PDA

View Full Version : Leaf lowballers everywhere!


lawnprosteveo
12-05-2010, 10:13 PM
I know this shouldnt be such a surprise to me...but there are guys advertising complete leaf removal for $60. There are also guys doing curbside removal for $30...all yards!

I did a curbside the other day that was a wind row about 45' long, 3' high, and 4' wide! How can you do that for $30??

The answer is you do it for 1 or 2 seasons and then realize you could make more as a Home Depot associate or a McDonald's fry cook.:confused::hammerhead::confused:

dKoester
12-05-2010, 11:12 PM
Don't worry what other people are doing. Be concerned with what your doing. stay focused. Handle your business. If I worried about everyone else in the business I would be depressed and wouldn't get a thing accomplished.

lawnprosteveo
12-05-2010, 11:17 PM
Don't worry what other people are doing. Be concerned with what your doing. stay focused. Handle your business. If I worried about everyone else in the business I would be depressed and wouldn't get a thing accomplished.Thats true. Even with guys working for peanuts, I have still nearly doubled my leaf removal income this season through lots of advertising and hard work.

dKoester
12-05-2010, 11:22 PM
Exactly! Thats those are the type of things you need to keep your mind on to stay focused. These guys might take along time to do leaf removals so it could end up not being worth their time,which they will soon find out. Efficiency is key.

zapy
12-06-2010, 10:38 AM
Exactly! Thats those are the type of things you need to keep your mind on to stay focused. These guys might take along time to do leaf removals so it could end up not being worth their time,which they will soon find out. Efficiency is key.



C'mon. Get creative! I have good paying accounts and at the time cannot afford the equipment those hacks are usinug so......... I collect the $$ from my customers and hire the hacks to do the dirty work for me. No wear or tear on my equipment and I get to focus on other work that I may have had to put off and possibly lose. In a year or two or less they'll be out of business and I'll still be skinny and happy (not fat and happy) as I'm not ripping anyone off but I'm not lowballing either.

dKoester
12-06-2010, 01:32 PM
You hire hacks, I hire experienced employees who have a good report from their previous company.

DQL10
12-06-2010, 01:43 PM
You hire hacks, I hire experienced employees who have a good report from their previous company.

I think he was trying to say that he subs out the work to those guys who do it for 30 bucks. Only badside I see to this is that once the customer sees these other guys doing the work out there, they fire you and hire them. But maybe thats just me being paranoid. :confused:

dKoester
12-06-2010, 03:03 PM
Yeah, I figured that. I'd rather have my trucks on the job. Walk up customers with the "hey can you do my yard" always happen.

DQL10
12-06-2010, 03:13 PM
Yup. Happened to me a lot this summer with mowing. People would say hey, how much are you charging? My mower broke and need my lawn done asap.

NPMinc
12-06-2010, 10:04 PM
This is my first post but I have been reading this forum for awhile. I am also not by any means new to the business. I just had to chime in on this topic. With attitudes like I have seen in this post I can't help but wonder how half these guys are still in business. Using logic like I don't work for free or peanuts or I have overhead etc. Did i miss miraculus thing occuring that I am not aware of? Last I checked my overhead (liabilty and vehicle insurance, workmans comp ins, monthy equipment financing payments etc) dont magically go away because I have put my equipment away for the year. Lets be realistic, Im not saying keep all your crews and equipment out to work leaves if the market and money isnt there to justify it, but personally if I can go out and make $75/hour working myself or with one guy who I pay 10 so thats $65/hr and have a minimum amount of equipment on the job (1 of my pickup dumps and a few blowers) im doing ok-----not getting rich but making money. Lets do the numbers--- say its a 3 hour job and I do 2 that day. Thats $450 just me/ $390 with the help. Now--- expenses 2 blowers-no more then $10/day fuel, my truck say less then $10 for fuel. That leaves me with a $430/$370 take for the day. Now lets say I do this 4 days this week thats $1720/$1480. As I said,no pot of gold there, but also not working for "free" as some put it. I know I would much rather have that to put towards my overhead (notice I didnt include them in my expenses cause those bills are there whether I am out working or not) than the $0 I would have made sitting home on my Azz. Not to mention the advertising from my truck being out or the potential for acquiring new customers for next season

parrlawncare
12-06-2010, 11:06 PM
NPMinc.....Good break down ! I completly agree with you.

gasracer
12-07-2010, 09:51 AM
That is a good breakdown.
Some of the "lowballers" around here will do a 3 hour clean up job for $50-$60. They mow for $15-$20 a yard. I can't touch that.

Agape
12-08-2010, 12:11 PM
This is my first post but I have been reading this forum for awhile. I am also not by any means new to the business. I just had to chime in on this topic. With attitudes like I have seen in this post I can't help but wonder how half these guys are still in business. Using logic like I don't work for free or peanuts or I have overhead etc. Did i miss miraculus thing occuring that I am not aware of? Last I checked my overhead (liabilty and vehicle insurance, workmans comp ins, monthy equipment financing payments etc) dont magically go away because I have put my equipment away for the year. Lets be realistic, Im not saying keep all your crews and equipment out to work leaves if the market and money isnt there to justify it, but personally if I can go out and make $75/hour working myself or with one guy who I pay 10 so thats $65/hr and have a minimum amount of equipment on the job (1 of my pickup dumps and a few blowers) im doing ok-----not getting rich but making money. Lets do the numbers--- say its a 3 hour job and I do 2 that day. Thats $450 just me/ $390 with the help. Now--- expenses 2 blowers-no more then $10/day fuel, my truck say less then $10 for fuel. That leaves me with a $430/$370 take for the day. Now lets say I do this 4 days this week thats $1720/$1480. As I said,no pot of gold there, but also not working for "free" as some put it. I know I would much rather have that to put towards my overhead (notice I didnt include them in my expenses cause those bills are there whether I am out working or not) than the $0 I would have made sitting home on my Azz. Not to mention the advertising from my truck being out or the potential for acquiring new customers for next season

You assume your only expenses as gas, workers, and time-

Agape
12-08-2010, 12:29 PM
However, if you are a legitimate business you match your workers social security,fica,etc-you pay taxes,your phone didn't ring majically, you probabally put out some advertising,paying an accountant, spending gas and time to give a quote, then uncle sam wants 35-50%-no such thing as a 3-Hour job unless it was supposed to be a 2-hour or less job -as nothing works out like you think it would, the leaves don't majically dissapear so you have dumping, and gas for dumping, and labor for dumping, as legally you can't stop employees time when they are in the truck, In fact- you have to start their time as soon as they show up-you only think you are making money "lets say I do 2 jobs....." you are most likely not doing two jobs/day, 4 days/week cause it just don't work that way...you are a scrub, you are under the table, and you have no respect from any of us who run our businesses legitimately.

NPMinc
12-13-2010, 10:22 PM
Try re-reading my post I stated I didnt include overhead things like advertising etc because those bills are there whether I am sitting at home or working and dont go up because I am out on a job. My insurance vehicle payments, equipment payments are year round they simply dont say "oh you are done for the season just start paying us again when you start again in the spring." And last time I checked my ad is in the phonebook year round not just for the mowing season, and that bill has long been paid. I cant and will not understand how you can say that making NO money to put towards these bills is better then none even if it say like 800-1000 per week? If u read I was talking about me personally going out with a helper to do these jobs not a shift of guys. Oh and I didnt realize you were familiar with my operations work schedule to tell me how many jobs I do a day. Not that I have to justify myself to you, but FYI all my employees are legal american citizens, with completely complient payroll, taxes etc. You can call me a scrub all you want but when I am making money to put towards my bills in the off season for the landscaping portion of my business, you can just sit there on your lazy azz and whine about your bills. As the owner a very successful local landscape and excavation company in my area---Im talking a few million gross profit yearly once told me---"The day I decide not to go out and personally work to make money for my business, i have either made the big time and can retire, or I have gotten very lazy,either way its time for me to get out"

lawnprosteveo
12-16-2010, 04:03 PM
Just finished a job yesterday and the guy said he hired me BECAUSE I wasnt the low bidder. Turns out last fall he hired a guy who he figured was lowballing because his bid was so much lower than everyone elses. The guy did a lousy job so this year he was looking for someone who seemed to know what they were doing.

Premier landscaping south
12-16-2010, 04:10 PM
Just finished a job yesterday and the guy said he hired me BECAUSE I wasnt the low bidder. Turns out last fall he hired a guy who he figured was lowballing because his bid was so much lower than everyone elses. The guy did a lousy job so this year he was looking for someone who seemed to know what they were doing.

AMEN! Good for you and the client who learned a lesson.

Agape
12-16-2010, 04:54 PM
if you have a helper for $10, and still have 65 you are paying under the table.

some of us don't do that.
also,lets say we have a tiny job that takes two man hours so a lowball bid would be $80 well any where you go will cost you at least $10-15 to get there and dump. dumping has a min charge but a two hour leaf job should fill the average truck, so there is another $20 (avg.) in dumping. and $10-15 in gas to go give the estimate.
and this doesn't factor time to get to the job and to give the est.
so now a tiny one man job just paid $30 out of which, uncle sam wants up to half. now you got $15 and I think that's what people are talking about when they say its not worth their time. thats why I have a min. charge if I do any job.

Picture Perfect Landscape
12-17-2010, 01:49 AM
Wow Agape...not really trying to get in the middle of this, because I do see a couple of your points. But lets at least be realistic with some of these numbers and statistics you are using.

Your gas prices are way high... $10-15 is anywhere from 3-5 gallons of gas for a diesel and even more for a gas truck. depending on your truck your probably getting between 10 and 22 mpg. Should you be at the bottom of that you could be accurate as round trip COULD be 30 miles, but most probably not unless you live away from everything. But considering most trucks built in the last 10 years get much better than 10 mpg unloaded and not towing (which you would most likely be for an estimate), $15 is a bit much to say for the gas for estimating and repeating the cost for dumping.

And the whole box deal... you don't know what kind of equipment he has. On average most companies that have been in this business for any length of time are not putting leaves in the back of their truck unless its a dump or they have a box and loader. And there is no way a 2 man hour job is going to fill even a small dump truck or bed with a box or even a 6 1/2' bed with a box, let alone a tandem axle trailer with OR without a box. And if they have a loader it probably wouldn't fill it 10%...

I've seen you respond in a couple of threads. Again I see a couple of your points but if you going to try and shoot somebody down at least be accurate with everything, or get a few more details. I don't know you or him, but right now you make yourself look like an ass... and somewhat for no reason.

Carry on.

Agape
12-17-2010, 03:28 AM
Wow Agape...not really trying to get in the middle of this, because I do see a couple of your points. But lets at least be realistic with some of these numbers and statistics you are using.

Your gas prices are way high... $10-15 is anywhere from 3-5 gallons of gas for a diesel and even more for a gas truck. depending on your truck your probably getting between 10 and 22 mpg. Should you be at the bottom of that you could be accurate as round trip COULD be 30 miles, but most probably not unless you live away from everything. But considering most trucks built in the last 10 years get much better than 10 mpg unloaded and not towing (which you would most likely be for an estimate), $15 is a bit much to say for the gas for estimating and repeating the cost for dumping.

And the whole box deal... you don't know what kind of equipment he has. On average most companies that have been in this business for any length of time are not putting leaves in the back of their truck unless its a dump or they have a box and loader. And there is no way a 2 man hour job is going to fill even a small dump truck or bed with a box or even a 6 1/2' bed with a box, let alone a tandem axle trailer with OR without a box. And if they have a loader it probably wouldn't fill it 10%...

I've seen you respond in a couple of threads. Again I see a couple of your points but if you going to try and shoot somebody down at least be accurate with everything, or get a few more details. I don't know you or him, but right now you make yourself look like an ass... and somewhat for no reason.

Carry on.
is $15 a bit much? ok lets say 10! was I being wildly inaccurate? I was only giving a for instance and there is no such thing as a 2 hour job, you may bid it as such, but it never works out that way. I'm sorry you felt the need to berate me over fuel costs, mileage and so forth and 95% of us don't have a loader but the point is; I didn't attack anyone, berate anyone or put anyone down as you are doing to me.
I've gotten my feelings hurt in the past and have lashed out but you know what?

I've realized that out of 135,000 members and 515 viewers at any given time, there are only like 4 or 5 people who go out of their way to belittle me or otherwise try to put me down, and it'll only work if I let it.

have a great day.

Southern Elegance
12-17-2010, 10:31 PM
fact is , sometimes its more about cash flow than profits. like it or not

Agape
12-17-2010, 10:46 PM
fact is , sometimes its more about cash flow than profits. like it or not

Good point, if you're trying to keep workers around, ya gotta get something going.

if it's just me; it would depend on how I felt, I'd probabaly do it, since I went out for the estimate, but I'd definitely try to upsell in some way.

joel29m
12-17-2010, 11:33 PM
[QUOTE=NPMinc;3822788] "oh you are done for the season just start paying us again when you start again in the spring."
do you know how happy ill be with this?

soloscaperman
12-18-2010, 01:37 AM
It all depends from what life style you have or wanna live down to how far the job is and if it is windy or not. All these little variables add up. If this was a regular customer and you have no work go ahead and do it. You know why, because once another LCO walks in your "Client zone" it can be disastrous.

NPMinc
12-18-2010, 11:51 PM
SouthernElegance you said it correctly, its about cash flow not just profits. The money I made on my leaves this fall is going a long way and has been a great help towards paying bills without dipping into savings etc, since we havent had any real snow yet just 2 saltings, and the interior maintence side has been kinda slow of late too. As I said those to whom I owe money don't care about this, they just want paid every month so my "scrub" way of doing things and the approx 8-10k I brought in doing leaves is a real blessing right now. Plus it kept my customers happy and was a good way to advertise for snow removal and next springs jobs.

nepatsfan
12-19-2010, 08:08 AM
SouthernElegance you said it correctly, its about cash flow not just profits. The money I made on my leaves this fall is going a long way and has been a great help towards paying bills without dipping into savings etc, since we havent had any real snow yet just 2 saltings, and the interior maintence side has been kinda slow of late too. As I said those to whom I owe money don't care about this, they just want paid every month so my "scrub" way of doing things and the approx 8-10k I brought in doing leaves is a real blessing right now. Plus it kept my customers happy and was a good way to advertise for snow removal and next springs jobs.

You said earlier you grossed a few million and you only made 8-10k doing leaves and you basically say you take whatever you can to make a few bucks. Really? These numbers do not jive.

NPMinc
12-21-2010, 02:00 AM
nepats fan as you will see below I was quoting what an owner of a multi-million company once told me, not stating that was my earnings. oh and by the way that 8-10k was what I personally with 1 worker doing leaves our "scrub" way made on residentials, not my company's entire fall cleanup earnings. Thanks for your concern though.


As the owner a very successful local landscape and excavation company in my area---Im talking a few million gross profit yearly once told me---"The day I decide not to go out and personally work to make money for my business, i have either made the big time and can retire, or I have gotten very lazy,either way its time for me to get out"

Agape
12-21-2010, 02:13 AM
The owner of a successful landscape and multi million dollar company is not dealing with $100 leaf jobs.
I'm very ok making less on a job, but where my net profit is closer to 10-20 bucks for 3 hours of work, I'd just as soon put out fliers for 3 hours in a nicer area and get better customers.
We talk against scrub lawn guys, but I think there are definitely scrub customers as well.

do what you want, my ideas are for me, I'm just sharing.

jeannewyatt
12-21-2010, 06:11 AM
keep the flower beds clear and blow off the ivy if there is any. that will be the difference that people will see. also being able to contact you year after year. the other guys spend one season killing themselves for peanuts and realize that they make more money easier at minimum wage. they will be long gone when the customer asks why your rates are so much higher. i always tell people, if they can get it done so much cheaper with joe blow, call him back. i always get the same response, he doesn't answer the phone or return my calls. that is because he knew he under bid the job and doesn't want to do it again.

Sammy
12-21-2010, 11:39 AM
........when the customer asks why your rates are so much higher. i always tell people, if they can get it done so much cheaper with joe blow, call him back. i always get the same response, he doesn't answer the phone or return my calls. that is because he knew he under bid the job and doesn't want to do it again.

Yup, been that way for years. :drinkup:

georgiagrass
12-21-2010, 04:36 PM
if you have a helper for $10, and still have 65 you are paying under the table.

some of us don't do that.
also,lets say we have a tiny job that takes two man hours so a lowball bid would be $80 well any where you go will cost you at least $10-15 to get there and dump. dumping has a min charge but a two hour leaf job should fill the average truck, so there is another $20 (avg.) in dumping. and $10-15 in gas to go give the estimate.
and this doesn't factor time to get to the job and to give the est.
so now a tiny one man job just paid $30 out of which, uncle sam wants up to half. now you got $15 and I think that's what people are talking about when they say its not worth their time. thats why I have a min. charge if I do any job.

Sheesh! It was clear ... at least to some of us ... that NPM meant that there is money left over from paying the variable expenses to help fund overhead or even to add to profit. Lighten up.

Agape
12-21-2010, 09:00 PM
Sheesh! It was clear ... at least to some of us ... that NPM meant that there is money left over from paying the variable expenses to help fund overhead or even to add to profit. Lighten up.

Yeah thats cool, I was just saying that if the job was too small I would rather put out door fliers in another, better neighborhood. but yeah I would bid a $500 job maybe $425 if I felt I was needing the money and I still made money.
I would not, however, feel the need to compete with the lowballers.

It's the same thing in the winter, you give bids, and a certain% are yes' you just have less bids in the winter. so as usual my bid would be my best guess of how much profit I need compared to my expenses and as usual I would get the work from someone who understood quality and liked the way I presented my business or they would go with the lowest price, and thats OK.

I've decided to build my business on Quality, rather than cheapness of service.
I'm not as busy as the lowballers but all my customers are awsome and loyal, I'm not worried about some fly-by-nighter stealing my accounts or jobs with saving a few bucks, cause most of my customers weren't looking for that in the first place.

I don't care what anyone does or does not do, if you wanna do leaves for $10/ hour, well God bless ya, my input is worth what you paid for it. lol

lighten up yourself...good day!

Barefoot James
12-21-2010, 11:08 PM
Wow Agape...not really trying to get in the middle of this, because I do see a couple of your points. But lets at least be realistic with some of these numbers and statistics you are using.

Your gas prices are way high... $10-15 is anywhere from 3-5 gallons of gas for a diesel and even more for a gas truck. depending on your truck your probably getting between 10 and 22 mpg. Should you be at the bottom of that you could be accurate as round trip COULD be 30 miles, but most probably not unless you live away from everything. But considering most trucks built in the last 10 years get much better than 10 mpg unloaded and not towing (which you would most likely be for an estimate), $15 is a bit much to say for the gas for estimating and repeating the cost for dumping.

And the whole box deal... you don't know what kind of equipment he has. On average most companies that have been in this business for any length of time are not putting leaves in the back of their truck unless its a dump or they have a box and loader. And there is no way a 2 man hour job is going to fill even a small dump truck or bed with a box or even a 6 1/2' bed with a box, let alone a tandem axle trailer with OR without a box. And if they have a loader it probably wouldn't fill it 10%...

I've seen you respond in a couple of threads. Again I see a couple of your points but if you going to try and shoot somebody down at least be accurate with everything, or get a few more details. I don't know you or him, but right now you make yourself look like an ass... and somewhat for no reason.

Carry on.
Wow certified huh? :hammerhead::dizzy::confused:
is $15 a bit much? ok lets say 10! was I being wildly inaccurate? I was only giving a for instance and there is no such thing as a 2 hour job, you may bid it as such, but it never works out that way. I'm sorry you felt the need to berate me over fuel costs, mileage and so forth and 95% of us don't have a loader but the point is; I didn't attack anyone, berate anyone or put anyone down as you are doing to me.
I've gotten my feelings hurt in the past and have lashed out but you know what?

I've realized that out of 135,000 members and 515 viewers at any given time, there are only like 4 or 5 people who go out of their way to belittle me or otherwise try to put me down, and it'll only work if I let it. LMAO:laugh:
have a great day.
Agape - GREAT response - some folks are just really out there - even with a "certification"
However, if you are a legitimate business you match your workers social security,fica,etc-you pay taxes,your phone didn't ring majically, you probabally put out some advertising,paying an accountant, spending gas and time to give a quote, then uncle sam wants 35-50%-no such thing as a 3-Hour job unless it was supposed to be a 2-hour or less job -as nothing works out like you think it would, the leaves don't majically dissapear so you have dumping, and gas for dumping, and labor for dumping, as legally you can't stop employees time when they are in the truck, In fact- you have to start their time as soon as they show up-you only think you are making money "lets say I do 2 jobs....." you are most likely not doing two jobs/day, 4 days/week cause it just don't work that way...you are a scrub, you are under the table, and you have no respect from any of us who run our businesses legitimately.
I actually copied and saved this in my lawnsite file - good stuff. Lowballers are just hungry but so are drug dealers - Nail on head here - good stuff. Stay positive dude!

Agape
12-22-2010, 01:00 AM
Wow certified huh? :hammerhead::dizzy::confused:

Agape - GREAT response - some folks are just really out there - even with a "certification"

I actually copied and saved this in my lawnsite file - good stuff. Lowballers are just hungry but so are drug dealers - Nail on head here - good stuff. Stay positive dude!

Thanks bro, some people around here just don't like independent opinions

bigpappaab
12-22-2010, 02:11 AM
Agape,
I have been reading your posts for a while, and I agree with most things that you say. I like how youre not afraid to speak your mind, and you dont care who you offend. You keep me laughing, and you give me plenty to think about. Thanks dude and keep at it!

Agape
12-22-2010, 08:51 AM
Agape,
I have been reading your posts for a while, and I agree with most things that you say. I like how youre not afraid to speak your mind, and you dont care who you offend. You keep me laughing, and you give me plenty to think about. Thanks dude and keep at it!

Thanks, and my opinions are only my opinions, nothing more

FYS777
12-22-2010, 11:03 AM
The owner of a successful landscape and multi million dollar company is not dealing with $100 leaf jobs.
I'm very ok making less on a job, but where my net profit is closer to 10-20 bucks for 3 hours of work, I'd just as soon put out fliers for 3 hours in a nicer area and get better customers.
We talk against scrub lawn guys, but I think there are definitely scrub customers as well.

do what you want, my ideas are for me, I'm just sharing.

my 2 cents, if it was me i would put the fliers out, then do the lesser jobs to pay for the fuel and fliers, and maybe make a little taboot, then swap out the lesser ones as i got the better jobs.

Agape
12-25-2010, 03:51 PM
my 2 cents, if it was me i would put the fliers out, then do the lesser jobs to pay for the fuel and fliers, and maybe make a little taboot, then swap out the lesser ones as i got the better jobs.

good Idea, or have workers hand out fliers in the area while I do the job myself to pay for gas and a happy meal.

topsites
12-26-2010, 11:14 AM
Oh yeah well how about it's not my fault certain folks got a brand new truck and a whole
boatload of super nice (and expensive) equipment that they yet have to pay for!

It's not my fault that some folks just had to have it, it is not my fault that despite the fact that it's been said
over and over that new business owners should first spend 3-5 years at their current job (yes that means working
for someone else for some time to come still) while putting money aside over top of everything else...
NO TAKING A SHORTCUT DOESN'T COUNT!
Because I can just see this one going in one ear and out the other too.

So it's not my fault that instead of doing that and then going out and buying a bunch of USED equipment but paid for in cash
so at least someone isn't in DEBT, they instead went out and got everything brand spanking new on credit!
The WORST thing anyone could do, that's like violating the number ONE rule in business!
You just don't do that, but yet folks do it every day!

And it's not my fault!
lol

Oh but now the fact that perhaps I decided to give my customers a break because it's been a hard year and 2011 is promising to
be more of the same so I'm doing everything I can for them so they can AFFORD to hire me again for all of 2011 because I
need their money as bad or worse than you do, the fact that this once a year during the leaf season I decided to give them
ALL a good price, that's my fault?!

Kiss my donkey.

Agape
12-26-2010, 12:37 PM
Oh yeah well how about it's not my fault certain folks got a brand new truck and a whole
boatload of super nice (and expensive) equipment that they yet have to pay for!

It's not my fault that some folks just had to have it, it is not my fault that despite the fact that it's been said
over and over that new business owners should first spend 3-5 years at their current job (yes that means working
for someone else for some time to come still) while putting money aside over top of everything else...
NO TAKING A SHORTCUT DOESN'T COUNT!
Because I can just see this one going in one ear and out the other too.

So it's not my fault that instead of doing that and then going out and buying a bunch of USED equipment but paid for in cash
so at least someone isn't in DEBT, they instead went out and got everything brand spanking new on credit!
The WORST thing anyone could do, that's like violating the number ONE rule in business!
You just don't do that, but yet folks do it every day!

And it's not my fault!
lol

Oh but now the fact that perhaps I decided to give my customers a break because it's been a hard year and 2011 is promising to
be more of the same so I'm doing everything I can for them so they can AFFORD to hire me again for all of 2011 because I
need their money as bad or worse than you do, the fact that this once a year during the leaf season I decided to give them
ALL a good price, that's my fault?!

Kiss my donkey.

who are you responding to? I buy used when I can, exept for trimmers/edgers, blowers and other "small items" and I may buy 2 new HRC's cause I hate having to coordinate cutting heights between 2 different brands, but I'm looking this week at a ferris 36" hydro cause I got money saved up.
The point is, I would never give my customers a discount (ok if you do) for bad economy, its bad for me too. assuming we're talking about maint. you can't give them enough of a discount to offset their finances enough to make a diff. on wether or not they will keep you-so they drop you, and NOW every one else Is paying you less too.

Is your donkey nice?

gasracer
12-30-2010, 08:17 AM
who are you responding to? I buy used when I can, exept for trimmers/edgers, blowers and other "small items" and I may buy 2 new HRC's cause I hate having to coordinate cutting heights between 2 different brands, but I'm looking this week at a ferris 36" hydro cause I got money saved up.
The point is, I would never give my customers a discount (ok if you do) for bad economy, its bad for me too. assuming we're talking about maint. you can't give them enough of a discount to offset their finances enough to make a diff. on wether or not they will keep you-so they drop you, and NOW every one else Is paying you less too.

Is your donkey nice?
I am looking at a new 36"hydro for next Spring.I have a 48"DD Ferris and love it. I also looked at a Toro and one of the "new" John Deers.

The YardSlayer
02-26-2011, 06:47 PM
Now that is a very smart business statement.

mmcda18
03-02-2011, 09:01 PM
Topsites. You say it's stupid to finance new equipment because you have monthly notes and therefore that reflects your billing clients higher to compensate that monthly cost. I do agree that some people have to have the biggest and best and newest equipment each year it comes out. However there are a small group of people (myself included) who don't really see the point of buying used equipment.
I have bought used equipment in the past and EVERY time i did, i always ended up paying more fixing stuff and losing income while things got repaired than i did on monthly notes.
If i buy a new mower for 14,000 and finance it for 60 months at 3.7% (scag turf tiger financing option) my monthly note would be about 250 dollars give or take a couple dollars. Then i get a 2 or 3 year warranty with it. My scag dealership will give me a demo mower to use while mine is being repaired if ANYTHING has to be replaced on my mower for the first 3 years of ownership. (I realize that is a lawn shop offer and not scag offer).
Now if i buy a used mower and lets just say i pay cash so it's paid for. If something breaks that i personally cannot fix i have to leave it in the shop while they fix it. Now personally my lawn company is small so i make about 1400 a week (i only work 3 days a week). My dealership ALWAYS takes about 3-10 days to get mowers back for commercial companies depending on parts. So now if it only takes 3 to fix i just lost 1400 plus the cost of the repair. lets just say it is a simple fix of 200 dollars. I"m out 1600 bucks in one week. That 250 dollars i pay each month would have stretched over 6.4 months of financing. I get a brand new mower which is less likely to break on me, and i get a 3 year guarantee that i will never lose a day of mowing due to having a repair cost.
I realize larger companies have more mowers so they hardly ever have down time if one mower breaks. But guys like me who only have one mower and a small client base of 55 clients need the benefits that financing offers us.

It really makes it seem that you think having zero dollars in financing each month means you can charge less. I disagree. Why would i lower my price because i personally have no debt obligations. What happens when the used equipment you suggested people pay cash for breaks to the point of no repair. Then because you have charged your clients way less than normal companies you have to finance new equipment yourself. You cannot tell me that by charging less because things are paid in full you can adequately prepare for rainy days or replacing unrepairable equipment. I realize bigger companies can do this because usually the revenue they bring in monthly could most likely pay cash for equipment anyway. But for smaller companies this is illogical.
I may have missed completely what you were trying to portray but this is how i took it. No disrespect so don't rip me a new *******. Thanks :)

32vld
03-02-2011, 09:50 PM
Topsites. You say it's stupid to finance new equipment because you have monthly notes and therefore that reflects your billing clients higher to compensate that monthly cost. (myself included) who don't really see the point of buying used equipment.
I have bought used equipment in the past and EVERY time i did, i always ended up paying more fixing stuff and losing income while things got repaired than i did on monthly notes.
If i buy a new mower for 14,000 and finance it for 60 months at 3.7% (scag turf tiger financing option) my monthly note would be about 250 dollars give or take a couple dollars. Then i get a 2 or 3 year warranty with it.

You can pay cash for new. Just save your money up as other people do.

mmcda18
03-02-2011, 10:21 PM
You can pay cash for new. Just save your money up as other people do.

I completely agree that if you can pay cash for something that is the way to go. But in my opinion and based on MY experience and MY experience alone. I will not buy used equipment unless it is coming with a really good warranty. Just because it has never worked out for me. I'm sure some people have bought used and never had problems and everything worked out great. But me personally, i've always lost more money than it was worth to just finance new equipment. And me specifically, i've been in school the past 4 or 5 years so this is really the second year i've been promoting my business to try and grow. So basically with me blowing all my money on school, house, and truck payments i'm personally not able to save money. So financing has always been my only option. So different strokes for different folks certainly applies here.

Agape
03-02-2011, 10:38 PM
Yes, if you aren't mechanically savvy, stay away from used.