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View Full Version : Who cuts right threw leafs? Or you switch to bagging?


youryardbarbourllc
09-30-2010, 10:45 AM
I have been mowing and cleaning leafs for 4 years now. I was part time, this year i went to pull time and i notice some LCO's by me showing up to the properties and blowing leafs before they start cutting? I normally just cut threw the leafs till the grass stops growing and then i take care of my fall clean up.

Do any of you guys blow leafs every week when you show up? You add that time into your fall clean up price? I normally dont find out till sept. billing if i am doing a fall clean up for them or not. Thanks for the help!

93Chevy
09-30-2010, 11:03 AM
Depends on the customer. If somebody just wants the majority collected every week, then I usually go over the lawn twice with the catcher system. If they want a full cleanup every week, then that's what they get. It's their call.

Ole grass cutter
09-30-2010, 11:16 AM
Don't own a bagger and haven't bagged in over 20 years now. Most commercial ztr's (iuse Toros) will mulch up leaves great if you back over them then pull forward it may take two times but a whole lot faster then bagging. Not sure about y'alls grass but down in FL it has worked great for many years. Some times you might have to rake a few up but very seldom.

Roger
09-30-2010, 03:39 PM
Leaves on our properties have begun to fall, too many to ignore, but not enough to do full-scale leaf cleanup.

On many properties the past week, I've been using my ZTR, or w/b, whichever I am using, to bring them together in an area. I don't make a tight windrow, or tight circle, but enough to produce a good cover. Then I use my hand mower (Toro Proline, with Gator blade, or Honda HRX217) to mulch them down. Sometimes I need two passes. Then I make another pass across with the ZTR, or w/b to scatter the chips.

This will not work as the season progresses and the cover gets too heavy. Then I will use a variety of methods, such as mulching with chute blocker, then recut, or blow off with 8hp wheeled blower. In other cases, they need to be gathered together with the 8hp wheeled blower, tarped up, and put in the trailer for haul away. So many factors are considered -- weather, dampness, kind of leaves, quality of turf, requirements of the customer, how many beds need to be cleaned out (size/cover/kind), .... long list. What I do today may be different than I do next week, or the week after that. I have no fixed way for most properties.

I never use a bagger on the ZTR or w/b for leaves. I will use a bagger on the hand mowers to pick up remnants, but not wholesale, raw leaves. That is much too slow.

punt66
09-30-2010, 03:41 PM
Don't own a bagger and haven't bagged in over 20 years now. Most commercial ztr's (iuse Toros) will mulch up leaves great if you back over them then pull forward it may take two times but a whole lot faster then bagging. Not sure about y'alls grass but down in FL it has worked great for many years. Some times you might have to rake a few up but very seldom.

well, yea, your in FL! Try that up here.

AOD
09-30-2010, 06:37 PM
Around MI and other cold places, mulching works great on early leaves. As the temp drops, the mulched leaves decompose slower than they fall and can be mulched, so removing them becomes necessary. Blowing them with the discharge chute on the Z master works good, or mulching them a few times and then bagging them up. Power flow baggers work great but if you don't mulch them first they fill up way too fast. I have also used turf sweepers, but those only do a good job on unmulched leaves, as the fingers need greater surface area to puck them up.

youryardbarbourllc
09-30-2010, 07:00 PM
So you guys do all this extra work and dont get anything out of it? This is where i am confused. Your customers ask you to do this and you charge accordingly or you just do it for your regular mowing price?

Ole grass cutter
09-30-2010, 07:43 PM
well, yea, your in FL! Try that up here.

I'm not up there I would do it if I was. :)

doublesharp
09-30-2010, 07:44 PM
Unless we get rain I'm pretty much done mowing. I'll cut one more time in late Oct and then I'll wait til most all the leaves drop, usually early Dec and mulch em real good. I charge double for that last cut but my properties have a lot of leaves. I blow the leaves from their patios and sidewalks to the yard and then mulch em to dust.

punt66
09-30-2010, 07:45 PM
What's the difference? We have tons of oaks, maples, sycamores and so on magnolias are horrible and are harder to mulch. What I said will make a huge pile of maple leaves go away if you do it right.

yea ok. come mulch up here, i would love to see it.

nepatsfan
09-30-2010, 07:57 PM
yea ok. come mulch up here, i would love to see it.

impossible. no way you could do that.

punt66
09-30-2010, 07:58 PM
impossible. no way you could do that.

haha he said he can.

ALC-GregH
09-30-2010, 08:23 PM
I'm not up there I would do it if I was. :)

You might THINK you will. :) Maybe with one little tree in the yard but try 70 trees!

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/americanlawncare/CIMG0091-1.jpg?t=1285892486
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/americanlawncare/CIMG0093-1.jpg

gobblet
09-30-2010, 08:28 PM
This is my approach. I take an average time all year for me to cut a customers lawn. When the leaves are there and mulching just will not leave the lawn looking how i think it should look. I take the extra time it has taken me to bag the leaves off of lawn and charge the customer. If you need to blow first then mark the time it has taken you to blow before mowing and then charge hourly rate ontop of mowing rate. Good question, I was thinking same thing as most of my lawns have curbside pick-up but not for atleast another month. Getting heavy here in Da Burgh!

ALC-GregH
09-30-2010, 08:32 PM
To answer the OP's ? I dice them up until they start to blow piles of chopped up leaves that won't disappear then I start bagging. The customer is aware that the leaves need to be cleaned up otherwise they will kill the grass. You just can't chop up the amount of leaves in the pics. If you did, the lawn would look brown and you'd lose half the lawn. Others I do that only have one or two trees will get mulched up.

knox gsl
09-30-2010, 08:37 PM
There is no way you can just mulch leaves on a northern lawn that has many mature trees on it, just not happening. I do have a few yards that only have a few trees and those just get mowed as normal till all the neighbors yards are cleaned then I'll come in and do a final cleanup.

JayD
09-30-2010, 09:25 PM
unless we get rain i'm pretty much done mowing. I'll cut one more time in late oct and then i'll wait til most all the leaves drop, usually early dec and mulch em real good. I charge double for that last cut but my properties have a lot of leaves. I blow the leaves from their patios and sidewalks to the yard and then mulch em to dust.

i know what your talking about when you bring up rain!

StihlBR600
09-30-2010, 09:30 PM
Get some gator blades and youll only have to run them over once. They work really well in early fall when the leaves start to fall. But for fall cleanups i put the high lift blades on to blow them where i want and also for bagging with the accelerator.

ed2hess
09-30-2010, 09:30 PM
well, yea, your in FL! Try that up here.

Works in Texas and it works up north. I have read several threads over the years by guys up north that do the same. Leaves are leaves and these big units will make them disappear. And if they are a little damp that is better. Oh by way we got a Walker bagger, a Sentar bagger, and A Scag bagger and they are only used to pick up the little bitty pieces.

JayD
09-30-2010, 09:58 PM
Get some gator blades and youll only have to run them over once. They work really well in early fall when the leaves start to fall. But for fall cleanups i put the high lift blades on to blow them where i want and also for bagging with the accelerator.

How do you like that accelerator? was thinking of getting one if I can scrape up the money...

punt66
09-30-2010, 10:12 PM
Works in Texas and it works up north. I have read several threads over the years by guys up north that do the same. Leaves are leaves and these big units will make them disappear. And if they are a little damp that is better. Oh by way we got a Walker bagger, a Sentar bagger, and A Scag bagger and they are only used to pick up the little bitty pieces.

yea ok, I have the big units with baggers.

kilgoja
09-30-2010, 10:51 PM
i always mulch but i don't have any yards i cut with 70 trees in them lol

Southern Pride
10-01-2010, 03:05 AM
Yeah, this time of year there is a good accumulation of leaves in the beds and especially along the curb. In producing the best quality, I blow ALL leaves from the curb into the yard, around trees to get them away from the base, out of beds into the lawn. The key is getting all the leaves off of concrete and beds and into open areas in the lawn so that when you cut, they all get mulched or bagged so when you get done and go to blow, you don't end up blowing leaves in the curb back into the lawn so that you have a 80% leaf free lawn and then there are some blown in the yard that you missed on the curb. Little things like this make all the difference in the world and seperates me from most other LCO's. I don't really charge any extra for this small service I just consider it a good business gesture so the customer is more than happy and thus secures my spot as their yard fellow.

Now, in the late fall months when it gets heavy, I consider it an actual clean up. Instead of doing one huge cleanup I like to continue my cuts and get the leaves weekly or bi weekly. It comes out to the same as one huge cleanup, keeps me consistantly paid, easier, and keeps their yard relatively leaf free all the way to the holidays. My best customers go for it. Some don't. The ones that don't get that nice fat $ bill on 1 big cleanup.

In this part of the year the extra blowing takes the place of trimming and edging as the grass just isn't growing so it is still the normal rate and actually it takes a bit less than a normal cut...I am in the south (Memphis) so the texture of the leaves down here I can mulch and you cannot see any of it left over and never tell there were leaves there in the first place. If you're up North, then..That sucks. Don't know bout' all that.

Also, it is "through" not threw, lol Sorry eventually have to correct someone.

Richard Martin
10-01-2010, 03:38 AM
To answer the OP's ? I dice them up until they start to blow piles of chopped up leaves that won't disappear then I start bagging. The customer is aware that the leaves need to be cleaned up otherwise they will kill the grass. You just can't chop up the amount of leaves in the pics. If you did, the lawn would look brown and you'd lose half the lawn. Others I do that only have one or two trees will get mulched up.

That's the way I would do the amount of leaves you have pictured. Once the leaves get to be so many that they can't be just mulched down then I start charging hourly.

Martinson9
10-01-2010, 08:00 PM
Try a mulch kit on your mower. If you don't want to make the investment in an actual mulch kit you can just get a plate to go over the discharge. You'll be very surprised how well your mower will mulch leaves We mulch leaves for the month of October and do our final leaf pickup in November.

Customers have been unhappy if we mow in October and just side discharge the leaves. If you mow with a mulch kit it looks almost as good as if you bagged it with a lot less work. It turns out great for us because we get extra mowing in October and we have a lot less leaves to pick up during our final cleanup. When I was part time at first I would not mow in October and just do a final cleanup. Our revenue has gone up a lot by adding at least 2 additional mowings with the mulch kits.

You can mulch up north where the leaves are heavy. You just have to stay on top of it. The leaves in our city are as bad as anywhere. You will need to bag most lawns eventually though.

Southern Pride
10-01-2010, 09:16 PM
Yeah, I have a mulching system that works great for me now but in a couple years a walker or navigator type mower will be a must. If your company really sells quality, you gotta have one of these. As well as mulching works in so many cases, the walker/navigator really do top notch work.

sdk1959
10-05-2010, 08:18 PM
Unless we get rain I'm pretty much done mowing. I'll cut one more time in late Oct and then I'll wait til most all the leaves drop, usually early Dec and mulch em real good. I charge double for that last cut but my properties have a lot of leaves. I blow the leaves from their patios and sidewalks to the yard and then mulch em to dust.

In southeastern PA I do the same thing but with customer properties with a lot of mature trees and if their neighbors have big trees I make 4-6 visits. Usually 2-3 visits in October and 3-4 visits in November. When the leaves are dry they practically mulch to dust, but even moist they mulch down to 1/4"-1/2". Any visible mulched leaves do decompose so by May they are gone. Mulched leaves are a excellent amendment to the soil too and NO it will not make the soil acidic, a University study debunked that myth years ago.

Pick-up and removal is out of the question for me on a big property with many big trees. All the equipment, hauling & manpower you need to get the job done in late November with little daylight is just nuts.:dizzy: Costs the customer so much money, and their lawn looks like crap till late November. The grass does not go dormant here till late October, sometimes into November if its a warm fall so if there are any thick piles of leaves the grass gets smothered.:hammerhead:

If a customer thinks of leaves as plastic litter that doesn't decompose and only removal will do I say see ya......

heather lawn sp
10-06-2010, 03:57 AM
Don't own a bagger and haven't bagged in over 20 years now. Most commercial ztr's (iuse Toros) will mulch up leaves great if you back over them then pull forward it may take two times but a whole lot faster then bagging. Not sure about y'alls grass but down in FL it has worked great for many years. Some times you might have to rake a few up but very seldom.

It works up here too, 20 years too

heather lawn sp
10-06-2010, 04:00 AM
yea ok. come mulch up here, i would love to see it.

yea ok come up here and I'll show ya:canadaflag:

heather lawn sp
10-06-2010, 04:10 AM
Yeah, this time of year there is a good accumulation of leaves in the beds and especially along the curb. In producing the best quality, I blow ALL leaves from the curb into the yard, around trees to get them away from the base, out of beds into the lawn. The key is getting all the leaves off of concrete and beds and into open areas in the lawn so that when you cut, they all get mulched or bagged so when you get done and go to blow, you don't end up blowing leaves in the curb back into the lawn so that you have a 80% leaf free lawn and then there are some blown in the yard that you missed on the curb. Little things like this make all the difference in the world and seperates me from most other LCO's. I don't really charge any extra for this small service I just consider it a good business gesture so the customer is more than happy and thus secures my spot as their yard fellow.

Now, in the late fall months when it gets heavy, I consider it an actual clean up. Instead of doing one huge cleanup I like to continue my cuts and get the leaves weekly or bi weekly. It comes out to the same as one huge cleanup, keeps me consistantly paid, easier, and keeps their yard relatively leaf free all the way to the holidays. My best customers go for it. Some don't. The ones that don't get that nice fat $ bill on 1 big cleanup.

In this part of the year the extra blowing takes the place of trimming and edging as the grass just isn't growing so it is still the normal rate and actually it takes a bit less than a normal cut...I am in the south (Memphis) so the texture of the leaves down here I can mulch and you cannot see any of it left over and never tell there were leaves there in the first place. If you're up North, then..That sucks. Don't know bout' all that.

Also, it is "through" not threw, lol Sorry eventually have to correct someone.

Have you been reading my play book?:laugh:

Charles
10-06-2010, 07:25 AM
You can't mulch the lawns I have either(SC). You just get piles of mulch. Faster just to vacuum them up. I start off mulching and then they get too heavy for that. My bagger will vacuum the mulch and the leaves.
I do have some customers that have no way to dispose of the leaves. I just mulch them and spread it around as best I can. Better to do it when there hasn't been any rain for a long time.
Either way I hate the leaf business. Hard, dusty work that people don't want to pay what it is worth. All that dust clogs up your filters quickly.

W.L.M.
10-06-2010, 11:26 AM
yea ok. come mulch up here, i would love to see it.

Southerners dont understand man. There is no way you can mulch a heavily treed lot and have it look good. I too would like to see somebody try though, haha.

anders.ogren
10-06-2010, 07:45 PM
Hello...Sorry I dont post often, I just read. One word of advice to any foolish people like me, don't let the leaves get on top of your mowing deck (if u have a wb) It WILL start a fire when they touch the engine.

Big Bad Bob
10-06-2010, 09:00 PM
You can't mulch the lawns I have either(SC). You just get piles of mulch. Faster just to vacuum them up. I start off mulching and then they get too heavy for that. My bagger will vacuum the mulch and the leaves.
I do have some customers that have no way to dispose of the leaves. I just mulch them and spread it around as best I can. Better to do it when there hasn't been any rain for a long time.
Either way I hate the leaf business. Hard, dusty work that people don't want to pay what it is worth. All that dust clogs up your filters quickly.

Well said.
I will mulch as the leaves begin to fall but eventually, as you said, the leaves begin to windrow. They also tend to saturate the lawn. When you leave them on the lawn after they are heavy, with all the hard maple, ash and sycamore, you get an orange lawn from the leaf powder on top of the grass. Not popular up here. Then comes spring when the oak leaves fall. They mostly need to be bagged too.
I have had customers marvel at how clean we can get the lawns by mulching early in the season though. We do eventually have to do a final bagging cleanup.

MileHigh
10-06-2010, 09:50 PM
The ones who say..."you can just mulch all the leaves"..are so wrong it's disgusting and it's quite bothering to read these idiots posting that on all the leaf threads.

Big Bad Bob
10-06-2010, 10:11 PM
The ones who say..."you can just mulch all the leaves"..are so wrong it's disgusting and it's quite bothering to read these idiots posting that on all the leaf threads.

Your leaves must be different than ours. Either that or your customers don't give a damn how their lawn looks. 12 inches of leaves mulch down, at best, to 3 inches of mulched leaves. That saturates the lawn to the point you can't hide it in the grass stand.
Oops. Sorry. Misread your post. :o

Richard Martin
10-07-2010, 01:43 AM
The ones who say..."you can just mulch all the leaves"..are so wrong it's disgusting and it's quite bothering to read these idiots posting that on all the leaf threads.

They're not idiots, they're just making the same mistake that you are. They're presuming that leaf cleanup is the same everywhere. It's not. It's different from one lawn to the next. They may be able to mulch all of the leaves where they are. Where-as where you are it's just not possible so you take the attitude that they're idiots.

And why does it bother you? They're just words from people that have no idea what it's like to cut grass or cleanup up leaves where you are.

sdk1959
10-10-2010, 10:55 PM
Your leaves must be different than ours. Either that or your customers don't give a damn how their lawn looks. 12 inches of leaves mulch down, at best, to 3 inches of mulched leaves. That saturates the lawn to the point you can't hide it in the grass stand.
Oops. Sorry. Misread your post. :o
Seems like almost everyone believes the leaves must be mulched all at once at the end of the season (late November in the Northeast). If a property has a lot of tall mature trees the leaves CAN be mulched effectively if done during the season in 4-6 visits-not waiting till late November and trying to mulch them all at once. Of course if all the leaves are mulched at once there will be a unsightly thick layer of mulched leaves that may not decompose entirely because of the thickness of the layer.

When the leaves are mulched during the season in several visits the mulched leaf layer is very thin and will decompose some and work it's way to the base of the grass roots between visits. More so if it rains between visits. By May the mulched leaves virtually are gone from decomposing and working their way down to the roots.

THEGOLDPRO
10-10-2010, 11:11 PM
i always laugh at people who dont understand fall time in new england.

Big Bad Bob
10-11-2010, 01:26 AM
Seems like almost everyone believes the leaves must be mulched all at once at the end of the season (late November in the Northeast). If a property has a lot of tall mature trees the leaves CAN be mulched effectively if done during the season in 4-6 visits-not waiting till late November and trying to mulch them all at once. Of course if all the leaves are mulched at once there will be a unsightly thick layer of mulched leaves that may not decompose entirely because of the thickness of the layer.

When the leaves are mulched during the season in several visits the mulched leaf layer is very thin and will decompose some and work it's way to the base of the grass roots between visits. More so if it rains between visits. By May the mulched leaves virtually are gone from decomposing and working their way down to the roots.

Not always true. First there are the customers who insist we stop mowing as soon as the grass stops growing. They don't see the advantage of gradual leaf control. Secondly, even on those lawns we do gradual leaf control, we end up with one cold frosty night and the 80% of the leaves that didn't gradually drop, now drop all at once. I mean overnight. And if that cold frosty night is accompanied with rain or worse, snow that melts the next day, (which is the norm) the leaves will not mulch down and must be removed. That's in the upper midwest. Conditions may vary in your area.
And then there is the situation where the neighbors don't practice gradual leaf control and we end up cleaning their leaves from our customers property after the many late fall windstorms.

sdk1959
10-11-2010, 06:23 AM
Not always true. First there are the customers who insist we stop mowing as soon as the grass stops growing. They don't see the advantage of gradual leaf control. Secondly, even on those lawns we do gradual leaf control, we end up with one cold frosty night and the 80% of the leaves that didn't gradually drop, now drop all at once. I mean overnight. And if that cold frosty night is accompanied with rain or worse, snow that melts the next day, (which is the norm) the leaves will not mulch down and must be removed. That's in the upper midwest. Conditions may vary in your area.
And then there is the situation where the neighbors don't practice gradual leaf control and we end up cleaning their leaves from our customers property after the many late fall windstorms.

True, a lot of customers just don't get it with gradual leaf control, and sometimes if there is a cold frosty night the majority of leaves will drop in a day or two. But usually it is not on all the different tree species on a customers property, so some parts of the lawn are saturated with leaves others are not. Black walnut trees in the northeast always seem to start losing their leaves in September and are done dropping leaves long before other types of trees for are for example.

If the situation is where most of the leaves have fallen all in one week the way I handle it depends on the property:

If the customer has a place on-site where I can dump the leaves I will collect them for a extra cost. If not I will mulch the leaves 2,3 times and scatter the thicker mulch layers with a backpack blower, also for extra cost. Customers don't mind the extra cost because it saves the cost on future visits. The customers I have do not care if mulched leaves are visible as long as there are not thick layers on the lawn and they are gone come May.

2brothersyardcare
10-11-2010, 12:27 PM
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp30/bakerc8/DSCN0269.jpg i mulch too lol

Martinson9
10-11-2010, 01:10 PM
i always laugh at people who dont understand fall time in new england.

I work and mow in Minnesota. I lived in Connecticut for 5 years. For the most part the properties in CT compare closely to the lawns we take care of. Mature properties with lots of big oaks and maples. In other words, tons of leaves.

I didn't do lawn care in CT, but I would be interested to learn why it is impossible to mulch leaves there. We have been mowing/mulch for 3 weeks now and we are getting rid of the leaves as fast as they come down.

We do finally have to put on the baggers around November 1 when the leaves do the mass dumping. However, by then we've mulched a LOT of leaves making fall cleanup much easier.

The only time we can't mulch is if a property owner doesn't have us mow. We try have as many people sign up for a monthly agreement so they don't care if we mow or not. This year we just might mow/mulch for free because it reduces our cleanup time so much.

What factors make a New England cleanup harder other than quantity of leaves? Because where I live in Minnesota we have plenty of that.

93Chevy
10-11-2010, 03:58 PM
I
We do finally have to put on the baggers around November 1 when the leaves do the mass dumping. However, by then we've mulched a LOT of leaves making fall cleanup much easier.


So you admit that it is impossible to leave a clean look with strictly a mulch kit when the leaves fall at a rate much heavier than that of early October.

I can see how mulching would work for a while, or have a mulcher mower and a bagger, but sooner or later, the collection system will need to be used, especially if you want a clean look.

Martinson9
10-11-2010, 05:05 PM
So you admit that it is impossible to leave a clean look with strictly a mulch kit when the leaves fall at a rate much heavier than that of early October.

I can see how mulching would work for a while, or have a mulcher mower and a bagger, but sooner or later, the collection system will need to be used, especially if you want a clean look.

It's only impossible on a few of the "worst/heaviest" properties. Most properties look just great with mulching if you stay on top of it.

You can see how mulching would work.....so you don't actually have any experience mulching?

We have to pay $8 per cubic yard to get rid of our yard waste so not only does mulching leave us with much less work, but it's good for the soil and saves us a ton of money.

Big Bad Bob
10-11-2010, 05:38 PM
It's only impossible on a few of the "worst/heaviest" properties. Most properties look just great with mulching if you stay on top of it.

You can see how mulching would work.....so you don't actually have any experience mulching?

We have to pay $8 per cubic yard to get rid of our yard waste so not only does mulching leave us with much less work, but it's good for the soil and saves us a ton of money.

Did he say he had no experience mulching? I think what he said was that mulching would work for a while but, at least where he is and where I am, after the big leaf drop, bagging is a necessity. And yes, practicing early leaf management can and will reduce the amount of debris that HAS to later be removed from the property considerably.

93Chevy
10-11-2010, 05:47 PM
It's only impossible on a few of the "worst/heaviest" properties. Most properties look just great with mulching if you stay on top of it.

I know. You stated that originally, I agreed, and you stated it again, with the direction that I hadn't agreed with you.


You can see how mulching would work.....so you don't actually have any experience mulching?


In my experience, it works if you stay on top of it during most of October. However, as we have both stated, in agreement, that bagging is necessary at a certain point.


We have to pay $8 per cubic yard to get rid of our yard waste so not only does mulching leave us with much less work, but it's good for the soil and saves us a ton of money.

Sorry to hear that. I have a local farm I can dump at for free, so I bag almost everything. I don't have a mulch kit for my mower, so I bag all the time.

Martinson9
10-11-2010, 07:31 PM
Did he say he had no experience mulching?

His next post says he doesn't own a mulch kit.

THEGOLDPRO
10-11-2010, 07:33 PM
we dont waste time trying to mulch the leaves up, it ALWAYS looks like piss when its done, and kicks the piss out of the mowers.

sdk1959
10-11-2010, 09:57 PM
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp30/bakerc8/DSCN0269.jpg i mulch too lol

Those leaf piles really aren't that big, I would not have blown them in big piles like that anyway before mulching. I would blow out the beds, leave the leaves on the lawn lay where they are, then mulch them. If the leaves are dry they mulch down to almost powder. If damp they mulch down to about 1/4"-1/2". If a mulch layer is too thick I scatter it with the backpack blower or if they have low laying shrubs blow the excess under them.

I have a property that I mulch every fall season with 4-5 visits that has almost 2 dozen mature trees well over 100' tall PLUS the neighbors on either side have about the same PLUS her house backs up to the woods. I will try to take before/after pictures of it throughout the season after each mulching visit, and post them here.

How many MB's is this picture? It seems more than the 3.91MB limit.

soloscaperman
10-11-2010, 10:06 PM
Well in my area in CT you have a few weeks to mulch the leaves before it comes to time consuming and also looks like S***. If you have a bagger the mulch kit is pointless up here. I should be using my little bagger this week. Last week I double cut the lawns and I just cant stand the shredded bits of leaves on the nice lush dark green grass.

sdk1959
10-11-2010, 10:51 PM
Well in my area in CT you have a few weeks to mulch the leaves before it comes to time consuming and also looks like S***. If you have a bagger the mulch kit is pointless up here. I should be using my little bagger this week. Last week I double cut the lawns and I just cant stand the shredded bits of leaves on the nice lush dark green grass.

Unless the mulch layer is several inches thick those mulched leaves are gone by the following May.

I don't know what the going rates are for leaf collection and removal in CT but in Northeast PA it's not uncommon to get estimates up to $1000 for a heavily wooded 1 acre lot. If you look at what it takes to collect and remove the leaves the price is well justified.
Three or four man crews working 6-8 hours including windshield time and time at the dump, dump truck, leaf loader, leaf plow, tarps, 2-3 backpack blowers, dump fees. A ton of work and effort.:dizzy:

soloscaperman
10-11-2010, 11:10 PM
Most my customers want there lawn looking spotless perfect. I deal mostly in a high class neighbor hoods and they expect there lawn in October to look like summer.

sdk1959
10-11-2010, 11:20 PM
Most my customers want there lawn looking spotless perfect. I deal mostly in a high class neighbor hoods and they expect there lawn in October to look like summer.

That's all fine but what if their neighbors don't take care of their leaves? What then? :wall

What do you charge for say a heavily wooded 1 acre lot for a 1 visit end of season leaf collection and removal, 6 beds to blow out, front porch and rear patio to blow off?

THEGOLDPRO
10-11-2010, 11:29 PM
i lose the leaves on 98% of my properties, most all of the houses i do are wooded, so we just blow them all in the woods, its very rare to get a yard that need to be sucked and trucked.

Richard Martin
10-12-2010, 12:48 AM
How many MB's is this picture? It seems more than the 3.91MB limit.

Pic size is 222,674. You can right click on an image and then click Properties to see an image's size and do other things.

sdk1959
10-12-2010, 05:53 AM
Pic size is 222,674. You can right click on an image and then click Properties to see an image's size and do other things.

Thanks. The picture must be compressed somehow. I tried uploading pictures recently and got the error message they were too large.

Richard Martin
10-12-2010, 06:09 AM
Thanks. The picture must be compressed somehow. I tried uploading pictures recently and got the error message they were too large.

Yeah, if you right click and look at Properties you can see that he didn't upload it to Lawnsite. It's on Photobucket. You upload the images to Photobucket and then Mouse Over the image. It will show you the code to make images appear on forums like Lawnsite. You simply copy and paste the code into your message here at Lawnsite.

The pics don't get compressed because it doesn't really do any good. Compression of images is usually under 1%. They can be resized or the resolution reduced to reduce the data size.

THEGOLDPRO
10-12-2010, 09:18 AM
you can put any size pic you want on here, just cant upload the big ones to the forum.

Richard Martin
10-12-2010, 11:11 AM
you can put any size pic you want on here, just cant upload the big ones to the forum.

Last edited by Michael J. Donovan; Today at 09:30 AM. Reason: pic too large


Apparently not...

Big Bad Bob
10-12-2010, 11:53 AM
Unless the mulch layer is several inches thick those mulched leaves are gone by the following May.

I don't know what the going rates are for leaf collection and removal in CT but in Northeast PA it's not uncommon to get estimates up to $1000 for a heavily wooded 1 acre lot. If you look at what it takes to collect and remove the leaves the price is well justified.
Three or four man crews working 6-8 hours including windshield time and time at the dump, dump truck, leaf loader, leaf plow, tarps, 2-3 backpack blowers, dump fees. A ton of work and effort.:dizzy:

My customers want the debris gone NOW and are willing to pay for it. Instant gratification. Just like sod. They don't want it to look like crap for a few months.

Big Bad Bob
10-12-2010, 11:54 AM
Most my customers want there lawn looking spotless perfect. I deal mostly in a high class neighbor hoods and they expect there lawn in October to look like summer.

I guess I should have read this next post before replying my own. I totally agree.

Big Bad Bob
10-12-2010, 11:56 AM
Thanks. The picture must be compressed somehow. I tried uploading pictures recently and got the error message they were too large.

You are probably loading as a .bmp . Try saving as a .jpeg. Reduces the size dramatically.

THEGOLDPRO
10-12-2010, 12:02 PM
Apparently not...

lol i didnt say they would allow it, just that you can in theory put as big a pic as you want

sdk1959
10-12-2010, 07:49 PM
My customers want the debris gone NOW and are willing to pay for it. Instant gratification. Just like sod. They don't want it to look like crap for a few months.

I was referring to the customer with a heavily wooded lot that waits until late November when ALL the leaves have fallen and wants a end of season fall clean-up WITH removal. Those customers don't get it that their yard looks like crap for all of fall, plus the dry leaves against their house are a known fire hazard.

If a customer wants leaf management during the season and has a place on-site for me to dump the collected leaves that's fine. End of season leaf collection AND removal, no way, other LCO's can have those jobs.:dizzy:

Big Bad Bob
10-12-2010, 09:51 PM
I was referring to the customer with a heavily wooded lot that waits until late November when ALL the leaves have fallen and wants a end of season fall clean-up WITH removal. Those customers don't get it that their yard looks like crap for all of fall, plus the dry leaves against their house are a known fire hazard.

If a customer wants leaf management during the season and has a place on-site for me to dump the collected leaves that's fine. End of season leaf collection AND removal, no way, other LCO's can have those jobs.:dizzy:

And I'll take them. Very profitable.
As far as dry leaves, well that doesn't happen very often. Fall, around here, is typically very wet.

sdk1959
10-12-2010, 09:59 PM
And I'll take them. Very profitable.
As far as dry leaves, well that doesn't happen very often. Fall, around here, is typically very wet.

If you were in my area I refer ALL of them to you. Turned down someone 2 weeks ago who called with a 5 acre lot for a end of season fall clean-up. Wanted me to wait till late November to do it. Yeah, ok buddy, sure thing.:laugh:

Big Bad Bob
10-12-2010, 10:44 PM
If you were in my area I refer ALL of them to you. Turned down someone 2 weeks ago who called with a 5 acre lot for a end of season fall clean-up. Wanted me to wait till late November to do it. Yeah, ok buddy, sure thing.:laugh:

Well, if they want me to do it, I will, for the right price. One thing we have to agree on is that some people who want to wait that long are notoriously cheap. payup
I do prefer the ones who let me manage the leaves till the big drop. But most only want leaf management once a week just like mowing so a lot of leaves can accumulate in 7 days. They do want the final to be spotless (if that's even possible). I have gone back and mulched after the major cleanup if the snow is late. Of course the leaf pile is much smaller then because all the leaves are off the trees, as long as the neighbors have cleaned up their mess. I have gotten calls just before Christmas, when there's no snow, (rare) to do a complete 2nd leaf removal because the wind brought the neighbors leaves into my customers yard.
You've got to remember that there are people in my area who will do a complete leaf removal, and do a good job for way less than we do. I know of one guy who spent 4 hours with 3 people and 3 pickup loads, on one of my customers neighbors yard for $150.00 including disposal. They did a good job too. Of course they went out of the business the next year but that's what we are up against. The neighbor tried to talk my customer into hiring them so they could get a $20.00 finders fee from the other lco. My customer, being a businessman himself said he knew they couldn't stay in business at those prices and that we would be around for a long time and know what we are doing so he declined the offer.

Darryl G
10-12-2010, 10:49 PM
I service the property...do what it takes to make it look good. I'm not about to get picky about leaves at this point but I'm not gonna just run them over and leave them all over the place either.

sdk1959
10-13-2010, 04:46 PM
Well, if they want me to do it, I will, for the right price. One thing we have to agree on is that some people who want to wait that long are notoriously cheap. payup
I do prefer the ones who let me manage the leaves till the big drop. But most only want leaf management once a week just like mowing so a lot of leaves can accumulate in 7 days. They do want the final to be spotless (if that's even possible). I have gone back and mulched after the major cleanup if the snow is late. Of course the leaf pile is much smaller then because all the leaves are off the trees, as long as the neighbors have cleaned up their mess. I have gotten calls just before Christmas, when there's no snow, (rare) to do a complete 2nd leaf removal because the wind brought the neighbors leaves into my customers yard.
You've got to remember that there are people in my area who will do a complete leaf removal, and do a good job for way less than we do. I know of one guy who spent 4 hours with 3 people and 3 pickup loads, on one of my customers neighbors yard for $150.00 including disposal. They did a good job too. Of course they went out of the business the next year but that's what we are up against. The neighbor tried to talk my customer into hiring them so they could get a $20.00 finders fee from the other lco. My customer, being a businessman himself said he knew they couldn't stay in business at those prices and that we would be around for a long time and know what we are doing so he declined the offer.

That guy you referred above to not only worked for free he lost money, especially if he had to pay a dump fee.

The one property I service with regular leafing mulching is about 1 acre & takes 2Hrs-21/2hrs by myself to blow out the beds, under shrubs, pick-up the sticks and mulch the leaves on the whole property. This will be the second year I done it, did one visit already and I charge $85.00 a visit and it will take 5-6 more visits till the leaves stop falling. One more in October and 3-4 in November. They told me they paid $750.00 in 2008 for a end of season fall clean-up and it took the 3 man crew 7-8 hours on-site plus any man hours used at the dump. The customer saves about $240.00 by mulching with 6 mulching visits and their property looks good for all of fall.

Any leaf mulch layer remaining is gone by the following May. So it's good for me and my customer.

Agape
10-13-2010, 08:35 PM
I have three landscape programs two of which include leaves, but I only remove them from the lawn weekly(mowing or blowing) so they dont kill the grass, with a final cleanup when all the leaves are down. I don't do a 4 hr cleanup every week for a regular service price. that would be insane.

Agape
10-13-2010, 08:47 PM
Your leaves must be different than ours. Either that or your customers don't give a damn how their lawn looks. 12 inches of leaves mulch down, at best, to 3 inches of mulched leaves. That saturates the lawn to the point you can't hide it in the grass stand.
Oops. Sorry. Misread your post. :o

agreed, thats crazy! I blow leaves onto the lawn and mow em up until they get too thick to do so, then I blow em off the lawn and do a final cleanup when they all have fallen-and only for the customers that have the service.

Agape
10-13-2010, 09:18 PM
If you were in my area I refer ALL of them to you. Turned down someone 2 weeks ago who called with a 5 acre lot for a end of season fall clean-up. Wanted me to wait till late November to do it. Yeah, ok buddy, sure thing.:laugh:

yeah, if you charge for your time like you should.

sdk1959
10-15-2010, 12:14 AM
yeah, if you charge for your time like you should.

Let's use for example a 1 acre heavily wooded property I mulch the leaves for $85.00 a visit for 6 visits working by myself taking me 2hrs a visit 12 hours total vs letting the yard go till the end of the season and charging $800.00 for total leaf collection and removal.

First let's look at the extra equipment to get the end of season never touched yard done most efficiently.

New Leaf Loader- $3000 Used if you can find it- $1500

Used Dump Truck $10,000 -$25,000 depending on age OR
a large dedicated trailer with sides AND another used pick-up truck to pull it to carry the leaves $15000.00

2 extra backpack blowers for crew $800-$1000

Tarps misc. $150

Labor:

3 man crew plus myself

Costs:

Dump Fees

$100.00

Labor $12.00 Per man hour x 3 man crew

Total man hours including windshield time and time at the dump 7 Hours x 3 = 21 total man hours x $12.00hr = $252.00

Total Gross Profit
$800-$252 labor-$100 dump fees = $448.00 gross profit- not bad for 7 hours my time but look at all the equipment I need purchase above first.

Leaf mulching 6 visits @ $85.00 a visit = $510.00 gross profit 12 hours my time- less $$ per hour but need no for additional equipment and labor.

If your full-time & do a lot of total leaf clean-up and removals your equipment investment would pay for itself the first year, part-time it would take many years and you need to maintain and store it somewhere. Leaf clean-up and removals are not for everybody.

Marcos
10-15-2010, 01:21 AM
I have been mowing and cleaning leafs for 4 years now.

What's a cryin' shame is that this so-called professional doesn't know much about the proper use of the English language! :dizzy:

youryardbarbourllc
10-15-2010, 06:21 PM
What's a cryin' shame is that this so-called professional doesn't know much about the proper use of the English language! :dizzy:

My apology, didn't know that lawnsite was a spelling bee. I will remember that next time I post.

Can you critique this post for me too when you get done cleaning some leaves Mr. teacher? Thank you :rolleyes:

Darryl G
10-15-2010, 06:47 PM
Your last sentence should start with Mr. Teacher (note the cap) and be be followed by a comma or colon (i.e. Mr. Teacher: Can you critique this post for me too when you get done cleaning some leaves?)

And exactly how do you clean leaves and why would you bother?

Hehe!

Marcos
10-17-2010, 02:09 PM
My apology, didn't know that lawnsite was a spelling bee. I will remember that next time I post.

Can you critique this post for me too when you get done cleaning some leaves Mr. teacher? Thank you :rolleyes:

My point is:

If you speak anything like the way you write or type (and most folks do), you certainly lose more prospects than you realize due to their perceptions that you're something less than literate.
Something for you to remember:
Even though there is no logical tie between the two, a certain percentage of people you deal with will assume illiteracy = dishonesty.

You may be the nicest, easiest to deal with guy in the world, of course I don't know.
But you've got to always put yourself in the shoes of your customers & your prospects!
Qs to ask of yourself:
What do I sound like to them? Are the words I use making sense to them? Am I making adequate eye contact with theirs? What message can I interpret from their return facial expressions?

If you go up to a prospect & say, or distribute literature with typos "leafs" or "threw", that's sort of like stepping into the batter's box with a count of 0 balls, 1 strike! :waving:

tobylou8
10-19-2010, 09:04 AM
I'm not up there I would do it if I was. :)

You would have to bag or blow. Simply too much material to mulch and not smother the grass. Been there, done that, ticked off the client. :)

tobylou8
10-19-2010, 09:07 AM
So you guys do all this extra work and dont get anything out of it? This is where i am confused. Your customers ask you to do this and you charge accordingly or you just do it for your regular mowing price?

HECK NO!!! IF I'm there, I'm getting paid. Way to much debris and work to do it free.

KFLAWN
10-20-2010, 07:36 PM
yea ok, I have the big units with baggers.

mulch here in michigan also. Doing some for 15+ years. Grass loves it and comes back lush year after year.
the trick is to not let them get to thick

Ole grass cutter
10-20-2010, 08:26 PM
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp30/bakerc8/DSCN0269.jpg i mulch too lol

Down here in St Augistine grass I would mulch every bit of these leaves in this pic with my 52" toro ZTR and it would look as good as if it were a summer cutting. We do it every year and have for over 25 years now. We service our customers every other week in the winter months so it doesn't get built up so bad.

The grass in this pic looks like it wouldn't do good trying to mulch them in so I can't say how it would work there.

Groomer
10-20-2010, 09:18 PM
"Down here in St. Augustine" tells the story. "Up here" in the cool season grassland, you can mulch for awhile, but CERTAIN properties need a leaf removal. This topic gets discussed EVERY year right here on good ole lawnsight. I just finished a 3 hr./ "cleanup" today, and the leaves will be removed by the vac truck, which is owned by friend in the biz, we all network around here. Pickup fees and hourly rates apply. Off in the AM to the next cleanup and cut!

Martinson9
10-29-2010, 01:15 PM
"Down here in St. Augustine" tells the story. "Up here" in the cool season grassland, you can mulch for awhile, but CERTAIN properties need a leaf removal. This topic gets discussed EVERY year right here on good ole lawnsight. I just finished a 3 hr./ "cleanup" today, and the leaves will be removed by the vac truck, which is owned by friend in the biz, we all network around here. Pickup fees and hourly rates apply. Off in the AM to the next cleanup and cut!

We're in Minnesota and I consider us to be cool season grassland. We've done such a good job mulching leaves that I'm worried some customers might balk at paying our fall cleanup fee. Some customers I just invoiced for October I said their last mowing/mulching was an "initial fall cleanup". That way they don't get the idea of trying to not pay for fall cleanup. On their next bill it will say "final fall cleanup".

The only lawns we are going to have any significant leaves at are the lawns that we only do a fall cleanup or where they have gates we can't get our 52 inch mulching mowers into.

ohdad34
10-29-2010, 09:01 PM
Down here in St Augistine grass I would mulch every bit of these leaves in this pic with my 52" toro ZTR and it would look as good as if it were a summer cutting. We do it every year and have for over 25 years now. We service our customers every other week in the winter months so it doesn't get built up so bad.

The grass in this pic looks like it wouldn't do good trying to mulch them in so I can't say how it would work there.

Uhmm yeah, if we waited two weeks here in NE OH, it would take 30 man hrs. per job.

mowZ06
10-29-2010, 10:03 PM
I have to bag, a little to thick here.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/1fstws6/000_1111.jpg

integrityman
10-29-2010, 10:15 PM
Unless we get rain I'm pretty much done mowing. I'll cut one more time in late Oct and then I'll wait til most all the leaves drop, usually early Dec and mulch em real good. I charge double for that last cut but my properties have a lot of leaves. I blow the leaves from their patios and sidewalks to the yard and then mulch em to dust.

Yup- me too, and it works great. My customers are thrilled, my competition frequently stops to ask, "how are you getting rid of those leaves?" Simple really, a mulch kit and Mamba blades. I double cut starting out at 3.5 inches, then drop it down to 3.25" for the final pass. In fact just did a property this pm that has three mature silver maple trees in the front yard. Wish I'd taken a before and after pick of the work. The next door neighbor came out and commented how good it looked by just mulching. "It grinds them up into nothing" I agreed and advised him that the organic matter from the pulverized leaves was great for the soil.

The university research has shown time and again mulched leaves are great for a lawn.

Grind em til ya can't find em!!!!

Ole grass cutter
10-29-2010, 10:16 PM
Uhmm yeah, if we waited two weeks here in NE OH, it would take 30 man hrs. per job.

Hate it for ya! So you service your customers weekly year round? We service ours 2 times a month in the winter months.

Ole grass cutter
10-29-2010, 10:19 PM
Yup- me too, and it works great. My customers are thrilled, my competition frequently stops to ask, "how are you getting rid of those leaves?" Simple really, a mulch kit and Mamba blades. I double cut starting out at 3.5 inches, then drop it down to 3.25" for the final pass. In fact just did a property this pm that has three mature silver maple trees in the front yard. Wish I'd taken a before and after pick of the work. The next door neighbor came out and commented how good it looked by just mulching. "It grinds them up into nothing" I agreed and advised him that the organic matter from the pulverized leaves was great for the soil.

The university research has shown time and again mulched leaves are great for a lawn.

Grind em til ya can't find em!!!!

Exactly! You can't tell some people though. Unless you try it you will never know. :drinkup:

integrityman
10-29-2010, 10:37 PM
Exactly! You can't tell some people though. Unless you try it you will never know. :drinkup:

I know. And I have a good number of wealthy customers on large heavily wooded lots. I mulch the leaves into NOTHING.

I have one property I refer to as "Hickory Hell". It has about 25 mature hickories and six enormous white oaks, surrounded by woods. The property is about 2.5 acres. I mulch and the grass comes out looking pristine, like a mid June cut.

I do occasionally test the PH for concern for potential decrease in ph from the oak leaves. Thus far soil ph is about a 7.5 just like the rest my lawns.

I do fertilize with a bit higher N in the fall and that does contribute to a good rich green too.

I couldnt be happier with my Toro ZTR with the kubota diesel and mulch kit.

abraham
11-04-2010, 08:19 PM
blow them into the neighbors yard,if they are not home.stop by the next day and offer to pick up the same leaves.thats how to double your $.

93Chevy
11-04-2010, 08:26 PM
blow them into the neighbors yard,if they are not home.stop by the next day and offer to pick up the same leaves.thats how to double your $.

Too bad my main 4 leaf accounts are right in a row. :laugh::laugh:

Darryl G
11-04-2010, 08:54 PM
I know. And I have a good number of wealthy customers on large heavily wooded lots. I mulch the leaves into NOTHING.

I have one property I refer to as "Hickory Hell". It has about 25 mature hickories and six enormous white oaks, surrounded by woods. The property is about 2.5 acres. I mulch and the grass comes out looking pristine, like a mid June cut.

I do occasionally test the PH for concern for potential decrease in ph from the oak leaves. Thus far soil ph is about a 7.5 just like the rest my lawns.

I do fertilize with a bit higher N in the fall and that does contribute to a good rich green too.

I couldnt be happier with my Toro ZTR with the kubota diesel and mulch kit.

What about all the hickory nuts and husks? Not that a bagger will pick up most of them, but just wondering how you deal with them.

sdk1959
11-04-2010, 09:22 PM
I know. And I have a good number of wealthy customers on large heavily wooded lots. I mulch the leaves into NOTHING.

I have one property I refer to as "Hickory Hell". It has about 25 mature hickories and six enormous white oaks, surrounded by woods. The property is about 2.5 acres. I mulch and the grass comes out looking pristine, like a mid June cut.

I do occasionally test the PH for concern for potential decrease in ph from the oak leaves. Thus far soil ph is about a 7.5 just like the rest my lawns.

I do fertilize with a bit higher N in the fall and that does contribute to a good rich green too.

I couldnt be happier with my Toro ZTR with the kubota diesel and mulch kit.

Mulching really is king. You just can't fight mother nature. Even if a LCO does a spotless leaf pick-up and removal unless the customer doesn't live next to the woods & ALL the customer's neighbors have taken care of thier leaves beforehand guess what? In a day or 2, less if it's windy, the spotless leaf free lawn is no more'. Scattered leaves all over the lawn. But I guess the customer's perception is just the opposite, that after all that expense & labor the lawn will remain virtually leaf free till next season. Yeah...... right......

Me, I'd much rather have the customer grounded in reality, they know their yard will never look perfectly leaf free for long, and know leaf mulching when done on a schedule is best for their wallet and lawn.

When it comes to leaves- Mother Nature ALWAY'S WINS.

mowZ06
11-04-2010, 10:30 PM
I bag all my yards when the leaves come down. The ultra vac will hold a lot and I make good time + I get a mowing in at the same time.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/1fstws6/000_1110.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/1fstws6/000_1111.jpg

KFLAWN
11-06-2010, 04:53 AM
Mulching really is king. You just can't fight mother nature. Even if a LCO does a spotless leaf pick-up and removal unless the customer doesn't live next to the woods & ALL the customer's neighbors have taken care of thier leaves beforehand guess what? In a day or 2, less if it's windy, the spotless leaf free lawn is no more'. Scattered leaves all over the lawn. But I guess the customer's perception is just the opposite, that after all that expense & labor the lawn will remain virtually leaf free till next season. Yeah...... right......

Me, I'd much rather have the customer grounded in reality, they know their yard will never look perfectly leaf free for long, and know leaf mulching when done on a schedule is best for their wallet and lawn.

When it comes to leaves- Mother Nature ALWAY'S WINS.

Perfectly said!

JayD
11-06-2010, 09:56 AM
I think people really just like the lawn to look clean and nice. Its just like after a good mowing, the lawn looks great and that's what they want. Just my $.02 for what its worth.

mowZ06
11-06-2010, 10:18 AM
Just about all of my customers want their yard spotless after I leave. Especially the ones on the course.

KFLAWN
11-06-2010, 06:31 PM
Just about all of my customers want their yard spotless after I leave. Especially the ones on the course.

who wouldnt

mowZ06
11-06-2010, 06:59 PM
I guess the ones that some of you guys have that are ok with just mulching them up and leaving them on the yard is what I meant.

Will P.C.
11-06-2010, 07:06 PM
The area I am servicing gets a large amount of leaves since it is around woods/golfcourse area. This is the first year I will running over the leaves with my gator blades and mulching instead of blowing. I have convinced a good many people that the leaves are organic mulch.

I have no clue how it will work out.

JCLawn and more
11-06-2010, 07:16 PM
I bag, if its to thick to bad, I mulch then bag. To thick is 5 inches of leaves over 40% of the yard. I had that yesterday, all oak leaves.

JCLawn and more
11-06-2010, 07:17 PM
the ones in the picture were not oak, and clean every nook and cranny it took about a hour

JayD
11-06-2010, 07:39 PM
the ones in the picture were not oak, and clean every nook and cranny it took about a hour

Looks good man......only an hour, thats good. What did you use?

STIHL GUY
11-06-2010, 08:02 PM
i just cut throught them untill i do the fall cleanup later in the year

JayD
11-06-2010, 08:24 PM
I have made up my mind, next year I will be guying a grass catcher. When i get it, it will be an upsale to use it.

Martinson9
11-06-2010, 08:26 PM
I guess the ones that some of you guys have that are ok with just mulching them up and leaving them on the yard is what I meant.

You must be doing something wrong if you can't mulch and make it look spotless.

We could mulch weekly and not have to use the baggers for a final cleanup. We do put the baggers on though for lawns that are fall cleanup only. Plus, some of the cheap customers might try to not pay us for fall cleanup if we didn't hau something away.

Our yards don't have any less leaves that the pictures you posted (we just don't let them get that bad) and the homes are all high end.

sdk1959
11-06-2010, 08:34 PM
The area I am servicing gets a large amount of leaves since it is around woods/golf course area. This is the first year I will running over the leaves with my gator blades and mulching instead of blowing. I have convinced a good many people that the leaves are organic mulch.

I have no clue how it will work out.

I mulch all my mowing accounts every fall and can give you a few tips to help you in your new leaf management program.

Leaf management is mulching or collecting the leaves over several visits DURING the fall season. This is the professional approach for dealing with leaves and is in the best interest of you and your customer. When the customer or LCO wants to wait till the END OF THE SEASON to mulch or collect the leaves that is NOT leaf management, that's called NEGLECT.

Customers with heavily wooded lots will need on average 4-6 mulching visits during the fall season. Customers who have few trees and are not surrounded by trees may need only 1-2 mulching visits.

All your leaf mulching visits should include blowing leaves out the beds, away from trees and fences, away from the house, off all hard surfaces,out from under shrubs. This is one of the things my customers like best about regular visits DURING the fall season in that their yard looks maintained and looks good for all of fall, -not neglected till the end. You will also find that you will get a lot of late season side work, such as hedge trimming, pruning trees, which is best done in the colder months anyway.

When mulching leaves I found the best technique if the leaves are a little thick is to mulch the leaves in the center portion of the yard first THEN blow in the perimeter leaves from under the shrubs, beds, fences, etc, to be mulched. This way you won't make huge piles to mulch all at once.

Avoid mulching leaves over a area where the grass is very thin or bare. Blow the leaves onto and mulch over a grassy area in the yard where there is adequate grass to hide any excess mulch layer.

If you do have excess leaf mulch blow the excess under a shrub if one is nearby or scatter them with your blower to a adjacent grassy area where there is little or no leaf mulch.

Pine needles- unless they are mixed in with leaves pine needles by themselves usually don't mulch well because they are so thin and stick in the grass plus being so thin your deck won't suck up many to be mulched. The best approach I found when there is a lot of pine needles to mulch is to blow them into a pile mulch over them a few times then pick them up with your 21" w/bagger. They will be reduced to a fraction of their volume and easy to pick-up.

Small lobe-less leaves usually don't mulch as well as big lobed leaves and may need more than one pass.

You will do fine with leaf mulching, just remember the key is doing it over several visits, not 1 or 2. There will be too many leaves too mulch if you let them accumulate. Good luck with your new leaf management program.Thumbs Up:cool2:

mowZ06
11-06-2010, 08:46 PM
You must be doing something wrong if you can't mulch and make it look spotless.

We could mulch weekly and not have to use the baggers for a final cleanup. We do put the baggers on though for lawns that are fall cleanup only. Plus, some of the cheap customers might try to not pay us for fall cleanup if we didn't hau something away.

Our yards don't have any less leaves that the pictures you posted (we just don't let them get that bad) and the homes are all high end.

LOL, Yeah I must be doing something wrong. 25 years in business with all happy customers and the referrals keep coming in :laugh:

mowZ06
11-06-2010, 09:04 PM
This yard was clean the week before 7-10 days . I would no way attempt to just mulch these up and leave them on the yard. Some yards I can get by doing this way. Not this one.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/1fstws6/000_1110.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/1fstws6/000_1111.jpg

KFLAWN
11-06-2010, 10:09 PM
[QUOTE=mowZ06;3781988]I guess the ones that some of you guys have that are ok with just mulching them up and leaving them on the yard is what I meant.[/QUOTE

those are gone as well

Barefoot James
11-06-2010, 11:24 PM
I mulch all my mowing accounts every fall and can give you a few tips to help you in your new leaf management program.

Leaf management is mulching or collecting the leaves over several visits DURING the fall season. This is the professional approach for dealing with leaves and is in the best interest of you and your customer. When the customer or LCO wants to wait till the END OF THE SEASON to mulch or collect the leaves that is NOT leaf management, that's called NEGLECT.

Customers with heavily wooded lots will need on average 4-6 mulching visits during the fall season. Customers who have few trees and are not surrounded by trees may need only 1-2 mulching visits.

All your leaf mulching visits should include blowing leaves out the beds, away from trees and fences, away from the house, off all hard surfaces,out from under shrubs. This is one of the things my customers like best about regular visits DURING the fall season in that their yard looks maintained and looks good for all of fall, -not neglected till the end. You will also find that you will get a lot of late season side work, such as hedge trimming, pruning trees, which is best done in the colder months anyway.

When mulching leaves I found the best technique if the leaves are a little thick is to mulch the leaves in the center portion of the yard first THEN blow in the perimeter leaves from under the shrubs, beds, fences, etc, to be mulched. This way you won't make huge piles to mulch all at once.

Avoid mulching leaves over a area where the grass is very thin or bare. Blow the leaves onto and mulch over a grassy area in the yard where there is adequate grass to hide any excess mulch layer.

If you do have excess leaf mulch blow the excess under a shrub if one is nearby or scatter them with your blower to a adjacent grassy area where there is little or no leaf mulch.

Pine needles- unless they are mixed in with leaves pine needles by themselves usually don't mulch well because they are so thin and stick in the grass plus being so thin your deck won't suck up many to be mulched. The best approach I found when there is a lot of pine needles to mulch is to blow them into a pile mulch over them a few times then pick them up with your 21" w/bagger. They will be reduced to a fraction of their volume and easy to pick-up.

Small lobe-less leaves usually don't mulch as well as big lobed leaves and may need more than one pass.

You will do fine with leaf mulching, just remember the key is doing it over several visits, not 1 or 2. There will be too many leaves too mulch if you let them accumulate. Good luck with your new leaf management program.Thumbs Up:cool2:

Great points and one other tip blow your neighbors leaves that boarder your properties as far into their yards as you can - ESPECIALLY on fence lines. This does two things 1. keeps their leafs off your property AND 2. actually helps your neighbors lawn company clean up the leafs on their side ( don't you wish many times you could be on the other side to help your side when you hit those fence lines?) Love the neighbor that comes out with WTF why are you blowing leafs in my yard? I calmly explain and next thing you know he helps you out too. :cool2:

sdk1959
11-07-2010, 12:03 AM
Great points and one other tip blow your neighbors leaves that boarder your properties as far into their yards as you can - ESPECIALLY on fence lines. This does two things 1. keeps their leafs off your property AND 2. actually helps your neighbors lawn company clean up the leafs on their side ( don't you wish many times you could be on the other side to help your side when you hit those fence lines?) Love the neighbor that comes out with WTF why are you blowing leafs in my yard? I calmly explain and next thing you know he helps you out too. :cool2:

I suppose you use a rake along a 200' fence, my how efficient, and for me to think using a backpack blower was the best way.:dizzy: Wouldn't want to co-mingle my customer's leaves with the neighbors. But wait!!! The neighbor has the oak tree and my customer doesn't! Why I oughta get a reward or something for returning his leaves to his property from whence they came!:laugh:

Look at photos in post #110, he said he just did the lawn 7-10 days ago and removed all the leaves. Their baaack.... Be pretty hard to see a thin leaf mulch layer under all those leaves if he mulched them on his last visit of which they would decompose and be gone come the following May if not sooner because mulched leaves are NOT mulched plastic.

Like I stated in a previous post, when it come to leaves, mother nature alway's wins, a leaf-free lawn is no more in 1-2 days, less if it's windy.

Barefoot James
11-07-2010, 01:11 AM
I suppose you use a rake along a 200' fence, my how efficient, and for me to think using a backpack blower was the best way.:dizzy:
Huh!:confused: I use a 8050 Remax and blow the 200 ft of fence line out off the fence line - but what I taking about is when I'm doing this I also blow the leaf on the other side out away from the fence line to help the neighbor out. Cause he is gonna blow his line off too and wham the next day I got leafs back on my side, so it you condition folks when they do it too you get back what you gave does this make any sense? Just rying to help you out too!

sdk1959
11-07-2010, 01:42 AM
Huh!:confused: I use a 8050 Remax and blow the 200 ft of fence line out off the fence line - but what I taking about is when I'm doing this I also blow the leaf on the other side out away from the fence line to help the neighbor out. Cause he is gonna blow his line off too and wham the next day I got leafs back on my side, so it you condition folks when they do it too you get back what you gave does this make any sense? Just trying to help you out too!

Sorry, I thought you were being sarcastic. I do what you said above on occasion, but most of my properties with fences are chain link, so leaf blowback isn't a issue.

Richard Martin
11-07-2010, 02:31 AM
the ones in the picture were not oak,

I'm glad you clarified that. They looked an awful lot like Maple leaves on my screen.

mowZ06
11-07-2010, 06:55 AM
just about everyone of my customers request leaf removal and want them placed on the street like the neighbors for city pick up. This is a big reason why I bag + most all the lawn services in my area place them on the street/curb for pick up. I do what the customer wants done and I get paid to do that. I have been doing it this way for many years and it seems to work just fine. If mulching leaves up in the yard works for you then that is great. On some of my yards the entire street has leaves lined up for pick some from home owners and some from lawn companys.

integrityman
11-07-2010, 08:39 AM
Long-term studies at Michigan State, Cornell, Rutgers and Purdue have concluded that mulching is an excellent disposal method and doesn't harm healthy turf. In fact, data suggests an increase in water-infiltration rates and microbial activity, making the soil healthier. The studies showed that mulching leaves into turf has no adverse effect on turf visual quality or color, growth, thatch, soil pH or nutrient availability, and there's no incidence of dollar spot and no effect on weed infestation either.

Mulching leaves falls under the category of evidentiary best practices. Statistical research has shown mulching leaves is economical, healthful and beneficial to lawns and does not tie up landfill space.

As industry professionals, we should be concerned with not only what our customers demand, but also, what research proves works. Additionally, we as professionals have a responsibility to educate our customer base as to industry best practices.

I mulch and the results are identical as an LCO that bags, even on lawns that have dozens of full size hardwood trees.

integrityman
11-07-2010, 08:47 AM
What about all the hickory nuts and husks? Not that a bagger will pick up most of them, but just wondering how you deal with them.

Sorry for the delay in reply. The hulls from the hickories grind up. The actual nut however are a total pain in the ass. I go around with my back pack blower and blow into piles and shovel em up with a mulch shovel and wheel barrow. Charge accordingly.

mowZ06
11-07-2010, 08:55 AM
I have a few yards that I could just mulch up. Going to buy a set of these Mamba high lifts and give it a go.

Martinson9
11-07-2010, 09:24 AM
I have a few yards that I could just mulch up. Going to buy a set of these Mamba high lifts and give it a go.

Keep in mind a mulch kit from the manufacturer will work the best. The kit has the shrouds that close off each blade plus the shutoff plate for the deck opening. At a minimum you'll need a shutoff plate.

Mulch kits for our Toros run about $300. Best $300 we spend. Eliminates tons of work in the fall.

mowZ06
11-07-2010, 09:28 AM
Next fall I will give it a try.

Barefoot James
11-07-2010, 02:59 PM
but most of my properties with fences are chain link, so leaf blowback isn't a issue.

OK now that we understand each other - ponder this.

Reread your above statement and ask your self young grasshopper (from Kung Fu) - (sarcastic - LOL), but seriously IF you could blow off your fence line on YOUR property would you rather try to use the backpack, blowing the leafs side ways from the fence and out into your property OR be on the other side of the fence and blow them straight out??? hum.... thinking.... has the little light bulb gone off yet (more sarcasium - but serious). It is all about learning on this site for me too! Us old guys do know a thing or two and if you condition others this will make your life easier - just a tip!
Lesson over!

Barefoot James
11-07-2010, 03:15 PM
Long-term studies at Michigan State, Cornell, Rutgers and Purdue have concluded that mulching is an excellent disposal method and doesn't harm healthy turf. In fact, data suggests an increase in water-infiltration rates and microbial activity, making the soil healthier. The studies showed that mulching leaves into turf has no adverse effect on turf visual quality or color, growth, thatch, soil pH or nutrient availability, and there's no incidence of dollar spot and no effect on weed infestation either.

Mulching leaves falls under the category of evidentiary best practices. Statistical research has shown mulching leaves is economical, healthful and beneficial to lawns and does not tie up landfill space.

As industry professionals, we should be concerned with not only what our customers demand, but also, what research proves works. Additionally, we as professionals have a responsibility to educate our customer base as to industry best practices.

I mulch and the results are identical as an LCO that bags, even on lawns that have dozens of full size hardwood trees.

35 years of mowing yards with healthy, mature hardwoods tells me other wise. Look at the pictures again and tell me what you see of turf under big hardwoods. USUALLY the turf is horriable - WHY? Cause trees fix the soil to their requirements through leaf drop. They (trees) want the soil to be heavy fungural to bacterial. Turf grass requires a balance. So mulching into the turf over and over under trees over the years will ruin healthy turf grass to what you see in most of the pictures on this site. Heathy for the trees - yes but not the turf.
Decomposing leafs deplete the N out of the soil to help them decompose, they throw the Mag to Cal ratios out of proportion and create compaction. Most major cities have yard waste pick up and trash pick up. The yard waste goes to municipal composting site (ususally at the land fill) and is sold back to us - so it is a sustainable method too and allows us or the homeowner to actually grow quality turf grass under trees, if that is what we choose to do or we can grind them into the ground and ..... On this subject I know my stuff cause I live it.

integrityman
11-07-2010, 04:34 PM
I have a few yards that I could just mulch up. Going to buy a set of these Mamba high lifts and give it a go.

Do you have a mulch kit for your mower?

integrityman
11-07-2010, 04:37 PM
Keep in mind a mulch kit from the manufacturer will work the best. The kit has the shrouds that close off each blade plus the shutoff plate for the deck opening. At a minimum you'll need a shutoff plate.

Mulch kits for our Toros run about $300. Best $300 we spend. Eliminates tons of work in the fall.

Right on, Right on!

integrityman
11-07-2010, 04:48 PM
35 years of mowing yards with healthy, mature hardwoods tells me other wise. Look at the pictures again and tell me what you see of turf under big hardwoods. USUALLY the turf is horriable - WHY? Cause trees fix the soil to their requirements through leaf drop. They (trees) want the soil to be heavy fungural to bacterial. Turf grass requires a balance. So mulching into the turf over and over under trees over the years will ruin healthy turf grass to what you see in most of the pictures on this site. Heathy for the trees - yes but not the turf.
Decomposing leafs deplete the N out of the soil to help them decompose, they throw the Mag to Cal ratios out of proportion and create compaction. Most major cities have yard waste pick up and trash pick up. The yard waste goes to municipal composting site (ususally at the land fill) and is sold back to us - so it is a sustainable method too and allows us or the homeowner to actually grow quality turf grass under trees, if that is what we choose to do or we can grind them into the ground and ..... On this subject I know my stuff cause I live it.


Please read the actual research for yourself. You seem relatively bright, albeit closed minded. Ive been in the biz since 1984. I have NEVER gone wrong with mulching. As far as Nitrogen levels being thrown out of whack and increased compaction, definitely NOT accurate.

http://www.grounds-mag.com/mag/grounds_maintenance_leaves_turn_litter/

integrityman
11-07-2010, 04:52 PM
Read on........

http://www.agry.purdue.edu/turf/report/1999/page24.htm

integrityman
11-07-2010, 05:08 PM
This should clear up your calcium confusion too.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/7qbmkhhgrbu4ubw9/

Barefoot James
11-07-2010, 06:10 PM
Integrity -

I'm not that smart to even begin to understand the last report you sent and I do understand the other two in synopsis form and the Dirt Doc Howard Garret actually sent the second one out this past week so I have read this twice now. All I do know is if you get cal to mag ratios up to 7:1 or higher you do not have compaction issues. We do not chase ph here in KY as most soil tests we have done are always in the 6.8 to 7 range which is basically balanced so a none issue. It boils down to fungi vs bacteria (leaf drop helps create soil trees like - getting them off helps balance the soil to support healthy trees and turf grass) and compaction for growing quality fescue turf grass under hardwood canopies and driving a mower over and over a lawn in fall to mulch is for sure compacting soil, looks bad and by winter the soil is already showing significant thinning and never recovers by even late spring. When I say quality fescue turf grass I'm talking turf that looks like Augusta National here in KY in Nov/Dec it is that emerald green and healthy looking by getting the leaves OFF. Light leaf mulching, no problem, do it all the time, a little, I'm sure helps even, but heavy leaf drop you have got to be kidding me. I have some of the best turf properties here in this city as do others that get the leaves off. We are not talking about average or poor quality turf grass (like the guys that had to skip mowing the entire month of Sept & Oct because even crab and bermuda or weeds for that matter did not grow due to the lack of rain we have had here), we are talking folks who pay for these services because they expect spring and summer looking turf grass under their trees, in the fall and early winter. I have tried your ways before and got thinning bad looking results - I use mulch blades on a Wright 52 inch Stander and it will pulverize mulch to literal dust on concrete, but the abuse to do this over high end turf is not worth the results it gives so my close mind based on university studies vs doing this since the 60's does not mean much to me.

Plus I have soil tests run - over a thousand (over the years) that show results. I look for 2 key indicators -
1. Organic matter counts from 1% to 4% in one year and up to 7% in three
2. 7:1 even 9:1 Cal to Mag ratios in 1 year.
All I care about is results. Results mean paying for my kids college and keeping a roof over my head. Results are what grows my business and brings smiles to my clients faces.

These are the numbers I care about. I use high quality compost to cover fall seedings, use irrigation below and above ground on every property I do - Or I don't do it! I do N apps each fall and winter and get results, golf course results under trees in yards. So that said my way works for me and I just want folks to know there are more than one ways to skin a cat and if your way works for you great keep doing it, but mulching heavy leaf drop into the ground does not work for me so I can't just read this stuff and not explain - in detail - and I think many others especially up east, would side with me too, based on our years and years of professional experience. So how is that for a run on sentence? LOL

sdk1959
11-07-2010, 06:14 PM
OK now that we understand each other - ponder this.

Reread your above statement and ask your self young grasshopper (from Kung Fu) - (sarcastic - LOL), but seriously IF you could blow off your fence line on YOUR property would you rather try to use the backpack, blowing the leafs side ways from the fence and out into your property OR be on the other side of the fence and blow them straight out??? hum.... thinking.... has the little light bulb gone off yet (more sarcasm - but serious). It is all about learning on this site for me too! Us old guys do know a thing or two and if you condition others this will make your life easier - just a tip!
Lesson over!

Yup, I much rather blow it sideways & do that too if the properties have no fence. If it has a chain link fence and it is 4' or lower I will reach over & use my handheld blower from the other side to blow the leaves away from the fence from the other side. I normally use both a backpack blower and a handheld blower at the same time for leaf jobs.

mowZ06
11-07-2010, 06:20 PM
Do you have a mulch kit for your mower?

Will buy one for next years season. Any advice ? I have an older Lazer Ultra 60"

TheC-Master
11-07-2010, 06:22 PM
I mulch all my mowing accounts every fall and can give you a few tips to help you in your new leaf management program.

Leaf management is mulching or collecting the leaves over several visits DURING the fall season. This is the professional approach for dealing with leaves and is in the best interest of you and your customer. When the customer or LCO wants to wait till the END OF THE SEASON to mulch or collect the leaves that is NOT leaf management, that's called NEGLECT.

Customers with heavily wooded lots will need on average 4-6 mulching visits during the fall season. Customers who have few trees and are not surrounded by trees may need only 1-2 mulching visits.

All your leaf mulching visits should include blowing leaves out the beds, away from trees and fences, away from the house, off all hard surfaces,out from under shrubs. This is one of the things my customers like best about regular visits DURING the fall season in that their yard looks maintained and looks good for all of fall, -not neglected till the end. You will also find that you will get a lot of late season side work, such as hedge trimming, pruning trees, which is best done in the colder months anyway.

When mulching leaves I found the best technique if the leaves are a little thick is to mulch the leaves in the center portion of the yard first THEN blow in the perimeter leaves from under the shrubs, beds, fences, etc, to be mulched. This way you won't make huge piles to mulch all at once.

Avoid mulching leaves over a area where the grass is very thin or bare. Blow the leaves onto and mulch over a grassy area in the yard where there is adequate grass to hide any excess mulch layer.

If you do have excess leaf mulch blow the excess under a shrub if one is nearby or scatter them with your blower to a adjacent grassy area where there is little or no leaf mulch.

Pine needles- unless they are mixed in with leaves pine needles by themselves usually don't mulch well because they are so thin and stick in the grass plus being so thin your deck won't suck up many to be mulched. The best approach I found when there is a lot of pine needles to mulch is to blow them into a pile mulch over them a few times then pick them up with your 21" w/bagger. They will be reduced to a fraction of their volume and easy to pick-up.

Small lobe-less leaves usually don't mulch as well as big lobed leaves and may need more than one pass.

You will do fine with leaf mulching, just remember the key is doing it over several visits, not 1 or 2. There will be too many leaves too mulch if you let them accumulate. Good luck with your new leaf management program.Thumbs Up:cool2:

Great points and post. I mulch and I have wonderful results from it. Raking just takes too long and I have no need to bag. I just use the mulching kit. Keeps the year round service going strong. Yes it's best not to let it get too bad before you do it as well. We go biweekly to do it, so there is no extra "thickness" there.

integrityman
11-07-2010, 06:33 PM
barefoot-

My turf under and outside of canopied trees is always nice bright green too. Always. My soil tests routinely yield very balanced/ appropriate N-P-K and C, Ca and Mg and trace element levels. Healthful bacteria levels are well above average etc. Consider this. Light reflection under a canopy will always cast a different reflection of the diffused light. Further, when you mow you are stimulating a very quick release and production of chlorophyll. Hence the brilliant green appearance of freshly cut grass.


Compaction is a standard occurrence with any operation of a heavy mower. Hence the need for aeration. Compaction is NOT the result of mulching leaves.

The fact you use irrigation also explains your nice green appearance.

TheC-Master
11-07-2010, 06:54 PM
Mulching really is king. You just can't fight mother nature. Even if a LCO does a spotless leaf pick-up and removal unless the customer doesn't live next to the woods & ALL the customer's neighbors have taken care of thier leaves beforehand guess what? In a day or 2, less if it's windy, the spotless leaf free lawn is no more'. Scattered leaves all over the lawn. But I guess the customer's perception is just the opposite, that after all that expense & labor the lawn will remain virtually leaf free till next season. Yeah...... right......

Me, I'd much rather have the customer grounded in reality, they know their yard will never look perfectly leaf free for long, and know leaf mulching when done on a schedule is best for their wallet and lawn.

When it comes to leaves- Mother Nature ALWAY'S WINS.Pretty much. Had one guy who great work was done on and wanted acorn removal, we said it was extra but the lawn looked great. He wanted it to look like nothing was there. I told him even if we did it, the stuff would fall back in 2-3 days, and the family thought it looked good. Funny how they complained after letting the lawn go like they did. Either way I've had great results mulching for years. We also mulch bush clippings instead of hauling them, saves massive amounts of time and money.

integrityman
11-07-2010, 08:03 PM
Pretty much. Had one guy who great work was done on and wanted acorn removal, we said it was extra but the lawn looked great. He wanted it to look like nothing was there. I told him even if we did it, the stuff would fall back in 2-3 days, and the family thought it looked good. Funny how they complained after letting the lawn go like they did. Either way I've had great results mulching for years. We also mulch bush clippings instead of hauling them, saves massive amounts of time and money.

Bush clippings cut up just fine, just remember to sharpen the blades a little more often.

TheC-Master
11-07-2010, 09:58 PM
Bush clippings cut up just fine, just remember to sharpen the blades a little more often.
Absolutely. Saves time and looks great and is good. Win on all sides. I've had no complaints about mulching except for the aforementioned. But it looked clean, he didn't understand that the stuff continues to fall. There wasn't "a layer" just a leaf or two by a tree on a windy day. C'mon.

JCLawn and more
11-07-2010, 10:41 PM
Looks good man......only an hour, thats good. What did you use?

woods 6215 with the woods bagger. This is the same as a 721D grasshopper. Its a 1994 to boot

sdk1959
11-07-2010, 11:20 PM
Pretty much. Had one guy who great work was done on and wanted acorn removal, we said it was extra but the lawn looked great. He wanted it to look like nothing was there. I told him even if we did it, the stuff would fall back in 2-3 days, and the family thought it looked good. Funny how they complained after letting the lawn go like they did. Either way I've had great results mulching for years. We also mulch bush clippings instead of hauling them, saves massive amounts of time and money.

When I trim hedges & do pruning I will mulch and bag the bush clippings with the 21" w/bagger instead of just raking or blowing them out the beds then bagging them. Mulching with the bagger on reduces the bush clippings volume by at least 6 fold if not more. Saves a lot of time vs trying to bag them as is. Mulch and bag one bag of bush clippings instead of 6 bags. Great time saver.

JCLawn and more
11-07-2010, 11:45 PM
I'm glad you clarified that. They looked an awful lot like Maple leaves on my screen.

Maple leaves are a piece of cake. It mulches up in my hopper into about dust. Oak is more like quarter size or a little bigger. I don't use gator blade, just high lift.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
11-08-2010, 12:35 PM
I mulch 95% of the leaf cover I see, which is usually fairly thin. If it is thick and matted, I bag and haul for extra cost.