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Hardscaping
09-07-2010, 11:51 PM
I just finished doing a quote on a big paver job of 7500 sq ft driveway. to take up and clean and relay and regrade, 1200 sq ft of which is new material as a border.


I quoted the job to completely redo the base 24 inches deep, the 1200 sq ft of border stone which is unilock copthorne and unilock courstone mix.

The guy already has two quotes to do the driveway. I presented him with the quote to completely redo and he almost crapped himself. I quoted at just over 80 grand. He told me i was quite a bit higher then the other guys.

they apparently only quoted to take out, clean, and relay the original interlock, with adding 600 sq ft of border of unilock umbriano. These companies apparently came in at a quote of under $20,000.00 I almost lost my nuts when he said that. What do you guys think.

I am supplying 100 bags of polymeric sand
up to 20 yards of gravel for leveling
25 yards of #2 sand
600 ft of court stone interlock
650 to 700 ft of copthorne laid on a 45degree angle in between the double border court stone
just going to level the current base without removing.
re-use old edgers
I am also putting one 65 sq ft star in the driveway and one smaller 35 sq ft star made from the same materials as the border.

Pretty much they are offering the same as me except i am offering the extra interior border with the copthorne.

no matter how i look at it i can only come up with a number of just over 40,000.00

Even if i only offer the single border instead of the interior border. i am pricing at just over 30,000.00

These are lowest prices i can come up with i don't even think these prices are high enough.

If anybody can possibly explain why they would ever do this job for under $20,000.00 i would appreciate it.

DVS Hardscaper
09-08-2010, 12:33 AM
When a person tells me they received quotes for super low numbers I will ask to see the quote. Now, I know darn well I am NOT going to lower the price, but I'll say "e-mail or fax me the quote and I'll take a look at it and see what we can do".

Sometimes people will tell you they received a lower quote when the truth is - they didn't - they're just trying to see if you'll do the work for the money they were envisioning spending.



,

zedosix
09-08-2010, 04:05 PM
When a person tells me they received quotes for super low numbers I will ask to see the quote. Now, I know darn well I am NOT going to lower the price, but I'll say "e-mail or fax me the quote and I'll take a look at it and see what we can do".

Sometimes people will tell you they received a lower quote when the truth is - they didn't - they're just trying to see if you'll do the work for the money they were envisioning spending.



,

What he said! ^ Does he realize that umbriano and copthorne is like $10sq.ft.
If the base is good then a relay could be done at $5sq.ft. add material (mark it up to list) and a realistic labour cost. You will see the real #'s then. Of course offer no warranty with a relay.

Hardscaping
09-08-2010, 04:14 PM
5 dollars is a little high for that size for my area. I repriced to reflect the job being done the same as the other guys, I got down to around 28000 for the job, includng the border being done the same as the other guys. I don't know why someone would bid that job under that. I am going to tell the guy if he is interested in me pricing any lower I need to get a copy of one of his quotes.
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mikeslawnlandscapeohio
09-08-2010, 04:16 PM
Wow, your price is low in my mind. I charge $15.00 per square foot. If he can get it done for $20,000.00. you will be back to fix the other guys work in a few years.

Hardscaping
09-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Someone will be back there to fix it either way, the guy doesn't want to redo the base. Just fill in a couple areas, the base seems alright but not good enough that I am giving any waranty on the interlock shifting at all.
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zedosix
09-08-2010, 06:18 PM
75 pallets of brick is alot of brick to have to lift, clean and relay. Good luck. What kind of brick is laid there now?

wurkn with amish
09-08-2010, 06:19 PM
if the base was fine none of you would be pricing to redo the job in the first place......

mikeslawnlandscapeohio
09-08-2010, 06:21 PM
if the base was fine none of you would be pricing to redo the job in the first place......

What do you mean???

Hardscaping
09-08-2010, 06:24 PM
First of all main reason for redoing the driveway is weeds in joints. There are only a couple very small areas that have sunken in only a very litle they just bought the house and want to fix up thos minor things. There is currently stratford stone there
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zedosix
09-08-2010, 06:24 PM
What do you mean???

What do you mean? "what do you mean?"

kootoomootoo
09-08-2010, 10:37 PM
isnt this the same post from a few years ago...

Hardscaping
09-08-2010, 11:41 PM
no it is not the same post.

this is a complete different driveway.

Moneypit
09-09-2010, 01:25 AM
Wow, your price is low in my mind. I charge $15.00 per square foot.

For a relay? I highly doubt it.

Hardscaping: I've constantly heard of others getting way underbid on jobs. For some reason it has not effected me untill just recently. 6 of my last 10 estimates nearly had heart failure when they heard my price because of the numbers they had already recieved.
One guy actually hung up on me after accusing me of trying to steal from him. Oh well.

kootoomootoo
09-09-2010, 07:30 PM
no it is not the same post.

this is a complete different driveway.

same drama

wurkn with amish
09-09-2010, 08:02 PM
Ok,
if there's nothing wrong with the base, fix the couple of low spots clean the cracks with a pressure washer the resand with poly. No reason to take up the whole thing. Now if the joints are widening then your wrong and you need to reevaluate the project.

Hardscaping
09-09-2010, 09:55 PM
same drama


Go stick it up somewhere. stop trying to get off topic.

Hardscaping
09-09-2010, 09:57 PM
Ok,
if there's nothing wrong with the base, fix the couple of low spots clean the cracks with a pressure washer the resand with poly. No reason to take up the whole thing. Now if the joints are widening then your wrong and you need to reevaluate the project.


Now that you said this i can see how the guys are able to do the job for under 20 grand. they are not taking it all up, there is no way they are. they must only be taking up enough to do border and washing out the joints, and resanding with poly. only removing interlock from the few spots that are low and fixing those areas.

i am going to call him and ask him this, because if this is the case then i can get to the same area as the other guys. Thanks for opening my eyes on that.

DVS Hardscaper
09-10-2010, 10:52 AM
Do you wanna sell the people a Volkswagon, or do you wanna sell them a Cadillac?

Tread lightly on trying to sell someone a Rolls Royce if they can only afford a Cadillac.

Hardscaping
09-10-2010, 02:07 PM
They can afford anything you throw at them, but they don't get rich by spending all of their money.
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DVS Hardscaper
09-10-2010, 03:25 PM
They can afford anything you throw at them, but they don't get rich by spending all of their money.
Posted via Mobile Device


I dont think you're getting my point.



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Hardscaping
09-10-2010, 07:13 PM
Please explain, i guess i don't understand.

I am assuming you mean that i shouldn't sell them something they don't want, but don't under or over sell it. When trying to over sell to be very carefull in how i do it.

4 seasons lawn&land
09-10-2010, 09:00 PM
80 grand? I say your on crack! And why 24" base???? Isnt 6" under pavers the standard, 8" total excavation?

Hardscaping
09-10-2010, 09:21 PM
80 grand? I say your on crack! And why 24" base???? Isnt 6" under pavers the standard, 8" total excavation?

You honestly have never installed a driveway right?

12 inch min base for driveway here.

4 seasons lawn&land
09-10-2010, 09:37 PM
Okay then 24 is double then what is neccessary. Are you dealing with horrible drainage or what?

No I havent done a drive. I wouldnt take on a job that size. Im still puzzled by 80k however.

DVS Hardscaper
09-11-2010, 12:42 AM
I have seen the minimum base specs for vehicular use at 8-inches.

We do ours at 12-inches. The x-tra 4-inches is cheap insurance, reeducing the need for a callback.

Hardscaping
09-11-2010, 12:51 AM
The 24 inches is my insurance. much better base means that i will not be going back there, my last driveway was 30 inches deep. the customer understands the extra charge is worth it.

DVS Hardscaper
09-11-2010, 09:59 AM
i fully understand the clay issues. 24-30 inches sounds quite extreme. And at those depths I would have an engineer come in and do soil tests and spec the base installation.


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4 seasons lawn&land
09-11-2010, 10:10 AM
thats why your so far out right there! Thats a ton of aggregate. A ton of spreading/compacting work, trucking in, trucking out....and all for work that isnt necessary.

OutdoorCreations
09-11-2010, 06:07 PM
I have to agree. 10- 12" is pretty standard. I could see maybe doing 15" in troublesome spots, but 24" no way.

jonesy5149
09-11-2010, 06:53 PM
also if you are really worried about call back 10 to 12 inches of 3/4 rock and 500x fabric and 300x for the sand.That would be loads of less work and fast to lay down. and also on a relay job why by the sf?? great way to lose money.

DVS Hardscaper
09-12-2010, 01:39 AM
The 24 inches is my insurance. much better base means that i will not be going back there, my last driveway was 30 inches deep. the customer understands the extra charge is worth it.

Ok, then whats the point in this thread??? Obviously the "customer" DOES NOT "understand" or this thread would not exist.

I'm not a soils engineer, nor am I familiar with your soil conditions.

But, Dude, you're crying about being underbid, and some of us are offering you pointers on careful competitive job costing and you don't appear to be interested in taking some of our points into consideration, you keep justifying your method(s) that obviously aren't working.

How many driveways have you ACTUALLY started and completed??

How many inches of base does the local town have under the asphalt of their brand new road??



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mrusk
09-12-2010, 12:10 PM
I am surpised that no one has mentioned that unless your a expert in compaction you very well could increase your chance of settling by doing 24" of base. If one lift is to large....

Hardscaping
09-12-2010, 11:20 PM
I can understand what everyone is saying, i cannot understand why anybody would say 80 grand to completely redo a 7500 sq ft driveway is out of hand. I don't need to argue my methods of installation, i am really confident in them.

I just did not understand how come people are pricing that low, but thanks to me listening to some comments to some of you guys, i understand how they are bidding it. I am not arguing anything against you guys nor do i want to argue. I appreciate all of your opinions and i have already figured out what to do about my issue. Thank you.

There is no need to turn this into a big bitching match.

PatriotLandscape
09-14-2010, 01:24 PM
So whats the number? how many have you installed this way?

Hardscaping
09-14-2010, 02:05 PM
I have installed 7 driveways under my company name. also have installed approx 10 000 sq ft of patios. I have also been in business for only tgree years now. Why does it matter? Honestly how many have you guys installed.
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Hardscaping
09-14-2010, 05:31 PM
All driveways are installed differently compared to what the customer wants to pay for. I have installed three driveways with more than 18 inches of gravel.

A patio i installed was 32 inches deep. reason is because the builders here are bullshit when they back fill and use alot of clay. The clay retains alot of moisture and i don't want to fix the patio so i tell them this is what it costs, you get me to do it, or no warranty.

Hardscaping
09-14-2010, 05:36 PM
I don't understand why you guys need to bring up how much interlock i have done. You have to learn how to stay on track and not try to turn everything into an argument, this forum is suppose to be for helping people, not arguing with them and telling them that they shouldn't do anything. Everybody needs to learn things one way or another, so just learn to help or keep your mouths shut.

jonesy5149
09-14-2010, 08:27 PM
All driveways are installed differently compared to what the customer wants to pay for. I have installed three driveways with more than 18 inches of gravel.

A patio i installed was 32 inches deep. reason is because the builders here are bullshit when they back fill and use alot of clay. The clay retains alot of moisture and i don't want to fix the patio so i tell them this is what it costs, you get me to do it, or no warranty.

(thats what i do as well just for the warranty aspect...) maybe i would go 2 feet of 3/4 rock but all the same... driveways are the number one on the not go skinny.. you never know what s going to get parked on it.:)

jonesy5149
09-14-2010, 08:29 PM
I am surpised that no one has mentioned that unless your a expert in compaction you very well could increase your chance of settling by doing 24" of base. If one lift is to large....

also if the lift is to large that is nobodies fault but your own!!

Green Side Up!
09-19-2010, 11:16 AM
I would walk away.

Hardscaping
09-19-2010, 03:18 PM
Already did.