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BLC1
10-08-2010, 12:11 AM
Run the pros and cons of having a dump truck or dump trailer...

h2oskier
10-08-2010, 04:08 AM
Depending on the job pretty much payload

4 seasons lawn&land
10-08-2010, 11:52 AM
Depends on size of each

trailer on a pickup=cheaper insurance than dump truck
trucks carry the weight better
Trailer- lower height can be loaded with just about anything and you can do haul aways without a chipper or leaf loader but fills up pretty quick

hosejockey2002
10-08-2010, 12:07 PM
A trailer can haul much more weight that a truck pulling it, as mentioned before the height is lower making it easier to load. Advantages of a dump (or pickup with dump insert) are that the higher floor height makes dumping in a pile easier, and the big one is you can put a truck into tight spaces that you'd never dream of putting a trailer. You just have to figure out what will work better for you.

4 seasons lawn&land
10-08-2010, 12:29 PM
trailers wont haul more weight. We dont know what the dump truck is. Could be a international or F550-750

BLC1
10-08-2010, 07:20 PM
It would be a one ton dump. I didn't think about the low sides for loading. That does make a good point.

I have seen a couple people who have ramps so they can pull their skid steer right up in the trailer as well.

Marek
10-08-2010, 08:46 PM
A dump trailer will weigh in at 4k and to stay under the 10 k CDL number that will give you 3 ton of legal capacity. Once you get into a trailer over 10k you must have a class A cdl . A f450 with a landscape dump will weigh between 10 and 11k and a GVW of 16k gives you 2.5 - 3 ton. A 550 will weigh about the same and gives you up to 3500 #s more capacity but if you register it at 19.500 you cant leagally tow a 7k trailer with out going over the magical 26k Which throws you into the CDL range again. A 450-550 truck is nice but they are expensive to run.

4 seasons lawn&land
10-08-2010, 10:46 PM
The 10k CDL myth pops up once again. YOu can tow as much as you want. Your GC needs to stay under 26k.

Marek
10-08-2010, 11:13 PM
not in Maryland !

Evan528
10-08-2010, 11:43 PM
or in PA..... any trailer ober 10K requires a CDL. This has been confirmed by a DOT officer I spoke with.

4 seasons lawn&land
10-09-2010, 10:06 AM
DOT officers love to give BS tickets so Id ask someone with less of a conflict of interest.

I looked up both. Your laws are both the same and this is it.

A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.

They are telling you the law but theyre leaving the last part out. You can tow a trailer that weighs 25,900 pounds if you tow it with a bicycle. More realistically, you can tow a 14,000 lb equipment trailer with a 3/4 ton pick-up.

Duffster
10-09-2010, 10:41 AM
trailers wont haul more weight. We dont know what the dump truck is. Could be a international or F550-750

And like wise you don't know what the trailer is.

Doesn't matter what size truck you are talking about.

Any truck can handle more weight on the trailer and tow it than to have it on it's back(frame).

Duffster
10-09-2010, 10:43 AM
not in Maryland !

or in PA..... any trailer ober 10K requires a CDL. This has been confirmed by a DOT officer I spoke with.

This is not the case in Maryland or PA.

I suggest you guys look up the laws yourselves instead of trusting Barney Fife.

Duffster
10-09-2010, 10:46 AM
A 550 will weigh about the same and gives you up to 3500 #s more capacity but if you register it at 19.500 you cant leagally tow a 7k trailer with out going over the magical 26k Which throws you into the CDL range again. A 450-550 truck is nice but they are expensive to run.

With a F550 you can still tow 10k without needing a CDL.

4 seasons lawn&land
10-09-2010, 10:57 AM
This is not the case in Maryland or PA.

I suggest you guys look up the laws yourselves instead of trusting Barney Fife.

Thank you...

Marek
10-10-2010, 01:34 AM
Glad you guys from the midwest and NY know Marylands laws so well.Open up the cover to the "Maryland Commercial Drivers License Manual " and on the first page it says a class C license: Authorizes the licensee to operate any single vehichle les that 26001 pounds GVWR or any such vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class B License : Authorizes the licensee to operate any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds; any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Marek
10-10-2010, 01:36 AM
With a F550 you can still tow 10k without needing a CDL.

Show me how you can leagally do this in MD . Only way to do so is to register the 550 at 16k.

PerfectEarth
10-10-2010, 10:03 AM
4 Seasons is correct. This is a constant topic that probably takes up half of my post-count.

I have an f-550 dump at 19,000# GWVR.
I also have a 12,000# GVRW Bri-Mar dump trailer. I use them together. I had to get my Class A CDL to do so.

BECAUSE the TRAILER is over 10,000.... IF my trailer was an even 10,000#, I would not need the CDL....TRUE, I would be over the 26,000 COMBINED limit (I'd be at 29,000# GCWR)- BUT the trailer would not be over 10,000

Read this- this is straight from the FMCSA website, under federal CDL standards. --->

Drivers have been required to have a CDL in order to drive certain CMVs since April 1, 1992.

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) has developed and issued standards for the testing and licensing of CDL holders. These standards require States to issue CDLs to certain CMV drivers only after the driver passes knowledge and skills tests, administered by the State and related to the type of vehicle the driver expects to operate. Drivers are required to obtain and hold a CDL if they operate in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce if they drive a vehicle that meets any of the classifications of a CMV described below.

Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

The key word here is PROVIDED.

Duffster
10-10-2010, 10:14 AM
For starters do you realize that MD has the same requirements as the Feds?

and on the first page it says a class C license: Authorizes the licensee to operate any single vehichle les that 26001 pounds GVWR or any such vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

That isn't what it really says now is it?

IIRC it says something like this.

any single vehichle less that 26001 pounds GVWR or any such vehicle Towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR

So if the truck is under 26k or under and the trailer is 10k or under you only need a class C.

It also says something about a CGVWR of less than 26k but your MVA website is down so I can't look it up at this time.

Show me how you can leagally do this in MD . Only way to do so is to register the 550 at 16k.

That wouldn't be the case anyway since it is based off GVWR.

Why don't you show us where it says you need a CLass A for a trailer over 10k?

Marek
10-10-2010, 10:23 AM
MARYLAND COMMERCIAL DRIVER LICENSE CLASSES
Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, for the
commercial motor vehicle for which he/she desires a commercial driverís license.
Class A license: Authorizes the licensee to operate Tractor/Trailer or Combinations of vehicles
with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds if the GVWR of the vehicle being towed is in
excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B License: Authorizes the licensee to operate any single vehicle with a GVWR of
26,001 or more pounds; Any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds
GVWR.
Class C License: Authorizes the licensee to operate any single vehicle less that 26,001
pounds GVWR; or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR,
and is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the
transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purpose of the Hazardous Materials
Transportation Act and which requires the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous
Materials Regulations.

http://www.calleva.org/pdf/CDL_Handbook.pdf

Duffster
10-10-2010, 10:42 AM
MARYLAND COMMERCIAL DRIVER LICENSE CLASSES
Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, for the
commercial motor vehicle for which he/she desires a commercial driverís license.
Class A license: Authorizes the licensee to operate Tractor/Trailer or Combinations of vehicles
with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds if the GVWR of the vehicle being towed is in
excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B License: Authorizes the licensee to operate any single vehicle with a GVWR of
26,001 or more pounds; Any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds
GVWR.
Class C License: Authorizes the licensee to operate any single vehicle less that 26,001
pounds GVWR; or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR,
and is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the
transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purpose of the Hazardous Materials
Transportation Act and which requires the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous
Materials Regulations.

http://www.calleva.org/pdf/CDL_Handbook.pdf

Where is the description of the vehicle group for your regular DL?

4 seasons lawn&land
10-10-2010, 01:10 PM
[QUOTE=Duffster;3750451]For starters do you realize that MD has the same requirements as the Feds?



That isn't what it really says now is it?

IIRC it says something like this.



QUOTE]



Isnt it unbelievable that some people will reword the law just to be right on lawn site?:laugh:

Duffster
10-10-2010, 08:06 PM
Isnt it unbelievable that some people will reword the law just to be right on lawn site?:laugh:

I am not surprised by anything on this site.

Marek
10-10-2010, 08:57 PM
You should take a few min. to look it up yourself . I am sure not impressed by a couple kids with a mower or two !

Duffster
10-10-2010, 09:09 PM
You should take a few min. to look it up yourself . I am sure not impressed by a couple kids with a mower or two !

Yet you still fail to show anything that proves your point and even post something that contradicts yourself.

I suggest some reading classes, perhaps hooked on phonics.

4 seasons lawn&land
10-10-2010, 09:56 PM
You should take a few min. to look it up yourself . I am sure not impressed by a couple kids with a mower or two !



All right dude. I did all or your damn homework for you and when you read it you are driving to New York to kneel down and KISS MY WHITE ASS!!! Here you go!

READ SECTION 1-1 BELOW

http://www.mva.maryland.gov/Resources/DL-151A.pdf

AND READ QUESTION 6 HERE FOR LAMEN INTERPRETATION

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.5&guidence=Y

NOW PUCKER UP BICH

93Chevy
10-10-2010, 10:14 PM
or in PA..... any trailer ober 10K requires a CDL. This has been confirmed by a DOT officer I spoke with.

What are you talking about? That's not true at all.

Anyway, back on topic...

I don't have anything to add.

Thank you.

Duffster
10-10-2010, 10:17 PM
Anyway, back on topic....

What was the topic again?:laugh:

93Chevy
10-10-2010, 10:20 PM
What was the topic again?:laugh:

An International S1900 can haul more than a 10k gvw dump trailer.

BLC1
10-11-2010, 08:40 AM
So how about that dump vs dump trailer

Duffster
10-11-2010, 06:28 PM
So how about that dump vs dump trailer

Just depends on what you plan to use it for.

BLC1
10-11-2010, 09:49 PM
Well my situation is this. I need to get another truck that is 4x4 to put a plow on. I was thinking a 1 ton dump would solve that problem and give me some other options for hauling.

I don't do a lot of hauling. Occasionally I need a few yards of soil. Maybe a little stone or firewood here and there.

I was having a hard time coming up with anything so I thought another f250 would be fine if I got a dump trailer. It would be nice to have a dump trailer I could get my skid steer with a rock hound on as well. I could sell one of my trailers to help pay for everything.

Duffster
10-11-2010, 11:03 PM
Well my situation is this. I need to get another truck that is 4x4 to put a plow on. I was thinking a 1 ton dump would solve that problem and give me some other options for hauling.

I don't do a lot of hauling. Occasionally I need a few yards of soil. Maybe a little stone or firewood here and there.

I was having a hard time coming up with anything so I thought another f250 would be fine if I got a dump trailer. It would be nice to have a dump trailer I could get my skid steer with a rock hound on as well. I could sell one of my trailers to help pay for everything.

I would go with the dump trailer then.

Couple reasons,

1. I hate plowing with a dump truck.

2. Higher payload. It should be able to have net load of about 10k.

3. The one ton(10k+GVWR) is a CMV all the time and the two fiddy would only be a CMV when towing the trailer.

CLARK LAWN
10-12-2010, 12:08 AM
downside is it you need equipment and material on a job you will have to make two trips. i really dont see the point in small (under 40k-50k). i see people do it here with a leaf box on the trailer and they have another truck and trailer for the equipment.

BLC1
10-12-2010, 10:52 PM
I was wondering how much more difficult it would be to plow with a dump. Obviously large lots would be fine but the lack of visibilty would drive me nuts.

Does anybody here have a dump trailer and wish they would have gone with the truck or vise versa?

bmoorefield
10-12-2010, 11:26 PM
Wow, settle down kids. In Maryland I have a class C license (standard) but you need commercial insurance and DOT #. I have a 14' dump trailer and it works great for many needs. Hauling mulch, top soil, rocks, skid steer, mini x, and I am currently getting ready for leaf removal season with a tailgate mounted debris loader, its great to be able to flip a switch to unload. I do admit that a dump truck would be more nimble in some situations but I manage just fine with the trailer. When I am towing the dump trailer with my 2002 Chevy 2500 HD (6.0L gas) I am averaging 8 mpg. Hope this helps, either way it will be great improvement to your buisness.

BLC1
10-12-2010, 11:52 PM
How long of a trailer do you need for a skid steer with rock hound on it?

CLARK LAWN
10-13-2010, 07:19 AM
Wow, settle down kids. In Maryland I have a class C license (standard) but you need commercial insurance and DOT #. I have a 14' dump trailer and it works great for many needs. Hauling mulch, top soil, rocks, skid steer, mini x, and I am currently getting ready for leaf removal season with a tailgate mounted debris loader, its great to be able to flip a switch to unload. I do admit that a dump truck would be more nimble in some situations but I manage just fine with the trailer. When I am towing the dump trailer with my 2002 Chevy 2500 HD (6.0L gas) I am averaging 8 mpg. Hope this helps, either way it will be great improvement to your buisness.

so do you use two trucks then? one for trailer and one for equipment.

bmoorefield
10-13-2010, 09:49 PM
Depending on the job, but I put most of my equipment in the bed of truck. If I am using large equipment and need materials such as top soil or stone, I will drop off the equipment and then go pick up the material needed. Most of my jobs are with in a 30 minute round trip to a supply yard.

Rock Hound and skid steer fits in a 14' dump. I almost purchased a smaller trailer but I am glad I didnt.

BLC1
10-13-2010, 10:53 PM
Perfect. That may free me up to sell my large trailer then. If I could use the dump to haul the skid steer that would take care of both.

Where is a good place to look for used dump trailers. Craigslist hasn't had much to look at.

hosejockey2002
10-14-2010, 02:12 AM
You guys crack me up with your CDL requirement interpretations. It may vary from state to state, but around here if you're driving a pickup the commercial vehicle enforcement guys don't care about you and how much weight youre towing unless you're hotshotting cars from state to state.

Marek
10-15-2010, 06:04 PM
Yet you still fail to show anything that proves your point and even post something that contradicts yourself.

I suggest some reading classes, perhaps hooked on phonics.

http://www.mva.maryland.gov/resources/dl-002b.pdf

Look at page 4 under class C it says no trailers over 10k

Duffster
10-15-2010, 06:56 PM
http://www.mva.maryland.gov/resources/dl-002b.pdf

Look at page 4 under class C it says no trailers over 10k

After five days this is all you can come up with?

You will have to point out or copy and paste exactly what you are talking about in that link because all I found was where it said you could drive combination under 26k with any class of license except "M" not that I would put much stock in that because that chart doesn't jive with any of the classes of DL described in the text.

It also says in one line that you can drive a bus under 26,001 with a CDL class C and in another line it says you can't. :dizzy:


You say you need a CDL to tow over 10k so what class of CDL would I need in MD to drive my F350(GVWR 9900) towing a 12k trailer?

Marek
10-15-2010, 07:10 PM
Being a commercial truck would mean you would need a Class A CDL.

Duffster
10-15-2010, 07:26 PM
Being a commercial truck would mean you would need a Class A CDL.

Explain to me how my previous example fits this class A CDL description?

MARYLAND COMMERCIAL DRIVER LICENSE CLASSES
Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, for the commercial motor
vehicle for which he/she desires a commercial driverís license, and obtain the appropriate endorsement(s)
where required.
Class A License: Authorizes the licensee to operate Tractor/Trailer or Combination of vehicles with a GCWR
of 26,001 or more pounds if the GVWR of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

http://www.mva.maryland.gov/Resources/DL-151.pdf

4 seasons lawn&land
10-15-2010, 09:05 PM
Being a commercial truck would mean you would need a Class A CDL.

I already posted 2 (TWO) explainations of your laws that stated clearly what you are lacking after you tried to condemn us lawn mowing children that dont know what were talking about

93Chevy
10-15-2010, 09:13 PM
Oh snap, I guess I've been driving lawn trailers illegally for 3 years.

4 seasons lawn&land
10-15-2010, 09:31 PM
This is the excerpt hes talking about and hes misinterpreting it.

A combination vehicle with a gross combination
weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds, if
the trailer(s) has a GVWR of 10,001 or more
pounds.

This means you can have a GCWR of 36,000 pounds WITHOUT a CDL only if the GVWR of the trailer is 10,000 or less. If its a 12,000 pound trailer then you need to stay under 26k or have a CDL.


Read question and answer number 6

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.5&guidence=Y

Duffster
10-16-2010, 10:11 AM
Explain to me how my previous example fits this class A CDL description?

Come on Marek help us out. Show how my example fits the description of a class A vehicle.:help:

jimmyjack
10-16-2010, 12:26 PM
ok dumb question but do any of u guy arguing about the CDL rules even have a CDL ......:confused:.......

this is funny :clapping:

4 seasons lawn&land
10-16-2010, 02:49 PM
nope! If I had one it wouldnt much matter would it. Id be good to go on anything.

Duffster
10-16-2010, 09:57 PM
ok dumb question but do any of u guy arguing about the CDL rules even have a CDL ......:confused:.......

this is funny :clapping:

That is irrelevant isn't it?

AdvLandscapeLLC
10-30-2010, 02:07 PM
I'm gonna try to speak for the initially asked topic.

I have been running a pickup with a dump trailer for the last 2 years, The first year I purchased a 6x12 bri-mar bumper pull with a 10000# gvwr I purchased the trailer to be able to haul slabwood bundles from the mills to residences for a very good profit. I also have been involved with landscaping the past 8 years and the last 2 years been working more and more with light excavation work via skid steer\ mini ex. I used the 6x12 for a year and found it was just to small for most tasks at hand, It was more profitable to get two slabwood bundles on a longer trailer for deliveries, it was a very tight squeeze with the skid steer and I was constantly running at my max weight for the trailer all the time. I sold the trailer for a profit and purchased a used 16x7 bri-mar 14000# gooseneck dump. This trailer pulls like a charm, is incredibly maneuverable in tight places and hauls everything i need. It will haul the bobcat 335 mini and my thomas t131 skid steer without an issue (separately of course). If you plan on using it for only equipment hauling i feel this may not be your best option and is the problem i am running into now with it. I have to drop the equipment on site and then bring back the materials with the trailer as opposed to having materials in the dump bed on a truck. If you are going to only purchase a small dump trailer, get the dump truck but if you are going to purchase a 14000lb gross trailer etc... then go with the trailer due to qty of material you can deliver.

And in regards to the cdl, I spoke with CT DOT and DMV and was told the following verbatim
"Sir, as long as your truck and trailer combination is under 26001# you do not need a CDL to run your setup, your total gross combined vehicle weight is 25500 lbs. If you get a bigger truck or bigger trailer in terms of weight to increase your total by 501 pounds you will need a Class A CDL."
So i replied
"Ma'am, I understand what you are saying, but have one question now, If I do exceed the 26001 pounds with a new trailer can I take the class A cdl test with my truck and trailer since it would technically be considered a Class A setup on the road. I do understand I would not receive the air brake endorsement."
SILENCE...............CONTINUED SILENCE......
"Sir, I do not have or know that answer, you are going to have to call licensing....."

So i call licensing, and ask them that same question, there response is... Thats a good question we will get back to you..... I gave them my contact info and no response in two months.

Gotta love DMV\DOT

here are some pictures of the two setups.


This is my weight setup
Truck: 2005 dodge ram 3550 QC dually 11500#
Trailer: 16ft gooseneck bri mar dump 14000#

THEENER
11-25-2010, 04:20 PM
Side load side dump truck bed trailer can be used for hauling equipment. Theenerbuilt.com