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View Full Version : Briggs and Stratton options for Hustler z engine swap


dschell
09-20-2010, 12:44 PM
I have a Hustler Z that, after a long commercial use life, is now used for residential use only. The Kawasaki engine is locking up when I try to start it - could be a bent push rod - but not sure yet. If I do end up replacing the engine, I'm wondering what my options are. the Kawa can go around $2000. A comparable sized Briggs is less than half that. Is there any Briggs model that would work? How about a Kohler? Or anyone know a supplier of rebuilt engines?

Thanks for suggestions.

Dave

homemower
09-21-2010, 09:52 AM
You don't say how many hrs are on the motor.
But I would rebuild the Kaw. Even with a new crankshaft and rod[s], piston, and valves it wouldn't cost near $2000. They are pretty simple to repair, and cost effective. Also there is the clutch size to match up for proper RPM's. NOTHING BUT MORE HEADACHS, LOL
Making that drastic of a change will be one headache after another and probably so after it's done as every time you need something for it you don't have the right model and serial numbers anymore for that set-up.

mowerconsultant
09-22-2010, 05:00 PM
We have never offered a Briggs engine on a full size commercial ZTR, we did offer it on a FasTrak many years ago and the Sports now, both of which are much smaller residential units.
With that being said, I am sure someone has done a Briggs engine install on our full sized commercial units, I am just not aware of it and what needs to be changed to make it work.

Pj

dschell
09-23-2010, 11:28 AM
I have started tearing into the Kawa engine - not looking good. First discovered a bent push rod. Then noticed pistons are not moving up and down in the cylinder - hear stuff rattling in crankcase - trying to get the crankcase cover removed - will start a new thread on "KAWA 23HP rebuild process."

homemower
09-24-2010, 10:40 AM
the noise you hear in the case is most probaly just Alumimun pieces that are broken up. I would empty out all the parts including end seals and start over with all new parts make sure you ridge ream the cyl. bore and if possible ck. the bore to the new piston size standard clearence is .002 but you can go up to as much as .006 without piston slap @ 3600 rpm after .008 you are in danger of this happening and motor failure so do this after the bore is honed and if you are still in specs. start repairing or have someone do it for you
cost is still going to be less than $2000.
Note: I don't know if the Kaw. can be bored to a larger piston but I would have to belive it can go .010 over you will just have to ck. and find out good luck

dschell
09-27-2010, 11:20 AM
After removing the crankcase cover from my Kawa 23HP, it was total devastation inside. Broken piston rods, broken camshaft, damaged cylinders, damage case, etc, etc.

So I am back to looking for a replacement and still on the path of looking for a better deal than $1700 for a new Kawasaki.

I have found a B&S 44Q777 (27 HP ELS XRD Intek) for $499 - an incredible deal in my opinion.

Here are some comparison points between the two.

1) Shaft on Kawa is 1 1/8 x 3 15/16 - BS shaft is 1 1/8 x 4 5/16 - I figure I can add a spacer on the shaft to make up the 3/8" difference. Both have a 1/4" keyway.

2) Engine bolt pattern is different but that is a simple matter of drilling new holes in the Hustler deck.

3) Muffler - will have to find a new muffler - will look for mowers that currently use this engine as a supplier

4) Oil drain - will be pointing in towards the machine instead of out - but I can access through openings in the deck

5) Alternator on Kawa is 13 amps - on BS it is 16 amps - not sure this will matter?

6) Overall size/dimensions are nearly identifical - don't expect a problem there.

Any other considerations I should be looking at?

Thanks, Dave

mowerconsultant
09-27-2010, 05:17 PM
That is a lot of work to make the Briggs work....

mcdc6
09-27-2010, 10:02 PM
I just installed that exact motor on my 72" Super Z. Bolted right up no problems. You can use the kawasaki manifold but have to cut the flanges, rotate and weld. Extend the distance between the two ports. But completely solved my problems. 70 hours on it now and blows away the kawasaki on power. Any questions i'll answer

homemower
09-28-2010, 09:57 AM
Well it sounds like you still have a good block, the crankshaft may not be damaged. Why don't you take it to a small eng. repair guy in your neighborhood and get a price before you commit to the Briggs?
I would bet you will be surprised at just it might cost you and besides
"nothing ventured nothing gained"

dschell
09-30-2010, 02:47 PM
I just installed that exact motor on my 72" Super Z. Bolted right up no problems. You can use the kawasaki manifold but have to cut the flanges, rotate and weld. Extend the distance between the two ports. But completely solved my problems. 70 hours on it now and blows away the kawasaki on power. Any questions i'll answer

MCDC6 - thanks for the offer of help. The auction closed yesterday and I was able to get that engine for $499 - just an incredible deal in my opinion and well worth the small amount of retrofit that is necessary.

Some questions:

1. Did you need to drill new mounting holes in the deck to bolt the engine to it?
2. Will I be able to access the oil drain with the access port inboard now?
3. Do you do anything to account for the extra 3/8" length in the BS shaft (Kawa is 3 15/16" - BS is 4 5/16)?
4. Did you go with stock air filter on BS or connect it to the Donaldson on the Hustler?
5. Does BS have separate throttle and choke that connected easily or is the BS a choke-a-matic that only required one cable?
6. BS has no electric carb shutoff valve so that wire from the Hustler harness does not have to connect, right?
7. BS has no oil pressure sensor, so again no need for that wire from the Hustler harness either, right?
8. I knew I would have to modify exhaust manifold but wasn't sure how much until the engine actually arrives. From your experience, it sounds like a simple cut and weld job though.

dschell
09-30-2010, 02:51 PM
Well it sounds like you still have a good block, the crankshaft may not be damaged. Why don't you take it to a small eng. repair guy in your neighborhood and get a price before you commit to the Briggs?
I would bet you will be surprised at just it might cost you and besides
"nothing ventured nothing gained"

Homeowner, no - the piston cylinder walls that extend into the block are damaged and so are a few other areas of the inside of the block - like I said, it was total devastation inside there - not a single re-usable part that I could see, except for the two head assemblies and two pistons. Even the crankshaft had busted gears on it. I do have alot of external parts available (starter, carb, tins, heads, magnetos, flywheel, fans, screens, etc) if anyone is interested.

mcdc6
09-30-2010, 11:59 PM
I did not have to drill holes for the B&S Motor. Bolted right up. Actually paid not attention to the drain plug because I suck out the oil. But the oil filter location is the same so I would assume the drain plug is in the same place. Plenty of space for the extra length of the shaft. No clearance issues whatsoever. Stock filter is what i am using. Just used the single throttle cable, just have to remember wide open is now only have way up, you feel the notch. My motor did have a electric fuel shut off and i believe yours will too. Just taped up and zipped tied the oil sensor wire, no issues. For the manifold, used the kawi one. Look at it carefully, rotated one flange and hade to extend with 1" pipe about 1 1/4". Hope that helps
Mike

dschell
10-02-2010, 12:46 AM
Mike, that is all great information - thank you for providing. Sounds like the only issue is really the exhaust manifold. I have a stick welder and a bit of skill so should not be too big of a problem. What was your source for the extra 1" pipe?
Is it anything special other than just regular steel pipe? Did you just butt weld in the extra piece?

Thanks again for the help. The engine shipped yesterday so this time next week I should just about be back in business. We'll see.

dschell
10-08-2010, 10:35 AM
Then B&S engine has arrived and looks like it will be a fairly easy swap out. The exhaust manifold did require some modification, including cutting off both flanges and twisting them a bit as well as about a 1" extension between the two flanges.

Wiring looks very similiar - everything matches up perfectly except that the oil pressure wire is not used.

One question - on the bottom of the intake manifold on the right side is a hose barb, covered with a red cap. I have no idea what should connect to this barb. It looks about the size of fuel hose, but clearly the main fuel hose connects to the fuel filter on the side of the engine.

I'm attaching a photo. Anyone have any ideas what that port is used for? Thanks, Dave

mowerconsultant
10-08-2010, 04:11 PM
The port your looking at is likely the intake for the new EPA regulations kicking in 1.1.11
Units made after that date have to have fuel tank vents / overflows that flow back to the intake / carburetion.

Pj

dschell
10-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Ah - so like the evaporative canister system in a car - that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for solving that mystery.

So to close out this thread, I completed the engine swap this weekend, and it was a success.

Looking back, it was a fairly easy swap. Most significant modification required was the exhaust manifold, which required some cutting and welding. Also had to make a new muffler mount bracket and drill a new hole or two in the deck for engine mounting. Every thing else, such as wiring, choke/throttle, and fuel line was very straight forward.