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View Full Version : Anyone using biodiesel in a machine or truck?


swanny
10-05-2010, 10:07 PM
I snagged an almost new 500 gallon tank and gasboy pump off craigslist the other day with almost 300 gallons of b100 (pure soy) for $295. Hardest thing was getting it on the trailer after backing it in between a slew of kayaks.

I mixed it 50/50 in the Takkie and my Ford 7.3 powerstroke - they seem to like it. Stinks pretty bad. Makes the smoke alarm go off really quickly in the barn when I park the Takkie, but makes the Ford noticeably quieter and smoother (165k miles).

Guess I'll have to watch the gel factor this time of year with the temps dropping.

NateV
10-05-2010, 10:26 PM
We've never ran it and never will, but from the guys we know that have ran it, its not worth it. Too many head aches

bobcat_ron
10-05-2010, 10:36 PM
I'm burning a 15% mix, I hate it, no power and my foot is always in the floor more often, screw the enviroment, I want power.

Dirtman2007
10-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Fuel filters cost way to much for my 6.0, I don't want to change them no more then I have too.

I heard that stuff was horrible on some filters

Summit L & D
10-06-2010, 12:47 AM
I know guys running it in 7.3's with no problems. Biodiesel lubricates better...thats probably why you're noticing it running smoother.

Gravel Rat
10-06-2010, 01:09 AM
I wouldn't be using bio diesel in a 6.0-6.4 or the new 6.7 the tollerances for fuel quality is tight.

Old mechanical injection can take bio diesel your not dealing with the high pressures. Trying to save some money make cost you big money in the end so it usually isn't worth messing with anything but diesel fuel.

westcoh
10-06-2010, 01:49 AM
Arren't the 7.3 era Fords known to have the fuel tank delaminate from biodiesel blended fuel?

Krafty
10-06-2010, 08:56 AM
I have an old gmc 6.5 diesel. It was an ex MO DOT truck and had Bio Diesel run in it most of its life. It played hell on that engine. It was a mechanics truck so only one guy ever ran it. When I bought it he said he would have to put and injection pump in the truck every 15 to 20 thousand miles. It just donest have the lubrication like the regular fuel deffinetly not worth it at all.

RockSet N' Grade
10-06-2010, 09:23 AM
I converted one of my dump trucks to run on vegetable oil. I devised my own filtering/pumping station. I have 3-400 gallons of fuel ready oil ready to go.........it has been sitting there for several years now and I have no intent on running it through any of my rigs any more. I started blowing injectors off a newly rebuilt motor and after replacing a bunch of injectors, I figured I was lucky that I did not suck one down the motor. At this point, the technology of our engines is not compatible. Old vw's and mercedes work well with this stuff, but equipment and big trucks - not me anymore!

zabmasonry
10-06-2010, 12:25 PM
It just donest have the lubrication like the regular fuel deffinetly not worth it at all.

Not true.

Bio has way better lubricative properties then ULSD, for this reason many folks blend bio in as a lubricant for their engines usually at 1 or 2 percent B2 or B1 sometimes B5.

Biodiesel has no less energy per gallon in relation to diesel, then gasoline with 10% ethanol has compared to 100 percent 87 octane.

Most issues with biodiesel come from poor fuel quality. Because bio doesn't have an industry standard, its getting a bad name from low quality fuel. A few things to watch out for with bio.

1. Water, particularly if made from used oil, water can be a definite problem, look for a facility that dewaters and tests the oil before processing.

2. Temperature, although producers will claim that bio is good down to somewhere around 40F, it really wants to be kept above 80.

3. Age, Bio is prone to growing algae (diesel grows algae too), this can gum things up in a hurry. Make sure your buying fresh biodiesel, and treat it too.

4. Biodiesel has cleaning properties, it will tend to lift up all the junk built up in fuel systems, if you are switching over, plan on doing the fuel filter very soon.

Is it easy, no, but it can be a pretty cool thing. and can potentially save you money. Its just about quality control

swanny
10-06-2010, 01:38 PM
Arren't the 7.3 era Fords known to have the fuel tank delaminate from biodiesel blended fuel?

I did see some info. about that...I have a plastic tank in my Superduty...no worries. Lots of anecdotal evidence floating around.

Ron - are you forced to use B15 if you don't like it?

I'll end up using the rest of the tank as an additive to cut the petro stuff. Once it's down low enough I'm filling it up with petro to make it a 20% blend.

Zab - thanks for the info.. Any suggestions on what to treat this stuff with?

Krafty
10-06-2010, 03:43 PM
Not true.

Bio has way better lubricative properties then ULSD, for this reason many folks blend bio in as a lubricant for their engines usually at 1 or 2 percent B2 or B1 sometimes B5.

Biodiesel has no less energy per gallon in relation to diesel, then gasoline with 10% ethanol has compared to 100 percent 87 octane.

Most issues with biodiesel come from poor fuel quality. Because bio doesn't have an industry standard, its getting a bad name from low quality fuel. A few things to watch out for with bio.

1. Water, particularly if made from used oil, water can be a definite problem, look for a facility that dewaters and tests the oil before processing.



2. Temperature, although producers will claim that bio is good down to somewhere around 40F, it really wants to be kept above 80.

3. Age, Bio is prone to growing algae (diesel grows algae too), this can gum things up in a hurry. Make sure your buying fresh biodiesel, and treat it too.

4. Biodiesel has cleaning properties, it will tend to lift up all the junk built up in fuel systems, if you are switching over, plan on doing the fuel filter very soon.

Is it easy, no, but it can be a pretty cool thing. and can potentially save you money. Its just about quality control


Well not sure about any of this as I am not a mechanic. All I know is when I took the pump off and took it to St. Louis Diesel Injection Service, they told me the pump was shot from running Bio Diesel. They told me that the pump was not properly lubricated and that is why it caused the pump to fail pre maturly at less then 15,000 miles. Weather it is just a bad fuel or not lubricated properly who cares... why take a chance at 1,000 a pop injection pumps, and the down time while it is getting fixed.

MarcSmith
10-06-2010, 04:25 PM
nothing but trouble here with BioD even @ 5% our problems began with we got an animal fat version of bioD and the next run a veggie BioD the two did not like each other. played hell on the filters on the pump and buses...Had to have a 2K tank pumped and cleaned. we go 5% biod every other tank full problems have lessened. but I won't run it in the skid or back hoe in the winter time since they sit out side from time to time..

replace filters on 26 transit buses.

zabmasonry
10-06-2010, 04:43 PM
animal fat biodiesel, never heard of that before, have to admit that sounds like a terrible idea.

ProTouch Groundscapes
10-06-2010, 05:27 PM
had a guy i know that ran used motor oil in his 7.3 that he filtered down using home water filters. he ran some ridiculous percentages as well, like 50% he told me once???

said he read it on some diesel forum, had issues with injectors etc... but he still does it.

i drove the truck once and my eyes were watering from the fumes.

edit: i never fully investigated this option until just now after i typed this response, and it seems pretty established. i might set something up to be used in our diesel equipment, id never try it in the trucks though...

bobcat_ron
10-06-2010, 11:48 PM
I did see some info. about that...I have a plastic tank in my Superduty...no worries. Lots of anecdotal evidence floating around.

Ron - are you forced to use B15 if you don't like it?



It's bulk fuel from a better (and cheaper) dealer.

Bobcat'nSTL
10-07-2010, 01:08 AM
My dad burns used trany fluid in his 04 6.0 powerstroke. He usualy runs a mixture but it seems to like it. It dosnt get as good of fuel milage but hey since he gets it for free why not use it.
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tallrick
10-07-2010, 01:35 AM
I have made biodiesel for many years and have had no problems. However, I use a fractional distillation process that also works on used motor oil. Using transesterfication is a bad way to make biodiesel in my opinion. My dad has run his diesel Mercedes on waste vegetable oil for many years, and my own pickup truck runs on biodiesel and waste vegetable oil at the current time. My experience has been that everyone else I have known who has made alternative fuels has given up. Even myself, I purchased biodiesel from a supplier and it caused my dozer to lose power and die. Further analysis showed the fuel was not correctly washed. Classic diesels without electronics should all run on vegetable oil as Rudolpf intended.

wanabe
10-07-2010, 08:21 AM
Be ready to change filters. Soy bio is a great tank cleaner.

tnmtn
10-07-2010, 08:40 AM
i have run my 7.3 ford on up to B20 biodiesel. it is noticibly quieter and smoother running with no loss of power. i liked the lubrication qualities as opposed to ulsd. until it is better regulated i'm not sure i would run more than B5 in a newer electronic truck.

jefftb
10-07-2010, 12:30 PM
i have run my 7.3 ford on up to B20 biodiesel. it is noticibly quieter and smoother running with no loss of power. i liked the lubrication qualities as opposed to ulsd. until it is better regulated i'm not sure i would run more than B5 in a newer electronic truck.

X2

I've run B20 in my 2003 F350 and the comparison between the truck on B20 and ULSD is downright scary. Truck feels like it ha more power and is much, much quieter.

I doubt its more powerful since B20 and B5 blends have slightly less BTU content than straight petro ULSD. Slightly as in 1-3%. However the lubricity is much greater so its the thing that makes the engine less noisy.

Most new vehicles would have some trouble on B20 but should do fine on B5/B2 and most new carmakers warranty their engines up to B5.

Anything above B20 is a gamble on all but the oldest diesels in many cases.

gatorguy
10-10-2010, 01:59 AM
I agree that the bio is a cleanser and when you suddenly introduce it to a system that has been running straight ulsd for a while it will break loose all the trash and stop up the filter, after a couple of tanks this problem should dissapear.

grillonz
11-06-2010, 05:59 AM
I have recently started running Biodiesel in 2 trucks & tractor. So For the tractor I run a b20 mix but both trucks are running on pure Biodiesel. I source it from a commercial supplier. Here in New Zealand for biodiesel producers to apply for grants they need to make their product to fuel standard. The producer is visited & a sample is taken which is interdependently tested. So quality is not a major problem. All my diesels are the older style so have had no problems. The Nissan shows the biggest improvement in that the smoke is almost completely eliminated. The motor I have (TD27) is normally known as a "coal burner". I have found that due to a higher flash point that use of pre-heat is needed when starting from cold. Price wise its currently 15c/Litre cheaper than petroleum diesel.

YellowDogSVC
11-06-2010, 02:22 PM
Be ready to change filters. Soy bio is a great tank cleaner.

pretty soon we will see it injected for cholesterol.. seriously!

replenish&subdue
08-13-2011, 01:00 PM
I use 100% bio-diesel. Runs smoother,can not detect loss of power. I run a 2002 Dodge 3500 and 1996 Ford 250.My conclusion is that people have problems because they use old technology.

SouthSide Cutter
08-13-2011, 04:46 PM
Some have tried it around here with big problems. Causes a algie in the tank and clogs everything up. And will grow in your tank unless treated. Ran some from local station. Filters used to be clean only wet looking, then they went to tar black with a goo on them. Went back to other fuel and after a few filters back to normal. Also used a tank cleaner to be sure it was all out. No more for me. Best diesel fuel out there in our area is Sunoco, Marathon and Country Mark its all the same. Has high C rating and never causes trouble. Gets better fuel milage and Hp.

dboyd351
09-05-2011, 08:33 AM
Zab - thanks for the info.. Any suggestions on what to treat this stuff with?

Might want to check with marine dealers. Algae growing in diesel fuel is a big problem in marine engines, probably because the fuel often sits much longer.

swanny
09-05-2011, 09:48 AM
Some have tried it around here with big problems. Causes a algie in the tank and clogs everything up. And will grow in your tank unless treated. Ran some from local station. Filters used to be clean only wet looking, then they went to tar black with a goo on them. Went back to other fuel and after a few filters back to normal. Also used a tank cleaner to be sure it was all out. No more for me. Best diesel fuel out there in our area is Sunoco, Marathon and Country Mark its all the same. Has high C rating and never causes trouble. Gets better fuel milage and Hp.


It caught up to me eventually even though I replaced a couple fuel filters early on. Clogged the mixing bowl strainers up in my tank which led to my fuel pump working overtime - had to take everything apart, clean the screens and bowl, replace the pump. I even treated the fuel with the anti-algae potion. Hopefully, my injectors aren't scratched and worn from lack of fuel.

Bunton Guy
09-05-2011, 06:10 PM
On the other page in which someone said it killed their injection pump on their 6.5 diesel? That's not due to the bio diesel. the 6.5 gm diesel was one of the top 3 worst diesel engine disasters! ....they were notorious for burning up injection pumps every 25K miles on their own. Has nothing to do with bio fuels.

StihlMechanic
09-05-2011, 06:13 PM
I have run 100% WMO in my 7.3 IDI from time to time. Runs the same as diesel and its free.

badbart
09-14-2011, 10:56 PM
One of the properties of bio-diesel is that it INCREASES lubrication of all fuel related components. Whatever diesel shop told you otherwise is probably either dishonest, or just doesn't know what they're talking about. I ran B20 in my 98 C2500 for years without any problems (other than changing fuel filters more frequently at first). The injection pump was changed at 96K miles, well before I started the B20. It now has 237K miles, still running strong. I don't use bio any longer, only due to no availability. We use red diesel on the farm on all the equipment, not the trucks. It's about .50 cheaper than on-road diesel, so keep that in mind when buying mowers. Our JD 997 sips fuel compared to the Kawasaki's on the smaller mowers we've used. Also, be advised, the new (2011) Ford diesels (F250-F350) are certified to use B20.

BCM
09-23-2011, 10:51 PM
I"ve been making my own bio for 5 years now, and running it at 90% in two of my duramaxs and one of my 6.5 turbo diesels....have never had any problems at all. it all depends on how you make it i went to school for a week on how to properly make bio from one of the leading experts that sets up the constant flow bio plants around the world.

swanny
09-23-2011, 11:01 PM
I"ve been making my own bio for 5 years now, and running it at 90% in two of my duramaxs and one of my 6.5 turbo diesels....have never had any problems at all. it all depends on how you make it i went to school for a week on how to properly make bio from one of the leading experts that sets up the constant flow bio plants around the world.

What are you making it out of?

JDiepstra
09-23-2011, 11:02 PM
Incredible amount of bad info in this thread! Some good as well. Good luck sorting it out!

cleanairNC
10-21-2011, 12:13 PM
I run B100 made from a reputable company (very high quality) in my Kubota ZD221. Never had any problems and with regular maintenance, it's been nothing but reliable. It's all about fuel quality when considering running bio-fuels.