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View Full Version : Exmark LZ ~ what causes this?


CraigF
09-15-2010, 01:44 PM
2009 Lazer Z 60" ZTurn, less than 300 hours, light commercial use-this is the second one. Axle from drive motor. No curbs.

What do you think?

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2702/photofl.jpg

FireFighterHill
09-15-2010, 02:35 PM
Manufacturer defect. It could have had a micro crack or fracture. My bet would be that heat cycles from normal use caused the defect to show it self.

CraigF
09-15-2010, 05:27 PM
The right side axle went at 175 hours. New pump and drive motor installed by dealer, covered under warranty. Now the left side has done the same thing, about 100 hours later. They said they normally don't even cover 1 of these repairs; they call it abuse. I'm the only driver and my last machine was 13 years old and never had anything like this. So I don't think I'm abusing it-I'm just mowing. But needless to say, they don't want to cover this latest one...

mowerknower
09-15-2010, 05:30 PM
Those are heavy machines, If you ever skid on the pavement this is likly to happen. I have guys that go through those axles like crazy and other guys that never have a problem. So if you went through 2 I would say abuse.
It also could be possible that it happened before you bought it. Last year I was driving by the local Toro dealer and saw them popping wheelies with a brand new Toro 60inch ztr.

mowerknower
09-15-2010, 05:31 PM
Also, Have your dealer call exmark and see about getting a used shaft. Harold in the warranty department saves the shafts out of warranty returned wheel motors. They are perfectly good still. Just go one a couple weeks ago.

soloscaperman
09-15-2010, 05:59 PM
Going over bumpy lawns at full speed?

CraigF
09-16-2010, 11:43 AM
Going over bumpy lawns at full speed?

All lawns around here are bumpy. Certainly at times I've gone fast on that type of lawn. Again, same as with my last machine which ran great for 13 years. I hate to think that constitutes abuse..

mowerknower
09-16-2010, 12:12 PM
All lawns around here are bumpy. Certainly at times I've gone fast on that type of lawn. Again, same as with my last machine which ran great for 13 years. I hate to think that constitutes abuse..

Yes but your old mower was slower and lighter. Speed+Wieght+Running to the max=bad things

puppypaws
09-16-2010, 08:48 PM
2009 Lazer Z 60" ZTurn, less than 300 hours, light commercial use-this is the second one. Axle from drive motor. No curbs.

What do you think?

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2702/photofl.jpg

Are you the only one that has driven this mower? A manufacturer would tell you someone is backing this mower down on pavement, then slamming forward attempting to pull the front wheels.

Those are heavy machines, If you ever skid on the pavement this is likly to happen. I have guys that go through those axles like crazy and other guys that never have a problem. So if you went through 2 I would say abuse.
It also could be possible that it happened before you bought it. Last year I was driving by the local Toro dealer and saw them popping wheelies with a brand new Toro 60inch ztr.

CraigF
09-16-2010, 09:57 PM
Are you the only one that has driven this mower? A manufacturer would tell you someone is backing this mower down on pavement, then slamming forward attempting to pull the front wheels.

I'm 100% sure that has never happened. I'm the only driver.

The manufacturer did say that it looks like it was being turned very quickly on hills, or curb hopped. Neither of those are true. Then they said the bagger and weight kit probably contributed-it is their bag and weight kit though...so now they say I have to "baby it"..

puppypaws
09-17-2010, 11:08 AM
I'm 100% sure that has never happened. I'm the only driver.
The manufacturer did say that it looks like it was being turned very quickly on hills, or curb hopped. Neither of those are true. Then they said the bagger and weight kit probably contributed-it is their bag and weight kit though...so now they say I have to "baby it"..

That answers a lot of questions, you are the only operator, this makes it known there has been no jerking around or abuse. A person has a known tendency to take care of anything; when the money comes from his pocket for repairs, (one of the reasons hired help can be destructive).

Now we get to the extra weight of the bagger, this can definitely (which I believe it has), cause this type problem. Think of it like hooking a trailer with weight much to heavy for a truck axle to handle from a dead pull. I've experienced this, and the end result was an axle broken in half.

What appears to be taking place in your situation is their drive motor axles were not designed for the extra weight provided by the bagger. As a matter of fact, I am more than sure this is the problem. The drive axles are on the line of not being strong enough for the mower alone, and when the extra weight of the bagger is added to the equation, it is the straw that broke the Camels back.

I would say you are not the only one experiencing this problem, some LCO's probably blame it on their employees, but from your testimony of being the only operator, that is significant evidence of the problem cause.

piston slapper
09-17-2010, 02:50 PM
Not much wear on the other end of the shaft.
It looks like a bad casting looking for a place to happen, and it did....

I'll bet Exmark has a stack of them

Mark Oomkes
09-17-2010, 03:03 PM
Can you get a picture from top down?

I'm 100% sure that has never happened. I'm the only driver.

The manufacturer did say that it looks like it was being turned very quickly on hills, or curb hopped. Neither of those are true. Then they said the bagger and weight kit probably contributed-it is their bag and weight kit though...so now they say I have to "baby it"..

I have a couple older Lazers with UltraVacs, both have well over 2000 hours and never snapped an axle. Had a 72" with over 2000 that never had a problem with either.

Something isn't right. Take it up the line at Exmark, don't let the dealer blow you off.

puppypaws
09-17-2010, 04:11 PM
Can you get a picture from top down?



I have a couple older Lazers with UltraVacs, both have well over 2000 hours and never snapped an axle. Had a 72" with over 2000 that never had a problem with either.

Something isn't right. Take it up the line at Exmark, don't let the dealer blow you off.

This is more evidence introduced, did the wheel motor manufacturer receive bad metal, did their production procedure change, is the weight of his bagger heavier than yours.

There is a difference somewhere, I would not want to put it off on a bad casting, once very possible, twice very doubtful as caused by poor casting.

Not much wear on the other end of the shaft.
It looks like a bad casting looking for a place to happen, and it did....

I'll bet Exmark has a stack of them

If you look at this shaft, it appears to have broken in a twist. This type break (twisting break) comes from a piece of metal not strong enough to withstand the amount of torque applied. This can also be a part of the breakage puzzle, which is the shaft not being strong enough to handle the weight it is carrying, putting a stress crack in the shaft. Then on the next full torque applied by the wheel motor you have what is seen in this picture, a shaft that is broken from twisting in its weakest point, the stress crack caused by heavy weight bouncing on the shaft at an earlier time.

This is the same as a chain link breaking, it always breaks in its weakest point, the same as this shaft, it broke in its weakest point. To figure out the puzzle, one must find what caused this to be the weakest point. I would say it is the weakest point because of having less metal in the area it broke.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2702/photofl.jpg

StihlMechanic
09-17-2010, 09:59 PM
over torqued wheel hub nut, no shim washer used. But its not like I have seen this before or anything.

laman
09-17-2010, 10:52 PM
Looks like a part that is not up to par. I have some neighbor that there kids actually hot rod their hustler on concrete. They have not have a failure. I think there is a weak part being used on this.

puppypaws
09-18-2010, 09:05 AM
over torqued wheel hub nut, no shim washer used. But its not like I have seen this before or anything.

Kevin, one possibly, two not likely!

Exmark PR
09-21-2010, 09:33 AM
2009 Lazer Z 60" ZTurn, less than 300 hours, light commercial use-this is the second one. Axle from drive motor. No curbs.

What do you think?

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2702/photofl.jpg

Without knowing the serial number of the machine, it is not possible to address this specific incident. We can help you further if you or your dealer contact our service department at 800.667.5296. We’re always willing to discuss the situation to see if there are any alternative solutions to an issue.

Although a defect is always a possibility, with this particular drive link it is extremely rare. It takes over 5000 pounds per square inch to break one of these drive links. The hydraulic system is protected by a bypass valve system that releases pressure at either 3000 psi or 3700 psi (depending upon model) so to incur a ‘shock’ to the drive system in excess of 5000 psi would require some severe kind of stress.

Send along your e-mail or phone number to exmarkpr@exmark.com or give us a call and we'll see what we can do!

XB 2002
09-21-2010, 01:56 PM
Now you got their attention !!!!
Good Luck !

XB 2002

turf&snow98
09-21-2010, 08:18 PM
I have had 2 scags with close to 5,000 hrs each, and my 05-LZ with about 1,000 hrs ALL with baggers and have NEVER seen anything like that, call exmark.