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View Full Version : and it was still running - LMAO


SuperPROlawnScalper
09-11-2010, 12:15 AM
exmark lazer z 60" 27hp kohler

omg i can't believe this thing was still running, let alone cutting tall thick grass like a tank.
look at that damn spark plug, how was it even sparking

other than using oil, backfiring was only indication something was wrong.
figure with the hole in the valve it would have been backfiring a lot, but it wasnt

i let the guys at the shop hear it. they thought maybe a bent rod. get it apart and it looked like this.

2 blown head gaskets
1 head is able to be cleaned
other head needs replaced

1st 2 pics are of each cylinder
pic 3 and 4 are the junk head
last pic of the new head

SuperPROlawnScalper
09-11-2010, 12:17 AM
some carbon that fell into the cylinder when the bad head was removed

Restrorob
09-11-2010, 09:25 AM
Obviously, It was only running on half a one cylinder...... ;)

SuperPROlawnScalper
09-11-2010, 09:57 AM
that's what i thought too, just amazes me what this machine would do running on one cylinder
i can't wait till it's done so i can try it out - they're waiting on valves to come in

unkownfl
09-12-2010, 10:22 PM
Why didn't they just fix that head? You should clean the carbon off once in awhile with some water man. LOL little late now though.

SuperPROlawnScalper
09-13-2010, 12:14 AM
what do you mean clean it off with water

USFGUY
09-13-2010, 01:48 AM
Why didn't they just fix that head? You should clean the carbon off once in awhile with some water man. LOL little late now though.

or diesel... old mechanics trick.. running engine.. slowly pour in diesel till engine dies... let sit overnight.. restart in morning.. will be hard to start and smoke like crazy but it does clean out the carbon. :)

SuperPROlawnScalper
09-13-2010, 02:04 AM
where do you pour the diesel, in the carb?

they said the carbon buildup was from blown head gasket
i guessing that water/diesel wouldn't help in this situation

what is the water/diesel trick for, preventative maintenance ?

cgaengineer
09-13-2010, 07:00 AM
or diesel... old mechanics trick.. running engine.. slowly pour in diesel till engine dies... let sit overnight.. restart in morning.. will be hard to start and smoke like crazy but it does clean out the carbon. :)

I would never do this. The reason this seems to work is 2 days later anyone doing this is rebuilding the engine. Never pour liquid into a running engine.
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USFGUY
09-13-2010, 10:24 AM
I would never do this. The reason this seems to work is 2 days later anyone doing this is rebuilding the engine. Never pour liquid into a running engine.
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I've done it for years. Never on a fuel injected engine though.
Seafoam http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-use-sea-foam-motor-treatment.html still says to slowly pour 1/3 to 1/2 a can into a running motor to clean carbon.

Many people recommend water for cleaning out carbon but the one time I tried it, it didn't work but the diesel did.

Then again there are tons of old "tricks" that work but probally are not that good for the engine. Like pouring some ATF in the oil pan to quiet lifter noise. :)

cgaengineer
09-13-2010, 11:56 AM
The thing is, if you have that much carbon something else is wrong inside.

Seafoam=oil and alcohol in a cool looking metal can that costs a lot of money.
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SuperPROlawnScalper
09-13-2010, 01:05 PM
The thing is, if you have that much carbon something else is wrong inside.

Seafoam=oil and alcohol in a cool looking metal can that costs a lot of money.
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yes, it had blown head gaskets. the one with all the carbon was leaking bad
the other looks like it is small

cgaengineer
09-13-2010, 01:57 PM
yes, it had blown head gaskets. the one with all the carbon was leaking bad
the other looks like it is small

That's what I was getting at, so in other words, you are waisting time with the ole water in the carb trick if you have a carbon problem.

Tell me this, if you have a carbon problem so bad that water is needed to "clean" the combustion chamber, what's makes anyone think that the spark plugs would be good enough to even run the engine, no less the engine even running on its own due to other problems?
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TLS
09-13-2010, 02:38 PM
Couple disturbing things here.

But first...how many hours on the engine/machine?

Why wasn't the engine pressure washed prior to being disassembled?

Is it really worth putting ONE new head on an engine thats been running poorly this long?

Are you going to fix the oil leak?

Are you going to clean the engine in general?


And lastly, if your above say 1500hrs, why not just buy a new engine?

The time, effort, money spent on this engine to fix could be put towards a new engine.


Just wondering, thats all.

SuperPROlawnScalper
09-14-2010, 12:55 AM
That's what I was getting at, so in other words, you are waisting time with the ole water in the carb trick if you have a carbon problem.

Tell me this, if you have a carbon problem so bad that water is needed to "clean" the combustion chamber, what's makes anyone think that the spark plugs would be good enough to even run the engine, no less the engine even running on its own due to other problems?
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not sure what you mean... i never put water in it





Couple disturbing things here.

But first...how many hours on the engine/machine?
over 2200

Why wasn't the engine pressure washed prior to being disassembled?
i asked them why they didn't wash it. they said they were gonna wash it after it's put back together

Is it really worth putting ONE new head on an engine thats been running poorly this long?
that's just it, it wasn't running poorly. look at the pic, it goes through that like a tank. it did use oil and backfire at low rpm.
for only one new head... they said they could clean the other one

Are you going to fix the oil leak?
i guess it will be fixed. they said the oil leak was because the gaskets were blown

Are you going to clean the engine in general?
they are when done also i will have a close eye on it, keeping it clean for the air cooling and to make it easy to spot any leaks/other issues in the future

And lastly, if your above say 1500hrs, why not just buy a new engine?
The time, effort, money spent on this engine to fix could be put towards a new engine.
i was thinking new engine because of the hrs but it seems to run strong on one cylinder so i'll try it with 2 cylinders and see what happens. maybe new engine next season and if this one runs good i'll just buy some metal and suspension kits and build a mini-buggy with/for my kids

Just wondering, thats all.
NP, all valid issues

cgaengineer
09-14-2010, 01:19 AM
My post wasn't directed towards you Super...it was for the fellow that suggested dumping water into an engine.
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TLS
09-14-2010, 08:16 AM
If you don't mind posting, how much was the bill for this job?

2200hrs and I have a hard time believing a competent mechanic/dealer wouldn't suggest a new engine.

I'm concerned with the wear put on the bottom end with the backfiring and low compression on ONE cylinder.

I find it hard to believe the oil leak was just the head gasket.

Good luck with it, and let us know when it's up and running!

USFGUY
09-14-2010, 09:41 AM
The not washing the engine before disassembly would concern me.

Why would they clean it after reassembly and possibly get even a grain of sand in the oil could scour a crankshaft journal, carve a nice ring into the cam bearing surface, and then possibly make its way into the cylinder between the piston skirt and cylinder wall scoring it within a few minutes of start-up!
Or lets say 1 grain of sand gets onto a gasket and keeps the seal from being effective and it starts leaking again. Are you going to pay them for another tear down and gasket or will they do it free of charge?

I have always cleaned an engine before disassembly. Why wouldn't they spray some degreaser and rinse it off at the very least?

I could understand it if they were going to hot tank the block and run the aluminum parts through degreaser sink.

An engine SHOULD be absolutely clean before reassembly.

cgaengineer
09-14-2010, 09:45 AM
The not washing the engine before disassembly would concern me.

Why would they clean it after reassembly and possibly get even a grain of sand in the oil could scour a crankshaft journal, carve a nice ring into the cam bearing surface, and then possibly make its way into the cylinder between the piston skirt and cylinder wall scoring it within a few minutes of start-up!
Or lets say 1 grain of sand gets onto a gasket and keeps the seal from being effective and it starts leaking again. Are you going to pay them for another tear down and gasket or will they do it free of charge?

I have always cleaned an engine before disassembly. Why wouldn't they spray some degreaser and rinse it off at the very least?

I could understand it if they were going to hot tank the block and run the aluminum parts through degreaser sink.

An engine SHOULD be absolutely clean before reassembly.

I agree. Maybe they plan on cleaning each part after disassembly?
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piston slapper
09-14-2010, 11:38 AM
If you find a mechanic who can read the parts( look at the parts and know if they are good or bad and why ) 2000-3000 hr engines are rebuildable. I've done many that lasted another 2000-3000 hrs. Cleanliness is everything when working inside an engine.

SuperPROlawnScalper
09-14-2010, 12:14 PM
If you don't mind posting, how much was the bill for this job?
actually got off phone with them a lil bit ago. now it needs the other head too
guess they were cleaning it and saw it is cracked
cost 550

2200hrs and I have a hard time believing a competent mechanic/dealer wouldn't suggest a new engine.
they did, i was hoping to limp this one along a lil more

I'm concerned with the wear put on the bottom end with the backfiring and low compression on ONE cylinder.
it hasn't been compression tested

I find it hard to believe the oil leak was just the head gasket.
me too

Good luck with it, and let us know when it's up and running!
thanks




The not washing the engine before disassembly would concern me.

I agree. Maybe they plan on cleaning each part after disassembly?
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now i'm like http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg256/scaled.php?tn=0&server=256&filename=fingerchew.gif&xsize=640&ysize=640




i'm gonna stop in there later, gotta do a cpl mows then take their loaner back

TLS
09-14-2010, 12:43 PM
actually got off phone with them a lil bit ago. now it needs the other head too
guess they were cleaning it and saw it is cracked
cost 550

That sounds cheap...

Two heads with valves, springs, etc are $424

How much labor @ $60-90/hr???

A brand new 27 is $2K and is an easy install on a Lazer.

SuperPROlawnScalper
09-14-2010, 04:31 PM
That sounds cheap...

Two heads with valves, springs, etc are $424

How much labor @ $60-90/hr???

A brand new 27 is $2K and is an easy install on a Lazer.

the 550 was for just one new head, really they told me between 500 & 550

labor @ 60/hr - not sure what they're doing for hours in it

they're gonna add 120 for the other head. i went in back and saw it, it was cracked in that narrow part between the valves. mech said he never saw a 4-stroke cracked there and that it's usually the 2-strokes crack in that area