the same pablum to homeowners, so inform them they are ruining the credibility of contractors who must charge more because they do the job right, and putting that money in the hands of the fly-by-night tinkers.

The more and more I hear these stories, the more I wonder if the ICPI needs to have a special one day certification for dealer staff.

DVS Hardscaper
08-14-2010, 11:58 PM
All interlocking pavements must have 1 layer of fabric under the aggregate, and the fabric must be installed for the entire square footage of the interlocking paverment, not just "a small section...."

I prefer Belgard's Arbel Stone over Techo's flagstone. The Arbel is more realistic in sizes, whereas Techos flagstone is too slendrical.


,

Fiano Landscapes
08-15-2010, 09:30 PM
I have installed a couple different projects of old world and haven't had any problems. Around here they offer a lifetime warranty if the product is installed by a Belgard Authorized Contractor. There are a few certificates you need to qualify. I have a walkway of Old World at my personal residence, and haven't had any problems shoveling the walk also. Courtstone is far superior, but as you are experiencing very expensive.
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BOEpavers
08-16-2010, 09:20 AM
Keep in mind most paver warranties that I am aware of (not familiar with Belgard) are on the product itself, and the labor to repair is generally not covered. So homeowner installed or authorized contractor installed, you're going to have the same product with the same "potential" warranty. I guess Belgard is downgrading the warranty in case a homeowner installs the product in some totally idiotic way that compromises the structural integrity of the product. Don't really see how that could be done, and to be honest I've seen many "contractors" not install product correctly. I know of 2 in my area (northeast, freeze/thaw, etc) that use no geotextile and stone dust for setting bed. Probably at least one or two times a year we get called to repair their work and it ends up costing the HO more that had they had a reputable contractor do it correctly the first time, but everyone looks at the $$$ and not the specs.

Guinness56
08-16-2010, 11:10 PM
Fiano Lanscapes,

I appreciate your feedback.

I see on your website you've done several installs of the Belgard Old World...it looks great. So, you've had no issues with people complaining while walking on it, etc? I swung by one of the distributors by me in NJ and they commented that in the past they had rust issues with Belgard pavers (in general)...usually 2 or 3 years later after the installation rust spots would occur. You could see it in his display area actually. It was an older display, however, and they may be past that. I also assume that's more of a local issue too. Ironically, he commented that he didn't like the feel while walking on them when he went to their plant.

The Techo Villagio is a nice runner-up (looks-wise).

I'm sure to install these to the letter when it comes to ICPI guidelines considering my engineering background and general attention to detail. This warranty thing has me frustrated, though. Techo has no difference from that point of view...which is causing me to lean that way.

My wife is a big fan of the Belgard, though....damn!


Joe

Rex Mann
08-17-2010, 05:13 PM
Joe,

PM me. A friend of mine is a Belgard Sales rep. with Anchor in NJ.
I am sure he can answer any warranty questions you may have.

FYI: Polymeric sand is required on the old world because of the joint size.

Let me know if you want the phone number.

Peace,

Rex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJEF-j0I6bY

Guinness56
08-17-2010, 10:30 PM
Rex - OK, many thanks.

Joe

little green guy
09-02-2010, 08:18 PM
We just did a 700 sq ft driveway appron with the Old World and I realy like the look. It's almost got the look of a belgium block appron when you drive by with a different color. I probly wouldn't use it for a walkway or patio though, I would stick to using it only for driveways. Also we used polymeric dust instead of poly sand, the joints are realy to big for the sand and it eats uo alot of polydust too, 25 bags for 700 sq.

zedosix
09-02-2010, 08:27 PM
I used some villagio today just as a double border to techo flagstone, I do like it, but you're right the gaps are a bit big. I used the poly sand for a smoother finish.

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
09-02-2010, 09:34 PM
We just did a 700 sq ft driveway appron with the Old World and I realy like the look. It's almost got the look of a belgium block appron when you drive by with a different color. I probly wouldn't use it for a walkway or patio though, I would stick to using it only for driveways. Also we used polymeric dust instead of poly sand, the joints are realy to big for the sand and it eats uo alot of polydust too, 25 bags for 700 sq.

It's the nicest looking paver to use for a permeable, but how would it be to plow snow if used in a BIG parking lot application?

Guinness56
09-02-2010, 10:27 PM
I'm still not sold on how it feels underfoot. Although it's almost 70% more expensive, I've become a bigger fan of Unilock's Courtstone. Feels a little easier on the ankles / feet over the Belgard...look at this install. Although it looks like they scuffed it with the compactor, I think the pavers look very unique and individual...ie) little more realistic.

jonesy5149
09-04-2010, 06:34 PM
Great. Another untrained dealer passing on mis-information to countless customers. There should be no argument. The dealer is wrong and you should tell them so.

Even worse than telling this to contractors, some of whom know better, they are probably telling the same pablum to homeowners, so inform them they are ruining the credibility of contractors who must charge more because they do the job right, and putting that money in the hands of the fly-by-night tinkers.

The more and more I hear these stories, the more I wonder if the ICPI needs to have a special one day certification for dealer staff.

im with this guy ICPI has done loads of work with the techo dealers to get them to get them up to the real deal install and holding power!!!!!

jonesy5149
09-04-2010, 06:39 PM
Joe,

PM me. A friend of mine is a Belgard Sales rep. with Anchor in NJ.
I am sure he can answer any warranty questions you may have.

FYI: Polymeric sand is required on the old world because of the joint size.

Let me know if you want the phone number.

Peace,

Rex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJEF-j0I6bY

polymeric sand depending wich kind really dose not do joints bigger than 1/2 inch.. i have have great luck with RG+ and seem to not soften up like the allied gator sand.