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View Full Version : New Project...LED candidate?


Rainman7
11-12-2010, 07:47 AM
I am going to be setting up a demo at this house this weekend. I am just doing the front of the house for now and no landscape. The back is still under a little construction so that will probably be in a couple of weeks.

I will mainly be using par fixtures across the front, couple of bullets in small areas between the windows, and a couple of starbursts at the peak inside the balcony on the right.

Here is a link to some photos I took with my phone.
http://picasaweb.google.com/RayBrunette3/ForestHillsLightingProject?feat=directlink

Question is, customer want to know if there are any energy efficient options? Think I would be able to do this in LED? If so, what would give me the same effect as a par 35w?

Thanks

emby
11-12-2010, 02:03 PM
Rainman,

That is a very nice looking property. This is just my opinion and please do not take any offence....do not light that with PAR lamps and fixtures. There is a lot of detail on the building and the property supports large design options. Mature trees, architectural features that are amazing...this should be a stellar project that should be remarkable. LED or halogen,my business sense suggests that maybe you should ask to see if someone from this forum is in your area to assist. It would be a shame to design and paint with PAR lamps on that one.

Ken

RLI Electric
11-12-2010, 04:49 PM
I wouldn't hesitate using LED for a second on it. Especially if they mentioned energy efficient. It was probably the question following "Can you do this with solar lights?"

nikster78
11-12-2010, 06:36 PM
Light Em' up Rainman. Use the whole kit. Nice property to create a stellar presentation. Use the whole kit!. Halogen, Led, merc, use it all and make the place stand out in the dark. Did i say use the whole Kit?

Pro-Scapes
11-12-2010, 07:54 PM
Is there any sort of ambient light with it ? I just dont see LED cutting it on that. I tried 6 different lamps on a limestone house and it wasnt even coming close to what we saw with an FMW MR16 and a frosted lens.

We even tried the Kichler and it just wasnt working out for color on the stone

Tim R.
11-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Rainman,

That is a very nice looking property. This is just my opinion and please do not take any offence....do not light that with PAR lamps and fixtures. There is a lot of detail on the building and the property supports large design options. Mature trees, architectural features that are amazing...this should be a stellar project that should be remarkable. LED or halogen,my business sense suggests that maybe you should ask to see if someone from this forum is in your area to assist. It would be a shame to design and paint with PAR lamps on that one.

Ken

Ahhh, another PAR hater. :rolleyes: Whatever, PARs are great lamps regardless of how you have been brainwashed. There is nothing better for soft washing on Architecture...JMO

Cool House, I see a mix of PAR, MR and bi-pin. The only LEDs I could see you using on something that size would be the Kichlers, but they have a very limited application and no lensing options. Maybe someday someone in their design department will try creating fixtures for someone other than bored housewives.

Rainman7
11-12-2010, 10:26 PM
Rainman,

That is a very nice looking property. This is just my opinion and please do not take any offence....do not light that with PAR lamps and fixtures. There is a lot of detail on the building and the property supports large design options. Mature trees, architectural features that are amazing...this should be a stellar project that should be remarkable. LED or halogen,my business sense suggests that maybe you should ask to see if someone from this forum is in your area to assist. It would be a shame to design and paint with PAR lamps on that one.

Ken

Why not Par? I find in certain situations that pars give a more uniform consistent light spread than an MR16. You may be using cheap Par bulbs if you don't see it. I only use GE, I used a less expensive brand my dist. tried giving me once and the light output on the same rated bulb looked completely different.

There are only two trees in the front on the property. If you take the time to really look at the front of the house it is a nice house but as far as lighting it I dont see ALOT of different options. The nice architectural features are on flat surfaces with not alot of dimension. What do you see?

Remember, there will be no landscape this year which would make this a different project. For now just the front of the house.

As far as ambient light, there is one street light on the property line that does not give much light. Its actually an amber light.

And no, I am not offended, but just curious, did you think I needed help because of the question or because I use PAR's? I would love to find someone in the area that I could check out their jobs and ideas. I have tried going around with some reps one time but I felt they their ideas were just to eat up fixtures. I think it would be tough to find a competitor that would be interested in helping out on a job.

How would you guys light this house? and what bulbs/fixtures? I know its hard without seeing it in person but just curious how many ideas come up.

Thanks

emby
11-12-2010, 11:16 PM
Sorry everybody did not mean to sound like a PAR hater. Its not that I do not like PAR's (I use them often myself) I was just thinking that if you wanted to make the transition to LED's later(as an option for energy savings to the customer) than you could go with a halogen MR 16 lamp now and use the retro lamps later.
I would attempt to illuminate the house with many different levels of light. Most of the house I would illuminate using a level 3 (low) and then would try to illuminate some of the architectural features around the front entrance with level 2 and 1 (which could be acheived with narrow beam spreads).
I really like the iron balcony above the front door along with the rounded arch of the front door. This is all wrapped beautifully together by having that whole section of the building round in shape from the ground all the way to the peak of the roof. Worth making it a focal point for sure but thats just my opinion.
I also really like the the peak above the flat roof. It would be nice to illuminate that round architectual feature near the peak itself and splash the rest very softly.
Everybody is different in the way they would design but I see a lot of beauty and character in that house and why not enhance all those many unique features rather than just an even splash of light all they way around.
Just my thoughts for you on a Friday evening. Night all.

Ken

trailboss
11-13-2010, 10:59 AM
Since you are considering LED - I would recommend getting a few different fixtures to demo on that stone work. We have primarily used LED over the past few months but its been a bit challenging finding the right light color. They all have a different look. We have primarily used Kichler, Vista and FX - and really like all three for different applications. IMO the Kichler has the most output but the coldest color - great for moonlight. We really like using the Vista because of the warmer color option and beam spread choices. The FX is also gonna have its place with the ability to change out the colored lenses. Just my experience so far - Im sure it will all be different in time.
I think that if you decide to go LED you will really enjoy the installation aspect.

Have fun!

Steve

Rainman7
11-15-2010, 10:13 PM
Ok Ok....so I need some help. I used some par's, mr16's and bi-pins. to wash the walls and hi-light a few features. The customer said her kids said it looked like a haunted house:laugh::laugh:......first time for that.

Anyway I kind of agreed....I feel like the problem is that the castle rock is really sucking up the light and the way it darkens at the top makes it look a little gloomy. Another problem is the color, the shades of tan looked too washed out on the lower half. How can I bring out the color of the stone, needs to be a bit warmer.

Any suggestions from people with exp. on this type of house? It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

seolatlanta
11-15-2010, 11:14 PM
That is a very unique house , but it will look awesome when you finish for sure. I would make sure you use enough fixtures on it , dont skimp. Also dont forget that large recessed peak in pic 17.09.

Also you got Gargoyles dude!! You have to make sure you get those and make em look good , maybe downlight onto those softly.

I guess my point is use what you are comfortable using , if you like Par lamps and can come up with a good design then use them . I counter 10 lights just on the facia and then 2 cross lighting that peak. Thats just the front facia not including landscape.

niteliters
11-15-2010, 11:34 PM
doesn't help that it looks a little gothic. can you get your hands on par 36 35 wfl and par 36 4446. the 4446, I think, would work for single story and might be enough for higher elevations if there's no or little ambient light. It will definitely warm things up. the 35 wfl, while a halogen might work for taller elavations. The projection lamps I am aware of that are true incandescant (other than the 4446) and project light, don't have a very long lamp life but could be undervolted slightly (10-10.5 volts) to extend life. hope you can get your hands on those lamps to give them a try

good luck

extlights
11-16-2010, 01:49 AM
I think that placement is going to be the biggest hurdle. Obviously with that facade as you already figured out is going to create more shadows off the stone thus diminishing the light output once it gets to the higher elevations. From the pictures it looks like it might be a little tough to do any downlighting, but if it's possible in someway you could work with both downlighting and uplighting to create a nice look. I think it's definately workable with par's and mr's, you just have to find the right placement and beam spreads.

Rainman7
11-16-2010, 08:35 AM
I used a total of 14 fixtures so far. Mostly Par 36WFL, a bi-pin on in the middle of the lower wall below the peak on the right and a mr16 in the middle of the chimney. All halogen bulbs.

I think I am going to try some incandescent 50W vnsp in the corners, and 25W vwfl to fill and 25w vnsp to cross light the balcony above the front door.

After I took those pictures, they installed a dragon head(original) above the front door with a round amber glass fixture hanging from the mouth. Thats the only light in the front. They are not helping with the haunted house look!!!

niteliters
11-16-2010, 09:41 AM
I used a total of 14 fixtures so far. Mostly Par 36WFL, a bi-pin on in the middle of the lower wall below the peak on the right and a mr16 in the middle of the chimney. All halogen bulbs.

I think I am going to try some incandescent 50W vnsp in the corners, and 25W vwfl to fill and 25w vnsp to cross light the balcony above the front door.

After I took those pictures, they installed a dragon head(original) above the front door with a round amber glass fixture hanging from the mouth. Thats the only light in the front. They are not helping with the haunted house look!!!

that's funny, you have your work cut out for you. I saw some wires stubbed out right and left of garage door. are they using a similar fixture there?

Rainman7
11-16-2010, 02:19 PM
that's funny, you have your work cut out for you. I saw some wires stubbed out right and left of garage door. are they using a similar fixture there?

I'm just doing the front for now. I am waiting until the construction is done in the back and the fixtures are installed.
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Pro-Scapes
11-17-2010, 08:41 AM
If the client is going for the gothic look and spending serious money to make it that way then dont contradict them by over lighting it. Bring out that texture in that stone. I think if the light is not as bright in top then so be it. Make sure you can clearly see it but dont become obsessed with being able to see the outlines as clearly as you do during the day. Give them a major dramatic(this house bleeds drama) look at night. Definatly put something with some punch to grab that Chimney and make sure you keep your color temps in check.

Have you ever been someplace or seen something you enjoy but your not quite sure why you enjoy being there or seeing it ? This is always my goal. I dont want people to say WOW look at that house all lit up. I want them to say ohhh what a pretty home and be captivated.