PDA

View Full Version : killing Bermuda, Crabgrass and assorted weeds.


Green Pastures
08-19-2002, 05:30 PM
HI!

I've got a 14,011 sq. ft. residential yard I'm doing a complete kill, put down organic compost, fert and lime (amounts based on soil sample results) till in, rake smooth and then seed with turf type tall fescue. The customer will have irrigation prior to my seeding.

My question is this, in your experience how many times do you have to spray Roundup Quick Pro Dry mixed with Fuselade (fuselpop ??) in a backpack sprayer before everything is really dead. Whats there is Bermuda, Crabgrass, Dailass Grass among about 15 other kinds of weeds/plants. In short it's horrible. One of those new homes where the builder basically graded over all his trash and then threw down straw.

I'm billing it as if I will have to spray the entire yard twice. What would you do? Think I'm on the right track?

Thanks!
Scott

KirbysLawn
08-19-2002, 06:16 PM
Once for me on the ones I have done. I use a tank sprayer with tracker dye. When you say till are using a tiller???

TurfGuyTX
08-19-2002, 08:04 PM
I'd be concerned about tilling everything in. You could be burying crab grass and dallis grass seeds for the future. Will you be able to apply a Pre-M? Do use a tracker dye if possible. It will help you get better coverage. Good luck.

wayne volz
08-19-2002, 09:48 PM
:blob2:

Scott,

Let me start by saying good luck when it comes to killing out Bermuda. Very hard in most situations to take it completely out."for good"

I would noy rec, tilling at all. If you till the Bermuda, you will only be making new starting pionts for the Bermuda to begin growth again if not completely taken out. I would be sure to advise your customer that it will be an on-going effort after the new seed geminates and you will prob, need to spot sray Bermuda as/if it beginds to come back.

Good Luck and believe this. We have been renovating lawns for many years and dread trying to take Bermuda out and starting a fescue or bluegrass lawn.

Good Luck.

Green Pastures
08-19-2002, 10:32 PM
Yes, when I said till, I meant tilling. I thought I should do that because the ground is just so hard and compacted. I have had several others recommend against it though, and Im thinking now about just VERY aggressively aerating it. The original thought was to till because I'll be putting down an inch of organic compost as well as "sport Turface" from Lesco as well as lime and starter fert. I thought it would be best to till that all in.

Yes to the tracker dye as well. I thought I could never keep track of where I'd sprayed on 14,000 sq ft without it.

Yes I will be using pre-m in the spring and a second app in late spring/early summer. Probably using Pre-m or Dimension from Lesco.

Seeding will be Fescue, a blend called Southern Belle from Turf and Garden. It's a propriatary (sp) blend that is only sold locally and it's blended especially for this area. We are in the worst of the transition zone if you ask me. Everybody wants fescue but it's hard to keep healthy here. :dizzy:

I've got mow only customers without irrigation and even the bermuda lawns looks terrible, all yellowed, thin and DRY!

Any more suggestions??? I'm listening!

Scott

dforbes
08-19-2002, 11:17 PM
It has been our experiance that 2 to 3 applications applied 7-10 days apart. I have never went back after the first application and not had to spot spray new growth. In this area bermuda is very hard to get rid of and often reapears in a year or so. Also if any ajoining properties have it it will spead in from there. I would put it in writing that I couldn't guarantee that it would work. Otherwise you may be doing it more than once with no extra compansation. Good luck
Dennis

dforbes
08-19-2002, 11:26 PM
It has been our experiance that 2 to 3 applications applied 7-10 days apart. I have never went back after the first application and not had to spot spray new growth. In this area bermuda is very hard to get rid of and often reapears in a year or so. Also if any ajoining properties have it it will spead in from there. I would put it in writing that I couldn't guarantee that it would work. Otherwise you may be doing it more than once with no extra compansation. Good luck
Dennis

Green Pastures
08-19-2002, 11:42 PM
Dennis,

Yeah, I thought of that. I'm a big huge fan of contracts, and putting in there that Bermuda is one of the hardest grasses to completely eradicate is a done deal.

These customers are really good from my point of view. They have stated to me that they realize it may take as many as 3 full growing seasons to get the beautiful lawn they want........and then continual professional attention to keep it that way.

Scott

KirbysLawn
08-20-2002, 03:18 AM
If the ground is that hard look at an Aera-vator. I would not till a lawn with a tiller, you will have a mess when you are done.

Green Pastures
08-20-2002, 08:40 AM
Where in the world can I look at one? I cant seem to find anyone who rents them in my area. Websites?

Thanks
Scott

Tony Harrell
08-24-2002, 08:08 AM
I hope I can put this so everyone understands what I'm trying to say. Here goes; I live on a corner lot and I have a neighbor with bermuda grass (yuck!) on one side and my grandmother on the other side. All of our back yards converge as well as my side lot. I've tilled a very large part of my grandmother's back yard for years as a garden. It's slowly gotten smaller as she grew older but this year she asked me to expand it a little. As the garden got smaller over time, the neighbors bermuda crept in and took over. The point of my post is that we didn't actually plant the expanded area and the bermuda is thick as ever. Even with several tillings and roundup applications, this stuff is incredibly tough. We've even used a small area for limb and debris burning but it always comes back thicker than ever. I started to think we were cursed by gypsys or something.

dforbes
08-24-2002, 12:41 PM
Tony when are you tilling.In the spring? Tilling is one of the worst things you can do. Of coarse if its a garden you have to. The best time to kill bermuda is when its actively growing. I would till as much of the garden as possible and as soon as possible durring August and early September. Then check it in a week and spray any bermuda, try to get 2 or 3 apps of roundup down before it gets cold. Also spraying an area 15' around the garden that will not be tilled and reseeding would probably keep most of the bermuda out of the garden. You will need to do this each year to keep it up, its a lot of work, but hea, its grandma.
Dennis

dforbes
08-24-2002, 12:42 PM
oh yea i forgot, you will have to till the garden in the spring but I think this might help.
Dennis

TaylorLawn
09-23-2002, 08:42 AM
Tony,
I have the same problem with my neighbor's yard next door...What I did was kill all of the bermuda, (as best I could) and till and then spray again....I then laid down a metal edging about 2 feet from the fence, then laid down the sod (centipede). About once a month I spray along the fenceline and keep the bermuda at bay, and so far, the centipede is doing well, and nothing has penetrated the edging....good luck..ET

greenman
09-23-2002, 10:13 PM
Can Round-Up be applied after seeded but before germination if any grass/weeds do come up again or will that effect the germination process?

Tony Harrell
01-02-2003, 04:48 PM
Thought I'd raise this one from the dead. Dormant Bermuda is quite noticeable right now. We had city water installed last year and the Bermuda has taken over large areas where they layed the pipe next to the road. I've also noticed some areas where the Bermuda seems to be "blended" into my existing grass. I know I'm going to have to kill the large areas but, what about the creeping? I think I'll need a dome over my lawn to protect it from all the crappy lawns around me. I aerated/seeded/ferilized in the fall and put down my winter fert last week. Is there anything that can be done now or do I wait for the Bermuda to start growing, and then what?

TaylorLawn
01-02-2003, 07:32 PM
I have a sodded area out back where I have actually had to get down on my hands and knees and pull the "creeping" stuff out! But since the last post above I have had no invaders in the newly sodded area with the metal edging, it was well worth it.......Eric

IGROTURF
01-02-2003, 07:59 PM
Here is how you could try controlling bermuda,drop the customer,just kidding.
Treat with fuslade at .75 oz and your r-up rate. Of course the bermuda must a active in growth. With the r-up pulling the fuslade thru the roots, it will be a slow kill but better control. Remember you should wait 3 week b-4 seeding.
The turf face is good stuff 50 lbs per 1000 sqft.

Tilling the bermuda could propagate the roots if you dont get good control plus bring up weed seed.

Igroturf

Pacific Nursery
01-08-2003, 10:44 PM
Ornamec works pretty good on bermuda too, but I think fulsilade is best.
Try this: Mix or apply in two apps, fusilade and acclaim. The label on acclaim warns against using on bermuda. Won't kill it but will slow it down/weaken it. Then the fusilade will kill more of it. Prepare to do at least one follow-up app, and repeat in the years to come. It just won't go away.

SWD
01-09-2003, 07:41 AM
Instead of trying to spray the undesireable grow out, I have done this very successfully. Prepare your seedbed or sodbed - I have a Harley T-5 on my compact tractor - then apply Basimid at the high label rate. Granular fumigants work better in my opinion than foliar applications for controlling all growth.
Don't worry about bacterial and microbial populations being harmed as empirical research has shown these will repopulate before seed germination.
The good thing about fumigants, not only does the growth get nuked, you also are getting weed seeds and other unwanted growth.

Ric
01-09-2003, 09:11 PM
USGA recomends 4 apps Roundup and Fusilade 10 days apart to kill Bermuda. They also recomend to run irrigation for gemination of weeds between apps. Fusilade has a 7 day residule.

Pre-M before Seeding???? NOT

Tilling in topsoil is a must. I am not going to write a novel just call it Rizosphere.