PDA

View Full Version : Walker hydro and PTO info needed


Aussie12
08-24-2010, 11:22 AM
Gday all, I am new to forums I am not familiar with all the terms and am still trying to learn how to navigate the site so I hope I can find my way back in here :-) I have 2 questions (1) my walker hydro has been leaking and is now low on oil, by low I mean the cup is empty and the oil level is below the air breather but I can still see oil in the hydro, it is still working but sluggish in reverse on that side (fan side). I read all the info I could find on hydros in here and I dont think mine is leaking from around the shaft seal but I cant really see where it comes from the whole hydro and drive and even the plastic cups were all covered in oily dust, the cup was over full on a previous inspection but I was too busy to investigate then, I wonder if there is any reason for this, there was never too much oil put into the cup so could the oil have been forced out through the top of the cup somehow? (2) I need to repair the PTO seals (at the least ) it no longer holds oil, so it has to come out ... I think? Does it come up and out or will it come out from underneath?

Thanks in advance, Les.

Ruben Rocha
08-24-2010, 02:26 PM
Okay, glad to see you here.
However before someone beats you up for not enough info.
Read:
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=144040

It would benefit you in the fact that some here will actually look up in the service manual if available to provide you with accurate information.

MarcSmith
08-24-2010, 03:09 PM
http://www.walkermowers.com/#nogo

resources, then find your model for manuals in pdf formats...

have you taken off the nut on the top of the hydro and topped off the fluid and then put some fluid in the cup. remember the cup is only supposed to have about 1/4" of fluid in it cold. the cup is mainly for the overflow when the fluid get hot. its possible that the plastic cup has cracked around the threads and the cup itself is the source of the leak...

the pto gear boxes are either leaking around the shafts or the cover seal. should be easy enough to find the leak...clean the box up fill it with oil and see where it leaks chances are its a shaft seal. in which case Id replace all the seals. if you open the box up and start messing around might was well be proactive

ericg
08-24-2010, 04:12 PM
Aussie12, welcome to Lawnsite. The first thing I would do is clean up the hydro in an attempt to determine where the oil is coming from. There is a gasket under the plastic cup or as was suggested, the cup could have a crack. Generally, the seal for the input shaft will not leak unless there is excessive play in the input bearing. To test this, remove the hydro belt and grab the hydro pulley and try and rock it from top to bottom or side to side. There should be no play. If there is play, the input seal and bearing are bad and can be replaced in the machine. The other place fluid can leak is the lower control shaft. This seal can be replaced in the machine as well. As for the PTO box, you have to bring it up toward the top of the machine and once it clears the frame, you can bring it out through the right side. If that box is leaking, I would bet that it is either cracked or a seal is bad. The top and bottom halves can be swapped if you have a cracked case. New case halves are not available. If the seals are bad, the bearings probably have too much play in them which would require a replacement box. I have seen boxes with hairline cracks from excessively worn drive shafts as well, so if there is a crack, check your drive shaft for excessive play in the ujoints.

Eric

Aussie12
08-25-2010, 08:27 AM
Ok thanks for the speedy replies. The model is MTGHS, the serial is 41377, I think it was made in 2000, it is powered by a 20hp Kohler engine and it has almost 2500 hrs on the clock. (thanks Ruben and Marc)

I removed the PTO today, up and out (thanks Eric) sounds easy when you say it real fast :-P ... I cleaned it all up and will be replacing all the seals tomorrow, the bearings were all pretty good just a little movement in and out, it was only leaking on 1 seal but all seals have worn grooves into their shafts, I was thinking of putting HTB grease inside all the seals maybe it would hold the oil in better or maybe it will just melt and mix with the oil anyway, what do you think?

The hydro seems to be leaking at the lower control shaft, I took the nut off and tried to leaver the arm off with a screw driver but it didnt move and I ran out of time. What is the best way to remove the arm and seal? The whole bolt there moves considerably when pushed in and pulled out, probably 3mm of play is that normal?

Thanks, Les.

ericg
08-25-2010, 09:05 AM
Ok thanks for the speedy replies. The model is MTGHS, the serial is 41377, I think it was made in 2000, it is powered by a 20hp Kohler engine and it has almost 2500 hrs on the clock. (thanks Ruben and Marc)

I removed the PTO today, up and out (thanks Eric) sounds easy when you say it real fast :-P ... I cleaned it all up and will be replacing all the seals tomorrow, the bearings were all pretty good just a little movement in and out, it was only leaking on 1 seal but all seals have worn grooves into their shafts, I was thinking of putting HTB grease inside all the seals maybe it would hold the oil in better or maybe it will just melt and mix with the oil anyway, what do you think?

The hydro seems to be leaking at the lower control shaft, I took the nut off and tried to leaver the arm off with a screw driver but it didnt move and I ran out of time. What is the best way to remove the arm and seal? The whole bolt there moves considerably when pushed in and pulled out, probably 3mm of play is that normal?

Thanks, Les.

Aussie, if the seals have worn grooves on the shafts, it is unlikely that new seals will help. At one time Walker did specify a grease rather than the 90w oil that is currently in the boxes. That might buy you some time but it is a temporary fix at best. As for the control shaft, you need a puller to remove the shaft once the nut is removed as the control arm is held on to the shaft by a taper and a key. Once removed, you need to take a small pick and get the old seal out as it is recessed slightly. It is easier if the mower is up high as on a lift. I checked the control shafts on our machines and they have some play.

MarcSmith
08-25-2010, 09:27 AM
eric quick question for ya...

onmy 88 ms42 ghs my left hydro unit i cannot get the hydro release piston to work.... it locked in place. will not budge I can loosen the outer nut 7/8 a believe but I can not get the small shaft that depresses such that it can free wheel to either come out or depress... I can get it to move about 1/4 turn....but the right hand one I can adjust fine...and it depress just fine..

any idea...

I've used a SFH to persuade it to move along with copious amounts of fluid film and other penetrant with no luck..

ericg
08-25-2010, 04:24 PM
Marc, here is the link to the repair manual for the Eaton Model 7 hydro.
http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/trans_light_duty.htm
It looks like you have to split the case in order to correct what is causing the dump valve to hang up.

Eric

MarcSmith
08-25-2010, 05:12 PM
split the case eh....thats not going to happen... which means the mower will die at the bottom of the hill far away from the garage...and I won't be able to get it running...

Aussie12
08-26-2010, 12:39 AM
PTO is all back together, I just packed HTB grease around the bearings and seals and inside the box in an effort to help hold the oil in. I didn't want to fork out for a new PTO yet, I may sell the machine soon, but if not ill replace it later, now that i know how to get the sucker out :-)

I couldn't buy a puller small enough to fit the control shaft so I made a simple puller to get at the hydro seal, Ill try to post a pic incase it helps anyone else out.

Les.

fixer67
08-26-2010, 01:21 AM
Aussie12
I use a puller that is made to remove wind shield wiper arms with for that. It works great.

ericg
08-26-2010, 06:10 AM
Aussie, glad things worked out. Please post back once the control shaft repair is complete.

Eric

Aussie12
09-28-2010, 04:28 AM
Hydro update..... still have not got the seal in :-( ... it took over a week to get the seal ... meanwhile my right hand man went off work for a number of days (injured) and I had to fill in ... then I had to finish rebuilding our second trailer because we needed it back in operation, it is normaly very dry this time of year with not alot happenning in the grass growing ... but not this year, it has been raining almost every day lately, wettest winter in over 20 years! ... the growing season has come 2 months early, so I put a young casual guy on to help us out and went to put the seal in yesterday .... WRONG SEAL! So I currently await for the right seal to come in.

While I am waiting I have another question if I may. I bought 2 second hand walkers, both MTGHS 26hp EFI, 1 going, 1 not, I will be selling the 20hp when i finaly get the seal in. Ok, the going walker has 1600 hrs on it and goes fine on flat ground but does not pull properly on slopes, on one side the hydro is not working right. I replaced the oil in the hydros and the drive axels, but it looks like i might be up for a new hydro, well I read somwhere in here that you should not just replace the hydro because the old drive axel could do damage to the new hydro, I was just wondering what you guys have to say about that?

ericg
09-28-2010, 06:14 AM
Aussie, check out this thread. Fixer gave a lot of tips on checking a machine that would not work on inclines.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=325207

As for the hydro ruining an axle, they are separate on a Walker. Unless a hydro output bearing or output gear were to fail and fall into the final dive, I don't see any way that the two are related failure wise.
Please post back once you get the right seal.

Eric

Aussie12
09-28-2010, 03:00 PM
ericg, thanks for that link I will have a good look at my belts and stuff before I replace the hydro huh :-)

It wasn't the the hydro doing damage to the drive axel it was the other way around.... I cant find the post now but it said something like a worn drive axel could cause a new hydro to overwork and fail prematurely, and the advise was to replace the drive axel along with the hydro.

Thanks, Les.

ericg
09-28-2010, 04:27 PM
Les, thy this link:

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=105585&highlight=walker+final+drive

Aussie12
10-12-2010, 07:18 AM
Okay, I fitted the seal a few days back... put her all back together, I have not done any mowing work with it, but I have been moving her around the shed, mostly to get it out of the way for other stuff... so far so good, no drips on the floor :-) ... I am selling it to a friend, hope it goes well for them, thanks for all the advice and help on that job.

Now, I have another walker GHS 26 EFI, I changed the hydro and drive gear oils, after stopping the machine the hydro on 1 side seems to stick sometimes, I mean when I pull or push the go leaver's I can hear the hydro labouring but there is no drive movement, I just jiggle it forward n back a few times and it seems to work but something must be wrong? any ideas appreciated.

Thanks, Les.