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Illumicare
08-25-2010, 02:21 AM
For those of you who are not using LED lamps / fixtures in your lighting systems, please take a minute and to answer the poll and write your thoughts down here.

jshimmin
08-25-2010, 03:59 PM
I am using them but with a level of trepidation.

(trep∑i∑da∑tion/ˌtrepiˈdāSHən/Noun
1. A feeling of fear or agitation about something that may happen.)

Only one manufacturer/distributor has stepped up and offered a warranty near the claimed life expectancy. The margins are not high enough for me to eat the cost of replacing a unit 2 years and 1 day old. Most failures do occur within the first couple months but I have seen enough to make me question the long term financial risk.

Illumicare
08-25-2010, 07:42 PM
I am using them but with a level of trepidation.

(trep∑i∑da∑tion/ˌtrepiˈdāSHən/Noun
1. A feeling of fear or agitation about something that may happen.)

Only one manufacturer/distributor has stepped up and offered a warranty near the claimed life expectancy. The margins are not high enough for me to eat the cost of replacing a unit 2 years and 1 day old. Most failures do occur within the first couple months but I have seen enough to make me question the long term financial risk.

Hi Jim. Let me try to relieve some of your trepidation.

1: Most products, no matter what category, do not offer warranties that come anywhere near the life expectancy of the product. Consumer electronics, appliances, vehicles, power tools, etc etc all offer limited warranties and yet you continue to purchase them with no trepidation. Why should an LED lamp be any different? Just because your car is warrantied for 5 years or 100,000 miles does not mean that the life expectancy of the car is only 5 years or 100,000 miles. Same with everything else. (On another note... I have yet to see any warranty from any incandescent lamp manufacturer that means anything. Extended life claims are made all the time but who ever expects any warranty coverage for a xenon or long life halogen lamp that fails prematurely? You just toss it out and replace with new.)

2: Perhaps you need to revisit your pricing strategy for lamps? I am not about to tell anyone how to do their business, but our lamps are typically sold to the end user for around $60 each. When you start installing these lamps regularly (on every job), you will quickly see the bottom line benefit to your business and you will not worry so much about what it might cost to replace one or two here or there after any warranty period expires. Switching to LED lamps on your installs is not much different than switching to spec. grade fixtures from the run of the mill stuff. Bottom line is if you want to make more money at the end of the day, use better quality products.

Putting my 'contractor hat' on for a minute. I made the switch over to LED lamps for all of my installations at INTEGRA over 3 years ago. Even though my first year's lamp selection (Prolight - no longer available) was not 100 % successful (relatively high number of premature failures due to moisture issues) I still made good money and still have hundreds of them installed and functioning fine.

If you have any other questions or concerns, don't hesitate to bring them up.

James

Illumicare
08-25-2010, 07:44 PM
After we receive some more responses to the poll, I will go through the numbers and try to answer some questions and quell any trepidation. In the mean time, if you have any specific issues you would like to discuss, post them here.

James

Classic Lighting
08-25-2010, 08:38 PM
I have yet to use LED lamps. The vast majority of information and opinions tells me that LED's are not reliable....yet. IMO, LED technology improves with every passing year. I predict in 2, 3, 4 years that I will be 100% LED. Until then, I feel that halogen is the better choice.

Illumicare
08-25-2010, 11:15 PM
Hi Classic. How about this for an idea... Try some LED lamps out at your own home / shop and see how they perform. Get used to them a bit. Watch the 75 - 80% electrical savings add up, and watch them perform flawlessly night after night. I think your concerns over reliability will be quickly relieved. In the time you spend waiting until you hear other's opinions improve, you could be doing your own evaluation.

Pro-Scapes
08-26-2010, 08:37 AM
Hi Classic. How about this for an idea... Try some LED lamps out at your own home / shop and see how they perform. Get used to them a bit. Watch the 75 - 80% electrical savings add up, and watch them perform flawlessly night after night. I think your concerns over reliability will be quickly relieved. In the time you spend waiting until you hear other's opinions improve, you could be doing your own evaluation.

It is too soon to be tossing around flawless. You admit you had some problems with prolight. There was problems with the Kumho. There has been steady improvments in LED lighting but flawless is an awfully strong term.

No one can dispute how effecient they are. I doubt anyone will dispute how much they have improved in the past few years. Oh and my own house is done in half Cree LED and half halogen. So far I have replaced 1 led and 1 halogen in the past 6 mo.

jshimmin
08-26-2010, 09:17 AM
$60 around here for an LED up charge is not feasible. I have several installers quoting them on almost every job I bid on for a rate below my standard halogen rate. We still see the same failure rate for the LED's as the halogen's for now. Only difference is the customer expects the halogens to have some failures.

Efficiency - so a $10 electric bill goes to $2 - not big in the scheme of things.

They will be almost 100% of the installs soon. For now I always inform the customer that they can go halogen to start and switch to LED retro-fits when it comes time for a re-lamp.

I do have over 40 LED's going in next week. Primary reason - it was the right choice based on existing transformers and distance to the new areas being illuminated.

Illumicare
08-26-2010, 10:14 AM
$60 around here for an LED up charge is not feasible. I have several installers quoting them on almost every job I bid on for a rate below my standard halogen rate. We still see the same failure rate for the LED's as the halogen's for now. Only difference is the customer expects the halogens to have some failures.

Efficiency - so a $10 electric bill goes to $2 - not big in the scheme of things.



Hi Jim. My point on pricing the LED lamps is this: They should be treated just as any other component that you sell through your business. I am assuming that you do not give big discounts on fixtures, transformers and halogen lamps... so apply the same markup formula that you would to your halogen lamps to the LED lamps.

In regards to what the competition is doing; well you cannot control that. All you can do is assure your customers that the lamps and components that you use are superior to those that your competition is quoting. There is simply no way any LED lamp that costs around the same price point as a quality halogen lamp will survive in an outdoor lighting system. Just like cheap incandescents, cheap LEDs will fade, fail, and under-perform.

When you say you see the "same failure rate" with LED lamps as halogens, what do you mean? Are you talking about out of the box failures? What brand of LED lamps are you currently using?

Just like any other component out there, you do get what you pay for. By using top quality LED lamps, from www.ledlightsdirect.com , that have been specifically designed for use in enclosed fixtures and outdoor applications, you will be much further ahead of the crowd.

Have a great day
James

extlights
08-26-2010, 10:32 AM
We have had zero requests for LED. Nobody has even brought up the subject. We don't push them for probably the same reasons as the others who don't use them. Energy costs don't seem to be a concern to most. The nice thing is that the halogen systems don't cost much to run anyway. People these days....even the wealthy are watching costs on everything. I just don't have enough confidence in LED yet. I have to be sold on them before I can sell them to my customers.

Look, we've been doing business the same way for many years and it's worked out great. The burn out lamp issue is really a non issue for me as we do a lot of yearly maintenance contracts anyway. Maybe LED's will be the way of the future, but as of now I'm not considering the change. We always have a lot of people approaching us wanting us to use their product or swith to this or that, but nobody has really tried to get us to switch to LED. That in my mind tells me that it's not quite there yet.

David Gretzmier
08-28-2010, 12:24 AM
The risk is the biggest deal for me. while it is one thing to take a risk on a different halogen bulb, taking a risk on LED bulb is 4-10x that cost.

some items have warranties that seem too short given the life expectancy. LED lights are in that category, along with laptop computers ( 90 days to 1 year), most professional level outdoor power equipment ( 90 days to 2 years )

and yes, I would debate that hundreds of items do carry a warranty that corresponds to the life expectancy. many power tools carry 5, 7, 10 year warranties, and these items cost 35-100 bucks each. most TV's have 3, 5, even 10 year warranties.

but other items have longer warranties that really is necessary.

I remember really crummy Chrystler cars having a 10 year 100k miles warranty.

my carpet came with a lifetime stain warranty. my wood floors have a 50 year finish warranty. my steel roof over my new shop has a 45 year paint and rust warranty. I was recently looking at some new shingles for my home, and instead of 25, 30, 40 years, some now have "lifetime" warranties ( the houses?, my lifetime?, or the roofs?)

people will glady pay more for a superior product, and if it truly is long lasting and reliable, then it has little risk and it costs the manufacturer little to extend thier warranty. the greater the risk and cost, the less likely manu's extend a warranty.

Pro-Scapes
08-28-2010, 08:30 AM
The risk is the biggest deal for me. while it is one thing to take a risk on a different halogen bulb, taking a risk on LED bulb is 4-10x that cost.

some items have warranties that seem too short given the life expectancy. LED lights are in that category, along with laptop computers ( 90 days to 1 year), most professional level outdoor power equipment ( 90 days to 2 years )

and yes, I would debate that hundreds of items do carry a warranty that corresponds to the life expectancy. many power tools carry 5, 7, 10 year warranties, and these items cost 35-100 bucks each. most TV's have 3, 5, even 10 year warranties.

but other items have longer warranties that really is necessary.

I remember really crummy Chrystler cars having a 10 year 100k miles warranty.

my carpet came with a lifetime stain warranty. my wood floors have a 50 year finish warranty. my steel roof over my new shop has a 45 year paint and rust warranty. I was recently looking at some new shingles for my home, and instead of 25, 30, 40 years, some now have "lifetime" warranties ( the houses?, my lifetime?, or the roofs?)

people will glady pay more for a superior product, and if it truly is long lasting and reliable, then it has little risk and it costs the manufacturer little to extend thier warranty. the greater the risk and cost, the less likely manu's extend a warranty.
Some of your comparisons are irrelevant for a few reasons. Alot of the warranties your speaking of will be pro-rated just like a car battery or tire. What that basically breaks down to is a gimmick to get you to buy the same product again when need be. It ends up being less expensive than loosing you to the competition.

No way can you compare the LED's to the laptop scenario. Your not looking to put 1000+ laptops a year out in customers hands and pray they hold up.

Here is another question. Has anyone tried CFL lamps outside ?

indylights
08-28-2010, 11:38 AM
I have had zero requests for LED on my lighting jobs. It has nothing to do with relamping or maintenance work, but I'm not going to unnecessarily push an untested upsell when the high quality halogen lamps I have in place have worked great. I get more versatility, greater output, and proven results with the halogen I use. Not all of us live in resort vacation wonderland, and in the Midwest, where the economy has been devastated, the additional cost is way too prohibitive right now for something that may go very wrong sooner rather than later. And just like TV's and cellphones, today's great technology may be worthless tomorrow in the LED market.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

AztlanLC
08-28-2010, 11:45 AM
my approach to LED has also being to wait, last season we priced a job where the customer requested LED, we figured it would take 8 years to recover the extra cost of the fixtures if none of the LED's have to be replaced

Tomwilllight
08-28-2010, 02:12 PM
Hi Classic. How about this for an idea... Try some LED lamps out at your own home / shop and see how they perform. Get used to them a bit.... In the time you spend waiting until you hear other's opinions improve, you could be doing your own evaluation.

James, I've installed 6 different manufacturer's (including yours) product in my back garden. In addition, I've installed my collection of various area lights to demonstrate how the selection of height, reflector and source impact the luminaire's performance.

The results have been impressive. I've used a mix of halogen and LED's (mostly LED) in each application - up, down and area lighting - and it is very difficult to tell which is LED for most of the product.

LEDs may still have some bugs to work out, but it's clear to me the technology is "getting there."

LED's are still too expensive for most clients. They are attractive to clients' who want to be involved in the process, have a commitment to energy savings and intend to "walk the walk"... not just "talk the talk".

I expect the demo/teaching garden to be a key part of my introducing myself to my new community.

Tom

RLI Electric
08-28-2010, 03:58 PM
Tom, do you have any pictures?

Tomwilllight
08-28-2010, 08:54 PM
Hi Bob,

I'll be glad to... just as soon as I get around to taking the photos... :)

Tom

David Gretzmier
08-28-2010, 09:38 PM
an answer to the above- best buy has a very good reason for not extending warranties on laptops for the tens of thousands they sell every year- they break, and break alot. I have had 5 laptops between my wife and I over the last 5 years. I purchased an extended warranty on each, to the tune of 200-300 bucks for each laptop. all of them needed at least that value of repairs, and 2 of those laptops had to be full blown replaced. Best buy is not willing to take the financial risk of repairing all those laptops without some form of compensation. And trust me, Best buy knows exactly what they spend every year on all laptop repair, and charge accordingly for the service contract.

I am the same way. I know I will have some bulbs that go out, and timers fail, sockets, etc. I am happy to take on that risk the first year, and extend that risk if I am compensated by yearly cleaning/greasing/rebulbing.

but I do not know the financial risk of the replacing LED retrofits. If 5-8 halogen bulbs go out in a 45-50 fixture job in any given year, I can absorb that cost through my rebulb revenue and it is relatively minor. the same number of LED's go out ( and that is very realistic given the testing I have done over the past 5 years, including the last 2) That dollar amount approaches the cost of a small transformer. another viewpoint is once you lose 2-3 LED retrofits, you could have replaced all the halogen bulbs in a system. at the same time that the financial risk is going up, working against this expense is the customers viewpoint that they should pay less for the yearly maintenance since you no longer have to buy bulbs to replace them every year. so they want you to do the yearly maintenance for less.

Inspired
08-29-2010, 06:14 AM
I have actually had a bad experience with a major brand. First time I'd tried LEDs. They were underwater lights that burned out after 60 days. Got warranty replacements, they burned out also. I've been sort of leery after that.

Illumicare
08-29-2010, 09:35 AM
I would like to address this "financial risk" issue that is being talked about. For the purposed of this discussion I will just use some hypothetical numbers but you should get the idea.

Lets say that a quality halogen MR16 costs you about $4 each and you sell them through to your customers at around $8 each. (50% gross margin)
Similarly a quality LED MR16 lamps costs you about $30 each and you sell them through to your customers at around $60 each. (50% gross margin)

Having done this for a few years now, I can honestly say that there is no financial risk to the contractor.

Scenario: If you install a system with 100 halogen lamps, you are going to make a gross profit of $400 just on the lamps alone. No warranty of course, and if and when something goes wrong inside the contractors warranty period (typically 2 years) you would be on the hook to replace those lamps. It isnt really a worry, even if say 10% of the lamps crash do to a surge or lightning strike or you made the mistake of installing a certain line of "long life" lamps... you would just go back to site and replace the 10 failed units at a component cost to you of $40. Arguably you have still made a gross profit of $60 on lamps alone.

Same scenario with LED lamps. You install 100 into a new system. Your gross profit on the lamps alone is $3000. Then say 4 years into the job there is some issue and 10 of the lamps fail. (There is a 3 year warranty on the lamps, offering you "protection" from this scenario that doesnt exist with the halogen lamps) You go back to the job and because you are a great guy and run an awesome company, you agree to replace the lamps at no cost to the customer. The replacement lamps cost you $300. So you have still made a gross profit of $2600 on lamps alone.

If you are pricing your components properly, then there is no financial risk to using either lamp technology. As with all products and components, there is a much higher reward for using better quality components. Those who know this, practice it.

The bottom line is there is no financial risk to the contractor. Even if 100% of the lamps were to fail on any particular job, you would only be loosing the gross profit from the sale of the lamps.

In my experience with other lamps the failure rate was in around the 5% range... mostly due to moisture/humidity issues. In my experience with our line of LED lamps (having used a couple of thousand of them and having sold a couple of thousand of them to others from www.ledlightsdirect.com ) the failure rate has been insignificant. I have replaced maybe 4 or 5 lamps installed into leaky fixtures and I have sent out a couple of warranty replacements to others.

The LED lamps that we sell are top quality units, that perform night after night, consume nearly 80% less electricity and offer up to 10X the life of quality halogen lamps and have been designed and optimized to work in outdoor lighting systems. The contractors that have made the switch over to our LED lamps are enjoying the profits that they receive on the installation and not having to worry about making a couple of bucks per lamp, year after year, over the next 10+ years.

As for LED 'ruining your service business'; well this argument is moot as well. Any outdoor lighting system will require service, no matter what lamps you use. Cleaning, re-aiming, re-positioning, additions, changes, repairs still have to be done, you just dont have to change out the lamps. It's not a worry, as you made as much money on the installation of the lamps as you would have made over 10 years switching out halogen lamps.

Show this scenario to any accountant or business coach and ask them if they would rather you make $30 today or $40 over the course of the next decade, $4 at a time.

Illumicare
08-29-2010, 09:54 AM
my approach to LED has also being to wait, last season we priced a job where the customer requested LED, we figured it would take 8 years to recover the extra cost of the fixtures if none of the LED's have to be replaced

Below is a cost benefit analysis that shows the use of LED lamps on a new installation will save the customer more than $200 per fixture over the life of the lamp.

Assumptions:
Cost of electricity = $0.10 per Kw/h
Cost of Halogen lamp = $9.5
Cost of LED lamp = $60
Cost of labour = $50 per hour
Gross time billed for lamp change = 15 mins.

System on time for comparison = 40,000 hours.

Halogen:

20W MR16 BAB x 40,000 hours / 1000 = 800 Kw/H consumed X .10 = $80
10 lamp changes (4000 hr lamps) x $9.5 each = $95
10 lamp changes (15 mins gross) = 2.5 hrs x $50 = $125

Total cost of using a halogen lamp for 40,000 hours = $300

LED:

5.4w LED x 40,000 hours / 1000 = 216 Kw/H consumed x .10 = $21.6
1 Lamp x $60 each = $60

Total cost of using a LED lamp for 40,000 hours = $81.60

In this case, the customer would see a net savings of $218.49 per fixture installed with LED lamps.

It is important to not just focus on electrical savings, as it is actually the cost of re-lamping that adds up over time.

As stated previously, you still get to service the client's system. You still charge your service call rate, you still have to clean, aim, reposition, add, change and repair.

extlights
08-29-2010, 10:42 AM
These numbers are based solely on assumption and doesn't take everything into account such as the initial cost. Also the average homeowner isn't going to be thinking about the savings over 10 years...that's just not reality. It's not about a financial risk to us, but what our customers want. Budgets are more common these days and I would bet that around here if I proposed 2 systems to the customers (1 halogen and 1 LED) 9 times out of 10 they are going to choose halogen.

RLI Electric
08-29-2010, 11:18 AM
You know, Iphone has an app called Watts Plus that you can use for showing side by side comparisons of LED vs Halogen load and cost comparison. There is also a app called Electrical Pro that has most of your major charts from the NEC for loads and conduit fill. There is My Measures that allows you to take a photo and enter in a dimension so you have an as built. That is huge. If I had an iPad that can be huge as well. If I can show of one of my blurry, hot photos on a bigger screen than my iphone people would love me and hire me on the spot.:) Not that I am selling Apple stuff but it is as important as my pliers for my business.

indylights
08-29-2010, 12:17 PM
James I realize you are trying to sell a product, but as was previously stated by others, a lot of your projections are based on assumptions. I stated I was not worried about maintenance business. The biggest initial hurdles I would face is (1) there is minimal to no interest in LED in my market (2) it is way to expensive right now. Like was stated in a post by extlights, if I proposed equal systems in LED and halogen, halogen would be selected 9 out of 10 times even if you did explain return on investment, energy savings, etc. The vast majority of homeowners, not second home or vacation home owners, that I deal with are interested in the here and now. With things being as volatile as they are economically, that's all they care about. I would love for you to come into a middle America market, not a resort or vacation or beachfront market, and see how much success you would have selling LED systems. It's a different story.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

The Lighting Geek
08-29-2010, 01:45 PM
It really does depend on your market. In California the cost of electricity, efforts to move to green energy, and the environmentally conscious are what I see driving the LED sales around me. Some don't don't even ask about cost analysis, they just want to be involved in the Green Movement.

Mark B
08-29-2010, 04:21 PM
Tommy that is good point things are different here in NC.
Posted via Mobile Device

David Gretzmier
08-29-2010, 06:51 PM
James, I appreciate the numbers, and you make excellent math points. on the halogen number, you mention charging 15 minutes of service time at $50 per hour, or around $12.50, and charging $9.50 for the bulb or around 21bucks per fixture per year to service the lights and trans. for me this is about what I charge and folks are willing to pay it to get a year to year guarantee on all the components of the system ( transformer included)

I think you should at least include the 12.50 per year on the maintenance end for the LED equation as well, as you stated you will still have to service yearly ( lenses, o-rings and sockets greased, foliage trimmed, bugs/cobwebs on trans, aiming all fixtures ) , and expect the customer to pay for it. with this service, I would feel obligated to warranty the LED lamps much like I warranty the halogen. the tough part of that is I am not selling a bulb year to year to get that profit to cover that cost, I made it when I installed it.

this 125 bucks over a 10 year period would raise your 80 dollar LED 10 year cost to 200, or 200 versus 300.

but my gut tells me more customers with LED will elect to not get yearly service, although I have no experience with that.

If customers are not going to have me service the properties yearly, then I am on board by possibly offering LED at 60 bucks extra per fixture, and I agree there is more gross profit in LED versus halogen install. I would probably still only offer a 1 year warranty unless they have me do maintenance.

on maintained yearly systems, I would rather make $20-22 per fixture revenue, buy the halogen bulbs and just change out bulbs.

The fear over LED's is not about replacing 10 over a 10 year period. it is about replacing 20 or 30 of them on a 56 bulb system you put in 2 years ago and the extra 30 bucks per fixture profit you made was spent long ago.

Tim R.
09-07-2010, 03:50 PM
Here are a few photos from a 400+ fixture LED light job we are completing. I am amazed at the flexibility LEDs offer and have been fairly impresed with the LEDs color and lumen output overall. I wish we had a 35-40 watt equivelant retro, but all in good time I'm sure.

Enjoy

Illumicare
09-07-2010, 09:21 PM
Hey Tim. Good to see you back here on Lawnsite and great to see more of your fantastic photos and work! You inspire me to get off my butt and get my camera out more often.

There is certainly nothing wrong with the colour rendition or CCT of those LED lamps you are using! Looks lovely.

Here at LED Lights Direct, we now offer 3 distinct colour temperatures in our LED MR16 Lamp line.
Very Warm White at 2700K,
Warm White at 3000K and
Natural White at 4000K.

You have your choice of beam spreads too, ranging from a 15 Degree Spot, 30 Degree Narrow Flood and 45 Degree Wide Flood. All of our optics are clear and abberation (defect) free giving you excellent efficiency and an even beam pattern.


www.ledlightsdirect.com

James

Terradek
09-08-2010, 10:20 AM
Tim,
You need to consider submitting your work to the AOLP Design Awards. Each year we recognize the work of our members in several categories. It is a nice way to strengthen your reputation and separate yourself from the competition. In fact, the Design Awards Committee has just issued the call for 2011 submissions so this would be a great time to consider entering your work. If you would like to view some of the past winners I would encourage you to visit the AOLP site at www.aolponline.org , there is more information about this and the other programs that the AOLP offers.

Tim R.
09-08-2010, 02:14 PM
I may, I am really considering going to conference this year with the Geek there.

bcg
09-08-2010, 06:06 PM
I'm using a lot of LED on a project I'm working on right now, mostly Kichler fixtures. The project was originally installed by someone else a little less than 2 years ago so I'm mainly using LED to avoid having to rewire the entire site (the wire is in good shape, I haven't seen any corrosion on any of the splices I've cut) and to avoid having to upsize the transformers. In addition to the Kichler fixtures, I'm using some Ushio retrofit lamps.

James, I looked at getting some of your lamps but for the specimen plants and columns I'm lighting I really need a 24* beam, which Ushio does make. The 15* is going to me a little too narrow for what I want to accomplish. Do you have plans to produce a 24* (or close to it) beam in the future? What about a 30W equivalent retrofit lamp?

Illumicare
09-09-2010, 01:28 AM
James, I looked at getting some of your lamps but for the specimen plants and columns I'm lighting I really need a 24* beam, which Ushio does make. The 15* is going to me a little too narrow for what I want to accomplish. Do you have plans to produce a 24* (or close to it) beam in the future? What about a 30W equivalent retrofit lamp?

We just recently received our inventory of 30 Degree LED MR16 lamps, so this comes pretty close to the 24 Deg. you are using now. With 15, 30, and 45 Degree, we feel we have a good selection of optics for most applications.

As for a 35W MR16 equivalent, we are still in development of this lamp but hope to have it ready for market in the near future. Stay tuned!

The main difference between our line of LED MR16 lamps and those you are using now is that ours have been developed specifically for use in LV outdoor lighting systems. Our lamps run much cooler, are designed to be installed in enclosed fixtures and have features that allow them to operate in humid and moist environments.

Have a great day

James

Let There Be Light
09-09-2010, 10:29 PM
We use LEDS almost exclusively:

When comparing system by system (halogen and LED), LED actually works out to be less money for the client via reduced cable and lower wattage transformers. We also mix where need be.

Not to mention the energy savings :)

Cheers,

Steve

lilmarvin4064
09-30-2010, 03:36 PM
How come no one sells 3500K fixtures? 5 rooms in my house are lit using some 3500K Lux' Rebels. This is probably my favorite CT for most interior living spaces.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-30-2010, 03:44 PM
sorry using wrong account....

Tomwilllight
09-30-2010, 03:46 PM
My guess is because this post is about Landscape Lighting, not interior lighting.

Illumicare
09-30-2010, 03:47 PM
How come no one sells 3500K fixtures? 5 rooms in my house are lit using some 3500K Lux' Rebels. This is probably my favorite CT for most interior living spaces.

I am sure you can find some manufacturer of interior LED fixtures that offers a product with a 3500K CCT.

The most commonly accepted CCT for interior lighting is 3000K (Halogen) with 2700K mimicking the traditional incandescent light bulb. Commercial interiors tend to go more in to the 4000K - 5000K range.

Our focus is on LED lamps not fixtures. We offer LED MR16 lamps in 2700K, 3000K and 4000K and are currently looking at developing a line of 5500 - 6000K for specialty applications.

Tomwilllight
09-30-2010, 04:54 PM
I tested a short-neck PAR 30 replacement LED last night that is fully dimmable: no flicker, 22 degree distribution, 12-Watts and 2700K. And it's a major manufacturer. Lovely.