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head_start
11-02-2010, 11:32 AM
What do i do to fertilize fruit trees organicly? i am managing a property with owners who are hard core organic, and they want me to try and fertilize thier fruit trees (apples), and try and prevent bugs from eating the fruit.
what should i do for fertilization?
what route could i look into for insect repellant?
Both must be strictly organic, no artificial anything can be involved.

ICT Bill
11-02-2010, 11:50 AM
What do i do to fertilize fruit trees organicly? i am managing a property with owners who are hard core organic, and they want me to try and fertilize thier fruit trees (apples), and try and prevent bugs from eating the fruit.
what should i do for fertilization?
what route could i look into for insect repellant?
Both must be strictly organic, no artificial anything can be involved.

Barry Draycott carries 1-2-3 Tree and 2 minimum risk pesticide which meet USDA National Organic Program standards

one gallon of tree will make 256 gallons of mix, it is most often applied as a drench at 1 to 2 gallons per DBH (diameter at breast height)

Essential-1 is a mix of six different essential oils, you could buy Barry blower mister and apply it foliarly, with a blower mister one gallon will treat 4.5 acres or roughly 10,000 sq ft per 3 gallons of mix

CedarCure is applied as a drench for soft bodied insects like white grubs, 16 ounces in 100 gallons of water will treat 50,000 sq ft

With organics you are trying to build a bubble of "get out here and go somewhere else", correct timing with fruit trees is critical, you do not want to keep away the beneficials

Vermicompost is excellent for trees just expensive but is probably the best to improve the overall health without a lot of top growth

the site should also be composting everything they can get their hands on and applying to the soil

covercrops are also very handy to keep weeds in check and keep top soil, clover is great for its nitrogen fixing capabilities

go to ATTRA.org they may have some pertinent information

phasthound
11-02-2010, 11:53 AM
What do i do to fertilize fruit trees organicly? i am managing a property with owners who are hard core organic, and they want me to try and fertilize thier fruit trees (apples), and try and prevent bugs from eating the fruit.
what should i do for fertilization?
what route could i look into for insect repellant?
Both must be strictly organic, no artificial anything can be involved.

Compost is your first choice. Remove all fallen leaves now to reduce fungal diseases next year. Then apply finished compost 2-3 inches deep under trees. Do not let compost touch tree trunks, and apply it out to the drip line.

ICT Organic products are all approved by the NOP for use on organic crops.
Use ICT Essential for insect control, ICT NPP for fungal control.

starry night
11-02-2010, 12:25 PM
It's a fast break. Bill outlets to Barry; Barry passes back to Bill; Bill to Barry; Barry with the slam dunk with Bill getting the assist. Great teamwork! :cool2:

phasthound
11-02-2010, 01:40 PM
It's a fast break. Bill outlets to Barry; Barry passes back to Bill; Bill to Barry; Barry with the slam dunk with Bill getting the assist. Great teamwork! :cool2:

And it's a win-win-win situation for all! :clapping:

Kiril
11-03-2010, 10:37 AM
Compost is your first choice. Remove all fallen leaves now to reduce fungal diseases next year. Then apply finished compost 2-3 inches deep under trees. Do not let compost touch tree trunks, and apply it out to the drip line.

Agreed. :clapping:

Compostwerks LLC
11-03-2010, 08:46 PM
Hi head_start;

My 2 cents on your fruit trees;

First, the question on nutrition. I would suggest a soil test. Cal/Mag and pH are particularly important with fruit bearing trees. I agree completely with Barry and Bill about getting organic matter into the system.

But it can take some time to get the biology working in your client's favor if just using compost (most commercially available compost is....lackluster).

We're working with woody plants here, so biology wise we're wanting to promote a higher fungal biomass. So think fungal foods. Substarates with a broad C:N ratio; granular and micronized humates, fish hydroysate (not emulsion) come to mind. Easy to apply with a spreader or drench/soil injection.

It's not just one tool in the toolbox here. You want diversity in your soil, so think diversity of microbial foods in the soil.

And what about soil structure? Is the soil compacted? If so, topdress with compost. Mulch. Great comments from Bill on cover crops and sourcing waste from on site to make compost with local biology.

Insects;

You bring up the key word; Repellent.

Surround (kayolin clay), Garlic, pheremone trapping/monitoring are the core of orchard insect management. All OMRI listed. These materials kill nothing. Maggot is the main pest. Some notable others. White grubs are not an issue in orchard management. Certainly won't be an issue even if surrounded by turf with enough OM in the soil.

Disease;

Scab and rust are the major issues. Compost tea...lots of fungi in the compost tea. Treat before and after extended rains, or every 10-14 days. We're not killing the scab and rust here, we're occupying infection sites.

Immediatly following wet cycles you may choose to use Oxydate (hydrogen dioxide) which is OMRI listed. Spray compost tea right after to re-inoculate. foliar surface.

Complete coverage is key. Tops and bottoms of leaves.

Timing, as Bill said is critical. A complex subject too long to post here.

Happy to help with OMRI listed materials above.

quackgrass
12-10-2010, 01:54 PM
My organic tree program:

Aerate and Compost the dripline annually.

Deeproot injection with Humic and fulvic acids.

Dormant oil spring, summer and fall with Purespray green (OMRI)

Azatrol applications if needed (azatrol is an OMRI listed neem oil from PBI Gordon, works better than any other neem I have tried)

Be carefull with neem, scorching can happen, especially with flowers. Its also very much an insecticide so wear PPE and treat it with respect.

I also explain that some pests and fertility issues cannot be controlled with organics. I ask them if they would like me to use synthetic micro nutrients and pesticides if the tree's life is at risk. (life support)

Kiril
12-10-2010, 02:26 PM
I also explain that some pests and fertility issues cannot be controlled with organics.

What fertility issues would those be?

quackgrass
12-10-2010, 04:10 PM
What fertility issues would those be?

Generally the fertility issues are caused by severe root damage, from construction or trenching, sometimes its a fungal disease, or it can be herbicide damage.

In cases of severe nutrient deficiency due to root damage, I choose to micro inject chelated nutrients into the trunk until the root zone is repaired. I try to target only the nutrients that are deficient in our extreme alkaline soils, (usually Magnesium, boron, zinc, copper, iron.)

Normally I hate to inject, but if a tree doesn't have a functioning root zone or canopy, there isn't much of an alternative if the tree is worth salvaging. In our climate trees have a short window to produce leaves, miss a couple seasons of healthy leaf growth and its over.

Tim Vipond
12-10-2010, 05:52 PM
From: http://www.aggrand.com/articles/g1292.pdf

Fruit Trees
Apple and Pear:
1st application:Foliar feed in spring after
leaf formation with 2-3 oz. 4-3-3 in 1 gal.
of water.
2nd application:Foliar feed during fruit set
with 1-2 oz. 4-3-3 in 1 gal. of water.
3rd application:Foliar feed during fruit fill
with 1-2 oz. 0-0-8 in 1 gal. of water. Add
additional 1-2 oz. of Liquid Lime where
bitter pit is problematic.
4th application:Broadcast 2-3 oz. 4-3-3 in 1
gal. of water on 100 sq. ft. in fall harvest or
in early spring. Till into soil with organic
matter or cover crop.
New Planting:Use same rates given under 4th
application. Pour some of the fertilizer solu-
tion into the bottom of the planting hole.

Also http://www.aggrand.com/apples.aspx?zo=1181889 .
Using AGGRAND to Grow Apples

Apples respond to foliar and soil applications of AGGRAND fertilizers. Peak foliar responses are obtained on perennial crops such as apples by applying AGGRAND fertilizers after the leaves open during pre-bloom, post-bloom, and during fruit set. Too much N affects fruit quality and shelf life. While nitrogen (N) is an important nutrient in apple production, apple trees store N from season to season. If leaves are chlorotic after they open in spring then this condition is a symptom of an N deficiency, which may limit production. By changing the foliar spray and soil application rates, type of fertilizer applied, and the number of applications the N status of this crop is adjusted.

To obtain the most comprehensive understanding of the nutrient levels and crop requirements of a particular soil, AGGRAND recommends a soil analysis be performed before determining a fertilization program. Soil Analysis Kits (G1374) are available from AGGRAND at a nominal cost.

Foliar Applications:
Mix 1-2 gallons of AGGRAND 4-3-3 Natural Fertilizer in 50-100 gallons of water (depending on tree density, spray equipment, and canopy volume). Spray on one acre after the leaves open. After bloom, repeat the AGGRAND 4-3-3 application if the trees require more N.
Mix 2-4 quarts of AGGRAND 0-0-8 Natural Kelp and Sulfate of Potash with the same volume of water and apply after fruit set.
Repeat the second application 3-4 weeks before final harvest.
Soil Applications:
Mix 3 gallons of AGGRAND 4-3-3 in 20-30 gallons of water. Apply solution to one acre (apply spring and fall if soil is hard and low in organic matter).

Rates vary according to soil fertility and other inputs used. Lower dilution rates are more effective than higher dilution rates. Two or three applications may be more effective than one heavy application. If other constraints only allow one trip over the field, then do not exceed a 3% dilution rate (3 gallons of AGGRAND to 100 gallons of water).

The addition of a biodegradable surfactant increases uptake by increasing adhesion to the leaf surface. Apply AGGRAND in the early morning or late evening. Do not apply before or after rainfall or irrigation. On standard field sprayers, use 5-series or larger turbo flood jet nozzles when applying AGGRAND to reduce clogging.

If bitter pit is a problem then add 1-2 gallons of AGGRAND Natural Liquid Lime to the spray tank to supply additional calcium.

To reduce susceptibility to attack of insects and disease causing organisms, apply 1-2 quarts of AGGRAND 0-0-8 Natural Kelp and Sulfate of Potash when signs of infestation begin to become apparent. AGGRAND added to the spray tank reduces the pesticide needed to obtain effective control by ⅓ to Ĺ. Some growers are finding that AGGRAND applications alone eliminate the need for pesticide applications when they are applied at the same time as pesticides.

Kiril
12-11-2010, 10:56 AM
Generally the fertility issues are caused by severe root damage, from construction or trenching, sometimes its a fungal disease, or it can be herbicide damage.

These are not soil fertility issues, but rather a condition(s) that may reduce a trees ability to obtain nutrients from the soil.

In cases of severe nutrient deficiency due to root damage, I choose to micro inject chelated nutrients into the trunk until the root zone is repaired. I try to target only the nutrients that are deficient in our extreme alkaline soils, (usually Magnesium, boron, zinc, copper, iron.)

Why? If the root system is that damaged then water & macronutrients are going to be the bigger problem, not micronutrients. Might it simply be a lack of plant available micros in the soil, due to whatever reason, as you mentioned above? In this case, addressing the cause of the problem, not the symptom (other than temporary band-aids), would seem to be a more prudent and long term solution.

Normally I hate to inject, but if a tree doesn't have a functioning root zone or canopy, there isn't much of an alternative if the tree is worth salvaging. In our climate trees have a short window to produce leaves, miss a couple seasons of healthy leaf growth and its over.

If the tree doesn't have a functioning root system or canopy (assuming this condition hasn't led to the death of the tree), I fail to see how injecting micros is going to help. What exactly are these injections for if your primary mechanisms for moving nutrients in the plant have been lost?

Oh, and I think the aggrand advertisement above is sufficient to show there are natural/organic sources of micros.

quackgrass
12-11-2010, 02:26 PM
These are not soil fertility issues, but rather a condition(s) that may reduce a trees ability to obtain nutrients from the soil.

I didn't say it was a SOIL fertility issue. That is why I'm injecting fertilizer into the TREE, because it isn't able to obtain it from the soil. :hammerhead:

Why? If the root system is that damaged then water & macro nutrients are going to be the bigger problem, not micro nutrients.

Its pretty easy to determine whether its water, macro, or micro deficient. An arborist would not assume that root issues only effect water and macro uptake. Go ahead and treat a copper, zinc and manganese deficient tree with only macros, you'll find the problem only gets worse. Its like trying to make soup thicker by adding more water.

Might it simply be a lack of plant available micros in the soil, due to whatever reason, as you mentioned above? In this case, addressing the cause of the problem, not the symptom (other than temporary band-aids), would seem to be a more prudent and long term solution.

Might "it"? what do you mean by "it"? Do you assume I take care of one tree? I care for over 20 thousand of trees each year, there is no "it". Every tree has its own conditions, in rare cases micro injecting cheelated nutrients is the prudent thing to do as a last resort.

Lack of plant available nutrients in the soil is addressed by adding human source compost (better chelation of micros) and deep root injecting with organic amendments, or air-spading and adding a better soil. In some cases, (like I mentioned) this won't help because there isn't sufficient nutrient uptake.

Maybe one out of a hundred micro deficient trees will not respond to soil applied nutrients, because its a root uptake issue - you can't beat a chelated micro injection for fast results if that's whats needed..

If the tree doesn't have a functioning root system or canopy (assuming this condition hasn't led to the death of the tree), I fail to see how injecting micros is going to help. What exactly are these injections for if your primary mechanisms for moving nutrients in the plant have been lost?

Its a temporary loss of root uptake, not permanent. The tree needs to make use of nutrients to repair its roots or fend of disease. Injections are like a feeding tube for somebody that can't swallow, last option but effective when needed.

Oh, and I think the aggrand advertisement above is sufficient to show there are natural/organic sources of micros.

There are many natural organic sources of micros no doubt. But are there any chealated to inject inside a tree for immediate uptake? Some organic micros take up to 4 months before they are plant available in a healthy root system, how is that going to help produce healthy foliage for carbohydrate production in a 4 month growing season?

Your logic escapes me, but I know that you love to argue. I love to discuss plant health issues with people who are open minded and not trying to push an agenda. My business thrives on results, not a self serving philosophy that I can do anything organically.

I doubt there are many here who use more organic product than myself, yet anytime I post, I can count on you trying to find fault with my methods.Its attitudes like yours that turn most people away from realizing the benefits of organic growing.

Given the current organic products on the market, you won't convince me that synthetic nutrients or pesticides don't have a place, so just ignore me.

dKoester
12-11-2010, 03:58 PM
I think using a hybrid of both synthetic and organic is great. 75 % organic 25% synthetic. seems to go great with my plants etc....
this way you get immediate and later uptake. similar to a business finding the right balance for the best results

:) :) :):dancing::clapping::dizzy::weightlifter:

Tim Vipond
12-11-2010, 04:08 PM
I think foliar feeding with liquid organics is the best. Immediate results, long term soil benefits.

Since we are talking apple trees, here is a testimony to the immediate effects of organic foliar feeding. From https://www.aggrand.com/dealer/testimonials/apples_test.aspx?zo=1181889 .

"Apple Orchards Thrive with AGGRAND Fertilizers

If you ask David Chung what he does to make his apple trees so healthy and the fruit crisp, juicy and sweet, his cryptic answer is, "Itís the fishy.

Chung is the owner of Johnaís Orchard, a family business in Tehachapi, Calif., a city in the mountains outside of Bakersfield.

"Farmers donít share their secret ingredients with each other, Chung said.

He grows and sells 10 varieties of Fuji apples. "Each kind has a great taste, Chung said.


The secret to his success? AGGRANDģ Liquid 4-3-3 Natural Fertilizer and Natural Kelp and Sulfate of Potash 0-0-8. Chung has been using AGGRAND products since the early 1990s. The products were recommended by his friendís grandfather, another orchard grower who had been using AGGRAND for years. The friend became an AGGRAND Dealer and Chung started using AGGRAND and found it to be the best fertilizer for his orchards. "Immediately we noticed a world of difference, he said.

Johnaís Orchards has been in business since 1978 and became organically certified in 1998.

"It wasnít easy to get our organic certification when we couldnít prove that AGGRAND was organic, Chung said. "Two years ago we couldnít use it because the regulations were becoming more strict.

AGGRAND ingredients always have been recognized as organic, said AGGRAND Manager Greg Sawyer. However, AGGRAND recently received official approval as organic material from the Washington State Department of Agriculture.

"It makes it much easier. Iím glad AGGRAND got the certification, Chung said. "One thing is for sure, we are convinced that AGGRAND has the best effect and we wonít give it up ever. And the service is great too.

Chung said monthly spraying begins in the spring and continues until September or October. He compares his trees to the same kind of trees in the orchard next to his.

"Within the first month our leaves are greener, healthier, fresher looking than the trees next door, Chung said. "The quantity is about the same, but the quality is much better. Itís the taste and color Ė our apples are crispy with lots of flavor, and theyíre juicy. Our apples have more taste than any other apples in the world.

Johnaís Orchards customers have been exclusively organic food sellers in the past. "They would call every year and ask us to supply them, Chung said.

Now the apples are sold at farmerís markets as well. "Our apples are the tastiest at the farmerís markets too."

Kiril
12-11-2010, 04:33 PM
I didn't say it was a SOIL fertility issue. That is why I'm injecting fertilizer into the TREE, because it isn't able to obtain it from the soil.

Terminology quack. When we speak of "fertility" we are talking about the soil fertility. When we are speaking about a plant (tree), we are talking about plant nutrition.

Its pretty easy to determine whether its water, macro, or micro deficient. An arborist would not assume that root issues only effect water and macro uptake. Go ahead and treat a copper, zinc and manganese deficient tree with only macros, you'll find the problem only gets worse. Its like trying to make soup thicker by adding more water.

You completely missed the point.

Might "it"? what do you mean by "it"? Do you assume I take care of one tree? I care for over 20 thousand of trees each year, there is no "it". Every tree has its own conditions, in rare cases micro injecting cheelated nutrients is the prudent thing to do as a last resort.

What do you think I mean by "it"? Wasn't it made clear by the quote and following response? As far as the rest ... what exactly is your point? A statement of the obvious doesn't say much, nor did it address what I brought up.

Lack of plant available nutrients in the soil is addressed by adding human source compost (better chelation of micros) and deep root injecting with organic amendments, or air-spading and adding a better soil. In some cases, (like I mentioned) this won't help because there isn't sufficient nutrient uptake. Maybe one out of a hundred micro deficient trees will not respond to soil applied nutrients, because its a root uptake issue - you can't beat a chelated micro injection for fast results if that's whats needed..

Good ... now you are being clear.

Its a temporary loss of root uptake, not permanent. The tree needs to make use of nutrients to repair its roots or fend of disease. Injections are like a feeding tube for somebody that can't swallow, last option but effective when needed.

You did not answer the question.

There are many natural organic sources of micros no doubt. But are there any chealated to inject inside a tree for immediate uptake?

Why wouldn't there be? Is there some functional difference between a chelated ion from a natural source vs. a synthetic one that I am not aware of?

Some organic micros take up to 4 months before they are plant available in a healthy root system, how is that going to help produce healthy foliage for carbohydrate production in a 4 month growing season?

Perhaps, and one could same the same for soil applied synthetics. For shiits and grins, why not post some references for that 4 months and which organics fall under that category.

Your logic escapes me, but I know that you love to argue. I love to discuss plant health issues with people who are open minded and not trying to push an agenda. My business thrives on results, not a self serving philosophy that I can do anything organically.

I doubt there are many here who use more organic product than myself, yet anytime I post, I can count on you trying to find fault with my methods.Its attitudes like yours that turn most people away from realizing the benefits of organic growing.

I am not trying to argue or push an agenda. I am merely pointing out some issues with what you posted and asked for clarification. I am sorry you have a problem with this. I suppose if you can't handle people asking for clarification or questioning information you have presented, then perhaps you shouldn't post.

Given the current organic products on the market, you won't convince me that synthetic nutrients or pesticides don't have a place, so just ignore me.

So you are aware of all the organic products on the market and/or methods of supplying organics (that are not necessarily "on the market") to meet the nutritional needs of trees? I'm impressed. :rolleyes:

Kiril
12-11-2010, 04:36 PM
I think foliar feeding with liquid organics is the best. Immediate results, long term soil benefits.

Since we are talking apple trees, here is a testimony to the immediate effects of organic foliar feeding. From https://www.aggrand.com/dealer/testimonials/apples_test.aspx?zo=1181889 .

"Apple Orchards Thrive with AGGRAND Fertilizers

If you ask David Chung what he does to make his apple trees so healthy and the fruit crisp, juicy and sweet, his cryptic answer is, "Itís the fishy.

Chung is the owner of Johnaís Orchard, a family business in Tehachapi, Calif., a city in the mountains outside of Bakersfield.

"Farmers donít share their secret ingredients with each other, Chung said.

He grows and sells 10 varieties of Fuji apples. "Each kind has a great taste, Chung said.


The secret to his success? AGGRANDģ Liquid 4-3-3 Natural Fertilizer and Natural Kelp and Sulfate of Potash 0-0-8. Chung has been using AGGRAND products since the early 1990s. The products were recommended by his friendís grandfather, another orchard grower who had been using AGGRAND for years. The friend became an AGGRAND Dealer and Chung started using AGGRAND and found it to be the best fertilizer for his orchards. "Immediately we noticed a world of difference, he said.

Johnaís Orchards has been in business since 1978 and became organically certified in 1998.

"It wasnít easy to get our organic certification when we couldnít prove that AGGRAND was organic, Chung said. "Two years ago we couldnít use it because the regulations were becoming more strict.

AGGRAND ingredients always have been recognized as organic, said AGGRAND Manager Greg Sawyer. However, AGGRAND recently received official approval as organic material from the Washington State Department of Agriculture.

"It makes it much easier. Iím glad AGGRAND got the certification, Chung said. "One thing is for sure, we are convinced that AGGRAND has the best effect and we wonít give it up ever. And the service is great too.

Chung said monthly spraying begins in the spring and continues until September or October. He compares his trees to the same kind of trees in the orchard next to his.

"Within the first month our leaves are greener, healthier, fresher looking than the trees next door, Chung said. "The quantity is about the same, but the quality is much better. Itís the taste and color Ė our apples are crispy with lots of flavor, and theyíre juicy. Our apples have more taste than any other apples in the world.

Johnaís Orchards customers have been exclusively organic food sellers in the past. "They would call every year and ask us to supply them, Chung said.

Now the apples are sold at farmerís markets as well. "Our apples are the tastiest at the farmerís markets too."

Rep alert!

quackgrass
12-11-2010, 05:01 PM
I'm sure Aggrand is a fine product.

I wouldn't know much about farming fruit trees, but I'm sure the theory is much differen't than how I typically treat.

We have ornamental fruits, but its plant health, not the fruit I'm after. I don't like to supply very much nitrogen unless the tree is deficient. Promoting unnatural growth in a tree can lead to canopy structure and pruning issues down the road. It may influence a dependency on fertilizer which may not be a sustainable route or good investment for the owner. Certain metals are easily supplied organically and fast through bio solids, and other times Phosphorus injections can clear up a bacterial problem before it gets bad.

Humic and fulvic acids for high value trees will be a wise investment in my soils. Compost is wonderfull, and oils will reduce insect damage and even fungal problems.

The climate is changing where I live pretty drastically, the trees are having a hard time just surviving, let alone properly digesting and allocating nutrients well.

There is a high percentage of trees in my town that died from a cold snap early last fall, Alot of that is just species selection, planting and adaptation, but some of it is nutrient based. I would hate to be the guy that pushed a bunch of foliage growth too late into the fall and do more harm than good.

Ornamental/Native - and turf/farm are like apples and oranges, major fundamental differences. The 5 step fertility programs are not good for much other than farming or growing turf.

Kiril
12-11-2010, 05:05 PM
I'm sure Aggrand is a fine product.

I wouldn't know much about farming fruit trees, but I'm sure the theory is much differen't than how I typically treat.

We have ornamental fruits, but its plant health, not the fruit I'm after. I don't like to supply very much nitrogen unless the tree is deficient. Promoting unnatural growth in a tree can lead to canopy structure and pruning issues down the road. It may influence a dependency on fertilizer which may not be a sustainable route or good investment for the owner. Certain metals are easily supplied organically and fast through bio solids, and other times Phosphorus injections can clear up a bacterial problem before it gets bad.

Humic and fulvic acids for high value trees will be a wise investment in my soils. Compost is wonderfull, and oils will reduce insect damage and even fungal problems.

The climate is changing where I live pretty drastically, the trees are having a hard time just surviving, let alone properly digesting and allocating nutrients well.

There is a high percentage of trees in my town that died from a cold snap early last fall, Alot of that is just species selection, planting and adaptation, but some of it is nutrient based. I would hate to be the guy that pushed a bunch of foliage growth too late into the fall and do more harm than good.

Ornamental/Native - and turf/farm are like apples and oranges, major fundamental differences. The 5 step fertility programs are not good for much in the arctic.

Now see, that was a good, clear post.

Compostwerks LLC
12-11-2010, 06:02 PM
[
Given the current organic products on the market, you won't convince me that synthetic nutrients or pesticides don't have a place, so just ignore me.[/QUOTE]

We wont ignore you. That's what we're all here for.

I guess a good anology/question is whether you want your trees to be in the health club or the hospital.

There are cases in plant care (and more so with healthcare of people) that aggressive things are done...like micro infusion...or things that are done to people in the hospital; injections of medications (pesticides) and invasive surgery. If we care about the plants or people, this is what is done. I call this 'tools in the toolbox'.

Do we have a client that want's to save the tree no matter what? We may choose to use all those tools.

The choice is whether we address the reasons that plant health was comprimised.

Will micro/macro infusion address the cause of the problem? I think the answer is no. We are just treating symptoms when we reach for the medicine jar. Do these tools serve a niche in presenting some short term options? In some cases yes. Can micro/macro infusion buy you some time while you can improve growing conditions? Maybe.

The real task is that we build a program that can take over after chemical inputs are employed.

phasthound
12-11-2010, 07:20 PM
I'm sure Aggrand is a fine product.

I wouldn't know much about farming fruit trees, but I'm sure the theory is much differen't than how I typically treat.

We have ornamental fruits, but its plant health, not the fruit I'm after. I don't like to supply very much nitrogen unless the tree is deficient. Promoting unnatural growth in a tree can lead to canopy structure and pruning issues down the road. It may influence a dependency on fertilizer which may not be a sustainable route or good investment for the owner. Certain metals are easily supplied organically and fast through bio solids, and other times Phosphorus injections can clear up a bacterial problem before it gets bad.

Humic and fulvic acids for high value trees will be a wise investment in my soils. Compost is wonderfull, and oils will reduce insect damage and even fungal problems.

The climate is changing where I live pretty drastically, the trees are having a hard time just surviving, let alone properly digesting and allocating nutrients well.

There is a high percentage of trees in my town that died from a cold snap early last fall, Alot of that is just species selection, planting and adaptation, but some of it is nutrient based. I would hate to be the guy that pushed a bunch of foliage growth too late into the fall and do more harm than good.

Ornamental/Native - and turf/farm are like apples and oranges, major fundamental differences. The 5 step fertility programs are not good for much other than farming or growing turf.

It's good to have you back. Good common science and science based posts are welcome!

dKoester
12-11-2010, 07:28 PM
I think using a hybrid of both synthetic and organic is great. 75 % organic 25% synthetic. seems to go great with my plants etc....
this way you get immediate and later uptake. similar to a business finding the right balance for the best results

:) :) :):dancing::clapping::dizzy::weightlifter:

I disagree with this hacked post from my brother.

starry night
12-11-2010, 11:31 PM
I disagree with this hacked post from my brother.

Did you mean hacked or wacked?

dKoester
12-12-2010, 12:26 AM
He was just messing around on my account cause I left my computer on while checking in on a job. He didn't think I would notice.

quackgrass
12-12-2010, 06:54 AM
It's good to have you back. Good common science and science based posts are welcome!

Awe you're just saying that because I bought so much fertilizer from you this year :rolleyes: :laugh:

Seriously tho, I'm happy with how it worked. That first semi load was used during July for summer applications and the second load was used as a fall application, so we'll see how that turns out. All the bags were sealed and rain resistant. The product was uniform with zero clumps. I was impressed.

It was a good year for turf anyhow, but i'm confident the summer app provided a little healthier look, less blighting, and more positive feedback. I hope it stays cost effective.

I ended up using tree products from someone else, The compost tea seemed to do nothing, but that's been my luck with every tea so far.

I'm pretty happy with a fulvic/humic acid from world organics put its pricey. If you have anything to compete with that please email it to me, I'd be looking at a couple 300 gallon shuttles.