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View Full Version : gas in the oil on Turf Tiger


Shady Brook
08-06-2002, 10:24 PM
I thought I would post this where there was more visability.

I have had substancial amounts of gas in my oil for several hundred hours now. The dealer thought it was coolant, changed head gaskets, but it did not help. My fear is that gas not being a very good lubricant, damage could have occured. The dealer acts like it is probably nothing, and I can not really tell any power loss, so who knows. The mechanics got rid of the oil, so I can not take a sample for wear metals.

Does anyone have an educated opinion on whether or not I should be very concerned about this situation. It was not just a little gas, but a whole bunch. I would not be suprised if it were a 50/50 mix.

Any thoughts are most welcome

Jay

odin
08-06-2002, 10:54 PM
Jay

I had gas get into the oil of a 36 belt drive scagg the dealer told me it was from not turning the fuel valve off and the machine bounceing around on the trailer from stop to stop.

The walkbehind i thought sure had blown the engine you coundnt even pull the start rope .

Well it turned out to be gas in the oil and the mechanic said it was a lot of gas in it.

Jay did terpstra's do the work on your tiger?

Hope it works all ok those darn repair bills can kill ya.

Jack.......

Shady Brook
08-06-2002, 11:15 PM
Jack

Hey buddy, yeah it was Terpstra's that is doing the work. It was only this time that one of the Mechanics thought a more through test needed to be done. Could have saved many, many days without the mower. Oh well.

It will be covered under warrentee, or the body count will be high! :angry: :D

The carb is bad, we could see the carb bubleing fuel out on the inside. I just want to know if it is ok, or if I need to look to sell it soon.

Thanks
Jay

barnard
08-07-2002, 12:07 AM
If it doesn't smoke or have excessive oil consumption don't worry about it. Why do you think you had gas in the oil for several hundred ours? you might have had some getting in for a while but it cooks off(evaporates quiklly in a running engine. It was standard practice in the old days of 6 volt batteries on tractors to thin the oil with gasoline so it crank over in extreme cold weather. the gas would then evaporate from the crankcase during operation. Also if youhad lots of gasoline in the oil your engine would have been running rich lie the choke was on due to gas vapors being drawn into the carb from the crankcase ventillation tube(hose).This didn't happen on the old tractors because crancase vapors were vented to the atmosphere instead of being drawn into the intake manifold and burned as the are now.

strickdad
08-07-2002, 03:31 AM
ok here is the deal, the carb has a needle and seat stuck (trust me on this i used to be a mechanic) and it is alowing the fuel to flow in to the compression chamber and "puddle" on top of the piston (this is all happening when the engine is not running) the fuel will evently get by the rings and go into the crankcase,where it will blend with the oil . what will happen is the oil will thin out and lose its "viscosty" which inturn will accelerate wear. also gasoline is a oxidiser meaning it will have an aciditic effect on bearings etc. if the problem is not corrected in a timely manner it will lead to engine failure....

Scotlawncare
08-07-2002, 07:59 PM
If there is no engine damage then switch oils to either mobil 1 syn or opti syn and ALWAYS shut off the fuel when you load the mower on the trailer. synthetic oils will help protect the engine incase it happens again. shutting off the fuel after loading the mower on the trailer will PREVENT this from happening again. Just Ask 65Hoss. He will tell you what it almost cost him due to the same problem.

lawnmowerman29
08-08-2002, 01:55 AM
I just cannot believe your mechanic told you not to worry about the gas in the oil! If i were you i would find a mechanic who knew what he was talking about like a kohler master or briggs master tech. Gas in the oil can and will hurt your engine. It breaks down the oil and cause premature engine failure. I should know i turned wrenches on these mowers for 5 year before getting into the biz myself. The needle and seat on your carb is not sealing and allowing gas to leak by into the crankcase. Its a 10$ part and 1/2 hr labor job.

Shady Brook
08-08-2002, 07:55 AM
Yeah, the dealer and mechanics are not inspireing much confidence in me currently. "Oh yeah, it should not hurt anything, go ahead and run it." It is sitting at the shop waiting for a carb kit that does not exisit according to the parts man, and a solenoid that shuts down the fuel, I believe.

I am demoing a Hustler Z today from another shop. Great start to this demo is...No tire pressure in any of the tires. Blades were dull, with one chewwed to bits. A mulch kit was on it when I did not ask for one, and the blade that was cobbed up also touched on of the baffles when the blades were engauged. The machine has 4 hours on it, it has rusted pulleys, rust on the muffler, and one of the armrests is cracked from sitting in the sun..... Hum, I wonder if I buy from them I will get this kind of service?

Thanks fellas, looks like Russian Roulette at this point.

Jay

Shady Brook
09-04-2002, 08:00 AM
Still searching for answers.

They rebuilt the carb, and put on a new shut off solenoid. No worky! Ok, so they put on a new carb.... No Worky. Kawsaki rep told the service guy it must be carb related. They told them they rebuilt it, and installed a new one, he continues to say that it must be the carb. They are going to try a fuel pump. Any other suggestions why my oil level keeps rising? Thanks for you help guys.

Jay

65hoss
09-04-2002, 09:02 AM
The oil level keeps rising, but are you shutting off the fuel when trailering or letting it sit overnight?

sdwally
09-04-2002, 09:51 AM
With all the work on the carb, I would check the vent hole on the gas cap. If it is plugged, it will pressurize the fuel tank and force fuel thru the pump and into the carb.

longviewlawncare
09-04-2002, 09:23 PM
we had a float valve that was sticking open and just allowing fuel to keep going through and flooded the engine with fuel in the oil.

Shady Brook
09-04-2002, 10:09 PM
Thanks fellas!

I don't have the beast here to look at. Lost some Hydropump seals. This is the 4th incedent with that same hydropump in a week. Actually it is on the second hydropump. It blew a seal first, then lost the pump and I almost hit a car. Missed by inches. Then I am leaking, and it turns out the mechanic did something wrong when mounting a hose. Now I blow another seal, I just don't know what is next!

Hoss, no I have not shut off the fuel, but I do now remember that you had advised that in a previous post. Is this something only to be done at the end of the day, or should you do it between every lawn? Also, is this something that everybody should do with every machine, or is it specific to some units?

I will check the gas cap vent hole, interesting thought there as well.

Again, thanks for all your input.
Jay

Tony Harrell
09-04-2002, 10:39 PM
I was soooo looking forward to answering this one but, pooh, you guys beat me to it. Anyway, guess that's another reason to check the crankcase before starting.

Shady Brook
09-04-2002, 11:05 PM
I just looked through my manuals, and I can't find anything telling me that I need to shut off the fuel when trailoring and such. Am I blind? How did you guys know to do it? Sounds like a pain to do between each yard.

Thanks
Jay

65hoss
09-05-2002, 12:35 AM
My eXmark owners manual suggest your turn the fuel off.
4.3.5 ...Close fuel shut-off valve when machine will not be used for a few days, when transporting, and when unit is parked inside a building.

In case you have a piece of trash or a small imperfection around the needle it will keep the fuel from running into the crankcase. I flip the switch on all mine everytime we stop the mower. Its such a habit that its no big deal anymore. Its something you can do to any motor. Experience on this one almost cost me some serious bucks once upon a time.

SLS
09-05-2002, 12:37 AM
Shady Brook asks:

"I just looked through my manuals, and I can't find anything telling me that I need to shut off the fuel when trailoring and such. Am I blind? How did you guys know to do it?"

Experience! :)

This has been discussed several times before her amongst the ol' timers. Lots of wierd things are atributable to the bouncing of the trailer. Ever have any problems keeping your floating decks in proper adjustment? I did...until I started lowering it (letting it's full weight rest on trailer floor) during transport. It turned out that it was the 'bumps in the road' (not the lawns) that was knocking it out of whack. Never needed another adjustment since 'dropping' it to the floor during transport.

The floats in the carburators also jiggle around alot on bumpy roads...opening and closing the needle/seat assy...thus allowing fuel to work it's way into the cylinders...which then seeps past the piston rings...ending up in the crankcase.

Stuff really takes a beating riding on typical trailers. Try lying on your back (on your trailer) while someone drives down your typical American road. I give you just a couple minutes before you start screaming "uncle!". :D

Shady Brook
09-05-2002, 07:47 AM
Thanks a bunch fellas, those were great explanations. I will get in the habit of shutting off the fuel, and lowering the deck in the future. I don't think that this is my problem at present, at least I doubt it. I would be amazed if it would occur right after a rebuild, and after a brand new carb so quickly, when it was not noticeable for 1.5 years with the first one. Who knows I guess. They are trying a fuel pump, so maybe between the two it will be ok. I am suprised that bit of gas that slips buy does not get burnt off when the engine heats up. Interesting.

Anyway, thanks so much guys! :)
Jay

Shultz
09-05-2002, 09:02 AM
Which shop has the machine?
Terpstras in schereville or griffith? For future reference. Thanks.

Shady Brook
09-05-2002, 11:11 PM
The machine is at Griffith, but was in to Schereville for one of the hydro incedents. There was a burr on one of the fittings on the hydropump, which tore up the seals. To bad they could not have found that before all the other visits this past week.

Jay