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Ric
10-09-2010, 02:46 PM
This last week I have been doing some research on Glyphosate for a special use. I wanted a consistant product that didn't vary from batch to batch. What I didn't know was the Generic labeled Glyphosate I been buying, is in fact Roundup Pro formulated and Manufactured by Monsanto. However it is packaged by my supplier from tanker cars. I am paying about $ 14.50 a Gallon. My supplier is in a Buying cartel with other suppliers and must use the Monsanto Generic brands by Mutual buying agreement. BTW Monsanto no longer makes a 41% Glyphosate product and Labels it as Roundup.

My Supplier also said they were losing business to Chinese made Glyphosate selling for $ 12.00 and less per Gallon. They claim and I believe them, Chinese Glyphosate is 41% but it doesn't have the surfactants like sticker and Defoamer. They also said you can test your Generic Glyphosate by simply shaking a ready to use mix and seeing if if Foams up. How does this effect your non-select use of Glyphosate???? If the Chinese stuff isn't working real great. You might want to add some spreader sticker if you have the Chinese stuff, for a better knock down.

BTW My supplier also tells me they sell 10 times the amount of Roundup Quick Pro that they do Regular Glyphosate.

RBatten
10-09-2010, 02:56 PM
I use the quick pro just because its so much easier to deal with. The granular is so easy to deal with. I also add sticker to each batch I mix.

Ric
10-09-2010, 03:26 PM
I use the quick pro just because its so much easier to deal with. The granular is so easy to deal with. I also add sticker to each batch I mix.

RBatten

I like MSO as a sticker because it is a little hot and helps burn the wax on the leaves for better absortion. But for Weeds control in Beds I think Quick Pro is the only way to go. My cost on Quick Pro is about $ 68.00 for a 6.8 pound jug. I can get 70 gallons of HIGH RATE Ready to use quick pro or a Dollar a gallon which sure wouldn't break the bank.


However I am using Glyphosate as a Growth Regulator, which BTW is what it was originally developed for. Therefore quick Pro is not the product for my

Turf Dawg
10-09-2010, 07:01 PM
RBatten


However I am using Glyphosate as a Growth Regulator, which BTW is what it was originally developed for. Therefore quick Pro is not the product for my


I thought Gly was developed for the Cotton crops, I did not know it was for growth regulation. I do like it for Asian Jasimine beds.

RBatten
10-09-2010, 07:08 PM
What do you use it to regulate? Woody Plants and shrubs? I have never tried it for that purpose but do spray it strait into woody plants to kill the wonderful FL vines we have. Air potatoe for one.

RBatten
10-09-2010, 07:10 PM
I thought Gly was developed for the Cotton crops, I did not know it was for growth regulation. I do like it for Asian Jasimine beds.

At what rate do you spray it in jasmine? I have tried it at half strength and it still killed the jasmine.

Ric
10-09-2010, 08:18 PM
RBattan

Google Chemical Mowing or check out a Roundup original Label section 8.


Turf Dawg

Glyphosate was discovered by John Franz (Google Him) who was working on a Growth Regulator and not a select herbicide. Glyphosate is the most financially successful pesticide every made. Because of Glyphosate, genetic strains of many Plants from corn, beans and cotton have been developed as ROUNDUP READY. Sorry I don't have the energy to type the whole Glyphosate story so Google it.

Turf Dawg
10-09-2010, 08:30 PM
At what rate do you spray it in jasmine? I have tried it at half strength and it still killed the jasmine.

I just buy generic gly 41% and mix it at 2oz per gallons and spray the whole beds. I have never tried it on other ground covers like Ivy or Wintercreeper, but I have never had any ill effects on Asian Jasmine

Florida Gardener
10-10-2010, 12:24 AM
Kind of off topic question but what are you guys using to kill Virginia Creeper? I have sprayed some that is relatively small with gly mixed at 2oz./gal and it doesn't even phase it.....

Ric
10-10-2010, 12:15 PM
Kind of off topic question but what are you guys using to kill Virginia Creeper? I have sprayed some that is relatively small with gly mixed at 2oz./gal and it doesn't even phase it.....

Diamond

Apparently your limited License CEU Provider failed to teach you how to read a label. I suggest you study the Glyphosate Label and find the correct rate for killing most weeds. Glyphosate will control Virginia Creeper if applied correctly.

BTW after you start using the correct rate you might want to add either 2,4-D or 3 Way Herbicide to control Roundup Resistant Weeds.

Buck_wheat
10-10-2010, 03:37 PM
Been reading these threads for a while...

Just out of curiosity Ric; is the only way to earn respect in this world by having an applicator license, or are you just climbing out of your own insecurity by crushing the spirit of others?

Seems like a disproportionate number of your threads start off with announcing you are a LICENSED applicator and then degrade any one who isn't.

There is no doubt you know your stuff, but that shouldn't give you LICENSE to degrade others by "just telling it like it is". If I did that here, they'd delete the thread.

In the event, you expect any other posts regarding this, please read below :waving:

Ric
10-10-2010, 04:08 PM
Been reading these threads for a while...

Just out of curiosity Ric; is the only way to earn respect in this world by having an applicator license, or are you just climbing out of your own insecurity by crushing the spirit of others?

Seems like a disproportionate number of your threads start off with announcing you are a LICENSED applicator and then degrade any one who isn't.

There is no doubt you know your stuff, but that shouldn't give you LICENSE to degrade others by "just telling it like it is". If I did that here, they'd delete the thread.

In the event, you expect any other posts regarding this, please read below :waving:


Buck Wheat

I re-read this thread and I can't find where I said I was a CPO in this thread. Maybe your own insecurity came into play and made you Knock me Because you might not be a CPO and can't pass the test. What ever reason I really don't care. I am trying my best to help educate the Unwashed Masses like yourself who have turned to Lawn Care because they can't hold a real job.

BTW If I knocked Diamondlandscaping in your opinion, So be it. From PM's and other communication with him, I know he is applying Illegally.

Have a Nice Day

PS. Please feel free to put me on Ignore.

ted putnam
10-10-2010, 04:31 PM
Last year I applied Glyphosate at a rate of about 7 oz/acre spraying 2 weeks apart for control of Dallisgrass and other grassy weeds. It slowed and slightly discolored the bermuda and I would say I got about 70-75% control of DG. This was done in Oct when the DG was beginning to store sugars and prepare for dormancy. I have not attempted it this year because we have had only about 1/4 inch of precipitation in the last 2 months and many properties I treat are not irrigated.

Florida Gardener
10-10-2010, 06:28 PM
Ric

FYI-I am NOT applying illegally. Not that I have to explain myself to you, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, I contemplated it because I wanted to turn some properties around that need it and the spray company I use does NOT use Celsius. However, after listening to my good conscience, I chose not to apply to THOSE FEW YARDS illegally. In the thread Re:Celsius, I stated that I have been using it at my mom's house as she has a weedy lawn and I am trying to revive it for her. I am not using it ANYWHERE ELSE.

I am licensed for the limited so I am NOT applying Roundup or ornamental pesticides illegally.

fl-landscapes
10-10-2010, 06:52 PM
Last year I applied Glyphosate at a rate of about 7 oz/acre spraying 2 weeks apart for control of Dallisgrass and other grassy weeds. It slowed and slightly discolored the bermuda and I would say I got about 70-75% control of DG. This was done in Oct when the DG was beginning to store sugars and prepare for dormancy. I have not attempted it this year because we have had only about 1/4 inch of precipitation in the last 2 months and many properties I treat are not irrigated.

DG = One giant pain in the arse!! Celsius label says mix with revolver for DG

Ric
10-10-2010, 08:01 PM
Ric

FYI-I am NOT applying illegally. Not that I have to explain myself to you, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, I contemplated it because I wanted to turn some properties around that need it and the spray company I use does NOT use Celsius. However, after listening to my good conscience, I chose not to apply to THOSE FEW YARDS illegally. In the thread Re:Celsius, I stated that I have been using it at my mom's house as she has a weedy lawn and I am trying to revive it for her. I am not using it ANYWHERE ELSE.

I am licensed for the limited so I am NOT applying Roundup or ornamental pesticides illegally.

Diamond

Check your PM box for several PM send the first two weeks of June this year. I can C&P them here.

If I agreed you weren't applying illegally then we both would be lying.

lilmarvin4064
10-10-2010, 08:35 PM
Ric, what do you think about the potassium salt of glyphosate vs. the isopropylamine salt, if you've tried the former? I'd like to try it, but I still have a large supply of Razorburn I got at a discount.

Florida Gardener
10-10-2010, 08:46 PM
Ric

Are you mentally challenged or just so self-rightous you don't listen to what anyone says?

Yes, I still have those PM's that you and I sent back and forth to each other. Yes, I contemplated ILLEGALLY applying Celsius to a few of my customer's properties. Yes, I wanted to do it. HAVE I? NO, I HAVEN'T. But apparently you have seen me do it and are a psychic. The only place I have applied is at my mom's house. That is all. If you want to go ahead and call me names again like a 10 year old, go ahead.

Also, why does someone who does "lawn care" have a menial job in your opinion. I mean, are you better than all of us "lawn care professionals?" Apparently you are. Well, sorry to break the news to you, but the only reason you make what you do is because the chemical industry in Florida is heavily regulated. You like to come on these forums and people's posts and subtly belittle them. For example, your second to last post to me. "Apparently your limited License CEU Provider failed to teach you how to read a label." Why can't you just say something like-Diamond, just recheck the gly label and find out what rate will control most weeds, or something to that effect. No, what you do is act like an A-hole because you know everything and anyone who doesn't hold a CPO license is beneath you. You say you are trying to educate people on this board? You do more bashing than helping. You have a very condecending attitude. Do you know what you are talking about? Sure you do. You have been in this business for a long time and have done a lot in it, there is no questioning that. I just don't really agree that you are "helping people."

Ric
10-10-2010, 09:29 PM
Ric, what do you think about the potassium salt of glyphosate vs. the isopropylamine salt, if you've tried the former? I'd like to try it, but I still have a large supply of Razorburn I got at a discount.

Lilmarvin

I perfer the potassium salt of glyphosate for better knock down. I find the isopropylamine salt of Razor burn doesn't work as good as Quick Pro. However isopropylamine salt is used in more types of herbicides than Potassium Salt

Ric
10-10-2010, 09:53 PM
Ric

Are you mentally challenged or just so self-rightous you don't listen to what anyone says?

Yes, I still have those PM's that you and I sent back and forth to each other. Yes, I contemplated ILLEGALLY applying Celsius to a few of my customer's properties. Yes, I wanted to do it. HAVE I? NO, I HAVEN'T. But apparently you have seen me do it and are a psychic. The only place I have applied is at my mom's house. That is all. If you want to go ahead and call me names again like a 10 year old, go ahead.

Also, why does someone who does "lawn care" have a menial job in your opinion. I mean, are you better than all of us "lawn care professionals?" Apparently you are. Well, sorry to break the news to you, but the only reason you make what you do is because the chemical industry in Florida is heavily regulated. You like to come on these forums and people's posts and subtly belittle them. For example, your second to last post to me. "Apparently your limited License CEU Provider failed to teach you how to read a label." Why can't you just say something like-Diamond, just recheck the gly label and find out what rate will control most weeds, or something to that effect. No, what you do is act like an A-hole because you know everything and anyone who doesn't hold a CPO license is beneath you. You say you are trying to educate people on this board? You do more bashing than helping. You have a very condecending attitude. Do you know what you are talking about? Sure you do. You have been in this business for a long time and have done a lot in it, there is no questioning that. I just don't really agree that you are "helping people."


Diamond

Here is a Cut & Paste of your PM to me. It doesn't take a Aeronautical Engineer to know it is BS and you are doing illegal Applications. No CPO in his right mind is going to allow you to apply under his license with out Training. FYI He is responsible for your mistakes and could have to pay all damages. His Insurance company would pay and cancel him. At the same time they would Black Ball him with all other insurance companies.

You complain that I call people a yard boy in the same post where you act like a Foolish Yard Boy. Hello People reading here including myself might of been born at night, But it wasn't last night.

Originally Posted by diamondlandscaping
Ric

Thanks for the info.

I have a company who has the L&O license that will let me work under them. The only downside is is I won't get much training. I don't want to do things the wrong way, but it doesn't appear to be rocket science either.

I believe there is a CPO that has a training center around me. It seems that it would be in my best interest to do that until I feel comfortable doing it on my own. I actually have 2 companies who are willing to help me out. One won't give me much training, and the other I have to call them back.


Originally Posted by diamondlandscaping

Ric

The law in Florida(as you know) is I have to be an employee under their company so they would in fact have to pay me for this to be legit. The one company who will help me mainly does interior pest control but has the L&O license. I would get paid to work for their company.

The other guy will obviously be doing the same but I may be able to get training from them. Neither said they want money. I would gladly let them give me a paycheck, cash it, and give them the money back if I could get paid for doing my customers yards.

Florida Gardener
10-10-2010, 10:01 PM
Ric

You act like I am trying to hide something. Yes, AT THAT TIME, that is what I was considering doing. SINCE THEN, I HAVE WENT AGAINST THAT. I am writing in capitals because for some reason you just don't want to listen to me and maybe if you can see the larger words, it will get through your thick skull.

How do you know that I am applying illegally? How do you know I am applying at all? You don't. Please stop acting like you know what I am doing b/c you don't.

You call anyone who doesn't own a CPO license a yard boy. I know a few companies around here that are making 2-3 times what you used in your example in another recent post who don't have a CPO license. Do you think owning a CPO license makes you some kind of genius? All it means is that you qualified to take an exam and passed it. If this state wasn't as regulated as others, chemicals would be flooded like "landscapers."

I am not going to respond any further as you are always right and no matter what anyone says, that is just the way it is.

ted putnam
10-10-2010, 11:15 PM
DG = One giant pain in the arse!! Celsius label says mix with revolver for DG

Yes, I haven't tried this yet. Supposedly comparable results to series of MSMA treatments. We'll soon find out I guess...

Buck_wheat
10-12-2010, 07:15 AM
Buck Wheat

I re-read this thread and I can't find where I said I was a CPO in this thread. Maybe your own insecurity came into play and made you Knock me Because you might not be a CPO and can't pass the test. What ever reason I really don't care. I am trying my best to help educate the Unwashed Masses like yourself who have turned to Lawn Care because they can't hold a real job.

BTW If I knocked Diamondlandscaping in your opinion, So be it. From PM's and other communication with him, I know he is applying Illegally.

Have a Nice Day

PS. Please feel free to put me on Ignore.

This derogatory outburst and all your posts that follow prove my point.

I hope you find Jesus, because with that kind of a disposition, He may be the only capable of loving you.

Buck_wheat
10-12-2010, 07:35 AM
Kind of off topic question but what are you guys using to kill Virginia Creeper? I have sprayed some that is relatively small with gly mixed at 2oz./gal and it doesn't even phase it.....

Make sure the Ivy is clear of desirable plants... trim them back if you have too. Apply Triclopyr triethylamine salt (according to the label... limited application permit OK as long as you are using a back pack sprayer and not putting it on the turf) to the ivy... if you can, get the woody ground trailers as well. you may have to go back a couple of times, mixing it Glyco is OK. Using LI700helps or some other surfucant.

Had to cut a 10' Fichus down to 5' because of all the friggin ivy, pulled crap loads out of what was left without severing the vine and brought it down to the Dirt where I sprayed it. Made a second application 2 week ago & looks like the 1st app got about 80% Will keep my eye out for new growth & hit that immediatly.

BTW on 10/26 PB Extension is offering a "Best Management Practices Course in fertilizer application. You can earn a completion certificate. The industry is moving to allow limited license LCO's to apply fertilizer to turf grasses. That's why Ric's butt is all in a knot about his precious license, he's trying to protect his "turf" :laugh:

You, me and the rest of the professional LCO's know that the majority of the licensed applicators are just a bunch of hacks or desk jockeys, just like the LCO's it's an 80-20 rule.

cgaengineer
10-12-2010, 07:44 AM
Diamond

Here is a Cut & Paste of your PM to me. It doesn't take a Aeronautical Engineer to know it is BS and you are doing illegal Applications. No CPO in his right mind is going to allow you to apply under his license with out Training. FYI He is responsible for your mistakes and could have to pay all damages. His Insurance company would pay and cancel him. At the same time they would Black Ball him with all other insurance companies.

You complain that I call people a yard boy in the same post where you act like a Foolish Yard Boy. Hello People reading here including myself might of been born at night, But it wasn't last night.

Sorry Ric, I just don't see anything in his replies that say he is applying illegally.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ric
10-12-2010, 12:04 PM
Make sure the Ivy is clear of desirable plants... trim them back if you have too. Apply Triclopyr triethylamine salt (according to the label... limited application permit OK as long as you are using a back pack sprayer and not putting it on the turf) to the ivy... if you can, get the woody ground trailers as well. you may have to go back a couple of times, mixing it Glyco is OK. Using LI700helps or some other surfucant.

Had to cut a 10' Fichus down to 5' because of all the friggin ivy, pulled crap loads out of what was left without severing the vine and brought it down to the Dirt where I sprayed it. Made a second application 2 week ago & looks like the 1st app got about 80% Will keep my eye out for new growth & hit that immediatly.

BTW on 10/26 PB Extension is offering a "Best Management Practices Course in fertilizer application. You can earn a completion certificate. The industry is moving to allow limited license LCO's to apply fertilizer to turf grasses. That's why Ric's butt is all in a knot about his precious license, he's trying to protect his "turf" :laugh:

You, me and the rest of the professional LCO's know that the majority of the licensed applicators are just a bunch of hacks or desk jockeys, just like the LCO's it's an 80-20 rule.


Turf Dawg

I think I see your problem. You have no idea how the system works and blame me for your ignorance. Sorry to tell you but LCO could always apply fertilizer legally here in Florida. It has only been in the last two years that the state is offering a Certification that shows you have sat in a class to learn the Fertilizer Law but not any thing about Fertilizer. I had to sit in the same boring class also. State law will require the BMP cert starting Jan 1 2014 but some local counties are requiring it now.

Presently Fertilizer Ordinances are local county ordinance that vary greatly County to County. Legislation before the State will hope pass and make the Fertilizer Ordinance a state wide ordinance killing the local one.

Turf Dawg
10-12-2010, 01:45 PM
Hey Ric,
I think you have confused me for someone else.

Ric
10-12-2010, 01:56 PM
Hey Ric,
I think you have confused me for someone else.

Turf Dawg

MY BAD!! I meant to say Buck Wheat who I quoted. It is Old Age as I am about to turn 70 years old a week from today. My mind just isn't what it once was.

nik
10-12-2010, 06:31 PM
For those of you who do not know. How do you tell if your generic glyphosate is Roundup? Just check the ole EPA Reg #. It will have three numbers and two dashes, not just two.

For example Roundup Original is 524-445.
Buccaneer is 524-445-55467.
Cornerstone is 524-445-1381.
Mirage is 524-445-34704.
Rattler is 524-445-5905.
SUPERSATE is 524-445-34704

As the Ric's original post alluded to before it went south in a hurry, all these products are the same exact stuff as Roundup Original. The labels on differ by color and name of product and company. The instructions are identical.

So in those cases you are not getting generic, you are getting the same stuff. Those other companies just pay Monsanto a ton of cash to call it their own stuff. A generic will have a completely different number.

RBatten
10-12-2010, 08:05 PM
For those of you who do not know. How do you tell if your generic glyphosate is Roundup? Just check the ole EPA Reg #. It will have three numbers and two dashes, not just two.

For example Roundup Original is 524-445.
Buccaneer is 524-445-55467.
Cornerstone is 524-445-1381.
Mirage is 524-445-34704.
Rattler is 524-445-5905.
SUPERSATE is 524-445-34704

As the Ric's original post alluded to before it went south in a hurry, all these products are the same exact stuff as Roundup Original. The labels on differ by color and name of product and company. The instructions are identical.

So in those cases you are not getting generic, you are getting the same stuff. Those other companies just pay Monsanto a ton of cash to call it their own stuff. A generic will have a completely different number.

Nik,

Thanks for taking a thread that was headed nowhere and dropping just a little bit of useful info. That just shows everyone that in these boards and most, if not all, others you have to sort out the "CRAP" to find something useful.

Thanks for sharing!*trucewhiteflag*

mdvaden
12-29-2010, 10:30 PM
This last week I have been doing some research on Glyphosate for a special use. I wanted a consistant product that didn't vary from batch to batch. What I didn't know was the Generic labeled Glyphosate I been buying, is in fact Roundup Pro formulated and Manufactured by Monsanto. ...

In my research, I also look for almost anything else possible, whether it be names, hazards or restrictions.

About 3 years ago, I came across something really crazy. Have you ever read that if you drink 3/4 of Glyphosate, it can kill you.

LOL

**********

LINK - Drinking 3/4 cup Glyphosate can Kill You ?? (http://www.mdvaden.com/roundup_glyphosate.shtml)

**********

It sounded so rediculous, that I wrote a whole page to retort using such an extreme example.

Neal Wolbert
12-30-2010, 02:22 AM
For what it's worth, after experiencing poor control with Quick Pro with surfactant and consulting with Monsanto, we discovered adding surfactant to Quick Pro actually reduced the effectiveness because the foliage was "burned" by the diquat, the "quick" in Quick Pro, and hindered the gly translocation to the roots. We use Quick Pro alone now, as the label recommends, and get much better control. We prefer Roundup Pro with a non ionic surfactant for more complete control, albeit slower. In climes where moss is a problem in beds, Quick Pro will burn it down, where the Pro product seems to stimulate it to grow.

Neal

greendoctor
12-30-2010, 05:06 AM
For what it's worth, after experiencing poor control with Quick Pro with surfactant and consulting with Monsanto, we discovered adding surfactant to Quick Pro actually reduced the effectiveness because the foliage was "burned" by the diquat, the "quick" in Quick Pro, and hindered the gly translocation to the roots. We use Quick Pro alone now, as the label recommends, and get much better control. We prefer Roundup Pro with a non ionic surfactant for more complete control, albeit slower. In climes where moss is a problem in beds, Quick Pro will burn it down, where the Pro product seems to stimulate it to grow.

Neal

There are certain types of green vegetation that are not affected by glyphosate. Moss and algae are examples of this. There are also some ferns that will not be affected by glyphosate either. I find that diquat, the extra ingredient that makes QuickPro fast an effective burn down for green vegetation that is not affected by glyphosate. It is very possible for moss to utilize glyphosate as a nutrient.