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MDLawn
09-15-2010, 11:04 AM
Ok, this question is pretty vague but was just curious and it is NOT about pricing. Lets take a 300 sq ft patio project. Easy access and no real material movement problems. What is your average time frame for an installation like this using all the right tools/machines? Again this is your perfect install conditions, if you ever have them! I don't offer paver installations but would like to attempt a patio at my own home. I've done courses/seminars but not too much actual hands on. Want to see how much longer it takes me (oh and I am sure it will be much longer) than the average hardscaper to complete. Maybe for those of you who have been doing this for a long time, look back to when you started and even now. I'm sure I'll be getting asked by a certain someone "Well how long is this project going to take you!!!" :dizzy: so I want to give somewhat of an answer.


Some specifics might be:

8-10" Ecavation
Geotexile
6" deep (crusher run) base
1" sand
multiple shape paver (Unilock Brussells Block)

Any help/ideas appreciated.


Thanks!

neversatisfiedj
09-15-2010, 11:40 AM
Rectangle or curved ? Soldier course ?

MDLawn
09-15-2010, 11:49 AM
Rectangle or curved ? Soldier course ?

Sorry. Straight along the house and sides then curved on the length of the patio. The one end may have 8 ft of patio width and the other 12. So a gradual curve to connect the two, make sense?. Yes soldier course.

DVS Hardscaper
09-15-2010, 12:10 PM
I have a job efficiency sheet which is derived from years of patio construction that tells me averages.

But wehn a client asks me how long to do - I just look at my trusty computer screen and my super dooper looper job costing program tells me exactly how many days :)


.

MDLawn
09-15-2010, 12:30 PM
I have a job efficiency sheet which is derived from years of patio construction that tells me averages.

But wehn a client asks me how long to do - I just look at my trusty computer screen and my super dooper looper job costing program tells me exactly how many days :)


.


OK........... This is not for a client but for a project at my own home. I was just looking for a time frame for installing this type of project to give me an idea of how long. That way I can see what a professional hardscapers time frame is compared to my time, which will be much longer. Just looking for an idea of this.

PatriotLandscape
09-15-2010, 06:58 PM
For my one thousandth post the answer is..................


















54 man hours. 3 guys 2 days 9 hour days.

PatriotLandscape
09-15-2010, 06:59 PM
wow now I am a bronze member. sweeet.

DVS Hardscaper
09-15-2010, 08:47 PM
wow now I am a bronze member. sweeet.

Congrats to climbing to my caliber! :weightlifter:

zedosix
09-15-2010, 08:58 PM
If conditions perfect and material delivered to site, excluding the clean up. Max. 2 days with three men. Brussels has to be the easiest brick to lay, especially the "Y" pattern.

MDLawn
09-15-2010, 09:29 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Much appreciated. So I am looking at a full week by myself...............great.......ha!

kootoomootoo
09-15-2010, 10:59 PM
no mention of stairs but i was thinking 1 guy 2 days ie 20 man hrs.

zedosix
09-15-2010, 11:01 PM
no mention of stairs but i was thinking 1 guy 2 days ie 20 man hrs.

What planet did you say you were from?

Hardscaping
09-16-2010, 12:41 AM
no mention of stairs but i was thinking 1 guy 2 days ie 20 man hrs.

I agree, with my small skid steer. one guy two days, two guys one day 20 man hours. I would prefer 2 guys one day. I just did a 315 sq ft patio the a couple weeks ago there was 25 man hours into it without my skidsteer.

zedosix
09-16-2010, 06:41 AM
I agree, with my small skid steer. one guy two days, two guys one day 20 man hours. I would prefer 2 guys one day. I just did a 315 sq ft patio the a couple weeks ago there was 25 man hours into it without my skidsteer.

So basically what you are saying is one man does the job alone right, because one guy needs to be running the skid steer (which is the wrong tool to dig a patio btw especially in clay such as your area) and the other guy is hauling the fill out of there. So now you are alone doing this patio. Then with your mini skid steer you are going to fill the patio one bucket at a time, which is how much in your small skid? wheelbarrow and a half at most? Now lets assume that the granular stone is dumped in the front yard and the patio is out back, thats alot of time invested in driving back and forth with the skid (small skid that is) then what I want to know is who is doing the compacting while you are running back and forth, if its you then aint no one hauling granular and raking it while you are doing this. I don't have time to go on about it but in the real world that job is not feasible in twenty hours. I gotta get to work, have a nice day.

DVS Hardscaper
09-16-2010, 07:53 AM
i didnt site here and cost this out.

But a 300 SF patio would takes us no less than 2 days. re-grading, seeding, cleaning the road, etc. 1 day for the excavating / base install. 1 day for the paver install, cut pavers, install poly sand. Plus probably 3 hrs for the grading / seeding. MAybe 1 hr for the cleaning of the street.

Not to mention the time for loading and mobilizing the tools and equipment. Unloading scraps at the yard, unloading left over pavers, etc., at the yard. Very important to account for such.

This veteran contractor whom is known for quality and detail knows it'll be no less than 2 1/2 days. And really, we all know there is no such thing as 1/2 day of work.




,

wurkn with amish
09-16-2010, 11:26 AM
We would be at 3 days with 3 men. no 1/2 day charge by the time your done screwing around with the small stuff-- like DVS said
Also have 2 trucks on the job, a miniex, and possibly skid loader of some sorts, saws, compactor, and various other tools to get the job done.

westernmdlawn
09-16-2010, 03:40 PM
I agree, realistically 3 days with 2 guys. Maybe a 3rd guy when you are laying pavers or cutting and sweeping joint sand depending, and cleaning up. Depends on how you operate of course, but there is no way to do all of that work in 20 man hours - not even close.

I would have a mini-excavator and my one ton dump truck there for sure, in addition to all the smaller tools.

Hardscaping
09-17-2010, 12:35 AM
You guys are ridiculous and saying that a 300 sq ft patio should take 3 days with 3 guys.

maybe if it was some intricate design then i could understand, but come on, 90 man hours to do a 300 sq ft patio. to dig and install base with two guys it should take no longer than 5 hours with a small skid steer. with a regular base of 8 inches, at 300 ft you only have 8 yards of material coming out and 8 going in. if you cannot move 16 yards of material with a small skid steer within five hours then you really need to get some training on how to use you machine.

Just yesturday i put 15 yards of topsoil into a backyard within an hour and half as well as spread by myself. So with two guys and a skid steer you cannot move that much within five hours and compact it, then you should rethink your labor.

Hardscaping
09-17-2010, 12:47 AM
Also i am one of the guys on every job that i do, so i guess that would make a difference.

I guess i can understand two laborers 35 man hours without me being one of the labor. that is understandable.

steve5966
09-17-2010, 01:35 AM
You guys are ridiculous and saying that a 300 sq ft patio should take 3 days with 3 guys.

maybe if it was some intricate design then i could understand, but come on, 90 man hours to do a 300 sq ft patio. to dig and install base with two guys it should take no longer than 5 hours with a small skid steer. with a regular base of 8 inches, at 300 ft you only have 8 yards of material coming out and 8 going in. if you cannot move 16 yards of material with a small skid steer within five hours then you really need to get some training on how to use you machine.

Just yesturday i put 15 yards of topsoil into a backyard within an hour and half as well as spread by myself. So with two guys and a skid steer you cannot move that much within five hours and compact it, then you should rethink your labor.

300 square? A little over 2 days with 3 guys, no skid or mini-ex or pad to tear out. If your guys can't hand dig and haul a 300 square patio, you may need new guys. Machines tear up the yard, feet don't.

Hardscaping
09-17-2010, 02:08 AM
As i said in a previous post that we did a 315 sq ft patio a few weeks back that took 25 man hours. that was hand digging me and one other guy, took us 3 hours to hand dig and move it all to street by wheel barrow (6 man hours). then another hour to clean up and dump the stuff (1.5 man hour). laborer leveled and compacted base before gravel installation (1 man hour). bring the gravel to back yard and spread and compact it. (4 man hours). Bring brick to back yard and install, (5 man hours). Cut the borders. (1.5 man hour). Install poly joint sand (1 man hour) grade around patio and lay new sod approx 150 sq ft. (3 man hours)

23 man hours. tell if i am wrong. this is what it took to do the job 315 sq ft, add a couple hours for incidentals. there you have it 25 man hours for a 300 sq ft patio. if you cannot do it in that time frame you are doing something wrong.

The place where we dug out was not hard to dig out, some areas around here are clay and some are sand, this was topsoil with a bit of sand.

wurkn with amish
09-17-2010, 04:18 PM
I guess some of us are just slow and not "Hardscaping" geniouses....
But at least I can bid my own work and not ask people here to help?????

neversatisfiedj
09-17-2010, 04:27 PM
[QUOTE=Hardscaping;3723544]As i said in a previous post that we did a 315 sq ft patio a few weeks back that took 25 man hours. that was hand digging me and one other guy, took us 3 hours to hand dig and move it all to street by wheel barrow (6 man hours). then another hour to clean up and dump the stuff (1.5 man hour). laborer leveled and compacted base before gravel installation (1 man hour). bring the gravel to back yard and spread and compact it. (4 man hours). Bring brick to back yard and install, (5 man hours). Cut the borders. (1.5 man hour). Install poly joint sand (1 man hour) grade around patio and lay new sod approx 150 sq ft. (3 man hours)


Pretty Impressive !!

PatriotLandscape
09-17-2010, 05:16 PM
well Hardscaping your just better than everyone arent you.

I fail to see any efficiencies though so I dont know how you could replicate that for every job hard work is not something you can replicate in ohter employees either they do or they dont. we knocked a 900 square patio out in 2 days a few weeks ago too. I will be damned if I now start bidding all my 900 square patios at that man hour rate though. The stars were alligned for that one.

zedosix
09-17-2010, 07:58 PM
In a perfect hardscape world our employees would only charge from the moment they put foot on the job and not from the shop in the morning. These hours and road time need to be taken in consideration as well. Its all part of the job and accountable hours put into the job. Im not impressed at all.

Hardscaping
09-18-2010, 08:22 PM
I am glad you guys see it my way. lmao. j/k i understand that it takes employess longer to do jobs when they don't have someone working their ass off and telling them what to do exactly.

I can understand with employees and not owners then yes it would take 3 of them 2 days. or 2 of them 3 days

Sorry for arguing with you guys. I understand as well the hours dicking around in the morning to just get them going, ( i pick my employees up and they don't start getting paid until on the job, then i take an hour away for lunch and driving them home. Half hour if they drive them elves to job.) So yes i can understand that there would be a few more hours here and there with them talking to each other and taking their time.

Hope things work out for you doing your own patio, i would say with just you, it will take about a full weekend (12 hours a day) plus the rest of the week to finish things off. bit by bit, just remember to get some tarps, if you are taking that long, you don't want it to rain on the patio it will just make things harder for you.