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View Full Version : New Product called Holganix. Can someone confirm.


replenish&subdue
11-11-2010, 02:48 PM
The product includes Compost tea (derived from humates,plant compost,sea shells,selected yeasts,algae,mycorrhizae),High Frustose corn syrup 55,Age Old Soluble Mycorrhizae,Mollasses, Yucca,and Tea tree oil.
They say it is compatible with several chemical;s that they mention and tested. It can reduce herbacide rates,reduce fungus and disease naturally,reduce need for lime.
What is different I see is the ability to mix with a chemical program,not so expensive,reduce chemical costs (for example it opens the stomata more so 2-4D can be reduced 15-20% rate,no need to add surfactants) and it probably will help in less fungus problems as well as add microbes to soil.
And then that nitrates and phosphates can be reduced they say up to 90%.
Well,I hope someone more apt can tell if it is a product worth considering. I meet them at the Turf expo in Louisville.Seems like he has put years (26 yrs. if not mistaken in developing it.

Kiril
11-11-2010, 04:32 PM
IMO, Looks to me like just another "miracle" organic product that has no hope of ever substantiating the claims it makes.

ICT Bill
11-11-2010, 05:23 PM
I knew there was a place we could use high fructose corn syrup

I've never used it and could not comment

turf hokie
11-11-2010, 05:54 PM
I was given a package of information regarding their products.

I was not impressed, IMHO, based on the literature and marketing plan, they do not come off as reputable. Major errors just in spelling etc in the booklet. I figure if they cant spell what they are selling then how good can it really be?

It appears that they are trying to market an all natural approach but are selling no more than a bridge program, I dont appreciate when someone markets all natural fertilizers, save the earth etc and then tell you to use 2-4d, dimension, etc.

I have not tried it, nor will I, just based on the marketing info I was given, very unprofessional and not impressed at all.

I agree with Kiril....2x in a week....uh-oh.:waving:

replenish&subdue
11-11-2010, 06:09 PM
If (time may tell) they do work with chemicals it could be a worthy product.
I am settled for now that until the organic side comes out with a better,affordable,practical alternative than corn glutton for a pre-emerge than I will continue to include in my "organic" plus program the chemical prodiamine. I don't think we should so quickly throw out the baby with the bath water.
I have asked some whom I know some of you regard as highly respected organic turf specialists the question,"What harmful effect does Prodiamine have on the soil,environment or people?" and they simply don't have an answer.
As for my lawn,I will be going on my third year in the deep south without chemicals and a practically weed free lawn.(corn glutten and green guardian)
I use a lot of cotton burr compost spread with an earth and turf topdresser on my clients,plus the organic sprays(tea,seaweed,...).
I no longer treat for fungus with fungicides but sucessfully cure rust,brown path and even fairy ring. The exception is for the first time since doing this work (1989) have a yard with Take All Patch and because the quick devastating nature used Headway.
Soo,I hope not everyone comes by only to take a punch at Holganix,although I understand Kiril's point and respect her opinion above most.

starry night
11-11-2010, 09:25 PM
........... I understand Kiril's point and respect her opinion above most.

A lot has been said about Kiril but I think this is a first. :laugh:

starry night
11-11-2010, 09:33 PM
re and sub: So are you using pre-emergent on your own lawn? I don't like pre in any form (even corn gluten) applied in Spring because I believe it inhibits root growth of the grass plants at a time when they should be optimizing growth. A thick stand of grass prevents most weeds.


Edit: Sorry I notice that you do use corn gluten on your own lawn. So do you use it on customer's lawns?

replenish&subdue
11-11-2010, 10:14 PM
I have a bermuda and zoysia lawn and use corn glutten in the spring.With bermuda especially it is hardly possible to control grassy weeds in the south where the summers are hotter/longer and if you do even in zoysia it is because all of the conditions are right.I am surprised myself the control I have with the corn glutten.
I don't use it on my customers because it is not practical to apply,it is expensive and not effective without the soil first being conditioned and even then takes two or three years before reaches optimum.
On the organic only lawns I have used green guardian which brought excellent results (topdressed also with cotton burr compost) but I made a math calculation error and realized it is too expensive. My "organic" customers are all ok with me now(started in fall) use two pre-m's a year.

starry night
11-11-2010, 10:54 PM
My mistake in not noticing you were in the South. From what I've read here on Lawnsite, it seems the southern grasses are more problematic than my cool season grasses. But then maybe I'm just more familiar with northern conditions
and take their challenges for granted,

replenish&subdue
11-11-2010, 11:14 PM
That is the point I failed to make. Fescue and zoysia yards are easier to maintain organically. I do about 100 tall fescue yards here and that is because the area I service has a lot of trees.Most of my yards are bermuda/zoysia. We just don't grow fescue in the sun like they can do in Nashville,Kentucky on up.Our summers have relentless day and night temps. and our summers last longer. You also have to look hard to find anywhere to get NOFA points around here to keep your certificate (if you know what I mean). I see organic companies come and go in the same year. I feel I have found a balance that works but sorry to say it is not cool with organic head people up north.
We can work around phosphorus and 2-4D but we need our Pre-M.

ICT Bill
11-12-2010, 09:58 AM
Application #1

Timeframe: March 1-May 15
Services: Fertilization & Pre-emergent
Products: Holganix(TM) & Barricade
Application #2

Timeframe: May 15-July 15
Services: Fertilization, Insect, Weed & Disease Prevention
Products: Holganix(TM), Merit & Strike 3
Application #3

Timeframe: July 15- September 15
Services: Fertilization, Insect, Weed & Disease Prevention
Products: Holganix(TM) & Merit
Application #4

Timeframe: September 15-November 20
Services: Fertilization, Insect, Weed & Disease
Products: Holganix(TM) & Strike 3
Upsell Opportunities

Flea & Tick
Perimeter Pest
Core Aeration and Seeding

Looks like a pesticide program to me, just go to lesco/JD probably much cheaper and with strike 3 specific to certain turf and zone

starry night
11-12-2010, 11:00 AM
re and sub: Their Holganix ingredients, at least the ones you listed, are available in many other products and also available individually. So there are two qustions: 1) what is the cost of their product? and 2) do they have some miracle ingredient not available elsewhere?

replenish&subdue
11-12-2010, 06:32 PM
I wonder how tea can be mixed with so many chemicals

starry night
11-12-2010, 07:18 PM
In case you guys missed it today, someone from the company under the username "Holganix" posted this afternoon. His post and my reply have been deleted. I guess he must not have signed up as a sponsor.

replenish&subdue
11-12-2010, 07:52 PM
I hope he comes on board to validate his product. He deserves his day in court.

starry night
11-12-2010, 10:01 PM
He made some claims for his product and I suggested that on this forum he would be asked for some independent study to validate those claims.

replenish&subdue
11-12-2010, 10:25 PM
That's right, and I hope he can log in and show such support. If he has indeed done his research then we look into it. Maybe there is a new product that is helpful to us org.heads.

starry night
11-12-2010, 10:29 PM
I'm always looking for new and better. I'm just skeptical of "do-all" commercial products. It's hard to do better than just high-quality compost.

Kiril
11-13-2010, 10:13 AM
He made some claims for his product and I suggested that on this forum he would be asked for some independent study to validate those claims.

Just look at the claims made on the website and it all becomes clear what a stretch they are. I see many of these new "organic" products making claims based on what is in the product, not the product itself. These products at times will use credible studies that are not in any way related to the product, misinterpret and misrepresent them, and incorrectly assume that if A leads to C, and A is contained within B, then B also leads to C. :nono:

starry night
11-13-2010, 02:15 PM
......and incorrectly assume that if A leads to C, and A is contained within B, then B also leads to C. :nono:

Yes, I agree with Kiril, and that was what I said in another post: that we already know that some of his ingredients are useful. But, who knows about throwing them altogether in a witch's brew? And is the amount used of each ingredient significant in the whole? And what are the infamous "proprietary ingredients"?

ant
11-13-2010, 05:30 PM
http://aquariusirrigation.com/training_holganix.asp

turf hokie
11-13-2010, 09:37 PM
Application #1

Timeframe: March 1-May 15
Services: Fertilization & Pre-emergent
Products: Holganix(TM) & Barricade
Application #2

Timeframe: May 15-July 15
Services: Fertilization, Insect, Weed & Disease Prevention
Products: Holganix(TM), Merit & Strike 3
Application #3

Timeframe: July 15- September 15
Services: Fertilization, Insect, Weed & Disease Prevention
Products: Holganix(TM) & Merit
Application #4

Timeframe: September 15-November 20
Services: Fertilization, Insect, Weed & Disease
Products: Holganix(TM) & Strike 3
Upsell Opportunities

Flea & Tick
Perimeter Pest
Core Aeration and Seeding

Looks like a pesticide program to me, just go to lesco/JD probably much cheaper and with strike 3 specific to certain turf and zone

I agree, and this is where I have a real issue with the marketing. The following is cut and pasted from the website that Ant linked above....how do you claim the following and then put all of the above chemicals in the program.

"All other plant and lawn care companies claim to be safe for the environment, although they continue to fertilize using traditional chemical based products and synthetic pesticides. Holganix™ has developed and uses its own proprietary Natural Organic fertilizer that is not "Man Made" and in most cases is a food grade edible product that feeds your plants and lawn naturally. This system creates a balance between urban environments and Mother Nature"

Just sayin....

rhartogs
06-13-2011, 02:11 PM
Hello Forum,

as a homeowner and yard enthusiast (not a business owner), I signed up today to post this reply.

I have started using Holganix this year, and if you all are interested, I can post my experience with the product as time goes on.

After years of unsuccessfully messing around with various organic products (primarily corn gluten meal) with even more varying results, I decided to contract a local company to apply Holganix to my 0.3acre patch, four times a year.

I agree with you all on the hyped-up marketing speak: it did not really convince me much either. But they pointed me to a local shopping center where they have been taking care of the grass with Holganix, and it looks beautiful. Since the (introduction) price of the contract was about the same per year as what I had been buying and spreading myself, I decided to give it a try.

Results so far:
The first application in April successfully killed all the dandelions and they have not come back. A second application was done last week. Keeping my fingers crossed I will have less/no crab-grass this year.

Let me know if I should continue posting.
Otherwise, feel free to boot me off this forum.

Green greetings,

Ruben

DUSTYCEDAR
07-15-2011, 01:00 AM
rhartogs take some pics of your lawn and let us see how well things r going.

ted putnam
07-15-2011, 11:20 AM
rhartogs take some pics of your lawn and let us see how well things r going.

Agreed....Pictures can speak volumes.

ted putnam
07-15-2011, 12:45 PM
Ummm, not much info on the website ant posted a link to. It must really be "top secret".

DUSTYCEDAR
09-08-2011, 12:21 AM
oh well no pics yet
maby some will come soon

Harley-D
09-08-2011, 10:17 AM
I'm not holding my breath on those pics Dusty. Maybe he had crabgrass breakthru! Haha. The general public seem to act like lemmings when it comes to lawn care marketing. I can't believe people won't do research and look into things before they spend their money. Darwin was dead wrong, society is getting dumber.

DUSTYCEDAR
09-03-2012, 01:54 PM
anyone? ? ?

Duekster
09-03-2012, 01:59 PM
I'm not holding my breath on those pics Dusty. Maybe he had crabgrass breakthru! Haha. The general public seem to act like lemmings when it comes to lawn care marketing. I can't believe people won't do research and look into things before they spend their money. Darwin was dead wrong, society is getting dumber.

Smart people think too much before having children.

turf hokie
09-03-2012, 08:42 PM
I am trying it....I know, I know even after my previous posts....

One of my sales reps jumped ship and after speaking with him and meeting with one of the owner of Holganix. I get a better perspective on the product and saw first hand what the issues were with the initial exposure I had with the product were.

I dont have pics, but I could give you pics of lawns that are perfect and lawns that are a mess, both on the same program. As I am sure most of you could as well....

I want to get thru the whole season before I start commenting on the pros and cons etc....

But I have over 200 houses that have holganix being used on them, that being said, I am mixing it with N, started the year with urea, but switched to a liquid slow release this round, I hate having a 200 gallon tank full of mixed fert and I got tired of melting the urea, I like to mix on the on the fly. It gives me more flexibity when I get to each stop. I am also using my regular weed controls, but at their recommended reduced rates, but spot treating out of hand sprayers as much as I can.

I will report back when I am comfortable with what I have/have not seen. I have formed some opinions already....

Hopefully I am not the only one out there trying it.

replenish&subdue
09-03-2012, 09:02 PM
I have been using Holganix this year up to now where i switched to SumaGreen for the purpose of comparing. I have about 300 lawns that I treated it on 3 applications. I also used SumaGreen on shrubs mixed with insecticide. I too will have a report after the dust settles and I can see the results.

DUSTYCEDAR
12-01-2012, 02:01 PM
how did it all work out?

Duekster
12-02-2012, 08:50 AM
Sounds like waste from a beverage bottler with a few items tossed in to make it sound like it was custom made for the garden.

replenish&subdue
12-03-2012, 10:24 PM
I used Holganix this year in combination with the second pre-emerge in April and two of my fertilizations. My third fertilizer I used SumaGreen and also used SumaGreen on some newly seeded fescue lawns. Most of my lawns are zoysia then bermuda then fescue.
I also used Holganix on my shrub sprays combined with insecticide.
Our area experienced the worst drought since I don't know when but certainly since I moved here in 1989.
I am confident Holganix is a good product. My customers shrubs were noticeably healthier and that in a stressful year. Holganix also kept up on the lawns with the exception of some which I went back to apply Lesco fertilizer but they were few among the many. Since it is an organic product there will be that hit and miss due mainly to soil health. Know that I added a small amount of nitrogen and a product called StayN to keep the nitrogen from dissipating. I didn't lose money although Holganix is expensive because I combined treatments allowing less labor costs. I also reduced chemical,pre-emerge use by 30% and urea by 80%.
I had the most disease in zoysia this year due to shallow watering plus drought and overwatering. Most of my customers have irrigation. I thought Holganix would aid in preventing disease but I learned I would need to double the rate from 7oz to 14 oz per 1000. I also kept my rates low and should of notched it up a couple of ounces.
I am not sure if I will use Holganix next year. SumaGreen ,I just was not impressed. It is half the cost of Holganix ( I think) but Holganix has 23 or so other ingredients whereas SumaGreen just has a zillon microbes. You can correct me on that if I am wrong. But it is my observation frankly I have been so busy this year I had little time or mind to do an accurate evaluation.
Keep in mind Holganix needs frigeration hey supplied me with a commercial size refrigerator. The Holganix people were easy to work with although the sales rep. did most of the work for them.
Holganix may be one of those products that if you keep in your program, there will be good results over time.
Since I started using and learning about biological products I have become a little burnt out with all the avenues it takes you. I would like to just keep it simple and maybe continue using Holganix with it's reduction in chemicals & nitrogen and offer compost topdressing and compost tea as extra services. It will not address and correct every soil properly but it beats NPK and the whole hog chemical approach. If a serious deficiency develops then it can be addressed.

rusty2
01-20-2013, 09:39 PM
We are looking at adding Holganix to our line. I would be careful with any Nitrogen inhibitor. I am not familiar with Stay-N but I know you can't use UMAXX or UFLEXX with Holganix. They contain a bacterial inhibitor. Holganix is full of bacteria. You don't want to stop them.
It looks like to us we can reduce our chemical inputs and get quality lawns for the same cost as conventional methods. We haven't seen a true organic program that works in our area yet. We hope this can build into that eventually.
Rusty

replenish&subdue
01-20-2013, 11:23 PM
I will see if Stay-N has any effect on bacteria. My Holganix sales rep.was the one who introduced it to me.
It would sure be easier to pour on the synthetic and go whole hog on the chemicals but I choose the coarse to reverse the damage it has caused. I hope some better products are developed,discovered to prevent and rid weeds without chemicals. I find pre-emerges hurt the roots.

Smallaxe
01-22-2013, 01:00 PM
We are looking at adding Holganix to our line. I would be careful with any Nitrogen inhibitor. I am not familiar with Stay-N but I know you can't use UMAXX or UFLEXX with Holganix. They contain a bacterial inhibitor. Holganix is full of bacteria. You don't want to stop them. ...
Rusty

What sort of bacterial inhibitor is there in the UMAXX and UFLEXX??? I've never seen that before... :)

TurfNut
01-24-2013, 03:15 AM
My Experience with Holganix

I went to the seminar in 2011 and listened to the presentation. Overall I would say I have an above average knowledge in soil science. I was not real impressed on their unique selling position of save the world with our product, and by the way you can add pre-m,merit,talstar,3way, etc.

I did get a quart sample to try out at my home for my landscaping plants. This was enough to treat my beds about 3 times at 6-oz/1000. My plants are well maintained and was difficult to see a big improvement. However, I do feel that all the good mychorrhizae and bacterias did help suppress disease.

For the cost and the fact it needs to sit shotgun next to my beer in fridge, I never ordered.

I had good success in 2012 with, Bills ICT product on some postage stamp lawns in one developement. Liked his product it was a compact kit and could just sit on my shelf in shop. I used the ICT in a hybrid granular/liquid program and did very well considering the drought. Also my cost per k was half of Holganix :clapping:

Ed

Smallaxe
01-24-2013, 08:46 AM
My Experience with Holganix

I went to the seminar in 2011 and listened to the presentation. Overall I would say I have an above average knowledge in soil science. I was not real impressed on their unique selling position of save the world with our product, and by the way you can add pre-m,merit,talstar,3way, etc.

I did get a quart sample to try out at my home for my landscaping plants. This was enough to treat my beds about 3 times at 6-oz/1000. My plants are well maintained and was difficult to see a big improvement. However, I do feel that all the good mychorrhizae and bacterias did help suppress disease.

For the cost and the fact it needs to sit shotgun next to my beer in fridge, I never ordered.

I had good success in 2012 with, Bills ICT product on some postage stamp lawns in one developement. Liked his product it was a compact kit and could just sit on my shelf in shop. I used the ICT in a hybrid granular/liquid program and did very well considering the drought. Also my cost per k was half of Holganix :clapping:

Ed

So it sounds as though the main ingredient to Holganix, is the bacteria, which is no different than the bacteria in a lot of other mixes... The second most important ingredient is the sales pitch, which includes propaganda about bacteria inhibitors in other fertilizers???

I got no response to the UMAXX and UFLEXX question... Since a healthy supply of microbes are necessary for plants to consume the nutrients that are in the soil, one would expect that the long term goal would be to build the soil, with sustainable populations...

TurfNut
01-25-2013, 08:41 AM
Posted via Mobile Device

TurfNut
01-25-2013, 08:52 AM
The Holganix product appeared to have a a lot of good benificial actives in it. When you look at the percentages of bacillius subtilis etc, they are about the same as a lot of products. When I scanned the msds , they buy a component of yeast from bud beer. I feel the product has merit in a overall fertility program. That is how I approach Bio stimulants etc. My program includes fertilization plus Bio stimulants and organic matter.

The good thing when talking with the holganix folks, they do know there stuff. The owner built a multi million lawn Co. The other dude has several degrees in agronomy etc.

Just remember we will never find a fixall product in the green industry, but some products can compliment and improve upon what we already have in place.

Ed
Posted via Mobile Device

turf hokie
01-26-2013, 01:14 PM
I tried it out on a small scale in 2011, (free sample). It didnt make a noticeable difference one way or the other, but I gave it a larger shot in 2012 (250 accounts, 1.5 million sq ft) since at the very least I could cut my pesticide rates and save time by not having to clean up granular off hard surfaces.

General application differences:
Liquid is so much easier, no clean up, no mess...

I can change my rates etc from one lawn to the next because I can custom mix on site and I am not locked into a pallet of this or a pallet of that....

Holganix observations (nothing scientific)

It smells nice :drinkup:

ok serious

These lawns were irrigated as are 95% of the lawns we treat.

as far as irrigation (I did not have them change anything from what they normally do) and they definately held their color better than normal in July and August

The lawns also held color better over the summer than comparable lawns treated with scu granular.

We also let 9 and almost 10 weeks go on some of our accounts between our late spring and fall apps (mostly because of weather and a little bit of poor scheduling on my part) but it ended up being a good test as the lawns looked as good if not better than the ones that had been serviced on regular schedule with scu.

Lawns that have filtered sun or seemed to struggle over the past few years showed an increase in color and density. To the point of the client asking what we did different in some cases.

We were able to reduce our rate of herbicide by roughly 50%, imidicloprid by 25% (and we will reduce to 50% this year) We switched from Dythiopyr to Barricade, so we went with one app instead of the 2 we had done previously. Found we go better results on crabgrass control, we used almost no post crab grass, (but I attribute alot of that to using a liquid and getting better coverage on edges)

I did a blanket post emergent broadleaf, the reasoning behind that (I know it goes against IPM etc) but I figured that if I cut my herbicide rate in 1/2, I could blanket one time and cut out a lot of spot treating. By cutting out the spot treating I saved time, but also ended up using less herbicide over the course of the year. It also cut down on weed complaints as well.

I ended up saving money on product, time on the jobs, a ton of warehouse space, and I felt that the lawns ended up looking better as well.

I know many of you dont like the idea of the refrigeration or dont have a warehouse to keep the fridge, but I would say dont let that be the only deterent.

The support I have been given has been awesome, from my sales rep, to the local vendor up to the owners. They have helped every step of the way, making me comfortable with the product, helping get my equipment changed from granular to liquid, marketing and just general business help whenever I have a question.

I guess the best endorsement I can give is this:
Next month I am trading in my fridge for a bulk tank with a rapid fill system. This system will meter out the Holganix and allow me to load water into my trucks at 60gpm, also metered. (my warehouse has no water pressure or volume and it takes 45 minutes to fill 200 gall)

Also, let me add, I am not selling an "organic program" we are selling organic based, "the best of both worlds" so to speak. My customers seem to want the Yankee stadium look but want to feel good that we are reducing our inputs. So this system fits that bill.

Let me know if anybody has any questions that I might have missed addressing above.

Bryan

Smallaxe
01-27-2013, 11:23 AM
What is the connection between Holganix and Herbicide???

Is there an explanation or is it something that just seems to happen???

Smallaxe
01-27-2013, 11:24 AM
I'm referencing the story about reduced Herbicide usage... :)

turf hokie
01-28-2013, 04:00 PM
What is the connection between Holganix and Herbicide???

Is there an explanation or is it something that just seems to happen???

See the answer below, it is direct from my sales rep.

1. Essential Oils open the pores in the weeds. This in turn means more product enters the plant so you need less to control.

2. Our compost tea contains organic Auxins. Dicamba which is a component of three way type herbicides is a synthetic Auxin or growth regulator. When you combine the two you get a synergistic result.

3. Sugars in our product increase the elasticity of the pre-emergent barrier.


Reduction in usage is not seen in all pesticides.

Skipster
01-28-2013, 04:45 PM
See the answer below, it is direct from my sales rep.

1. Essential Oils open the pores in the weeds. This in turn means more product enters the plant so you need less to control.

2. Our compost tea contains organic Auxins. Dicamba which is a component of three way type herbicides is a synthetic Auxin or growth regulator. When you combine the two you get a synergistic result.

3. Sugars in our product increase the elasticity of the pre-emergent barrier.


Reduction in usage is not seen in all pesticides.

These are really far-fetched claims and don't make sense from a plant physiology perspective.

Ask your sales rep for the peer reviewed university research data backing his assertions. If he can't give you any, then the claims are nothing more than hot air.

Smallaxe
01-28-2013, 06:41 PM
See the answer below, it is direct from my sales rep.

1. Essential Oils open the pores in the weeds. This in turn means more product enters the plant so you need less to control.

2. Our compost tea contains organic Auxins. Dicamba which is a component of three way type herbicides is a synthetic Auxin or growth regulator. When you combine the two you get a synergistic result.

3. Sugars in our product increase the elasticity of the pre-emergent barrier.


Reduction in usage is not seen in all pesticides.

Thanks for the response,,, definately something to consider...

Spraying weeds with open pores is definately better than closed pores, so that could make sense... I would think 'Timing" would be an issue, however...

The interaction between auxins and Dicamba is something that I'd have to research... As I recall, Dicamba was one element especially effective on Creeping Charlie, so perhaps I should research 'auxins'...

The "Elasticity" of the pre-m barrier is something that indicates that the "Barrier" is a real physical barrier created by the pre-m... Of course there is no such barrier in that sense, only the dissolved AI spread evenly across the surface of the soil, hoping to be ingested by as many germinating seeds as possible...

turf hokie
01-28-2013, 08:59 PM
These are really far-fetched claims and don't make sense from a plant physiology perspective.

Ask your sales rep for the peer reviewed university research data backing his assertions. If he can't give you any, then the claims are nothing more than hot air.

Ahh, you organic guys and your peer reviewed studies.....

The claims are not especially far fetched when I have seen it in the field on my own accounts, but here this might hold you over until I can get my hands on more information.

http://www.holganix.com/science/university-studies/

Smallaxe
01-29-2013, 09:11 AM
I like this article,,, well written and concise...

* "Penn State researchers observed that the addition of Holganix to a herbicide improved control of white clover. They also found that using Holganix decreased the amount of herbicide needed by 66% to produce the same post-emergence clover control. The Purdue study showed that the addition of Holganix to a herbicide produced encouraging results for broadleaf plantain suppression, decreasing the need for a herbicide by 75%. Dr. Neidermyer reports, “Of interest, Holganix alone provided suppression of both dandelion and buckhorn plantain.” *

This last comment about Holganix alone suppressing dandelions and buckthorn plantain, has my interest now... Is this explained by the Auxins in Holganix??? I'm assuming that Dr. Neidermeyer is legit, but a more detailed report on his "reasoning" would be good... :)

Triton37
01-29-2013, 12:46 PM
This kind of feedback is what I was looking for. Thanks Bryan. I will plan on sampling it this year to see for ourselves. My concern is that we have been using Naturesafe organics at .8# rates/ 1000 so our properties look great but that has come with a cost of about $1.89/1000. Looks like with Holganix we will see $1.10/1000 costs and also save time on cleanup which could be huge. But what if there is a noticed reduction in quality between this transition that the client experiences? This is where we can only know by practicing with it. It's not like this is Imprellis or another DuPont product.

rusty2
01-29-2013, 03:47 PM
Smallaxe,
Sorry for the delay in my reply. I wasn't watching this thread. Umaxx contains a urease enzyme inhibitor and dicyandiamide a nitrification bacterium inhibitor. Holganix advised me not to use these types of products with theirs. Holganix adds bacteria to the soil and encourages microbial activity and anything that would decrease bacterial activity should not be used. They believe that other bacteria may be inhibited by the dicyandiamide as well so they want to leave it out.
Rusty

Triton37
01-29-2013, 03:57 PM
>Turf Hokie. Bryan, do you guys use Z-sprays or just pull hoses for the Holganix applications?:weightlifter:

Smallaxe
01-29-2013, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the reply... my search on 'dicyandiamide', has led me to this about Agrotain in which dicyandiamide is one of three methods of stabilizing urea...

* "Agrotain is both a company name and a product name. Agrotain International makes ag products that protect urea fertilizer from loss." *


* "If urea is incorporated, the ammonia is converted to ammonium and will be retained in the soil. But if the urea is left on the surface, much of the ammonia will be lost to the atmosphere." *

So if I'm understanding this correctly, the technology in Holganix , may or may not be the same as one of the Agrotain technologies, but the possibility of these technologies interfering with one another is an issue...

Anyways we now have some science that is giving us hope that we are dealing with something real... We all tend to think Snake Oil when some of these products are announced... maybe not this time... :)

rusty2
01-29-2013, 06:27 PM
Not exactly, the technology in Holganix is completely the opposite of the one in the Agrotain products (Hydrexx, Umaxx and Uflexx).

Holganix contains bacteria (along with many other things) that are able to make nitrogen available in the soil and the Agrotain products contain a material that inhibits bacteria from doing their jobs in the soil (breaking down urea to make it available).

The possibility of them interfering with each other is almost 100%.

I agree with the last statement. We have been analyzing this product for over a year. It shows promise. I like the way they are positioning it as a bridge product that can reduce other chemicals being used and not a cure all. We are going to try it in a bigger way this year. Did some tests last fall that looked good.
Rusty

turf hokie
01-29-2013, 07:08 PM
>Turf Hokie. Bryan, do you guys use Z-sprays or just pull hoses for the Holganix applications?:weightlifter:

Using a z max and in the process of setting up an intermediate.
They are the only way to go. Others may argue that it is faster to pull hose on some lawns but my max is set up with a lawn gun and 100 ft of hose so I can get just about anywhere with the max.

Biggest reason I would say is I am not really any more tired on the last lawn as opposed to when I started out pulling hose, my production steadily declined over the course of the day. I can easily double my production with the z vs pulling hose

I am setting up the intermediate b/c I found it locally and felt it was a good deal so I grabbed it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Smallaxe
01-30-2013, 04:49 PM
Not exactly, the technology in Holganix is completely the opposite of the one in the Agrotain products (Hydrexx, Umaxx and Uflexx).

Holganix contains bacteria (along with many other things) that are able to make nitrogen available in the soil and the Agrotain products contain a material that inhibits bacteria from doing their jobs in the soil (breaking down urea to make it available).

The possibility of them interfering with each other is almost 100%.

I agree with the last statement. We have been analyzing this product for over a year. It shows promise. I like the way they are positioning it as a bridge product that can reduce other chemicals being used and not a cure all. We are going to try it in a bigger way this year. Did some tests last fall that looked good.
Rusty

Thanks again,,, I evidently confused myself looking over a number of different articles and got the notion that Holganix stabilizes N in it useable form,,, but now I can't find that information...

That sounds like Agrotain all the way...

This BTW, is why I like the intelligent discussion of the forum... :)

Smallaxe
01-31-2013, 10:41 AM
There was a 3rd product in my research that I confused with Holganix... :)

cdqat1432
02-04-2013, 11:41 PM
Using a z max and in the process of setting up an intermediate.
They are the only way to go. Others may argue that it is faster to pull hose on some lawns but my max is set up with a lawn gun and 100 ft of hose so I can get just about anywhere with the max.

Biggest reason I would say is I am not really any more tired on the last lawn as opposed to when I started out pulling hose, my production steadily declined over the course of the day. I can easily double my production with the z vs pulling hose

I am setting up the intermediate b/c I found it locally and felt it was a good deal so I grabbed it.
Posted via Mobile Device
I am glad that holganix and zspray came up because i just went to a seminar about holganix. I am currently at a point where i need either a rider or another applicator, truck, tank,etc. The salesman suggested we use his program for everything under 2 acres and then the regular program for bigger than that. I can't afford to run 2 different programs out of the same truck and i certainly can't justify a zspray if my guy has to pull a hose on half of the accounts. What do i do? I also use the truck for ornamental and industrial veg spraying, so time is short as it is.

Triton37
02-06-2013, 10:38 AM
Yes I agree with you Smallaxe about having intelligent discussions. Since Holganix can't supply 1,2 and 3 year pictures of lawns treated using their product we are all left to figure out expectations and by no means am I about to invest in fleet changes without knowing how results will look at the end of one season. We're so accustomed to gauging measurable results within 2-3 weeks or at most 5 weeks therefore I can't even justify converting one machine right now. If it takes 30-40 minutes to swap out the tank on a Z-spray we're creating chaos within the routes which is why some are choosing to treat their entire route with the product versus only the organic ones and there's no way I'm going to set up two different systems on one truck.

cdqat1432
02-06-2013, 11:50 AM
I think that I am going to try Holganix. I followed Turf Hokie's posts through this thread. He was, at first apprehensive, but willing. Then more upbeat about doing more. Now he is enthusiastic. He pm'd his # to me so I called him with a list of questions, which he answered truthfully. My concerns were as follows:
Can I use a zspray? yes with slight mods.
How is customer service? excellent. quick delivery. they call him back.
Improvements? Thicker lawns, less cleanup, good crabgrass control, reduced material usage.
He was able to keep prices the same.
Customers noticed a difference but he kept it quiet initially just in case it didn't work out.
Zspray helps him spray 30-35 lawns as opposed to the 18 pulling a hose.
He also said that the reduced need for pesticides has helped because NY is very difficult with the chemicals they allow.

What can I say? He is a solid guy with good information. I am a skeptic but as a business owner, I am inherently a risk taker and it has worked out so far. We have to have faith and take chances, but with good information. The businesses that don't will eventually get outdated and outperformed.

Triton37
02-06-2013, 01:19 PM
Well said cdqat. Got a fine group here to work with on subjects like these especially business owner to business owner connections.

Joshuakwhit
02-15-2013, 04:39 PM
I appreciate this thread. At first i did not find anything on Holganix finally found this thread. I will be switching totally over to Holganix this year and very excited about the possibilities of this product!

turf hokie
03-05-2013, 05:42 PM
Ok, as promised. I got my 200 RAD set up today with the inductor system and 4 tote tanks for the rapid water fill system.

Here are the pics.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-06-2013, 08:08 PM
that is sweet looking

Lawn132012
03-15-2013, 09:14 AM
Turf Hokie Good luck with that electric bill! WOW that is some kind of system. I hope it works out for you with Holganix. I am still going to stay with the Sumagreen as I have noticed an earlier greening up then in past years with the Sumagreen. I priced Holganix to Sumagreen and there was no difference until it cam to treatment and the whole refrigeration system. The treatment was three times what sumagreen uses.

The guy from Holganix told me I needed 7-9 oz per 1000 sq/ft where sumagreen guy told me 3 oz. Holganix also told me that they use fertilizers with their treatments in order to get good results. How is that Organic or chemical free? The sumagreen guy told me if I wanted to use fertilizer I could and many of their LCO's do with the first treatment to get teh quicker greening up but it is not needed for the product as long as you are understanding it is a process and the greening up will take longer then using fertilizers.

I hope it works out for you guys I just do not want anyone getting the wrong information that Holganix is a stand alone product and that they do require fertilizer with the treatments. That is the part I got pissed about when talking to my Holganix guy in Jersey. They make it sound like they are completely fertilizer free and they are not.

I am not here to bad mouth Holganix but I do think their marketing is a little..... well no so true. Pricing is a little overboard as well. Good Luck to all using it. Bottom line is the bottom line if it is working for you then great as we are all here to make money. Main reason why I am using sumagreen instead of Holganix

turf hokie
03-15-2013, 06:38 PM
Lawn.

Not sure why you think my electric bill is going to be a problem? The only thing running is a chest freezer (converted into a refrigerator for temp)No different than the one I have at my house for food

Holganix can be used as a stand alone, it does not have to be used with anything else. I mix with 1/8-1/4 lb N. but will eventually see if I can go without. I don't want to mix alone on lawns that are transitioning off of getting 4-5 lbs N per year.

Not sure why you think Holganix has to be used with fert and sumagreen does not. That can both be used with or without.

I did not even price out the sumagreen. I just compared labels and the sumagreen does not have a comparable product in my opinion. There is a whole lot more in Holganix than sumagreen

My cost per thousand with the Holganix and 1/4 lb N . Is still less than a 50% scu applied at 1lb N. so I am not sure why you think holganix is cost prohibitive.
Posted via Mobile Device

replenish&subdue
03-17-2013, 04:10 PM
Lawn 13012 is a SumaGreen promoter and IS bad mouthing Holganix. See my thread:

When a search is done using SumaGreen,you can find Lawn 132012 in about every thread. Yet there is little testimony besides Lawn's 132012 brief expressions of "Try SumaGreen!" except that it has been through many studies. Before I try out the SumaGreen product can anyone direct to more supporting evidence. Can anyone share who these people are that developed the product. I wonder how well this one product (apart from a little N ) can supply and maintain a good environment for the soil.

I tried Holganix all last year except SumaGreen at the end. My summary can be found in previous threads. I am not a Holganix promoter but use it because it is the best bridge product I have found so far. I hope one day to make my own. Holganix leaves me with questions but I bear with it for now.

Lawn132012
03-20-2013, 10:38 AM
Replen

First I am NOT a SumaGreen Promoter. I am a promoter of products that I find useful. I thought the whole idea of this site was to share information. For that reason is WHY I mention SumaGreen. I could care less if everyone else on here used Holganix. All I was saying is that Holganix and SumaGreen are basically the same thing with the same results. My buddy Rob Lundholm (Cape May, www.lundholmlandscaping.com) told me about it when he switched from Holganix to SumaGreen last year. So please do not tell me I am a SumaGreen promoter.

If you had two products (Seeds say) that worked the same as the other one but one was cheaper with the same results would you switch? THANK YOU!!!

Turf- I got a price sheet from what they gave me and I got pricing of a 2 gallon at $105 to a 50 gallon at $2,250 They have other sizes but I would not want to be considered a PROMOTER of their product. I am sure they would send you a price sheet if you email them like I did last year.
Also not sure what you were talking about with the labels being better at Holganix. I did not see any real testing with their product at University level or even real world at a research center. SumaGreen as several tests and University studies on their products plus their forage product won the award for Best Green Technology in 2011 (Forage / Turf basically the same thing) .

Again if you want to use Holganix ...GREAT! I am staying with the SumaGreen for the same results and roughly half the price. I use 3 oz per 1000 sq/ft not 7-9 oz like Holganix and no electric bill no matter how small. Is Holganix going to replace your product if lost in a power outage?

Let Replenish work on his sales for Holganix. Really do not care.

turf hokie
03-20-2013, 04:04 PM
Replen

First I am NOT a SumaGreen Promoter. I am a promoter of products that I find useful. I personally dont care if you promote the product or not, and I am glad you find it usefullI thought the whole idea of this site was to share information.It is one if the reasons for the site For that reason is WHY I mention SumaGreen. It is fine that you mention it, but this is a thread on Holganix and you seem to keep bashing Holganix in favore of Sumagreen I could care less if everyone else on here used Holganix. All I was saying is that Holganix and SumaGreen are basically the same thing with the same results. That is a fine opinion to haveMy buddy Rob Lundholm (Cape May, www.lundholmlandscaping.com) told me about it when he switched from Holganix to SumaGreen last year.What does naming your buddy and listing his website have to do with anything? So please do not tell me I am a SumaGreen promoter.

If you had two products (Seeds say) that worked the same as the other one but one was cheaper with the same results would you switch? THANK YOU!!! I would be leary of them working the same if there was significant price difference.

Turf- I got a price sheet from what they gave me and I got pricing of a 2 gallon at $105 to a 50 gallon at $2,250 They have other sizes but I would not want to be considered a PROMOTER of their product. Thanks but I am happy with my Holganix product, reps and service.I am sure they would send you a price sheet if you email them like I did last year.
Also not sure what you were talking about with the labels being better at Holganix. Get your hands on the labels and you will see that Holganix has more in it, look deeper than molasses etc, you need to look at the number of beneficials etc in each I did not see any real testing with their product at University level or even real world at a research center. You need to do more looking then, Holganix is university tested.SumaGreen as several tests and University studies on their products plus their forage product won the award for Best Green Technology in 2011 (Forage / Turf basically the same thingI would not consider forage crops and Turf to be the same, at a basic level, yes, but once you starting maintaining turf at 3" and bagging clippings, it is a completely different thing than a forage crop) .

Again if you want to use Holganix ...GREAT! I am staying with the SumaGreen for the same results and roughly half the price. I use 3 oz per 1000 sq/ft not 7-9 oz like Holganix and no electric bill no matter how small. Is Holganix going to replace your product if lost in a power outage?[COLOR="red"]ummm, its called a back up generator, I have had one long before I started using Holganix....

Let Replenish work on his sales for Holganix. Really do not care.


Lawn,

I addressed most things in red above but want to be clear that you are putting things on this thread as fact when you simply have not done enough homework and are simply stating what amounts to be uneducated opinion.

Lets do a brief overview/comparison of products
+both can be used with a reduced rate of chemicals.
+both can be used as a stand alone
+Holganix needs to be kept cold, sumagreen does not
This should give you pause, why is this?
+Cost of product is almost identical
Sumagreen costs $1.05 per 1,000 sq ft
Holganix costs $1.04 per 1,000 sq ft

Soooo.....you are indeed misleading people pretty significantly when you tell them that Holganix costs twice as much as sumagreen. Even if there is more of a volume discount for larger quantities you will not reach a 50% material difference....

Cost of product based on your statement that 50 gallons is $2250...which is $45 per gallon and used at 3 oz per 1,000 sq ft.

Compared to Holganix used at 7 oz per 1,000 (my use rate and my pricing used)

replenish&subdue
03-20-2013, 09:57 PM
Holganix and SumaGreen are not the same. SumaGreen is a lot of microbes and Holganix has I think 23 ingredients. Lots of diversity in the one. I am not wanting to type a case. Just compare ingredients. It's in there.
I would almost bet you are a SumaGreen salesperson,just read your blogs. It's in there.

phasthound
03-20-2013, 11:16 PM
And then there is ICT Organics Instant Compost Tea;
$0.67/K, shelf life of 2 years, no refrigeration required.

Lawn132012
03-21-2013, 05:36 PM
Lawn,

I addressed most things in red above but want to be clear that you are putting things on this thread as fact when you simply have not done enough homework and are simply stating what amounts to be uneducated opinion.

Lets do a brief overview/comparison of products
+both can be used with a reduced rate of chemicals.
+both can be used as a stand alone
+Holganix needs to be kept cold, sumagreen does not
This should give you pause, why is this?
+Cost of product is almost identical
Sumagreen costs $1.05 per 1,000 sq ft
Holganix costs $1.04 per 1,000 sq ft

Soooo.....you are indeed misleading people pretty significantly when you tell them that Holganix costs twice as much as sumagreen. Even if there is more of a volume discount for larger quantities you will not reach a 50% material difference....

Cost of product based on your statement that 50 gallons is $2250...which is $45 per gallon and used at 3 oz per 1,000 sq ft.

Compared to Holganix used at 7 oz per 1,000 (my use rate and my pricing used)

Turf - I AGREE with EVERYTHING you wrote!!!
Lets do a brief overview/comparison of products
+both can be used with a reduced rate of chemicals.
+both can be used as a stand alone
+Holganix needs to be kept cold, sumagreen does not
This should give you pause, why is this?
+Cost of product is almost identical
Sumagreen costs $1.05 per 1,000 sq ft
Holganix costs $1.04 per 1,000 sq ft

Here is where I am not sure IF everyone gets this price. I am not as big as you I guess but The rate I buy at obviously is more expensive then what you are getting. The sale person for Holganix told me 7-9 oz per 1000 sq/ft and the price of the sizes he gave me were about the SAME as sumagreen. The main difference for me was using between two and three times the amount of product. Maybe the guy I talked to is trying to make a few extra bucks but his liquid Holganix (not the dry) product was about the same price as the sumagreen. That is where I got the COST MORE part of what I was saying.

I agree they are both supposed to be stand alone but the Holganix guy told me and others I talked to that they need to use fertilizer. Maybe I got a bad sales rep from Holganix. Can you please PM me the prices you were quoted or list here. I bet you get different prices. Are you a Holganix dealer? If not I want to see what prices you got so I can show the guy here and basically say THIS is why you lost a client because you tried to screw me.

Replenish- I could care less about WHAT is in the product (ingredients / microbes) they are both basically Organic or Green. The bottom line is do they work. I find it funny how the sales guy showed me some checklist of Holganix and sumagreen. I mean sumagreen could make a checklist to just listing everything they have and Holganix does not. I mean you have to be an idiot to buy product based on that. I want to have something that works and was cost efficient for my company. Bottom line is my BOTTOM LINE!! If what Turfhokie said it true about the prices he got then like I said the Holganix guy in my area screwed himself out of possible sales because he got greedy.
What kills me is you keep saying I am a sales person yet you are the one getting defensive in this post when I mention something bad (or negative) about Holganix. I am only stating how the products (pricing, etc) where offered to me.

Phastsound send me a price list of the ICT Organics and application rates and what else I need to know about the product so I can compare. Thanks

Question: I see ICT Organics you mentioned shelf life. What is the shelf life of the other products as I do not worry about holding on to product over 6 months at the month so to me shelf life is not that important but was interested why you mentioned it. I mean most of us on here do not keep product for more then one year let alone two years.

phasthound
03-21-2013, 07:12 PM
Turf - I AGREE with EVERYTHING you wrote!!!
Lets do a brief overview/comparison of products
+both can be used with a reduced rate of chemicals.
+both can be used as a stand alone
+Holganix needs to be kept cold, sumagreen does not
This should give you pause, why is this?
+Cost of product is almost identical
Sumagreen costs $1.05 per 1,000 sq ft
Holganix costs $1.04 per 1,000 sq ft

Here is where I am not sure IF everyone gets this price. I am not as big as you I guess but The rate I buy at obviously is more expensive then what you are getting. The sale person for Holganix told me 7-9 oz per 1000 sq/ft and the price of the sizes he gave me were about the SAME as sumagreen. The main difference for me was using between two and three times the amount of product. Maybe the guy I talked to is trying to make a few extra bucks but his liquid Holganix (not the dry) product was about the same price as the sumagreen. That is where I got the COST MORE part of what I was saying.

I agree they are both supposed to be stand alone but the Holganix guy told me and others I talked to that they need to use fertilizer. Maybe I got a bad sales rep from Holganix. Can you please PM me the prices you were quoted or list here. I bet you get different prices. Are you a Holganix dealer? If not I want to see what prices you got so I can show the guy here and basically say THIS is why you lost a client because you tried to screw me.

Replenish- I could care less about WHAT is in the product (ingredients / microbes) they are both basically Organic or Green. The bottom line is do they work. I find it funny how the sales guy showed me some checklist of Holganix and sumagreen. I mean sumagreen could make a checklist to just listing everything they have and Holganix does not. I mean you have to be an idiot to buy product based on that. I want to have something that works and was cost efficient for my company. Bottom line is my BOTTOM LINE!! If what Turfhokie said it true about the prices he got then like I said the Holganix guy in my area screwed himself out of possible sales because he got greedy.
What kills me is you keep saying I am a sales person yet you are the one getting defensive in this post when I mention something bad (or negative) about Holganix. I am only stating how the products (pricing, etc) where offered to me.

Phastsound send me a price list of the ICT Organics and application rates and what else I need to know about the product so I can compare. Thanks

Question: I see ICT Organics you mentioned shelf life. What is the shelf life of the other products as I do not worry about holding on to product over 6 months at the month so to me shelf life is not that important but was interested why you mentioned it. I mean most of us on here do not keep product for more then one year let alone two years.

Lawn132012,

I sent you a PM.

Turf Hokie buys in bulk & gets better pricing. That's no reason to bash the Holgainx sales rep.

replenish&subdue
03-21-2013, 08:29 PM
My bottom line in not money.

turf hokie
03-21-2013, 09:56 PM
Lawn132012,

I sent you a PM.

Turf Hokie buys in bulk & gets better pricing. That's no reason to bash the Holgainx sales rep.

Phasthound is right, no reason to bash the sales rep. It took me a long time to get to the point of buying on volume from any of my vendors. And I also expect that someone buying significantly less than me will pay more.

That being said, I dont know what you volume is...but...

when I went from the 4.5 gallon jugs to the bulk storage my price went down $6 per gallon, that is where you get the biggest savings. The savings from buying a few jugs, to the large fridge was not that much.

I asked my rep why such a jump in savings when going bulk? basically because of the cost of the containers....

my fridge held 135 gallons, the bulk tank holds 180 gallons, but I got a $6 per gallon break by going to the bulk storage...

I did base the price comparison on my bulk purchases and your pricing at 50 gallon drums, if there is a price break for larger sumagreen purchases then the sumagreen will end up being cheaper, but I dont know if there would be a huge break from 50 gal drums to tote tanks just based on my past fertilizer purchases...

There is also more to my buying decisions than price alone, you cannot build relationships on bottom line pricing.

I will send you a pm as well.

Lawn132012
03-22-2013, 01:32 AM
Guys I am not bashing the Holganix rep (replenish) I am just saying the guy that spoke to me about this time last year told me the things I mentioned along with a few other in our area. So like I said maybe the guy was new or just said what he wanted to thinking we would just buy no matter what.

Turfhokie and Phast I got your PM's and I will get back to you guys soon.

Turkhokie the next price break for the Sumagreen is the 250 tote and that is $42 a gallon.

I agree with several of you about it is not always about price but like I said I did not see any difference in the products proformance and neither did my friend Rob Lundholm (Cape May) or the other three companies that switched from Holganix to Sumagreen. I am happy with what we are using and I am glad you guys are happy with Holganix. I am not here for a pissing contest.
The reason I am using the sumagreen is because it is a GREEN product like holganix. So YES when the products preform the same obviously I went to price ...that is what I meant buy it didn't matter which product I used. The outcome was the same on the grass so I went with the cheaper product for myself.
Turfhokie gets the products cheaper so I am glad for him and any other company that is getting good pricing. I by the 50 gallon barrels because of the storage reasons and the ability to move area, easier then a tote.
None of us are making money on the products (except Replenish)

Now that we are done with the pissing contest does anyone use the ICT Organics that Phastsound was talking about? IF so what are the app methods? and can it be used with the usual stuff like the other two products we have been talking about.

replenish&subdue
03-22-2013, 10:14 AM
Ict has a solid line of products and the support to go with them. The 1-2-3 compost tea takes the effort out of making the tea yourself. I have used the tea,****,corn gluten and bought some "natural" insecticide this year to try.
If Holganix doesn't make the grade I might change to the fertilizer line ,I think,Barry carries called Nutrients Plus.
As for the bottom line, if your all about making money or surviving then money should be your bottom line.My bottom line is learning how the soil food web works and what products work best for a bridge company like myself. I do not see myself becoming all organic unless regulations force me to and/or products are developed that really work and are affordable and practical in running a business.

By the way to say SumaGreen and Holganix are the same just because the bottom line is the results are the same is rather shallow thinking. Are the results that the plant,turf is green? The benefit of Holganix having all those extra ingredients that SumaGreen does not have is that they are supposed to have different effects upon the soil. Benefits like enhanced disease prevention,root development,soil conditioning and of coarse the microbial life. For example,Holganix has endo & ecto mycorrizahae for roots.

Where the verdict is not in for me with Holganix is how effective are these ingredients! Sure they are in there and are said to do certain effects but is the quantity and quality of the ingredients sufficient to do so. For example,I find it hard to believe any nematodes or protozoa can survive all they have to go through after hitting the plant. There are other ingredients I could mention.

Meanwhile it is the best bridge product I know at this time. This will be my second year and I am more equipped to evaluate this time. Ultimately I hope to make my own bridge product.This will require for one being better trained to use a microscope to determine what can survive the mixtures added.

PremierRealtyServices
03-22-2013, 08:48 PM
I’m a customer of Holganix and I don’t know much about Suma Green but Holganix has been a good value for my company. I was able to reduce herbicides and fertilizers and was got better crab grass prevention this year than I ever have. They offer marketing support that helps me communicate the message behind the product. They also supplied a free RAD system… they tell me this stands for refrigerated automated dispensing system. Anyways it allowed me to tap into bulk delivery… lowering my cost. The RAD included a venture inductor and flash fill system which allowed me to fill my 400 gallon spray tank in 6 mins (used to take me 30 mins)!!!! I don’t know anyone else who makes such an investment in their customers than Holganix. I’m getting better results, saving money, and get to tap into the green message with marketing.

Smallaxe
03-23-2013, 11:23 AM
If Holganix is what it takes to get people to recognize the benefits of an improved soil base,,, then it is a good thing...
It would be even better if the discussion was more about Why,,, as opposed to the discussion being about Whether... :)

" And then there is ICT Organics Instant Compost Tea;
$0.67/K, shelf life of 2 years, no refrigeration required. "

I agree that this is more 'bang for your buck", and I'm not advertizing for ICT, just comparing the value of comparable ingredients... :)

Joshuakwhit
04-04-2013, 06:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9w1tacK15U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

New video of Steve Lange, talking about the makeup of Holganix. It's about 30 minutes long and very interesting!

DalesLanscaping
04-09-2013, 09:03 AM
Was not very impressed with the results of Holganix.

I may give them a try again this year but the cost is not very appealing.

turf hokie
04-10-2013, 07:28 AM
Was not very impressed with the results of Holganix.

I may give them a try again this year but the cost is not very appealing.

Can you give us a little more information as to why you were not impressed? Any thing specific or in general?

Maybe your experience can help others, maybe we can help you?

DalesLanscaping
04-11-2013, 01:34 PM
It never got greened up after 3 applications. I applied 7 oz in each application and I used on my lawn and two others (different areas but not clients) so I could actually mark off areas. I do this whenever I am using a new product to see performance and also see once I do find something that is good if I need to use as much as they say.

Color was way off compared to some other products I have used. I have used One App which is a slow release fertilizer and does a nice job but I am trying to get away from the fertilizer. This is the third year I have been trying to find something that actually does what it says and can get my lawns green enough. I understand the process is slow when talking to people but after three applications there should have been something going on.

Also not really thrilled about having to refrigerating the product either. I really do not care about getting the system I just do not want to be locked into a system unless I see it work. I do not want to move around my workshop for this refrigeration system. Price was not that bad compared to fertilizer considering I was upselling on the fact of Organic application.

How are you using the Holganix?

Smallaxe
04-11-2013, 02:07 PM
The key thing to remember is that once the raw food is gone,,, there is no more nutrient cycling to happen,,, unless there is an alternative source of N... 7oz of N per k, will easily make a difference on any turf that I've seen...

Something to think about,,, maybe even ponder... :)

DalesLanscaping
04-12-2013, 02:25 PM
So are you saying I should have been adding Nitrogen with the Holganix?

I am not sure what you are trying to say.

I was adding 7 oz of Holganix per 1000 sq/ft not Nitrogen. I thought they said I did not need Nitrogen with their product? I am truly confused now

turf hokie
04-12-2013, 08:18 PM
Dale's

Yes, you can use it without fertilizer, but it is recommended to use a low rate of N when you first switch over to the product. It helps with the transition from synthetic to organic.

We are applying 7 oz holganix with .25 lbs N (from soluble urea) I will probably switch that to 1/8 lb N for the next round. And continue with that thru the summer and test a few without any N to see if there is an appreciable difference.

Smallaxe
04-13-2013, 11:49 AM
How does Holganix FEED the grass??? What is its Method Of Operation???

When we understand how a carbuerater works, we can figure out reasons why it may not be working, when it quits... Same with anything else... How does Holganix work??? :)

Joshuakwhit
04-13-2013, 09:07 PM
Watch the YouTube video at the top of the page.
Posted via Mobile Device

PremierRealtyServices
05-21-2013, 05:37 PM
daleslandscaping-- we are also using 70z Holganix with .25oz N and seeing good results. As I understand it, Holganix works on it's own but can take longer to get those instant results without a little N. Sometimes we spot treat as well. maybe worth trying again with .25 N?

Smallaxe
05-22-2013, 07:21 AM
Watch the YouTube video at the top of the page.
Posted via Mobile Device

Videos take forever to load and play,,, even with this satelite dish... besides, they are generally alot of hype and no real information then I become frustrated that the 3 sentence answer was never even addressed...

BTW,,, is the liquid N amount .25 oz or .25 lbs.???

PremierRealtyServices
05-22-2013, 12:53 PM
.25oz. Well small axe I thought vid was pretty informative but if that's not your thing why not just read the info bit about the vid??? Watching the vid was better then reading about it tho.
Posted via Mobile Device

DalesLanscaping
05-22-2013, 01:33 PM
Premier Reality - Where are you located in PA? As I have spoken to several that used Holganix in the area and they were not very impressed at all with the product. I tried it and not very good outcome. I think more have moved on from Holganix then are actually using the product. I would be more interested in hearing from continual users as I got a few PM's from people that do not use Holganix anymore and were not impressed with the results after one full year.

I would still be interested in talking to you so if you are close by I will come see your operation in action with product.

PremierRealtyServices
05-22-2013, 02:10 PM
Dales landscaping- we are located in glen mills... Around the corner from Holganix. Do you an email I could reach you at?
Posted via Mobile Device

DalesLanscaping
05-23-2013, 10:19 AM
Email is: DalesLandscapingLLC@gmail.com

You are around the corner from Holganix so do you work or sell for them?

PremierRealtyServices
05-23-2013, 12:43 PM
No. Here's our website: http://www.premier-realtyservices.com/

I'll contact you and we can set up a time to meet or talk if you would like. I'm not sure which of the Holganix reps or vendor reps told you, you could instantly get away with no N tho...