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Stihl036pro
10-27-2010, 02:24 PM
What makes a partnership successful? and why do most partnerships fail? Does anyone out there care to comment. Thank you in advance.

JB1
10-27-2010, 03:40 PM
What makes a partnership successful? and why do most partnerships fail? Does anyone out there care to comment. Thank you in advance.



same thing as a marriage.

punt66
10-27-2010, 03:40 PM
Dont do it. One will always work harder then the other. The only partnerships i have seen make it is because one partner owns more then 50%. Say 60 - 40. Then he has more say on which direction things go.

White Gardens
10-27-2010, 03:45 PM
What makes a partnership successful? and why do most partnerships fail? Does anyone out there care to comment. Thank you in advance.

Don't do it and you'll be successful.

Fvstringpicker
10-27-2010, 07:50 PM
The only partnerships i have seen make it is because one partner owns more then 50%. Say 60 - 40. Then he has more say on which direction things go.

Actually that's not true, unless its in a partnership agreement.

Cajun Cleanin'
10-27-2010, 08:04 PM
The death of one of the partners.

Stihl036pro
10-27-2010, 10:14 PM
I know its a hard topic to discuss with out the facts and plan in front of you. There has to be some LCO's that are successful with partnerships. I am talking about big companies of 1 million dollars or more. Is there anyone in a partnership with revenue exceeding one million. Any Lco at that level thinks differently than the smaller LCO Companies. Thanks

punt66
10-28-2010, 07:36 AM
I know its a hard topic to discuss with out the facts and plan in front of you. There has to be some LCO's that are successful with partnerships. I am talking about big companies of 1 million dollars or more. Is there anyone in a partnership with revenue exceeding one million. Any Lco at that level thinks differently than the smaller LCO Companies. Thanks

find one and prove us wrong. There is a reason companies have 1 ceo.

wbw
10-28-2010, 07:44 AM
What makes a partnership successful? and why do most partnerships fail? Does anyone out there care to comment. Thank you in advance.

Partnerships are successful when the partners have complimentary skills that are appreciated by each other and both are devoted to the business.

These otherwise successful partnerships fail when, after getting beyond the start-up phase and into the success phase of their business, the partners realize that they could hire someone to do what their partner does for much less expense than their partner cost.

They also fail due to the clashing of egos.

AI Inc
10-28-2010, 07:48 AM
I had a partner for my first 12 yrs. Worked well as I was in charge of residental service and installs and he worked the commercial end.

Lawn-Scapes
10-28-2010, 08:19 AM
I had a partner for my first 12 yrs. Worked well as I was in charge of residental service and installs and he worked the commercial end.

and then....... ?

AI Inc
10-28-2010, 08:23 AM
Economy sloed down and by the time we split profits it was about equal to a paycheck, so I bought him out.

White Gardens
10-28-2010, 09:33 AM
I know its a hard topic to discuss with out the facts and plan in front of you. There has to be some LCO's that are successful with partnerships. I am talking about big companies of 1 million dollars or more. Is there anyone in a partnership with revenue exceeding one million. Any Lco at that level thinks differently than the smaller LCO Companies. Thanks

As an outsider to one of these companies......

One of the Largest landscaping firms in the area was helped started by a guy (not trying to be specific) who had a share in the company. We're talking at least a million in sales a year.

Needless to say he left the company and was bought out by his partner after a few knock down drag out fights.

Now he has his own company from the buyout, and is in the top tier of LCO's in the area and competes against his old company.

I've heard multiple green industry stories about partnerships not panning out especially after the business has grown into one of these bigger companies.

snomaha
11-05-2010, 07:08 AM
The majority of partnerships in the green industry that fail didn't need the partnership to start with. The only reason you would need a partner when starting a small business is lack of capital or knowledge.

snomaha
11-05-2010, 07:17 AM
I know its a hard topic to discuss with out the facts and plan in front of you. There has to be some LCO's that are successful with partnerships. I am talking about big companies of 1 million dollars or more. Is there anyone in a partnership with revenue exceeding one million. Any Lco at that level thinks differently than the smaller LCO Companies. Thanks

My experience has been that selling or gifting non voting B shares (S corp) to retain key employees can work.

mudwisr2
11-05-2010, 08:08 AM
patience, selflessness, communication

threeleafllc
11-05-2010, 06:48 PM
patience, selflessness, communication

you got it!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stihl036pro
I know its a hard topic to discuss with out the facts and plan in front of you. There has to be some LCO's that are successful with partnerships. I am talking about big companies of 1 million dollars or more. Is there anyone in a partnership with revenue exceeding one million. Any Lco at that level thinks differently than the smaller LCO Companies. Thanks

find one and prove us wrong. There is a reason companies have 1 ceo.
10-27-2010 10:14 PM

MY partner and I have been working together for a long time no major blow outs ever...You have to understand both of your strong points and grow off of them.My partner is very good in the office bidding, talking to clients and stuff like that.If it was up to me i would never talk to client ever ,but sometimes i have to hahaha. For the fist time in 7 years last week i actually got a desk in the office and even a laptop and my own phone line. i don't think the other people in the office have ever seen me in there LOL..Point is i let him do what hes good at and he does the same with me..we do very well and plan to stay this way for a long time.You have to be a professional when it comes to partnerships.

joallen001
11-06-2010, 04:32 PM
you got it!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stihl036pro
I know its a hard topic to discuss with out the facts and plan in front of you. There has to be some LCO's that are successful with partnerships. I am talking about big companies of 1 million dollars or more. Is there anyone in a partnership with revenue exceeding one million. Any Lco at that level thinks differently than the smaller LCO Companies. Thanks

find one and prove us wrong. There is a reason companies have 1 ceo.
10-27-2010 10:14 PM

MY partner and I have been working together for a long time no major blow outs ever...You have to understand both of your strong points and grow off of them.My partner is very good in the office bidding, talking to clients and stuff like that.If it was up to me i would never talk to client ever ,but sometimes i have to hahaha. For the fist time in 7 years last week i actually got a desk in the office and even a laptop and my own phone line. i don't think the other people in the office have ever seen me in there LOL..Point is i let him do what hes good at and he does the same with me..we do very well and plan to stay this way for a long time.You have to be a professional when it comes to partnerships.

Partnerships can be a good thing if you know how to work it out. Personally it is a lot less stressful. You are both there to make the business grow and two people make it twice as fast. There will always be disagreements in a partnership. Thats part of life. The end outcome is what matters. I started out as a partner in the lawn care industry. Now we even do things on the side in the winter. We now own several rental properties too. I think it boils down to how you are as a person. If your a very stubborn and only see things your way its gonna be a long road. If you can sit back and see the big picture and both views it can be a great thing.

AdamChrap
11-09-2010, 10:40 PM
9 out of 10 times it will end badly.

PerfectEarth
01-03-2012, 07:21 PM
I'm going to BUMP this thread for some more input.

Sort of a long story, but I am in a position where I can partner with my old boss (the guy who basically taught me everything and who I have a great respect for....) I have grown a decent small business that has done fairly well but could really ZOOM with another super-talented guy.

He has very little (if anything) to bring to the business. I have built a customer base, paid for all equipment and loans, and run a business ON THE BOOKS for 4 years now. He'd basically be walking in on it... But bringing some very decent customer potential. We have talked about this for a few years and recently, A LOT. Now, we are going to sit down and hammer out details.

I want to do this right. Might even involve a lawyer, but worried about cost. We get along GREAT, work like a well-oiled machine together, and definitely know our strengths and weaknesses, personally.

Anything I SHOULD do? Look out for? Request of him? I really want to do this- just looking for any advice and guidance.... especially in the 'salary' area. Thanks!

RoyalTree
01-03-2012, 09:23 PM
99 out of 100 will only work with one of them dead.

I know of one very large company here in town that has made it work. One does the sales and one runs the operation.
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MarkintheGarden
01-04-2012, 09:02 AM
I'm going to BUMP this thread for some more input.

Sort of a long story, but I am in a position where I can partner with my old boss (the guy who basically taught me everything and who I have a great respect for....) I have grown a decent small business that has done fairly well but could really ZOOM with another super-talented guy.

He has very little (if anything) to bring to the business. I have built a customer base, paid for all equipment and loans, and run a business ON THE BOOKS for 4 years now. He'd basically be walking in on it... But bringing some very decent customer potential. We have talked about this for a few years and recently, A LOT. Now, we are going to sit down and hammer out details.

I want to do this right. Might even involve a lawyer, but worried about cost. We get along GREAT, work like a well-oiled machine together, and definitely know our strengths and weaknesses, personally.

Anything I SHOULD do? Look out for? Request of him? I really want to do this- just looking for any advice and guidance.... especially in the 'salary' area. Thanks!

A partnership agreement, well written and including all details of the relationship and considering all the possible worst case scenarios. When you have the consequences of separation spelled out in the agreement, then you can focus on working together.

The strength of a partnership is that you feel that your partner has your back and that he will take care of business with the same desire to succeed that you have.

Sometimes partnerships work better because people are often more motivated to take care of the team than they are to take care of themselves.

snomaha
01-04-2012, 10:17 AM
He has very little (if anything) to bring to the business.

Why do you want a partner? If he brings nothing to the table why not hire someone?

PerfectEarth
01-04-2012, 01:26 PM
Thanks for the responses guys.

Why do you want a partner? If he brings nothing to the table why not hire someone?

What I meant by that was this- brings no money or equipment (tangible items) to the partnership.

And that's not bad at this point- I have what we need to operate.

What he does bring is an incredible work ethic, extensive plant knowledge and design skills. Excellent people skills. Responsible, does everything to perfection... in other words, stuff that is valuable.

He's not a 10.00 guy you just hire.

RoyalTree
01-04-2012, 01:45 PM
Sounds like a good employee to hire
Posted via Mobile Device

PerfectEarth
01-04-2012, 02:01 PM
We might discuss putting him on weekly pay for year one, and then see. The problem with that is the expense on the biz with payroll taxes, worker's comp, etc... as his pay rate would be pretty decent hourly.

Any way to avoid this or advice? That is, if he were treated as an employee? Perhaps pay him as contract labor and he's responsible for the taxes?

larryinalabama
01-04-2012, 02:17 PM
Parterships involve to moch duplicate work, each has to review eachothers estmates, review all the books, just a big mess

snomaha
01-04-2012, 02:32 PM
We might discuss putting him on weekly pay for year one, and then see. The problem with that is the expense on the biz with payroll taxes, worker's comp, etc... as his pay rate would be pretty decent hourly.

Any way to avoid this or advice? That is, if he were treated as an employee? Perhaps pay him as contract labor and he's responsible for the taxes?

Not sure on your reasoning? you would rather give up part of your company then be responsible for payroll taxes?

MarkintheGarden
01-04-2012, 03:19 PM
Not sure on your reasoning? you would rather give up part of your company then be responsible for payroll taxes?

To me it sounds like he is saying that he cannot afford to hire him, but maybe as a partner he gets what he earns for the company. And that the new partner brings some business with him, so he is not giving up part of his company, he is combining his company with another company.

Anyway, there is no way to discuss a particular situation on a forum like this. There are too many details.

To me a prospective partner would bring a lot to the table that I do not have. If the prospect does not have something that I do not and vice versa, then there is no point. A good partnering is rare, but when it works, I imagine there is a lot of benefit to having someone to team up with.

If the prospect is bringing skills to the table, they do not count for much until they have been applied for long enough to evaluate what they are worth.

MarkintheGarden
01-04-2012, 03:24 PM
We might discuss putting him on weekly pay for year one, and then see. The problem with that is the expense on the biz with payroll taxes, worker's comp, etc... as his pay rate would be pretty decent hourly.

Any way to avoid this or advice? That is, if he were treated as an employee? Perhaps pay him as contract labor and he's responsible for the taxes?

Subcontracting could be a good idea.

PerfectEarth
01-04-2012, 03:37 PM
Parterships involve to moch duplicate work, each has to review eachothers estmates, review all the books, just a big mess

I disagree a little bit on that... You should't be 'duplicating' work if each person has their set responsibilities. And I think we know what those are. For example, he probably won't do ONE bit of accounting or books. That would be my job. Whereas, I probably wouldn't do one landscape drawing.

To me it sounds like he is saying that he cannot afford to hire him, but maybe as a partner he gets what he earns for the company. And that the new partner brings some business with him, so he is not giving up part of his company, he is combining his company with another company.

Anyway, there is no way to discuss a particular situation on a forum like this. There are too many details.

To me a prospective partner would bring a lot to the table that I do not have. If the prospect does not have something that I do not and vice versa, then there is no point. A good partnering is rare, but when it works, I imagine there is a lot of benefit to having someone to team up with.

If the prospect is bringing skills to the table, they do not count for much until they have been applied for long enough to evaluate what they are worth.

Thanks Mark. I like to read what you have to say. I want to say I will NOT be giving up or handing over anything to him that I have already purchased or earned. From starting point of the partnership and forward, we have to figure that out.

Also, this is not someone I would ever want to TREAT as an employee. It's not that kind of relationship. So I'm walking a fine line between demanding what I want, and wanting this to work (which requires a bit of 'give' on my part.) It's tricky.

As far as salary and pay are concerned, I've always just paid myself as needed, as I assume lots of us do. Now, I think a set salary schedule needs to happen. Which begs the question, what should his be? Lol (you don't have to answer that)

And yes, probably to much involved to hammer out on LS! :laugh:

I was just looking for similar experiences, good or terrible. And some advice.

MarkintheGarden
01-04-2012, 03:59 PM
I disagree a little bit on that... You should't be 'duplicating' work if each person has their set responsibilities. And I think we know what those are. For example, he probably won't do ONE bit of accounting or books. That would be my job. Whereas, I probably wouldn't do one landscape drawing.



Thanks Mark. I like to read what you have to say. I want to say I will NOT be giving up or handing over anything to him that I have already purchased or earned. From starting point of the partnership and forward, we have to figure that out.

Also, this is not someone I would ever want to TREAT as an employee. It's not that kind of relationship. So I'm walking a fine line between demanding what I want, and wanting this to work (which requires a bit of 'give' on my part.) It's tricky.

As far as salary and pay are concerned, I've always just paid myself as needed, as I assume lots of us do. Now, I think a set salary schedule needs to happen. Which begs the question, what should his be? Lol (you don't have to answer that)

And yes, probably to much involved to hammer out on LS! :laugh:

I was just looking for similar experiences, good or terrible. And some advice.

Your partnership agreement is like your pre-nuptial agreement. It has to spell out who get what in any circumstance. Partnership is a mutual risk, mutual benefit arrangement. It does not have to be equal risk and benefit, but it has to be mutual.

You have to look at the individual needs of the partners and work out an equitable financial agreement. Maybe base salary with bonuses tied to revenue. It has to be an arrangement that puts you both in a position to be willing to work your best and hardest for the maximum mutual gain.

You have to be willing to work together and it works best when the partners have diverse talents and skills. It also helps if one or both has sufficient capital. Finances are the ruin of most marriages and partnerships.

And speaking of marriage, married people already have a partner, if both partners are married, then you have four voices that need to be heard. A good partnership is a rare thing.

I have been a partner and had positive experiences both times, but they were in other businesses.

snomaha
01-06-2012, 02:46 PM
my experience - use an attorney. At some point you will need to unwind this thing and having it spelled out before is best practice.