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xtremelawn
10-12-2010, 08:11 AM
I have always heard not to use 2 4 D on St Augistine lawns unless they are dormant. My Lesco Rep said it is OK as long as it is now actively growing.
night time temps low 50's day temps low to mid 80's. What do you guys think?

Thanks

txgrassguy
10-12-2010, 10:04 AM
Your Lesco rep is full of crap. 2,4-D will cause all sorts of damage to the stolons and crowns on St. Augustine despite thinking the turf is in dormancy. Especially now as there has not been sufficiently cold enough soil temperatures to cause dormancy in the turf.
If you are absolutely dead set on using 2,4-D you must get down on your hands and knees and check the stolons and crowns for any green tissue indicating photosynthesis is still occurring - which it still will be at this time of year.
Also measure the soil temp with a decent soil thermometer and don't apply unless you have sustained temps in the low 70's and even then expect off-target effects such as delaying emergence from dormancy, significant girdling of stolons and off-color crowns.
I use 2,4-D to control St. Augustine spreading into neighboring turf sites of a different species and if you have MSMA on hand, both of these herbicides tank mixed and agitated well knocks out St. Augustine very effectively.

RAlmaroad
10-12-2010, 10:50 AM
Xtream: What are you trying to control? Atrazine--0-0-7 will get a lot of the winter weeds coming on. And it is safe for St. Augustine plus give you a little benefit of potassium for root growth. If you're able to spray the lawn then Atrazine at the 1oz/K and "Gallery" in your mix will do wonders for protecting against those winter weeds while getting rid of existing ones.

Ric
10-12-2010, 11:36 AM
Your Lesco rep is full of crap. 2,4-D will cause all sorts of damage to the stolons and crowns on St. Augustine despite thinking the turf is in dormancy. Especially now as there has not been sufficiently cold enough soil temperatures to cause dormancy in the turf.
If you are absolutely dead set on using 2,4-D you must get down on your hands and knees and check the stolons and crowns for any green tissue indicating photosynthesis is still occurring - which it still will be at this time of year.
Also measure the soil temp with a decent soil thermometer and don't apply unless you have sustained temps in the low 70's and even then expect off-target effects such as delaying emergence from dormancy, significant girdling of stolons and off-color crowns.
I use 2,4-D to control St. Augustine spreading into neighboring turf sites of a different species and if you have MSMA on hand, both of these herbicides tank mixed and agitated well knocks out St. Augustine very effectively.


Steve

I respectfully disagree with you about St Augustine and 2,4-D. While I have never used 4 or 6 pound 2,4-D on St Augustine I have used a lot of Lesco 3 Way which has 2,4-D in it. Label says to use 3/4 oz per thousand and I go 1/2 oz per thousand getting the desired response just a little slower. I am careful not to use 3 Way when it is Extremely Hot.

txgrassguy
10-12-2010, 05:51 PM
Heck Ric, you can disagree with me anytime you want - maybe what I have seen is the result of crap applicators and uncalibrated equipment.
I haven't tried applying at less than full label rate myself but then again I'm trying to nuke the St. Augustine, not save it. .
I still think the JDL/Lesco reps are full of crap though - if they knew what they were doing they'd actually be doing it. I have yet to meet one with an applicators license, nor an irrigation license too come to mention it.

Ric
10-12-2010, 09:33 PM
Heck Ric, you can disagree with me anytime you want - maybe what I have seen is the result of crap applicators and uncalibrated equipment.
I haven't tried applying at less than full label rate myself but then again I'm trying to nuke the St. Augustine, not save it. .
I still think the JDL/Lesco reps are full of crap though - if they knew what they were doing they'd actually be doing it. I have yet to meet one with an applicators license, nor an irrigation license too come to mention it.

Steve

As Larry Stone used to say, Lesco counter clerks were failed yard boys. I have to agree for the most part. However my present Lesco people aren't that bad. One is a former Golf Course guy who is a Grand father now and the The Store Manager is a nice kid that isn't bad at all. Actually over the Years I have had a few good Lesco people. But I have had my share of Failed Yard Boys.

LawnoftheMonth
10-12-2010, 10:04 PM
During cooler months, I use Trimec Southern all day long on St.Augustine. Read the label, as long as it's below 80 degrees- it's fine for spot treating, I don't do blanket applications, though, unless it is really cold. I'm using celsius now anyways, until it's too cold for it to work and the crabgrass is gone.

YMMV.

LawnoftheMonth
10-12-2010, 10:16 PM
Since this is a St. Augustine thread-

Anyone have any experience with Certainty in St.Aug? My supplier (Estes) wants me to start using it, I haven't priced it yet, I've only read the label that they gave me..sounds pretty effective.

Ric
10-12-2010, 10:40 PM
Since this is a St. Augustine thread-

Anyone have any experience with Certainty in St.Aug? My supplier (Estes) wants me to start using it, I haven't priced it yet, I've only read the label that they gave me..sounds pretty effective.

Lawn

I use Certainty on St Augustine with no problems. I tried a couple bottles Dismiss and found it not to work Too good in cooler weather.

The big trick with Certainty is to use 2 or more gallons per thousand Sq Ft

ted putnam
10-13-2010, 12:50 AM
Steve

I respectfully disagree with you about St Augustine and 2,4-D. While I have never used 4 or 6 pound 2,4-D on St Augustine I have used a lot of Lesco 3 Way which has 2,4-D in it. Label says to use 3/4 oz per thousand and I go 1/2 oz per thousand getting the desired response just a little slower. I am careful not to use 3 Way when it is Extremely Hot.

Being in a market that is a major transitional area has required me to adapt and overcome through the years. I have a few lawns that have as many as 3 grass types in them(usually Zoysia, St. Aug and Bermuda). I cannot spray multiple mixes on the same lawn due to tank space and time issues. To overcome this, I will try to route lawns that I know have St. Aug in them first in my lineup for the day. I spray these with a half rate of 3-way. Once these are completed, I add 3-way to the remaining tank mix to make it full strength and finish my route of Zoysias and Bermudas. I get great weed control with no damage whatsoever to the St. Aug. I have stolen many of these lawns from competitors due to weeds and the competitors inability to get rid of them(probably from fear of causing damage) In some cases, if I know there is only a small patch of St. Aug here or there in a lawn, I will use half trigger with full strength mix to accomplish similar results. These techniques have worked for me and have saved me major headaches and given excellent weed control making customers happy.

greendoctor
10-13-2010, 02:14 AM
Since this is a St. Augustine thread-

Anyone have any experience with Certainty in St.Aug? My supplier (Estes) wants me to start using it, I haven't priced it yet, I've only read the label that they gave me..sounds pretty effective.

Certainty is my other go to product for st augustine. 2 gallons per 1000 through fan nozzles operated at 40 PSI. An MSO additive is what I use. Quicksilver at 1 oz per acre is another good addition. There have been a number of weedy st augustine lawns that I have cleaned up with Certainty, metsulfuron and Quicksilver. Even in daytime temperatures over 80.