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fireman1317
11-09-2010, 10:02 PM
Hey all,

What would be a good list of Pesticides and Herbicides that you recommend having on hand or carrying when just starting out? For example does everyone always keep a backpack sprayer of Round-up on hand?

For the record I know that I have to be certified and have my company licensed. I have taken the two day class at Purdue and will be taking by Core, 3a and 3b tests over the next couple months.

:usflag:

CHARLES CUE
11-09-2010, 10:19 PM
Hey all,

What would be a good list of Pesticides and Herbicides that you recommend having on hand or carrying when just starting out? For example does everyone always keep a backpack sprayer of Round-up on hand?

For the record I know that I have to be certified and have my company licensed. I have taken the two day class at Purdue and will be taking by Core, 3a and 3b tests over the next couple months.

:usflag:

It would all depend on what your doing.

In the spring i just have 3 way and a wetting agent. If i am doing flower beds than a pre and maybe some round up.

In the summer 3 way again and some drive for any crabgrass showing up.

Buy the end of summer you may need different things every things out by than.

If i were you start out with 3way a sticker spreader and play it by ear and see what you need. Don't buy a bunch of chems you don't need.

Charles Cue

fireman1317
11-09-2010, 11:22 PM
It would all depend on what your doing.

In the spring i just have 3 way and a wetting agent. If i am doing flower beds than a pre and maybe some round up.

In the summer 3 way again and some drive for any crabgrass showing up.

Buy the end of summer you may need different things every things out by than.

If i were you start out with 3way a sticker spreader and play it by ear and see what you need. Don't buy a bunch of chems you don't need.

Charles Cue

Please pardon my ignorance, but I'm still getting educated. Are you applying each of these products with a backpack sprayer doing spot treatments.

Also, is the best way to do full lawn pre applications or 3 way applications is with a skid or ride on sprayer?

Basically just trying to figure out what I can offer to my customers if I were not able to have a sprayer by next spring.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
11-09-2010, 11:50 PM
Pretty simple, for the common broadleaf weeds.
Straight 3way amine, and either Momentum FX2 or TZone (ester) for the hard-to-kills.
Carry a hand can with glyphosate mixed up.
You will want to use a sticker product too (adjuvent), like Lesco spreader/sticker.
Then, you just need pre for crabgrass, which I always just buy mixed with fert for my first app.

cgaengineer
11-10-2010, 12:10 AM
Round up, 3way, celcius, surfactant, defoamer, MSMA (get it quick), Octane and a Pre-m

Tracker dye for a beginner...
Posted via Mobile Device

grassmasterswilson
11-10-2010, 08:19 AM
you ask such a broad question. please remember that things you are able to spray up north, I might not be able to spray down here. It all depends on species of turf and temperatures.

Also a lot of guys use lesco...I do not...so many products they talk about are trade names.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
11-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Round up, 3way, celcius, surfactant, defoamer, MSMA (get it quick), Octane and a Pre-m

Tracker dye for a beginner...
Posted via Mobile Device

Maybe a little overboard for the guy starting out. He DOES need to know these products eventually, but the KISS principal starting out worked just dandy for me.

cgaengineer
11-10-2010, 12:19 PM
Maybe a little overboard for the guy starting out. He DOES need to know these products eventually, but the KISS principal starting out worked just dandy for me.

I just bought a few here and there and that's what I have now...
Posted via Mobile Device

JD2320
11-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Spreader stickers are not needed with weed control.

fl-landscapes
11-10-2010, 02:47 PM
Spreader stickers are not needed with weed control.

Thats a bold statement. Some chemicals need to be mixed with surfactant or seed oil some dont, some waxy leaf weeds need surfactant while some weeds dont. I would respectfully disagree with your assessment that spreader sticker is not needed in weed control as a blanket statement.

JD2320
11-10-2010, 03:10 PM
The only weed I never get good control on is mature violets. Other than that I get awesome control and never use a surfactant and I also use resonably hard water too.

If you tell me I can kill mature violets with Momentum or similar by adding spreader sticker I will try it. I have 5 gallons that was given to me years ago. Never touched it.

This whole gotta use surfactants deal is a recent fad, and I just don't see the need, especially since most guys are using some form of low volume small droplet application method.

ted putnam
11-10-2010, 03:11 PM
Thats a bold statement. Some chemicals need to be mixed with surfactant or seed oil some dont, some waxy leaf weeds need surfactant while some weeds dont. I would respectfully disagree with your assessment that spreader sticker is not needed in weed control as a blanket statement.

I agree. If there was ONE thing I think should be in every chem storage cabinet/box whether it be North, South or any Turf species treated, it would be a container of a quality surfactant. Not always needed but at times very necessary. JMO

JD2320
11-10-2010, 03:13 PM
I agree. If there was ONE thing I think should be in every chem storage cabinet/box whether it be North, South or any Turf species treated, it would be a container of a quality surfactant. Not always needed but at times very necessary. JMO

When is it "very necessary." And if it's only needed when "Very Necessary" why do guys add it every time they load?

rcreech
11-10-2010, 03:35 PM
The only weed I never get good control on is mature violets. Other than that I get awesome control and never use a surfactant and I also use resonably hard water too.

If you tell me I can kill mature violets with Momentum or similar by adding spreader sticker I will try it. I have 5 gallons that was given to me years ago. Never touched it.

This whole gotta use surfactants deal is a recent fad, and I just don't see the need, especially since most guys are using some form of low volume small droplet application method.

You have got to be kidding me!!!!!

2320,

Surfactants totally have their place when it comes to hard to control weeds or unfavorable environmental conditions. I will admit I rarely use any surfactants in lawn situations, but there are many products that will not work well at all WITHOUT a surfactant.

I interned with DuPont in 1998 and they have a product still on the market today called Accent. We were called out on many complaints on that product and I specifically remember that the cause was NOT USING SURFACTANTS!

If you do not use a surfactant with Glyphosate you will get very little control of Lambsquarter, Velvetleaf and several other weeds.

As far as your comment about you have hard water and still get control...that is not really the issue with surfactants.

When you are looking at "hard water" you are looking at cations and anions (Fe, Ca, etc). Not to get to specific but they can "tie up" the AI in the product.

When you are looking at surfactants you are looking at water tension and trying to spread out the what with AI vs it beading up on the leaf/plant.

I have never seen a correlation of water hardness and water tension so I think you are talking about two different topics.

If you have hard water you would use an AMS or water conditioner and if you want better coverage of the leaf/plant you use a surfactant!

rcreech
11-10-2010, 03:48 PM
You have got to be kidding me!!!!!

2320,

Surfactants totally have their place when it comes to hard to control weeds or unfavorable environmental conditions. I will admit I rarely use any surfactants in lawn situations, but there are many products that will not work well at all WITHOUT a surfactant.

I interned with DuPont in 1998 and they have a product still on the market today called Accent. We were called out on many complaints on that product and I specifically remember that the cause was NOT USING SURFACTANTS!

If you do not use a surfactant with Glyphosate you will get very little control of Lambsquarter, Velvetleaf and several other weeds.

As far as your comment about you have hard water and still get control...that is not really the issue with surfactants.

When you are looking at "hard water" you are looking at cations and anions (Fe, Ca, etc). Not to get to specific but they can "tie up" the AI in the product.

When you are looking at surfactants you are looking at water tension and trying to spread out the what with AI vs it beading up on the leaf/plant.

I have never seen a correlation of water hardness and water tension so I think you are talking about two different topics.

If you have hard water you would use an AMS or water conditioner and if you want better coverage of the leaf/plant you use a surfactant!

Just to clarify...you are looking at Cations in hard water (as the ones I have listed). You add the AMS and the sulfate (SO4-) which is an anion will precipitate out the cation and soften the water. Not sure if anyone would have caught that...but that is what I was trying to say.
:)

fl-landscapes
11-10-2010, 03:51 PM
When is it "very necessary." And if it's only needed when "Very Necessary" why do guys add it every time they load?

some chemicals already have surfactants mixed in them. So you are benefiting from surfactants in your mix whether you add more or not. Some have none.

teejet
11-10-2010, 03:56 PM
I agree surfactants are best left out generally. . I have noticed alot more yellowing of turf when using stickers, especially with high temps. Alittle is good with some drive or sedgehammer, but to much and it really harms cool season turf. Now with round-up or brush killer sufactant all the way, it really helps.

JD2320
11-10-2010, 03:57 PM
I wouldn't know what Lambsquarter or Velvetleaf was if it walked up and hit mt in the nose. I see about six different weeds in my area, and have never used spreader sticker and get awesome control with the exception of mature violets. I also do a lot of roundup applications and get great kill too so, I dunno.
I just don't see the need for it at least on my lawns as the products I do use work well and I can't imagine needing them to work better. If it works for ya'll and you want to add it,that's cool.

RigglePLC
11-10-2010, 03:57 PM
I have always liked surfactants for weed control, (Lesco-wet or Hawkeye for instance), but just starting out, you may not need them. I suspect you will use them when spot spraying, as the cost is very low compared to the cost of the labor. Or the cost or a respray.

Helps to wet the waxy weeds like oxalis. It is best to adjust your spreader or surfactant to the intended target weed. Tougher, waxy or hairy weeds may need more. Too much may be expensive or cause foaming.

Cost is much higher if you use high volume, than if you use low volume, backpack or hand sprayer.

JD2320
11-10-2010, 03:59 PM
some chemicals already have surfactants mixed in them. So you are benefiting from surfactants in your mix whether you add more or not. Some have none.

Oh sure. Like Razorburn has some, Dismiss, and Momentum Q has some. I just think that if they made that big of a difference in three way, it would be in there already.

JD2320
11-10-2010, 04:02 PM
I agree surfactants are best left out generally. . I have noticed alot more yellowing of turf when using stickers, especially with high temps. Alittle is good with some drive or sedgehammer, but to much and it really harms cool season turf. Now with round-up or brush killer sufactant all the way, it really helps.

I may try some with Glyphosate. I notice a slow kill sometimes. Little quicker with Razorburn which has surfactant I believe. Old school guys that chose to use surfactant would ad a little liquid laundry detergent to the mix. No sticker. Sticker in my opinion is better left for tree and shrub foliar applications.

rcreech
11-10-2010, 04:26 PM
I wouldn't know what Lambsquarter or Velvetleaf was if it walked up and hit mt in the nose. I see about six different weeds in my area, and have never used spreader sticker and get awesome control with the exception of mature violets. I also do a lot of roundup applications and get great kill too so, I dunno.
I just don't see the need for it at least on my lawns as the products I do use work well and I can't imagine needing them to work better. If it works for ya'll and you want to add it,that's cool.

Lambsquarter and Velvetleaf are very common weeds in most of the Eastern US and are mostly found in ag situations and new lawns (at the beginning).

Thre reason your "Roundup" works so well is it already has a surfactant in it.

The main differences in the different "41% Roundup" products are surfactants.

If you buy Roundup Orignial or some generics they contain NO surfactants and they don't work well at all!

Again, I am not big on surfactants in the lawn...but they do have their place and are needed.

rcreech
11-10-2010, 04:32 PM
I may try some with Glyphosate. I notice a slow kill sometimes. Little quicker with Razorburn which has surfactant I believe. Old school guys that chose to use surfactant would ad a little liquid laundry detergent to the mix. No sticker. Sticker in my opinion is better left for tree and shrub foliar applications.

Adding surfactant will not increase your kill time. That is more of the rate used, size of weeds and environmental conditions (how fast is the plant growing, temps, moisture etc).

The reason you are seeing a fast kill with Razorburn is it has Diquat in it!

fl-landscapes
11-10-2010, 05:28 PM
I may try some with Glyphosate. I notice a slow kill sometimes. Little quicker with Razorburn which has surfactant I believe. Old school guys that chose to use surfactant would ad a little liquid laundry detergent to the mix. No sticker. Sticker in my opinion is better left for tree and shrub foliar applications.

surfactant is already in it like rceech said, if you want quick burn down add diquat, which is what is in razorburn that causes the quick kill

fl-landscapes
11-10-2010, 05:30 PM
my bad.....looks like rceech already covered this,

Ric
11-10-2010, 06:04 PM
Spreader stickers are not needed with weed control.

What is the old saying?? Oh yes "Ignorances is Bliss"

Agriculture has some interesting terms that apply to all pesticide. They talk about "Loaded" and "Unload" material and as well as Pounds per Gallon of AI instead of Percentage of AI. Therefore Monsanto made Roundup would be called 4 pound loaded material meaning it was loaded with surfactants already. 2-4.D without surfactants might be called 6 pound unloaded Material or 4 pound straight material for either 400 LV or 600 LV (low volatility).

Ric
11-10-2010, 06:22 PM
Adding surfactant will not increase your kill time. That is more of the rate used, size of weeds and environmental conditions (how fast is the plant growing, temps, moisture etc).

The reason you are seeing a fast kill with Razorburn is it has Diquat in it!

RC

I am going to disagree about surfactants NOT decreasing response time. The Surfactant is the spreader sticker that makes the herbicide hold on to the leaves. It might also help burn off the protective wax coating on the leaf so the herbicide is absorbed quicker and Hench give a quicker response time. Surfactants like MSO or LI 700 will decrease response time of herbicide because they are hot enough to help the herbicide penetrate the outer leaf surface. Quicker Up take means faster response.

In the Case of Brown Patch Fungus, For years I got away with one half rate application of Mancozeb because I added LI 700 and turned a contact Fungicide into a systemic. Mancozeb is no longer Legal on the horticulture Turf Market and I lost a very valuable and inexpensive way to cure Brown Patch.

grassman177
11-10-2010, 06:47 PM
i feel this is a very open ended question and you are going to get a serious amount of variation, especially due to different climates and zones on here.

wow, but i will chime in with an answer.

you want to have a pre emergent in early spring(timing is key depending on climate, weeds and product used)
any weed control will work, but others are faster or better than others, trial and error here but a three way and or a few specialty ones for crabgrass and sedges.
also, insectides and or fungicides are needed sometimes, but that is best waited until you know what you will be fighting etc, as it is not always the same thing and all.

ted putnam
11-10-2010, 07:40 PM
When is it "very necessary." And if it's only needed when "Very Necessary" why do guys add it every time they load?

Another blanket statement. I'd liketo see the control you got on wild garlic/onions around here without it. I use manor for control of biahiagrass and virginia buttonweed and the label specifically recommends surfactant. Say a "Hail Mary" and thank you "Lucky Stars" you only have 6 weeds to deal with. I can think of 60 off the top of my head I have to deal with.

nik
11-10-2010, 07:57 PM
Fireman,

I'd get a handle on what you have as far as what weeds you have in your area. Then you an figure on what you need. Glyphosate is probably a good one to have and a 3 way. Seriously, once you know what your dealing with most often you can plan for that.

JD2320
11-10-2010, 08:13 PM
Adding surfactant will not increase your kill time. That is more of the rate used, size of weeds and environmental conditions (how fast is the plant growing, temps, moisture etc).

The reason you are seeing a fast kill with Razorburn is it has Diquat in it!

That's it. I knew I was forgetting something. Thanks. I only used it one time since they were out of regular Glypho.

JD2320
11-10-2010, 08:17 PM
What is the old saying?? Oh yes "Ignorances is Bliss"

Agriculture has some interesting terms that apply to all pesticide. They talk about "Loaded" and "Unload" material and as well as Pounds per Gallon of AI instead of Percentage of AI. Therefore Monsanto made Roundup would be called 4 pound loaded material meaning it was loaded with surfactants already. 2-4.D without surfactants might be called 6 pound unloaded Material or 4 pound straight material for either 400 LV or 600 LV (low volatility).

I don't know what any of that means. I know you're a respected member here and I don't doubt you know what you're doing and saying. All I know is I get control with three way and Momentum FX2 that can't possibly be beat and I never use adjuvants. I also get good control with standard 41% Gly on turf when renovating.

For you guys it may be needed. My experience for me at least is, it is not and I have sprayed a few lawns in my day.

JD2320
11-10-2010, 08:27 PM
RC

I am going to disagree about surfactants NOT decreasing response time. The Surfactant is the spreader sticker that makes the herbicide hold on to the leaves. It might also help burn off the protective wax coating on the leaf so the herbicide is absorbed quicker and Hench give a quicker response time. Surfactants like MSO or LI 700 will decrease response time of herbicide because they are hot enough to help the herbicide penetrate the outer leaf surface. Quicker Up take means faster response.

In the Case of Brown Patch Fungus, For years I got away with one half rate application of Mancozeb because I added LI 700 and turned a contact Fungicide into a systemic. Mancozeb is no longer Legal on the horticulture Turf Market and I lost a very valuable and inexpensive way to cure Brown Patch.


Now that makes some sense to me. If you can lower the needed application rate and get better control, then I am all for it, to keep costs down and being more environmentally friendly, and safer at the same time.

Do you all apply herbicide at a lower rate when you apply surfactant?

JD2320
11-10-2010, 08:31 PM
When is it "very necessary." And if it's only needed when "Very Necessary" why do guys add it every time they load?

Another blanket statement. I'd liketo see the control you got on wild garlic/onions around here without it. I use manor for control of biahiagrass and virginia buttonweed and the label specifically recommends surfactant. Say a "Hail Mary" and thank you "Lucky Stars" you only have 6 weeds to deal with. I can think of 60 off the top of my head I have to deal with.

I don't understand products that are labled for control then tell you that you need to add stuff. That's like me getting a gallon of milk and it saying I need to add my own calcium. If it's needed. Why don't they just add it to the mix. Stuff's basically dirt cheap, and it would make a better product. No?

ted putnam
11-10-2010, 08:52 PM
[QUOTE=ted putnam;3786310]

I don't understand products that are labled for control then tell you that you need to add stuff. That's like me getting a gallon of milk and it saying I need to add my own calcium. If it's needed. Why don't they just add it to the mix. Stuff's basically dirt cheap, and it would make a better product. No?

I use as much or more DG's and DF's as I do L's.At 1/8 tsp/gal, they don't have surfactants added. That is left to the applicator and I seem to have more luck when I follow the label...

JD2320
11-10-2010, 10:02 PM
[QUOTE=JD2320;3786424]

I use as much or more DG's and DF's as I do L's.At 1/8 tsp/gal, they don't have surfactants added. That is left to the applicator and I seem to have more luck when I follow the label...

Again if it makes the product better I don't see why they cant add a surf. Laundry detergent is mostly surfactant so I assume it can be inserted in powder form. I stay as far away from EC's, DG's and flowables as I can. They just mess up my equipment and these days there are always liquid options out there.

rcreech
11-10-2010, 10:57 PM
RC

I am going to disagree about surfactants NOT decreasing response time. The Surfactant is the spreader sticker that makes the herbicide hold on to the leaves. It might also help burn off the protective wax coating on the leaf so the herbicide is absorbed quicker and Hench give a quicker response time. Surfactants like MSO or LI 700 will decrease response time of herbicide because they are hot enough to help the herbicide penetrate the outer leaf surface. Quicker Up take means faster response.

In the Case of Brown Patch Fungus, For years I got away with one half rate application of Mancozeb because I added LI 700 and turned a contact Fungicide into a systemic. Mancozeb is no longer Legal on the horticulture Turf Market and I lost a very valuable and inexpensive way to cure Brown Patch.

Ric,

If you look at what I state earlier in this post...yes, surfactants can enhance product performance especially when prescribed by the label!

I have stated that!

In the case of the 2320 is saying is...he said he is seeing a slow kill with Roundup. It already contains surfactant and adding more isn't going to help.

It is the AI that kills the weed, not the surfactant.

As a side note...I also wholesale chemicals to on the ag side and with the cost of surfactants vs the cost the Glyphoste...it is usually cheaper to increase the AI rate vs adding a surfactant. Think about it...would you rather spend $1 on surfactant... or $1 on the AI that contains surfactant?

Think about it!


I don't necessarily agree with Ric's statement of decreasing the amount of AI just due to adding surfactant.

It is the DOSE that makes the POISION.

That is one reason we are running into weed resistance here. People cut back on rates and weeds have built up tolerance. ALWAYS use the labeled rates and INCLUDE the surfactant as RECCOMMENDED!

rcreech
11-10-2010, 11:00 PM
[QUOTE=ted putnam;3786310]

I don't understand products that are labled for control then tell you that you need to add stuff. That's like me getting a gallon of milk and it saying I need to add my own calcium. If it's needed. Why don't they just add it to the mix. Stuff's basically dirt cheap, and it would make a better product. No?

Most products on the market required surfactants, COC, SBO, AMS and other additions.

You used the milk analogy...so I guess I will use the Pancake analogy.

Why do you need to add water to pancake mix? It is what it is! :)

Just follow the label and you will be fine!

Ric
11-10-2010, 11:06 PM
Ric,

If you look at what I state earlier in this post...yes, surfactants can enhance product performance especially when prescribed by the label!

I have stated that!

In the case of the 2320 is saying is...he said he is seeing a slow kill with Roundup. It already contains surfactant and adding more isn't going to help.

It is the AI that kills the weed, not the surfactant.

As a side note...I also wholesale chemicals to on the ag side and with the cost of surfactants vs the cost the Glyphoste...it is usually cheaper to increase the AI rate vs adding a surfactant. Think about it...would you rather spend $1 on surfactant... or $1 on the AI that contains surfactant?

Think about it!


I don't necessarily agree with Ric's statement of decreasing the amount of AI just due to adding surfactant.

It is the DOSE that makes the POISION.

That is one reason we are running into weed resistance here. People cut back on rates and weeds have built up tolerance. ALWAYS use the labeled rates and INCLUDE the surfactant as RECCOMMENDED!

RC

OK I bad and didn't read everything you wrote.

But as for the bold print above. Not all pesticides can be applied at a lower rate because of surfactants. However Surfactants make the chemical work better and with them it would take a lot more chemical. The general rule is read the label and follow it.

rcreech
11-10-2010, 11:08 PM
RC

OK I bad and didn't read everything you wrote.

But as for the bold print above. Not all pesticides can be applied at a lower rate because of surfactants. However Surfactants make the chemical work better and with them it would take a lot more chemical. The general rule is read the label and follow it.


No problem!

I Totally agree!
:)

fireman1317
11-11-2010, 09:04 PM
Thanks for all the great replies and the very entertaining banter. What I see the most in my area is Crabgrass, dandelion, and couple others that I still need to identify.

Back to another part of my question. I realize that you can get fert with pre in it. Is using that with hand or backpack sprayers with spot treatments going to give me results or am I better off not offering any treatment plans until I get a skid or ride on sprayer? I hope that makes sense.


:usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag:

cgaengineer
11-11-2010, 09:06 PM
Thanks for all the great replies and the very entertaining banter. What I see the most in my area is Crabgrass, dandelion, and couple others that I still need to identify.

Back to another part of my question. I realize that you can get fert with pre in it. Is using that with hand or backpack sprayers with spot treatments going to give me results or am I better off not offering any treatment plans until I get a skid or ride on sprayer? I hope that makes sense.


:usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag::usflag:

If you have a fan teejet and your backpack is calibrated it will make no difference in how its applied.
Posted via Mobile Device

greendoctor
11-12-2010, 01:21 AM
I may try some with Glyphosate. I notice a slow kill sometimes. Little quicker with Razorburn which has surfactant I believe. Old school guys that chose to use surfactant would ad a little liquid laundry detergent to the mix. No sticker. Sticker in my opinion is better left for tree and shrub foliar applications.
Well said
The proper use of a true sticker is for non systemic pesticides that must stay on leaf or stem tissue without washing off. If someone says sticker, I am immediately thinking Latron B1956, Nufilm-P, or Bond. The property of a sticker is that it will create a film that the pesticide is held in. However, that film does not lend itself to enhancing systemic absorbtion of chemicals through leaves.

Selecting the right type of surfactant is determined by what product and what conditions are the application taking place under. I use a lot of both old and new chemistry against weeds that are often hardened off. Depending on what I am spraying, it might be a plain nonionic surfactant, an acidifying surfactant, or an MSO/lecithin surfactant. Stickers are for when I am applying mancozeb or copper to ornamentals.

Ric
11-12-2010, 04:51 PM
Well said
The proper use of a true sticker is for non systemic pesticides that must stay on leaf or stem tissue without washing off. If someone says sticker, I am immediately thinking Latron B1956, Nufilm-P, or Bond. The property of a sticker is that it will create a film that the pesticide is held in. However, that film does not lend itself to enhancing systemic absorbtion of chemicals through leaves.

Selecting the right type of surfactant is determined by what product and what conditions are the application taking place under. I use a lot of both old and new chemistry against weeds that are often hardened off. Depending on what I am spraying, it might be a plain nonionic surfactant, an acidifying surfactant, or an MSO/lecithin surfactant. Stickers are for when I am applying mancozeb or copper to ornamentals.

Greendoctor

I hate to get in an argument with you, BUT.

Are we talking Spreader-Stickers or all Surfactants??? I can Guarantee you the surfactants LI 700 or Level 7 will increase systemic absorbsion. It is not that you use a surfactant but that you use the Correct surfactant with the Correct pesticide.

In the case of Certainty in a tank mix. LI 700 would be the wrong surfactant because it acidify the carrier. Level 7 is a better choice because it doesn't change the pH.

fl-landscapes
11-12-2010, 05:21 PM
Greendoctor

I hate to get in an argument with you, BUT.

Are we talking Spreader-Stickers or all Surfactants??? I can Guarantee you the surfactants LI 700 or Level 7 will increase systemic absorbsion. It is not that you use a surfactant but that you use the Correct surfactant with the Correct pesticide.

In the case of Certainty in a tank mix. LI 700 would be the wrong surfactant because it acidify the carrier. Level 7 is a better choice because it doesn't change the pH.

rutrow george...this could be the epic battle of lawnsite giants:weightlifter:

greendoctor
11-13-2010, 12:59 AM
Yes, I am referring to spreader stickers such as Nufilm, Latron or Plyac. The reason why I have LI700, MSO and a neutral nonionic surfactant with me at all times is for the very reason you stated. Right surfactant for the right pesticide. BTW, the MSO is used when I have a tank of Certainty going down or any of the other sulfonylurea herbicides that I apply. I know not to ever put LI700 in with any sulfonylurea herbicides. Acids degrade those products quickly. On the other hand, LI700 is good for diquat, glyphosate, amine herbicides, Orthene, pyrethroids and mancozeb.

rcreech
11-13-2010, 08:33 AM
Does the MSO burn the turf at all?

I would think that COC would be a little safer?

Still have to watch the temps on both.

I only product that I ever add a NIS to is Drive and we don't use much of it at all.
We don't even carry any surfactants or any additives on our trucks.

Ric
11-13-2010, 09:35 AM
Does the MSO burn the turf at all?

I would think that COC would be a little safer?

Still have to watch the temps on both.

I only product that I ever add a NIS to is Drive and we don't use much of it at all.
We don't even carry any surfactants or any additives on our trucks.

RC

If it is hot enough MSO will fry the tips of the blade. One maybe two mowing and you are totally green again. One secret with MSO is to not over mix it. a quart to the hundred and no more. That is 1/3 oz to the gallon.

fl-landscapes
11-13-2010, 04:59 PM
Does the MSO burn the turf at all?

I would think that COC would be a little safer?

Still have to watch the temps on both.

I only product that I ever add a NIS to is Drive and we don't use much of it at all.
We don't even carry any surfactants or any additives on our trucks.

celsius actually says on its label "for maximum weed control with brodcast applications add non ionic surfactant or mso at recommended rates to spray solution"