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View Full Version : sooooo over the handy man


jonesy5149
09-04-2010, 06:46 PM
I tell you what i soooooo ready to kick the next handy man that bids against me and low balls it a crazy a mount..... these kind of people have no idear what is in the work of doing the design and installing it the right way. they do shitty work and dont make any money and im ready to stuff them in a locker.
i cant be the only one getting shafted by the handy man- mowwing-hardscaper. driving a ford ranger with stick on letters....... ahhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:hammerhead:

DVS Hardscaper
09-04-2010, 09:18 PM
Tell us what seperates you from what you're referring to as "the handyman".

You have a $42,000,000.00 F-250? With 4wd? With a cool smelling Power Stroke dee-sol engine??

Or is it the brand new New Holland skid steer you just got that has all that apparatus on it that blocks operator visibility???


No, seriously - what qualifies you as the superior one?



,

nepatsfan
09-04-2010, 09:40 PM
16 pairs of hanes socks and 7 pairs of jeans

jonesy5149
09-05-2010, 12:00 PM
Tell us what seperates you from what you're referring to as "the handyman".

You have a $42,000,000.00 F-250? With 4wd? With a cool smelling Power Stroke dee-sol engine??

Or is it the brand new New Holland skid steer you just got that has all that apparatus on it that blocks operator visibility???


No, seriously - what qualifies you as the superior one?



,


Im not saying that im the super one at all but i do the back yard paradise and i do it for a living. then you get a person that works in a hardware store gets laid off and then works for him self by (handy man) and goes out to do some dry wall and the next week in the back yard driving over a septic cover and crushing the cover and trying to put in a design that has been build for the yard and gives a crazy low price... with no idea!!!!! thats what im talking about and if thats your style of business than pick a job and be good at it....

Kiril
09-05-2010, 12:15 PM
Im not saying that im the super one at all but i do the back yard paradise and i do it for a living. then you get a person that works in a hardware store gets laid off and then works for him self by (handy man) and goes out to do some dry wall and the next week in the back yard driving over a septic cover and crushing the cover and trying to put in a design that has been build for the yard and gives a crazy low price... with no idea!!!!! thats what im talking about and if thats your style of business than pick a job and be good at it....

:cry: :cry: :cry:

jonesy5149
09-05-2010, 12:27 PM
:cry:.......................yup thats the truth .....................:cry:

4Russl5
09-05-2010, 05:50 PM
Life in a recession market. It is more prevalent now that more people are unemployed. I have two good friends, laid off and need work, became/are 'handy men', unliscensed/bonded/insured/experienced. They under bid me on two projects and got the jobs. Both parties were happy. Me... I am cool with it. The homeowners and my friends are morons. Did either party consider who would cover a major/minor insurance claim? Plus I don't want to work for a client that wants the lowest quality work for the lowest price. They got what they paid for, and my friends did everything that was laid out in my estimates.

I think we all need to have a little compassion for people willing to work harder for less. We all have payments to make, even our neighbors who are unemployed and working in our field.

Decaf DBS Hardscaper!

jonesy5149
09-05-2010, 06:14 PM
Life in a recession market. It is more prevalent now that more people are unemployed. I have two good friends, laid off and need work, became/are 'handy men', unliscensed/bonded/insured/experienced. They under bid me on two projects and got the jobs. Both parties were happy. Me... I am cool with it. The homeowners and my friends are morons. Did either party consider who would cover a major/minor insurance claim? Plus I don't want to work for a client that wants the lowest quality work for the lowest price. They got what they paid for, and my friends did everything that was laid out in my estimates.

I think we all need to have a little compassion for people willing to work harder for less. We all have payments to make, even our neighbors who are unemployed and working in our field.

Decaf DBS Hardscaper!
Thank You....................well put:clapping::clapping:

RussellB
09-05-2010, 06:24 PM
The unlicensed part can get you in more trouble than I thought. A friend of mine in Maryland performed some cabinet work (he is good at it) and ended up being sued for a broken counter top. The judge gave him 6 months for working without a license. He is serving time now. Personally I think the sentence is way to severe. People are trying to feed their families.

mikeslawnlandscapeohio
09-05-2010, 06:39 PM
If you make a name out there for yourself, you have nothing to loss. I have been in your shoes and was as mad as you. But I learned, the people that are price shoping usally cant afford me, dont want perfect, and usally dont pay. All my current clients know me from word of mouth and never get a second bid. It will come in time. There will always be "HACKS" out there. It makes my work even look better and in some cases makes me more money, because I have to fix there mistakes.

DVS Hardscaper
09-05-2010, 06:55 PM
The unlicensed part can get you in more trouble than I thought. A friend of mine in Maryland performed some cabinet work (he is good at it) and ended up being sued for a broken counter top. The judge gave him 6 months for working without a license. He is serving time now. Personally I think the sentence is way to severe. People are trying to feed their families.


LOL - Gotta Love MD's Courts!

See, your friend shot himself in the foot.

Hindsite is always 20/20, but he should have taken care of the broken counter top and it would never have made it court.

What happens is, a contractor is sued or sues someone. The 1st question a MD judge will ask is "are you licensed"? If the answer is yes - the case proceeds. If the answer is no - you go to jail.

When I was an expert witness against another paver contractor - the other contractor's attorney questioned my licensing status during my testimony. I later heard the attorney whisper to her client "we'll check his license, if he's not licensed we'll get contempt charges on him"!! LOL

You can't even work under a GC on a residential property without a sub-contractors license in MD.


,

jonesy5149
09-05-2010, 08:43 PM
LOL - Gotta Love MD's Courts!

See, your friend shot himself in the foot.

Hindsite is always 20/20, but he should have taken care of the broken counter top and it would never have made it court.

What happens is, a contractor is sued or sues someone. The 1st question a MD judge will ask is "are you licensed"? If the answer is yes - the case proceeds. If the answer is no - you go to jail.

When I was an expert witness against another paver contractor - the other contractor's attorney questioned my licensing status during my testimony. I later heard the attorney whisper to her client "we'll check his license, if he's not licensed we'll get contempt charges on him"!! LOL



You can't even work under a GC on a residential property without a sub-contractors license in MD.


,

so if you have the right papers (licenses) you dont go to jail.... i guess that is why a person would have a license because he or she dose that for work:dancing:;)

stuvecorp
09-06-2010, 01:22 AM
You know, I'm sick of hearing about handyman or lowballers - who cares? It's the free market, you will never get all the bids or jobs(and seriously there is a lot of jobs I don't even want) and without the scrapers in the market how would people really see the difference between a well skillfully and well constructed hardscape project?

Stillwater
10-31-2010, 05:26 AM
No such thing as a low baller

Woodland
10-31-2010, 08:31 AM
No such thing as a low baller

Not true. A lowballer is one who knowingly and intentionally underbids a job so they can get it. This is not as common as people on this forum complaining about think. What most are referring to, and this post in particular, are morons who should not be working for themselves. These are people who think they're doing things right but the don't know how to do the work properly, don't have the proper equipment and don't know how or what to charge for their work. They might do very well working for someone else, being told what to do and when, but can't do it successfully on their own. These guy are VERY prevalent in this business but fortunately, like the lowballer, won't last more than a couple of seasons.

stan the man
10-31-2010, 06:51 PM
all account use me as handyman. i have done a lot walkway and deck for my accounts and i am not cheap i was higher then the another lco. so bit**ing of a handyman is not the way to go.

jonesy5149
10-31-2010, 08:39 PM
all account use me as handyman. i have done a lot walkway and deck for my accounts and i am not cheap i was higher then the another lco. so bit**ing of a handyman is not the way to go.

Yaaaaa your right so i just open the mowing aspect to my portfolio...thanks for the advise :laugh:

Stillwater
11-01-2010, 09:59 AM
Not true. A lowballer is one who knowingly and intentionally underbids a job so they can get it. This is not as common as people on this forum complaining about think. What most are referring to, and this post in particular, are morons who should not be working for themselves. These are people who think they're doing things right but the don't know how to do the work properly, don't have the proper equipment and don't know how or what to charge for their work. They might do very well working for someone else, being told what to do and when, but can't do it successfully on their own. These guy are VERY prevalent in this business but fortunately, like the lowballer, won't last more than a couple of seasons.

Not everyone offering services for lower cost is what you call a low baller. Some can becouse their costs are less. If what you say is true where is the problem? watch your debt. Not every business even if they do things right stays in business.

DVS Hardscaper
11-01-2010, 04:52 PM
Not everyone offering services for lower cost is what you call a low baller. Some can becouse their costs are less. If what you say is true where is the problem? watch your debt. Not every business even if they do things right stays in business.


In this area, most full fledged hardscapers come and go.

LB1234
11-01-2010, 10:00 PM
instead of blaming the "handyman" or "lowballer" or whomever you want to call them...blame the homeowner for choosing the lowest bidder...which really should indicate you did a poor job of selling the project and informing the customer (justifying) why you charge what you do. If they still insist on choosing the lowest bid then ask yourself if you really want them as a customer.:nono:


And I'm one of those "lawn jockey's" that performs hardscape installs...should I be upset when the "hardscaper" bids significantly lower?:laugh:

Welcome to the real world.

4Russl5
11-01-2010, 10:28 PM
Winter is right around the corner and if those of you are concerned about 'low ballers' this summer, you are going to terrified of them this winter. Take your eyes off your shoes and fix it on the horizon with a plan in mind for your business 5-10-15 years from now.

I am full fledged hardscaper and it is tough. But your view DBS Hardscaper is all yours. What makes me even more work challenged is we offer no concrete product services. All Natural stone.

My point... I have a plan, am meeting( and missing some of )my goals, tweaking where we need to, and booking projects for next year this fall in a tiny town in the NorthWest.

Let's focus on the positive boys and girls!

Did a 'dirt farmer' insult a 'lawn jockey'? Geez!

stan the man
11-02-2010, 02:51 AM
instead of blaming the "handyman" or "lowballer" or whomever you want to call them...blame the homeowner for choosing the lowest bidder...which really should indicate you did a poor job of selling the project and informing the customer (justifying) why you charge what you do. If they still insist on choosing the lowest bid then ask yourself if you really want them as a customer.:nono:


And I'm one of those "lawn jockey's" that performs hardscape installs...should I be upset when the "hardscaper" bids significantly lower?:laugh:

Welcome to the real world.

you are right on this one

DVS Hardscaper
11-02-2010, 10:03 AM
I believe natural stone and pavers are two different worlds.

NAtural stone is more creativity and craftsmanship, and you MUST have an eye for the work.

Most people that dabble in hardscapes lack in creativity. Lack In artistic abilities. I see it on this forum, I see it in real life.

Stone work - of course you have competition, but you're not saturated with competition.

There was an article in the Washington Post of two guys backyard that was transformed with stone. Very impressive work. I'll have to see if the Washington Post has on online link to the article.

.

4Russl5
11-03-2010, 08:37 AM
DVS..As contractors we know this. 95% of most home owners don't know beans about what we are qualified to do or not. They just call APPLES & Bananas Landscaping and believe they are qualified to do ANYTHING outside of the paint on their home. I update my website every year trying to clean up my views and services to educate the potential client to hire us over the 'Apples' company. There are a few clients every year that 'get it' and hire us because they did the research, and those are my best customers that help build a business for the future.

Low ballers and Handy Men don't even see the light of day for the work we do, and you do, and others. It is the little stuff they get under 5k that probably frustrates us. The missing small jobs between the big ones.....

Post a link if you can. I love seeing what people are doing around the country.

Woodland
11-03-2010, 07:50 PM
Not everyone offering services for lower cost is what you call a low baller. Some can becouse their costs are less. If what you say is true where is the problem? watch your debt. Not every business even if they do things right stays in business.

I'm not talking about contractors who offer services for a lower cost. These are true competitors that we all have to compete against whether through reducing costs, providing better service or finding a niche. I was talking about people who "underbid" a job. They bid a job for less than what it is worth (THEIR cost + profit) just so they can get the job. These are not competitive bids based on one companies lean operational cost that allows them to do jobs for less. These are companies that make minimal if any profit on a job just so they can win the bid.

jonesy5149
11-03-2010, 07:52 PM
http://enterprisedesigninc.com/ just popped this one up this summer. still working on getting the rest to it but not a cheap deal

jonesy5149
11-03-2010, 07:58 PM
i have a great one......... handy man style bid a job at 15670.00 and then i get the call back to come give one more chance at the job...... what????? ok so i went he had a plan there for his guy and said he can do this for 7300.00 haaaaaaaaaaa im out and there it is ill stay home and lose money instead of going there to lose money..

4Russl5
11-03-2010, 08:19 PM
Miring in the labyrinth about this is affecting your spirit in negative ways. Let this stuff drag you down and you'll wear it on your face when the potential client opens their door and greets you.

Let it go....

I had a guy at Home Depot come running up to me for advice for plumbing fixtures for a job he got as a 'Handy Man'! My assistant and I nicely told him we were Dirt Farmers, not plumbers. Then laughed as he ran across the parking lot to the next contractor truck.

I am much happier hanging out at home losing money like Jonesy5149... especially when I can take time to enjoy my own landscape for once!

jonesy5149
11-03-2010, 08:20 PM
Miring in the labyrinth about this is affecting your spirit in negative ways. Let this stuff drag you down and you'll wear it on your face when the potential client opens their door and greets you.

Let it go....

I had a guy at Home Depot come running up to me for advice for plumbing fixtures for a job he got as a 'Handy Man'! My assistant and I nicely told him we were Dirt Farmers, not plumbers. Then laughed as he ran across the parking lot to the next contractor truck.

I am much happier hanging out at home losing money like Jonesy5149... especially when I can take time to enjoy my own landscape for once!

:):):)yes sir:):):):)

DVS Hardscaper
11-03-2010, 08:29 PM
It's funny, just the other day in this topic I was writing about how most hardscapers lack the ability to work with stone. And I wrote about how most hardscapers lack creativity.

Ok, now I hate rude, loud people. On the other hand, I take this industry seriously. If I see or hear something that is wrong - I'll speak up. With that said, I know there is a chance this person may lurk / participate on this forum, and I may be opening up a can of worms.

Today I was bored and surfing the net on my phone. I cam across a local guy's advertisement on the web. His pics came up and my eyes went straight to this picture (see below).

Ok, so there is a bunch of text talkin about his business, yadda yadda yadda.

I came across this line!!! Which I find comical - considering the picture shown below, as well as other pics of mis-textured, bland work on his ad.

" The level of overall design talent and professional expertise we have on our staff within our Landscape Design and Sales Department is truly impressive, and is unmatched by our competitors."


Ok, now the only reason I'm posting is is because I was just writing about how *so called* hardscapers don't have a clue about design and artistic abilities. Low and behold 2 days later this photo pops up! LOL

This pic shows nothing but a PILE of rocks with water running between them. I see this all the time. Not from this company, but I mean in general. I dont even know what you call it. It doesn't at all look natural. It's choppy! It's HIDEOUS. Absolutely positively pathetic. The (omit the 4 letter swear word here) light isn't even straight!!! For someone to use such a pic on their advertisement - they must truely believe it's a job well done. An example of why it's important to educate the client and take the time to inform them of what we're about......and what we're NOT about.

Elections were just yesterday. All the candidates boast how they'll lower taxes, make a smaller gov't, and create jobs. LOL - seems all us business owners boast how we're the best. I think I'll let our customers and prospective customers be the judge of whether we're the best or not. Pictures are worth a thousand words......



,

DVS Hardscaper
11-03-2010, 09:03 PM
wrong button

4Russl5
11-03-2010, 09:35 PM
That water feature actually looks like the creator has never been hiking and seen how water moves in nature.

sgallaher
11-04-2010, 11:53 PM
Hey, a few years after you lose a client to a low-baller drop them a letter seeing if they need any services. If the low-baller really sucked at the work they'll contact you to fix it then you'll charge the regular price plus extra to tear out the crappy job. Everybody gets outbid. Only the true pros last. The "handy men" will be back at their regular job soon as the economy continues to recover.

stan the man
11-05-2010, 08:44 AM
well i know that i am not going any where. you guy i don't like this handyman hammering . just use the low-baller makes me if better. i am same as you guy. all my accounts use me handyman lol