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SunScaping
11-04-2010, 05:34 PM
Can someone (Sean Adams) please explain why our posts are being deleted.

As Lawn Site members, we have the right to know. Let us speak the truth and give out the facts.

Is that sponser really that important to the financial success of this site?

Sean Adams
11-04-2010, 05:46 PM
A thread started about a lawsuit that is pending does not belong on this site. Discussions like this quickly turn into finger pointing and "he said, she said". It makes no difference to us who the thread is about as we have removed threads before relating to legal matters that involved companies that were not even sponsors or participants of this site.

There is a time and place for discussions like this, but this is not one of them.

Sorry guys, not trying to be difficult but it's just the way we have always handled this kind of thing.

SunScaping
11-04-2010, 05:52 PM
Ok, Fine. One thread involved the law suit issue, the other did not.
Why can't we point out the facts and keep our industry up to date with the facts?

GunnPropertyServices
11-04-2010, 07:04 PM
Ok, Fine. One thread involved the law suit issue, the other did not.
Why can't we point out the facts and keep our industry up to date with the facts?

pointing out facts and keeping up to date with the industry is second to making money. cant really blame them but it does suck at times

S&MLL
11-04-2010, 07:23 PM
I think my post count would be atleast 600 by now if it wasnt for deleted posts. On a side note has anyone talked to Alan in regards to the post?

TuckerLand
11-04-2010, 08:07 PM
I guess I can see the point of this forum not being the place to point fingers concerning lawsuits. Anyone can google Unique Lighting/Landscape Lighting World Lawsuit and do their own research. If products are found to be infringing the public should know so they do not infringe also by using or making videos endorsing the product.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
11-04-2010, 10:16 PM
I have a suggestion if I may... Why don't we all wait and see what transpires.

I seem to recall, not all that long ago, another company that offers similar looking products to those branded as unique being sued on the same basis. Do some research and find out how that went. The short story is that the 'other business' was free to carry on doing what they were doing.

Those of you who have been to China will know that the fixture castings are widely available from a large number of different sources. For the most part all of the castings look the same and have the same features. The differentiation in the product comes at the assembly stage. Some choose to assemble them here, others choose to assemble them abroad.

There is more to the whole patent debate than appears on the surface. Just have a long talk with the other guy who went through this already... and prevailed.

In the mean time... lets all chill, focus on our own affairs and let the process take its course. There are at least two sides to every story.

Regards

AztlanLC
11-04-2010, 10:27 PM
I'm surprised how many people became a member just to post on this issue and they all seem to have something against Alan and tommy, yet hiding behind a screen name,why don't you post your web site, show the work you do, at least the name of your company, be honest and really post the actual reason for your comments.

Prolightscaper
11-04-2010, 11:22 PM
I have a suggestion if I may... Why don't we all wait and see what transpires.

I seem to recall, not all that long ago, another company that offers similar looking products to those branded as unique being sued on the same basis. Do some research and find out how that went. The short story is that the 'other business' was free to carry on doing what they were doing.

Those of you who have been to China will know that the fixture castings are widely available from a large number of different sources. For the most part all of the castings look the same and have the same features. The differentiation in the product comes at the assembly stage. Some choose to assemble them here, others choose to assemble them abroad.

There is more to the whole patent debate than appears on the surface. Just have a long talk with the other guy who went through this already... and prevailed.

In the mean time... lets all chill, focus on our own affairs and let the process take its course. There are at least two sides to every story.

Regards

here is the full 50 page complaint

http://www.legalmetric.com/complaints/casd%203-10cv02174-1-1.pdf

It's pretty compelling and straightforward

Unique has developed products , invested real money in them and taken action to legally protect them with patents . Sounds very responsible and business like.

If the other side of the story that you are talking about is going to the same factory in China, taking another established manufacturers molds, making slight changes to them for little or without any out of pocket costs then turning around selling them in the open market from an open internet website with published pricing for a fraction of the original cost and calling it free enterprise well then I must strongly disagree.

The interesting and revealing thing about this whole mess is the position and view outsiders take regarding it. You really have to question where some people are coming from. Not anyone I'd want to do business with that's for sure.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
11-04-2010, 11:47 PM
Apparently, The issue resides in when patents were obtained. You may be able to obtain a patent 'after the fact' but is it enforceable once the product has become 'open source' from a variety of factories? The last time around, the answer was "no".

If the other side of the story that you are talking about is going to the same factory in China, ... Who is talking about "the same factory"? Most of the brass castings and components that are assembled and sold as fixtures here are available from multiple sources in China. These fixtures have become virtually ubiquitous, differing only by how they are assembled and what internal components are used.

Prolightscaper
11-05-2010, 12:14 AM
Apparently, The issue resides in when patents were obtained. You may be able to obtain a patent 'after the fact' but is it enforceable once the product has become 'open source' from a variety of factories? The last time around, the answer was "no".

If the other side of the story that you are talking about is going to the same factory in China, ... Who is talking about "the same factory"? Most of the brass castings and components that are assembled and sold as fixtures here are available from multiple sources in China. These fixtures have become virtually ubiquitous, differing only by how they are assembled and what internal components are used.

I am not an importer of brass lights and I've never been to China. Do you import brass lights? Have you been to China? You speak as if you do.

If not then any information that you may have gotten is second hand and not from the primary source and it's heresay.

As for your argument regarding the patent dates that is not valid. All of the patent dates on the document I posted are several yrs old and before there ever was a LLW.

Even if the patents were filed after the fact (and it appears they were not) what is the difference?

Does that give someone the right to duplicate existing products in the marketplace, take advantage of their marketing and terminology (ie-hub system) undercut and sell them for half the price?

ubiquitous, differing only by how they are assembled and what internal components are used

where do you get this idea from? That's just a wild blanket statement. I see plenty of original and different product in the marketplace and alot of it comes from Asia.

Do you know what the design, research, mold and tool costs are to produce brass fixtures? I don't either but I suspect they are not insignificant.

So do you really think that all of these parts are coming from multiple factories that all happen to have the same molds? Highly unlikely.

Furthermore I don't ever remember seeing Unique fixtures anywhere else in the marketplace before Unique introduced them. perhaps a wellight but the Gimbal ring is the part that is in question in the complaint.

The uplight, the flood lights no way those are all original Unique products no doubt about that.

AztlanLC
11-05-2010, 09:27 AM
You really have to question where some people are coming from.

I really question that and have not gotten answers to it.